S29.E04: We're A Hot Mess

[kassa]

I do wish we'd seen more of the Blue team becuase Drew's constant refrain that there were "snakes" on the tribe had no context at all.  And what made Kelly the head snake?  (Having watched all the episodes?!?!?)

 

 

She pretty openly rolled her eyes every time he spoke, whether at challenges, or at camp.  And above and beyond that, she verbally distanced herself from him multiple times to Jeff when he was trying to barter the flint.  She wasn’t at all subtle about it.  So I think she was a snake because she disrespected him, ergo she needed to be booted.  What he didn’t grasp is that the others felt much the same, but made an effort to hide it.

 

Loved that critter crawling with the babies on its back.  Some kind of lemur?

 

I suspect the idiot planned to throw it, then was thrown by he fact that the other team actually scored so quickly (or at least it appeared so by editing).  After all, he's not a person who gives any credit for skill or brains to anybody who isn't himself, so he probably thought he really had to lay it on thick to give them time to win.  Then it seemed like Keith and the other guy were alternating successful tosses, and so Drew had to suddenly go into overdrive to try to make it look good.  And couldn't.  

[Way Wes Jr]

I’m watching on the CBS player, so I’m going to write comments during the commercials.  The beginning of this will have a bit of a “live blog” feel.

 

Oh Lord, four minutes in, and I’m already hoping Hunahpu commits Survivor heresy and throws the immunity challenge to get rid of Drew.  I think I need to put out another, “Good job editors.”

 

Dear Alec, the worst tribe in Survivor history was Ulong.  That’s why that tribe name is used as an adjective or verb.  Of course, you’d know that if you’d really ever watched the show.  frickin’ recruit.

 

Survivor-Gods karmic smackdown a-comin’.  But the editors are having a blast trying to confuse which Hunahpu member deserves it more.  I’m loving this episode.

 

Jon wants to get rid of Julie, for a not entirely stupid reason.
Drew wants to get rid of Kelley, for - from his perspective, not an entirely stupid reason.  (Is he right?  I don’t know, this is the first episode we’ve seen much of Hunahpu.)
Jeremy wants to get rid of Keith, again, for a not entirely stupid reason.
Of course, none of them can competently argue their point of view.  (Caveat: Jon did make his case in a very logical fashion, it was just steamrolled by the Drew train.)

 

Rankings are spoiler/preview free, and for making the merge.

Coyopa (Orange)

Since we had a ton of catching up to do on Hunahpu, there was no footage of these folk.  As such there are no changes from last week.

 

1. Wes  2. Alec  3. Baylor  4. Josh  5. Jaclyn  6. Dale

Dale cements his position by absorbing all of John’s trash-talking stupidity upon Rocker’s exit.

 

Hunahpu (Blue)

The votes were all over the place.  Jon voted for Keith?  Keith and Reed voted for Julie?

 

1. Keith (8)  Only because of the idol.  Did Jeremy truly not look for the idol?

 

2. Kelley (2)
3. Natalie (4)  I thought about switching these two, but there wasn’t that much evidence that Natalie has more sway than Kelley, (though she is much more commonly seen with groups that are having a conversation.  Invited, or “just putting herself there,” still good for her, but again, I’m only ranking for the merge atm.)

 

4. Jeremy (1) The abrasive factor for you really jumped this episode.  However, the alliance I believed you were in - switching Julie in for Keith - voted as a block.  And seriously, how did you not have the idol?

 

5. Reed (3) Invisible, (again!,) and in the minority.
6. Missy (6) Not entirely invisible, but portrayed as a supportive “mom” character, which: duh.  Not as a valuable strategist.
7. Julie (9) Also, pretty invisible.  Played the, “I knew I was going to have to play ‘my own game,’ based on how John was acting,” card early, and well.

 

8. Jon (5) Showed some valid strategic thinking, by wanting to get rid of the singletons.  And Julie, as a choice, should have been an easy vote to rally potential allies for.  But where did the vote for Keith come from?  A 5-Drew, 3-Julie, 1-Kelley final vote makes narrative sense, but ... I just don’t know.  Lost cause man, the beta’s both voted for the target you wanted.

 

BYE Drew (7)  You really thought you were hot shit, didn’t you?  There were three Alpha’s vying for control, and you did everything you could to get yourself voted out. 1. You threw a challenge.  Without talking to your tribe about it!  (Now admittedly, part of this is the fact that you decided to do this at Exile Island, but still - unilateral decision: bad. [if you had talked to your ‘alliance’ earlier you would have noted that Jon was thinking Julie already, and could have had a counter-argument in place other than, “I said so.”])  2. You told a group, including Natalie, that if you don’t vote out the women, they’ll come gunning for the men.  3. You told Keith and Jon/Reed that the vote was for Kelley, with Kelley standing three feet away.  4. You were lazy around camp.  (And, the eye-rolls from Kelley were priceless.  If I made GIF’s, I’d make one (some) of the classic ones she shot this episode.)  I nominate you for candidacy for inclusion amongst The Worst Survivors Ever Hall of Shame.

[truthaboutluv]

2. Kelley (2)

3. Natalie (4)  I thought about switching these two, but there wasn’t that much evidence that Natalie has more sway than Kelley, (though she is much more commonly seen with groups that are having a conversation.

 

 

I'm not sure I get this. I feel like if there wasn't that much evidence Natalie has more sway than Kelley, I can say I saw no evidence that Kelley has any sway at all. From what the editing showed, Natalie was the one who first voiced out loud getting rid of Drew to Missy and then she was the one to make the possibly risky move of bringing it up to Jeremy, to get him on board. Honestly  Kelley just seemed baffled most of the episode, as to why Drew wanted her gone and thought she was scheming against him. That is when she wasn't making it clear she couldn't stand him.

[blackwing]

From previous episodes, most of the tribe had issues with Drew and his laziness.  They said all he did was sleep and then he refused to help with the leaves and said that he's not a weaver and then went and took a nap.  He was visibly pissed when the tribe traded the fishing gear for the flint, he was shaking his head in the stands when they said they needed the fire.  I'm thinking he just didn't get along with most of the women.

 

And Drew's fellow "thrower", Julie, was apparently far more hopeless than he was, even though he was trying to miss and she wasn't;  we never even saw a single one of her attempts, no "oh, almost"s to contrast with Drew clearly tanking it.  (In fact, Drew scored the only point Hunahpu got.)

I'm pretty sure Reed was the other thrower and I did wonder why when Drew was sucking so badly they didn't switch places once especially because both Josh and Dale were throwing for Coyopa.

Julie was the other thrower.  It seems the people who did the swim weren't allowed to throw.  Jon, Jeremy and Kelly sat out.  Missy, Reed, Natalie and Keith did the swim.  That left Drew and Julie as throwers.  From what I saw, Drew didn't even allow Julie to take a turn.  She's standing there on the platform waiting for her turn but he just keeps going.  Josh and Dale were alternating, but Drew just skipped Julie's turn, obviously so he could control the challenge and lose it.  That's why I thought Jeff's "Drew is singlehandedly losing this challenge for Hunapu" was warranted, regardless of whether it was edited in later or not.

[BluenoserGal]

I was reading Drew's interview on Zap2It -- is it offside to quote another forum/article here?     If so, sorry.   But this is his answer to calling the women bitches.  "I called the girls b****es, yeah, that's true, but I was also really good friends with all of them other than Kelley. ... Your perception's your reality and kind of what you see is what you believe."

 

He kept repeating, "your perception's your reality..."      Uhhh, that doesn't excuse it, nor even explain it.  Bro.   

[FineWashables]

When I first saw that the Twiiiinnnniiieees were on this season I thought, Hell no, vote them off first.  And so I was happy to see one go.  But I have to say, despite my initial prejudice against these annoying sisters, that Nadiya's really impressing me.  She's strong, she's smart, she's good at challenges, and she's got more social game than I would ever have imagined -- probably because I thought she wouldn't have any.  And since there's only one now, we don't have to listen to anyone yell Twiiiinnnniiieee all the time, which really makes her so much more likeable.  I am amazed to say that I'm kind of rooting for her.

 

I'm so glad the tribe didn't go along with Drew's decision to be Kingpin.  I thought we were in for some Hantzing, and I'm relieved that we're not.  Deciding to throw a challenge to vote some people off is an idiotic idea, but throwing a challenge when you don't know who you want to vote off is... well, something even stupider.

 

Jeff called Drew out during the challenge with "Drew is singlehandedly losing this challenge for his team!", and then again during tribal when he pointed out that it was hard to believe how badly he'd screwed up the win.  Isn't it weird that not one person on that team seemed to notice?

[cooksdelight]

Natalie is the remaining twin, I believe.

I think a couple of people noticed, mainly Julie, but didn't say anything. She had to have noticed he wasn't letting her throw and wonder why, since he was throwing so badly.

[iMonrey]

What did it for me was that blatantly obvious edited-in "commentary" from Probst during the IC:  "Drew is single-handedly losing this challenge for his tribe!".  Puh-leeez.  You know Probst would NEVER be so critical of anyone with a penis unless it was scripted. (And Jeff was, of course, off-camera when he "said" that.)

 

That's an interesting observation, because I thought something was wonky about the editing. We didn't see anyone on Drew's tribe even discussing the possibility that he had thrown the challenge, which seemed awfully obvious to me, and even Jeff seemed to be calling him out on it. Also, this is something that Jeff usually jumps on at tribal council: "Drew - how responsible did you feel for your tribe's loss today?" But again, not one mention of this at TC. 

 

Something else that stuck out to me was at the beginning when Coyopa was discussing John's boot, they all mentioned something about the negativity John was bringing to their tribe. Yet we saw very little of this aside from the confrontation he had with Natalie the previous episode. Made me wonder if maybe John had been a total ass to his tribe the whole time but was being given a white-washed edit.

 

Now I'm wondering if they're all jerks, and we don't get to see it until the episode where they're voted off.

[Charlesman]

One of my favorite lesser moments in this episode was Alec trying to read the challenge poem, but so totally messing up the meter and rhymes that Josh had to interrupt to get Baylor to read it so he could understand it.

[leighdear]

Superficially, I think part of my distaste for Jeremy is his resemblance to one of my least favorite Survivors ever, Gervase.  Couldn't stand him either time he competed, though he was more a goat for Tyson in the last BvW.  

 

I know that's shallow, but true for me.  

[blackwing]

Your perception's your reality and kind of what you see is what you believe."

I love that Drew is basically claiming that he was edited poorly.  At least that's what I think he's trying to say.  He's trying to sound all profound and intellectual and in the end, doesn't make a lot of sense.  Reminds me of a line from one of those toolish Average Joes.  He was this bookish and nerdy dude trying to impress the beautiful princess, and he said something like "it is the simplicity of your complexity that is the catalyst of my infatuation."  She swooned, but probably had no idea what he was saying.  She was just impressed by the three dollar words.  I feel like Drew is trying to sound just as mysterious and cryptic.  He fails.

 

Can't edit words that actually came out of his mouth.  He thought he was the kingpin, brazenly declared that Kelly was going home because he decreed it and all the guys would vote with him, didn't care if she heard, didn't care if everyone knew he threw the challenge.  On top of that, the episode where he said "you know, I'm a famous model" and where he whined that he was the only one building the shelter, when Jon was sitting right next to him helping just as much.

 

Probably one of the bigger self-absorbed delusional idiots to ever appear on the show.

Edited October 16, 2014 by blackwing

[FineWashables]

Also laughed at Drew's quote about if you're not with me, you're against me.  Yeah, it's ok when Jesus said it, but you?  Not so much.

[needschocolate]

I was reading Drew's interview on Zap2It -- is it offside to quote another forum/article here?     If so, sorry.   But this is his answer to calling the women bitches.  "I called the girls b****es, yeah, that's true, but I was also really good friends with all of them other than Kelley. ... Your perception's your reality and kind of what you see is what you believe."

 

He kept repeating, "your perception's your reality..."      Uhhh, that doesn't excuse it, nor even explain it.  Bro.   

Yup, my perception is my reality -  and Drew's delusion is his reality, but it isn't real to anyone else.

[ShadowSixx]

Drew's plan to throw the game may have been helpful if he included Jon, Reed, Keith, and maybe Jeremy in on the plans on what he was doing and who he's trying to get rid of. If you have an alliance, the best thing to do is use them, not think that you're Chuck Norris and can do it all by yourself. I didn't understand why he didn't huddle with the guys and say, "Hey, I want to throw the next challenge because Kelley is trying to get rid of the guys." Whether he's telling the truth or not whatever but he thought he could pull off his plan all by himself like an idiot. Drew was in an alliance with himself. Idiot.

[green]

If they do merge next time, I'd love for the women to band together - but keep it a secret.  The yellow tribe females could maybe convince Josh or Dale to stick with them since they still have "loved ones" on the other side.  The blue tribe 4 females could convince Reed to join them and maybe Keith b/c he's scared of Jeremy.  That'd be an alliance of up to 10 players from both sides and a super secret sub-alliance of 6 females.  It may not last them til the end but they could reduce the number of the He Man Women Hater's Club (Jeremy, Jon, Alec) before it fell apart.  I wish the women could make a stand and run the game.

 

We've seen from episode 1 that Jeremy has been allied with the women.  Remember early on he had his alliance together of himself and the women and needed to pull in one other guy and figured it would be Keith cause of the firefighter connection.

 

Granted this episode's editing seemed weird in that it seemed to indicate he was with the other men but I wonder if that was just a cover he has been maintaining to them all along.  Jeremy neither voted with the men nor against Keith even but in lockstep with the women getting rid of Drew.  Which says to me that their alliance has indeed remained together since day one.

 

It was Jon who voted for Keith and not Jeremy as well.  Wonder if Jeremy even had secretly lobbied Jon for a Keith vote helping to split the males further because otherwise why would Jon have voted for Keith?  So much of the strategy remains hidden on Survivor shows.

 

Someone above wanted to know who Keith and Reed voted for.  They voted for Julie.  Which says that Drew couldn't even bring along anyone with him to vote against the "head snake" Kelly.

Edited October 16, 2014 by green

[msmongolian]

I was reading Drew's interview on Zap2It -- is it offside to quote another forum/article here?     If so, sorry.   But this is his answer to calling the women bitches.  "I called the girls b****es, yeah, that's true, but I was also really good friends with all of them other than Kelley. ... Your perception's your reality and kind of what you see is what you believe."

 

He kept repeating, "your perception's your reality..."      Uhhh, that doesn't excuse it, nor even explain it.  Bro.   

 

Not sure if it's ok to quote outside content, but I think it might be ok to link?  I was going to mention that I read Drew's interview with Gordon Holmes and he basically called Kelley a b**** again.  When Gordon asked him why, his answer basically boiled down to: (1) she got the same portion of food as he did, (2) she knows a lot about Survivor, and (3) she was trying to vote out him and Jon.  Of course, Survivor megafan Jeremy also voted against Drew, but Drew calls him "calculating."

[Lakewood27]

I agree with those who think Drew hit on Kelley and she shut him down. It is the only thing that makes sense. Getting an equal portion of rice and being a superfan, don't seem like legitimate reasons. It also explains why no one else voted for Kelley.

[angelita100]

There's passionate dislike for the twinnies but their first time around on TAR they were kinda popular until the money incident. I loved them from beginning to end for their brashness and smarts and forgave them their excesses.  I didn't feel they were "mean spirited."  I was hoping that they wouldn't get the "you were on survivor" you're out first vote.  The twinnies were very social on TAR - they seemed to be friendly with most of the teams. And I love how they plotted that UTurn to get rid of that tean I couldn't stand. Well I think it was a U-Turn.

Loved the show!  I have to say that I will never do another survivor pool. I had 3 choices..and I admit to not reading up too much on the participants.  I picked Nadiya because I wanted to pick a twin. I stupidly picked Val because I thought if there was one black woman who could make it through the game it's this cop.  And I picked Drew because  he looked  like the survivor "type" that Jeff loves. LOL Ten dollars down the drain.

[fishcakes]

When I first saw that the Twiiiinnnniiieees were on this season I thought, Hell no, vote them off first.  And so I was happy to see one go.  But I have to say, despite my initial prejudice against these annoying sisters, that Nadiya's really impressing me.  She's strong, she's smart, she's good at challenges, and she's got more social game than I would ever have imagined -- probably because I thought she wouldn't have any.  And since there's only one now, we don't have to listen to anyone yell Twiiiinnnniiieee all the time, which really makes her so much more likeable.  I am amazed to say that I'm kind of rooting for her.

 

I completely agree. I'm kind of rooting for Natalie too, which seems wrong in theory, but since there are so few interesting players this season, I guess it makes sense. Even in the first episode, she seemed like she might be nicer -- or at least have a better social game -- than her sister, and I don't know but maybe that was true on TAR as well but their shrieky togetherness masked it.

 

 

That's an interesting observation, because I thought something was wonky about the editing. We didn't see anyone on Drew's tribe even discussing the possibility that he had thrown the challenge, which seemed awfully obvious to me, and even Jeff seemed to be calling him out on it. Also, this is something that Jeff usually jumps on at tribal council: "Drew - how responsible did you feel for your tribe's loss today?" But again, not one mention of this at TC.

 

Jeff didn't call out Drew directly, but he did say something like, "your team lost the challenge to an old guy; what do you have to say about that, Drew?" alluding to Drew tossing rings against Dale. In reply, Drew douchebagged something about how, "maybe we could have had better swimmers, maybe we could have better retrievers, I did the best I could," and I was surprised the rest of the tribe didn't rise up and kick the hell out of him right then and there. It's one thing to unilaterally decide to throw a challenge and then single-handedly lose it, but to then not own it is weak. All the other kingpins and famous models are ashamed to call him one of their own now.

Edited October 16, 2014 by fishcakes

[RedheadZombie]

I believe that Survivor and Big Brother cast 99% of their females by the size of their implants, and how good they look in a bikini.  As much as I don't like Natalie, I appreciate that she is a strong athletic woman who falls outside this mold.  If the twinnies were not already known as being polarizing from TAR, I don't believe they would have been cast.

 

Drew and Alec must have attended the same Jeff Spicoli school of brain dead nasal surfers.

 

I appreciated John telling Drew he was being a jackass.

 

I loved the irony of Alec labeling his tribe as the heroic David fighting against Goliath.  Dude - you voted out the closest thing to Goliath this show had last week!

 

I'm always surprised when a dominating team gets cocky and decides to throw a challenge to get off an annoying member.  Any sports fan know how important momentum is, and to deliberately chose to end it is incredibly stupid - especially when it's a unilateral decision, like last night.   Often there is a reversal of fortune, and I'm a little disappointed because

it looks like they're switching the tribes up next week.

[millennium]

Jeff didn't call out Drew directly, but he did say something like, "your team lost the challenge to an old guy; what do you have to say about that, Drew?" alluding to Drew tossing rings against Dale. In reply, Drew douchebagged something about how, "maybe we could have had better swimmers, maybe we could have better retrievers, I did the best I could," and I was surprised the rest of the tribe didn't rise up and kick the hell out of him right then and there.

 

I was hoping the woman whose company Drew shared on Exile Island (forgive me, I can't recall her name) would shout to Drew's team "he deliberately threw the challenge, he told me he planned to do it while we were on the island" at the conclusion of the immunity challenge.   It would have made for some fascinating discussion back at camp.   But Survivor is not a show about big moments.

 

Regarding the rest of the show ... why didn't Drew simply approach each member of his team privately and urge them to vote him out?   He would have secured the same result without all the bad feelings.

 

I hope his despicable sibling follows him home soon.

Edited October 16, 2014 by millennium

[Skittl1321]

 

If the twinnies were not already known as being polarizing from TAR, I don't believe they would have been cast.

I agree with you.  I also think that their notoriety from TAR means Natalie probably had enough clout in the contract to tell the producers what swimsuit she'd be wearing.

 

I have to think most women would choose something more practical for challenges than the tiny bikinis they all wear.

[cooksdelight]

I have to think most women would choose something more practical for challenges than the tiny bikinis they all wear

Production chooses them. They don't. Productions hopes they fall off.

[willpwr]

Not sure if it's ok to quote outside content, but I think it might be ok to link?  I was going to mention that I read Drew's interview with Gordon Holmes and he basically called Kelley a b**** again.  When Gordon asked him why, his answer basically boiled down to: (1) she got the same portion of food as he did, (2) she knows a lot about Survivor, and (3) she was trying to vote out him and Jon.  Of course, Survivor megafan Jeremy also voted against Drew, but Drew calls him "calculating."

She's a bitch because she ate? LOL, I imagine they all got equal portions of food, I'd think Reed and Jeremy were also superfans based on their interviews and also knew about Survivor but of course they're men, so that's okay and Natalie is pretty game savvy, as for his 3rd point then he needs to learn basic math. I definitely agree with some posters, he might have made a pass at Kelley and she probably shut him down and was very clear she didn't find him charming or cute so he took it personally. He was so proud of himself when Jaclyn said his brother called him a ladies man and seemed like he was trying to be cool about it, checked her out then said he wouldn't take his friend's girl basically, like he actually stood a chance and like she's property. I imagine he'd been talking non-stop about how he would have been able to provide for them if only they hadn't traded the fishing gear for a flint. It's crazy to me when comparing his attitude to John Rocker's last week in regards to fishing, that John came off as more humble.

[Alapaki]

Re: Keith and the Jeremy idol talk - I think Keith panicked.  A lot of people have to talk about things when they're stressed out as a way of sorting through it all, instead of processing things solo.

 

 

I thought this too.  Combine frustration over not finding the HII, being over-impressed with himself for deducing that Jeremy probably had, and being a person who may not tend to consider that keeping information to himself might be more valuable, and you get Keith.

 

But, then I heard his defense to Jeremy at TC.  Unless I misunderstood him, it amounted to "If I didn't tell the Tribe and only talked to you, they would've suspected that you had the HII" . . . so . . . I told them you actually did have it?!?!?

 

So I think it may just be a case of Keith being someone who is really awful at Survivor.

 

As far as throwing challenges, I wouldn't go so far as to say it should never be done.  I can foresee scenarios where it makes sense.  

 

But I think it makes absolutely no sense to go rogue and throw a challenge without being damn sure ahead of time that you have solid numbers to get the TC outcome you're throwing the challenge to get.

[Donny Ketchum]

In the previews, that dark-haired guy was upset about something. Could anybody decipher what he said?

Jon shows his true colors next week, apparently.  He's going off on the women hard for voting Drew out and basically being outplayed.  He even throws in a curse word at them.  So much for the "good attitude" PaperTree mentioned.

 

It was definitely a good episode.  I, too, liked that Josh had no confessionals at all, and only Baylor, Jaclyn, Alec, and Dale did for Coyopa.  Seems like everyone but Missy and Reed had one on Hunahpu tonight.

 

The Reward and Immunity Challenges both looked fun!  Too bad Drew had to throw the latter one.  I'd have loved getting a piece of that one!

 

In the Baylor/Alec dust-up, I easily side with Baylor.  Alec's as juvenile, misogynistic, and entitled as his jerk brother.  What Baylor said and did sounded and looked innocent enough to me.

 

Good for the women of Hunahpu!  That's what women need to do in this game!  Take notes, Baylor!  Drew never saw it coming, and he still doesn't see the real reason he was blindsided!

 

Fantastic episode!  Really, as long as a man went, I'd have been fine with it! :)

[Donny Ketchum]

I would bet like, a whole nickle, that that was creative sound byte splicing. Pretty sure John was trying to cover himself by saying he would have happily voted with the group, and backing it up by quoting Drew's hyperbolic threats of dominance as evidence he never liked Drew anyway. John doesn't seem like one for melodramatics.

I think that was real, unfortunately.  I will eat crow if he does admit he's covering, but that looks like anger over being bested to me.

[Kromm]

Wow. Drew is one of the stupidest people ever on this show.  

[needschocolate]

The only time it makes sense to throw a challenge is if you are getting rid of the crazy guy, who you fear so much that you hide the machete so he doesn't murder you.  Technically, they didn't throw a challenge to get rid of Brandon, they forfeited, but it made sense in that case. 

[NutMeg]

I'm a bit uncomfortable with pseudo psychological reveals on Survivor, like the one we had from Alec.

 

But it started me thinking that maybe this season casting deliberately choose some pairs that might not have such a close bond. I'm thinking Alec/Drew and their baggage, Kelley and her dad who didn't talk for a few years, Misty/Baylor where there seemed to be an undercurrent of animosity based on the sumo challenge. There may be more that we don't know about yet. If that is the case, the dynamic might not be necessarily what we'd expect in a "loved ones" season this time.

 

Otherwise, back to clothing choices, someone above (sorry, cannot find the quote now) mentioned Natalie being savvy enough to secure appropriate wear. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I noticed in the past that returning players usually have better gear than newbies, starting from Stephenie back in Guatemala. Maybe production don't think we'll buy that they would made bad choices twice and think we are still in the dark as to who actually makes the choices. They might not be completely wrong there, as every season some people comment on the idiots coming on Survivor with [insert your choice here] :-)  

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

With Rocker out of the game, who will step up to fill the jackass vacancy? Let's find out!

http://previously.tv/survivor/twin-killing/"> Read the story

 

There appears to be a line forming to apply of that position.

 

I was surprised that Jaclyn didn't call him out after the IC, i.e. "You threw the challenge, just like you said you would. Well done!"

 

That would've been brilliant as a way of protecting Jon by putting Drew in the hotseat.  I wonder if she at least told her own tribe.

[KimberStormer]

Well I thought that was a spectacular comedy episode of Survivor.  I haven't laughed that much at this show for ages.  Absolutely wonderful from beginning to end.  I am going to miss Drew, he had the potential to be a true Survivor legend a la Coach.  I have to say that, while he's obviously a goony, self-regarding moron, I didn't actually in practice find him so sexist.  At least his stated reasons for wanting Kelley out were all very respectably game-oriented, not "she's sucking our souls with her negative energy" kind of nonsense.  They were based in her strength, not her weakness, and I like that.  Especially since the show itself gave her no such respect--I don't really understand why people are saying she's been revealed as a strong player, when all she did that I saw was complain about being targeted by Drew and roll her eyes at him a bunch.

 

Speaking of not understanding things, I still don't get the Baylor hate--but then if there's one thing I've seen this year from Previously.tv it's that a lot of people hate women on TV for reasons I cannot grasp.  I thought Jon was thinking very smartly in targeting the singletons.  He's the one who name-checked J'Tia, so I assume he also watched the first BvW and knows the danger they pose to those who still have partners in the game.  Personally I did not see Jeremy as "flying off the handle" or "full of anger" or anything; I felt like I understood both him and Keith there.  Both of them should have zipped it, certainly, but both were fairly reasonable in my opinion, and I didn't see anything unusual about Jeremy's annoyance.

 

Finally, I am not in the slightest a believer in the "never throw challenges" 'rule' of Survivor, but Drew provided here a master class in how not to do it.  He did every single thing wrong.

 

I was surprised that Jaclyn didn't call him out after the IC, i.e. "You threw the challenge, just like you said you would. Well done!"

 

I don't know how the rest of her tribe would feel about that.  I remember very well Jonny Fairplay's brilliantly evil crushing of Morgan's morale by casually revealing that the challenge they finally won had been thrown, his most heartless moment for my money.  Andrew Savage's burbling, slowly increasing dismay and rage as he found he could not deny to himself that it was true.  Given how psyched the rest of Coyopa seemed to finally win, I think Jaclyn was wise to keep the throwing thing quiet.

 

Probst is something else. "Jacklyn, are you offended that your boyfriend actually respects you and believes you are not worthless solely based on the fact that you have a vagina?" Like what the fuck?! I loved that Jon didn't play into all that "men must protect their womenfolk" shit that Probst has been spouting and the men have be oh so willing to buy into. 

 

Seriously, Jesus Christ Probst!  Get it together man!  I think this contrast is part of what made me note Drew's being not-that-bad in regards to Kelley.

 

Finally I am interested in the show, though I don't have any rooting interest yet.  I wish there was more Reed.  I wanted to root for Spider-Man.

Edited October 17, 2014 by KimberStormer

[RedheadZombie]

Speaking of not understanding things, I still don't get the Baylor hate--but then if there's one thing I've seen this year from Previously.tv it's that a lot of people hate women on TV for reasons I cannot grasp. 

 

I've had a vague generalized dislike for Baylor, but I liked her this episode.  She handled Alec well - I would have done the whole, "What?  Because I'm a woman, I have to wash the pot?"  I do think she's misreading Alec.  I don't think he's bickering because he sees her as a sister.  In his mind, he's putting her in her place.

 

 

Anyone else think that Baylor and Wes look a lot alike?  I think they look more like each other, than their parents.

[Gweilo]

In the previews, Jon seemed to be upset that they voted Drew out without consulting him, and was throwing a hissy fit because no one listens to him.

 

I'm admittedly a Jon fan, but I don't think he's throwing a hissy fit.  In the preview, he first says something like "If you'd told me, I would have voted with you guys" in a fairly neutral tone of voice.  Then there's a cut and he says, almost like he's in storytelling mode: "You're either with me, or against me, and if you're not, you don't know what the fuck's going on" in a much more dramatic tone of voice.  To me, it looks like the second part is him recounting what someone else (possibly Drew?) said.  I could be wrong though!

 

And I absolutely loved the way he and Jaclyn interacted at the reward challenge.  I'm not one for sentimentality, but the big hug, kiss, "I love you" "I miss you" was loving, short, and the sign of a stable couple.  And I adored how they both were like: "Jaclyn'll be fine on exile island.  Yep, she'll be fine.  No, Jon's not going to spend hours worrying about how she'll cope.  Really.  She'll be fine.  Even though she's female."  Wonder if they were also trying to make a subtle dig at Jeremy's "I must protect my wife" hysteria a couple of weeks ago.

[allthatglitters]

So let me get this straight. They find the flint right by the fire pit? So wtf happened? Jon doesn't find it in his pocket so he announces he's lost the flint. So everyone, including Jon, just must have accepted that sad fact as irreversible and never even tried to look for it. I mean beside the fire pit would be the first place to look if they had even tried no? They don't deserve the fishing gear.

Good riddance to Drew. That was enjoyable I must admit, watching him throw a challenge to get rid of the snakes and he's the one that has to slither off.

[SVNBob]

So let me get this straight. They find the flint right by the fire pit? So wtf happened? Jon doesn't find it in his pocket so he announces he's lost the flint. So everyone, including Jon, just must have accepted that sad fact as irreversible and never even tried to look for it. I mean beside the fire pit would be the first place to look if they had even tried no?

I think they were (or at least just Jon was) under the impression that the flint had fallen into the fire itself.  And it may have.  Natalie did find it fairly close to the edge of the pit and the old flint did appear either sandier and/or ashier than the new flint.  But what probably happened was it got buried in the sand or they (meaning Jon again) were standing on it while searching and Natalie just happened to uncover it when she sat down that day.

[NutMeg]

Speaking of not understanding things, I still don't get the Baylor hate--but then if there's one thing I've seen this year from Previously.tv it's that a lot of people hate women on TV for reasons I cannot grasp.

 

KimberStormer, I think you'll find that the dislike is pretty much equal opportunity in this forum - so far this season, amongst the men we have seen John, Drew, Josh, Jeremy, Alec, maybe also Keith and Drew, in small doses, and Jon based on previews, and within the women group the Twins, Baylor and mayyybe (some disparaging comments about physical appearance of) Julie, so unless I've missed a few people, the women are actually viewed in a more favorable light as a group.

 

I'm new here too, refugee from TWoP, but so far I like this website a lot!

 

As to the dislike for Baylor (I think "hate" is too strong here), some of us answered in the previous episode (I think) thread.   

[FirstBootFodder]

I'm admittedly a Jon fan, but I don't think he's throwing a hissy fit.  In the preview, he first says something like "If you'd told me, I would have voted with you guys" in a fairly neutral tone of voice.  Then there's a cut and he says, almost like he's in storytelling mode: "You're either with me, or against me, and if you're not, you don't know what the fuck's going on" in a much more dramatic tone of voice.  To me, it looks like the second part is him recounting what someone else (possibly Drew?) said.  I could be wrong though!

 

I too viewed the scene in the same way on the rewatch.  On the rewatch, I paid more attention to the cut itself, and then the tone of voice, and The Spousal Unit and I could make an argument that he might have been telling tales of the Dearly Departed Drew.  Obviously, we'll know for sure on Wednesday, but after the rewatch, I definitely thought this theory has some legs to it.  

[loki567]

I'm not sure I get this. I feel like if there wasn't that much evidence Natalie has more sway than Kelley, I can say I saw no evidence that Kelley has any sway at all. From what the editing showed, Natalie was the one who first voiced out loud getting rid of Drew to Missy and then she was the one to make the possibly risky move of bringing it up to Jeremy, to get him on board. Honestly  Kelley just seemed baffled most of the episode, as to why Drew wanted her gone and thought she was scheming against him. That is when she wasn't making it clear she couldn't stand him.

 

Totally agree. Not sure why people are gaga over Kelley. She didn't actually do anything except voice frustration about Drew.  

Edited October 17, 2014 by loki567

[cooksdelight]

They don't deserve the fishing gear.

They are highly likely to hook each other, get tangled up in the fishing line, choke someone with the netting and possibly spear one another.

[ProfCrash]

2. Kelley (2)
3. Natalie (4)  I thought about switching these two, but there wasn’t that much evidence that Natalie has more sway than Kelley, (though she is much more commonly seen with groups that are having a conversation.  Invited, or “just putting herself there,” still good for her, but again, I’m only ranking for the merge atm.)

 

I would reverse these because Natalie was the only women involved in the conversation when the guys were talking as a group. Natalie and Jeremy were in both alliances. Natalie brought the information back to the ladies before Drew started being a massive asshole in front of Kelly making it obvious that Drew was targeting her. I think Natalie is someone who can connect with the men and the women. Rocker said in his exit interview that Nadiya behaved like any baseball player in the locker room and I get the feeling that Natalie does the same thing. Drew flat out said that Natalie was in his mens alliance. I think that gives Natalie and edge over Kelly in terms of navigating the end game.

Edited October 17, 2014 by ProfCrash

[cooksdelight]

I think you're right, ProfCrash, also because quite a few of them know of Natalie and the "twinnies" reputation from TAR and the audience's reaction to them. Both sides might see her as an asset as being someone that a jury wouldn't vote for. I sort of got that vibe in this episode. She's also shown she's tough, physically, which the guys appreciate at this point in the game.

[Alapaki]

With the caveat that I still fucking hate Natalie, I have to begrudgingly agree that she may have been the one really pulling the strings on getting Drew booted.

 

IIRC, she was the one who united the women by telling then that Drew was afraid of a men vs. women split.  I wouldn't be surprised if Natalie was also the one who pulled in Jeremy to vote against Drew (instead of Keith who was his initial target).

 

Ultimately though, although I love the schadenfreude of seeing Drew eliminated, I wonder if it was a wise long-term decision.  Both he and his brother had shown themselves to be such colossal douche-nozzles that I don't think either of them had much chance of winning at FTC.  In fact, if the FTC involved those two and one other person, it might be the first time in Survivor history that Probst stopped the jury before they voted and just said "oh fuck it" and handed the check to the other finalist right then and there.

[RescueMom]

I loved the episode, and I agree with the sentiment that sometimes you don't need suspense to have a great episode.  I didn't care at all that they were telegraphing Drew's ouster; it was still wonderfully satisfying.  But something has been driving me crazy, and I can't figure out how to get at this from a Google search, so I'm going to see if anyone here remembers - I'm almost positive we had a similar episode in the last few seasons.  Where someone who desperately needed to be booted was, and we were clearly shown it was going to happen through the whole episode, and it ended with a very satisfying vote-out.  But I can't remember who it was!

[dolphincorn]

 

Not sure why people are gaga over Kelley. She didn't actually do anything except voice frustration about Drew.

 

People like super fans who can actually use their knowledge to win the game rather than super fans who take every chance to boast about how clever they are. Kelley was invisible before this episode. Now we know that she is a super fan who isn't a windbag, and we also know that rather than she chose to work behind the scenes with the other women to engineer Drew's ouster rather than confronting him about his plan. Her restraint was admirable and something you don't usually see on this show. That's why I like her.

[willpwr]

I'm not sure if I agree that Kelley didn't do anything, I think that what she didn't do probably helped her the most, which was that when she heard what Drew was saying she was smart enough to listen, read the room, she probably noticed, the same as Natalie that the men weren't on the same page and realized she wasn't in any danger so she didn't start any drama. In that kind of situation usually people make the mistake of starting a yelling match to defend themselves and then going to talk to everyone to try to flip the votes whereas she seemed to keep her cool pretty well and didn't need to rally the girls, she saw Natalie was already doing it so why should she paint a target on her back by doing what Drew said she was doing? I see Natalie as loud and brash whereas Kelley is more stealthy, they both probably had the same goal, they just had different ways of doing it. If I were on Survivor, I'd love to have a Natalie around to basically vocalize everything I wanted to, do the alliance's dirty work and draw attention to herself. I'm not saying that Natalie didn't do anything, she definitely did, but this is the same tribe that just last week was yelling at the other tribe for picking off the women, I'm pretty sure that they all had it in the back of their minds that the same thing could happen to them and they were already allied since the first episode so what Natalie probably did was just help hone in on which guy needed to go because from what I understood, the women were undecided between Jon and Drew until Natalie told them what Drew was saying. I think all the ladies did very well, though, they showed some serious solidarity and smarts so I'm going to say well played to all the women, not just Natalie or Kelley.

Edited October 17, 2014 by willpwr

[Special K]

 

Yup, my perception is my reality -  and Drew's delusion is his reality, but it isn't real to anyone else.

 

The ironic thing is that his perception that the women were going to gang up on him -- which wasn't actually true -- became the reality, through his own actions.

[FineWashables]

 

They are highly likely to hook each other, get tangled up in the fishing line, choke someone with the netting and possibly spear one another.

Now that's entertainment!  I'll make the popcorn!

[allthatglitters]

I think they were (or at least just Jon was) under the impression that the flint had fallen into the fire itself.  And it may have.  Natalie did find it fairly close to the edge of the pit and the old flint did appear either sandier and/or ashier than the new flint.  But what probably happened was it got buried in the sand or they (meaning Jon again) were standing on it while searching and Natalie just happened to uncover it when she sat down that day.

 

What I heard was that he thought he had "lost it".  Not that he thought it was in the fire. And if he thought it was in the ashes of the fire, why wouldn't he be searching even more in that area?  If they were standing on it while they searched and that's why they didn't find it then they are even more keystone cops than I thought. They all should have helped, getting down on their knees, and scouring the whole area, especially around the fire pit, IMO.

 

Anyways, I don't think I will ever be surprised by the haplessness of American survivor contestants. Season after season goes by without anyone (almost anyone) learning how to make a fire from scratch before going on the show. Also, something else that I would learn; how to make a simple animal snare or trap to catch small animals.  The advantage you'd give your team, especially if you didn't have fishing gear, in giving them steady protein would be invaluable.

[Special K]

There's something "off" about the whole flint-gate.

 

When Drew tries to barter with JP, he says that the "new" flint hadn't ever been struck -- it was completely unused and therefore tradeable.  So are we to believe that in all the time since they got the second flint they did not have to start a fire?   Did they keep a fire burning?  I'm confused by how they could have anything other than two used flints at their camp.

 

Of course, it was Drew making the statement so it was probably BS.