S19.E09: Week 7: Halloween

[LadyMustang65]

Overall, I enjoyed the show.  I didn't think it was the greatest night of dancing, but Halloween theme night is always just so fun.  I had been really looking forward to Len's return, but I found myself getting rather annoyed with him and his issue with "mucking" about and having others in the dances.  Normally, I would agree with him, but it's Halloween theme night, and if there's one time the contestants/pros should be able to have some fun, it's this night.  It was not a night to be cranky.  Boo, Len.

Loved the troupe dancer hiding in the fridge.  Some of those reactions were great.  Also loved the guy sneaking up behind Cheryl while she was talking to Erin.  Cheryl's reaction was hysterical.  And Alfonso's was so unexpected!    That's the fun of live tv -  you never know what's going to happen.

 

Tommy - He continues to be charming, but he's not so much fun to watch any more.  That quickstep really wasn't.

 

Lea - It was good choreography and a good performance, but I just didn't really feel it with her like I used to.  The 'fun' wasn't there again - I think she was trying too hard to do well, and so she missed out on the joy.  Shame.

 

Bethany - I honestly didn't like this dance.  I couldn't tell you whether I thought Bethany danced well or not because I kept losing her in the drums.  And there were times I didn't see Derek at all.  I ended up getting caught up in watching the 'dance' the drummers were doing.  Hit a beat here, move the drum over there, hit a few more beats, move the drums again.  I liked the idea behind the choreography, but the execution was just somehow lacking for me, and the only thing I really remember about that dance was watching the drums navigate out of the way of the dancers.

 

Antonio - I thought this was the best he's danced, and I was annoyed with the judges for the low scores.  He was better than that.  The judges have said before that they judge the dancers against themselves and their expectations for them, so there was no justification in my mind for more 7s.  He has definitely been improving each week; they could have given him an 8 outside of the team dance.  I feel bad for him.  He was a good sport and tried hard every week.  The upside is that Cheryl can now go visit her dad before the finale.

 

Michael - can people just please for the love of God stop voting for him?  The man is in his 40s to Tommy's 76, but Tommy has far more pep in his step than Michael can seem to muster.  That jive was horrendous, and I got really tired of listening to him excuse his poor performance with "I can't."  How would you know?  Did you even try?

 

Janel - this was one of my favorites of the night.  I don't know enough VW to know whether Len was right or not when he said it was a beautiful flowing 3/4 time dance but not a VW, but for me it was a beautiful flowing dance with rise and fall and plenty of turns.  I didn't think they took overly long to get started, and it did set things up nicely.  I loved the choreography, and I thought Janel danced it beautifully.  It wasn't 10-worthy, but that 7 from Len was crap.

 

Alfonso - I am the odd man out here, but this rumba did nothing for me.  Something just felt 'off' to me - I don't know if it was his posture or what.  I also didn't see a lot of hip action - it was there in places and in others not so much.  This is probably my least favorite of his dances, even though I love this partnership.  And I did appreciate that Alfonso took the time to praise the singer.  That was nice.  And congratulations to him and his wife on the new baby.  Also loved Tom's quip right after the announcement. 

 

Sadie - First off, let me say that Mark looked incredible.  Whoever did that makeup did a fantastic job.  And I actually loved the choreography and would love to see that done with one of the female pros in the lead.  But Sadie just could not handle this dance at all.  Her hands were weird at the beginning - kind of splayed open.  She couldn't get the right 'feel' for the paso.  She looked more mad than intense, and her dancing just wasn't good this time.  For me it was just all wrong.  I loved the concept and really would love to see it done with someone who could dance the crap out of it.  I think it could have been great.  But this was just not a good dance for Sadie at all, and I thought the judges were kind with their scoring.

 

Team ItsyBitsy - The dance was well done, and even Michael didn't screw it up, but I'm feeling a kind of 'sameness' with Derek's team dances.  Clearly he knows what the judges want with that 'military style' precision, but it's beginning to feel like variations on a theme for me.

 

Team Creepy - I actually enjoyed this dance much more.  From a precision standpoint, they were not in sync the way TIB was, but I just really liked the different personalities and characters in the dance.  Much the same way I preferred Team BomBom (or whatever they were called) over Team Foxing Awesome a few seasons ago.  I can look at it objectively and say that one was danced better than the other, but also that one was far more fun to watch than the other, and they weren't the same teams for both.

[ari333]

Tommy Chong looks damn good. And oddly, he's making me almost like Peta. So wow.

I'm finding Witney more adorable as time goes on. Cute, curvy, sexy figure [/jealous] And "Do you want a snack?" after a dude gets socked in the nads - has to be one of the funniest lines ever.

A team being dressed alike kind of helps the visual thing for me. Maybe that was deliberate. Derek seems pretty savvy about tricky things that work.

I know it's hard, but it's only a dang dance show. No one's being taken out back and shot. I'm tired of the crying.

I guess I'm a pushover because I always enjoy the Halloween shows. So there's that. Boo!

Len's, "I'm BAAaaaaaacckkk" was fun.

Lea's legs are hot. I wish she wouldn't dance so tentatively. I just want to scream, "Let LOOSE woman!!" Still lovely imo.

[judemorrigan]

Regarding Val and Janel and whether or not they spent enough time in frame - watch some pro or championship smooth. You'll have plenty of shadow position or alternative hold (the latter of which Val had in the routine with the open naturals - which is bog standard), but very little closed hold.

Of all the pros, I find Val's choreography to be most evocative of current dancesport trends. There was quite a bit in there that was also is my own silver smooth Viennese.

[sinkwriter]

I liked the concept of Mark's dance with Sadie, but I think there were some details missing that would have made it better. For example, why have it be zombies versus a young girl with a teddy bear? What causes her to suddenly dance with them? As visually cool as it was to have everyone all zombified, I think they needed something in between that showed the transition from Sadie's character running from them to suddenly dancing with them / against them (instead of being terrified). Was she fighting back or was she scared? I didn't really get it.

 

Maybe if Mark hadn't been a zombie, maybe it would have made more sense. If he'd been a vampire, for example, his character might have had some sort of hypnotic effect on her, where she is suddenly entranced into dancing the paso with him. But the way it was set up, something was missing. I didn't see an understandable shift from this little girl skipping along with a teddy bear to whatever character she was when she was dancing the paso moves which tend to be not little-girl-like.

 

I did love Mark dancing with the zombies, though. Very Thriller-like.

Edited October 28, 2014 by sinkwriter

[truthaboutluv]

although I liked Derek's team dance, it didn't have at least one 'wow' factor that it usually does.

 

 

I agree (and it doesn't help that I hate all things Iggy Azalea) about there not being a wow moment which is probably why they only got 9's. That being said, the other team dance in my opinion didn't have any wow moment either and added to that, they weren't in sync. I mean they dressed up as circus characters and played to that - okay then. I get that some thought it was more fun but honestly, I actually found it messy rather than fun. But still I get that some enjoyed it more and I get the argument that Derek always seems to go for the precision style but again, I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

Maybe if the judges and show starts stating specifically what they're looking for in the team dances, viewers can better pick it apart because honestly, for me, I do think synchronicity and cohesiveness should be key because they are performing as a team. It's like the moment in Itsy Bitsy's rehearsal when Derek says to everyone that when they are dancing all together, no one should throw in a little bit of flair or their own thing because they need to think and move as a team. Because really that's what the individual sections for each pairing are for, so they can all showcase what strengths and talent. But when they come together, it should look like you're watching one unit. I didn't get that from Team Creepy. 

Edited October 28, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[sinkwriter]

I definitely agree with you - I think that's what Team Creepy was missing, that cohesive team element, and that's definitely where Team Itsy Bitsy (and Derek as choreographer) excelled. I like the power of a well-choreographed dance where everyone is in sync together. I wish Team Creepy had had that during their full team dance moments, then I think they would have had it all, the cohesion plus the cleverness and vibrancy of the individual circus act moments.

On a side note, I liked seeing that part where Derek played drill instructor to Bethany on practicing that one dance move over and over again, and kept talking about repetition repetition repetition. I can see how he's a strong teacher, if he's like that all the time. I do think there are moments where he'd eventually need to lighten up on that and focus on the emotion of the dance, but in getting his student to learn the dance itself and feel comfortable enough with knowing the moves so that they can concentrate more on letting go on performance night, I think he seems very good as a teacher. I was impressed.

[iMonrey]

Of all the people who got pranked by the guy (Sasha?) hiding in the refrigerator, everyone had a good sense of humor about it . . . except for Val. He just acted really pissed off. And this further cements my long-held impression, that Val is utterly devoid of humor and personality. On the opposite end of the spectrum, clearly Cheryl was the favorite target of the pranksters this week. She demonstrated that the show is on a time delay when they bleeped her yelling "Shit!" up in the skybox. Love her.

 

I guess I just don't understand this weird, obsessive Nascar fan base Michael has, and why they vote for him despite the fact that he cannot dance, at all. Most of them probably don't even watch the show. It's the inherent flaw in the formula. I saw him attempt exactly one kick in that entire routine and even that was half-assed. And clearly, 5 is the lowest paddle the judges are willing to wield, because that should have actually gotten 2s and 3s. Hell, Michael might as well just sit his ass down on the stage for the whole 90 second routine because his fans are going to keep him in this thing until the bitter end.

 

It's going to be horrifying if the final three are Michael, Tommy and Bethany.

 

I'm admittedly no expert, but I expected Alfonso and Witney to be dinged for not having continuous, flowing movement in their rumba. I was floored when the judges called it a "proper rumba" because I saw an awful lot of starting and stopping in between poses, and I've seen couples get criticized for this very error in the past. Maybe the judges were just impressed they had no troupe members or props like the other couples did.

 

I think it's kind of bullshit that Sadie "had" to fly home to tape an episode of Duck Dynasty because from what I gather she's only barely on that show. Clearly they wanted to incorporate her participation in DWTS and I felt kind of bad for Mark (although his obsessive love of over the top costumes was at least sated this week - those contacts were scary.)

 

I think Antonio was kind of over it anyway. He was a little defensive with the judges about doing it for the fans and his family and "the man upstairs." Mind you, I don't blame him. It would cheese me off to see Michael and Tommy outlast me too if I were trying as hard as Antonio has been.

 

I'm a little confused about whether Alfonso was announcing that he and his wife are planning to have another baby (since he said "I just hope this still works") or whether she's already expecting. It seemed like an odd announcement, either way, because if she is already expecting she isn't very far along.

[limecoke]

Sorry all.  I'm a NASCAR fan but I am NOT voting for Michael.  Frankly, I wouldn't vote for him for anything because he's always been a mouthy, un-funny sort of famewhore who never saw a camera he didn't try to hog.  It's the truth, no matter how humble and "Ah shucks" he tries to be on the show.  Unfortunately, a lot of NASCAR fans are voting for the Waltrip name and it didn't help that in the clip they showed at Talledega, he hauled out Dale "The Most Popular Driver in the History of Ever" Earnhardt, Jr., to goose up the votes.  If Junior Nation is strongly behind him, look out.  (Yes, folks, there is a Junior Nation.)

 

The surety of the Derek team win is getting boring.  Yeah, I get how they won but I was far more entertained by Team Creepy.  

 

Completely, 100% agree with Len about all the mucking about, extra dancers, props and nonsense.  Just put on a costume and dance so the judges can judge the dance and not get all distracted by the smoke and mirrors.  Does someone know if "Strictly" does this or is it still about the pure dance?  

Edited October 28, 2014 by limecoke

[Fliz]

Loved the troupe dancer hiding in the fridge.  Some of those reactions were great.

I loved that, too - especially when he scared Val, who was NOT amused.

[Palomar]

Obviously there is one judge too many if there isn't time for all 4 to comment.  I know Julianne was the darling of DWTS during her dancing days (and I liked her as a dancer too) but wouldn't it work better if she was the fill-in judge for when Len was gone. Plus, you can see the tension when Julianne gives her criticism.  It's almost like when one of your co-workers is suddenly your boss. 

 

For Antonio to get worse scores than Tommy was just wrong.

[SnarkyTart]

Tonight was the first episode of the season where I gave Bethany the win.  Derek's concept, staging, costuming and choreography were fantastic and Bethany did a great job with the paso attitude and frames.  This was also the first night where she seemed to own the performance aspect of the dance.  Loved it.  I think Bethany may be peaking at just the right time.

 

Second for me tonight were Janel and Val.  Again, the concept and staging were beautifully done.  Val's choreography was quite good, though I have to agree with Len that it might have lacked a little bit in the Viennese aspects of the Waltz.   While Val was not overdancing Janel, I confess to having a hard time taking my eyes off of him tonight during that dance.  My goodness, but that man can dance a perfectly beautiful waltz!  Oh, and I can't even with Janel's hideous shoes...again!  It's hard to see if she really can't finish her leg extensions and point her toes, or if those hideous booties make her ankle too rigid to flex her foot.  

 

Sadie and Mark - just no.  Sadie was in my top 2 for the first 4 weeks of the show.  Her charleston and her rumba dropped her below third place for me overall, and last night's "paso" was, for me, her worst performance so far.  Sadie looked uncomfortable, under-rehearsed, and technically incorrect throughout the entire routine.   Just last week I was praising Mark for reining in his ego and allowing his celebrity partner to be the star of his choreography.  With last night's staging, costuming and choreography, everything that ever bugs me about Mark was on garish display.  The only thing missing were his old Spats of Doom.  On a theme night that nearly demands excess, Mark easily won the prize for best make-up and costume, without a single close contender.  I simply don't think it should be that way.

 

I felt so bad for Alfonso and his rumba last night.  To me, his injuries were glaringly obvious during the dance, even though Witney did a great job trying to compensate with her choreography.  Through no fault of his own, for me this was Alfonso's worst night so far.  Since he's been my pick to win the MBT by a wide mile, I hope he can recover enough to go all out again in the coming weeks.  His dancing has been the only real high point of this season for me, and I'm afraid not even the offer of a snack will make up for it.

 

Once again, I forgot Lea's routine almost before she completed it.  I just don't enjoy her dancing and she continues to be entirely forgettable for me. 

 

Waltripping pissed me off, but that's nothing new.  No matter how much I've begged the viewer voters to send him home (for 7 weeks now!), his Nascar fans laugh and scorn me (figuratively speaking, of course).  Tommy is tired and ready to go home, but I want him to outlast stupid Waltripping.  Please?

 

As for the team dances, I agreed with the judges' scoring and their comments. 

Edited October 28, 2014 by SnarkyTart

[skittl3862]

I suspect next week, if Michael isn't voted off legitimately, we'll get an announcement that Michael has injured himself and is withdrawing from the competition. I feel bad that his fans are only making him look worse for keeping him around when he's clearly out of his league now. Even Bristol Palin was better than this.

 

I'm not anti-Derek. He's a great choreographer and does a good job of adapting to his partner's strengths and weaknesses. I just wish the producers and judges and whoever else is involved in these decisions would stop letting him coast. Give him an actual challenge. Give Derek the partner they would usually stick Tony with- the 70 year old or the reality stars with the bad attitude.

 

I think scores like last night actually minimize Derek's talent when he gets a near-perfect score for a flawed performance and no one calls him out on it. Betheny's dance was not worthy of perfect 10s and no criticism. Maybe if they hadn't started Betheny out at 8s week 1 and a perfect score week 3, they wouldn't have to constantly bring out the 10s to appreciate her improvement. 10s used to mean something on this show. 

 

I agree with Len's opinion in general, but his production rants should have been saved for next week instead of the Halloween episode. This is the one week where I want to see it.

[ChicksDigScars]

If Junior Nation is strongly behind him, look out.  (Yes, folks, there is a Junior Nation.)

 

If DWTS wants to amp up the ratings, THAT is who they should got after for next season. (cue weekly comments about Dale Sr. rolling in his grave) Trouble is that NASCAR has such a long season that it overlaps both the fall and spring TV seasons. Isn't Waltrip a part time racer? Dale Junior is definitely full time. 

Edited October 28, 2014 by ChicksDigScars

[fishcakes]

Spats of Doom

 

Ha. Every time someone else wears spats on the show, I expect Mark to run on stage and try to forcibly remove them.

 

I really liked the zombie concept for Sadie and Mark's dance, but Sadie's tentativeness was obvious. Even her claps were sort of mushy. Since in the Paso, the woman represents the bull who has to be tamed, I think it would have worked better if Mark had made Sadie the zombie with himself as the innocent kid walking through the woods. It might have helped her get into the character of the dance more. (Now I'm picturing Mark stamping his feet and saying, "NO NO NO NO I'M THE ZOMBIE!")

 

The ending to Janel and Val's Viennese Waltz was a carbon copy of the ending to Derek and Ricki Lake's Tango to the Psycho theme. I hope Val at least mentioned it to Derek beforehand, since no one on the show seemed to acknowledge it after.

 

I have to agree with the judges on the group dances. I liked the circus theme of Team Creepy better, but the group parts were out of sync and the individual parts were pretty meh. It looked like they all went off to do their own thing first and then figured they could somehow stitch it all together. Team Itsy (or whatever they were called) looked more like they worked top-down; setting the group theme first and then everyone fitting their individual dances into it. The only person who looked out of place was Michael, but at least they could stick him in the back and pump out the fog during his segment. Good work, fog machine!

[sinkwriter]

 

Since in the Paso, the woman represents the bull who has to be tamed, I think it would have worked better if Mark had made Sadie the zombie with himself as the innocent kid walking through the woods.

 

I also wondered how it would have worked if they had switched roles, but then I wondered if Sadie's family would have been cool with her playing a zombie (or any undead creature of the night, LOL).

[Linderhill]

Poor Tommy and Waltrip really, really need to go home.  Like last week.  Its getting as bad a when Billy Rae Cyrus and Cloris Leachman were on and just would not go away.  I think Billy Ray deliberately tanked his dances and still they kept him on.  And then there was Wayne Newton, another one kept past his expiration date.  I fully agree with those commenters on the fact that Antonio wasn't the greatest, but he sincerely tried.  He tried so much harder than Waltrip and his waltz was his best dance.  Tommy is just tired and beat down now but he's at least trying.

 

Thank you Len for coming back!  and thank you for your faffing about comments.  It isn't the finals, its not the freestyle, dance the assigned dance.  I wonder what he thinks of the increasingly poor music selection.  Its been awful just like the crappy camera work.

[limecoke]

If DWTS wants to amp up the ratings, THAT is who they should got after for next season. (cue weekly comments about Dale Sr. rolling in his grave)

Can't happen due to the Sprint Cup schedule.  Junior races every race, February through November and Waltrip races only a couple of restrictor plate races.  Besides, I don't think Junior would do it.

 

I expect Michael will go in the next couple of weeks.  Hope so, anyway.  

Edited October 28, 2014 by limecoke

[Padma]

I was looking forward to Len, but he had to ruin it by how much he hates any kind of creative staging and drama (unless, of course, it's done by Derek. There's no way I believe that paso would have gotten two 7's if Derek had been the choreographer. It was ambitious and pretty great under the circumstances of their travels, etc. Sadie seemed overwhelmed this week--understandably--but the concept was good. Also, as Julianne mentioned a couple of weeks back, Mark suddenly seems in sync with his partner and not trying to keep all eyes on him. I'm sorry he isn't getting rewarded with better comments and scores.)

 

Len, I've watched two straight hours of competitive professional ballroom dancing on television and it can get mind-numbingly dull, sorry.

 

Alfonso is one of my favorites, but I couldn't see that his rumba had anything whatsoever to do with Halloween. They could have done that any week, any time.

[JenLily]

I thought Team Creepy was a lot of fun but part of what I love about the team dances is when they move in sync, and Team Itsy Bitsy nailed that. The individual dances are always fun but I get that every week. I want to see how they perform in unison. Yes, Derek's choreography for the team dances is a bit formulaic but it's a formula that works in this context.  Precision is what the judges look for in a team dance, and precision is what he gives them.

 

Poor Antonio. I wanted him to go but only because he bored me and it was a little uncomfortable watching him. Granted, someone else should've gone before him. . .

 

Ugh, Michael. You could actually *see* him decide to give up during the dance. It was painful to watch and he seriously should be the next one out after this performance. At least Tommy has rhythm and really tries, even during dances that you just know are hard on his body, like this week's quickstep. Yes, he wasn't great but the effort he put forth was leaps and bounds away from what Michael did.

 

Lea's a lovely dancer but her Argentine tango left me really cold this week. It was technically proficient but it was missing the arrogance and passion that it needed to really thrill me. Chest out, shoulders back, chin up, strong arms and it really would've been beautiful.

 

I think Derek did Bethany a disservice in her paso this week. She actually did quite a good job but the extra people and the drums were very distracting. I had to watch it twice to really focus on what Bethany was doing. She was great. Her posture and frame were good, her movements were strong, her skirt work was beautiful. But if I had to watch it twice to see her, then I can't imagine what the judges were looking at. The performance was cool, I'll grant you, but she didn't deserve 10s. She did well but it wasn't perfect, and Derek missed a great opportunity to show everyone what she could do. I thought it was pretty telling when I was discussing last night's show with a co-worker that he remembered the dance but couldn't place who Bethany was until I reminded him.

 

Sadie's paso, on the other hand, was just not good. She seemed very uncertain of the steps and the character of the dance, and her gawkiness was even more apparent in her arms as she just kept throwing them around. There was no purposeful movement here and the paso is where I expect to see strength and bravado. Even her skirt work was weak, especially compared to Bethany's. I don't even think her hesitation was due to the character Mark chose for her, I think she just wasn't comfortable with this particular dance. Her scores were accurate.

 

I actually really liked Janel and Val's dance. I agree with whoever it was upthread who said it had a lot of American Smooth Vienesse waltz content, although yes it probably could've done with a little more in traditional hold to appease traditional Len.  :) Janel moved beautifully and she has such personality when she dances. The story of the dance was lovely as well, without needing all the pomp and circumstance that other pros put into their dance. I thought they were terribly underscored.

 

I loved Alfonso and Witney last night. I thought he did a great job with his rumba, and rumba is a dance that I detest. I always look for hip movement in the rumba, especially from the men, and he definitely had it. And not that frantic hip jutting that some people do (bam-bam-bam, side-side-side), it was actually smooth and rhythmic. If he doesn't win this season it'll be a real shame. He's a talent, that one. And lordy, did I laugh and laugh when Witney asked him if he wanted a snack after she kneed him in the crotch. I actually rewound that and watched it again because she cracked me up so much. Snacks do make lots of things better.  :)

 

Edited to add:  Does anyone else get the feeling that this season is a transitional one for the judges?  It seems to me like they're grooming Julianne to replace Len.

Edited October 28, 2014 by JenLily

[crowceilidh]

And for that matter, how cool would Sadie's family have been with her doing "the pelvic thrust" had they actually done the Time Warp?  I went back and watched the Time Warp (the real one) and was completely impressed by how many references were choreo'd into that group dance given that they were doing a carnival theme at the same time.  I looked at Team Creepy's version and thought that their unison was just fine when called for.  They did what the original does in the movie where they used sequential dance moves a lot -- which, hey, is derivative of the original. I am still totally pissed that they didn't get higher marks.

[sinkwriter]

 

And lordy, did I laugh and laugh when Witney asked him if he wanted a snack after she kneed him in the crotch. I actually rewound that and watched it again because she cracked me up so much. Snacks do make lots of things better.  :)

 

It's still funny to me. All I have to do is see the word "snack" and I start laughing again.

[truthaboutluv]

10s used to mean something on this show.

 

 

This is the second time I've read this and as a person who has watched this show since the first season, I genuinely ask, when exactly did 10 mean something so special on this show? For perspective, Kelly Monaco's freestyle got a perfect 30 in the first season. Yeah, youtube that dance and see how many errors she made in it. This show has always inflated scores the deeper into the season it goes. Also, the show unlike its British and Australian counterparts have actually always been fairly generous with the scores. As someone noted above, frankly Michael deserved 1 or 2's considering the man literally did not do a Jive at all. The 5's were actually generous. 

 

Give him an actual challenge.

 

 

Like somebody with two prosphetic legs or a plus size woman or an ex-con rapper that many people thought was ghetto or a nervous headcase like Jennie Garth? And as I always say to the "Derek hasn't gotten a 70 year old", "call me when Val and/or Mark gets one."

 

The only person who looked out of place was Michael, but at least they could stick him in the back and pump out the fog during his segment. Good work, fog machine!

 

 

What I loved the most about that was how they didn't even try to pretend that's not what they did and even Micheal realized in rehearsal and pointed out to Emma that they put him in the back where no one could really see him.

 

And then there was Wayne Newton, another one kept past his expiration date.

 

 

I think Wayne only lasted three weeks (I may be wrong), so not so bad. For me it's like when Sara Evans competed and her fanbase was rabid. I really think if she hadn't pulled herself out of the competition, her fanbase would have carried her to the finals and the woman sucked. But what was most annoying about her was that she was one of those delusional celebrities - the ones who suck but are convinced they don't and that the judges are underscoring them. Man never did I celebrate more a celebrity pulling out of the competition.

Edited October 28, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[tearbender]

Like somebody with two prosphetic legs or a plus size woman or an ex-con rapper that many people thought was ghetto or a nervous headcase like Jennie Garth? And as I always say to the "Derek hasn't gotten a 70 year old", "call me when Val and/or Mark gets one."

 

I love how these two women in particular are trotted out as proof as Derek's "challenging" partners. Very telling. And pointing out any favoritism Derek receives always leads to automatic finger pointing at Mark, and now recently Val.

 

Cheryl is long overdue for a break IMO, but I hope she isn't leaving the show for good.

[sinkwriter]

 

Cheryl is long overdue for a break IMO, but I hope she isn't leaving the show for good.

 

I second that. I like Cheryl! She's a terrific dancer and she's smart ass and funny.

[truthaboutluv]

I love how these two women in particular are trotted out as proof as Derek's "challenging" partners. Very telling. And pointing out any favoritism Derek receives always leads to automatic finger pointing at Mark, and now recently Val.

 

 

Answering in Derek's thread...

Edited October 28, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[Uke]

Opener: One of the better opening dances. Anyone know who choreographed it?

 

Tommy:  A few problems but very enjoyable to watch. Scores were fair. Love seeing this side of Peta this season.

 

Lea:  She has all the ability but she's still too stuck in her head and all the doubtful thoughts rattling around in there. Artem should be helping her relax and enjoy but he's stressing about judges' comments.  The 9s were too high. All 8s would be right.

 

Bethany: She has the appearance to pull off the sultry look or the Malificent fierceness but  it just doesn't come out. She just looked stressed both in the package and in the dance.  My attention kept being drawn to watching the drums constantly moving around and repositioning, which I guess was the point.  Also, I was aware of the camera moving with the drums to keep Bethany in the shot, but the judges weren't moving, so unless they were watching on tv monitors, their view had to have been obstructed. No obvious errors but no feeling of fierceness or connection. I keep wondering if she's actually enjoying this. Overscored. 9s would be generous.

 

Antonio: Dull Dull Dull but ironically this was his best dance. Light on his feet, less stiff, a little trouble with the spin at the end but no glaring errors. I got the feeling he was relieved to go.  The 6 was too low. 7s would have been fine. On his trajectory, I wouldn't have minded one 8.

 

Michael:  My heart aches for Emma, she's blaming herself.  Emma, you are NOT failing. Michael just can't dance. I didn't see any jive in that dance. I think Emma put the steps in, but Michael just seemed to start then thought "oh never mind that" and went on to the next move. The 5s were generous but if they were designed to give him the boot, they messed it up with the 9s in the team dance.  They should have given him 3s or 4s on the assumption that Derek would continue his winning streak with the team dances.  Michael's going to have to signal to his fans that enough is enough (of course he won't) because the judges just aren't scoring him low enough.

 

Janel: Loved the song (I've never seen PLL so I'd never heard it before). I enjoyed the story of the dance. The dance seemed awfully short given the startup and ending bits and the ending used too much time: Janel runs across the floor, up the stairs, puts on her hood as Val walks across the floor and up the stairs as Janel pulls the curtain + bonks him on the head. That whole sequence should have been tighted up - eliminate the stairs and have them both move to opposite sides of the window at the same time. Anyway, I enjoyed this as a performance piece.  Her tendency to stop short on her moves was very evident. Len's "Plunker"? I don't know what that means but name-calling is out of line.  The 7 was too low. 8s would have been fine and wouldn't have minded a 9.

 

Note: this is a Halloween-themed show. Over-the-top cheesy is expected (at least by me!).  I disagreed with Julianne and whoever else complained about getting too caught up in the Halloween theme.  Why bother having a Halloween themed night then complain when the dances are in the theme.  For Janel I would have been disappointed if she'd done a strictly-by-the-book VW.  Critiques should have been specific to content/technique only tonight.

 

Alfonso: Best line of the night: "What do you need? A snack?" LOL!!!  Not his best dance. I did see occasional attempts at hip action but mostly there was alot of standing in place while Witney danced furiously around him.  Sorry. Love Alfonso but I didn't like this.  Yea Len, we got it, you like "propa". Overscored. 8s

 

Sadie:  At first I was thrown by the teddy bear but once I saw what they were doing, I really liked it. Yes it was different. No it was not the typical black & red & fierce faces. I saw plenty of paso content. She needs to work on her fierceness/commanding presence and her arms at times lacked tension but it didn't deserve the tongue lashing from Len or the 7s. I was glad to see Julianne push back against Len. Len sees costumes & makeup and dismisses the whole thing.  I don't generally like other dancers on the floor but in this case, the "zombies" didn't hide or distract from Sadie at all - she faced them down alone during her skirt moves.  Underscored. 8s + 9s for  performance.  Also, assuming she makes the finals and has to re-do a dance,  this being her lowest scored dance should be the re-do and not the rumba.

 

Janel's and Sadie's dances are what I want to see on the Halloween show. If Len doesn't like it, he should have stayed in London for another week.

 

Team Dances: I guess hiding your weakest dancer and synchonicity is more important than creativity, entertainment and maximizing ALL the couples' strengths.  Just let them all march in military precision and the judges are happy.

 

Team Bethany: Interesting that Lea was put front and center.  Michael was completely hidden for most of the opening. During the individual parts, it appeared Michael started 1 more move but Emma pulled him off stage. The re-grouping at the end, Michael was off time and head moving right while everyone else was moving left. But we'll just ignore all that and call it "perfectly synchronized".

 

Team Alfonso:  First, 1 of you is getting eliminated.  No one was hidden. Everyone got to show their best moves. I was entertained. I only saw a moment (3 or 4 beats)  in the beginning where Tommy (out of hold) was out of sync. But entertainment doesn't count so score them 4 points lower. Derek's record stands. As Sadie said, "Big Whoop".

Edited October 28, 2014 by Uke

[Toonces464]

Opener: One of the better opening dances. Anyone know who choreographed it?

 

Mandy Moore. I think she's become the permanent opening number choreographer.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Toonces464

[Donny Ketchum]

I agreed with the judges, for the most part.  This was a night of mostly disappointing dances.  I really expected something better for a Halloween-themed night.

 

Not surprised that Antonio's gone.  Once Michael was safe, it was clear that he'd be out.

[iMonrey]

I'd have to go back and watch them again, but I think one of the reasons Team Derek had better synchronization is because there was less of it. Derek is smart enough to know that's the toughest thing to pull off with four amateurs and so little rehearsal time so whatever synchronized dancing he choreographs for his team is simple and brief (such as them clasping each other in a circle or standing there in a straight line doing hand motions behind each other). Team Creepy had more ambitious synchronization even if they didn't manage to pull it off as well.

 

I still think the judges scores we B.S. though. If they had to give Team Derek four nines they could have given Alfonso's team at least a couple of 9s and a couple of 8s. The second team dance wasn't worse across the board; parts were not as good, but some parts were actually better (and as Carrie Ann pointed out, more original). 

Edited October 28, 2014 by iMonrey

[McManda]

I really liked the zombie concept for Sadie and Mark's dance, but Sadie's tentativeness was obvious. Even her claps were sort of mushy. Since in the Paso, the woman represents the bull who has to be tamed, I think it would have worked better if Mark had made Sadie the zombie with himself as the innocent kid walking through the woods. It might have helped her get into the character of the dance more. (Now I'm picturing Mark stamping his feet and saying, "NO NO NO NO I'M THE ZOMBIE!")

 

I think it could have worked as Sadie/the bull being dragged away/tamed if Sadie had put more hardness into her moves. She was just too happy, too tentative to play the role of fighting back only to be conquered in the end.

[skittl3862]

 

Like somebody with two prosphetic legs or a plus size woman or an ex-con rapper that many people thought was ghetto or a nervous headcase like Jennie Garth? And as I always say to the "Derek hasn't gotten a 70 year old", "call me when Val and/or Mark gets one."

When Val and/or Mark win 5 seasons, or make the finals all but once in the past 8 seasons, then maybe they'll need the challenge. Val hasn't won once and won't win with Janel. Mark won 2 times with "ringer" partners, but has finished 9th, 10th, and 11th. He might get into the finals with Sadie, but after this week showing how weak Sadie is with the structured ballroom dances, unless there is some serious producer intervention where Sadie magically doesn't get any Argentine Tango or foxtrot dances, I don't see Mark/Sadie winning. All the judges called her out on the weak hold. It will be interesting to see if that was a character choice for the zombie routine or her actual hold.

 

Betheny's routine was fine. I'm not knocking it. I just think it was more evident how overscored she is when she got a 9 from Len for doing just as much "messing about" with the production as everyone else, and he gave everyone else 7s and 8s in protest.

 

And no, "plus size woman" actor on Glee who does song and dance routines for a living, or a Paralympic medal-winning athlete is not the same as getting Cloris Leachman or Billy Dee Williams. I won't dignify your "ghetto ex-con rapper" comment with a response.

Edited October 28, 2014 by skittl3862

[truthaboutluv]

I won't dignify your "ghetto ex-con rapper" comment with a response.

 

 

For the record, I love Lil' Kim and enjoyed her on the show. That description came from the comments I read multiple times about her on the boards during the season. 

[Harry24]

IMO the best Halloween dance ever was Cheryl and Emmitt Smith's rumba to Spooky in Season 3. Boy could he move his hips.

That was a great dance!  A grown-up, sexy rumba with fabulous hip action.

[luvthepros]

 

Alfonso is one of my favorites, but I couldn't see that his rumba had anything whatsoever to do with Halloween. They could have done that any week, any time.

And....that is exactly the way I liked it. Enough with the themes. This Halloween theme was done a bit over the top, IMHO. I'm glad Witfonso decided to stay true to their assigned dance and not cater to the theme. Witney did have goulish make-up and that was enough of the Halloween theme for me.

[COESpiral]

Time for Michael to go, then Tommy, and after that Lea, mainly because her dancing is so bland I can never remember what she performed.  I had such hopes for her at the beginning, admittedly due to her ballet background, and while I recognize she hasn't danced in a lot of years, you'd think there would have been some memory of training (all the complaining about Artem being strict...I've yet to see a top level ballet teacher that wasn't going to kick your *** nine ways from Sunday if you weren't living up to their standards).  She doesn't look like she's having any fun.

 

Team Witfonso for the mirrorball! 

[spanana]

I think for me the problem with the themes is that TPTB and the judges are just not on the same page.  If they want to go full out with themes on Halloween night then the show should make that the non-ballroom night where couples get other dance styles as opposed to doing it on switch-up week like they did this season.  Give the couples regular ballroom on switch-up week.  Then the judges can't go after them for not enough content on the Halloween show.

 

The other thing is it seems like just about every week is a theme week in current DWTS so then it begs the questions what weeks are the pros expected to stick to their dances and what weeks can the pros be expected to get creative and draw outside the lines so to speak. Next week is something about dynamic duos where the couples are playing different duos/couples.  Janel/Val are Romeo and Juliet for example (shocking).  They have contemporary.  So just using Janel as an example, through no fault of her own she's done jazz, burlesque and now contemporary for 3/8 weeks.   You can argue whether or not her V. Waltz was more a performance piece or actual ballroom.    The group dances this week were freestyles, as opposed to the old days when the group dances were actually a ballroom dance (often paso, tango or cha cha).  

 

So I guess for me it's a couple of things.  All the couples are doing so much non ballroom already that I'd like to see them stick to the assigned dances on the weeks they actually get ballroom.   If the pros/dancers were never getting the chances to draw outside the lines, I'd cut them more slack.  But there is so much extra happening and creative freedom already with all the contemps and jazzes.

 

Also by the time we even get to the finals and the freestyle round, what is left for these people to even do?  Most of these celebs will have done two or three "freestyles" before they even get to the finale.

[Uke]

The thing I'm curious about, is that the dancers don't just get to blow tens of thousands of dollars (guessing) on giant production numbers in a vacuum - they have to be being actively encouraged and supported in it by the show. Len's complaints seem to be producer-level, "direction the show is taking" complaints. Kind of curious if he decided to shout and grump about it on the show live, since that's his forum. I'd be curious to know if there's more behind the scenes drama on that. I know Len's been around forever - does he have any sort of producer credit or sayso in the direction it goes, or is he contracted simply to judge? 

 

Replied in the Grassy Knoll thread.

[McManda]

Also by the time we even get to the finals and the freestyle round, what is left for these people to even do?  Most of these celebs will have done two or three "freestyles" before they even get to the finale.

 

I think this is why the freestyles (for me) were mostly underwhelming. The freestyle used to be something new, something different, something bigger and better, and something maybe all inclusive of everything they'd done over the past 10 weeks.

 

But now with all the contemporaries and jazzes and broadways and troupe members and props I don't feel like it's anything new or different. It's just another dance - that maybe the judges don't harp on as much.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I'd be fine with one week a season - Halloween being a great opportunity for such - to declare a ballroom-free zone.  Freestyle that fits the theme.  If you wnated to add a bonus point for intelligent incorporation of a ballroom style, eg Paso or Quickstep, all the better.  

 

Generally, I can't stand it when the jidges are inconsistent themselves and as a group in marking down improper choreography.  Janel's dance was almost unrecognizable, but it was pleasing and well done.  Lea's Tango was representative, but not pleasing.  Sadie's Paso was the most ambitious effort of the night and was the most evocative of the Halloween theme.  And the comments and scoring of the jidges were all over the joint.  Lack of standards has been the worst element of this series.  Maddening, even.

 

Since they gave up the ballroom ghost years ago, let's just have the pros present their partners as best they can.  Score based on how well the couple hits the mark/executes the vision.  Or, heck - no scores at all.  Just have Ameriker decide it.

[Woodrose]

Am I correct that the livestream interviews with Lacey are only available while the show is airing?  I can't find any place to watch it after the fact.  They want us to watch the Lacey interviews on our computer while we are watching the live show on the TV?  Has anyone done so?  I'd be interested in hearing a viewer report.

[spanana]

Since they gave up the ballroom ghost years ago, let's just have the pros present their partners as best they can.  Score based on how well the couple hits the mark/executes the vision.  Or, heck - no scores at all.  Just have Ameriker decide it.

 

The problem with this IMO is then what would even be the point of assigning dances.  If the judges can't call out routines for lack of content, then every week essentially becomes a freestyle since the pros/celebs know there are no consequences as long as a routine is pleasing or danced well.   So if somebody gets assigned a tango, attempts no tango steps, they can get a perfect score for delivering a polished routine?  

 

I understand the judges are inconsistent and that is frustrating, on top of the fact that they are on a different page than TPTB, but I feel like the pros need to be held to some standards of actually delivering the assigned dances.

[crocosmia]

And no, "plus size woman" actor on Glee who does song and dance routines for a living, or a Paralympic medal-winning athlete is not the same as getting Cloris Leachman or Billy Dee Williams.

 

Exactly.   Derek's "plus-sized" partners are already accomplished dancers when they come to the show.   There was also Ricki Lake, who starred in Hairspray.    Even Derek's token "older" partner, Jennifer Grey, had dancing experience in her movie career.   Derek has never had the challenge of teaching a partner who doesn't have at least some competence.   I have no idea how good he really is as a dance teacher, since he's never had the challenges that some of the other pros have faced.  

 

I do think Bethany has improved during this season, but she's not particularly fun to watch, nor is she the perfection Derek's scores have indicated.   I still see her and Janel as pretty much interchangeable.   

 

But DWTS is solely for entertainment and fun, not to be taken too seriously.   It's just a silly and mostly enjoyable show.    No contestant's future depends on this thing.  The winners get a cheesy trophy to keep as a memento, and the "stars" go back to their usual lives and careers when it's all over.   

 

That's probably why the show tries to make sure that Derek sticks around as long as possible.   He's talented and creative, and his own fanbase is huge.  He brings in viewers.   It's not really cheating when they favor him, since the competition itself doesn't really mean a whole lot.   It's the entertainment value they want, which Derek brings in spades.  

Edited October 29, 2014 by crocosmia

[KerleyQ]

This is true, and YMMV, but I'm sure if the judges would focus on nitpicking Bethany as much as they (usually) nitpick Alfonso, then they could've pinpointed weak instances in her technical performance. The choreography was interesting, I will give Derek that, but I'm not sure that Bethany's contribution to it deserved 10s. 

 

I think my biggest problem with the judges' Derek love-fest is that they seem to focus so much of their comments on his "brilliance" and his choreography.  And I'm not disputing that he's a great choreographer, but this is supposed to be about the stars learning to dance and their performances.  And while their performances are obviously impacted by their pro's work, I prefer to see the feedback focus on the star more than the pro.  Compliment the choreography, by all means, but every week doesn't need to be at least three judges expounding on the brilliance of Derek, sometimes to the exclusion of even commenting on his partner's performance.  

 

How is that any different than how the show has been announcing safe/jeopardy couples since they went to a single weekly broadcast?  

 

My problem with the way it was done this week was that Tom specifically said "we're not going to tell you if you're safe or in jeopardy until after you dance" (referring to the team dances).  But, it ended up being "until after Derek's team dances."  It was a shitty thing to pull on Alfonso's team.  

 

. As someone noted above, frankly Michael deserved 1 or 2's considering the man literally did not do a Jive at all. The 5's were actually generous. 

 

Like somebody with two prosphetic legs or a plus size woman or an ex-con rapper that many people thought was ghetto or a nervous headcase like Jennie Garth? And as I always say to the "Derek hasn't gotten a 70 year old", "call me when Val and/or Mark gets one."

 

If I wasn't used to this show's general refusal to pull out anything lower, I would have been surprised he got as high as 5 from any of them.  He quite literally did nothing out there but walk from spot to spot while Emma danced her heart out.  This was Master P levels of phoning it in.  If he's not interested in even trying out there, then he should bow out and let someone else stay who is genuinely trying to learn and perform. 

 

As for Derek's partners:  Jennie was his first partner, and, even then, they had no idea she'd be so nervous.  It's not like, coming into the season, anyone would have tabbed her as a "challenging" partner.  And those two prosthetic legs?  Came attached to a world class athlete who is still young and competing.  The "plus size woman" was a performer to the core who came in from a show where musical numbers are, as I understand it (never having watched Glee) a regular thing in every episode.  It's not like, in giving him a "plus sized woman" they gave him the mother from Honey Boo Boo.  

 

I can totally get Len's complaining about the "mucking about" if it wasn't a theme week that called for it, to some extent.  But when you task the cast with a Halloween themed week like this, with the expectation on their shoulders that their performances are going to be a production, then it sucks to see the couples get called out for putting on that production.  The problem is that these theme weeks aren't a special "treat" done once, maybe twice in a season, they're every single week.  We can't just have a week where we just see them dance a couple of traditional latin and ballroom routines. It has to be frustrating to do what you're being asked to do and get criticized for it.  Add in that the "mucking about" critique isn't remotely consistent.  Most of the pros who have been around for multiple seasons have had performances with the dreaded "mucking about."  Sometimes it's part of their concept or trying to incorporate the week's theme, sometimes it's to hide a partner's injury or limitations.  And there's no rhyme or reason as to when it does or doesn't get called out.  

 

And, seriously, Michael needs to go home next week.  I fear Lea might end up a surprise exit, though.  

 

Speaking of Lea, I think the judges did get in some insightful stuff with her last night.  I think she puts a lot of pressure on herself because she has dance experience and she holds herself to a higher standard, but she's so focused on living up to that background that she's not loosening up and having fun with this.  And it shows in that her performances are technically sound, but you can feel the discomfort wafting off of her as she dances, and that generally translates to a lot of viewers feeling a second hand discomfort, which doesn't lead them to run to their phones or computers to vote for her.  I'd love to see her really lighten up and let go.  

[jhlipton]

Tommy wasn't good in the team dance. He was not in sync with the rest of the team. Michael was in sync. The spot where they were running off stage wasn't a missed twirl but a missed shot by the director. The next couple was already into their dance when they were finally shown.

 

It's easy to be in sync when you don't have to do anything.  Michael just stood like the clump he is.  Bah.  At least Tommy danced. And the Team Creepy's move at the end was in better sync than anything with Michael in it.  But Golden Boy has to win or he'll throw a snit-fit.

 

ETA: Anyone who thinks it was Bethany who was the team "captain" and not Derek needs to have their heads examined.  Also, what would Derek have done if Sadie was on his team?  No way she would have worn one of those outfits.  Amazing coincidence that she wasn't, right?

 

 

Why do we have 4 judges now, when there's not enough time to get their critiques?

 

Why do we have four judges when at week SEVEN, they still can't get them all in frame?

Edited October 29, 2014 by jhlipton

[RedheadZombie]

 

Bethany looked even more horrible in that hairstyle than in last week's  What the what - she's a beautiful girl?

 

She was portraying Maleficent, and those were her horns.

 

I wish the show would be a little more careful with the rehearsal packages they air.  By all appearances, Sadie seems to be a sweet girl.  Yet they showed her during group rehearsal saying something like - "Yeah, but can Tommy Chong do it ....... no", with an eyeroll.  I wanted to say - Yes Sadie, Tommy Wong can't keep up with you..... he's sixty years older, little twit.

[hurdygurdy]

When I saw Bethany's hair and costume, I thought she looked like a young female version of Gary Oldman in Bram Stoker's Dracula.  If you've never seen that movie, check it out -- it has amazing (Oscar-winning) costume design.

 

Overall, the Halloween episode was surprisingly subdued.  I expected it to be more outrageous, tbh.  Mark & Sadie had the most memorable routine b/c they went all out with their concept and told a story.  The other routines seemed half-assed.

 

The group routines felt shorter this time.  When Alfonso & Witney did their mime jive, it ended so quickly, I thought, that's it? Maybe if there were three judges instead of four, there would've been more time for the group dances.

[knightingal]

"I'm wearing my Chris Harrison from the Bachelor outfit" lol oh Tom 

Edited October 29, 2014 by knightingal

[ari333]

I still don't understand why Sadie had the teddybear.

 

I agree with the comments about too many people on the floor. It's too much. I also think it's a little unfair that some folks get a (famous?) live vocalist singing a current hit song and others get..... something else for music.

 

Bruno can be a doofus, but if he's a judge he should be allowed to speak.

 

When they want the older people to go, do they assign them the quickstep or the jive with the fastest music possible? As mentioned, Michael's not going anywhere unless he fakes an injury, gets a real one, or straight up asks his fans not to vote for him.

 

I'll miss Cheryl.

[crowceilidh]

I'd say that they're doing the four judges who don't have time to speak so that we'll all be relieved when Len leaves instead of rioting in the streets.  Just a theory.

[luvthepros]

 

.........Also by the time we even get to the finals and the freestyle round, what is left for these people to even do?  Most of these celebs will have done two or three "freestyles" before they even get to the finale.

I've been hoping since week one that Witfonso will perform a tap Freestyle. That genre has never been done on this show in all of the seasons the show has been aired. Witney is trained in tap and although Alfonso probably hasn't tapped in quite a few years, I'm hoping he is brushing up on tap. They will slay in the Freestyle if they can pull it off.