Bethenny Frankel: Skinny Girl

[Mozelle]

27 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

Everything is done on the test server for weeks ahead of time, but all that is is a replicate of the live site -- it isn't the actual backend/database of the live site and the info in that test site is just fake info to make sure things look the way they should and work the way they should and that your DB queries function the way they should, but it's not real data. Not if done by professionals anyway.

At some point you need to move everything to the live site because that is an entirely different database and you're not going to do it last minute. Your live site is pretty much on quarantine at some point until everything is entirely rechecked by your QA department on the live environment which can take hours. Assuming you pass QA without issues on the live site (never happens), you can launch. They are also launching on a Monday which complicates things because people are working on the weekend. I can't count the amount of web launches and relaunches I've done and it's always like this. If you're talking people being able to make purchases, there's even more QA involved. It can be an utter nightmare and you can't have pages half loading, not loading, loading with weird data, etc. You just throw up a Be back soon sign until you can open the doors.

Small point, but that was Kylie with the lip kit and Khloe with the jeans. The Kardashians are very busy women. :)

Thank you for your input. I'm aware of the whole QA process for website launching, but on the other hand, I was never working in e-commerce, so I admit that's where my gap in knowledge is.

[Otherkate]

Even worse there are usually 3 different environments to do all the same QA testing on -- a Dev server, a Test server, and a Live server. It's a total nightmare and I curse myself out every time for being involved in it. And if things are going well, you can guarantee that there is a ghost in the code just waiting to pop out and kill you right when you think you're out of the woods. I've done some ecommerce, but my experience is primarily editorial/media sites and tools. My ex husband ran some ecommerce sites though and his life during launches was even worse.

Anyway, I doubt I'll buy her jeans, but I am curious to see regular/non-Bethenny staff people do some try ons.

I swear I'll stop talking about this now, but this is my favorite pic to share during launches. 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2018 by Otherkate

[QuinnM]

4 minutes ago, Otherkate said:

Anyway, I doubt I'll buy her jeans, but I am curious to see regular/non-Bethenny staff people do some try ons.

During her showroom insta stories I had to really mentally check myself.  These are plus size models - models not regular people.  I have a stereotype that a model is thin and tall.  But she had every height, weight and shape.  But these are models.  I really did become a real gawker on campus looking at the women in this style jean.

[diadochokinesis]

8 hours ago, geauxaway said:

Baby Phat is / was Kimora Lee Simmons brand.  For reference.  So yes, another celeb vanity brand around about the same time Sean Jean (Puffy) was big.  It certainly had its demographic, but pretty certain it’s not all that is used to be.  Which begs the question you previously bought up.  What IS the demo for SG jeans?  Clearly not mid mom like myself.  

What is mid mom?  I’m a mom of 2 and mid-to-late 30’s. If the jeans fit and look good then I’m buying them. They are at a good price point and I wear my jeans to death. 

[Otherkate]

54 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

During her showroom insta stories I had to really mentally check myself.  These are plus size models - models not regular people.  I have a stereotype that a model is thin and tall.  But she had every height, weight and shape.  But these are models.  I really did become a real gawker on campus looking at the women in this style jean.

Right, and you never know what's going on there - are they pinning the fabric? Are they sewing certain things in that don't look right? They also control the exact type of model they're using - straight or plus size, they are controlling the overall shape of each girl. Can't wait to see some regular Janes in the jeans - we did some try ons with Khloe's original launch and there were all sorts of issues. She responded to the market and made some changes for the better though. 

[geauxaway]

3 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Send them to the next hurricane zone with a gift card in each pocket.

Am I really that much older than y'all?

I had a Brooke Shields Barbie doll!  And you are correct.  These were a BIG deal.  

@diadochokinesis sorry mid mom is just my own term.  Average, middle class,  Midwest mom (the masses lol). And I’m with you on the jeans thing.  I like soft, comfy jeggings and am willing to spend money if they fit and hold up.  My comment was mostly the feeling that I had regarding her “secrecy” on the locations.  It was off putting to me, but it really doesn’t much matter at this point.  

@Otherkate I had no clue about Friday being a dump day.  Good to know!  In my mind I was thinking people like me get paid on Fridays and that’s the day I do the majority of my not online shopping.  On another note, I love my Kylie lip kit, too.  Maliboo is the best!  

[QuinnM]

2 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

What is mid mom?  I’m a mom of 2 and mid-to-late 30’s. If the jeans fit and look good then I’m buying them. They are at a good price point and I wear my jeans to death. 

I will allow myself some ‘good’ jeans that are above my normal price point.  But once I found a really fabulous vintage pair at Madewell and thought they were at least good jean price point.  They were $535.  At Madewell.  Sigh, I don’t own them.

[Mozelle]

3 hours ago, Otherkate said:

Even worse there are usually 3 different environments to do all the same QA testing on -- a Dev server, a Test server, and a Live server. It's a total nightmare and I curse myself out every time for being involved in it. And if things are going well, you can guarantee that there is a ghost in the code just waiting to pop out and kill you right when you think you're out of the woods. I've done some ecommerce, but my experience is primarily editorial/media sites and tools. My ex husband ran some ecommerce sites though and his life during launches was even worse.

Anyway, I doubt I'll buy her jeans, but I am curious to see regular/non-Bethenny staff people do some try ons.

I swear I'll stop talking about this now, but this is my favorite pic to share during launches. 

 

 

Yeah, my time with QA was back when I was working with online training materials, so I remember the developers being stressed if we found some hiccup on the test server that they couldn't immediately replicate. Because we worked with training materials, I was only used to already launched courses staying up on the live server even while updated courses were being worked on. I guess the difference is that online training materials and e-commerce are two different worlds lol

Now in my new gig I'm straight up on the editorial side, so I don't have to futz too much with all that other stuff (though I have been learning the super duper bare minimum with Dreamweaver for a new project, so...yay? Or eek?).

25 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

I will allow myself some ‘good’ jeans that are above my normal price point.  But once I found a really fabulous vintage pair at Madewell and thought they were at least good jean price point.  They were $535.  At Madewell.  Sigh, I don’t own them.

So, I heart Madewll jeans. I mean, not at $500, of course, but I own a couple that I've dropped  about $130 on because they didn't do that awful gapping in the back. I just re-upped a pair of white jeans from there that I ended up paying only $70 for because they were on promotion and I did the denim donation that knocked off an additional $20.

[QuinnM]

8 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

So, I heart Madewll jeans. I mean, not at $500, of course, but I own a couple that I've dropped  about $130 on because they didn't do that awful gapping in the back. I just re-upped a pair of white jeans from there that I ended up paying only $70 for because they were on promotion and I did the denim donation that knocked off an additional $20.

Yes, I always fight the gap at the back and Madewell has a lot of styles that don’t do that.  I do tailor my jeans because I can sew and fit and I’m very high maintenance.  And that gap at the waist is not a simple fit change.

So I’ll try on SG.  I’m guessing from the models that they are a long waisted cut so might be a no go regardless of the style.

[CatMomma]

3 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

What is mid mom?  I’m a mom of 2 and mid-to-late 30’s. If the jeans fit and look good then I’m buying them. They are at a good price point and I wear my jeans to death. 

I think it means middle class mom. It's the new "But, will this sell in the midwest?"  

Insulting? Yup.

[Happy Camper]

https://realityblurb.com/2018/09/08/bethenny-frankel-deletes-tweet-about-mac-millers-death-after-fans-label-it-insensitive-plus-carole-radziwill-accuses-her-of-making-money-off-girls-she-skinny-shames/

Too late Bethenny. You can't just delete and pretend that you never wrote it.

Say it, forget it. Write it.....

Edited September 9, 2018 by Happy Camper

[QuinnM]

5 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

Too late Bethenny. You can't just delete and expect that you never wrote it.

Say it, forget it. Write it.....

Ok, then Bethenny is still processing her anger.  Yes delete it.  Maybe hire something like a sober companion until you can read about drug related deaths without losing it.

In other news - Macy’s is carrying SG Jeans.  Bethenny at the NYC flagship store on the 12th.

[geauxaway]

2 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

Ok, then Bethenny is still processing her anger.  Yes delete it.  Maybe hire something like a sober companion until you can read about drug related deaths without losing it.

In other news - Macy’s is carrying SG Jeans.  Bethenny at the NYC flagship store on the 12th.

Pardon my ignorance on the matter, but you seem to be in the know on this subject.  Wouldn’t the product have to already be delivered to Macy’s (for example) stores based on the release day of 9/10?  Like they would be in the “back room” ready to be set out on display on Monday?  Or how does this all work?  I had 1 retail job many years ago in HS, lol.  Maybe I need to ring up my best friends daughter who works in the stock room at Dillard’s and see if she has seen any secret boxes of jeans.   

[Rap541]

Oh please, the tweet was about opioids use and opioids aka "poison" being over prescribed in response to a 26 year old rapper being found dead after an OD - and basically people were whining that it wasn't fair to say the 26 year old with known substance abuse issues OD'd despite every media outlet reporting it. And what she  said was "So @MacMiller is dead. Lets keep prescribing poison when we have a toothache."

I can honestly say I found nothing offensive about that statement. It's not like she said "Another dumbass rapper killed himself with drugs" - which was my reaction to the tragedy. 

[Happy Camper]

3 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Oh please, the tweet was about opioids use and opioids aka "poison" being over prescribed in response to a 26 year old rapper being found dead after an OD - and basically people were whining that it wasn't fair to say the 26 year old with known substance abuse issues OD'd despite every media outlet reporting it. And what she  said was "So @MacMiller is dead. Lets keep prescribing poison when we have a toothache."

I can honestly say I found nothing offensive about that statement. It's not like she said "Another dumbass rapper killed himself with drugs" - which was my reaction to the tragedy. 

"So @Dennis Shields is dead. Lets keep prescribing poison when we have a toothache."

Too soon?

Edited September 8, 2018 by Happy Camper

[Rap541]

To be honest, that was kind of my feeling on it. Same with Heath Ledger - I tire of turning people who illegally use drugs into tragic heroes. 

And frankly, maybe Dennis *wouldn't be dead* if it wasn't so easy for him to score pills. Same with Mac Miller and Heath Ledger. I'd rather they be alive but apparently the important thing is to not say anything about what killed them, why they died, and how easy it still is for others to follow them into death. 

[QuinnM]

12 minutes ago, Happy Camper said:

So @Dennis Shields is dead. Lets keep prescribing poison when we have a toothache."

 

She’s said that and worse herself by now I bet.  The doctors and big pharm making billions off of peoples addiction is disgusting.  And this drug doesn’t care who you are.  You can be Prince or you can be the lovely 70 year old retiree next door.  You’ll die soon.

[BodhiGurl]

[jinjer]

Cheap looking outfit. Not stylish.

[Happy Camper]

8 minutes ago, BodhiGurl said:

Nope.

[SweetieDarling]

14 minutes ago, BodhiGurl said:

Nothing on the Macy's website. At least not yet.

Are they supposed to bunch in the hip/crotch area like that? Are they jeans or jeggings?

I, personally, don't like stretchy clingy "jeans" or bedazzling. I guess I'm old school when it comes to denim.

Edited September 8, 2018 by SweetieDarling

[QuinnM]

36 minutes ago, SweetieDarling said:

Nothing on the Macy's website. At least not yet.

Are they supposed to bunch in the hip/crotch area like that? Are they jeans or jeggings?

I, personally, don't like stretchy clingy "jeans" or bedazzling. I guess I'm old school when it comes to deni

I agree but all the cool girls on campus are wearing these.  I can say that this is from the old photos with the samples.  So first which items did Macy buy?  Did other store buy other items?  We’ll have to wait to find out.

For those asking about the process if you go to the SkinnyGirlBrand instagram and click on the story icon for the jeans (different logo than the drink) you get the show room, fit models etc from the fall collection.  Now remember just because you see an item doesn’t mean that it ever made it into production.  

There were some flares I would consider and like I said I have my eye on a winter hoodie.  But the clingy, I don’t know.  

[jinjer]

4 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

I agree but all the cool girls on campus are wearing these.  I can say that this is from the old photos with the samples.  So first which items did Macy buy?  Did other store buy other items?  We’ll have to wait to find out.

For those asking about the process if you go to the SkinnyGirlBrand instagram and click on the story icon for the jeans (different logo than the drink) you get the show room, fit models etc from the fall collection.  Now remember just because you see an item doesn’t mean that it ever made it into production.  

There were some flares I would consider and like I said I have my eye on a winter hoodie.  But the clingy, I don’t know.  

No I have a cool girl on campus. They aren't wearing these or the top. Just no. No. - esp those tops were last year and the year before.

Edited September 8, 2018 by jinjer

[geauxaway]

56 minutes ago, jinjer said:

Cheap looking outfit. Not stylish.

Her blacks don’t match!  ?. Yes I am petty like that and would expect more from B.  She is usually on point with her outfits.  

[Otherkate]

If you take a quick look at Shopbop, the whisking at the crotch area is pretty prevalent both for skinnies and mom jeans -- definitely more so for the skinnies and jeggings. J brand, Paige, CoH, AG all have it. 

I have stretchy skinnies and more high waisted loose jeans/mom jeans. What I choose depends upon the rest of my outfit + shoes and what best balances the frame. Seems to be fairly typical of women my age in NYC and the younger editors.

That said, I don't do bedazzled.

[Rosiejuliemom]

1 hour ago, BodhiGurl said:

I want to sew those sleeves up so damn bad.

It doesn't make any sense for a horizontal split to be right there! Especially one that big.

They done fucked up a perfectly serviceable t-shirt.

[babykin]

On 9/7/2018 at 5:08 PM, Jel said:

Love your honesty so much, Babykin.

That means so much JEL. Thank you. xo

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 hours ago, Rosiejuliemom said:

I want to sew those sleeves up so damn bad.

It doesn't make any sense for a horizontal split to be right there! Especially one that big.

They done fucked up a perfectly serviceable t-shirt.

The sleeve treatment movement has jumped the shark.  This is yet another photo of a model in SG jeans, showing a very ill-fitting crotch.  I don't think we should see genitalia, but there has to be a happy medium between camel toe and drop crotch, no?

Edited September 8, 2018 by SuprSuprElevated

[Happy Camper]

4 hours ago, BodhiGurl said:

I like the neckline on the shirt,  but the sleeves are fugly. Hate the jeans. The crinkly lines are horrible.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Happy Camper

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 minute ago, Happy Camper said:

The crinkly lines are horrible.

Caused by spandex/lycra/elastane.  As an unSkinnygirl, I run from s/l/e as it highlights lumps 'n bumps.  I need my stuff controlled, not enabled.  When someone develops the FluffyGurl line, I'll sign on as a fit model.

[Happy Camper]

2 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Caused by spandex/lycra/elastane.  As an unSkinnygirl, I run from s/l/e as it highlights lumps 'n bumps.  I need my stuff controlled, not enabled.  When someone develops the FluffyGurl line, I'll sign on as a fit model.

I like Jel's idea. Happy Woman jeans/wear. Skinny and Girl are both offensive when put together.

[geauxaway]

3 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Caused by spandex/lycra/elastane.  As an unSkinnygirl, I run from s/l/e as it highlights lumps 'n bumps.  I need my stuff controlled, not enabled.  When someone develops the FluffyGurl line, I'll sign on as a fit model.

Let us not forget the yoke jeans phase from the 80’s. They were more like pleated than this, but you get it.  

[albarino]

12 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

The fact that there has been no announcement about any deal with a retail chain may be saying something.  Just sayin.

Who even goes to stores to buy clothes these days?  Looks like you can buy the jeans on her website.  I'll buy them one of these days.

[geauxaway]

18 minutes ago, albarino said:

Who even goes to stores to buy clothes these days?  Looks like you can buy the jeans on her website.  I'll buy them one of these days.

If I’m going to pay $100 for a pair of jeans that I have no brand knowledge of,  hell yes I am going to go to a store and try them on. And I say this as a non try on person even in a store and a religious online shopper.  Once I know the fit and feel, then I’m back to online ordering.  Plenty of people still shop in stores. 

[CharlizeCat]

On 9/7/2018 at 10:32 PM, breezy424 said:

The fact that there has been no announcement about any deal with a retail chain may be saying something.  Just sayin.

I would put Nordstrom into higher end.  It's on par with Saks at the very least in my neck of the woods.  I don't picture Beth's jeans in Target or Walmart because of the price point.  Same with Kohl's.  So I don't know who her target is as this point.  I have a feeling that the product is going to end up at Marshalls  and TJ Maxx.

Brilliant. Ramona can buy up all the unsold SG clothing and sell it for pennies on the dollar. Wouldn't that be a bitter pill to swallow for Beth

Edited September 9, 2018 by CharlizeCat

[breezy424]

7 hours ago, BodhiGurl said:

Gosh, she really is bow legged and it so much more noticeable when she pictured in her jean collection.  

[breezy424]

6 hours ago, QuinnM said:

I agree but all the cool girls on campus are wearing these.  I can say that this is from the old photos with the samples.  So first which items did Macy buy?  Did other store buy other items?  We’ll have to wait to find out.

For those asking about the process if you go to the SkinnyGirlBrand instagram and click on the story icon for the jeans (different logo than the drink) you get the show room, fit models etc from the fall collection.  Now remember just because you see an item doesn’t mean that it ever made it into production.  

There were some flares I would consider and like I said I have my eye on a winter hoodie.  But the clingy, I don’t know.  

I guess it depends on the campus and what one considers cool.  My kids  and friends would disagree.

That top is just....

[hoodooznoodooz]

15 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

"Where are Skinnygirl Jeans be sold?"

Second time ever, a post here made me laugh audibly. 

[hoodooznoodooz]

8 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

https://realityblurb.com/2018/09/08/bethenny-frankel-deletes-tweet-about-mac-millers-death-after-fans-label-it-insensitive-plus-carole-radziwill-accuses-her-of-making-money-off-girls-she-skinny-shames/

Too late Bethenny. You can't just delete and expect that you never wrote it.

Say it, forget it. Write it.....

Why is Beth dressed like Blanche Devereaux here?

 

7 hours ago, SweetieDarling said:

Are they supposed to bunch in the hip/crotch area like that? Are they jeans or jeggings?

Maybe Lu should ask Beth if they can still retouch this photo.

[hoodooznoodooz]

7 hours ago, Otherkate said:

If you take a quick look at Shopbop, the whisking at the crotch area is pretty prevalent both for skinnies and mom jeans -- definitely more so for the skinnies and jeggings. J brand, Paige, CoH, AG all have it. 

I have stretchy skinnies and more high waisted loose jeans/mom jeans. What I choose depends upon the rest of my outfit + shoes and what best balances the frame. Seems to be fairly typical of women my age in NYC and the younger editors.

That said, I don't do bedazzled.

Well, she’s all about branding and consistency, right?

TrueRenewal. TruRenewal. TrooRenewal. Tsk, tsk, Ramona.

Beth and Skinny Girl have become synonymous with clever and original “vagina this” and “vagina that” jokes. So it makes good business sense to promote jeans with whisking that pulls focus to the vagina area.

Edited September 9, 2018 by hoodooznoodooz

[ichbin]

32 minutes ago, CharlizeCat said:

On 9/7/2018 at 11:32 PM, breezy424 said:

The fact that there has been no announcement about any deal with a retail chain may be saying something.  Just sayin.

I would put Nordstrom into higher end.  It's on par with Saks at the very least in my neck of the woods.  I don't picture Beth's jeans in Target or Walmart because of the price point.  Same with Kohl's.  So I don't know who her target is as this point.  I have a feeling that the product is going to end up at Marshalls  and TJ Maxx.

Brilliant. Ramona can buy up all the unsold SG clothing and sell it for pennies on the dollar. Wouldn't that be a bitter pill to swallow for Bet

Hasn't it been reported that Sonja has dabbled in resale for her collection?  That could be another outlet. 

I'll take a look on Amazon or 6pm in the near future to see if they wind up there at a discount. 

All the hype about these pants being for all sizes is kind of ridiculous.  If a larger sized person is well proportioned and not particularly bottom heavy that has the possibility of being true, but skinny jeans on someone carrying their extra weight in their legs from top to bottom can look like knockwurst in comparison to frankfurters.  It's a matter of what is flattering to particular body types and not just offering larger sizes.  

[hoodooznoodooz]

16 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Send them to the next hurricane zone with a gift card in each pocket.

 

I’m dead.

Guys, stop making me laugh. I’m supposed to go to sleep soon.

[weaver]

I see much more athletic wear than jeans on the younger crowd now.  I don't think its the right time to get into the market.  There is always a market for jeans though so we will see.  Khloe did well with her jeans, and they got quite good reviews. Don't know how well her sales have done recently though.   I see exactly nobody wearing the kind of outfit that is in the ad.  

September 10th is a big Jewish holiday, so I was rather surprised that it was the launch date.  September 11th is a serious day in Manhattan; you wouldn't use it for any celebratory purposes.     I guess the real release date is Sept 12th if that is when she is in the store.  

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

15 hours ago, Happy Camper said:

"So @Dennis Shields is dead. Lets keep prescribing poison when we have a toothache."

Too soon?

✔? 

Oh what I'd pay to watch 5 or 6 random women of diff body fits/sizes/styles show up impromptu for Bethenny to fit and style in her crappy new low crotch jeans. What a shit show that would be. A natural foods CHEF fitting shitty bedazzled jeans on people off the cuff. She is such a joke. 

[pasdetrois]

Quote

And frankly, maybe Dennis *wouldn't be dead* if it wasn't so easy for him to score pills.

There was debate about why he had Narcan on hand. I heard a cop say that Narcan is now being used by addicts as a fail-safe tool. In other words, they plan to use opioids but keep Narcan nearby in case they need it. Kind of a 2018 Russian Roulette.

[SweetieDarling]

14 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

The sleeve treatment movement has jumped the shark.  This is yet another photo of a model in SG jeans, showing a very ill-fitting crotch.  I don't think we should see genitalia, but there has to be a happy medium between camel toe and drop crotch, no?

THAT's why they fit Sonja so well!...there's extra room for her jitney diaper. It all makes sense now.

[Juneau Gal]

12 hours ago, weaver said:

I see much more athletic wear than jeans on the younger crowd now.  I don't think its the right time to get into the market.  There is always a market for jeans though so we will see.  Khloe did well with her jeans, and they got quite good reviews. Don't know how well her sales have done recently though.   I see exactly nobody wearing the kind of outfit that is in the ad.  

September 10th is a big Jewish holiday, so I was rather surprised that it was the launch date.  September 11th is a serious day in Manhattan; you wouldn't use it for any celebratory purposes.     I guess the real release date is Sept 12th if that is when she is in the store.  

Didn’t B go off on Heather when Heather was launching a jeans line? Telling her to stick with her brand, what she knows, and not diversify too much? Or did I just dream that? 

[Rosiejuliemom]

35 minutes ago, Juneau Gal said:

Didn’t B go off on Heather when Heather was launching a jeans line? Telling her to stick with her brand, what she knows, and not diversify too much? Or did I just dream that? 

She said that Heather should go into athletic wear...while holding a pair of Yummie leggings.

[SuprSuprElevated]

52 minutes ago, Juneau Gal said:

Didn’t B go off on Heather when Heather was launching a jeans line? Telling her to stick with her brand, what she knows, and not diversify too much? Or did I just dream that? 

So, you're saying that pre-mixed margarita swill and stretchy, drop-crotch denim aren't a cohesive product mix?

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 9/8/2018 at 2:19 AM, geauxaway said:

Ha.  I had a Baby Phat tank top when it was cool.  But that fad went out about the same time as Rollin with my homies / snowmies / Biggie Smalls (RIP) / get off my jock. God bless the 90’s.  I was more of a Lucky Brand jeans bitch anyways.  Do those even exist anymore???  Not gonna lie, I still have a plethora of Lucky brand hoodies packed in storage in my basement. ?

bringing back to B.  Jeans come and go.  She may have a good year or so and then the next great thing comes along. 

(ducking) I think Baby PHAT and Juicy are cute and clever brand names. I would not wear the logos/names, because I am not, unfortunately, PHAT, nor are any of my body parts Juicy. If I had had a Juicy toosh in my 20s, I probably would have worn the pants. Probably. Maybe.

Edited September 11, 2018 by hoodooznoodooz