Talking About Talking About The Comics

[halgia]

Since it's come up a few times, let's talk about talking about the comics that spawned all of this stuff and thangs.

 

First up:

• Any major plot points from the comics that haven't been on the show should absolutely be spoiler-tagged, anywhere except a comics-specific thread (currently, just this one that hasn't really seen much activity).
   
• For now, non-spoilery discussion of differences from the comics / whatever are on-topic anywhere here.
   
• If you want to bring up information from the games, which I see as much less of an issue, spoiler-tag it if it's an important spoiler for the games (some people haven't played them but might want to in the future, which incidentally I totally recommend), but otherwise non-spoilery discussion of things that come up in the games is fine.

 

Game of Thrones and Outlander have separate "Book Talk" / "No Book Talk" threads for most everything. We could do that here, but since the show doesn't follow the books as closely and (I think?) there aren't as many book readers here, I'm not sure the Book Talk threads will get any traction.

 

Would you use book talk threads? Do you hate seeing people refer to the comics? Love to get insight from the books? What do you think about what we should do here?

[LilySilver]

I voted "no book talk" even though I don't really mind it (I don't get worried about being spoiled--I'm in it for the character/relationship stuff more than plot points).  The second option was really more how I feel about it, I just think it's easier and cleaner to say "take comic talk to the comic thread." 

 

I don't really even mind LOTS of comic talk, except that it often seems to get confusing as to whether someone is referencing events in the comics or the TV series.

 

So my vote is for simple and clean, but it's not a value judgment people :).

 

ETA: On second thought, maybe we could just ask spoiler tags of those who post comic stuff, just for those who hate it?  As I said, it doesn't bother me, so my answer was based on what would be most easily moderated. I know however that for some people, comics info really grates and always seems spoilery even though technically I don't think it is.... So much for simple and clean.

Edited October 15, 2014 by LilySilver

[kikismom]

I don't mind since some of the stuff in the comics is so different (ask about Dale's romance lol)

I would not expect them to copy it because it would hurt the ratings if people had known the last 4 seasons would just be the comics with live action.

[melanie]

I think it is fine to just have a thread dedicated to the comics (graphic novel) discussions.  Since I am both a reader and a viewer of the Walking Dead, I would enjoy having a place to discuss differences/similarities, etc.  

 

I know this is a silly question, but being new to the forum, could someone explain how to add a spoiler tag?  Or direct me on where to go to learn?  

 

Thanks!

[editorgrrl]

I know this is a silly question, but being new to the forum, could someone explain how to add a spoiler tag?  Or direct me on where to go to learn?  

 

There are no silly questions! Forums > Info > Site Business > Questions has lots of answers, but I couldn't find one about the spoiler tag. It's the crossed-out circle at the far right of the toolbar. Or put [ spoiler ] before your text and [ /spoiler ] after (no spaces).

[halgia]

I think it is fine to just have a thread dedicated to the comics (graphic novel) discussions.  Since I am both a reader and a viewer of the Walking Dead, I would enjoy having a place to discuss differences/similarities, etc. 

There's a thread specifically for the comics here, it's just languishing on page 3 because nobody's posted in it in three months. If y'all book types want to start using that thread to talk about comparisons and whatnot, that'd be one way to give a place for that.

[mandolin]

Yes! I was starting to talk to myself in there!

[editorgrrl]

Maybe we could just ask spoiler tags of those who post comic stuff, just for those who hate it? 

 

Wait, I thought this is the site policy?

 

I read an Entertainment Weekly interview with Greg Nicotero where he compared a scene in the season premiere to something that happens in the comics, and I spoiler tagged it when I posted to the episode thread.

 

Edited to add that I voted "I don't read the comics but don't mind having lots of comic talk everywhere all the time," thinking that said comic talk would be spoiler tagged outside the spoiler thread and the comics thread.

Edited October 16, 2014 by editorgrrl

[LilySilver]

Well I know it was at TWoP but I'm new here and since I don't read the comics I'm not up on that rule....okay okay I didn't really read the TOS carefully when I came here in my grief-stricken state.

Since I don't mind being spoiled I really don't notice this issue much. I do know that those who read the comics like to have a place to compare, contrast, and speculate, and I know that some people REALLY dislike comics discussion, viewing it as too spoilery. So the simplest solution is to consider all comics discussion spoilers---for people like me the tags work great so that I can be spoiled all I want without wrecking someone else's day.

[GreyBunny]

However you guys want to set it up is fine with me.  I don't read the comics but I'm aware of the storylines and characters and I love spoilers so I actually enjoy the comic book discussions and references.

[Seawolff]

I eventually want to read the novels and don't want to be spoiled about them while I am here discussing the show. Also, I like wild speculation that does not include rain clouds of "well, it didn't happen" or "it happens in the comics," followed by spoiler tagged descriptions of the details.

[Pete Martell]

wrong thread

Edited October 18, 2014 by Pete Martell

[mandolin]

Deleted comment. Wrong thread!

Edited October 18, 2014 by mandolin

[editorgrrl]

This is a thread for talking about talking about the comics. (So meta!)

The actual comic talk goes here: The Comics: Same, Yet Different

Edited October 18, 2014 by editorgrrl

[mandolin]

Oh duh. I didn't even notice either. Heh.

[weightyghost]

I've read about half the graphic novels and I stopped because I found it spoiled the show for me. While it doesn't follow it exactly, there are enough similarities where I started to see things coming (like what happened to Hershel) so I stopped. I like being surprised by the show, rather than surprised in book form. I don't mind reading posts about things that have happened on the show in comparison to the comics (like Shane's portrayal, the prison takedown, the Governor, etc) but don't want to read about any potential story lines. 

[raven]

oops wrong thread.

Edited October 20, 2014 by raven

[Catronia]

For shows I really enjoy and care about, I do everything I can to avoid any kind of spoilers, even if they are oblique or vague.  I would much prefer that all comic discussion be contained in a thread or threads separate from the episode threads so I can enjoy the discussion without any kind of spoilers at all.  If that's not possible, I'd like it if any reference to the comics in the episode threads were spoiler-tagged.

[halgia]

Okay, this week let's try out separate threads for "book talk" and "no book talk" and see how it goes. Feel free to give feedback on how that's working here, and we can re-evaluate for the future.

[editorgrrl]

I prefer one episode thread with book talk spoiler tagged. Then I can decide on a case by case basis what to read.

 

The book talk thread is an all or nothing proposition.

[Guest]

It would work better if both threads opened.

[halgia]

It would work better if both threads opened.

Yeah, sorry about that! Totally my fault. It's open now.

[Turtle]

I'd rather have book talk spoiler-tagged within the episode discussion, rather than having separate threads.  I won't read the book talk thread for fear of being spoiled (like I was last season when someone didn't spoiler-tag talk about cannibalism in the epi thread - still mad about it), and I don't want to miss out what those posters say about the episode itself.  A lot of posters who read the books post some great thoughts about the episodes that are not dependent on their book knowledge, and I worry they would post all their thoughts in the book talk thread, and I'd miss it.  I'm selfish that way.  

 

That said, I would really rather not have the "live chat" be a part of the episode thread, because while I'm sure it's fun for those participating, it is really not interesting to read when I watch the show later.  I'm a poster who firmly believes in reading the entire thread before posting, and the episode threads get long enough without 2 pages of "Oh my god!" and "Morrrgggaaan!!!" Not that I'm judging, I do a similar thing texting with my friends who watch when I do, but it's just not fun to read when you're not watching simultaneously.  /grumpy old lady

 

Thanks for asking, and for working to make these threads as fun and useful as they can be!

 

Edited October 27, 2014 by Turtle

[Iguessnot]

Please, one thread only for episodes and have spoiler tags. Right now there are about 3 threads for the 4 walls & roof episode and two are locked. Not every post was spoilerish but the conversations can't be continued because of the locks. Besides who wants to 3 threads about the same episode?

Edited October 27, 2014 by Iguessnot

[halgia]

Please, one thread only for episodes and have spoiler tags. Right now there are about 3 threads for the 4 walls & roof episode and two are locked. Not every post was spoilerish but the conversations can't be continued because of the locks. Besides who wants to 3 threads about the same episode?

Only one thread is locked, and that's the live chat thread that people don't want to have to read through afterwards.

If the general consensus is merged comic talk, we'll go back to that. We're just trying this out because we've had several complaints about comic people spoiling stuff, either by not using tags or by being too obvious outside the tags about what's in it.

[Turtle]

Maybe have one ongoing thread for comic book discussion, and continue the episode discussions as-is?  If there's one ongoing thread for comic readers, they can have the discussion about the books and how they compare to the episodes, but maybe will also participate in the actual episode threads?  I could be way off base, but my impression from reading the threads is that the overlap of book readers and active episode posters is not so large as to make this impossible.  

 

ETA: And maybe we have a constant warning at top of page about spoilers?  Some folks are going to be jerks, and there's no way to stop that, but I think a perm mod post could go a long way in reminding folks that might just be careless to mind their words.  

Edited October 27, 2014 by Turtle

[Milaxx]

I liked having the separate threads. I don't mind an occasional vague mention of the comics, but major storylines and constant comparisons are annoying.

[mandolin]

I am a comic reader, and I enjoyed the separate post, but I doubt a weekly thread for comics vs show will get much discussion. Maybe there could be two comics threads: "what's happening in the comics now" and "current show happenings vs comics." I don't know, it's tough.

 

As an aside, though I do read the comics, I am unspoiled otherwise, and I do see the tendency for those "in the know" make poor use of the spoiler tag. Example: "I don't think they will do that because 

blah blah blah

." To me, that says that something is coming up regarding a particular situation, and that is even more info than I want (if that makes sense). I'd like to see any and all spoiler talk only in the spoiler thread. I'm fine with whatever you decide for comic talk, but I think it needs its own place, not spoilered in the ep thread.

Edited October 27, 2014 by mandolin

[indeed]

Call me old-fashioned, but I like one S##.E## discussion thread for a particular episode. It's too messy with multiple threads for the same episode (and may be unnecessary if an episode turns out to not really have any GN references in it). If people want to talk about the graphic novel, they can go to the GN vs. show thread or use their words and spoiler tags appropriately to NOT spoil people with GN details that are different. Maybe the GN vs. show thread can be pinned to the top of the forum so people are aware of its existence (and will be encouraged to use it) along with a "read this" clarification thread on where to post and how if mixing GN details in an episode thread.

Edited October 27, 2014 by indeed

[editorgrrl]

I prefer one episode thread with book talk spoiler tagged. Then I can decide on a case by case basis what to read. The book talk [episode] thread is an all or nothing proposition.

 

Though I do read the comics, I am unspoiled otherwise, and I do see the tendency for those "in the know" make poor use of the spoiler tag. Example: "I don't think they will do that because 

blah blah blah

." To me, that says that something is coming up regarding a particular situation, and that is even more info than I want (if that makes sense). I'd like to see any and all spoiler talk only in the spoiler thread. I'm fine with whatever you decide for comic talk, but I think it needs its own place, not spoilered in the ep thread.

 

If the general consensus is merged comic talk, we'll go back to that. We're just trying this out because we've had several complaints about comic people spoiling stuff, either by not using tags or by being too obvious outside the tags about what's in it.

 

See, mandolin and I have entirely opposite opinions. I need some context to decide whether or whether or not to read a spoiler, so I find mandolin's hypothetical 100% appropriate. As I said above, with separate "book talk" & "no book talk" episode threads, my only options are to read all the spoilers, or none of the spoilers. I guess that makes me a spoiler libertarian?

 

But the mods have received complaints, which is why Dougal et al. are using trial & error to find out what might work best for the majority. (Thank you for all your hard work, BTW.) I only wish more users would vote in the poll, and/or post a comment here.

 

 

[mandolin]

I see your point editorgrrl! It's a tough one to be sure. I really appreciate the mods trying out different thing to see what works best.

[sweetcookieface]

I prefer one episode thread with book talk spoiler tagged. Then I can decide on a case by case basis what to read.

 

 

Basically this. I didn't vote in the poll because I'm a comics reader who doesn't want separate episode threads for comics discussion. I just think it's more efficient to have one episode thread. That's not to say I have no interest in discussing the comics; I just prefer to do so in the more general comics v. TV show thread.

[walnutqueen]

I prefer no comic book talk in episode threads, and I hate being spoiled - accidentally or otherwise.  Once you've seen a major spoiler, it's like Gareth said: "You can't go back".   But I'm OK with whatever the Mods decide makes sense for the majority, and is easiest to "Moderate" during the busiest times right after an episode airs. 

[HalcyonDays]

New option in the poll:  I read the comics but don't really want a separate episode thread for comic discussion

[editorgrrl]

One problem with the two-thread system is that they both have the exact same title—so I can't tell the notifications apart.

[The Mighty Peanut]

I have a bit of an issue with having to spoiler tag all book talk, no matter how vague, to keep them unspoiled for future readers. The show is echoing plots from roughly 2003-2005 -- I feel after 10+ years since their publication they are fair game for in-thread references provided that major deaths or arcs would remain behind tags. However, I adore spoilers and admit that skews my perspective.

I am strongly against keeping all book talk to a separate comics thread, so if the broad approach to spoiler tagging comic references will allow them to be discussed in one general episode thread I'm certainly willing to make the sacrifice. ;)

ETA: I appreciate the opportunity to give feedback.

Edited October 29, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[Seawolff]

When I saw the experiment my first reaction was: "oh no, I won't get to read so and so's amazing opinion!" Followed by: "Thank goodness I won't get spoiled"

I'm a literal person. If there's ANY context or opinion describing a tagged spoiler I pretty much know what the spoiler is and there was no point in tagging it in the first place! The thread topic under which it's posted is the only context I want to see regarding what a spoiler is about.

I like this format :

Just one thread for episodes.

*Have the yellow alert post at the top of each page reminding us to tag spoilers or comics references and please don't indicate what the spoiler is about. Think of the thread title as context and put your description or opinion based on the spoiler inside the spoiler tags. If that's not possible, then the post belongs in the comic book talk or spoiler thread.*

One thread for random comics talk

It is a challenge to literary ability to be spoiled and not let it show. If you must state an opinion and want to justify it with something spoiler tagged Hey, that's kind of a spoiler even if it ends up being wrong. Some sites ask those who are comics savvy to stay away from unspoiled threads because the opinions stated are obviously "in the know."

If people really cannot conduct themselves using tags in unspoiled threads then change it to no spoilers whatsoever not even in tags. It really depends on the community of posters as to whether it works. Are we Rick's gang, are we terminites, or are we claimers? Let's just not be Lori!

[mandolin]

I am a comic reader, and I enjoyed the separate post, but I doubt a weekly thread for comics vs show will get much discussion. Maybe there could be two comics threads: "what's happening in the comics now" and "current show happenings vs comics." I don't know, it's tough.

 

This is what I thought might work earlier, and since this week's episode appears to be completely unrelated to the comics, it might still be a good option. I did enjoy last week's separate post. Really, though it doesn't seem like a thread for current comic happenings gets much interest. We could probably get by with one thread for comics talk, which included show comparisons and current comic stuff. I guess the assumption would have to be that people are caught up on the comics though. 

[editorgrrl]

We could probably get by with one thread for comics talk, which included show comparisons and current comic stuff. I guess the assumption would have to be that people are caught up on the comics though.

The timey-wimey thing is tricky. Tainted meat was discussed on TWOP back when Dale died, so technically I was spoiled. But such is life. (TBH, the dawning realization as the scene played out was kind of fun.)

[The Mighty Peanut]

I mean no disrespect but I am beginning to feel like this is getting out of hand. I am at the point where I don't even want to post in the non-spoiler threads, which may be great for some people but certainly takes some of my enjoyment of the site and discussion away. I feel we are going to such great lengths not to spoil people -- we can't so much as say the comics take a different direction because it might be subtly spoiling something that didn't happen in a book from 10 years ago that some people haven't read, and that comics readers should watch their tone because simply having knowledge about how the comics play out can be accidentally implied in episode threads and spoil people, and that spoiler tags being used at all is kind of a spoiler...it's starting to feel like a thought police state! Is there any possibility we can just spoiler tag when in doubt and be sensitive to the fact that a lot of people hate spoilers, and in general just try not to be jerks?

Edited October 31, 2014 by The Mighty Peanut

[Bongo Fury]

...it's starting to feel like a thought police state! Is there any possibility we can just spoiler tag when in doubt and be sensitive to the fact that a lot of people hate spoilers, and in general just try not to be jerks?

 

I agree with you completely. Well, maybe not completely, it's not so much a police statey feel, but rather anyone who has read the comics is now treated like they have ebola and are shunned and unwelcome. Forced quarantine.

 

But I agree that there should NOT be a separate and anything spoilery/comics related should be spoiler tagged. And if someone is indeed a jerk and isn't as diligent with their spoiler tags as is necessary, then THAT person should be smacked on the nose with a newspaper by a mod. Take action against people who are responsible for inappropriate posting, rather than treating an entire segment of the forum community as pariahs. 

[mandolin]

There has to be a way to differentiate between comic talk and true TV spoilers though.

[walnutqueen]

I do feel your frustration, and there are no easy answers.  Speaking as someone who watches TV shows ONLY, and tries to remain "unspoiled" and therein surprised, I prefer just a little of this "policey state?" stuff.  Because people in the know often forget what they know and how they know it.  Also, I see certain names pop up frequently on the title page in the "spoiled/watch duty" thread, and those same names are posting in Spec w/o Spoilers thread.  And because I'm a suspicious old crone, I glance askance at some very intuitive speculations, and wonder if I'm being teased ...

 

Like other forums where there is "source material,  (see GoT book/unsullied, or Gracepoint v Broadchurch), the separate threads seem to be the only way to respect the many factions of fans/posters PTV serves so well.

 

Oh, and NEVER use the "Next Unread Topic" button if you're Unsullied,  because it might just land you in the Spoiler thread (and mayhem ensues)!

[The Mighty Peanut]

I was exaggerating purposely when I said police state. I was just frustrated because I was writing a post and sat there for a few minutes wondering if I said anything that would constitute a spoiler. I wound up not posting, and I think (I hope) I have decent observations to contribute, so it kind of sucks for everyone. I agree with Bongo that we should smack down the jerks on an individual basis.

[editorgrrl]

It's not so much a police statey feel, but rather anyone who has read the comics is now treated like they have ebola and are shunned and unwelcome. Forced quarantine.

This says it better than I ever could. The two "separate but equal" episode threads have made me afraid to post—and I haven't even read the graphic novels! My spoilers are just things Kirkman & Nicotero say to Entertainment Weekly about the graphic novels. (So I guess that makes me a doctor's fiancée in the Ebola analogy.)

And if I'm this intimidated, I can only imagine how those who read the source material must feel!

[halgia]

We don't want you to be intimidated! Just be liberal with your use of the spoiler tags and it should be fine. If you screw up with good intentions, it's not like you're getting banned for that!

 

My expectation is that we'll go back to merged threads soon, but with any significant comic talk in the general comics-versus-tv thread, and maybe some others if needed.

[lawless]

I like being surprised by the show, rather than surprised in book form. I don't mind reading posts about things that have happened on the show in comparison to the comics (like Shane's portrayal, the prison takedown, the Governor, etc) but don't want to read about any potential story lines.

This is where I am at -- I really, really don't like spoilers because it changes the whole tension of the show for me if I suspect a certain thing is going to happen.  It seems like the show is diverging from the comics in some senses, but keeping to major plotlines and just switching up the characters that experience them or the way that they experience them.  I have been spoiled by posters who failed to adequately use spoiler tags, or who gave too much away around the spoiler tags, and really wish I hadn't been.  It's difficult to stay unspoiled, and sometimes it can be mighty difficult to avoid the temptation to read the stuff in the spoiler tags because you think it will only reveal one thing, but in fact it reveals quite a bit more.

I have a bit of an issue with having to spoiler tag all book talk, no matter how vague, to keep them unspoiled for future readers. The show is echoing plots from roughly 2003-2005 -- I feel after 10+ years since their publication they are fair game for in-thread references provided that major deaths or arcs would remain behind tags. However, I adore spoilers and admit that skews my perspective.

I do not feel the same way at all, and though I love reading books, I don't get the same pleasure from comics, and so I want to just watch the show and see how it develops without knowing what happens.  I have been spoiled about this show about the Governor and other things, and wish I hadn't been, as curious as I am after each episode about what happens next. 

 

However, I also really enjoy being part of the discussion with the whole community, and want everyone to feel welcome and not on their guard, so it's hard to say what the best way to handle this is.  I guess I wish the rule was to try to keep spoilers from the comics or the more traditional kind just about the show out of the episode threads, but have a place where comic readers can definitely go to compare and contrast.  I actually would enjoy insight into how things from the comics varied from things that happen on the show -- but ONLY if that would not reveal future character events and storylines -- highly unlikely that this would be viable.

[mandolin]

I've appreciated people being extra careful with spoilery stuff, but (I'm probably a broken record here), is there a good way to differentiate between comic talk and true tv spoilers? 

[walnutqueen]

I've appreciated people being extra careful with spoilery stuff, but (I'm probably a broken record here), is there a good way to differentiate between comic talk and true tv spoilers? 

 

Even if there were, I would avoid both at all costs.  :-(

[Bad Example]

I don't mind the threads being together, but people have GOT to be careful about how they tag spoilers so as not to give anything away.  (I'm still really, really angry about that "character fate" spoiler tag.)