S06.E04: A Potpourri Of Freaks

[formerlyfreedom]

Max makes a new friend; Sarah tries to figure out her place in Ruby's life; Crosby tries to avoid a crisis at the Lunchonette.

 

 

[aw86]

I fear for Crosby's fate

[Lady Calypso]

Oh my, I agree aw86. Crosby's definitely going down a dangerous path this season, with things literally taking a bad turn for him. Not only does he have the worst brother ever who blames him for everything, even though this was clearly Adam's fault, he's losing a client AND he had to take the mini van! The horrors! Add to the fact that Jasmine echoed all of our thoughts from last week and wanted Crosby to go to the doctor's to make sure there wasn't anything serious about his injury, and we could very well lose Crosby instead of Zeek by the end. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure if Crosby will die, but the chances are just growing by the episode.

 

Have I mentioned how much Adam sucks? I'm glad he's there for his mom, but he's really not that great with Crosby or his supposed business at the moment. He's playing with his wife's new business and neglecting his own, so I hope that they lose money and I hope Adam is blamed for it. Adam's at least decent enough with Max, far better than Kristina, but that isn't saying much. Speaking of Kristina, she is truly an awful principal, isn't she? Giving Dylan the stink eye after she left the office and being all snippy with her. Dylan's not the greatest character, but she's a kid, she has her own issues and Max likes her. Maybe it'll help Max's character grow into something more than an Asperger's kid. But probably not.

 

I may not like Kristina, but I did actually like her being the one to get through to Zeek. I was worried it would be Crosby getting into an accident that would snap him out of his funk, but Kristina empathizing with him and actually making a lot of sense is what did it. It's actually sweet that someone who isn't even his daughter, but just an in-law, can help him out. Poor Camille, although it has only been a couple of days since he arrived home, right? Presumably a week after his surgery too, so I'm not surprised Zeek wasn't ready to move around much. Camille probably knows her husband very well, though, so she probably saw signs of him giving up which is why she kept pushing him to move.

 

Sarah/Hank's story? Yawn. I literally would rather watch Adam and Crosby yelling at each other....ok, actually, no. I'd rather listen to Max spurt out random, weird facts. 

[wrestlesflamingos]

God I hate this show. truly. I hope Crosby runs them all over. Its just so syrupy and gah.

[izabella]

Why are they so opposed to Max getting his hair cut?

 

So, Kristina?  How does it feel when one of your students doesn't want to sit down?   Remember when Max's teacher let him stand and walk around the room and you were outraged that he was being "forced" to stand?  She is so unprepared to manage this school.  She only cares about managing everyone to please Max.

[Cattitude]

This Julia and Joel stuff is going to be the death of me. I kind of liked this week and Julia clearly still loves Joel, but then the preview for next week with college guy. gah! It truely makes me raging that this is ALL somehow Joel's fault and Julia gets now 3 guys and Joel is still just Joel. I don't mind him seeing what he lost, but Julia is also losing something and it sure as hell doesn't seem like it. All the crap Julia pulled with not dealing with Victor properly, losing her job, not handling it, having an emotional affair with Ed. What did Joel do? He took a step back to decompress and whamo, he's the bad guy. ugh!

 

Overall decent episode and I loved Dylan laying the smackdown on Kristina. Seeing  her "outside the box" school as something she didn't intend is truely a sight I'm going to gloat about. hahaha

 

Zeek and Camille really sold the aging issues. Glad the 23904785 stairs weren't swept under the rug.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Cattitude

[callmebetty]

There is no way in hell I would let my child get away with that half assed apology that Sydney gave that girl. And then just walk away. Argh.

I add myself to being worried about Crosby and that Adam is an ass.

So far I like Dylan but that could be short lived.

Don't really care for Hank's daughter but that's because she's acting like a true teenager and I don't want to deal with that, not with limited episodes left.

Edited October 17, 2014 by callmebetty

[CMH1981]

Did anyone else see shades of our beloved Lorelai Gilmore in her response to Hank's daughter's comment on her outfit?  It gives me such great hope that Lauren Graham isn't just a one trick pony and it's the writing on this show that is the issue here.  Also, loved that Hank was direct to his ex in regards to his relationship to Sarah and that was the end of that subject; that is how Luke should have handled Anna in regards to his relationship.  Okay, i'm off my GG rant here.  The way that Hank told his ex that he hoped that he and Sarah were in it for the long haul basically tells me that rough waters are ahead when Mark Cyr comes back into the picture.

 

I really thought that the scene w/Jasmine in bed was going to be the police at the door saying that Crosby was in an accident in the mini-van.  I still think the writers are throwing us here by making us think it is either Zeke or Crosby in the death pool here, I still think that it's going to be Camille.  I think she will end up forgoing her own health for Zeke.

 

Julia and Joel....Julia and Joel...  First, actually punish Sydney and whoop her ass.  That girl controls those two like puppets, getting to just storm off while they ask her politely to come back and apologize properly.  Second, go to goddamn counseling now, family counseling or couples, I don't care just bring in a third party again.

[AlliMo]

Hank's ex really irks me. She seemed to have done everything in her power to limit and control Hank's time with Ruby, including moving thousands of miles away, and now that she's running wild she expects him to be at her beck and call whenever she snaps her fingers. Yes, Ruby is a teenager, but maybe she wouldn't be such a giant pain in the ass if you'd made the effort to coparent from the beginning.

 

I have no interest in placing blame in the Joel/Julia situation. They both made mistakes, Joel left, and Julia finally decided to start moving on. That's how it works. Maybe they'll work it out and get back together, maybe they won't, but they each made their choices, and they're each dealing with the consequences of those choices.

Edited October 17, 2014 by AlliMo

[Everleigh]

Why doesn't anyone on this show discipline their children?

 

I appreciate Joel and Julia taking Sydney to apologize to the girl she bullied, and their little talk with her at the house was fine and dandy, but we still haven't seen them reprimand her for being a bully. So far it's been all about her feelings, not the feelings of the kid she hurt. Why hasn't she been punished, or even told that her behavior was horrible?  

 

God, Ruby... that girl just plain sucks. Why do we even have to suffer through her teenage angst crap? She's not even a Braverman. What she said to Sarah was straight up disrespectful and her father just stands there like an awkward dunce. I know Hank has his issues and maybe he didn't pick up on her shitty attitude on his own, but Sarah made it clear that what Ruby said was insulting and he still did nothing. Hopefully he takes some initiative and does something about her behavior next episode and then promptly ships her off somewhere so I don't ever have to see her again. 

 

And of course there's Max, who has been getting away with being a little jerk for years. 

 

Do kids not get yelled out anymore? Are parents too worried that actually discipling their kids might damage their fragile little snowflakes' self-confidence?  I would have never gotten away with treating people (other children and adults alike) the way these kids do. My parents would have kicked my ass. 

Edited October 17, 2014 by Everleigh

[Iboatedhere]

I've only seen about 10 minutes of the episode so far but the new girl at the school kind of looks like Jared Leto. 

[ShadowFacts]

This was kind of a bad episode for me.  I guess I'm glad I stuck it out til the end though, for Zeek and Kristina.  They've always had a good bond.  Zeek was heading into depression which is not uncommon after heart surgery, and he still might.  I liked their scene. 

 

I also thought when Hank made his speech to Sandy about having Sarah in his life that it was a signal that it probably won't last.  Sandy handled that news well, she didn't know and now she knows.  The last two episodes have been heavy on Hank, this one opened with him, maybe we can get a breather next week. I do like Ray Romano in this role, but there's too much of him.

 

Adam in the kitchen with the kids, so unbelievable.  Crosby at the retreat, not funny and fell flat to me.  Bad girl who shakes things up for Kristina at school, so cliche.  If Joel and Julia still need time before making or breaking it, they need counseling as mentioned above.  Time alone isn't going to work. 

 

I'm beginning to think no one's going to die at all.  We're being faked out.  They are going to "face" death, already have with Zeek, maybe will with Crosby or someone else, but I don't know if Ron Howard would want one of his characters from his movie killed off.  Maybe he would, but maybe he'd like to keep the clan together and the ending will echo the movie's final scene. 

 

[candall]

I was recording it, to skip commercials, and just happened to catch the scene with the Dylan/Kristina confo.  Watched it twice!

 

Reading these comments, I think I'll just delete the recording.  Sitting through more Joel & Julia angst, their undisciplined demon spawn and Who-Cares-Ruby will sap some of my joy at Kristina's discomfiture as she bumps up against her first new Academy Max.

[stafford]

God this show. Aren't there about a zillion health code violations being broken by having students fixing food for the students? How can the writers use this tiny, inconsequential contrivance <snark> so they can push the Adam/Crosby business going under? I get that they want to show Crosby falling off a cliff (or under a semi-truck on his bike) for either his death or his growth. Jury is still out but how stupid do the writers think the viewers are?

Hey Kristina, did you really think you were going to attrack students that didn't have significant behavioral problems? At this point Dylan has had significantly more experience with various schools than Kristina but as someone else said up thread Kristina gets to be angry (giving Dylan the stink eye) because she has impulse problems? Kristina gets the title of Headmistress but has zero experience. I'd really like to see at least one teacher actually teaching but I guess that's not the point of the Snowflake Academy.

I hate every scene with Zeke. I find him overbearing, unbelievably selfish and a pompous ass. To me, he has all the classic attributes of an emotional abuser and his kids seem to favor him. Frankly I'm glad they bought a house with ten million stairs so he can die trying to climb them (wow that was a bit harsh). He never thanks his wife or anyone for that matter. I'm also bugged by anyone referring to their family members as "son", "daughter", "grandchild", or "mother". What, you can't rember their names? It's all very possessive in my book and reeks of "sister wives".

The Hank, Lorelai er, ah Sarah relationship has zero chemistry. It was there for a hot minute when they first met but now zilch and if her other job is apartment super then shouldn't she be living in her own place? And what was the point of the ultimative by Sandy that Hank couldnt have Sarah around Ruby if when Hank explains they have a future together and Sandy's response is oh, okay?

I really like Dax Sheppard as an actor so I'm hoping he gets another acting gig soon that showcases his talents. I understand Monica Porter (?) has been tapped for a sitcom. I can't even imagine how that's possible because her stint on this show has ruined her for me.

[alexvillage]

Oh show! 

One good thing: Dylan. Self determination, that's how it looks like. The girl is exercising her right to be herself, even if she might be "wrong" (I don't think she was worse than any teenager I know). I can't stand the medical model that has to find the "problems" with anyone who does not fit the elusive, impossible "normal". Dylan is neurodivergent, so OF COURSE she has BEHAVIORS. 

No, she needs to grow up, since she is an adolescent, and she needs to learn that respect goes both ways, but she wasn't out of line at all. She is much better than any of the Bravermans. That's the pathology here: Bravermanism. 

Kristina saying that Max cannot cut his hair, and that Dylan is controlling should have been said to a mirror. Geez! And while I tend to agree that you should not go about calling people by their diagnosis, if Max does not care, and seems to be having a blast, Max's way, so what? Maybe Dylan did that because she was so bored with the academy, she wanted to get back at the helicopter mom. Max does not have a problem with speaking his mind, let him learn if the "name calling" is appropriate or not.

 

Can any of these people have empathy? Zeek is going through the motions with a post op for a serious condition. He needs to o it his way. Forcing him to get up and complaining that he is not helping is cruel. I did not watch the scene with Kristina, but it seems she was a bit better. I dislike Zeek but seriously, poor Zeek 

[ShadowFacts]

 

I hate every scene with Zeke. I find him overbearing, unbelievably selfish and a pompous ass. To me, he has all the classic attributes of an emotional abuser and his kids seem to favor him.

 

He is overbearing and abrasive, not very likeable to me, but I don't know about emotional abuser.  He's mostly been supportive of his children as far as I recall, and is very good with his grandchildren, encouraging them, taking Victor under his wing, generous to Drew, close to Amber, even tried in his way to intervene with Max on a camping trip or something.  I do think he lords it over Camille too much, but at least it was addressed last season where she expressed how she always put herself last and she was going to Italy no matter what he said or thought.  He also relented about selling the house.

 

And what was the point of the ultimative by Sandy that Hank couldnt have Sarah around Ruby if when Hank explains they have a future together and Sandy's response is oh, okay?

 

That made sense to me because many parents get upset at their children being with people their ex is casually dating.  When she realized this wasn't just a ship passing in the night, it wasn't a problem, though her reaction was milder than I expected. 

[Aliconehead]

I never understood why people in the 60's or 70's were buying a house with that many steps.  I am 40 y/o and if I ever bought another house it would be my last and you can bet there would not be as many stairs as this on.  

 

I am also worried about Crosby.  Adam was a complete dick to him and has no respect for him.  I did like Christina pointing out what Crosby already had, "Why was there not a contract with Rome"  If Crosby died, went into a coma, etc, there would be lots of angst for Adam first blaming Crosby for being "irresponsible" (not that I think he is) and then feeling guilty.

 

Syd's a brat.

[3 is enough]

All I can say is that I am happy that the girl Max likes is Dylan and not Ruby.  I saw an interview with the actor where he said that Max was going to have his first crush, and I assumed it would be Ruby.  Phew! 

[Primetimer]

While some Bravermans freak out about Zeek not feeling like taking a walk since his open-heart surgery five minutes ago, others are intrigued by glamorous new Academy students.

Read the story

[TVForever]

It seems to me like Crosby is growing up and becoming the more responsible Braverman brother while Adam is becoming more whiny and immature with each episode. I too, feel we haven't seen the last of his motorcycle accident. Maybe it wasn't a red herring after all.

Oh my goodness, that Snowflake Academy. Every time I see it, I think back to last season, when Supermom Kristina first came up with the idea, and that great teacher she loved (nearly to the point of crushing on him) very kindly asked if she was sure, letting her know that he has seen this before, and that the enthusiasm for opening such a school often falls flat in the reality of such an undertaking. Are there any actual professionals at this place? Because the only adults I ever see are Kristina and Adam, and he's supposed to have his own job somewhere else! Looks like that teacher was right- Kristina opened a school for HER KID that she just allows other kids to attend. In which case she should have just homeschooled him.

I miss the old house. It was the most charming place.

[econ07]

Julia is 100% wrong and selfish.  She has offered no apology and shown no contrition for her betrayal.  If she had done this, instead of sleeping with snowflake academy teachers, she might be back together with Joel.  As it is now, he loves her but does not trust her, which is why he is in limbo and is crushed that she is dating around.  He is simply looking for that recognition that he was betrayed so he can begin to trust again.

 

I think that if it was reversed, with Julia going back to work for the first time in years, having Joel burst in on her workplace yelling, then Joel spending time in another woman's home alone, then Joel kissing said woman, then Joel claiming that he was an innocent recipient of said kiss, then when Julia moves out because she cannot trust Joel, Joel goes and sleeps with someone else, then Julia continues to selflessly serve Joel's siblings and parents in many ways, etc. etc, I think everyone would rightly consider Joel a villain.  I don't understand why it is different for a woman?  Maybe it's the Braverman effect?

Edited October 17, 2014 by econ07

[CheersEnthusiast]

Good moment with Julia and Zeke and lots of interesting subtext there.  Zeke has a place in his heart for Joel and now I think he's realized their marriage is obviously over.  Great job by Zeke telling Julia exactly what she had to hear despite the fact he's horribly depressed and in spite of the fact that he thinks of Joel as a son.  

 

Interesting reactions by Adam to the question by Max, by the end he seems genuinely joyful about the question.  There is the usual pride at seeing your son grow up, but there seems more there.  Perhaps he's overjoyed to finally be able to deal with some of the typical "my son's growing up" sort of material rather than having to constantly define his relationship with Max as "my relationship with my son who has Asberger's"--this can be "when I had a talk with my son MAX".  An opportunity to widen the scope of their bond and what he can offer/share with Max. 

Edited October 17, 2014 by CheersEnthusiast

[EdnasEdibles]

Why doesn't anyone on this show discipline their children?

I appreciate Joel and Julia taking Sydney to apologize to the girl she bullied, and their little talk with her at the house was fine and dandy, but we still haven't seen them reprimand her for being a bully. So far it's been all about her feelings, not the feelings of the kid she hurt. Why hasn't she been punished, or even told that her behavior was horrible?

 

 

The whole scene with Julia, Joel and Sydney was obnoxious.  It seems like they just showed up at the house and had never discussed anything with Sydney and were then just shocked that the apology was so terrible and half-assed.  Sit her ass down, tell her why she is being a horrible little snot, punish her for bullying and then make her tell you the heartfelt apology she will make and give you a plan for what she is going to do in the future so the poor girl is not further bullied.

 

And honestly why isn't that whole damn family in therapy?  An adoption, a separation, tons of parent fighting, an ill grandfather . . . to a certain extent I'm surprised that the stuff with Sydney isn't a little worse. And I didn't get when Joel was like "Should we have her talk to the therapist again?" and Julia was like "No . . ."

 

Um, why not?  Why the hell not?

 

I hate Kristina.  I really do. Her entire attitude with the girl was unbearable. She's always so mousy and warbly and unassertive while simultaneously being entitled and snooty.  That whole conversation was supposed to illustrate that the girl was a brat but to me it just showed that Kristina's character has no idea how to run a school or handle children.

 

And I don't get why it's a big deal if Max gets his hair cut?

 

This show . . . 

[Portia]

This episode really made me want to do physical violence to someone.

 

Lord knows I understand that children can be trying, but sheesh, what is it with this show's depictions of kids? For the most part, they're either completely bland and forgettable (sorry, Jabbar) or absolute monsters. First of all, Ruby flat-out insulting Sarah to her face . . . who DOES that? But then Dylan . . . I couldn't enjoy her torturing the oh-so-deserving Kristina because Dylan just seemed like a sociopath to me. I know I'm going to get flack about this because obviously a lot of people on this thread respect her, but I see a LOT to be troubled by in that girl's aggressively antisocial behavior.  Yes, the bratty kids on this show are the product of some crappy parenting (I can't even form words about how stupid Julia & Joel were being with Sydney), but I also just feel like these kids are ten times worse than the worst kids I've ever encountered in real life. I guess I didn't miss my calling as an elementary or high school teacher. I do teach college freshmen, and I've had plenty of disrespectful and/or troubled kids in my day (I'm the one who had a Max-like young man in one of my classes last spring), and I like to think I've been reasonably effective with them. But watching that interaction between Dylan and Kristina, all I could think was, "Thank God I wouldn't have to put up with garbage like that." 

 

Also, as much as I feel for Crosby's frustrations, he needs to find ways to act out that don't involve endangering his own life. He's the dad of two young children, and it would be shameful for him to leave a widow with two babies to raise on her own. I don't mean to offend any motorcycle enthusiasts on the boards, but I know WAY too many people who have been killed and maimed on them, and I have strong feelings about people with family responsibilities engaging in that sort of risky behavior just for the sake of fun or coolness.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Portia

[CheersEnthusiast]

Oh show! 

One good thing: Dylan. Self determination, that's how it looks like. The girl is exercising her right to be herself, even if she might be "wrong" (I don't think she was worse than any teenager I know). I can't stand the medical model that has to find the "problems" with anyone who does not fit the elusive, impossible "normal". Dylan is neurodivergent, so OF COURSE she has BEHAVIORS. 

No, she needs to grow up, since she is an adolescent, and she needs to learn that respect goes both ways, but she wasn't out of line at all. She is much better than any of the Bravermans. That's the pathology here: Bravermanism. 

Kristina saying that Max cannot cut his hair, and that Dylan is controlling should have been said to a mirror. Geez! And while I tend to agree that you should not go about calling people by their diagnosis, if Max does not care, and seems to be having a blast, Max's way, so what? Maybe Dylan did that because she was so bored with the academy, she wanted to get back at the helicopter mom. Max does not have a problem with speaking his mind, let him learn if the "name calling" is appropriate or not.

 

Can any of these people have empathy? Zeek is going through the motions with a post op for a serious condition. He needs to o it his way. Forcing him to get up and complaining that he is not helping is cruel. I did not watch the scene with Kristina, but it seems she was a bit better. I dislike Zeek but seriously, poor Zeek 

 

I agree, especially with the part about Dylan.  A good character to set opposite Kristina, stand toe to toe and give some MUCH needed conflict for that character and her point of view.  I think the problem a lot of people have with that character is that her way of viewing things is to a great degree accepted as gospel truth by the writers, shown by the fact that they never provide any conflict for it and set it up as "pie in the sky"/forced heartwarming wonderful.  She can do anything and whatever she decides is given a free pass by the writers.  Hopefully, Dylan will continue to provide this missing conflict to the show.

Edited October 17, 2014 by CheersEnthusiast

[AlliMo]

Julia is 100% wrong and selfish.  She has offered no apology and shown no contrition for her betrayal.  If she had done this, instead of sleeping with snowflake academy teachers, she might be back together with Joel.  As it is now, he loves her but does not trust her, which is why he is in limbo and is crushed that she is dating around.  He is simply looking for that recognition that he was betrayed so he can begin to trust again.

 

I think that if it was reversed, with Julia going back to work for the first time in years, having Joel burst in on her workplace yelling, then Joel spending time in another woman's home alone, then Joel kissing said woman, then Joel claiming that he was an innocent recipient of said kiss, then when Julia moves out because she cannot trust Joel, Joel goes and sleeps with someone else, then Julia continues to selflessly serve Joel's siblings and parents in many ways, etc. etc, I think everyone would rightly consider Joel a villain.  I don't understand why it is different for a woman?  Maybe it's the Braverman effect?

Julia did apologize, repeatedly. Joel refused to seek counseling or even try to work things out, so why is Julia supposed to just sit around waiting in limbo? Is it because she's a woman?

 

Why does either of them have to be "the villain?" Joel and Julia BOTH made mistakes, and they're both choosing how they deal with the consequences. That's how it works.

[Cattitude]

I flat out laughed when Zeek was comforting Julia. Out of ALL his kids Julia is the least compassionate and caring. He really doesn't know her at all. She was a shark attorney who is always my way or the highway. Joel has all the compassion in that marriage. I understand that he is her father and loves her but he didn't have to blow smoke up her butt.

 

Dylan is very manipulative, BUT she isn't worse than Kristina she IS her mirror. Kristina wants to allow people to be "free" but only as it conforms to her idea of free. I so get satisfaction out of Kristina seeing too much of a good thing isn't really all it's cracked up to be. There is no doubt Dylan is trouble, but def the kind of trouble Kristina deserves.

 

Crosby's an example of someone who has had his true nature stiffled by Adam for too long so he rebels by acting out too much the opposite. If he could find a happy medium in his life he'd be less dangerous. Jasmine did the absolute wrong thing trying to control him by making him take the minivan. If he would have taken his bike to start with he wouldn't have done what he did at the end. Crosby is a lot like Zeek and Camille has learned not to push him. That is the same thing Jasmine needs to learn about Crosby. Many things in life are risky but if you are always in cotton wool that IS no life either. You marry a risk taker you have to be willing to live with a risk taker. If you try to change them too much it leads to rebellion.

 

Why does either of them have to be "the villain?" Joel and Julia BOTH made mistakes, and they're both choosing how they deal with the consequences. That's how it works.

 

They don't but unfortunately this show appears to be making Joel the villain and it is very anger producing. The trouble in the marriage is BOTH their faults but only Joel seems to be getting the short end of the stick for ONE decision when Julia made 308475 bad ones.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Cattitude

[izabella]

Interesting reactions by Adam to the question by Max, by the end he seems genuinely joyful about the question.  There is the usual pride at seeing your son grow up, but there seems more there.  Perhaps he's overjoyed to finally be able to deal with some of the typical "my son's growing up" sort of material rather than having to constantly define his relationship with Max as "my relationship with my son who has Asberger's"--this can be "when I had a talk with my son MAX".  An opportunity to widen the scope of their bond and what he can offer/share with Max. 

 

I think Adam's reaction was about Max having some "normal" feelings for girls, and his potential future.  Remember how Kristina and Adam were so excited when the Bug Guy showed up and had Asperger's?  It gave them hope that Max might also one day be able to hold down some kind of job.  I think Max having an interest in girls is a huge relief to Adam because it gives Adam hope that Max can maybe have a "normal" life that includes relationships and love, and that starts with actually being able to develop feelings for someone and wanting to have a love (or at his age, like) relationships.  The subject has come up before, back when Max was entering puberty and was asking some questions about it, and Adam was overjoyed then, too.

 

Adam very much wants Max to have a life that includes all of the things that are important to Adam, including wife and family (or husband and family, if Max were so inclined).  Adam doesn't want Max to end up alone without any relationships that aren't the Bravermans or Hank. 

 

That was my take on it, anyway.

Edited October 17, 2014 by izabella

[Lady Calypso]

Something that I noticed upon rewatch in regards to Crosby's dangerous spiral: when Crosby came back and took the motorcycle, he didn't have a helmet on I'm pretty sure. 

[maraleia]

Forgetting about specific story elements this season and especially this episode the toddlers who are portraying Nora and Aida are adorable and I'm glad that we won't get to see the writers screw them up like they've done with Sydney and Max. I actually like Haddie, Amber, Drew, Jabbar and Victor and am glad that they didn't make a big deal over Haddie and her girlfriend Lauren.

[CMH1981]

How cute was it when Nora corrected Max at the dinner table.  I wonder if that was scripted or not, b/c Adam and Kristina seemed to be shocked by it.  It was such a cute moment.  I also was puzzled by the obvious puppy Max was holding in his arm when he wanted to cut his hair, they have had this dog for over a year now at least, no way should it still be that small.  In regards to the poster who asked what the big deal was w/Max wanting to cut his hair, the reason his parents were against it was b/c his new crush was making fun of his hair, calling him a boy bander(sp?)  I didn't get the big deal either, but I think it was b/c it was one of those scenes where everyone was talking over each other, then i finally realized he only wanted to do it b/c she was making fun of him.  It was scary seeing Max not want to give up the scissors like that.  

[panthergirl13]

When Zeek was telling Julia what an awesome mother she is, I could only think "Huh? Who are you talking about? Have you met that little asshole she calls her daughter?"

 

That said, I don't think they are making Joel the villain here. In fact I think what he's most heartbroken about with the impending divorce is not being a part of this insane family anymore because regardless what WE think of them all, he seems to like these crazy people. Sorry Joel.

[marceline]

Crosby's behavior at the retreat showcased exactly the thing I hate most about him. How many times have we seen him throw public scenes that only get worse when people try to remind him that he's not the only person on the planet? In some ways he's worse than Max because while Max has trouble recognizing social cues, Crosby ignores them. This reminded me of his tantrums when he went to vote and the one when they went out for a family dinner and Aida kept crying. Whenever Crosby is faced with rules or limits he becomes loud and belligerent and frankly it wouldn't bother me a bit if he dies this season in the process of yet another psychotic meltdown where someone just decides to punch him in the throat to shut him up.

[JasminePhyllisia]

 

Why doesn't anyone on this show discipline their children?

Don't they? I think Max had some stickers taken away once. Oh wait that was like 5 seasons ago.

 

 

An adoption, a separation, tons of parent fighting, an ill grandfather . . . to a certain extent I'm surprised that the stuff with Sydney isn't a little worse. And I didn't get when Joel was like "Should we have her talk to the therapist again?" and Julia was like "No . . ."

 

Um, why not?  Why the hell not?

Yes, thank you!  Not to mention the adoption was of an older child. I've heard that adoption of an older sibling can be more stressful for the birth children if the birth order is changed and they are no longer the oldest. She was an only child, so I'm not sure if it still applies here, but her relationship with Victor hasn't always been smooth sailing. Lots of stress for a girl that young.  And disappointing to see her mother accepting it when Zeek waves the whole thing away because as a parent it's her job to ruin her children's lives.  Really???  Crappy advice from a man who is likely heavily medicated at the moment.

Edited October 17, 2014 by JasminePhyllisia

[ShadowFacts]

 

And disappointing to see her mother accepting it when Zeek waves the whole thing away because as a parent it's her job to ruin her children's lives.  Really???

I forgot about that line.  It really bugged.

[txhorns79]

The whole scene with Julia, Joel and Sydney was obnoxious.  It seems like they just showed up at the house and had never discussed anything with Sydney and were then just shocked that the apology was so terrible and half-assed.  Sit her ass down, tell her why she is being a horrible little snot, punish her for bullying and then make her tell you the heartfelt apology she will make and give you a plan for what she is going to do in the future so the poor girl is not further bullied.

 

I agree it seemed weird that it felt like the whole apology was happening on the fly, and Julia and Joel were "shocked" that Sydney was being a brat again.  The only thing I would disagree with is the plan for the future.  I would just tell Sydney to leave the girl alone.  She doesn't have be friendly with her, but she should not be nasty to her either. 

 

I'm also confused about Zeek's situation.  Obviously his family is going to encourage and help him, but he doesn't have any kind of physical therapist coming to see him?  Why did they make it seem like it was all on Camille to handle Zeek's rehabilitation by herself?

 

 

I think Adam's reaction was about Max having some "normal" feelings for girls, and his potential future.

 

What confused me was that I don't think Adam actually asked why Max likes this girl.  I certainly was curious on that.  I mean, I honestly have no clue what Dylan would see in Max, as he's fairly terrible for reasons that have nothing to do with any diagnosis. 

 

And finally, Adam is simply awful.  I understand why Crosby is spiraling, if only because his business is failing and his business partner/brother seems entirely checked out, only occasionally showing up to yell at him for mistakes that Adam made. 

[tearbender]

Oh my goodness, that Snowflake Academy. Every time I see it, I think back to last season, when Supermom Kristina first came up with the idea, and that great teacher she loved (nearly to the point of crushing on him) very kindly asked if she was sure, letting her know that he has seen this before, and that the enthusiasm for opening such a school often falls flat in the reality of such an undertaking.

 

What I found fascinating about that whole scene with Mr. Knight was that while Kristina was all inspired and delusional about her lightbulb moment for Snowflake Academy, Adam wasn't originally as gung ho as I remember it. Cut to that awesome moment where Mr. Knight tells them that he's seen parents like them abandon their schools when their kid graduates. Kristina actually seems to take this to heart for a moment, but Adam was obviously offput and jealous by Kristina's enthusiasm for the guy and then encourages Kristina to go ahead with Snowflake Academy despite Knights warning. This show. Sometimes they get so close to calling out the blinders the Bravermans have only to swerve and validate their incredible narcissism and martyrdom. Think of that moment where Knight looks stunned at the audacity of A & K knocking on his door with ideas for Snowflake Academy at bumfuck in the morning, and you think, yes, wow, someone is gonna school these two on boundaries, but nope, he becomes just another character passing by to be unrealistically inspired by The Best Parents Ever.

[Maurina]

OK look I realize they are kind of overplaying the whole 'Zeek you gotta take care of yourself' thing and all, but um actually, not really. Having had 3 elderly family members go through various surgeries (one of which was a heart surgery), I know from personal experience that getting the hell up and taking a freakin' walk is actually REALLY IMPORTANT medically speaking. Especially in terms of preventing postoperative strokes. It's a HUGE part of recovery, and yes, they want you up on your feet and walking around pretty much as soon as you can GET on your feet.

[Shermie]

Yes, so much. My father had bypass surgery last year and they get em up to walk asap, it's all about circulation. The days of lying in bed for six weeks after surgery (while your muscles turned to jelly and your colon turned to concrete) are thankfully long past. Zeekmholding that pillow to his chest was spot on, and he is not supposed to use his arms to help him get up.

I really liked that the in-laws, Jasmine and Kristina, visit him and he treats them like his own. The end scene with Zeek and Kristina was great, and my god, Monica Potter is stunning. I hope she finds something appropriate (maybe a gentle family sitcom) after this.

That said, Kristina is a terrible headmistress. It is her job to help and be supportive to all her students, especially since many enroll in her school because they are not mainstream kids. And especially to a new kid, who has to adjust and fit in weeks after the school year began.

Nora is adorable and I love her natural, and what I assume to be unscripted, interactions with her TV family.

I hate forced apologies from anyone because, really, what's the point? The whole notion of pushing two "enemy"kids together and having one say "I'm sorry" is so contrived and insincere and it teaches nothing. Better to have them sit down and talk about what happened, who said what, why they said hurtful things, how did it make the other child feel, and does that bother you? But that requires parenting, something that is seriously lacking on a show ironically called Parenthood.

I was gripping my chair arms during Crosby's angry van drive around those curves, especially when they repeatedly focused on the cliffs. These death fakeouts will be the death of me.

But then he got all Braverman at the Silence Retreat. Gawd, Crosby, shut up already. I mean, I think the concept is silly, but the people chose to be there and he had no business ruining it for them. The client guy was just as bad, why not leave with Crosby if he's going to talk back? So disrespectful all around.

Glad to see that the Retirement House of 1000 Steps was actually acknowledged for being a bad idea. As large and sprawling as their old house was, it was actually better for seniors than their current place.

[econ07]

Julia did apologize, repeatedly. Joel refused to seek counseling or even try to work things out, so why is Julia supposed to just sit around waiting in limbo? Is it because she's a woman?

 

Why does either of them have to be "the villain?" Joel and Julia BOTH made mistakes, and they're both choosing how they deal with the consequences. That's how it works.

 

I don't get the sense that any of her apologies showed that she really put herself in his shoes or showed that she understood the trust she broke.  They were more like her daughter's apology to that girl ... "I'm sorry, OK."  Even the dude she cheated with looked at her and said, "I think you're going to have to dig deeper" when addressing her situation with Joel.  I thought the writers would get around to addressing this, and give Julia a real moment of understanding and contrition.  Probably not gonna happen at this point.

 

No one has to be the villain ... I just think he would be viewed as a villain if the situation were reversed.

[Lady Calypso]

And finally, Adam is simply awful.  I understand why Crosby is spiraling, if only because his business is failing and his business partner/brother seems entirely checked out, only occasionally showing up to yell at him for mistakes that Adam made.

 

 

Exactly. The Adam/Kristina household may be able to change jobs on a whim and be super successful, but Crosby is the only Braverman to stick with his passion for the entirety of the series. Even Julia quit her job to be a stay at home mom. Sarah's changed jobs how many times, and Adam and Kristina have jumped from job to job every season. So of course Crosby's spiral makes absolute sense. If he loses his business, that's it. He may be able to find another job in the music business, but he'll be demoted to a lower position. Adam doesn't care because he and his wife have their shiny new toy, but Crosby won't have that. They've shown Crosby struggle throughout the years. First with living on a boat, then moving in with Jasmine and Jabbar (and then Renee lived with them). That's what I like about Crosby's story; they portray him more realistically than Adam, Sarah and even sometimes Julia. 

[BC Mama]

I think that Kristina's talk with Dylan was extremely inappropriate to begin with! Max told Kristina and Adam about that Dylan was calling him "Aspergers" only after Kristina prodded Max at a family dinner. She needs to be able to separate herself from her job when she is at home. No wonder Max wanted to be sure he was talking to Adam the dad, not Adam the administrator when he was confiding in his crush!

[Lillybee]

I can't believe that I am saying this but I am impressed with Ray Romero's acting. He is bringing Hank to life.

 

I don't understand why Kristina is so pissed at Max wanting to cut his hair. Hair does grow back. I remember when I took my sons for haircuts and the barber would ask me how did I want their hair cut and I would reply ask them, it is their hair.

[Dust Bunny]

 

Something that I noticed upon rewatch in regards to Crosby's dangerous spiral: when Crosby came back and took the motorcycle, he didn't have a helmet on I'm pretty sure.

Yup, I noticed that too.

 

You know, I just realized I wish we had gotten to know Jasmine better. I feel like I know her as an individual less than any of the other spouses. That's a major bummer, because I think she's one of the most likable characters on this show. 

 

 

I don't mean to offend any motorcycle enthusiasts on the boards, but I know WAY too many people who have been killed and maimed on them, and I have strong feelings about people with family responsibilities engaging in that sort of risky behavior just for the sake of fun or coolness.

Slightly off-topic, but I absolutely agree. About a month ago, a motorcycle almost broadsided me at full speed. Somehow I was able to get past him; I have no idea how. He didn't have a helmet on. Even though he would have hit me, he would have died. I still have that vision of the near-accident. I've hated driving near motorcyclists or regular cyclists before; now I really hate it. Listen to Jasmine, Crosby!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I can only handle one Braverman man-child per episode so this week did not go well for me. Watching Zeke act like a brat with Camille reminded me so much of my dad during/after his cancer. I totally understand that recovering from these kinds of situation is taxing on both your body and mind, but it is so annoying to watch a spouse do everything to be positive and encouraging while the other person sits like a lump refusing to cooperate. It's not like Camille told Zeke to go run a marathon. She just wanted him to get off the couch and start walking, which is very important after most surgeries (and in general). When he refused to go outside, she compromised and offered to walk around the living room with him and he wouldn't even do that. It is so frustrating to see her try so hard to get him back to his normal healthy self (and no, you will not return to your normal state of health if you refuse to even get off the sofa to take a short walk because you NEED physical activity) while he behaves like a child.

 

Speaking of behaving like a child, Crosby's temper tantrum at the silent retreat was not surprising. Similar to when he freaked out because another diner DARED to mention that his screaming child was ruining dinner for an entire restaurant full of people, once again Crosby has a shit fit and starts verbally assaulting people. Whenever things don't go his way, he starts yelling. Gee, I wonder where he gets that.

 

Then his reaction is to drive home and get on his motorcycle while he's angry. Yup, that seems like a mature way to handle your stress. Bonus: pissing off your wife!

 

On a related note: retreats like that are ridiculously expensive so I expected the people at the front gate to tell him he had to fork over $2000 before he could come in.

 

Adam's behavior in the school kitchen showed exactly why he shouldn't be there. He was so busy arsing around with the boys giving them nicknames that he kept telling the girl who was repeatedly calling his name to wait. Dude, you are supervising children in a kitchen. When one of them calls your name, it could be any number of things (she cut herself, there is a fire, whatever) so you need to address that instead of going around to every kid to give them lame nicknames.

 

I was laughing SO HARD every time Christina had to deal with Dylan. Gee, now you know what it was like for every person at Max's old school who had to deal with him refusing to sit down, arguing with teachers, and generally being a pain in the ass.

 

No surprise, but Julia and Joel did not handle the bullying apology well at all. When Sydney stomped off to the car, I could practically hear the other parents thinking, "Well, now we know exactly why she is such a bitch to our kid since her parents clearly don't discipline her AT ALL." You'd think Sydney would at least be contrite for two whole minutes but since her parents taught her that there are absolutely no consequences for calling a girl fat and telling everyone not to eat with her at lunch, why bother to actually pretend to be sorry?

 

Minor pro for this episode: no crying Amber this week!

[Ms5h]

I think that Kristina's talk with Dylan was extremely inappropriate to begin with! Max told Kristina and Adam about that Dylan was calling him "Aspergers" only after Kristina prodded Max at a family dinner. She needs to be able to separate herself from her job when she is at home. No wonder Max wanted to be sure he was talking to Adam the dad, not Adam the administrator when he was confiding in his crush!

In her defense, Dylan did say it right in front of her as they were coming into the school. I did laugh at how annoyed Christina was at Dylan- exactly what kinds of kids did she expect to have at the school? I hope they have a school therapist, who should be helping troubled kids transition to a new school.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Ms5h

[alexvillage]

About Zeek:

Yes, he needs to walk and do his breathing exercises. But all this is supposed to begin while he is still at the hospital and they would not discharge him if they did not feel confident he was regaining some of his strength. At least this is how it happened to the people I know and I was a lot at the hospital with them. They had to walk to a certain point, reach a certain goal, then increase this goal until they were ready to go home. Same with the breathing exercise.

One of the people close to me was somewhat stubborn and kind of "lazy" but by the time she left the hospital she was actually a little enthusiastic about walking again.

Zeek is being stubborn and maybe a little depressed but the way Camille was dealing with it was terrible. Treating someone like a child is not how you deal with post op blues.

[Eeksquire]

 

You know, I just realized I wish we had gotten to know Jasmine better. I feel like I know her as an individual less than any of the other spouses. That's a major bummer, because I think she's one of the most likable characters on this show.

That might be cause and effect.  Just sayin'.

 

I have to say that it's quite a trick the writers have pulled off, making Kristina simultaneously the most annoying character of the week (all interactions with Snowflake Academy and Max, as per usual) and the MVP of the week (in her dealings with Zeke and the background work behind Adam and Camille).  

 

Also, I cannot help but feel really sorry for Crosby.  Opening his own studio was his long-held dream and Adam's ignorance is going to tank it.  And Adam continually berates Crosby for being "bad at business", but in this case, it's ADAM who screwed up, because he didn't take the time to learn (or even try to learn) about the industry he's operating in before he drafted a contract.  (And this whole storyline bugs anyway.  Not for nothing, as a new business owner in an unfamiliar industry, there's this thing you can do to get advice, even if only to help you figure out what your standard terms should be and that is: HIRE A LAWYER.  Hire a lawyer that understands the industry specifically to draft a form contract for you that you can use over and over again.  Hell, TALK TO YOUR SISTER, the lawyer, who could probably point you in the direction of one who might do it at a reduced rate or as a favor to her.)

 

If there's anything satisfying about this final season, it's watching Perfect Adam and Perfect Julia get knocked down a couple of pegs, even if the audience is the only one that will figure that out.

[txhorns79]

I don't mean to offend any motorcycle enthusiasts on the boards, but I know WAY too many people who have been killed and maimed on them, and I have strong feelings about people with family responsibilities engaging in that sort of risky behavior just for the sake of fun or coolness.

 

I think the key to not offending would be to not make assumptions about why someone may have a motorcycle.  

 

You'd think Sydney would at least be contrite for two whole minutes but since her parents taught her that there are absolutely no consequences for calling a girl fat and telling everyone not to eat with her at lunch, why bother to actually pretend to be sorry?

 

I don't think we've seen that there are no consequences for Sydney.  Obviously, being forced to apologize when she clearly doesn't want to would be a consequence.  I view this situation as one where Julia and Joel blame themselves to the point where they don't really know how to deal with Sydney.  I get the sense they feel whatever they do to Sydney, it won't solve the underlying problem until they have resolved the underlying problem (i.e. their marriage.)  I'm not saying they are handling this right, I just think they are generally struggling to do the right thing, so I sympathize with them.     

[Brookside]

Motorbike rider = organ donor.