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I'm watching the past seasons starting with S1 on Hulu. Some observations:

I'd forgotten how charismatic Lisa and Ken were. They were these hilarious mod party kids done good. I love that they'd have brunch in their gorgeous English garden complete with Wedgewood China and drop hints about their swinging London youth.

Also forgotten how nuts Camille was at first. Speaking of which: what does everyone think of the whole "but you said no one would be interested in me with out Kelsey" throw down between her and Kyle? At first I thought Camille made the whole thing up because it was such a crazy thing for anyone to say and made very little sense in the conversation. Then 1 or 2 episodes later I started to think Kyle said something she was embarrassed about, but not exactly what Camille accused her of. Now 5 years later, I just don't know. It's such a nutso thing to say and makes no sense as a part of conversation and Canille was projecting all over the place about the death of her marriage. On the other hand, I feel like this has happened to Kyle every damn season. There's always something she swears she never said and love her or hate her, Kyle is not exactly famous for owning up to her part of drama. My best guess is she's one of those people who isn't actually funny, but thinks she is so she makes jokes that come across as mean to other people, but she forgets about it because to her it was just funny banter.

Thought?

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I'm watching the past seasons starting with S1 on Hulu. Some observations:

I'd forgotten how charismatic Lisa and Ken were. They were these hilarious mod party kids done good. I love that they'd have brunch in their gorgeous English garden complete with Wedgewood China and drop hints about their swinging London youth.

Also forgotten how nuts Camille was at first. Speaking of which: what does everyone think of the whole "but you said no one would be interested in me with out Kelsey" throw down between her and Kyle? At first I thought Camille made the whole thing up because it was such a crazy thing for anyone to say and made very little sense in the conversation. Then 1 or 2 episodes later I started to think Kyle said something she was embarrassed about, but not exactly what Camille accused her of. Now 5 years later, I just don't know. It's such a nutso thing to say and makes no sense as a part of conversation and Canille was projecting all over the place about the death of her marriage. On the other hand, I feel like this has happened to Kyle every damn season. There's always something she swears she never said and love her or hate her, Kyle is not exactly famous for owning up to her part of drama. My best guess is she's one of those people who isn't actually funny, but thinks she is so she makes jokes that come across as mean to other people, but she forgets about it because to her it was just funny banter.

Thought?

I haven't seen Season One probably since it was originally one...but what was Taylor's role in the issue?  Her beef with Kim was her being accused of stirring the pot with Camille, which Lisa also suspected something happened between Taylor and Camille?  

 

Taylor was never my favorite...but I'll love her a tad for "I'll take you out back and go Oklahoma on your ass..."

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Taylor definitely stirred the pot with Camille and told her they were talking about her in the airport. Lisa was on to Taylor's interference early on.

 

IMO Kyle did say something about them filming Camille in Hawaii - probably along the lines of, "Why are they filming only her, no other HW's, Kelsey's not even there."  And the producers did their sneaky little work and told Camille.  It's all about camera time with Kyle - she got it early on and realized that getting a camera crew to follow one HW to Hawaii was a big deal.  Camille didn't parrot Kyle's exact words, so Kyle had deniability.

 

Someone made a good point in the Lisa thread, before season 1 even aired and Lisa became a fan favorite, Kyle was pulling little games with Taylor - holding hands and saying "Are you jelly." She already had a competition going on with Lisa before this show even aired.  

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Perhaps someone should have sat Kyle down during that period and told her that the show was called Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, not Kyle Richards of Beverly Hills.  It sounds like she had never seen the show before because in the early version of the other franchises, they filmed the housewives by themselves and even when they went on vacation on their own.

 

With that said, season 1 seemed to have been filmed more along the line of the older version of the franchise.  If you go to the web exclusive in Hulu for season 1.. there was a lot of Kim scenes that didn't make the cut.  One was her hosting an end of school year party for her daughter Kimberly (proving that she always threw one for her daughter every year) that none of the other housewives attended plus scenes of her with one of her daughters coming up with a concept for water bottles for cancer research.  She seemed pretty lucid in those scenes... well for Kim anyways LOL

 

I do recall a lot of Camille scenes that didn't include the other housewives... a lot of them in Hawaii having a huge party with her friends, plus her going to the Tony's with Kelsey and hanging out with her friends.  It made sense that Camille had her own stuff since she didn't know many of the other housewives pre-show.. same with Kim.

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I'm watching the past seasons starting with S1 on Hulu. Some observations:

I'd forgotten how charismatic Lisa and Ken were. They were these hilarious mod party kids done good. I love that they'd have brunch in their gorgeous English garden complete with Wedgewood China and drop hints about their swinging London youth.

Also forgotten how nuts Camille was at first. Speaking of which: what does everyone think of the whole "but you said no one would be interested in me with out Kelsey" throw down between her and Kyle? At first I thought Camille made the whole thing up because it was such a crazy thing for anyone to say and made very little sense in the conversation. Then 1 or 2 episodes later I started to think Kyle said something she was embarrassed about, but not exactly what Camille accused her of. Now 5 years later, I just don't know. It's such a nutso thing to say and makes no sense as a part of conversation and Canille was projecting all over the place about the death of her marriage. On the other hand, I feel like this has happened to Kyle every damn season. There's always something she swears she never said and love her or hate her, Kyle is not exactly famous for owning up to her part of drama. My best guess is she's one of those people who isn't actually funny, but thinks she is so she makes jokes that come across as mean to other people, but she forgets about it because to her it was just funny banter.

Thought?

I don't recall Kyle often being in the situation of having to deny saying something she didn't say. I remember her being involved in similar situations like accusing Yo saying something about Lisa off camera, which we know that Yo did, as Yo said she gave Lisa a heads up before the reunion that she did say something (making it much worse for Lisa to take Yo's side over Kyle's when she knew the truth).

Regarding thoughts on what happened with the Camille deal, I agree that something off hand was probably said and production ramped it all up. It just makes no sense to me that it happened in exactly the manner that Camille accused. Kyle is the one who recommended Camille for the show. Andy has said that Camille was reluctant and that he and Kyle convinced her to join. She said right from the beginning that Kelsey wanted no real part in the show. Knowing that Camille would be on the show minus Kelsey, why would Kyle be surprised that they would film Camille without him? How did she think Camille would have any role in the show at all? It just never made any sense to me. Kyle pointed this out at the reunion and Camille seemed to have no answer to this question. I also go back to something that Lisa said about Kyle when they were friends. She said that Kyle was a lot of things and had a lot of faults, but that she had never known her to lie about anything.

I have always thought that Camille took something that was said and projected her own feelings into the situation. I think she came on the show because she wanted to be seen as something other than Kelsey's wife, which is how the felt like she was perceived. Whatever innocuous comment that was made played into her vulnerabilities in a big way.

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From the Brandi thread, discussing the Polo Lounge:  Is it throwing Camille under the bus when Camille admits to the truth of it?  This reminds me of the OC when Vicki knew that Tamra had told her that Terry had said "Take the Beadors down" and let Shannon flap in the wind.  If Camille hadn't been called out on it by Brandi, Camille would have let Adrienne continue to lie about it.

 

There was a plan that season "To Take Lisa Down."  It was clumsy and ham handed. Typical for these women.  Started with Taylor getting some award (probably for domestic violence - the irony there) and Lisa wasn't invited - just in time to have a phone call with Kyle to clue Lisa in to her exclusion.  Taylor meeting Kyle in the dress shop all nervous that she just ran into Cedric? and would Lisa be mad?!  And then the "preys on the weak" comment during Kyle/Taylor sleepover.  Then the Tea Party where Taylor was all geared up for the showdown. Taylor openly admitted to Paul that things weren't happening the way she thought when she met him on the driveway.  Only Lisa flipped the script, tried to out Camille for something which ended up in her revealing all of Taylor's abuse and then fabulously doing her amazing stomp catwalk out of the room and resulting in Lisa becoming Taylor's champion.  Adrienne getting her little Jackpot.  It's not so far-fetched to think that Adrienne had a meeting planned at the Polo Lounge.  

 

ETA - I would still love to know what they cut out of that scene - Camille went from 0-100 and dropping dirt right and left and then did her glorious exit.  

Edited by jinjer
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Much as I think Taylor is a grifter, I totally thought she was telling the truth about the S2 "take Lisa down" cabal and that Camille was the one lying about it during the reunion.

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From the Brandi thread, discussing the Polo Lounge:  Is it throwing Camille under the bus when Camille admits to the truth of it?  This reminds me of the OC when Vicki knew that Tamra had told her that Terry had said "Take the Beadors down" and let Shannon flap in the wind.  If Camille hadn't been called out on it by Brandi, Camille would have let Adrienne continue to lie about it.

 

There was a plan that season "To Take Lisa Down."  It was clumsy and ham handed. Typical for these women.  Started with Taylor getting some award (probably for domestic violence - the irony there) and Lisa wasn't invited - just in time to have a phone call with Kyle to clue Lisa in to her exclusion.  Taylor meeting Kyle in the dress shop all nervous that she just ran into Cedric? and would Lisa be mad?!  And then the "preys on the weak" comment during Kyle/Taylor sleepover.  Then the Tea Party where Taylor was all geared up for the showdown. Taylor openly admitted to Paul that things weren't happening the way she thought when she met him on the driveway.  Only Lisa flipped the script, tried to out Camille for something which ended up in her revealing all of Taylor's abuse and then fabulously doing her amazing stomp catwalk out of the room and resulting in Lisa becoming Taylor's champion.  Adrienne getting her little Jackpot.  It's not so far-fetched to think that Adrienne had a meeting planned at the Polo Lounge.  

Here is what has never made any sense to me-we have Brandi and only Brandi claiming that a business associate of Adrienne's suggested the meeting.  Since there was no meeting why are we suppose to believe that the non-existent meeting as a "take Lisa down meeting"?  Brandi exaggerates so damn much and was so intent on ingratiating herself into Lisa and Ken's lives, I think it was entirely possible the meeting could have just been a pre-Reunion meeting.  Camille was in Hawaii, Kyle declined the invitation, so that left Brandi and Adrienne and Adrienne wasn't directly in touch with Brandi.

 

What she did to Camille was wrong because Camille simply having knowledge of a meeting did not make her complicit.  Again Brandi at the dinner in Las Vegas did everything she could to disparage Adrienne and her family's financial holdings. 

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From the Brandi thread, discussing the Polo Lounge:  Is it throwing Camille under the bus when Camille admits to the truth of it?  This reminds me of the OC when Vicki knew that Tamra had told her that Terry had said "Take the Beadors down" and let Shannon flap in the wind.  If Camille hadn't been called out on it by Brandi, Camille would have let Adrienne continue to lie about it.

 

IMO it is if Camille wants to stay out of it, and she clearly did.

The only thing that Camille confirmed is that Brandi called her when she was in Hawaii to ask for advice about some things that Adrienne wanted her to say about Lisa. Camille said she didn't know about the actual conversation, just that Brandi said it happened.

By S3 Camille and Adrienne were much closer. Adrienne had backed up Camille over the issues with Taylor and defended her intensely. It was obvious that Camille wanted to stay neutral and the fact that Brandi didn't care what her friend wanted is pretty much per usual.

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Oh my god! Oh my god! Cedric's childhood story! So Les Miserables! So good! Parisian prostitutes and cat food, you all! French fucking hookers and eating cat food on the mean streets of Paris! I never get tired of that story.

Man, season one can bring the comedy.

Edited by FozzyBear
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Watched episode 3 of season 1 where everyone sent to Las Vegas to see JAY Z...yeah there were some catty remarks made (Kyle/Lisa) but they are looked like they were having fun..no blow ups or wine trowing lol

Brandi coming in is when it started changing.IMHO

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From the Lisa thread:
 

No one vilified Camille for calling out Mauricio, no one vilified Mauricio for outing himself either but OMG!!!! How dare Lisa! lol I really think Kyle turned against Lisa because Lisa became a fan favorite for doing very little in the beginning, she just allowed the others, including Kyle, to show their true colors to the viewers.

 
Wasn't the larger issue that Camille and Kyle were already beefing because Camille perceived a slight where the likely was none? Camille was being horrible, so including the text that she sent to Kyle about letting Mauricio go as their realtor was just another shitty Camille thing to do Like, Camille came out of season one as "Most Hated Housewife" (I forget which magazine labeled her, Perhaps People?) so I'm not certain how it can be determined that no one villified Camille. I think adding what she did about Mauricio--not just the "firing" but saying something to e-cigarette about how he supposedly loves the nannies--is precisely why Camille was villified.

 

It wasn't either/or with Camille and Lisa. Camille was severely villified. Lisa has yet to see the levels of disgust that Camille saw. 

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From the Lisa thread:

 

 

Wasn't the larger issue that Camille and Kyle were already beefing because Camille perceived a slight where the likely was none? Camille was being horrible, so including the text that she sent to Kyle about letting Mauricio go as their realtor was just another shitty Camille thing to do Like, Camille came out of season one as "Most Hated Housewife" (I forget which magazine labeled her, Perhaps People?) so I'm not certain how it can be determined that no one villified Camille. I think adding what she did about Mauricio--not just the "firing" but saying something to e-cigarette about how he supposedly loves the nannies--is precisely why Camille was villified.

 

It wasn't either/or with Camille and Lisa. Camille was severely villified. Lisa has yet to see the levels of disgust that Camille saw. 

I meant that none of the other HW's vilified Camille! LOL She received viewer scorn but not scorn from Taylor, Kim, Lisa or Adrienne for the RE comment or for Dubois(sp) nannie comment. Heck, she didn't even get scorned by Kyle or Mauricio for that matter. When the following season began, all was forgiven between Camille and Kyle, Kyle did not bring any of that back up again at all, it was as if it never happened , yet 1 of the first things we hear from Kyle is about what Lisa said/did last season. LOL  And this time she wants to talk it out but when Lisa wanted to talk about the "Bobby Fisher" comment, Kyle did just like Lisa did this season, "Its done and over with, lets just move on" bit! LOL Lisa flipped the script on Kyle this season and Kyle did not like it at all.

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I meant that none of the other HW's vilified Camille! LOL She received viewer scorn but not scorn from Taylor, Kim, Lisa or Adrienne for the RE comment or for Dubois(sp) nannie comment. Heck, she didn't even get scorned by Kyle or Mauricio for that matter. When the following season began, all was forgiven between Camille and Kyle, Kyle did not bring any of that back up again at all, it was as if it never happened , yet 1 of the first things we hear from Kyle is about what Lisa said/did last season. LOL  And this time she wants to talk it out but when Lisa wanted to talk about the "Bobby Fisher" comment, Kyle did just like Lisa did this season, "Its done and over with, lets just move on" bit! LOL Lisa flipped the script on Kyle this season and Kyle did not like it at all.

I think the difference is that Camille took complete ownership. She made those comments in her TH interviews, so none of the ladies knew what she had said until they saw the show. On the same night it aired, Camille took the unusual step of apologizing all over the place.  Kyle was on WWHL that night and Camille called in to publicly apologize to both Kyle and Mauricio. She apologized on Twitter, she apologized in her blog. She didn't sit around and wait to hear what the public thought - she just owned that she had said the wrong thing. She didn't pretend it wasn't a terrible thing to say. 

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I think the difference is that Camille took complete ownership. She made those comments in her TH interviews, so none of the ladies knew what she had said until they saw the show. On the same night it aired, Camille took the unusual step of apologizing all over the place.  Kyle was on WWHL that night and Camille called in to publicly apologize to both Kyle and Mauricio. She apologized on Twitter, she apologized in her blog. She didn't sit around and wait to hear what the public thought - she just owned that she had said the wrong thing. She didn't pretend it wasn't a terrible thing to say. 

 Weren't her apologies along the lines of "that is how I felt at the time but now I feel differently", like almost all of Kyle's apologizes?  She did not apologize for everything and she was also getting slammed by viewers, so much so that she reinvented herself season 2.  LOL

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I think the difference is that Camille took complete ownership. She made those comments in her TH interviews, so none of the ladies knew what she had said until they saw the show. On the same night it aired, Camille took the unusual step of apologizing all over the place.  Kyle was on WWHL that night and Camille called in to publicly apologize to both Kyle and Mauricio. She apologized on Twitter, she apologized in her blog. She didn't sit around and wait to hear what the public thought - she just owned that she had said the wrong thing. She didn't pretend it wasn't a terrible thing to say. 

Camille has apologized again about what she said about Mauricio.  I think what made the apologies work is Kyle uses their disagreement as a way to show that people can move forward from a disagreement.  I think it helped that Camille distanced herself from crazy Allison Dubois. 

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 Weren't her apologies along the lines of "that is how I felt at the time but now I feel differently", like almost all of Kyle's apologizes?  She did not apologize for everything and she was also getting slammed by viewers, so much so that she reinvented herself season 2.  LOL

Nope.  She apologized in her blog that went up the same night the show aired.  No doubt folks would have been hysterical, but she wouldn't have seen any reaction at the time the blog went up.  This was the apology from her blog:

 

"At this time I want to apologize to Kyle [Richards] and her husband Mauricio. We have worked with Mauricio for several years, and I think he is a lovely person. I must apologize for my comments because I believe they really have a great marriage, and he does love his wife. It was the end of a very volatile day with emotions raging and tempers flaring. I reacted out of frustration, and made statements that should not have been said. I sincerely apologize to Kyle and Mauricio for my statements and truly don’t believe what was said".

 

Kyle was the guest on WWHL that same night. Camille called in and Andy put her on the air and she said pretty much the same thing.  

 

No doubt about it, Camille was getting hammered away at for lots of things. She still did the right thing and took ownership as soon as that particular show aired. Since most folks don't read the blogs or watch WWHL, lots of people had no idea that Camille seemed truly sorry until they saw her back on S2, when to your point she had reinvented herself.  

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I meant that none of the other HW's vilified Camille! LOL She received viewer scorn but not scorn from Taylor, Kim, Lisa or Adrienne for the RE comment or for Dubois(sp) nannie comment. Heck, she didn't even get scorned by Kyle or Mauricio for that matter. When the following season began, all was forgiven between Camille and Kyle, Kyle did not bring any of that back up again at all, it was as if it never happened , yet 1 of the first things we hear from Kyle is about what Lisa said/did last season. LOL  And this time she wants to talk it out but when Lisa wanted to talk about the "Bobby Fisher" comment, Kyle did just like Lisa did this season, "Its done and over with, lets just move on" bit! LOL Lisa flipped the script on Kyle this season and Kyle did not like it at all.

 

My bad. I thought you were talking about viewer reaction to Camille versus Lisa. 

 

But to continue the conversation, my estimation about why the HWs were able to move forward with Camille versus Lisa is that perhaps the other women experienced the two faces of Lisa? As Marisa Zanuck mentioned in an interview before season three started airing, Lisa is different when the cameras are rolling. I really think that annoys people.

 

For bad or worse, Brandi is a mess when the cameras aren't rolling as well as when they're rolling (actually, we can add Taylor and Kim to this, too). Kyle doesn't strike me as someone who's one way while the cameras are on versus when they aren't, either. I think she can be catty, which we've seen on camera. Though I've liked Kyle since season one, I'm not under any illusions that she's not gossipy during the off seasons. Yolanda strikes me as the kind of person who's likely just as snobbish with a dash of new age-y-isms that she shares on camera. Lisa, on the other hand, is so dependent on being seen as the "classy" (ugh! I can't stand that word!), "witty," elegant" Brit that she cranks it up on camera with the women she films, but when she sees them at some other social events (where Bravo cameras, or paparazzi cameras, for that matter, are not present), she acts like she doesn't know them. 

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My bad. I thought you were talking about viewer reaction to Camille versus Lisa. 

 

But to continue the conversation, my estimation about why the HWs were able to move forward with Camille versus Lisa is that perhaps the other women experienced the two faces of Lisa? As Marisa Zanuck mentioned in an interview before season three started airing, Lisa is different when the cameras are rolling. I really think that annoys people.

 

For bad or worse, Brandi is a mess when the cameras aren't rolling as well as when they're rolling (actually, we can add Taylor and Kim to this, too). Kyle doesn't strike me as someone who's one way while the cameras are on versus when they aren't, either. I think she can be catty, which we've seen on camera. Though I've liked Kyle since season one, I'm not under any illusions that she's not gossipy during the off seasons. Yolanda strikes me as the kind of person who's likely just as snobbish with a dash of new age-y-isms that she shares on camera. Lisa, on the other hand, is so dependent on being seen as the "classy" (ugh! I can't stand that word!), "witty," elegant" Brit that she cranks it up on camera with the women she films, but when she sees them at some other social events (where Bravo cameras, or paparazzi cameras, for that matter, are not present), she acts like she doesn't know them. 

I think the ladies were able to move forward with Camille because they thought that she had been through enough with the audience.  She was after all named the most hated HW in the franchise. Additionally, she never had any real issues with anyone except Kyle. Despite the protests from Lisa at the S2 reunion that Kyle didn't defend her, Lisa never really defended Kyle against Camille. On more than one occasion she just sat there and listened to Camille tear into Kyle and she didn't say so much as "boo" about it. Kyle seemed more than able to defend herself, so I don't think it was a big deal to her, but as we know Lisa wouldn't put up with that for one minute.  Bottom line, the ladies had no real issue with moving forward with Camille since the only person she had really bothered too much was Kyle. 

 

Regarding Marisa Zanuck, I think the thing that was the most surprising about this was that Lisa claimed to be good friends with the senior Zanuck's.  She said they had been good friends for years. Despite this Marisa did interview that Lisa was very different off screen. She said that her personality changed as soon as the cameras began rolling and that she was the only one of the girls that had not been welcoming to her when she joined the show.  I can see other people rolling their eyes at anything Marisa would say because of the way she talked about her husband, which was deplorable. At the same time, it showed that she isn't afraid to say what she thinks. 

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Nope.  She apologized in her blog that went up the same night the show aired.  No doubt folks would have been hysterical, but she wouldn't have seen any reaction at the time the blog went up.  This was the apology from her blog:

 

"At this time I want to apologize to Kyle [Richards] and her husband Mauricio. We have worked with Mauricio for several years, and I think he is a lovely person. I must apologize for my comments because I believe they really have a great marriage, and he does love his wife. It was the end of a very volatile day with emotions raging and tempers flaring. I reacted out of frustration, and made statements that should not have been said. I sincerely apologize to Kyle and Mauricio for my statements and truly don’t believe what was said".

 

Kyle was the guest on WWHL that same night. Camille called in and Andy put her on the air and she said pretty much the same thing.  

 

No doubt about it, Camille was getting hammered away at for lots of things. She still did the right thing and took ownership as soon as that particular show aired. Since most folks don't read the blogs or watch WWHL, lots of people had no idea that Camille seemed truly sorry until they saw her back on S2, when to your point she had reinvented herself.  

That was a very nice blog about the comments she made about their marriage. What about the RE comments she made to Kyle and did any of her blogs include anything about her then friend, Dubois, cheating comment?

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My bad. I thought you were talking about viewer reaction to Camille versus Lisa. 

 

But to continue the conversation, my estimation about why the HWs were able to move forward with Camille versus Lisa is that perhaps the other women experienced the two faces of Lisa? As Marisa Zanuck mentioned in an interview before season three started airing, Lisa is different when the cameras are rolling. I really think that annoys people.

 

For bad or worse, Brandi is a mess when the cameras aren't rolling as well as when they're rolling (actually, we can add Taylor and Kim to this, too). Kyle doesn't strike me as someone who's one way while the cameras are on versus when they aren't, either. I think she can be catty, which we've seen on camera. Though I've liked Kyle since season one, I'm not under any illusions that she's not gossipy during the off seasons. Yolanda strikes me as the kind of person who's likely just as snobbish with a dash of new age-y-isms that she shares on camera. Lisa, on the other hand, is so dependent on being seen as the "classy" (ugh! I can't stand that word!), "witty," elegant" Brit that she cranks it up on camera with the women she films, but when she sees them at some other social events (where Bravo cameras, or paparazzi cameras, for that matter, are not present), she acts like she doesn't know them. 

I agree that Lisa is very "aware" of her public image. She was the only HW that had a business when this show started and image is important for a business person. Lisa's business is dependent on the publics perception of her and I can not fault her this, she caters to the average person, not to the 1 % population like Mauricio is.

 

 

I think the ladies were able to move forward with Camille because they thought that she had been through enough with the audience.  She was after all named the most hated HW in the franchise. Additionally, she never had any real issues with anyone except Kyle. Despite the protests from Lisa at the S2 reunion that Kyle didn't defend her, Lisa never really defended Kyle against Camille. On more than one occasion she just sat there and listened to Camille tear into Kyle and she didn't say so much as "boo" about it. Kyle seemed more than able to defend herself, so I don't think it was a big deal to her, but as we know Lisa wouldn't put up with that for one minute.  Bottom line, the ladies had no real issue with moving forward with Camille since the only person she had really bothered too much was Kyle. 

 

Regarding Marisa Zanuck, I think the thing that was the most surprising about this was that Lisa claimed to be good friends with the senior Zanuck's.  She said they had been good friends for years. Despite this Marisa did interview that Lisa was very different off screen. She said that her personality changed as soon as the cameras began rolling and that she was the only one of the girls that had not been welcoming to her when she joined the show.  I can see other people rolling their eyes at anything Marisa would say because of the way she talked about her husband, which was deplorable. At the same time, it showed that she isn't afraid to say what she thinks. 

Marisa is in the business world as well but is better able to set her own work hours whereas Lisa's work hours are mandated by the then 2, now 3, different restaurants hours of operation. I am sure that she needs to check in during the lunch hours and then again during the peak dinner hours. Add to that she was filming VPR and BH HW as well which would further cut back on times she would be available to "visit/welcome" a cast member. Owning/operating a restaurant is very different than other businesses, they tend to consume your life and you have very, very little time for private time.

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That was a very nice blog about the comments she made about their marriage. What about the RE comments she made to Kyle and did any of her blogs include anything about her then friend, Dubois, cheating comment?

The apology was about the cheating comment.

I agree that Lisa is very "aware" of her public image. She was the only HW that had a business when this show started and image is important for a business person. Lisa's business is dependent on the publics perception of her and I can not fault her this, she caters to the average person, not to the 1 % population like Mauricio is.

 

 

Marisa is in the business world as well but is better able to set her own work hours whereas Lisa's work hours are mandated by the then 2, now 3, different restaurants hours of operation. I am sure that she needs to check in during the lunch hours and then again during the peak dinner hours. Add to that she was filming VPR and BH HW as well which would further cut back on times she would be available to "visit/welcome" a cast member. Owning/operating a restaurant is very different than other businesses, they tend to consume your life and you have very, very little time for private time.

I know she is busy. Like Vicki and Ramona she likes to remind everyone that she is very busy. I never got the impression that Marisa was faulting her for not calling to arrange play dates. She was just talking about being nice when they were filming. I'm my experience it is just as easy to be nice to someone as it is to be rude.

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She was after all named the most hated HW in the franchise. Additionally, she never had any real issues with anyone except Kyle. Despite the protests from Lisa at the S2 reunion that Kyle didn't defend her, Lisa never really defended Kyle against Camille.

I remember Lisa defending Kyle at the reunion. Camille was trying to call Kyle a bully both to her and to Kim and Lisa jumped right in to defend her. 

 

ETA: As for Camille's apologies, yes she apologized the night the episode aired, but she came to reunion completely ready to deflect. She blamed all of the stuff at the dinner party from hell on Bravo's editing and Andy took offense at that. Which is why I suspect that they aired the entire dinner during the lost footage episodes after the reunion. So, Camille's apologies never came across as sincere to me. It was part of her PR makeover whereby she was suffering from dealing with her ass of a husband and Kyle was being a bully and she was just reacting and getting a poor edit. But, Lisa defended Kyle during that in her blogs and at the reunion.

Edited by MatildaMoody
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I know she is busy. Like Vicki and Ramona she likes to remind everyone that she is very busy. I never got the impression that Marisa was faulting her for not calling to arrange play dates. She was just talking about being nice when they were filming. I'm my experience it is just as easy to be nice to someone as it is to be rude.

 

Yeah, I also think Marisa Zanuck's issue with Lisa had more to do with Lisa ignoring her when they'd run into each other at non-HW functions in real life, as opposed to a Yolanda/"you didn't come to my painting party" complaint.

 

And honestly, I've heard this a lot about Lisa, that the minute the camera stops rolling, she is dismissive and doesn't acknowledge people. She seems to be the only HW who has chronic reports of being that way. All the others seem more or less the same once the cameras stop rolling, whereas Lisa seems very much about playing a part on the show vs. her actions in real life.

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That was a very nice blog about the comments she made about their marriage. What about the RE comments she made to Kyle and did any of her blogs include anything about her then friend, Dubois, cheating comment?

Camille joked later after the whole Kelsey thing that Dubois probably just crossed her circuits and read Camille. It was actually a pretty clever evasive move by Camille. I've gotta give her credit; she hired a top notch PR firm, listened and ate some crow which is rarely seen in the reality world.

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Lisa did defend Kyle during season 1. I just watched the third episode where Camille was talking about what Kyle saying who would care about her without Kelsey around...and Lisa kept saying she must have misunderstood..that Kyle would never say such a thing.

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I agree that Lisa is very "aware" of her public image. She was the only HW that had a business when this show started and image is important for a business person. Lisa's business is dependent on the publics perception of her and I can not fault her this, she caters to the average person, not to the 1 % population like Mauricio is.

Marisa is in the business world as well but is better able to set her own work hours whereas Lisa's work hours are mandated by the then 2, now 3, different restaurants hours of operation. I am sure that she needs to check in during the lunch hours and then again during the peak dinner hours. Add to that she was filming VPR and BH HW as well which would further cut back on times she would be available to "visit/welcome" a cast member. Owning/operating a restaurant is very different than other businesses, they tend to consume your life and you have very, very little time for private time.

Lisa is not the only BH HW who was a business person when the show started, Adrienne and Taylor worked too. I know people are dubious about anything associated with Taylor, but my recollection is that Taylor's intended storyline was her and Dwight being in business together, but it seems like once the producers got a whiff of what a mess her personal life was, the rest was history. One of the show's honchos said that they had done quite a bit of filming of Taylor working but it never aired because the footage was not that interesting or understandable by the layperson.

Lisa herself has said that she is not the day to day manager of her restaurants and that she specifically chose to partner with the couple who runs SUR in order to not have typical restaurant management responsibilities of long, inflexible hours.

I think that how you describe Marisa applies to the kind of business people Lisa, Adrienne and Taylor were when they started on the show. None of them were were working long, hard, inflexible schedules for extended periods of time. They may have taken on a project that was demanding for its duration, but it seemed to be they had a lot of flexibility and elasticity. For example, Lisa may decide to spearhead the opening or revamp of a restaurant, but once that was over, she could take time off to travel, plan her daughter's wedding, film a reality show and whatnot.

Regarding image, with Lisa it may be a chicken and egg thing. Is she image conscious because she's in business, or has she always been a person who created or modified her image which has helped her succeed in business (and other things).

 

And honestly, I've heard this a lot about Lisa, that the minute the camera stops rolling, she is dismissive and doesn't acknowledge people. She seems to be the only HW who has chronic reports of being that way. All the others seem more or less the same once the cameras stop rolling, whereas Lisa seems very much about playing a part on the show vs. her actions in real life.

I can vouch that I've also seen accounts of people meeting Lisa, and even being excited to meet her, and it was not a good experience. Not that she was a raving lunatic or anything, but they went in wanting / expecting something positive and it was not. Edited by quinn
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Lisa is not the only BH HW who was a business person when the show started, Adrienne and Taylor worked too. I know people are dubious about anything associated with Taylor, but my recollection is that Taylor's intended storyline was her and Dwight being in business together, but it seems like once the producers got a whiff of what a mess her personal life was, the rest was history. One of the show's honchos said that they had done quite a bit of filming of Taylor working but it never aired because the footage was not that interesting or understandable by the layperson.

Lisa herself has said that she is not the day to day manager of her restaurants and that she specifically chose to partner with the couple who runs SUR in order to not have typical restaurant management responsibilities of long, inflexible hours.

I think that how you describe Marisa applies to the kind of business people Lisa, Adrienne and Taylor were when they started on the show. None of them were were working long, hard, inflexible schedules for extended periods of time. They may have taken on a project that was demanding for its duration, but it seemed to be they had a lot of flexibility and elasticity. For example, Lisa may decide to spearhead the opening or revamp of a restaurant, but once that was over, she could take time off to travel, plan her daughter's wedding, film a reality show and whatnot.

Regarding image, with Lisa it may be a chicken and egg thing. Is she image conscious because she's in business, or has she always been a person who created or modified her image which has helped her succeed in business (and other things).

 

I can vouch that I've also seen accounts of people meeting Lisa, and even being excited to meet her, and it was not a good experience. Not that she was a raving lunatic or anything, but they went in wanting / expecting something positive and it was not.

I think Lisa has always been aware of her "public" image, just my gut opinion here though.

 

I have read both negative and positive comments about viewers meeting Lisa, by far more positive than negative . Of course, these comments could be predicated on how the person felt about Lisa before meeting her and/or what their expectations were to begin with. I think some viewers/fans expect the HW, whoever it is, to stop what they are doing, sit, have coffee with them and chat like old friends. LOL

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I was surprised Taylor had a company that she was starting up, that she hated Russell ocking by calling it her little company. I would have liked to have seen at least one scene or two of her working. We had Camille working in one scene..heck even Kim had a scene of her doing a promotional event/interview for Disney.

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^ I agree totally and in my previous post where I mentioned people who met Lisa and came away disappointed were more Bravolebrity types. I think Lisa knows to be "on" when she is at one of her restaurants and somewhere else interacting with fans.

Edited by quinn
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I was surprised Taylor had a company that she was starting up, that she hated Russell ocking by calling it her little company. I would have liked to have seen at least one scene or two of her working. We had Camille working in one scene..heck even Kim had a scene of her doing a promotional event/interview for Disney.

...I know in Season 2 she won some type of award?  Wasn't it business related?  Or was it domestic abuse/charity work related?  I always thought it was some type of "Women in Business" type of award, but I remember recently in one of the threads I thought somebody mentioned it was for her charity related work...IIRC?  All this Taylor business talk is conjuring memories of a HW I don't usually like to think about...

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I always wondered why Taylor wasn't more angry at Kyle, her so called BFF, questioning if the abuse allegations were true. In practically every scene from Season 2 and TH she kept saying she wasn't sure if Russell was really abusing Taylor or not. At the White Party I have to give props to that grifter Dana/Pam who said if my girl says it, then I believe. Kyle never stood up like that for Taylor.

 

I guess Tay Tay was desperate for that Beverly Hills connection and she let that slide.

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I remember Lisa defending Kyle at the reunion. Camille was trying to call Kyle a bully both to her and to Kim and Lisa jumped right in to defend her.

 

Yes, Lisa did defend Kyle several times at the reunion. In fact, I remember thinking that Camille was using Kim as an example of Kyle's "bullying" to make herself look better.  Lisa wasn't having it. I think this is probably why Lisa was so hurt by Kyle in season 2. 

 

I've never known what to think about Camille's allegations against Kyle.  She was so insistent, but I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to say something like that.

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Yes, Lisa did defend Kyle several times at the reunion. In fact, I remember thinking that Camille was using Kim as an example of Kyle's "bullying" to make herself look better. Lisa wasn't having it. I think this is probably why Lisa was so hurt by Kyle in season 2.

I've never known what to think about Camille's allegations against Kyle. She was so insistent, but I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to say something like that.

Somebody up thread brought up the point that never occurred to me (because sometimes I'm slow) that the whole thing makes more sense if they were talking about the production of the show and Kyle said something like "it's just you and the kids? No other housewives, no Kelsey? And they're going to Hawaii with you to film?" Now I could totally see Kyle saying something like that and really only meaning it to be about 1/2 as bitchy as it sounds and Camille getting a little huffy and Kim and Taylor refusing to 100% back up Kyle because maybe she expressed a similar thought to them and the whole thing becoming really convoluted and crazy making because no one was allowed to say they were talking about filming the show, not just if people would bother to acknowledge Camille's presence on vacation.

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Somebody up thread brought up the point that never occurred to me (because sometimes I'm slow) that the whole thing makes more sense if they were talking about the production of the show and Kyle said something like "it's just you and the kids? No other housewives, no Kelsey? And they're going to Hawaii with you to film?" Now I could totally see Kyle saying something like that and really only meaning it to be about 1/2 as bitchy as it sounds and Camille getting a little huffy and Kim and Taylor refusing to 100% back up Kyle because maybe she expressed a similar thought to them and the whole thing becoming really convoluted and crazy making because no one was allowed to say they were talking about filming the show, not just if people would bother to acknowledge Camille's presence on vacation.

 

This is what I always thought about the situation. It was never meant to be offensive, yet Camille took it that way.

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Yes, Lisa did defend Kyle several times at the reunion. In fact, I remember thinking that Camille was using Kim as an example of Kyle's "bullying" to make herself look better.  Lisa wasn't having it. I think this is probably why Lisa was so hurt by Kyle in season 2.

 

I agree. I think Lisa is a "ride or die" friend to a fault. To Lisa, friendship means defending your friend's every action even if it is indefensible. That's what she gives and it's what she expects in return. In this way, friendships really are more like alliances in the chess game of life for her. On one hand, it humanizes Lisa for me a bit because I think she was genuinely hurt by Kyle not having her back at the reunion, but then we get to see how Lisa simply will never forgive Kyle for it and bends over backwards to find new allies/punish Kyle. I think so much of Lisa's friendship with Brandi was about putting the screws to Kyle (as well as having the back of someone who had her back). Lisa ultimately gets herself into trouble by having these fake friendships of convenience where they're never supposed to criticize one another. Not that she is a victim - she creates this whole mess for herself with her usury behavior.

 

Somebody up thread brought up the point that never occurred to me (because sometimes I'm slow) that the whole thing makes more sense if they were talking about the production of the show and Kyle said something like "it's just you and the kids? No other housewives, no Kelsey? And they're going to Hawaii with you to film?" Now I could totally see Kyle saying something like that and really only meaning it to be about 1/2 as bitchy as it sounds and Camille getting a little huffy and Kim and Taylor refusing to 100% back up Kyle because maybe she expressed a similar thought to them and the whole thing becoming really convoluted and crazy making because no one was allowed to say they were talking about filming the show, not just if people would bother to acknowledge Camille's presence on vacation.

 

Yeah, I always thought this off-camera exchange was about production. Especially since Kyle was so adamant about helping Camille to get on the show.

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I always wondered why Taylor wasn't more angry at Kyle, her so called BFF, questioning if the abuse allegations were true. In practically every scene from Season 2 and TH she kept saying she wasn't sure if Russell was really abusing Taylor or not

I think Kyle's THs were more about what she had to say on camera, but she felt differently off camera. I think most girlfriends will believe their friends. My thinking is, even if Kyle had proof of Russell's abuse, she wasn't going to be the one to splatter that to the public. Kyle and Mauricio really seemed to like Russell and I don't think putting Russell on blast was their way of handling the situation on camera. It wasn't their situation to handle anyways.

 

 

 

I've never known what to think about Camille's allegations against Kyle. She was so insistent, but I can't imagine anyone being stupid enough to say something like that.

I can't either. No matter how many times I have watched that season and those particular scenes, Kyle comes off as very adamant that she never said such a thing.  There was that scene with her oldest daughter in some clothing store where Kyle wanted her daughter's opinion on Camille's allegation. In that scene, Kyle seemed really stunned and shocked that Camille thinks Kyle said those things to her. When Kyle is in New York and tells Camile, "You are such a fucking liar, Camille" I came away feeling Kyle was telling the truth.  I remember on two occasions having to call out people just like that when they have accused someone of something that wasn't true. It was a feeling of anger and disbelief that someone would accuse people and it was up to me to speak up. Not at all classy, I know, but when you hear someone put another on blast, the street girl inside of me just couldn't handle that shit any longer. I totally sympathized with Kyle in that respect.

 

I also sympathize with her with what she has had to deal with Kim over the years. Addicts are assholes.

Edited by GreatKazu
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Responding to a question from another thread re Mohammed and Kim.

Mohammed threw a party for his dear friend Lisa in season one and it was also the backdrop for Kim to be set up with Martin. Kim showed up late, spent a considerable time in the bathroom, spoke to Kyle in their special language, and then, per Lisa, had to be driven home.

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Somebody up thread brought up the point that never occurred to me (because sometimes I'm slow) that the whole thing makes more sense if they were talking about the production of the show and Kyle said something like "it's just you and the kids? No other housewives, no Kelsey? And they're going to Hawaii with you to film?" Now I could totally see Kyle saying something like that and really only meaning it to be about 1/2 as bitchy as it sounds and Camille getting a little huffy and Kim and Taylor refusing to 100% back up Kyle because maybe she expressed a similar thought to them and the whole thing becoming really convoluted and crazy making because no one was allowed to say they were talking about filming the show, not just if people would bother to acknowledge Camille's presence on vacation.

 

ITA. Previously, I had just thought Camille was in a particularly insecure head space, imagined Kyle implied Camille was insignificant, and then was delusional enough to come to believe Kyle actually said that. But after all this I believe it was an exchange about production that Camille took the wrong way, and then nobody could say exactly what was said because it would be breaking the fourth wall. The first season - as in most of the installments of the franchise before 2011 or so - the HWs were followed to film out of town with their husbands. The cameras went with Adrienne and Paul to Vegas, with Mauricio and Kyle to Napa, and with Ken, Lisa, and Cedric to Santa Barbara. Kyle may have written in her notebook at the "New Real Housewives Orientation" (I actually just like to imagine they have to go to an orientation before filming, with desks and all) that the HWs would be expected to make individual trips out of town with their husbands.

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Responding to a question from another thread re Mohammed and Kim.

Mohammed threw a party for his dear friend Lisa in season one and it was also the backdrop for Kim to be set up with Martin. Kim showed up late, spent a considerable time in the bathroom, spoke to Kyle in their special language, and then, per Lisa, had to be driven home.

Basically Kim got smashed made the guy drive her all the way to the other side of the moon and then didn't think it appropriate to call and thank him.

 

Mohamed doesn't drink so I can only imagine he and Martin accommodated Kim because she was a guest of Lisa's.

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Regarding the rumor that Lisa and Brandi became friends after Hawaii, Lisa dispelled this in a blog last season.  She talked about it in defense of herself with regard to Brandi's charge that Lisa had been less than honest about her relationship with Scheana. She begins by discussing the S2 show where Lisa asks Scheana to leave the restaurant once she realizes that she was the gal who had slept with Eddie.  This was the episode that happened right after Hawaii.  This is what she said:

 

Scheana approaches me, from what I recall, saying there had been words between her and Brandi. I believe the cameras barely caught it and a subtitle was put up on screen to explain. Nobody at SUR had a clue that there was any connection or knew that several years ago there had been a relationship with Brandi's ex-husband, whom I had never heard of. So the only plausible thing for me to do was to remove Scheana from the situation as quickly as possible out of consideration for Brandi. Not that Brandi was a friend of mine (In fact I remember her being so inconsiderate at the same party, shouting for me to give Cedric a kiss, obviously not knowing me at all), but more because she was one of my guests. If, as Brandi is suggesting, that any of us knew, trust me in that situation, she would have been asked to stay. No I sent her off ASAP and was enlightened later that she had been involved with Eddie Cibrian, while not knowing he was married, and it had resulted in an affair.

 

Over the next few months, I didn't see Brandi, as I obviously didn't know her much at all. My daughter got married. I moved house and life went on. The reunion came. Brandi enlightened me that there was some kind of plot to take me down and she wanted no part of it. I remember being grateful that she had not wanted to join in what transpired to be an ugly affair."

 

Brandi has also said the same thing in the past - that she never had any communication with Lisa after the season ended until right before the reunion.  I have always believed this is the genesis of Kyle's comments about Lisa being a good Chess Player with regard to her friendships. She wanted nothing to do with Brandi during filming, but when Brandi saw the writing on the wall and recognized that if she ever wanted any type of a story line on the show she would need to interact with Lisa, Lisa was game if it would benefit her. 

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Taken from the episode thread to remain on topic:

Many moons ago, Kyle shoud have found a way to point out, with sweet nastiness, that Lisa V has pimped herself out a thousand times over to promote her crappy restaurants with their tacky and generic, sexy decor and that the proof of that is you know what, airing on the same channel on another date and time.

I'm not sure how that would serve as a rebuttal or one-upping for Kyle, as it would only be pointing out Lisa's successes (which IMO the other HWs seem to resent on some level, given all the whining they did regarding Lisa not giving enough of her time to them). Because, crappy or not, the fact is Lisa does have the three establishments. And, the show she produces is not only in its third season, but was arguably far more entertaining than this show was last season.

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I'm not even sure Lisa would think of it as an insult. Yeah, she signed up for multiple reality shows to promote her businesses and improve her cash flow. Because...it was a smart thing for her to do. How is that even a bad reason to be on a reality show? What's a good reason?

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Over the next few months, I didn't see Brandi, as I obviously didn't know her much at all. My daughter got married. I moved house and life went on. The reunion came. Brandi enlightened me that there was some kind of plot to take me down and she wanted no part of it. I remember being grateful that she had not wanted to join in what transpired to be an ugly affair."

 

Lisa's blog makes no sense and sounds like typical Lisa revisionist history. In the Season 2 reunion, Brandi clearly states that Lisa came to her birthday party. She also talked about a recent meal she had with Lisa where she (Lisa) defended Taylor (as proof that Lisa's friendship with Taylor was genuine). During her debate with Adrienne, Brandi talked about how Lisa was her friend, that she had been hanging out with Lisa since the show wrapped and, by contrast, Brandi had not seen Adrienne since filming stopped and they therefore were not friends. Per the Season 2 reunion, Brandi and Lisa had clearly been spending some amount of time together.

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Brandi claims to have had dinner with Ken's son when he was visiting for Pandora's wedding so I question Lisa's claim of not having anything to so with Brandi during the off-season.  I think Lisa likes to employ all kinds of plausible deniability. 

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Lisa's blog makes no sense and sounds like typical Lisa revisionist history. In the Season 2 reunion, Brandi clearly states that Lisa came to her birthday party. She also talked about a recent meal she had with Lisa where she (Lisa) defended Taylor (as proof that Lisa's friendship with Taylor was genuine). During her debate with Adrienne, Brandi talked about how Lisa was her friend, that she had been hanging out with Lisa since the show wrapped and, by contrast, Brandi had not seen Adrienne since filming stopped and they therefore were not friends. Per the Season 2 reunion, Brandi and Lisa had clearly been spending some amount of time together.

I completely agree with Lisa's revisionist history. As an example, Lisa also mentioned in the same blog that she was the first person to be nice to Brandi. She says it just like it is a fact. That is just total bullshit, but it was repeated enough on the Bravo Blogs last year that Lisa started saying it herself. As my mom says, don't piss down my neck and try to tell me it is rain.

I don't believe, however that Brandi's birthday party that Lisa attended was in S2. I believe that was discussed at the S3 reunion.

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I completely agree with Lisa's revisionist history. As an example, Lisa also mentioned in the same blog that she was the first person to be nice to Brandi. She says it just like it is a fact. That is just total bullshit, but it was repeated enough on the Bravo Blogs last year that Lisa started saying it herself. As my mom says, don't piss down my neck and try to tell me it is rain.

I don't believe, however that Brandi's birthday party that Lisa attended was in S2. I believe that was discussed at the S3 reunion.

I agree.  That's total BS.  Wasn't Lisa the one who had a problem with Brandi before she even met her because of Brandi's so called relationship with Cedric?  

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I completely agree with Lisa's revisionist history. As an example, Lisa also mentioned in the same blog that she was the first person to be nice to Brandi. She says it just like it is a fact. That is just total bullshit, but it was repeated enough on the Bravo Blogs last year that Lisa started saying it herself. As my mom says, don't piss down my neck and try to tell me it is rain.

I don't believe, however that Brandi's birthday party that Lisa attended was in S2. I believe that was discussed at the S3 reunion.

Lisa was the first HW to be nice to Brandi, it happened after the spa day at Paul's office. Adrienne filmed very little with Brandi season 2 even though she was the one that introduced Brandi to the show, a producer BS story as they were never friends before filming and had only met 1 time before. Adrienne never spoke up for Brandi either, not to Kyle, Kim, Taylor, Dana/Pam or Lisa. None of the other HWs liked or accepted Brandi at all, they started making fun of her day 1 and did not stop throughout the season except for Lisa at/near the end of the season. 

I agree.  That's total BS.  Wasn't Lisa the one who had a problem with Brandi before she even met her because of Brandi's so called relationship with Cedric?  

The intro they gave Brandi, friend of Adrienne's and old friend of Cedric was a Producer lie told as a way to make a connection between Brandi and the other women. Brandi did not know Cedric and had only met Adrienne 1 time at a charity event photo op and held Adrienne's dog, Jack, while Maloof posed for the cameras. Producer tricks, nothing more. LOL

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