S05.E05: Self Help

[halgia]

A new set of issues confront the group while on a mission.

 

This thread will open after the episode airs; beforehand, there's the speculation and live chat thread.

[SimoneS]

This was an okay episode. Is Eugene dead? He looked like he had brain damage or a fractured skull or a serious concussion.

[Mya Stone]

I thought there was blood pooled under his head. If nothing else his nose is super broken.

[Milaxx]

I think there must have been a collective "duh" heard round the world. Apparently everyone but the people living in this 'verse figured out that Eugene was full of BS.

I totally "lol'd" when he was speed walking across that parking lot in the flash back and then said he thinks they are getting faster. I'm pretty sure I could have out run those slow walkers even with my arthritic knees.

Edited November 10, 2014 by Milaxx

[bmoore4026]

Gah!  Abraham!  I know I've given him shit, but I so wanted to wrap him in a blankey and hold him.  Oh, you poor man!

 

Stupid people stopped him from punching Eugene.  Eugene needed more punches!  I don't care if he was awesome with that water cannon, the man was want for punching!

[Gin and Tonic]

*Long pause*

 

What's with the hair?

 

Funny Glenn is back! OMG I missed funny Glenn so much.

 

I actually liked this more than I thought I would.  I think all of the actors acquitted themselves really well and everyone got a little something to do.  I just wish it happened at the end of last season and we didn't have to wait so long to get backstory and development for the Abraham, Rosita, and Eugene. 

Edited November 10, 2014 by Gin and Tonic

[india wilkes]

I dont care enough about eugene or abraham. Once again, I feel like my time was wasted.

Come on show.

[calliope1975]

Is Eugene dead? He looked like he had brain damage or a fractured skull or a serious concussion.

 

He looked dead. I'm thinking Abe broke his nose and fragments went into his brain, but that might be wishful thinking on my part. I hope Maggie and Glenn feel stupid for leaving Rick and Co. 

[bosawks]

Oh Tara, I will miss you and your awkward ass fist bumps when you shuffle off to the great Happy Meal in the sky.

[SimoneS]

Surprisingly, I felt for Abraham when I saw how vulnerable and unstable he was when he first encountered Eugene. No wonder he was desperate to believe Eugene.

[Boofish]

God I wish Eugene had put the Grimes family in that type of danger. He would have chosen death by walker

Edited November 10, 2014 by Boofish

[Rosiejuliemom]

Abraham's "dolphin-smooth" comment did not provide a pretty mental picture.

Eugene watching is a regular thing? Ew.

Oh Eugene, the group would too keep you even though you're nearly worthless. They kept Beth, didn't they?

Maggie: "I feel guilty." Me: "For not really giving a shit about your sister?"

Not gonna lie, Eugene, that shit with the fire hose was pretty sweet.

How big was that damn herd that the smell bothered them?

 

Abraham's backstory was heartbreaking.

[halgia]

If you've read the comics, be very careful to avoid spoiling those who don't, and keep in mind that some people may have much stricter notions of what a spoiler is. Any substantial comic talk should go in the comics thread; minor discussion is okay here, but be very liberal with the spoiler tags, and don't give away too much outside the tags either. We're still figuring out what the right solution for this is; we'd love your thoughts on it here.

[Morrigan2575]

Boring episode but the live chat was highly entertaining.

I really liked Tara in this episode. I also found the humor about the Mullet kind of fun. I will also give props to Eugene because I would have taken a book from the store as well.

Other than that not a great episode.

[xls]

Eugene not a scientist? Wow, didn't see that coming! 

[ghoulina]

Maybe it was because of the clusterfuck that was the Beth episode, but I kind of liked this one. I didn't love it, but I liked it. It had some laughs, so good action, and some interesting back story. Questions were answered. 

 

I knew Eugene was lying. I think most of us did. But it was nice to finally hear it, I'm glad that they didn't drag it out all the way to DC. And I kind of loved that he actually saved Abraham's life in the beginning. I'm not ashamed to admit that I teared up a bit at that realization. 

 

Abraham's backstory really sheds a lot of light on his gung-ho attitude. He couldn't bear to stop for a second and think about what had happened to his family (which, apparently, he was married to Amy Winehouse?). He had to focus solely on this mission....now what? What does he have to live for? 

 

I'm actually really interested to see where these characters go from here. (Is Eugene even alive???) Can Abraham keep going. Can they forgive Eugene? Will they go back to the group. I really don't mind these three, and I actually feel sorry for Eugene and want to see him persevere.

 

My only complaint - can they please stop dying Abraham's hair??? It's so obvious and distracting.

[Mya Stone]

That firehose made me laugh. Nothing made me laugh harder than Abraham saying he's seen 7 county fairs and a goat race and nothing's crazier than that. Not even Funny!Glenn.

[natyxg]

This was an okay episode. Is Eugene dead? He looked like he had brain damage or a fractured skull or a serious concussion.

 

I heard a really ugly crack when he fell. I think he is screwed. I knew it was pretty likely that he was full of shit, but I hoped he wasn’t. Oh well. At least they will stop mentioning Washington DC now.

 

I thought it was a meh episode. I think I only really liked Abraham's back story.

 

I'm glad Eugene said he messed with the bus because I thought that was the lamest crash ever. So at least something caused it and it wasn't just Abe crashing on a half empty road.

 

Lmao, today Maggie actually talked, but still... none for Beth.

[fliptopbox]

I'm not sure it was just the herd on the road wasn't all they smelled. It looked like there was a fuckton of walkers behind some fences of whatever that large building was in the background. Going forward even in a vehicle probably would have been suicide.

[mustbekarma]

Damn. Eugene was a liar, but at least he was smart enough to use the fire hose to ward off the walkers. Perhaps it's not a good idea to talk about how much smarter you are than anybody else. When I think about it, he really was. At least he was honest. I mean, Eugene could have manipulated Abraham into changing course. That's a definite possibility.

 

That being said, I wouldn't mind if Eugene was most sincerely dead.

[SoSueMe]

I was starting to get a Shelley Duvall - Jack Nicholson vibe on the Abe & family scenes.

[BrokenRemote]

Ok, I do think Eugene is smart. I'm guessing they decide to still take him to DC on the chance he might be able to do something, that last thin thread of hope.

Did anyone get what Abe's family was so horrified about with the blood on his hands that they ran away and left a note not to follow? I can't believe they'd be that shocked by him killing walkers...

[Artsda]

Glad the rest know Eugene is full of it, now. I'd never read the comics/spoilers, but I didn't think he was telling the truth he was too spacey and couldn't tell anyone anything when they asked what the cure was. 

 

Maggie's worried and feeling guilty over leaving Darryl and Carol? REALLY? I hope when Beth returns she treats Maggie like nothing, because that's how Maggie treats her.  

[Macbeth]

Eugene's revelation is right up there with being told the sky is blue.

 

Camp Dinner Bell, as usual, will be stunned by the news.

[ghoulina]

Abraham's backstory was heartbreaking.

 

It really was. And I didn't fully understand why his wife left. Because he got a little carried away beating the guys in the store to death? Were they bad guys? Wasn't he just trying to keep them safe? I was a little foggy on that situation, but she must have thought he did something pretty awful to give up his protection and risk it out there with the walkers.

[natyxg]

Ok, I do think Eugene is smart. I'm guessing they decide to still take him to DC on the chance he might be able to do something, that last thin thread of hope.

Did anyone get what Abe's family was so horrified about with the blood on his hands that they ran away and left a note not to follow? I can't believe they'd be that shocked by him killing walkers...

 

They weren’t walkers, they were people. He killed like 5 people in front of them.

[Morrigan2575]

Did anyone get what Abe's family was so horrified about with the blood on his hands that they ran away and left a note not to follow? I can't believe they'd be that shocked by him killing walkers...

I think he killed people, not Walker's but I could be wrong

[Raachel2008]

Only three episodes left in 2014? Damn.

 

I'm not sure why Abraham family ran away? I love Michael Cuditz, and he knocked it out of the park. If they would only stop dying his hair...

 

Scientists all over the world released a collective breath now that mullets and science are not long a pairing.

 

Eugene was lucky that it wasn't Shane listening to the truth. Just saying.

 

Really Maggie? Not even a tear for you missing sister? But you miss Carol and Daryl? Not even Carl?

[Nashville]

Ok, I do think Eugene is smart. I'm guessing they decide to still take him to DC on the chance he might be able to do something, that last thin thread of hope.

 

I totally agree - he was probably the smartest guy working at the comic book store.

[Milaxx]

I think it was Tara telling him to relax because they were friends they finally spurred him on to tell the truth. Beside trying to go through that walker herd was sure and certain suicide and he knew it.

[Nashville]

I think he killed people, not Walker's but I could be wrong

 

Yep - the last guy was still respirating.  For a while.

[marleyfan]

Is it just me or my television set? The scenes at night are SO hard to see. Even with all the lights off in the room. I wish there was a little back lighting going on, like moonlight.

[kj4ever]

This was the worst episode ever for me. I don't care about any of these people. How does this show start out so awesome and crash and burn by the 2nd or 3rd episode every single season?

[wait.what]

I'm not sure if it was just my TV or what, but during the flashback scenes Abraham's hair did not seem so RED, just kinda brownish, light reddish. When Eugene said "I have an important mission" and the scene cut back to Abraham:suddenly his hair was BRIGHT RED. Then when Abraham learned Eugene did not have the cure, his hair didn't seem so bright. Maybe I just have a cheap TV?

[Irishmaple]

I really felt for Abraham at the end of that episode.  He had become so unglued that his own family feared him and disappeared, presumably to their deaths, rather than stay with him.  He was suicidal when useless Eugene stumbled on him, and gave him something to believe in.  He lost almost everyone he got to come along with him on his mission, and then Eugene pulled the rug out from under him.  I do want to see what comes next for him now that his mission has been exposed as a manipulation.

 

I've never liked Eugene but, while I can understand his motivation to stay alive, I just despise him now.  He didn't have to coast all that time.  He could have learned how to use a weapon and hold up his end just like everyone else had to do.  He sounded so smug about being smarter than Abraham and a better liar.  I don't blame Abraham at all for wanting to beat the crap out of him. 

 

I really liked Rosita and Tara in this episode.  Both of them were smart and competent, and I liked that Rosita stood up to Abraham.  She cares for him, but she knows who she's dealing with.

[SimoneS]

Did anyone get what Abe's family was so horrified about with the blood on his hands that they ran away and left a note not to follow? I can't believe they'd be that shocked by him killing walkers...

 

Abraham murdered about five men. The show was vague about why although they just talked about it on Talking Dead. In the comic book, 

Abraham's wife and daughter were raped in front of his son while he was on a supply run.

Edited November 10, 2014 by SimoneS

[Nashville]

Is it just me or my television set? The scenes at night are SO hard to see. Even with all the lights off in the room. I wish there was a little back lighting going on, like moonlight.

 

It's not you OR your TV, it's the broadcast.

This mood-lighting shit is getting on my last fucking nerve.  Just so you know.

[BrokenRemote]

Thanks for the info. I missed that he was killing humans. The explanation on The Talking Dead helps, too. Wish they'd given us more in the actual show.

Wait, we saw him discover his dead family too? I either was not paying attention at ALL or that part wasn't clear.

[natyxg]

I'm not sure why Abraham family ran away?

 

Because they were afraid of him. He killed four or five people with his bare hands, in front of them.

 

Wait, we saw him discover his dead family too? I either was not paying attention at ALL or that part wasn't clear.

 

Yeah, he found them just outside the store, half eaten. That's why he was going to kill himself, but Eugene came along.

 

I get that they were afraid of him, but leaving him was really not a good plan.

Edited November 10, 2014 by natyxg

[SimoneS]

Yep, they showed the remains of his eaten family. Seriously, I don't understand how his wife and children were more afraid of him than the walkers. They were crazy.

I could see the night scenes fine. The only really dark scene when when Abraham was standing at the window. My tv is a plasma which is very good in the dark.

 

I did chuckle when Glenn said that he did not need to know that Abraham needed some ass. LOL! 

Edited November 10, 2014 by SimoneS

[ghoulina]

I think it was Tara telling him to relax because they were friends they finally spurred him on to tell the truth. Beside trying to go through that walker herd was sure and certain suicide and he knew it.

 

Absolutely. Tara made him feel he was part of the group no matter what. And he knew he could't keep putting people's lives at risk over this lie. Any one of them could have died when that bus flipped. Enough is enough.

 

It's not you OR your TV, it's the broadcast.

This mood-lighting shit is getting on my last fucking nerve.  Just so you know.

 

I think it was the worst it's ever been tonight. I've never complained about it before, but tonight I kept telling my husband - "I can't see. What's going on?"

[patty1h]

While they were talking in the bus, didn't it sound like Eugene's plan for walker eradication involved nuclear weapons? I had always assumed his cure involved medicine or science.

[BrokenRemote]

If what they discussed on TTD really happened then it seems silly that they'd be more afraid of Abraham than of other humans who might do such things to them. As it stood in the actual show aren't we kind of left to think he just went and tore apart some people for no good reason? I really have to rewatch this one.

[SoSueMe]

Thanks for the info. I missed that he was killing humans. The explanation on The Talking Dead helps, too. Wish they'd given us more in the actual show.

Wait, we saw him discover his dead family too? I either was not paying attention at ALL or that part wasn't clear.

Right before he 'meets' Eugene, he tears off his dog tags when he finds them.

[Nashville]

While they were talking in the bus, didn't it sound like Eugene's plan for walker eradication involved nuclear weapons? I had always assumed his cure involved medicine or science.

 

Well, Eugene was making it up as he went, so I don't think he was prepared for that level of depth in questioning.

[mmecorday]

I think they should keep Eugene around. Using the fire hose to decimate the decaying zombies was genius.

 

Because my cable sucks and I experience disruptions in my service several times an episode, what was written on the ground outside the firehouse?

[nodorothyparker]

At this point I can't tell if it's the hair dye or the character's complete lack of couth or it's the actor himself that just isn't cutting it for me, but something isn't working.  Abraham's back story was pretty damn rough and I kept thinking there at the end, watching him put the gun in his mouth only to be stopped by Eugene's shrieking across the parking lot that I should be really moved by this.  From a pure storytelling standpoint, it should be just devastating that the one thing that gave him reason to live on was just taken away from him and he's been left looking like the world's biggest schmuck.  So why aren't I really feeling it?

 

On the plus side, still better than last week.

[BrokenRemote]

I saw him see the bodies and rip off his dog tags, didn't make the connection with his family. I should have, in retrospect. I still say the show didn't give his family enough justification to run away from him.

[Pete Martell]

I feel like this episode will probably get bashed enough to where I'll end up defending it even though I wasn't totally enthused. 

 

What did I like:

 

- While this is not a group I would have spent an episode on, I'm glad the show had the guts to do so. The reveal would not have worked if there had been 2 or 3 different strands in this episode. 

 

- The group dynamics. They worked better than I thought they would. 

 

- Tara. I'm a big Tara fan, and this episode just confirmed it. I loved that she was trying to give Eugene a chance the way she was given a chance. I loved the way she kept throwing herself toward Abraham to try to protect Glenn. 

 

- While I have no interest in seeing yet another dead lady for manpain (and yet another dead little girl to boot...), they managed to make Abraham's backstory short yet gutwrenching. Michael Cudlitz did a good job of showing how much of an animal Abraham had become.

 

- Rosita being smart and having a voice of her own. 

 

- Eugene getting the shit beat out of him. I already have a hard time believing they wouldn't just stab him in the head and walk away, but at least he got some comeuppance. 

 

- Maggie getting a little more airtime and having Actual Conversations with people. 

 

- the library setting, the firehose kills, etc. Nice to see things switched up.

 

What did I not like?

 

- the lighting was, yet again this season, so dark I literally was staring at a black screen for huge portions of the episode. 

 

- I don't mind seeing sex on TWD, I truly don't, and if they get puritan backlash over this I will defend them, but the whole bit with Eugene perving on Abraham and Rosita wasn't needed and made the character seem like a total creeper.

 

- I don't think they entirely got across the horrors of Abraham's backstory.

 

- I give Maggie a pass because so many other fans bash her 24/7, but the Beth stuff still needs to be addressed. 

 

- I'm still not sure Abraham has any place on the show. 

Edited November 10, 2014 by Pete Martell

[Mu Shu]

It's not you OR your TV, it's the broadcast.

This mood-lighting shit is getting on my last fucking nerve.  Just so you know.

Never mind the sound-I either lip read, or have my neighbor pounding on the wall.  Can't hear, can't see.  Also, AMC is a pay channel-Why so many fucking commercials? 

 

I liked how Abraham ran like he was carrying suitcases, and fell the same way.   Until we meet him running towards Abraham, pumping his arms, sort of.   No continuity. 

 

Can we get back to the real story now?    I don't have two fucks to give about this bunch, though I did like the realization on Glenn's face when he realized the bum deal he and Maggie were in when they wanted to get some supplies from the untouched town and Sgt adamantium nipples refused to stop.      Oh, the sex and Eugene watching?    Doesn't matter how many calories I had today, since I purged them.