Current Plots Discussion: Actually Today's Episode

[CanaryFan98]

4 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

I forgot to mention the death of Vivian. Obviously, this is not how I wanted her to go out, but considering she needed a get out of jail free card and Yvon is there to fake this and smuggle her out... I didn't really react. But now I'm thinking about it and Louise is very old and the show's future is in question. This could be it for her. I really hope it isn't though.

I'm ok with this being her exit granted I wanted more of a bang if she was going to die it should've been at the hands of Carly or even Kate. 

[DaphneCat]

58 minutes ago, DisneyBoy said:

I forgot to mention the death of Vivian. Obviously, this is not how I wanted her to go out, but considering she needed a get out of jail free card and Yvon is there to fake this and smuggle her out... I didn't really react. But now I'm thinking about it and Louise is very old and the show's future is in question. This could be it for her. I really hope it isn't though.

I agree we may not see Vivian (or Louise) anymore.  However, I think your first scenario is more likely.  She's faking her death - she'll either have a goodbye with Jake or there will be some cryptic clue letting us all know Vivian is out there somewhere.

[norcalgal]

1 hour ago, Pearson80 said:

Lumi all the way.. I was never a big fan of JER but he always knew that Lumi despite their dysfunction were made for each other.. I hate EJ and he should have died in 2007 as JER and others intended...We would have been rid of him years ago.. Sami was never the same after him and Rafe. 

Count me in on Team Lumi!  I never saw any heat between EJ & Sami, and don't like that the show is now presenting Sami's rapist as her OTP.

1 hour ago, DisneyBoy said:

I forgot to mention the death of Vivian. Obviously, this is not how I wanted her to go out, but considering she needed a get out of jail free card and Yvon is there to fake this and smuggle her out... I didn't really react. But now I'm thinking about it and Louise is very old and the show's future is in question. This could be it for her. I really hope it isn't though.

Vivian is a mere shell of who she was when she first came on the show in the early 1990s. (sigh) Those were the "days" (hahhaha) with her, Carly, Ivan, Nicky & Lawrence. For me, @1990 - 1994 was one of the best stretches of stories (admittedly, because I floved Carly/Lawrence) on DOOL.

[mariah23]

19 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Not that unusual. Apparently one of my cousins has two uteruses.

I have a cousin who has the same thing!

[Silver Raven]

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Remind me, why would Sami have a problem with Rafe adopting the child?  Didn't she leave him?

He slept with Carrie.

 

[Irlandesa]

3 minutes ago, Silver Raven said:

He slept with Carrie.

 

But wasn't that after they had split up?  During a break he had with Hope?

Edited July 17, 2020 by Irlandesa

[Sidney]

Did Gabi actually defend Stefan raping Abigail? Wow.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Sidney said:

Did Gabi actually defend Stefan raping Abigail? Wow.

Well, she admitted he wasn't perfect.  

[Harmony233]

29 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

But wasn't that after they had split up?  During a break he had with Hope?

Yes not sure how she even knew about him and Carrie honestly.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

... Ciara looked like all of the straps on her dress were going to strangle her. 

Well ...

I'm just gonna pretend Gabi didn't disregard Stefan raping Abigail because I love me some Gabi/Chad scenes. I thought BF played it so well (shocking lol) when he looked for a second like he wanted to comfort Gabi. Their dynamic is so good imo. Also, I love seeing Gabi in sweat pants and a normal shirt lol.

May Sami forever give Ben shit. As if I buy his bullshit about how guilty he feels. Whatever, bitch! Maybe if he wasn't treating Claire like shit and if he didn't look annoyed when people don't just automatically love him because he's 'better now' I would buy it but nah.

[Sidney]

1 hour ago, Katy M said:

Well, she admitted he wasn't perfect.  

Well, she was definitely right about that. He was one sick puppy.

[Pearson80]

31 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

May Sami forever give Ben shit. As if I buy his bullshit about how guilty he feels. Whatever, bitch! Maybe if he wasn't treating Claire like shit and if he didn't look annoyed when people don't just automatically love him because he's 'better now' I would buy it but nah.

Go Sami! Ben killed her baby so how else would anybody expect a mother to react.. Eve going after Ben should have been her story instead of her stupid obsession with Jack and Jennifer.. 

[DaphneCat]

5 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

Dear writers: you're only kidding yourselves if you think we're listening to all of these conversations Allie is having about her pregnancy and not noticing the same three aspects of it are being rehashed ad infinitum but obvious questions like how did you get pregnant and who's the father are never being sorted out.

 

Did Kayla, Eric and Ciara all plan their weddings within a 48-hour time period? It seems that way...

Sorry, forgot about this comment before.  Yes, after everything Will went through with Ari - WHY does no one even THINK to ask if she's SURE the father isn't going to show up and demand custody?

And yes!  Who waits until the NIGHT before their wedding to find out if their dress is OK - especially since she previously thought it was ruined?  And she had to wait, AGAIN until the night before the wedding to ask Rafe to walk her down the aisle?  

And yesterday, Eric just got a cake topper (EXACTLY like the one they had, apparently) within approximately 20 minutes?  Do all the bakeries in Salem simply bake two cakes for the inevitable cake fight?

[superdeluxe]

17 hours ago, DisneyBoy said:

I feel like we have had to watch Ciara and Ben screw each other every week for the last two years, so it was really nice to see Eric and Nicole get hot and heavy for s change. After all the hell they've been through, can they please have a weekly sex scene?

Please.  They have graphic love scenes all the time.  Didn’t they have one when they officially got back together or whatever?  I remember fast forwarding a similar scene.  All I said as I fast forwarded through the latest one was “No more of that”.

16 hours ago, nilyank said:

He and Sonny (dressed in a suit) went to a baseball game with Justin.

Technically, it’s not a full suit.  I’m pretty sure those are jeans he’s wearing.

What I want to know is why Sonny and Will were sitting so far apart?  Aren’t they supposed to be a loving, married couple?  They should’ve been right next to each other.

[Boomersbigmommy]

22 hours ago, Frozendiva said:

Not that unusual. Apparently one of my cousins has two uteruses.

As did I. I was a surviving twin and was born with her uterus and it was removed in 1984. Mom didn’t know 100% about the twin issue until my teen years because they didn’t do ultrasounds in 1967. I’m missing part of a lung and have an extra lobe of my liver.

[CanaryFan98]

3 hours ago, Harmony233 said:

Yes not sure how she even knew about him and Carrie honestly.

Eric walked in on them and Roman also found out afterwards. My guess is they told her

[TenaciousWarrior]

I was so happy that Sami didn’t accept Ben’s apology. I hope it sticks. Finally someone is allowed to hate him!

[DaphneCat]

OK, so apparently I spend WAY more time thinking about this show than I should.😚  I couldn't figure out WHY I was so irritated by Allie telling Will how Sami "ruined the wedding."  I realized that when Sami showed up, she wanted Allie to leave and go talk with her.  If Allie had simply sucked it up and acted like an adult, she would have said something along the lines of "I'm sorry, this was my fault (because it was, Eric and Nicole were going to invite Sami until Allie insisted they didn't).  Let's go somewhere and talk."  EVERYTHING that happened after that would have been avoided.  Instead, she acted like a little child and confronted Sami (along with her patented "someone needs to protect me from my mother" and DRAMATIC REVEAL.)  SHE was the one who "ruined the wedding."

Edited July 18, 2020 by DaphneCat
Spelling

[Frozendiva]

I doubt that Vivian is actually d-e-a-d dead. Ivan probably rescued her so she wouldn't serve jail time. And you'd think with such a popular villain, that the audience would get to see it.

Ciara, you always watch your drink in any bar. Not that Claire would put anything in it. No idea what she was wearing. It looked too complicated to put on.

Sad bachelor party for Ben when only the guy he killed once shows up. 

Jake may be Jake but now he is rich Jake, and more appealing to Gwen. Seriously, if she drank that much, she'd have alcohol poisoning.

Enjoyed Gabi going after Chad a bit. They do have some chemistry.

I agree that Allie is to blame for her mother's outburst - she behaved like a kid and she could have been calm and rational with her mom. Sami, you cannot force your adult daughter to not put her baby up for adoption. It is her choice to make.

[boes]

Wow.  Ben sure was trying on his best Eddie Haskell impression on Sami today.  Did he really think his variation of "Gee, Mrs. Cleaver, don't you look lovely today" was going to work on her?

Too bad Sami didn't have the time to give Ciara a personalized wedding gift.  A lava lamp made from Ben's personal parts would be something everyone could enjoy, with the added bonus of ensuring the Weston family line didn't extend any further than it already has.

Gwen can go any time, the sooner the better.

Poor Harold, the crap that man has to put up with.....next thing you know, Allie will be offering the baby to him.

Edited July 18, 2020 by boes

[DisneyBoy]

1 hour ago, boes said:

Too bad Sami didn't have the time to give Ciara a personalized wedding gift.  A lava lamp made from Ben's personal parts would be something everyone could enjoy, with the added bonus of ensuring the Weston family line didn't extend any further than it already has.

Remind me never to piss you off boes!

1 hour ago, Frozendiva said:

I doubt that Vivian is actually d-e-a-d dead. Ivan probably rescued her so she wouldn't serve jail time. And you'd think with such a popular villain, that the audience would get to see it.

I seem to recall Sami getting kidnapped by Andre, locked in a basement in the DiMera mansion, and then thinking to herself she might have a way out and then the audience never seeing her escape...only hearing about it afterwards. I hate it when they don't show stuff like that.

From its last few seasons, Smallville was nicknamed Offscreenville because so much took place between the scenes that they never bothered to film for budget reasons. Characters seemed to have better lives when they weren't in front of the cameras LOL

[SueB]

I'm completely TEAM CLAIRE.  I want a sincere apology for Ben when they figure out it's not her (no WAY is it Claire messing with the wedding). I loved her "girls night out outfit".  I used to loathe Claire.  It's amazing how they manage to shift things around.  Please note: just like I suspend 'reality' when it comes to artificial gravity in movie spaceships, I have to suspend reality ALOT when it comes to most Salem stories -- it's part of the soap opera genre -- so yes, I can actually like a character that under normal circumstances I can't imagine liking.

I'm glad Eric got the cake topper -- that helped.  

Yikes on the budget showing again -- a full repeat of the day before for the first 7 mins of the show.

Rafe had the patience of Job with Sami.   I'd pay real money to see ONE character stop a Sami tirade cold in her tracks. The scene are all:
1) Sami blusters in spouting half-truths and terrible accusations
2) Accused individual barely speaks while Sami bowls them over
3) When Sami FINALLY pauses, accused individual explains truth and Sami weakly apologizes with little real regret

With one exception:
- Sami DID listen to Ben and then called bullshit anyway.  I'll give her that as Ben literally MURDERED Will.  

OTOH, she cannot complain no one tells her anything because she literally doesn't listen until AFTER she's blown up at them.  

I just don't like them tolerating Sami's tirades and treating her like 'crazy Uncle Fred'.  It both enables her behavior and undermines her in one move.

BTW -- I think Allie is EVERYWHERE because they paid for the actress, they want to squeeze as many scenes out of her they can because she's probably relatively inexpensive, and they want everyone to have a stake in her well-being.  ITA with those who say that the father is going to be a big deal eventually. Even if it's not in the plans now, it's an open thread to pull later.

I liked Jake going to Ben for comfort.  

Ciara went from 'going to Mom's house' the night before to proudly stating she had a "Bachelorette Party" in about 20 mins (with Claire and a reluctant Allie).  It's like EACH wedding is designated two people to participate beyond the bride and groom.  

[peachmangosteen]

15 hours ago, superdeluxe said:

What I want to know is why Sonny and Will were sitting so far apart?  Aren’t they supposed to be a loving, married couple?  They should’ve been right next to each other.

There were already preparing for social distancing!

13 minutes ago, SueB said:

OTOH, she cannot complain no one tells her anything because she literally doesn't listen until AFTER she's blown up at them.  

lol good point.

[DaphneCat]

58 minutes ago, SueB said:

I'm completely TEAM CLAIRE.  I want a sincere apology for Ben when they figure out it's not her (no WAY is it Claire messing with the wedding).

Nope, it'll be some half-hearted, non-apology apology.  Ben will completely justify his being a total asshole to Claire.  Ciara will "righteously" preen over what a good, caring, trusting person she is - because only SHE was willing to give Claire the benefit of the doubt.

[pearlite]

Not sure of the dress-code for bachelorette parties myself. But would it include Claire's leather/pleather two-piecer? Okay, I like Claire, so she gets a pass.

But, Ciara sweetie, Elvira Mistress of the Cleavage?

[CanaryFan98]

16 hours ago, TenaciousWarrior said:

I was so happy that Sami didn’t accept Ben’s apology. I hope it sticks. Finally someone is allowed to hate him!

When Sami is the voice of reason you know its bad.

[Rafael]

On 7/17/2020 at 10:57 AM, bunnyblue said:

 

Today reminded me of how much I liked and rooted for Lumi once upon a time. Lucas just knows how to handle Sami, and she does listen to him sometimes. EJ DiMera was the worst thing to happen to them and if we never see him, Sydney, and Johnny on the show ever again that would be perfectly fine with me.

 

On 7/17/2020 at 7:55 PM, Pearson80 said:

Lumi all the way.. I was never a big fan of JER but he always knew that Lumi despite their dysfunction were made for each other.. I hate EJ and he should have died in 2007 as JER and others intended...We would have been rid of him years ago.. Sami was never the same after him and Rafe. 

I still think making EJ and Sami a fullblown couple was a mistake. they should have just had this forbidden lust /love/ hate/love  thing going on . Sydney's conception and grief hate love scene should have been it for them. Still think that Nick Fallon should have revealed that Johnny was Lucas's son afterall during his feud with Abby/EJ/Sami/Gabi . Afterall ,it was Nick who carried out the DNA test for those twins and there were various shenanugans with regards to the paternity of the kids.

 

EJ would have been better with Arianna to be honest. i think they had potential to be a super couple .  After EJ's death, they should have just reunited Lucas and Sami . keep EJ dead until James Scott decides to return . Also think Arianna can easily be revived by revealing that she survived being hit by that car and is now in witness protection programme. 

but the show has an opportunity right now to reunite Lucas and Sami  . just reveal that zombie EJ is not EJ afterall and that EJ is truly "dead".

Edited July 19, 2020 by Rafael

[CanaryFan98]

I actually preferred EJ with Nicole best but I would've been ok with EJ/Arianna.

I even didn't mind EJ/Abby during their affair.  I preferred EJ away from Sami above all else. 

[ByaNose]

Ciera’s outfit was quite something wasn’t it? It was like a bunch of stuff to make it look trashy looking and revealing. Overall, it was fugly but it’s her bachelorette party. LOL!!!! She also doesn’t have many friends. There was Claire the relative who try to set her on fire and her “cousin”, Allie (Is that right?). I guess having a murderer as a groom might have turned some of her friends off. I’m curious what her wedding dress will look like.

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

Ciera’s outfit was quite something wasn’t it? It was like a bunch of stuff to make it look trashy looking and revealing. 

That's all her outfits. They go way overboard with all the tackiness. Like, maybe just a choker would be OK, but a choker and fishnets and a sheer leotard and a leather skirt and thigh high boots, it's like we get it and it's enough!

[CanaryFan98]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

Ciera’s outfit was quite something wasn’t it? It was like a bunch of stuff to make it look trashy looking and revealing. Overall, it was fugly but it’s her bachelorette party. LOL!!!! She also doesn’t have many friends. There was Claire the relative who try to set her on fire and her “cousin”, Allie (Is that right?). I guess having a murderer as a groom might have turned some of her friends off. I’m curious what her wedding dress will look like.

I don't mind it revealing she's young and in her 20s its just ugly. 

Yes Allie is her second cousin since Hope/Lucas are cousins. They're also related through Sami as Sami/Ciara are cousins as well.

Marlena's bachelorette party a couple years back was better even if it was rather tame but given her age it makes sense.

Carrie's was the best one I've seen (there might've been others but I probably didn't watch it) where Austin and friends crashed their bachelorette party and gave a strip show. Caroline arranged it.

[MerBearStare]

So I watch Days on and off and I just started watching again when Kayla and Justin were supposed to get married and I know most of the characters, but who is Gwen and where did she come from? From what I've seen of her, it seems like she could be either really annoying or really hilarious. I haven't figured out which one yet.

Claire's and Ciara's bachelorette party outfits were A LOT (especially Ciara's). Perfect for going to a club, but not for sitting around Julie's Place (or whatever it's called). 

[boes]

1 hour ago, MerBearStare said:

So I watch Days on and off and I just started watching again when Kayla and Justin were supposed to get married and I know most of the characters, but who is Gwen and where did she come from? From what I've seen of her, it seems like she could be either really annoying or really hilarious. I haven't figured out which one yet.

All we know about Gwen so far, is that she's Jake's ex-girlfriend ( though not so ex lately), she stole some book from Jake that belonged to the mob who Jake worked for,  hid out in the mental hospital where she met Claire and is now in Salem.  

Edited July 19, 2020 by boes

[MerBearStare]

Thank you, @boes! I thought maybe she was a random Brady or Horton.

[Frozendiva]

1 hour ago, MerBearStare said:

Thank you, @boes! I thought maybe she was a random Brady or Horton.

Who knows? That may be the case at some point.

[Rafael]

Jake and Gwen are pathetic  they're all sex and no substance. Just like Gabi and Stefan . 

[CanaryFan98]

Of the newly created couples on this show you would be hard pressed to find any of them having any real substance. I would say Chabby might be the exception. The rest of the couples on the show that have substance are the established ones, Stayla, J&J, etc

[DisneyBoy]

Chabby had substance, ish, like five years ago.

...God, the storylines we've suffered through with those two since then...

 

[Rafael]

On 7/17/2020 at 10:07 PM, Silver Raven said:

He slept with Carrie.

 

What was the point of Carrie sleeping with Rafe if there wasnt going to be any fallout from their BS hookup?

[Harmony233]

4 hours ago, Rafael said:

What was the point of Carrie sleeping with Rafe if there wasnt going to be any fallout from their BS hookup?

Honestly I figured they would have had Carrie have rafe baby off screen.

[Rafael]

6 minutes ago, Harmony233 said:

Honestly I figured they would have had Carrie have rafe baby off screen.

hellll noooooooo !!!! hell nooooooooooo!!!!

Carlivati better not dare go down that route !! but then again ,i wouldnt put it past that hack.

[Pearson80]

7 hours ago, Rafael said:

What was the point of Carrie sleeping with Rafe if there wasnt going to be any fallout from their BS hookup?

Exactly! it just made Hope look pathetic being with Rafe, given his affinity for her nieces, yuck!

On 7/19/2020 at 7:04 AM, CanaryFan98 said:

Of the newly created couples on this show you would be hard pressed to find any of them having any real substance. I would say Chabby might be the exception. The rest of the couples on the show that have substance are the established ones, Stayla, J&J, etc

Why can't the characters just enjoy casual sexual relationships. not all relationships result in marriage.  I think As The World Turns is the only soap that used to show people having flings without any shame or judgments, what two consenting adults do, is nobody's business.  Soaps used to so progressive in so many ways back in the day..

Edited July 20, 2020 by Pearson80

[kitmerlot1213]

So Vivian is still alive!  Apparently Dr. Rolf has some competition from Dr. Wu who it seems is just as adept at faking deaths  🙂  I did like the scenes between Jake and Kate--no doubt her retelling of Viv's life was damn entertaining-- and then Jake and Gabi-.  Now that the specter of his being Stefan is off the table their interactions feel loaded with possibilities, though I do wonder how she can keep denying Stefan raped Abigail though.

I truly hope Ciara continues to be sick as a dog for her big day and I hope Claire realizes she's better off then trying to win over her entitled, hypocritical aunt.  There is zero proof that Claire sabotaged anything but CIara and Ben are acting as if they have Claire dead to rights, instead of just suspicions and accusations.  But don't worry Marlena was there to lend a hand to Ben and calm his fears where as she continues to stare suspiciously at Claire.

[DaphneCat]

40 minutes ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

So Vivian is still alive!  Apparently Dr. Rolf has some competition from Dr. Wu who it seems is just as adept at faking deaths  🙂  I did like the scenes between Jake and Kate--no doubt her retelling of Viv's life was damn entertaining-- and then Jake and Gabi-.  Now that the specter of his being Stefan is off the table their interactions feel loaded with possibilities, though I do wonder how she can keep denying Stefan raped Abigail though.

I truly hope Ciara continues to be sick as a dog for her big day and I hope Claire realizes she's better off then trying to win over her entitled, hypocritical aunt.  There is zero proof that Claire sabotaged anything but CIara and Ben are acting as if they have Claire dead to rights, instead of just suspicions and accusations.  But don't worry Marlena was there to lend a hand to Ben and calm his fears where as she continues to stare suspiciously at Claire.

This!

I suspected Vivian's death was fake.  It was far too convenient.  But, I'm glad that there is at least the hope she'll come back and wreak havoc.

Marlena was FINALLY making progress by telling Allie that she was being a brat and then she had to go and ruin it.  After LITERALLY voicing her trust in Ben - a serial killer (I guess that's because she thinks she's just such a whiz-bang therapist/judge of character that, of course she's right about him) she tells her own GRANDDAUGHTER that, of course, the serial killer should be suspicious of her.  Somehow, she has complete faith in her judgement of a serial killer but doubts her judgement when it comes to her own granddaughter.

Since I don't believe for an instant that it's Claire, I wonder if anyone will bother to apologize to her.  Ciara may graciously deign for "forgive" her (for what I'm not sure) but I can't see her ever issuing a sincere apology.

[Harmony233]

Ciaras  symptoms seem more like with pregnancy than poisoning the fainting but whose to say she just doesn't have a stomach bug kinda silly to rush to the conclusion that she was posioned.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Harmony233

[Katy M]

15 minutes ago, Harmony233 said:

Ciaras  symptoms seem more like with pregnancy than poisoning the fainting but whose to say she just doesn't have a stomach bug kinda silly to rush to the conclusion that she was posioned.

You're using real world probablities as opposed to Salem. I'd assume poisoning also.

[Rafael]

On 7/17/2020 at 8:16 PM, CanaryFan98 said:

I'm ok with this being her exit granted I wanted more of a bang if she was going to die it should've been at the hands of Carly or even Kate. 

 i hate how they butchered her relationship with John , the very nephew she buried at her own expense during his faux funeral in 2007 .all ruined for plot by having her conveniently treat Isabella's ashes like they were trash knowing full well what Isabella meant to the men she  loved -Victor and John . also the contrieved existence of Stefan , Quinn and jake completely undermined her relationships with Lawrence ,Nicholas and John and how she treated them like her own sons . because Vivian didnt have her own kids ,she projected all her maternal instincts onto Lawrence,John and Nicholas . but nah , TIIC and their hack writers created these contrieved sons and stripped vivian of her original substance . Vivian is not an outright villain.  with stefano gone ,Vivian should be one of those zany characters who return from time to time to raise some hell . 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Rafael

[Rafael]

4 hours ago, Pearson80 said:

Exactly! it just made Hope look pathetic being with Rafe, given his affinity for her nieces, yuck!

Why can't the characters just enjoy casual sexual relationships. not all relationships result in marriage.  I think As The World Turns is the only soap that used to show people having flings without any shame or judgments, what two consenting adults do, is nobody's business.  Soaps used to so progressive in so many ways back in the day..

sounds to me like you want everybody to take part in the bedhopping olympics . perhaps to compete for fourth place because the top 3 spots are already occupied by Kate (gold medalist) ,Nicole (silver medalist ) and Brady (bronze ).

[JBC344]

16 minutes ago, Rafael said:

 i hate how they butchered her relationship with John , the very nephew she buried at her own expense during his faux funeral in 2007 .all ruined for plot by having her conveniently treat Isabella's ashes like they were trash knowing full well what Isabella meant to the men she loves -Victor and John . also the contrieved existence of Stefan , Quinn and jake completely undermined her relationships with Lawrence and John and how she treated the like her own sons . because Vivian didnt have her own kids ,she projected all her maternal instincts on Lawrence,John and Nicholas . but nah , TIIC na their hack writers created these contrieved sons and stripped vivian of her original substance . Vivian is not an outright villain. with stefano gone ,Vivian should be one of those zany characters who return from time to time to raise some hell . 

Thank you!!!!!! I've been incredibly disappointed by the way they have written the Vivian character the last few years. 

Vivian's grounding has mostly come from her relationships with her nephews, Lawrence, Forrest (John), and Nicky. She even used to have a close relationship with Lucas. Back when she originally "killed" Kate. 

Outside of them Ivan and Celeste were her closest friends and confidants.

They threw all those relationships and character building out the window when they decided to retcon her with now three biological sons. I also hated when they retconned her close "surrogate mother" relationship with an adult Phillip that never existed on the show before.

 

[RunningMarket]

Ciara can't possibly be pregnant! Because... you can't get pregnant during shower sex? 🙄