S06.E06: Old Spice

[riverheightsnancy]

I didn't at all care for the religious stuff and don't really understand why the Kings want to push that to the front and risk alienating viewers. At least Grace seems uncomfortable with the lying that Alicia didn't seem to mind doing at all.

In my view, this is Grace's questioning of her own spiritual path. In many Christian faiths, "visiting" or reaching out to the "unsaved" is a vital part of the message. If a person makes the tiniest move towards the faith, it is seen as a positive, because you never know when the words may come through to a person and then they make the move to change. Plus for some religions, they are just the conduit for God, God is the one who moves the person, NOT them. But they must get the Word out, so that the person has been given the opportunity to hear the Word. I see Grace as starting to doubt her own viewpoint. I think that would actually be interesting.  I think that she was reacting as if she realized that she was being hypocritical.   I feel bad for Cary. This was supposed to be Alicia and him. It is LG all over again. 

[Black Knight]

As an atheist myself, I both did and didn't appreciate Alicia's storyline. Americans are less willing to vote for atheists for elected office than for any other minority, even Muslims - atheists are that mistrusted. So I appreciated it on that level. But, atheists have started to break that barrier and get elected to office even while being openly atheist, so this felt a bit behind the times to me, particularly given the show is set in Illinois rather than a Bible Belt state. So I didn't appreciate it on that level. It's kind of like the DOMA episode all over again - while I'm usually happy to have some focus shined on gay issues, I disliked it because the episode was so out of touch with where real-life court proceedings were.

 

They've ruined Elsbeth over these last two episodes. That is all.

[Hanahope]

I thought the script was pretty good with Alicia carefully answering, deflecting and not-answering many of the religious questions.  That said, yeah, you almost always have to go to church to get elected, at least in the higher offices.  Which is probably one reason I could never be elected.  Not sure I'd be as good at faking it even with my religious upbringing (or maybe because of it).

 

I had no idea that parole rules were so nit-picky and strict.  So does this mean Cary can't represent anyone at the firm that's been arrested for a crime?  That could affect his work. 

 

Oh, and can I call BS to Elspeth having an "original" invoice.  Seriously, no one gives up those things.  Kalinda would have had to gone undercover somewhere to obtain that, and it would had to have been stolen, and certainly not so quickly.  And even if Kalinda did have it, no way would Elspeth bring it to a meeting.  I know she did it to set up Josh, but the whole scenario is really far fetched.

 

Also a bit of BS that LGC would have had to vacate the offices in 24 hours.  I'm sure the lease provides for "reasonable" notice, which would be a minimum of 2 weeks, if not a month.  How could Lyman have left the partnership of LGC (to join the partnership of FAL) without Lee and Canning knowing? 

[riverheightsnancy]

As an atheist myself, I both did and didn't appreciate Alicia's storyline. Americans are less willing to vote for atheists for elected office than for any other minority, even Muslims - atheists are that mistrusted. So I appreciated it on that level. But, atheists have started to break that barrier and get elected to office even while being openly atheist, so this felt a bit behind the times to me, particularly given the show is set in Illinois rather than a Bible Belt state. So I didn't appreciate it on that level. 

As an Agnostic, I don't know why she just doesn't say, separation of church and state!  That whatever she believes in will be private and separate from doing her JOB! I guess that is too simple though and taken by religious people as non-believing and "No vote for you!"

[Maximona]

The Elspeth subplot and moving back to the old LG office made this the worst episode of a so far surprisingly strong season, so far as I'm concerned.  Elspeth's charm as a minor character was that she just straddled that over-the-top line enough so that I actually wondered whether having a wacked out, distracted manner might be a brilliant legal strategy of sorts.  Not any more.

 

And the move to the old LG office made me think that Alicia will win the AG race, hence making the firm's location absolutely irrelevant since she won't be there.

 

I have no idea why religion is touted as Such a Big Deal in American elections.  Most Americans, of course, don't vote!  

 

There are always signs on highways when you go from one state into another, but on back country roads that skirt state borders, there aren't always places to turn around.

[ChocButterfly]

Ugh, I HATED this episode! They really did ruin Elsbeth. Also, I'm all for quirky characters, but those 2 seem just plainly creepy, plus I have no idea how they can even function in society.

 

Cary was stupid to even been drinking, knowing that the DA has it for him. Plus I was really sure that woman was a planted prostitute. Whoever mentioned how tasteless was the gang rape joke: THANK YOU! That was so out of line I cannot even begin...

 

The move back to the old offices makes zero sense.  They just put a ton of money into the new offices and now they'll have to spend even more to clean up the new/old offices, replace damaged equipment, change the stationery?  Don't they have a rental agreement that they'll have to honor at the space they will be vacating?

 

THIS. They supposedly have a lease, plus they have been fixing the place and redecorating. Also, when Lee and Canning left everything smashed, since when do computers equipments, phones and such belong to the rental space?? Aren't these things stuff you move and take with you? That made no sense. Plus, I found it so low and vindictive to actually evict LG like that. And then they wonder why they hate them. I'm sure they would have done the same to FA, if they could, but why stoop to their level? And don't get me started with the hiring Lyman thing! As  I see it now, the "new" firm has the same people, the same clients, they're employing the same shitty tactics and now they have the same offices too. So....what gives?

 

I really didn't mind the religion thing. I actually think Alicia was pretty brave in not plainly lie. Most politicians do lie about it. And it'd be almost impossible for her to get elected as an atheist. Unfortunately that is the reality. I don't know why people view it as lying; Alicia wasn't lying and she wasn't being a hypocrite either, she smartly danced around the issue. She said she was "listening". She never said she really believed in God. I like that Grace seemed very tolerant. And I like that last part with her friends hearing what they wanted to hear, disregarding what Grace was trying to tell them.

[panthergirl13]

sure is alienating me. I kept turning the channel or wanting Alicia to cut the interview short. it was so aggravating. 

I'm an atheist and I actually do find this storyline interesting, because of all the things a person can be and get elected to office in this country, an atheist ain't one of them. 

 

That said, I found the rest of the episode kind of stupid and boring. I hope the show gets back on track. Last season was so amazing.

 

And if they were going to move offices, couldn't they just move to NEW YORK? Honestly every time they reference Cook County or Illinois or whatever I'm always like "huh?? Oh right... Faux Chicago..." 

[morgankobi]

What major candidates have lost when it's known that they are atheist? As in, they had an actual shot until that was known/brought up.

[Kromm]

What major candidates have lost when it's known that they are atheist? As in, they had an actual shot until that was known/brought up.

Probably plenty of people in the bible belt. In Chicago? Not so much.

[CleoCaesar]

I am truly irritated that it seems no one can get elected unless they pay at least lip service to religion.  There are lots of atheists out there - why do candidates need to lie about that in order to be elected?

 

Atheists - of which I am one - are still a tiny minority in the U.S. compared to the overwhelmingly Christian majority. Not to mention poll after poll after poll has atheists as America's most despised and distrusted minority, more so than Muslims, Jews, gay and trans people. So we are far more likely to see a president that is gay and Jewish for instance rather than an atheist.

[Kromm]

The religious bias seems to adhere most to the outside positions in politics. The highest and the lowest offices.  Getting a non-Christian president may make getting a black president look easy in comparison. And then on a local level, people are most inclined to vote for the "neighbor" they identify most with, whatever that may be (not necessarily Christian--just representative of whatever religious beliefs that area or district has as a default). It's in the middle areas of politics, where candidates represent multiple groups over a slightly larger land area, but it's not nationwide, where there's enough wiggle room for someone unexpected to get through.

[pvd3819]

Elsbeth Tascioni knows the Illinois law on surreptitious recording very well. Remember when she was defending the dear departed Will Gardner and she used that tactic on the nasty guy (Eric Bogosian as I recall) trying to hang Will for helping Peter stuff ballot boxes. Prosecutor Josh Perotti has NO IDEA who he's messing with. The bodice ripping was a very nice touch. Best scene: Alicia in Will's chair, remember what used to happen in that office or the office closet, or the office desk. Ah yes, the good old days. http://tvruckus.com/2014/10/27/the-good-wife-old-spice-and-baby-lotion-do-the-wild-thing/

[ktwo]

Paraphrasing, but I heard Alicia tell Cary something like "we're in this together." How did this not get a quick retort from Cary such as "...except you'll have to leave if you win the State's Attorney race."? How has this massive issue not been brought up by anyone at Florrick Agos? Hello?

[shapeshifter]

Oh, and can I call BS to Elspeth having an "original" invoice.  Seriously, no one gives up those things....

I assumed it was a fake original that she knew he would shred--and which she was ready to record to scare him into settling. Right?

[AudienceofOne]

I assumed it was a fake original that she knew he would shred--and which she was ready to record to scare him into settling. Right?

 

 

That's what I thought. I thought they found out about the existence of the original but thought they wouldn't get it in time so she came up with the plan to trick him into shredding what he thought was an original and taping it.

[Boundary]

So Alicia and Diane have taken Cary and his firm, dragged it out of its start-up neighbourhood and offices - and saddled it with old clients and colleagues, who now out-vote him - back to the offices he left. Not only that, Alicia then has plans to ditch him there and start her political career. I bet Cary wanted out, and tried to use the SA coming after him as an excuse out of the firm he co-created but doesn't recognise anymore. It has morphed back into the old place he despised. It's not even worth the going to prison for it anymore.

 

Oh, and Robyn is also being screwed over.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Boundary

[Ms Blue Jay]

Regarding the incredibly offensive and stupid line about Cary being gang-raped being 'hot'.

 

The Good Wife writers have this extremely long history of writing women who are the worst, most disgusting flirters ever.  Remember Tammy?   ("Don't fall in love with me, K?" While falling very hard in love with Will.) Ugh.  Such horrible memories.  It's like the one positive of Will dying is to be rid of all those gross women who used to "flirt" with him.  I think I just block it out now, but that gang-rape line was especially bad.  Seriously this stuff is an insult to women everywhere.  

Edited October 27, 2014 by Ms Blue Jay

[backformore]

Regarding the incredibly offensive and stupid line about Cary being gang-raped being 'hot'.

 

The Good Wife writers have this extremely long history of writing women who are the worst, most disgusting flirters ever.  Remember Tammy?   ("Don't fall in love with me, K?" While falling very hard in love with Will.) Ugh.  Such horrible memories.  It's like the one positive of Will dying is to be rid of all those gross women who used to "flirt" with him.  I think I just block it out now, but that gang-rape line was especially bad.  Seriously this stuff is an insult to women everywhere.  

Yeah, I really hated that.  I hate the general view that when you go to prison you WILL be raped.  I know it happens, but rape is rape, whether it happens in your home, on the street, or in prison.  I hate all the jokes about prison rape, and this woman thinking it was "hot"  made me want Cary to react with anger, and point out how offensive it would be if he thought her being raped was "hot". 

[Kiddvideo]

I'm glad Cary has been forbidden to see Kalinda. She's used and betrayed him -- and he knows it -- yet he's still into her. Though why do I think he's going to get caught with her and that's when he'll end up back in jail.

A continuing pet peeve: Do none of these people have doormen or locked doors downstairs where you need to be buzzed in? How is it that people show-up up at Alicia's front door without being announced? Same with Linda Lavin, just walking up to Cary's apt while he's with someone who thinks it's appropriate or funny to tell his pre-trial court officer that they were planning on doing drugs. He needs better quality people in his life (both work and personal) and not just because it'll look good to the court.

Who would take LeMond on as a client knowing what the SA is doing to Cary?

Edited October 28, 2014 by Kiddvideofan

[oceanblue]

Good point.  Religion is talked about a lot in federal elections, I'm assuming largely due to choice.  I work in politics, but I'm from the northeast.  I find it shocking that in many parts of the country it's the norm to use God as a marketing tool on your campaign.  Anything beyond "may God bless the United States of America" is too much to me.  God isn't really taking a side in our political contests.  Or for that matter, sporting events.  When people pray for their team to win, I visualize God banging his head into a wall.  

[meatball77]

 

Cary was stupid to even been drinking, knowing that the DA has it for him. Plus I was really sure that woman was a planted prostitute.

Wasn't it Will's old girlfriend?  The one that was a law student that he met when he was the judge at the lawschool?

 

The only problem with the SA interview thing is that no one really cares or pays attention to who gets those type of offices.  They're generally won by the strength of the party and name recognition alone (I couldn't tell you the name of anyone on the NOV ticket except for the Gov and Lt Gov's race) unless something weird happens that causes a scandal (like a candidate announcing that she's an Atheist). 

 

I did like how Alicia skirted the issue of religion in the most delicate way she could.  She didn't outright lie and say she'd been saved but she also didn't do what would have killed her campaign by saying that she was a non-believer.  It's the lie that many atheists use on a daily basis to fit into society.

[AudienceofOne]

I did like how Alicia skirted the issue of religion in the most delicate way she could.  She didn't outright lie

 

 

She said she was listening, especially to Grace. Which is literally true. While the television watcher in me wanted her to diplomatically stand her ground on the issue, I appreciate that this is the reality of politics. At least in the US. In Australia, politicians are suppposed to be believe in God but never ever talk about it and if they do they get howled down in a storm of mockery. Which, I suppose, is even more bizarrre. Our former PM was an atheist and the media used to bang on about it all the time but when our current PM mentioned God, the same media went apeshit. Admittedly our current PM is a batshit insane theocrat so maybe that's why.

[marceline]

 

Wasn't it Will's old girlfriend?  The one that was a law student that he met when he was the judge at the lawschool?

 

No. Her name was Giada and she was played by Karen Olivo of the Tony-award winning In the Heights. (Broadway fan here. Hee.)

Edited October 28, 2014 by marceline

[Texasmom1970]

Old Spice and baby lotion, well I guess what ever floats their boat.

The only part I liked from this episode was when Alicia sat in Will's chair and looked over at Diane. It was touching snd it made me sad. I really liked Josh Chares on this show.

[Youngy]

Yeah, I've got nothing. <br /><br />Moving back to old firm's offices seems more set-design issue than anything. Shabby from story standpoint; doesn't quite add up. Still no mention of Alicia SA race among her partners -- and it IS her last name that's top of the letterhead. Cary prison stuff? Seems like everyone -- Cary, Alicia, Diane -- needs to wake-up and get in the game here. Just lazy writing. <br /><br />Cary, really? Drinking all-day again? (Though Linda Lavin is playing an annoying role extremely well.)<br /><br />Missing Josh Charles. Don't care/maybe vaguely amused by Elsbeth and Josh Perotti.<br /><br />And, yes: Where the hell is Robyn?<br /><br />Are we sure this is the same show I was so into a year ago at this time? Discuss.

[CMH1981]

Do you think the Kings are trying to hint to Matt Czuchry that they want him off this show b/c I have no other explanation for his storyline this season.  Do you think he pissed off Julianna Marguiles as well?  I really hope this is the last season b/c this show has gone off the rails so much in just what, four or five episodes. 

 

I can't believe they have messed up the character of Elsbeth Tascioni just to serve their damn storyline and make Alicia look like the more competent lawyer.

 

I didn't mind when Diane joined the new firm and brought others from LG&C, but to tell me that all this was to lead FA&L back to the offices they started out in?!  Seriously?!  Just b/c Diane can't stand her new surroundings being posh and polished?  Ugh...

 

Howard freaking Lyman?!  Really?  I would rather they brought David Lee, at least he brings something to the table in regards to being an expert in family law.

 

I have a question, could Diane possibly oust Cary as a partner/named partner by circumventing Alicia and getting a percentage of the partners on her side.  I really think she could do this quite easily by bringing up how much money Cary is costing the partners in bail money and profits.

 

Did we ever get a follow up to Alicia finding out that Bishop is bankrolling her campaign basically?  Did she tell Eli, or the other guy? 

Edited October 28, 2014 by CMH1981

[jb1183]

I've been a fan from the beginning and have been watching the Saturday night reruns from Season 1. I'm really struck by how much quieter and more subtle the show was back then. It's almost like all the praise and awards went to the Kings' heads and they felt like everything needed to become "bigger" and "more important." It's also been nice to return to a time when I genuinely liked Alicia and rooted for her, when the irreplaceable Will Gardner still walked the halls of L & G, and when Alicia and Kalinda's unlikely friendship was at the heart of the show. RIP, Will and Kalicia. Those "deaths" are two of the reasons I know I'll never enjoy this show as much as I once did.

 

Alicia running for State's Attorney is not a good direction to go in. I keep waiting for someone within the context of the show to point out that she has no prosecutorial experience. I keep waiting for any kind of onscreen conversation with Diane or Cary about her decision to run and what it would mean for the firm if she won. It's ridiculous that this hasn't been addressed yet.

 

And I keep waiting for AP's talents to stop being wasted and for her to appear in one freaking scene with JM. It's no wonder she chose not to renew her contract. 

Edited October 28, 2014 by jb1183

[shapeshifter]

Do you think the Kings are trying to hint to Matt Czuchry that they want him off this show b/c I have no other explanation for his storyline this season....

I have a question, could Diane possibly oust Cary as a partner/named partner by circumventing Alicia and getting a percentage of the partners on her side.  I really think she could do this quite easily by bringing up how much money Cary is costing the partners in bail money and profits....

I think you might be on to something. This would explain his risky behavior. I would expect him to be having PTSD after everything that happened--so that could explain his drinking--which is leading to bad decisions. Maybe he'll get shipped away to rehab.

 

...Did we ever get a follow up to Alicia finding out that Bishop is bankrolling her campaign basically?  Did she tell Eli, or the other guy?

Good question. No answer.

[Irlandesa]

I know nothing about politics, in fact I detest it most of the time, but my assumption would be that they feel they are catering to the larger majority. The mumber of people that consider themselves religious far outweighs the number of people that don't.

Right.  And there are surveys out there that indicate people need their politicians, at least for the bigger offices, to have some form of religion.  It doesn't have to be that person's religion but they claim they won't vote for atheists.  It's not fair.  One does not have to be religious to have morals and ethics but it is the way it is.  That said....

Also completely unbelievable?  That anyone running for Cook County State's Attorney would have to talk about their religion or lack thereof.  Are you the Democrat?  Yes?  You win.  That's pretty much how it goes for Cook County elections.  There's an extremely close race for governor going on right now, and I haven't heard anyone talk about religion at all.

So. much. this!  Religion mattering to voters isn't the most ridiculous notion The Good Wife is putting out there.  It made a lot of sense when Peter talked up his conversion since he was recovering from a scandal and angling to be the Governor of the whole state of IL.  But religion being a big factor in the race for Cook County State's Attorney?  I have a hard time buying that.   There are certain races at certain political levels where religious pandering is necessary but this wouldn't be one of them.

[coloradoqt]

 

Did we ever get a follow up to Alicia finding out that Bishop is bankrolling her campaign basically?  Did she tell Eli, or the other guy?

Alicia decided she would run after Eli got so excited about this pile of money from a PAC. The Pac that Bishop started and bankrolled. Don'tcha  you  think Eli would want to know about that, Alicia?  Also did'ja think Bishop was lying when he said you still work for him?  Come on Alicia, get your head out of YOUR head and stop screwing up everyone's life and dreams. 

[Maximona]

Yeah, previous TGW seasons were far more subtle.  My BF -- whenever I've tried to get him to watch the show with me -- tells me that no man watches this show, that it is a "women's show" (whatever that's supposed to mean.)  Which would put it up against really unsubtle shows like "Scandal" and "Nashville."  So maybe the showrunners are trying to make TGW more like those shows in hopes of courting the designated demographic.  Dunno.

 

I basically watch it for Alan Cummings, so as long as they stash him in a couple of scenes every week, I'm happy.

[BearCat49]

In my view, this is Grace's questioning of her own spiritual path. In many Christian faiths, "visiting" or reaching out to the "unsaved" is a vital part of the message. If a person makes the tiniest move towards the faith, it is seen as a positive, because you never know when the words may come through to a person and then they make the move to change. Plus for some religions, they are just the conduit for God, God is the one who moves the person, NOT them. But they must get the Word out, so that the person has been given the opportunity to hear the Word. I see Grace as starting to doubt her own viewpoint. I think that would actually be interesting.  I think that she was reacting as if she realized that she was being hypocritical.   I feel bad for Cary. This was supposed to be Alicia and him. It is LG all over again. 

 

I interpreted Grace's reaction differently.  Obviously, the Kings can and will take the storyline in whatever direction they choose.  I don't believe Alicia's faux "listening" would cause Grace to doubt her own faith.  Instead, I thought the look on Grace's faith after the bible study leader praised her missionary efforts with Alicia was a reaction to the ugly, hypocritical nature of politics.  And, Grace has lived with it her entire life so she understands (or should, by now, lol) that many things are said and done strictly to win the election.

 

I believe the Christian faiths would call Grace's missionary efforts obeying the commandment to "Share the Good News!" and their focus would be on Jesus Christ.

 

That's all JMHO so we'll see where the Kings take it.  Hopefully, that's the last of it!

[Inquisitionist]

Do none of these people have doormen or locked doors downstairs where you need to be buzzed in? How is it that people show-up up at Alicia's front door without being announced?

 

Even worse is the way anyone can walk into a partner's office at a major law firm.  I've visited many law firms of varying sizes, and the reception area is always very isolated from actual work activity and offices.  You don't get past there without the receptionist's approval.

[BearCat49]

Even worse is the way anyone can walk into a partner's office at a major law firm.  I've visited many law firms of varying sizes, and the reception area is always very isolated from actual work activity and offices.  You don't get past there without the receptionist's approval.

 

Have noticed this, too.  Although the (previous) L/G set-up felt somewhat authentic b/c Will and Diane had an executive floor or row, so to speak, they did appear to let any yokel waltz in.  And, remember the brouhaha when junior associate Alicia scored her office in the vicinity?  (Hmmm, thinking that was before the torrid affair began ... )

 

WRT their apartments, I've always made the dramatic leap / assumption that everyone's slipping in with a legitimate, approved/buzzed in visitor.  Mrs. Grubick probably flashed some sort of badge to gain access, if necessary

[CleoCaesar]

Do you think the Kings are trying to hint to Matt Czuchry that they want him off this show b/c I have no other explanation for his storyline this season.  Do you think he pissed off Julianna Marguiles as well?

 

Hehe I find it funny that JM has become sort of an all-purpose scapegoat when certain actors or characters are marginalized or treated badly.

 

I don't believe Alicia's faux "listening" would cause Grace to doubt her own faith.  Instead, I thought the look on Grace's faith after the bible study leader praised her missionary efforts with Alicia was a reaction to the ugly, hypocritical nature of politics.

 

Same here. It was a look of mild disappointment and maybe shame - she was being praised for converting her mother but she realized it was all an act. Not to mention I don't understand how Alicia's fibbing on TV would cause Grace to reevaluate things on that big a level. She went from being a nonbeliever to being fully convinced of the existence of a supernatural deity, an afterlife, and the infallibility of a holy text. If you've managed to go that far in your beliefs, seems like it's going to take more to shake your convictions.

 

My BF -- whenever I've tried to get him to watch the show with me -- tells me that no man watches this show, that it is a "women's show" (whatever that's supposed to mean.)

 

Ugh...

[caracas1914]

Cary is being steamrolled out of the firm that was basically his baby, his dream  to make a leaner, different law firm.   What annoys about this is how dismissive Alicia is of him, already the majority vote that she pulls out of her hat whenever he dissents means she's pushing buttons behind the scenes.  The Kings writing clips his wings and hems him in because he has no freedom to actually practice law, it's the perfect storm of impotence for the character.

 

No association with Kalinda, an ankle bracelet, out on bond, costing his firm hundreds of thousands of dollars, it's a wonder Cary hasn't been shown the door yet.

[alexvillage]

Made it through half the episode, painful to watch. 

Maybe wil watch the second half.

Just don't care about anyone or any storyline anymore.

[romantic idiot]

RE: the office move - I'll confess to being a little puzzled at the outrage and objections from Cary. If I remember correctly, they were supposed to move into just as swanky offices. Just that when Will & David Lee found out about FA, they made the original rental property unliveable, so they moved into the terrible new offices (as per the show) where everyone who visits keeps saying they need walls. It has never been shown to be anywhere close to good enough. It's got cockroaches in drawers and a homeless guy walking around shirtless bathing in the sinks. The elevators are those weird large service elevator thingies. It was a converted factory / warehouse, not in a nice part of town, so given a choice between staying there and spending money renovating, and using LG's office space - which provides privacy for their clients and better branding - why wouldn't they pick the LG office space? Because of some superstitious going backward worry? Why can't it be that FA are finally ready to play in the big leagues deal?

[NutMeg]

I'm starting to think the Kings are actually thinking about the viewers and don't want them to be too sad when this clusterfuck, sorry, formerly awesome show, comes to an end. So they're progressively killing off our favorite characters, either litterally (Will), symbolically (Elsbeth, Cary, Diane to some extent) or contractually (be happy for Archie Panjabi, she's escaping this mess, you guys!). So basically they've realized they've painted themselves in a corner and at this stage even the good will accumulated in how many seasons will not be enough to keep me (not sure about you all) watching - unless there's really nothing else to watch.

 

I really hope I'm right, because the alternative is very depressing after the fantastic start we had for a few seasons here. 

[UsernameFatigue]

I love that Alicia continues to display her questionable parenting skills by using her daughter's faith to further her own agenda. This after previously dismissing Grace's beliefs with a distinct air of superiority. But then she also showed an appauling lack of understanding and empathy when she ordered Zack to lie and say that Mommy Dearest was involved in every aspect of his girlfriend's abortion, right down to offering to raise the baby herself (as if!), should this very personal event in his life come to light. Alicia makes me want to hurl.

Edited October 28, 2014 by UsernameFatigue

[CMH1981]

The sad part about the dumbing down of Elsbeth Tascioni these past two episodes, is that most creators open up the doors at some point during a show for a spin-off and Elsbeth was their best bet if they wanted to go that way.  I'm not saying that a show w/Elsbeth and the Jill Hennessey character would have been perfect, but they built a very smart and nuanced character in Elsbeth, and fans reacted positively to her.  I also can't imagine that they got Jill Hennessey's character for a minor part as Elsbeth's partner w/o thinking of spinoff eventually. 

 

The Kings have really messed things up this season, especially since now Jill Wexler has confirmed that Robyn as far as she knows has been Chuck Cunningham'd and sent away w/no explanation.  Florrick, Agos, & Lockhart could have sustained two investigators easily.  I mean hell, Robyn wasn't scared of Bishop like Kalinda was and she has proven herself to be just as good an investigator as she was trained by the best.

 

I seriously hope that they redecorate the old LG offices, I have always hated the wood paneling décor, it dated the offices from the very beginning.  I think something sleek looking would really differentiate b/t the two different inhabitants of the offices.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Cary jumps ship and goes back in cahoots w/David Lee and Canning.  I mean isn't Chum-Hum and the wife more partial to Cary.  Of course I could also see the Kings actually having Cary sent to prison b/c the tape evidence wasn't fabricated, just taken out of context.  I've always thought they like the work conflict of a woman vs a woman, in this case Alicia vs Diane.  I remember from watching reruns of the first season that Diane never really cared for Alicia and Will called her out on being threatened by other women in the office from before.

[Catherinewriter]

So Kalinda's leaving? I hope she gets a super show. And what do people know about bad blood between her and Alicia.

Word and word to those who screamed at the TV during the "rape in prison" exchange. What is the matter with these people? And it's true that many other shows use this as either a joke or to threaten perps with going to prison. Really, no one ever works to reduce the incidence of rape in prison, which is what should happen.

And word to those who wonder about Diane. I don't know what holds Baranski to this show (contract?) when she does theater, film, and TV. Maybe, since a series probably pays really well, she and others are trying to prepare for bad times by socking some in the bank, so they can go back to the stage. Same for Alan Cumming. I like the occasional guest spot that works (I'm looking at you, Linda Lavin), but this show has terrific people who aren't getting more than an aside these days. Wonder what the Kings have in mind, and I'm sure whatever it is I won't like it.

They really ruined Elspeth didn't they? Last week she couldn't remember anything and this week she's disrobing in her office. Neat, show.

[caracas1914]

Elspeth was always entertaining as a character because while  you couldn't quite read her, but for all her quirkiness there was this sharp as a tack vibe that grounded her.  Now, This bumbling mess of a character for comic relief is just sad to see.  It's almost as if  the Kings have reduced to mocking the character, which is something I never got before that they did to Elspeth.

Edited October 28, 2014 by caracas1914

[axlmadonna]

 

when Grace's youth leader praises her for having "reached" Alicia with her witness, Grace clearly feels uncomfortable either about Alicia's deception, or about the expectation that she's supposed to be Grace's one-woman missionary project.

 

My take on this was that Grace felt conflicted when she was given credit for successfully witnessing to her mother, because she didn't want to lie by omission to her group (a sin, by Christian standards), but she also didn't want to expose Alicia's dishonesty and be responsible for torpedoing her whole campaign.

[Driad]

 

A study saying that the percentage of people who say that "belief in God essential to morality" is much higher in the USA than in other countries tested.  http://www.salon.com/2014/03/18/the_destructive_myth_about_religion_that_americans_disproportionately_believe_partner/?utm

[CoderLady]

My take on this was that Grace felt conflicted when she was given credit for successfully witnessing to her mother, because she didn't want to lie by omission to her group (a sin, by Christian standards), but she also didn't want to expose Alicia's dishonesty and be responsible for torpedoing her whole campaign.

 

That would be an unexpected but welcome sign of maturity in Grace, since in the past she's made blunders (talking to planted spies with phone cameras, for instance) that have jeopardized Peter's campaigns.

[needschocolate]

I was confused (mislead?) by one part - in the scene where Linda Lavin is talking to Kalinda, Kalinda pulls out her phone, pushes a button, and drops her phone on the table.  the next time we see Kalinda, she does it again.  I figured it was done twice, because someone wasn't paying attention when editing, but why was it done at all (yhe fact that they show it twice, means, to me, that they really wanted that to be in the scene).  It looks like Kalaida was taping the conversation, but then nothing happens afterward.  

 

In the forum for last week, i mentioned that it feels liekt he Kigs are trying to turn this into a comedy and that I didn't think they were very successful at it.  This episode didn't change my opinion.  While Elsbeth walkign down the street, hopping over the grates was kind of cute and somewhat in character, the sex on a desk scene was like something out of the horrible 1970's & 1980's sitcoms (not all sitcoms of those decades were horrible, but were, and those are the ones i am referring to)

 

Why I pay attention to this show, I am not sure.  Perhaps it is becoming my replacement for Under the Dome - a show to watch, not for the characters or plot, but because it is fun to look for all the ridiculous little things the writers try to sneak by the viewers.  

[Isazouzi]

I was confused (mislead?) by one part - in the scene where Linda Lavin is talking to Kalinda, Kalinda pulls out her phone, pushes a button, and drops her phone on the table.  the next time we see Kalinda, she does it again.  I figured it was done twice, because someone wasn't paying attention when editing, but why was it done at all (yhe fact that they show it twice, means, to me, that they really wanted that to be in the scene).  It looks like Kalaida was taping the conversation, but then nothing happens afterward.  

 

I just took it as Kalinda being impatient and checking the time on her phone (since she's not wearing a watch)

Edited October 28, 2014 by Isazouzi

[caracas1914]

Never thought I'd say this but I felt pity for Grace having Alicia use her faith as a primer lesson for her campaign. It's fine to ask her daughter about her beliefs if it didn't come across as so mercenary and self serving, which I would think Grace would catch on.

[Long Days Night]

Elspeth was always entertaining as a character because while  you couldn't quite read her, but for all her quirkiness there was this sharp as a tack vibe that grounded her.  Now, This bumbling mess of a character for comic relief is just sad to see.  It's almost as if  the Kings have reduced to mocking the character, which is something I never got before that they did to Elspeth.

 

 

I thought last week that they were constructing a story in which Elspeth had a total psychotic break with reality (the wallpaper pulsing, the hallucinations, the talking penguins), and that they were going with something where people would not notice the signs of the mental collapse quickly enough because they were used to screening out the quirkiness.  My husband though that they'd just hired a bunch of writers from Ally McBeal on the cheap. This episode seemed to bear out his theory, which is pretty much bad news for everyone, characters and viewers alike.