S04.E04: The Apprentice

[KAOS Agent]

So I watched the Henry/Regina scenes again (apparently I am a masochist) and I have to say that when Regina, the party who is hurting the most over the whole Marian/Robin thing and who is all about blame casting and revenge, is the one who is being quite rational about everything, you know Henry's got problems. I really loved her shutting him down about inserting himself into her love life too. Letting him go work undercover with the Dark One, whom she knows at least considered killing Henry at one point, was where she went from being sensible (outside of the whole come to my vault and play with dangerous vials of magic) to an epic fail. 

 

As to the whole Henry's really, really bad at sweeping, did anyone else notice that he was sweeping the dirt under the counter or under the rug as it were? It fits with the crazy whitewashing he's got going on in his head about Regina's past actions.

[Rumsy4]

The show has always positioned Henry as the kid who farts rainbows and has a sunshine halo--the heart/moral center/whatever of the show. Him lying to/manipulating Rumpel in the way he did is *not* something that the Golden Child is supposed to do.

The thing is, Henry's always been manipulative, but this time, he showed a finesse worthy of the Dark One himself. Using his deas dad to manipulate his grandfather was gross. Besides, S1 Henry would not have revelled in Frozen!Marian. With the way he's steadily been whitewashing Regina's past, it looks like his own moral compass has become skewed.

[Radka222]

This article reminded me so much of this:

Hand, in jar, in your bag!

[Curio]

Oh, cool. It looks like Zelena Rumple used Hook's past bad behavior to make his current self feel guilty, but tricked him during the process by pretending to be Ariel using reverse psychology, which makes him feel like even more shit. And now that his lips are cursed he's locked into Rumple's deal, he feels like he has no choice but to keep it a secret from Emma. Of course, the truth will come out in a couple episodes anyways and Emma will be upset, but all will be forgiven when Hook seemingly dies in a water barrel probably from some frozen side effects and Emma wakes him up using horrible CPR True Love's Kiss. Gag me, writers. You're better than this.
 

I couldn't tell if Rumple was lying about the hand not being cursed or not. Hook's punches seemed out of character.

The multiple punches seemed way out of character, so I'm going to go with the hand actually being cursed and Rumple is just using reverse-reverse-reverse psychology to trick him into being his henchman. Also out of character: randomly stabbing Rumple in the chest with his hook in the car, holding down an old man in a chair while he gets sucked into a weird magical hat vortex, and even that little shove to the waiter while he rushed ahead to pull out the chair for Emma. If it turns out that was 100% current Hook, I call bullshit.

 

But I won't completely focus on the negative here. Can we all take a moment and appreciate how Emma got to spend an entire evening forgetting about her savior duties and all the horrible things happening in Storybrooke right now? That's huge! For that, I give you a standing ovation, Captain Hand!

Edited October 20, 2014 by Curio

[queenbee]

Did I misunderstand or was it said in the episode that the power from the hat would be strong enough that Rumple would no longer need the dagger? I think there was some speculation about this (not based on spoilers). I suppose I can infer from this that this is how Rumble is justifying his lying to Belle--he can eventually give up the dagger for real.

 

Belle is not very popular on this board, I know, but I think that the writers need to do a better job of tying her to the main cast. Otherwise the emotional fallout (or what counts for it on this show) for her when she finds out about Rumple's lies just... won't be there. It actually feels inconsistent to me that we are not seeing any sign of Rumpled feeling "torn" about telling his lies to Belle; its always seemed before that he has felt guilt over hurting his loved ones, even though the guilt was never enough to stop him.

 

Even though character wise I don't buy Hook going to Gold for a deal, I love evil Rumple and Colin and Bobby are great together. The apprentice was also a great character.

 

I'm wondering if Hook is going to spill the beans, but I also wonder if Rumple isn't going to be responsible for his own undoing.

[Mari]

Letting him go work undercover with the Dark One, whom she knows at least considered killing Henry at one point, was where she went from being sensible (outside of the whole come to my vault and play with dangerous vials of magic) to an epic fail. 

Well, yes, Regina did send Henry in under cover with a man who-not even a year and a half ago, in-show--was planning to kill him, fairly shortly after the man's only real reason to keep Henry alive died.  But, the thing is, Regina deserves her happy ending, and right now, that's a wedding!  A wedding is far, far more important than pesky details like Henry being in a dangerous situation. 

 

Okay, so we don't know if she's planning her wedding with Daniel or Robin.  Or if she's just planning on having someone else off Marian, or if she just wants the past changed so that she succeeded in killing Marian the first time.

 

So she might have to sacrifice Henry--Rumple had to sacrifice Baelfire--but, hey!  Happy Ending!  All is well.

 

(This makes no sense.  If it doesn't backfire on Henry and Regina . . . .)

[patchwork]

Oh look it's this storyline again: the villain uses blackmail to make Hook do what they want. As seen with Pan, Zelena and now Rumple.

 

For variety's sake let's revisit the Peter Pan reaction and have Hook tell Rumple where to stuff it or better yet tell Emma and good gets to be smart for once and they use this opportunity to trap the Dark One in the hat. 

 

Cursed lips, cursed hand, I really hate to think what body part is going to be cursed next. 

 

Other things happened in this episode I know they did, like a very cute date and Snow remembering her daughter Emma, but the sheer amount of stupid in this blackmail plot has over ridden all other elements of the episode. 

[mythoughtis]

I'm not on board with this Frozen arc.  I like my OUAT to be classical fairy tales.  I didn't go watch Frozen (no grandkids), so I'm just not feeling the love here.  However, they have found a role that Elizabeth Mitchell can finally carry off.  When would Emma have met the Snow Queen?  Has to have been somewhere in this world, rather than Fairy Tale Land. 

 

Henry: this is a continuation of last seasons emphasis on Henry having some darkness in his heart along with being a 'true Believer'.   I also think Henry hasn't had any experience with individuals living in Stonybrook that would be dead in Fairy Tale land.  Marion is only alive because Emma spirited her forward in time.

 

Interesting to see Will Scarlett and the book.  I think we are supposed to feel that Will has been tragically separated from the Red Queen. That, or it is at least a tidbit to make us feel that Will actually belongs in Storybrook (as opposed to Elsa).

[Amerilla]

I haven't watched the entire episode yet, but I was perusing some clips on YouTube over my breakfast waffle, and I love that even a one-minute scene can bring so many unintended laughs.

For instance, where Emma spins out on the ice and begins chasing DQ. As usual for TV, he lady walking casually in the full-length gown managed to evade Emma running after her and vanishes. Then Belle calls and Emma answers "Now's not a great time." Cut to Will passed out on the floor and scene.

"Now's not a great time"?? Is the City of Storybrooke paying for this stellar level of community policing? (Oh, so sorry my actual crime is interfereing with your standing there looking confused.) Did she think Belle was just calling to say that her copy of 'How to Talk So Your One-Handed Pirate Will Listen/How to Listen So Your One-Handed Pirate Will Talk' was in? Or for recommendations on buying a phone that doesn't weight as much as the Oxford English Dictionary? Did Jen have it written in her contract that she has to pull her gun at least once every episode, or is that the work of geek-boy showrunners who think a lady holding a Glock is mega-hot? After three seasons, why has Emma not learned that waving a gun at a magical being has no effect, ever? How does the super-fit person running full-tilt always manage to get left in the ice-dust by the person who is slowly walking in these shows? So many questions.

Having working public libraries, I can attest that you do run into the occasional person passed out on the floor, and yes, the appropriate response is to call the police. (The nutter that used to disappear into the men's room with an Eleanor Roosevelt biography for hours on end...Him, I probably would have called the Dark One on.) But it is the weirdness of this show that Belle calls Emma - the woman now dating the man who shot Belle in the back and spent maybe 12 hot minutes in custody before being allowed to wander off and nearly kill Belle's now-husband - for her law enforcement needs. And that passes for normal in this little burg.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Amerilla

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I don't know if Hook's hand was evil or not, but if that's evil, Lindsey's evil hand on Angel is like evil up to eleven.

"Stop, evil hand, stop it!"

Edited October 20, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Guest Accused Dingo]

:unpopular opinion alert; I never could figure out why people hate Henry so mich. Not liking a character is one thing bit the hate for him is confusing. For me Henry is neutral. He has his moments. I have been liking him lately. I enjoy he scenes with Reguba and i am actually interested in operation mongoose. :end unpopular opinion alwrt.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Accused Dingo

[HoodlumSheep]

:unpopular opinion alert; I never could figure out why people hate Henry so mich. Not liking a character is one thing bit the hate for him is confusing. For me Henry is neutral. He has his moments. I have been liking him lately. I enjoy he scenes with Reguba and i am actually interested in operation mongoose. :end unpopular opinion alwrt.

Henry's always been neutral for me too. He has his moments. It'll be interesting to see where Operation Mongoose goes.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Snow with the GIANT POLAROID CAMERA from, like, 1993.

And Gold's VHS tape from the security camera! Maybe they're both hipsters? Heh, maybe they can join the Darlings' band.

Edited October 20, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[kili]

But it is the weirdness of this show that Belle calls Emma - the woman now dating the man who shot Belle in the back and spent maybe 12 hot minutes in custody before being allowed to wander off and nearly kill Belle's now-husband - for her law enforcement needs.

 

In fairness to Belle, it was Deputy Charming that allowed Hook to wander off while Emma was extorted to go on a road-trip with Belle's now-husband, so Emma may be the Sheriff she trusts more for her law enforcement needs. And she did marry the guy who nearly beat her own father to death because he thought her father had stolen a broken tea cup (a crime for which Rumple spent 6 minutes in jail for), so she's pretty forgiving, anyway.

 

If Storybrooke has an Italian restaurant, why do people keep going to Grannie's for frozen, re-heated lasagne?

Who is hoping that while cleaning the store, hapless Henry knocks over the jar of liquid containing Hook's hand (maybe it can then crawl across the floor and strangle somebody)?

Why would the apprentice even have his own security system? If Hook knew the world better, he would know that was the biggest lie of all. That tape probably contains Rumple's well-used copy of "Beauty and the Beast".

Why is the apprentice surprised that Rumple has the hat box? Can he not remember his life as a mouse where he valiantly bit Rumple?

When are we going to find that stupid message in the bottle? From the way the mother was going on about getting the girls the truth, I don't think that truth was "We are afraid of Elsa. Anna, you should be too".

Why does Rumple sometimes require a written contract and sometimes just a verbal agreement. I'd like to see Judge Judy adjudicate some of those verbal agreements.

Edited October 20, 2014 by kili

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I loved the Ursula-esque appearance of Anna's contract!

[YaddaYadda]

Why is the apprentice surprised that Rumple has the hat box? Can he not remember his life as a mouse where he valiantly bit Rumple?

 

Anna took the box, so technically Rumple shouldn't even have it if he hadn't been squatting in that manor that doesn't belong to him.

 

While I enjoyed the hell out of that scene with Hook/Emma at Granny's (RIP 50lbs coat, I'll miss you!), my reaction was basically, he's such a bum!  Playing darts, give him something else to do, like a job!!  Does he have a magical bag that produces doubloons at will or something? 

 

Hook is very much a two speed character.  He either thinks with his head or his heart.  He's a moron when he lets himself be ruled by his heart.

 

I'm someone who absolutely hates Henry and thinks the show can do without him.  I have issues with children who butt out in adult business.  And the stuff he told Regina was just...seriously.  Between the opening scene with Emma where she's asking him if he's sure and him replying "no" and then telling Regina she should basically be happy that Marian is frozen because then she can just be with Robin, that was just too much for me.  I'd like to think that his reticence towards Hook might have to do with him feeling he will be taking his father's place, but then Emma and Neal have not been together in longer than Henry has been alive and he was pretty okay with spending time with Hook and enjoyed hearing stories about Bae.  So I'm not even sure.

 

And now he's going to manipulate his grandpa who is the Dark One.  Rumple loved only one person and that person was Baelfire.  I don't think he'll give a rat's ass that Henry is his grandson.  Or maybe Rumple uses Henry to force Regina and/or Emma into the hat.  Total flashbacks of the little sod giving his heart to Pan.

[kili]

Anna took the box, so technically Rumple shouldn't even have it if he hadn't been squatting in that manor that doesn't belong to him.

 

But he said something about how no Dark One has ever gotten their hands on the box. He knew Rumple had gotten the box even if he also knew that Anna had stolen it.

 

I wonder what Rumple is going to do to Anna. Biting his hand got the apprentice sucked into a box. Anna not only went back on a signed contract, she held the dagger, made him do things and stole something from him. The last woman to hold his dagger and make him do things wound up dead. He wanted to kill Robin Hood for stealing from him (Belle convinced him not to do it) and did torture him. And that was for something he just kind of wanted - not something he really, really wanted. Broken contracts usually don't end well (speaking of which...nice to hear Rip van Winkle awoke from that long sleep Rumple put him in for breaking their deal).

Edited October 20, 2014 by kili

[AmeliaBedelia]

This episode was very uneven for me. I was pleasantly surprised I didn't experience secondhand embarrassment over the date (I love Captain Swan, but I hate intentional awkwardness on television). While I wasn't embarrassed, I definitely wanted more meat to the date. I thought we'd get to see Emma ask Hook some questions about himself. Instead, we got Hook looking at his "evil" hand in half of their scenes.

 

Pacing, as always, was my biggest issue with this episode. The Hook/Rumple stuff could have easily been spread out over two or three episodes. Hook both got and lost his hand in a short amount of time. That is one plot point that should have been given space to breathe. Letting things unfold more slowly would solve some of the writer's problems with juggling multiple storylines. Did I need to see what felt like twenty minutes of Anna? Not really. I truly missed Elsa and wanted more Snow Queen. Also, will Charming ever get to hold his new kid?

 

The little moments did ultimately make me feel positively towards this episode. Hook and Emma held hands twice! Snow and Charming got to fawn over their daughter for a bit. Emma wore Hook's jacket. Will and Hook both said bloody hell and Will was snuggling Alice in Wonderland.

 

Not sure how I feel about the Apprentice stuff. My mom hated Fantasia, so I never got to watch it as a kid. Don't like the idea of Henry getting more screentime. He's at that age when kids should be shipped off to boarding school. He's no longer young enough to be awww cute, but he's too young to be involved in the more interesting adult plots.

 

[daxx]

I am truly hoping this is a repeat of Good Form, rather than The Jolly Roger and Hook will tell Emma and they then reverse con Rumple. Otherwise Killian is being super stupid for obvious plot reasons and will piss me off a bit. They should be past the point of lying and keeping secrets since he knows so well how that worked out before. There are far more interesting ways to add angst to the relationship that doesn't involve Hook betraying Emma's trust.

[Mari]

:unpopular opinion alert; I never could figure out why people hate Henry so mich. Not liking a character is one thing bit the hate for him is confusing. :end unpopular opinion alwrt.

I can't tell you why people hate Henry in general--I haven't--but I can explain a little about why it's ballooning this season.

 

I expect Regina to have a completely selfish, screwed-up moral compass.  Regina is, at nearly all times, all about Regina's feelings in that moment.  However, Henry has always taken into account what is the "right" thing to do, and recognized that while Regina cared for him, she was not a good role model, and did not make good decisions.

 

Suddenly, they made Henry into a character who is just fine plotting semi-evil plots with Regina, who cheerleads her decisions, and who actively plans on going into Operation Mongoose--which is so very vague and badly written that it doesn't even make sense.

 

It doesn't make sense that 10 year old Henry could see the difference between right and wrong more clearly than 12 year old Henry, and it doesn't make sense that Henry is spouting things like "You were never evil!  This making the writer change the book is a great plan!  Operation Mongoose!" 

 

On top of that, he continues to be creepily interested in his mothers' dating lives.  I have no problem with him wanting to know the persons they are (were) dating, but having the twelve year old give advice and (as of last season) arrange sleepovers with their significant others is a little much.  As for him passing judgment on whether or not his mother can date the person?  Um . . . what?

 

It would be less frustrating if the show were presenting it as "Yes, Regina and Henry are bonding, but it's not in a healthy way." rather than "Yay!  Awesome secret plot!".  Plus, since the show has a truly terrible history when it comes to presenting Regina's story as anything other than Yay!  Regina!  no matter what she does, people are expecting it to turn out that way.  Henry is not only getting badly written kid fall out, but badly written Regina backsplash.

[TigerLynx]

They’re already sandbagging Emma and Hook?  Why?  I hope Hook realizes ASAP that he needs to tell Emma everything.

[Amerilla]

In fairness to Belle, it was Deputy Charming that allowed Hook to wander off while Emma was extorted to go on a road-trip with Belle's now-husband, so Emma may be the Sheriff she trusts more for her law enforcement needs. And she did marry the guy who nearly beat her own father to death because he thought her father had stolen a broken tea cup (a crime for which Rumple spent 6 minutes in jail for), so she's pretty forgiving, anyway.

Sorry, I didn't put that as clearly as I wanted to - my brain is still half-asleep.

It's not specific to Belle and Emma as characters, I just think it's funny that writers never seem to give any thought to how characters have intertwined in the past, and how that might logically play out. Everything is feels like it's based on "We need [Emma] to go the [Library] to find [Will], so we'll have [belle] [make a phone call] and BAM! That scene's done, let's order pizza!" You can sort of plug and play depending on the on the needs of the moment or the availabilty of actors or sets: "We need [David] to find [Will] passed out in the [bookstore], so we'll have him [see a broken window] while out [walking with Snow and Snowflake]" or "We need [Red] to find [Will] passed out in front of the [diner] clutching a page from the book he stole from the [Library.]" (KnaveWolf - it could be a thing.)

Especially with the tight half-season arc, a lot of things come down to finding the shortest distance between two plot points, and that gets the PLOT PLOT PLOT job done, but it sacrifices characterization in the process. This scene is a trivial example, but it plays out on all levels - would Henry really use the memory of Nealfire as a blunt weapon to get something from Gold? Would Hook go to Gold for his hand? Would Gold even bother to ensnare Hook? Those are some big character questions that are just hanging out there, unaddressed by the script.

On another subject: Elsa's line about "Is that just the corset? Where's the rest of it?" -- I wonder if they really meant "Is that the petticoat?" Because it did look plausibly like a slip you would wear under a full gown to poof out the skirt. Maybe they just thought the younger audience wouldn't know what a petticoat is? Or they just don't Google this crap?

Edited October 20, 2014 by Amerilla

[Dani-Ellie]

It doesn't make sense that 10 year old Henry could see the difference between right and wrong more clearly than 12 year old Henry, and it doesn't make sense that Henry is spouting things like "You were never evil!  This making the writer change the book is a great plan!  Operation Mongoose!"

 

Exactly. This isn't the badass little boy who hopped a bus from Maine to Massachusetts to bring back the happy endings in the form of Emma. This isn't the same little badass who told Regina that she was going to lose because good always won. This is a Pod Person Henry who is all of a sudden thinking someone should be happy someone else is under a freezing curse. This is a Pod Person Henry who believes the book is wrong about Regina (when I still don't understand what there is to be wrong about). Season 1 Henry would be looking at Season 4 Henry going, "All right, Mom, what the hell spell did you cast on me?"

[Curio]

So how can the Mickey Mouse Apprentice bite the hand of Rumple hard enough for him to cry out in pain and drop his dagger, but Hook stabbing him in the chest gets no physical reaction? Huh?

 

And here's my super crazy theory that explains why we only got 15 seconds of the Captain Swan date: it will be revealed that Emma was already catching onto Hook's changed behavior during the date, but didn't want to bring it up. They'll reveal in a flashback in the next episode that Emma actually followed him that night after they said their goodbyes, saw him get into the car with Rumple, and connected the dots. She'll give him time to come clean, but eventually she'll come out and say she knows he's working with Rumple. And this will all happen right away. Like, within the first 5 minutes of the next episode. And then we can avoid all this stupid secret keeping stuff from happening again.*

 

*ETA: Please note - this is a horrible, horrible idea. But I'd honestly take anything over a repeat of the cursed lips plot again.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Curio

[HoodlumSheep]

The multiple punches seemed way out of character, so I'm going to go with the hand actually being cursed and Rumple is just using reverse-reverse-reverse psychology to trick him into being his henchman. Also out of character: randomly stabbing Rumple !

Honestly, this episode my brain explode. I don't know what to believe anymore concerning whether or not the hand was cursed. Rumple warns him that the hand is bad, then he says it's just hook, but then he also admitted to being a lying liar who lies all the time. I don't know what to think. It makes me sort of excited, because I'm not quite sure how this whole ordeal is going to turn out. I'm also worried for the exact same reason, because knowing A&E, this could all go horribly wrong.

And assuming that the author is the same as the real sorcerer, I'm actually surprised how they seem to be setting up this season long arc so early on.

As for everything that was ooc for Killy, i honestly loved it when he stabbed Rumple knowing it's pointless to try harming him. I love to hate SparklyDark! Rumple and I love Rumple and Hook as arch-nemeses. I also cheered when Anna bested Rumple, even though it will surely come back to bite her.

Seriously hoping Hook tells emma. He should know better after the zelena debacle. Come on A&E, don't let me down (probably unlikely, but I can dream)!

[resonance]

:unpopular opinion alert; I never could figure out why people hate Henry so mich. Not liking a character is one thing bit the hate for him is confusing. For me Henry is neutral. He has his moments. I have been liking him lately. I enjoy he scenes with Reguba and i am actually interested in operation mongoose. :end unpopular opinion alwrt.

The actor is bad and when he started going through puberty it went to worse. I just can't get past his bad acting every scene I see him in.

[Dirtybubble]

Can we all take a moment and appreciate how Emma got to spend an entire evening forgetting about her savior duties and all the horrible things happening in Storybrooke right now?

Pfft and yet she wore a Sweet 16 dress for her date.  Gurl please!  What happened to that sexy, tight, red dress you wore back in the Pilot episode?  This dress just seemed so out of character for her. 

[Ariah]

Well, Hook did come to the sheriff's office to talk to Emma, but got distracted by Will's presence in the cage. I'm hoping he came to tell Emma the truth.

 

I mean - the truth worked well in the Good Form episode! Why do the writers forget about that little fact?

 

But still I guess the writers are following the motto "Evil always wins because good is stupid".

[Randomosity]

New here, but had to sign up because the way they made Hook dumber than a brick last night enraged me.
 
Synopsis of these few episodes:
E: I trust you.
K: Sweet.
E: So we can be all cute and shmooopy now :) <3
K: Good stuff.  Lemme just go sell my soul to the devil first.  brb
E: ?
E: wtf
 
However, can we agree that it was wonderfully awesome how sincere and vulnerable Hook looked when he asked Emma for a second date?

[InsertWordHere]

Pfft and yet she wore a Sweet 16 dress for her date.  Gurl please!  What happened to that sexy, tight, red dress you wore back in the Pilot episode?  This dress just seemed so out of character for her. 

I don't know that we can use the Pilot dress as evidence of how Emma typically dresses when she's on a date. After all, that date was really part of her job. The black leather dress she wore on the date with Walsh could perhaps be evidence of her usual date wardrobe, but even then, that was false memory Emma and not our Emma.

On another subject: Elsa's line about "Is that just the corset? Where's the rest of it?" -- I wonder if they really meant "Is that the petticoat?" Because it did look plausibly like a slip you would wear under a full gown to poof out the skirt. Maybe they just thought the younger audience wouldn't know what a petticoat is? Or they just don't Google this crap?

I thought she should have used "chemise" or just a vague "why are you wearing your underclothes outside?" I also thought her line about Kristoff dating Anna, as funny as it was, was out of place. Elsa would not refer to Kristoff and Anna's courtship as dating, but maybe she was translating for her audience and calling it a date to compare it to the present situation.

Edited October 20, 2014 by InsertWordHere

[scenicbyway]

I don't know that we can use the Pilot dress as evidence of how Emma typically dresses when she's on a date. After all, that date was really part of her job. The black leather dress she wore on the date with Walsh could perhaps be evidence of her usual date wardrobe, but even then, that was false memory Emma and not our Emma.

I thought she should have used "chemise" or just a vague "why are you wearing your underclothes outside?" I also thought her line about Kristoff dating Anna, as funny as it was, was out of place. Elsa would not refer to Kristoff and Anna's courtship as dating, but maybe she was translating for her audience and calling it a date to compare it to the present situation.

Emma's dress was supposed to be showing the audience that Hook makes Emma feel feminine and girly.  I think if Emma had worn the red dress from the pilot, they never would've left the bug, or they would've headed straight for Hook's room.  Emma's dress made the date feel special with a hint of innocence.  The kind of hand holding they were doing on the date was anything but innocent.  Those two have it bad.  Too bad it probably won't get resolved until next year.  As someone pointed out it's been 2 years since they met, a year since their first kiss and now their first date.  I suppose we'll be waiting another year for more development.

[Spartan Girl]

Anna and Elsa's parents suck.

 

The Charmings, on the other hand, continue to be laughably hilarious.  Emma really does need to move out, but I love these awkward family moments.

 

It's always one step forward and two steps back with Captain Swan, isn't it?

[FabulousTater]

Emma's dress was supposed to be showing the audience that Hook makes Emma feel feminine and girly.

Well, it wasn't even that really. I wouldn't say Emma ever feels unfeminine. The point was that she was in a different emotional place and the dress reflected that.

 

Here's an interview excerpt with Jennifer Morrison (hitfix.com interview where she discusses the date and dress) that says it best:

 

"This is the first time that Emma is wearing something that's softer and gentler and sweeter and romantic. To me, that was really important, because I wanted it to be symbolic of something very different than the other times we've seen her on a date. We've seen her with the guy who was a perpetrator that she was after and that was a ruse, that was her just playing a character in order to catch this guy. So she sorta played the stereotypical 'date' look. And then we saw her on a date Walsh when she was in New York and she was still having to make her own way and she was a single mom and she was into black leather there's something still kinda tough and edgy about that. And now, she really likes this guy and she's very genuine about it and it needs to be something that she found in Storybrooke, because she wouldn't have had something like that in her wardrobe, so it needs to look like it could have come from Storybrooke, but it also needs to look like something that she feels comfortable in. It's definitely the softest, most romantic side of her and the fact that she feels safe enough and inspired to express that part of herself to him, I think was a really important thing to show."

Edited October 20, 2014 by FabulousTater

[RadioGirl27]

Before the season began, I was sure that I was going to hate it, but I thought it would be because of the Frozen storyline. And here I am, hating everything except the Frozen bits, I love Elsa and Kristoff and I'm starting to like Anna (even if she is way too cute and cheerful for my taste). But everything else, it gets worse every week.

I love to see Robert Carlyle and Colin O'Donoghue working together, but the plot with the cursed hand and the deal was so stupid. They are reusing a bad storyline and making it even worse. By the way, I guess next week they would put a big neon sing above Hook's head with "Dead Man Walking" written on it, because, in every episode this season, has been at least one reference to his death or his survival skills.

And let's not start with Henry. So he is OK with Robin and Regina, even if he is a married man, but he is not OK with Emma and Hook, when he seemed to like him just fine last season (and really, he is back in Storybrooke and with Regina because Hook traded his ship for a bean and went looking for him and Emma).

At least, the 15 seconds date was cute and so it was the reunion between Anna and Kristoff.

Edited October 20, 2014 by RadioGirl27

[LucidDreamer]

Speaking of the Sorcerer: he's totally going to be the one who wrote the book, right?

 

And his name is....

Walt.

[scenicbyway]

Anna and Elsa's parents suck.

 

 

Do they though?  I'm not convinced that the "Dark One" was telling Anna the truth.  We don't even know if they made it to the Enchanted Forest.  Wouldn't the parents have sent the girls a letter letting them know they had arrived?  I hope the message in a bottle from the Queen comes back up, but I'm not holding my breath since things like Zelena needing Regina's blood last season, didn't make a bit of difference to the plot. 

 

On another note.  I was glad to see Hook's hand preserved again.  It probably isn't cursed which means at some point (a wedding perhaps?) the hand could be restored again.

Edited October 20, 2014 by scenicbyway

[KingOfHearts]

 

Him lying to/manipulating Rumpel in the way he did is *not* something that the Golden Child is supposed to do.

Henry has lied/manipulated through the whole show though, all the way back to S1. In fact, in The Return he tried to distract Rumple with the lie "I want to get a gift for Ms. Blanchard" so August could search the back room. He lied to Archie about a school field trip in 1x01, he lied to Regina about meeting for lunch and to Charming about going to school in 2x03, he lied to Emma about staying at Granny's in 3x19, he manipulated Emma several times to go with her into danger, and stole a credit card from MM.

 

If Henry feels the endgoal is for the "greater good", then he'll lie, manipulate and steal. Here is no different - getting intelligence to help Regina find her happy ending is his current "gift" to humanity.

Edited October 20, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Dani-Ellie]

If Henry feels the endgoal is for the "greater good", then he'll lie, manipulate and steal. Here is no different - getting intelligence to help Regina find her happy ending is his current "gift" to humanity.

 

I can see that, and I can even see where Henry would think that Regina being happy is part of the greater good (because an unhappy Regina makes for a very tenuous time in Storybrooke), but I think they're taking it way too far. The Henry I know would never be telling Regina she should be happy that she hasn't found a way to save Marian. The Henry I know would never think the book is wrong. The Henry I know would never think Rumple having a wife but losing his son is a happy ending. And I think playing the "I'm here for a gift for my teacher" card is a few steps removed from playing the "you're my only connection to my poor dead dad" card. Who the hell is this kid, and what did he do with Henry?

Edited October 20, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[stealinghome]

Henry has lied/manipulated through the whole show though, all the way back to S1. In fact, in The Return he tried to distract Rumple with the lie "I want to get a gift for Ms. Blanchard" so August could search the back room. He lied to Archie about a school field trip in 1x01, he lied to Regina about meeting for lunch and to Charming about going to school in 2x03, he lied to Emma about staying at Granny's in 3x19, he manipulated Emma several times to go with her into danger, and stole a credit card from MM.

 

If Henry feels the endgoal is for the "greater good", then he'll lie, manipulate and steal. Here is no different - getting intelligence to help Regina find her happy ending is his current "gift" to humanity.

True--I guess I should have been more specific. I think that lying about someone's beloved, dead son (who is your freaking father, no less!!!) to emotionally manipulate the dead man's loving, grieving father is an incredibly awful thing to do.* imo, it's way beyond "oh, my mom said I could be here!" or "I'm on a school trip, really." It's just...awful. We've never seen Henry do anything close to this level of disgusting, and I just can't believe that the writers could be totally oblivious to how gross it is. Is that the kind of thing the so-called heart/moral center of the show should be doing?

 

*=and yes, Rumpel manipulates people like this all the time, but it doesn't make it any less wrong when it's turned back on him. It might be karmic, and I might not have much (any) sympathy for Rumpel, but it still doesn't speak well at all of Henry.

[RadioGirl27]

 Who the hell is this kid, and what did he do with Henry?

Maybe he is still Peter Pan!

[KingOfHearts]

 

True--I guess I should have been more specific. I think that lying about someone's beloved, dead son (who is your freaking father, no less!!!) to emotionally manipulate the dead man's loving, grieving father is an incredibly awful thing to do.

It's the same kid who basically killed himself in front of his parents because he thought it was for the greater good. I admit his lie to Rumple is bad, but it's nothing past Henry for me personally. I'm more disturbed by his twisted beliefs about Regina's book stuff. Even Regina seemed less enthusiastic about it than him in this episode.

 

Maybe there is a little truth to what Henry said. Maybe Regina isn't the only reason he's working for Rumple. We saw in 2B and 3B he is legitimately interested in his dad. Who knows?

Edited October 20, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Leia1979]

The Apprentice, aka Hook Is Overly Dramatic About His Hand

 

I watched this very late last night and had to muffle my squees. The date stuff was all adorable, even though I still don't love Emma's outfit--I think it's the high ponytail that makes it look like she's off to prom in 1955. The one liners were great, from Elsa's corset comment to Emma's "I really need my own place" and "I can hear you." David was hysterical, and holy crap, Mary Margaret is showing interest in her daughter again. The only parts that bothered me were David and MM acting like Emma is 17, not 30, and Hook staring at his hand while kissing Emma (what, did he have a sudden compulsion to run his hand through Emma's hair in an evil manner?). 

 

I hate that Hook succumbed to Gold's power of suggestion. I'm hoping the hand was actually tampered with, because it's so weird that he suddenly became a lefty when he punched out Will. Also, the dialogue when Hook first asks for his hand back was so clunky to me. The rest of the Hook/Gold stuff (as someone pointed out upthread) is horribly circular. I think they're heading towards mutually assured destruction. More than anything, throughout all the hand nonsense, I kept thinking how nice it must be for Colin not to deal with the hook for 2/3 of an episode.

 

Sven the reindeer is wonderful. Will Scarlet is the least stealthy thief ever. Minimal Regina and Belle make me happy.

 

My really random question: Where did Henry go after he and Emma arrived at Granny's? He was there, and then Emma left without him. It just seemed weird.

 

And now I must go watch Lindsey's Evil Hand (Angel 2x18 Dead End).

Edited October 20, 2014 by Leia1979

[Ariah]

 

My really random question: Where did Henry go after he and Emma arrived at Granny's? He was there, and then Emma left without him. It just seemed weird.

 

Perhaps Henry went to school?

 

I know, I know, Henry doesn't go to school.

[FineWashables]

So here's my take on it:  we have to suspend disbelief going in to this show in order to believe that fairy tale characters are real, and that they move through time and different worlds.  Ok, we all seem willing to do that.  But then the writers make the characters' actions and motivations inauthentic and unbelievable as well.  That's where it crosses the line for me.  I can't care about characters I don't believe in, and while I could believe that they were fairly three-dimensional people before this season, they've turned into two-dimensional characters by now.  Except for Rumple, who keeps reverting to one dimension.  Robert Carlyle is a terrific actor but all this "dearie" crap got old a long, long time ago.

[Joanh23]

So what I loved:

all the CaptainSwan scenes - Emma definitely would have invited Hook in for a night cap if her parents weren't there!

all the family Charming feels - it was great seeing everyone so comfortable with each other & I love how Emma turns into a teenager when she's around them and how she was embarrassed when David was offering to drive - she couldn't get out of there quick enough

 

I can't believe Regina is ok with Henry going to work undercover for Gold, and I was really surprised when he used Neal as a way to persuade Gold to allow him to work there - that was a very cold move Henry!  And you just know that Henry is going to find something he shouldn't in the shop and it will blow up in their faces.  I'm also curious to see how Emma reacts when she finds out.

 

There had to be some angst coming for Emma/Hook - I hope Hook tells Emma about his deal with Gold quickly but I have a feeling this storyline will run all the way through this half of the season.  

 

Gold really is going full on evil again - I think why I'm struggling with it a bit is that we've never seen him full on Rumple in Storybrooke it's always been in flash backs and he's the imp.   Even in S1 when he was manipulating events it was all to help Emma break the curse whereas now if he thought he'd get away with it he'd try and put Emma in the hat.  I'm curious to see where this will all end...

[Dirtybubble]

I think if Emma had worn the red dress from the pilot, they never would've left the bug, or they would've headed straight for Hook's room

Well that would have been awsome!  Then we wouldn't have been exposed to lady and the tramp.

 

The Apprentice, aka Hook Is Overly Dramatic About His Hand

I'm gonna call Hook's excuse as to why he wanted his hand back sloppy writing.  Yeah it set everything in motion for this story line but if they can come up with such a detailed story as to Hook & Rumple's new frenemies then they can do a better job explaining why Hook would want his hand back instead of all of a sudden I want to hold Emma with both hands....pooie I tell ya, pooie!

 

[ShadowFacts]

I noticed that Will had a bottle of MacCutcheon Whisky in his hand, where is he getting the money to afford that?  Do they sell it by the bottle in that quaint Italian restaurant?  Just a Lost Easter egg, no doubt, but in that show they made a point of how expensive it was.  Schoolteacher Mary Margaret had some, too. 

[Lady Calypso]

I don't think I liked the episode much, to be honest. It was filled with very sloppy writing and poor characterization on Hook's end. I'm very much indifferent to Captain Swan but I've been slowly warming to the idea. At the beginning of the episode, I even thought they were cute together. I can even understand why Hook may think having his hand back would be a good thing. But....him not asking for his hand back earlier is quizzical. And I don't understand why Hook thinks Emma would even care if he has his hand back or not. He's been doing just fine with it otherwise. I can handwave it to him taking a step to change for her, but still. Hook's always been on the dim witted side, and the writers like making characters dumb for plot reasons, but Rumple's blackmail to Hook makes zero sense. First of all, Emma would never believe Rumple over Hook. If he told her the truth, she'd believe him, no questions asked. Emma knows Rumple uses magic on the daily and would trust Hook in telling her the truth. Hook knows Emma hates when people make decisions for her, so he should know she'll be pissed at him when this gets out. It's stupid plot contrivances and I don't like it. If I was a Captain Swan fan, I'd be pissed.

 

And clearly, Hook is not like Anna; he goes toward the darkness instead of turning away from the temptation. Speaking of Anna, I do actually like her. She was pretty much like this in the movie so I don't mind her quirkiness at all. It's actually kind of sweet, even a tad annoying at times. Her reunion with Kristoff was very sweet as well and I love how she didn't know what to tell Elsa, instead of stating outright 'I will lie to her'. It shows she's struggling with the decision to hurt her sister or leave her in the dark. I also don't mind her getting a one up on Rumple because it wasn't like her plan was to control him. She just wanted to get his dagger to she could get away, and her requests were pretty good. That means Rumple can't harm Elsa or Anna and he'll probably have to tell Elsa why when they cross paths.

 

As for Rumple, I'm not surprised about his goal to get more power. That's been his thing throughout the series. Regina's goal is revenge, and Rumple's has been about power. He can't give up power so him wanting the power from the Hat is not surprising. However, it is Rumple so he probably has a use for the power once he gets it. At first, my thought went right to resurrecting his son from the dead and probably turning him into a child (and it would be neat if it did work, but Neal comes back different; magic does come with a price). But I'm not really sure, because it is Rumple and we've only seen him care about Bae in flashbacks, not so much in the present. But it would make sense as to why he's mourned Neal once and then pretty much moved on. 

 

I liked Henry a lot in season 1 because he was a badass kid who did whatever it took to get Emma to believe and break the curse on the town, while not caring if Regina was taken down in the process. That Henry I miss. Even season 2 Henry, for the most part, wasn't bad. But now, Henry's just dull, with helping Regina and nothing else. Season 1 Henry would be all kinds of skeptical of Regina; this Henry seems to dismiss all her evil doings. Bad writing on that part. I also don't mind Jared Gilmore. He is still a kid, started this show with probably no acting experience and they won't switch him out now. 

 

The good parts of this episode were with Elsa, the Charmings being actual parents and Anna/Rumple. I feel sorry for Emilie de Ravin, who seems like a guest star still, with her brief appearances to remind us that she's a regular for some reason, and with very little to do. Her and Michael Raymond-James really got the short end on this show, with their characters both starting out quite promising and falling into plot contrivances only. 

[Rumsy4]

Didn't Rumple tell Neal at one point that he was his Happy Ending? It was ironic that Rumple told Hook, Belle was the one Light in his life, because he certainly does not cherish her. He was ready to let her die with the rest of Storybrooke when he thought Neal was dead, and is now taking full advantage of her foolish trust in him, so I have a hard time believing that he loves Belle, let alone that it is True Love!

I am beyond pisssed at the Kiss Curse redux, but now even more dumb and drawn out.

[Lady Calypso]

Didn't Rumple tell Neal at one point that he was his Happy Ending? It was ironic that Rumple told Hook, Belle was the one Light in his life, because he certainly does not cherish her. He was ready to let her die with the rest of Storybrooke when he thought Neal was dead, and is now taking full advantage of her foolish trust in him, so I have a hard time believing that he loves Belle, let alone that it is True Love!

 

 

Yeah, true. But Rumple also forgot about Neal and hung out with 'Lacey' when Neal came to Storybrooke so I'm not surprised. We don't see much of Belle, though, unless the writers actually include her in scenes, so we don't really know how that relationship is going. It seems like the show is more interested in Rumple's magic and him being a shady villain than his growth with other characters.