S21.E07: The Guy Who Wears Heels

[Tara Ariano]

The models test their acting abilities when they compete for a walk-on role on a scripted TV series. Later, a frozen photo shoot turns icy after hurtful remarks are overheard in the house.

[milkyaqua]

nevermind

Edited October 3, 2014 by milkyaqua

[AjaAja]

I think for once Tyra said exactly the right thing to someone.

[Fabricationary]

I guess Tyra wasn't happy with how the Will-Denzel conflict was resolved at the house, so she had to restage it at judging.  Maybe it was the lousy acoustics at the house or something.

[rustyspigot]

Holy Christmas. Denzel's Beard Weave turned into a glued on strip from some sort of waxing incident. Even Tyra acknowledged the Beard Weave needed to be left outside of judging in the future.

 

Mirjana and Denzel bring the class again.

 

I'd be hanging out with Shei in that Real World household.

 

And Tyra's wig looks to be making a run for it off her head to try to mate with Beard Weave. 

[NorthstarATL]

I found it interesting that an episode that featured two masculine seeming "models" almost coming to blows also included the Denzel/Will conflict. I was also surprised that Adam was such a bad actor, as i was hoping that getting a foot in the acting door would explain why a short older guy would pursue modeling. now I have no clue. However, I came away with a better idea of why so many CW shows contain pretty abysmal performances.

Edited October 6, 2014 by NorthstarATL

[weightyghost]

Was Denzel's stereotype of male models really all that accurate? Fashion designers, perhaps, but when I think 'male model stereotype" its more dumb pretty boy, than gay. He was also really not helping his case after saying 'nothing wrong with being gay! wearing heels! it's all good --- if Will wants to be a WOMAN about it and not talk, than that's his deal" 

 

i thought for sure Raelia was gone after Tyra randomly gave her a 4. She only goes that low to guarantee that person leaves. I'm not blind to the fact that reality show is often scripted/controlled, but now with them voting every week, it's very clear the people Tyra wants to keep around and I hate it. I wish there was some mystery left. 

[snakenax]

 

I was also surprised that Adam was such a bad actor, as i was hoping that getting a foot in the acting door would explain why a short older guy would pursue modeling. now I have no clue.

I didn't think he was too bad, having seen a fair amount of audition sides he ranges more towards above average in the bit we see of him(notable acting sides are mostly about proving you can speak clearly, portray emotion and actually remember your lines so they tend to be horrible scenes but have challenges in memorization, emoting and pronunciation).

 

So is it just going to be standard now that they can't afford to constantly rotate in new, interesting photographers and have to constantly use the same game over again?

Edited October 4, 2014 by snakenax

[anonymiss]

I don't know WHAT has gotten into me but I'm finally drinking the Adam is Hot Kool-Aid. I'm baffled/ashamed. But I think it's his default dumb as a doorknob expression mixed with his gorgeous physique and earnestness/vulnerability that makes me fantasize about tying him up and having my way with him.

 

Denzel does look like an actor and could easily slide into any stock "hot guy" role like on a daytime or nighttime soap.

 

I think for once Tyra said exactly the right thing to someone.

 

Amazingly, I liked all of what Tyra said in panel--both her frank smackdown of Denzel and her critiques. 

[CaliforniaLove]

Why did Matthew think it was a good idea to channel Daniel-San's final kick at the end of the Karate Kid for his photo?

Denzel & Marijuana are gross. Much like the CW challenge, they are gross together, and when I judge them individually. Denzel deserves a heel up the ass.

At the end Tyra looked like she was blind & trying to "see" what Kari looked like by feeling her face. At ease Ty Ty! Classy exit by the alien ice queen.

[waving feather]

Denzel & Marijuana are gross.

 

Marijuana has "promoted" to no rent from her previous level of low rent. She was batshit immature and crazy with the jealousy.

 

And Denzel, I judge people on what kind of friends they have and what they said is a kind of reflection on you.

[phoenix780]

I really enjoyed that episode.  Seriously.  And I'm sober. 

 

I thought Kelly was cool at the casting challenge and during judging, especially her half-ass attempt at stirring up drama.  Hell, I thought all judging was good (would've been great had they given Cari actual tips).

 

The drama seemed real and made most of them seem like decent people, imho..  Also, they have these little moments in the kitchen- before the red cups come out- where the contestants are chatting, and I kind of love those.  I think they have some people there I could genuinely like.  They just have to deal with...

 

Denzel.  His comment about Will's heels- whatever.  His comment about men in heels on a show featuring Miss J as a judge- stupid.  His constant need to refer to Will as a woman- irritating.  The fact that he'll sleep with an 18 year-old on television, days after meeting her, declare that he wouldn't find her attractive outside this environment, and then tell me he's "traditional"- bullshit.  That's what actually sets me over the top with him.  It's not cool to fuck with children like that, imho.  And I can't stand that kind of delusion.  You cannot be "traditional" and a ho, which is kind of what he's shown/declared himself to be (you can't call a girl that you're sleeping with your girlfriend unless you're going to marry her? the fuck is that?).  

 

Oh- and his friends will make fun of him for going on this show regardless of whether he gets beaten by Will or not.  He's on Top Model with a beard glued to his face- any good friend would mock the shit out of that. I'm curious what their reaction will be to this episode.  He kind of made them seem like homophobes...who are nonetheless oddly knowledgeable about high heels (after all, the "patent leather" would make it worse for them, right? meaning they have opinions about different kinds of heels). 

 

And they need to handle Mirjana.  I want to see ID, because I think she's more like 15.  She can leave anytime.

 

But yeah.  Besides them and their relationship nonsense I'm shocked at how old-school that felt to me.  ETA- thinking about it, it's not old-school ANTM.  It's middle period Real World, before the first Vegas.  Maybe around the Miami era.  That's what this episode was, and I'll take it.

Edited October 4, 2014 by phoenix780

[Guest]

I miss the times when the models wold be given a "teach" about acting and then they would have the challenge. Randomly telling them 'ok, you have to act now' doesn't seem to guarantee any improvement. Even the comments at judging are vague and on the lines of 'I don't like it, it just doesn't have that oomph.'  When Tyra tells Shia that she doesn't know what to do with her face, Shia should literally ask 'well, what should I do??'

[snakenax]

One thing I miss is when the judging panel would also be a mini-runway challenge. Like without that i'm not sure why Miss Jay is judging, it's pretty clear he's not exactly super versed in the photography side of the industry.

[leighdear]

Strangely, Adam seems to be redeeming himself a bit.  He & Will appear to get along fine, so maybe he has learned from his past.  He's still a knucklehead, but has a few decent qualities.

 

I thought Denzel's acting was ridiculous.  None of them could act their way out of a paper bag. 

 

I'm firmly behind Matthew and Will for the guys.  They both just seem to have "it" for me. 

[PityFree]

Adam reminds me of Mathew Mconahey's (sp?) Character in Dazed & Confused. I wonder if not being able to get a job because of his unfortunate frat incident is why he's on this show.

[Canada]

I can't decide what was worse: Denzel's homophobic statements, the sexist statements, the not-like-a-real-man-at-all gossiping, or the fact that he lied like a little bitch when people called him out on what he was saying.  Funny how he tried to get out of trouble by leaving out little bits of the conversation; you know, the ones that made him seem like the asshole that he is.  Jerk.  He and Marjana deserve each other.

 

Adam.... you seem to be calming down a bit now.  But you really can't complain that you were being portrayed as a stupid frat douche earlier in the season when you were, in fact, acting like a stupid frat douche. 

 

Is Raelia crazy tall?  She seemed to be towering over the guys standing in front of her at one point in the show.

[Primetimer]

The worst reality show couple since Gretchen and Slade continues their assault on our senses.

Read the story

[aradia22]

Whoa. Talk about unprofessional. Kelly, why would you talk about Mirjana and Denzel sleeping together in front of someone who could have been their future boss?

 

I thought Kari and Will did the best in the acting challenge but they were all atrocious so it was a matter of degrees of terribleness. They were the only two who had emotions on their faces and reacted to their partners. It was still no better than high school but at least there was something. Denzel winning was ridiculous. He was like a block of wood.

 

The way they edited the scene with Denzel and Keith, if Keith ever responded to Denzel's comments, his responses were cut out. I rewatched it to make sure.

 

Ugh, Denzel is an idiot. I wish the people voting on social media were watching the show because he just insulted women and gay men. Way to go, genius.

 

Where was Matt? I did not expect Adam to be part of the Will support system given the story that circulated about him in college. He severely downplayed it when he retold it to the group.

 

Too underwhelmed by all the photos this week to comment. Why aren't they better by now? They should be spending more time practicing in front of the mirror and less time stirring up drama in the house. 

[poppy-]

I did like that they kept the line about the beautiful multimillion dollar house having terrible acoustics.

[Branchop]

If Will had said something to the effect of "No straight guy will win this from me. I'm fabulous, and my friends would never let me live this down if I lose to him. Although he is delicious". People would have laughed and thought it was sassy. He needs to man up (honestly no pun intended at all). Own it be proud, walk in front of him in your 6" f*ck me heels. Please quit "oh pity me".

What Denzel said didn't bother me (not that I would ever think it, much less say it) - he's competitive, he even wants his "girlfriend" to go home so it's less competition. And Will at judging saying we haven't been able to talk was not true. Denzel tried to talk to him as soon as there was a problem, Will wouldn't have it. Denzel was also talking in confidence to another person, not expecting Will to overhear. Tried to right the wrong when he found out he inadvertently hurt Will. Who hasn't said something politically incorrect in private that they would not want made public?

Mariana is a nutcase...

[aradia22]

 

And Will at judging saying we haven't been able to talk was not true. Denzel tried to talk to him as soon as there was a problem, Will wouldn't have it.

My sense of it was that Will interpreted Denzel going after him as confrontational and maybe something for the cameras. That's not a big stretch with the atmosphere in the house being what it is. And yeah, while he wasn't super aggressive it's not like Denzel went up to him in the nicest way to have a chat. 

 

What Denzel said didn't bother me (not that I would ever think it, much less say it) - he's competitive, he even wants his "girlfriend" to go home so it's less competition.

I agree that the bit of the conversation that we heard that Will also heard is not that awful in the grand scheme of things. People being bullied/hazed/verbally assaulted have likely heard much worse. However, I don't think it's merely that Denzel is competitive. The editing is crazy so I can't tell when things are being said (e.g. if it's all one conversation cut up and spliced into different episodes) but Denzel seems to have rather distasteful attitudes and he's shared them throughout the season. As I said, I'm also suspicious about the way any responses Keith might have made to Denzel's comments were edited out. Also, trotting out that old chestnut about not agreeing with his choices but still being able to be friends or whatever he said confirmed that for me more than him saying 100 times that he doesn't have a problem with gay people.

[waving feather]

I agree that Will should not let Denzel's worthless opinions bother him. But it sounds like Will just came out of the closet recently so he might still be sensitive to such remarks that I believe Miss J would just laughed it off. Over time, hopefully Will will learn not to give a shit about worthless opinions from people.

Denzel and Mirjana deserve each other and I hope she continues to annoy the shit out of Denzel with her constant immaturity.

[Kromm]

Adam.... you seem to be calming down a bit now.  But you really can't complain that you were being portrayed as a stupid frat douche earlier in the season when you were, in fact, acting like a stupid frat douche. 

Not to mention that in the SAME episode he's complaining about being seen as a stupid frat douche, we hear about "stories" FROM HIM about how bad he was in the past as a stupid frat douche throwing some stupid frat douche party.

 

What annoyed me the most was the part of that where Adam was all like "you're going to hear about it anyway".  I rolled my eyes at the delusion of that--that Adam thinks on some level that anything he did as "the Frat King" has any real importance. Even if it was racist or sexist or anti-gay or whatever the hell it was, and made some national news cycle or some shit like that, most people won't retain it or pin it to one particular frat asshole over all of the other frat assholes. What these people do is irrelevant to our society, but Adam still clearly operates under some delusion that he and his way of life matters.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Kromm

[Kromm]

Denzel and Mirjana deserve each other and I hope she continues to annoy the shit out of Denzel with her constant immaturity.

Denzel at the least is getting some of his just punishment by being made to look like a fool made to go around with that lame ass beard.  Mirjana?  To see where she's coming from all you have to do is go to her twitter and see defenders giving her big "you go girls" and "deny the haters!" chants.  She's a joke, an entitled bitchy infant, ready made to go on reality TV and act like an asshole.

[kingshearte]

He was also really not helping his case after saying 'nothing wrong with being gay! wearing heels! it's all good --- if Will wants to be a WOMAN about it and not talk, than that's his deal" 

Worse than that. He said if Will wants to be a "female" about it, which is not only homophobic and misogynistic, but it also has a tinge of dehumanization.

 

But it sounds like Will just came out of the closet recently so he might still be sensitive to such remarks that I believe Miss J would just laughed it off. 

I don't know that he would have. Did you see his face during that discussion at panel? Miss J was pissed. I think he didn't say anything because he didn't trust himself to do so. I can't decide if I admire or rue his professionalism for actually giving Denzel a score based solely on his photo and not on Miss J's feelings about him as a person.

 

Ultimately, all I really have to say to Denzel is STFU. He gets less attractive every time he opens his mouth. Tyra's smackdown of him was amazing. Doubt he learns anything from it except to keep his comments to the confessional, but it was still amazing.

 

As for Adam, while he may have downplayed the frat party incident, if he really still thought that way, he could have just stayed in the sidelines during this whole thing. But he was right there supporting Will, to the point of rubbing his shoulders at one point. That certainly doesn't erase his actions in the past, but I think it does suggest that he has changed. I'm not sure that was an ideal moment to tell his story, either, but I really do think his intentions were good. I for one have more respect for an admitted former homophobe than for a current one who doesn't even see what an asshole he's being.

[weightyghost]

 

What annoyed me the most was the part of that where Adam was all like "you're going to hear about it anyway".  I rolled my eyes at the delusion of that-

 

Except we did hear about it. As soon as the cast was released, people dug up articles about it. I remember it being the only thing I heard about this season prior to the show airing. Much like Big Brother and Survivor, the internet wants to know just how much of an asshole you are before the show edits you into something else. 

[Mattipoo]

Mirjana continues to be low class and immature, and Denzel is a tool. Adam is rising in the ranks for me, even though he is still too old and too short to be a model. Will, Matthew and Lennox are my 3 favorites at the moment. I am guessing they will be the top 3 with Will and Matthew as the final 2, and Will winning it all while wearing 6 inch heels.

[lark37]

 

 

Will takes very good pictures, but he seems much too easily hurt to make it in the cutthroat world of modeling. The crying was a bit much for me.

If you're going to wear 6" f*ck me heels, you have to be able to take being a topic of conversation. People say all sorts of things behind other people's backs, so he should either not eavesdrop, or toughen up.

People make fun of other people, it's a fact of life.

 

I agree. While I think Denzel's comments were stupid, they were not made directly to Will, and if Will had such a hard time growing up in a conservative town in Texas, you would think he would have developed a thicker skin by now and be totally used to people talking about him. Tyra was right (definitely a sentence rarely written) about Denzel's attitude towards the LGBT community being a problem in the industry he's trying to be a part of though.  He needs to work on that attitude big time.  But, Will needs to stop with the sob stories about how rough it was for him growing up too.  Its not like he's the first openly gay contestant on ANTM or on TV in general.  I'm tired of hearing about it in every talking head - own who you are Will and move on.

 

Also, did Kari ever have a chance at all once she got that awful brassy blonde hair and brows?  Tyra completely did her in with that makeover. And, Mirjana is just gross!  I felt sorry for Raelia.  I didn't think her photo was that bad.

[Kromm]

I agree. While I think Denzel's comments were stupid, they were not made directly to Will, and if Will had such a hard time growing up in a conservative town in Texas, you would think he would have developed a thicker skin by now and be totally used to people talking about him. Tyra was right (definitely a sentence rarely written) about Denzel's attitude towards the LGBT community being a problem in the industry he's trying to be a part of though.  He needs to work on that attitude big time.  But, Will needs to stop with the sob stories about how rough it was for him growing up too.  Its not like he's the first openly gay contestant on ANTM or on TV in general.  I'm tired of hearing about it in every talking head - own who you are Will and move on.

It's not Will's responsibility to the world to grow a thicker skin though. Admittedly it would be for his own good, but being on Top Model is akin to a workplace, pretty much, so I think the same "hostile workplace" standards should apply. As far as I know, in most workplaces this exact situation wouldn't be tolerated.  The person in Denzel's position wouldn't usually be fired, but they'd definitely get a verbal warning--and that's basically what happened here (even if it was on TV in front of millions and not in private like would normally happen--then again his comment was made on camera too, and he knew it, even if he didn't know Will would also hear it sooner than broadcast time).

[Madding crowd]

Kelly Cutrone seems so awkward when she has to speak to the models. I really can't stand her, she is ugly inside and out. And of course she can't change her face, but she could choose to wear an attractive hairstyle and clothing. She continues to mope around with greasy hair and awful clothes and then takes it out on the models because they are pretty and she is not. 

 

Kari's looks were ruined and I was not surprised she went home.  I also never understand the benefit of telling them after the shoot what they should have done. The next shoot will be completely different so they can never learn enough to make a difference. It's obvious that Tyra chooses either the worst or best shot based on who she wants to go home. I adore Miss J, but she is useless in this cycle. I would love to see some runway instruction or on set instruction. Getting yelled at because you "aren't using your face right' doesn't really count.

[Kromm]

I also never understand the benefit of telling them after the shoot what they should have done. The next shoot will be completely different so they can never learn enough to make a difference. It's obvious that Tyra chooses either the worst or best shot based on who she wants to go home. I adore Miss J, but she is useless in this cycle. I would love to see some runway instruction or on set instruction. Getting yelled at because you "aren't using your face right' doesn't really count.

You mean bellowing made up words like "tooch" and "booch" at people isn't helping them later in the competition?  Shock!

[MyLisa]

nevermind

 

Hee, milkyaqua -- I don't know what your post originally said, but I think "nevermind" is probably the most succinct comment on this show that ever was...

[Surrealist]

Adam was too frat boy for me in the beginning, but slowly, I've been warming up to him.

 

I was happy that he brought up the past incident of using a homophobic slur against another man at a party (although the incident was more than just a slur). Not only that but he admitted the incident had affected his employment. I wasn't aware of that part of the scandal. I sense that Adam genuinely feels bad that he screwed up because it affected him long after the incident was over. Not to mention that it probably affected the victim long after as well. I like that he defended Will.

 

As for Adam, while he may have downplayed the frat party incident, if he really still thought that way, he could have just stayed in the sidelines during this whole thing. But he was right there supporting Will, to the point of rubbing his shoulders at one point. That certainly doesn't erase his actions in the past, but I think it does suggest that he has changed. I'm not sure that was an ideal moment to tell his story, either, but I really do think his intentions were good. I for one have more respect for an admitted former homophobe than for a current one who doesn't even see what an asshole he's being.

 

You said it better than I could have. Adam coming forward like that is a start, even if he didn't give the entire story. I would agree that it was an odd moment. Maybe he decided to tell it because (in his weird way) he wanted to come clean about how he used to be an asshole (like Denzel is) and since has learned the error of his ways. Then again, maybe I'm a sucker for the edit?  ;)

 

I feel guilty in saying this, but I was thrown off track when Keith mentioned that his mother is a lesbian and he's had many gay men mentor and look out for him. I was expecting him to take Denzel to task more for what he said.

 

Was Denzel's stereotype of male models really all that accurate? Fashion designers, perhaps, but when I think 'male model stereotype" its more dumb pretty boy, than gay.

 

You're right. His stereotype is wrong. Fashion designers and stylists, perhaps. Actually, I think most male models are straight, but they probably suffer the "dumb pretty boy" insult more than anything.

 

For once, Tyra didn't annoy me this episode. Her wigs though . . .

 

Mirjana can go home at any time. She's cute, but every time she opens her mouth, I'm embarrassed on her behalf. Not all 18 year olds are that dense.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Surrealist

[Talented Tenth]

Will takes very good pictures, but he seems much too easily hurt to make it in the cutthroat world of modeling. The crying was a bit much for me.

If you're going to wear 6" f*ck me heels, you have to be able to take being a topic of conversation. People say all sorts of things behind other people's backs, so he should either not eavesdrop, or toughen up.

People make fun of other people, it's a fact of life. I don't think Denzel has a chance after this, but I don't think he was destined to win, anyway.

Adam is finally calming down, and it makes him more attractive. I think a male may win this time, just because it would be a first.

 

It's not Will's fault that Denzel was talking loud enough so that he was overheard bashing Will and making anti-gay statements.  A lot of people's feelings can be hurt when people make comments that are anti-them.  Denzel isn't a stranger to Will.  They may have had some sort of acquaintanceship which made the comments worse.  Being upset over degrading comments made by someone Will knows doesn't mean he's "easily" hurt and can't make it.  The fashion world is filled with gays, so I don't think Will expected those types of comments to be made.  I don't even understand why Denzel or anyone who has negative views towards fem men and/or gays would even aspire to get in the industry.

 

If Will had said something to the effect of "No straight guy will win this from me. I'm fabulous, and my friends would never let me live this down if I lose to him. Although he is delicious". People would have laughed and thought it was sassy. He needs to man up (honestly no pun intended at all). Own it be proud, walk in front of him in your 6" f*ck me heels. Please quit "oh pity me".

What Denzel said didn't bother me (not that I would ever think it, much less say it) - he's competitive, he even wants his "girlfriend" to go home so it's less competition. And Will at judging saying we haven't been able to talk was not true. Denzel tried to talk to him as soon as there was a problem, Will wouldn't have it. Denzel was also talking in confidence to another person, not expecting Will to overhear. Tried to right the wrong when he found out he inadvertently hurt Will. Who hasn't said something politically incorrect in private that they would not want made public?

Mariana is a nutcase...

 

None of us control our feelings -- we can only control our reactions.  Will doesn't need to "man up" because someone degraded him and it hurt.  What Denzel said definitely bothered me because it was sexist and anti-gay which are wrong to me.  Being competitive doesn't mean he has to be a douche and make bigoted comments.  What Denzel didn't expect doesn't change the fact that Will heard him.  Besides being filmed for a show that airs on national television and being in a house with several other people, if he really wanted something to be in confidence he should have made sure no one else could ever hear what he was saying.  Sure, I've made politically incorrect comments but they aren't made at work, in public, on national television or within earshot of people who can be offended by them.

[Surrealist]

I don't even understand why Denzel or anyone who has negative views towards fem men and/or gays would even aspire to get in the industry.

 

 

 

 

I don't understand it either. It's an unconventional industry. I don't understand why anyone who is super conservative, super religious, or is a bigot would want to work in the fashion industry.

 

I mention religion because of the openly Christian contestants who go on this show and refuse to pose nude or in bikinis. I don't think they quite understand how the industry works. The fashion industry is not going to conform to their religious or spiritual beliefs.

[DrivingSideways]

Denzel's mistake in my eyes was getting defensive and ratcheting up his idiocy after he saw he offended Will (and everyone else in the house).  It was like he wanted to antagonize Will by calling him a woman in a sneering manner.  Anybody is capable of saying something offensive and should be allowed to atone for their behavior, but Denzel just wanted to make Will hurt.  Denzel deserves Mirjana, because she seems like the crazy bitch who will burn all your shit or key your car when you do her wrong.  I hope there is a double elimination next week for them.

 

Tyra won me over during panel, but Denzel just did got it.  I know there are some black people who don't like to equate the civil rights era with gay rights but he missed the whole point.  

 

What is going to happen next week?  It looks like some serious drama is about to go down!  And did this show get moved to Friday permanently?

[belligerent]

Denzel is one of those people that looks like he'd be attractive and then he opens his mouth and totally ruins it.  Just shut up and wear your beard weave.  I don't understand why your friends will mock you if you're beaten in a modeling competition by a guy who wears heels if he legitimately does a better job than you do, but NOT because you're wearing a dead hamster on your face or sleeping with a barely-legal teen girl with a boyfriend but who is obviously a lesbian because she made out with a girl once?  Also it would be awesome if Denzel would quit using "woman" as an insult, or really it would be awesome if he would just go home.

 

I still think Adam is a douche but I guess at least he's slightly less of a douche in some aspects than Denzel is.  My favorite moment in this episode is when he's rubbing Will's shoulders, because of the way the shot's framed, he just looks so tiny doing it, like he has to reach up sooooo faaaaaar...  (granted, Will is super tall and he is super short, but I thought it was hilarious-looking) 

[NorthstarATL]

Tyra won me over during panel, but Denzel just did got it.  I know there are some black people who don't like to equate the civil rights era with gay rights but he missed the whole point.  

 

 

Tyra was quite right in pointing out that, should Denzel desire a career  as a model, he will be working for people who are either gay or sensitive to gay issues, and that he'd best keep his opinions to himself. What she DIDN'T mention, as it would defeat the agenda of her entire 'competition' is that Denzel would never IRL be competing with Will for a gig.Casting would distinguish them by body type, height, and color, and the last thing that would come into play would be sexual orientation. if Denzel is so gosh-darned competitive, he ought to go find a competition in which the outcome is objective; not this one, where it is all subjective, and doesn't even try to mask it by explaining away the voting process.

[ShadowDenizen]

Oh, this show. THIS SHOW!

 

I was literally yelling at my TV this episode.

 

As a gay man myself (though considerably older than WIll), I totally empathized with him; it's tough feeling totally ill at ease with yourself, and then finally gathering the guts to come out to family and friends. Then, to go on a show where he should be able to finally be himself and feel included, and face more bullshit bigotry?  That's GOT to suck. I was SO glad that the incident was not white-washed and was addressed at judging. (Though I think Denzel should have actively gotten the boot; why a physical confrontation judged differently than workplace harassment? BOTH should be a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy.)

 

And, on that note? STFU, Denzel. You and your pathetic-ass beard-weave (and they're beating THAT horse into the ground, aren't they?) can get the hell off my TV screen at any time.  And take your skank-ass, immature, jealous "Girlfriend" (or whatver you're calling her) with you. 

 

Mirjana has just been downgraded from "Low-Class" to "No-Class"; I was so gald that Raelia called her our on her BS antics!

 

Where was Matthew during the "Everyone makes WIll feel better" sequence? I would have though he'd be the first one there to help out his friend...

[Egg]

I wish that Denzel understood that what he said about the high heels was nowhere near the most offensive thing he said. Instead, it was the stuff about Will not being a real man, about gay models creating a negative stereotype for male models, and treating "gay" and "female" as an insult. I'm glad he got called out, and I'm glad how strongly Tyra was willing to do it, but I just wish he understood how offensive that other stuff was.

 

Also, I wish he understood that when you bash someone, you're creating an unsafe space for them, and thus making it even more difficult for that person to confront you. So it wasn't that Will was being "female" about it (or maybe he was? Obviously that's a troubling accusation he made for many reasons), it was that he created a hostile environment in which responding to the things he said was made extra difficult.

 

Lastly, I don't think Denzel is that attractive. I mean, good-looking enough, but I really never got him.

[Wootini]

Every once in a while, Tyra can come across as reasonable and well-spoken. Thank goodness she was on her medication for this judging! ;-)

 

I did find it a bit odd that Will wasn't willing to discuss the conflict with Denzel when he tried to talk to him that night, but I chalked it up to it being in the heat of the moment and feeling attacked and not wanting to be attacked further. And I'm sure production appreciated that because it meant they could bring it up at judging and really give Tyra her moment.

 

It was nice of Adam to try and spin his homophobic gay-bashing frat antics, and I actually do think he learned his lesson after it was reported and went all over the internet. It's just a shame that he was clearly drunk as a skunk when he tried to comfort Will so he could barely get the words out. His eyes are bloodshot about 75% of the time on this show. It's a little frightening.

 

Oh, and there was a photo shoot, wasn't there? Yeah, um. Okay.

 

Shame that the most interesting things to talk about regarding this show now are the inter-personal conflicts with the models instead of the actual challenges and photo shoots… :-/

[ShadowDenizen]

That's becuase the photo-shoots/challenges have become increasingly low-rent and cheap/cheesey. (The "SpyderByte": and "Frozen" shoot seemed especially low-rent, though the hair-extension shoot was by far the WORST.)

 

I miss the days of having ACTUAL photo-shoots, where the models were given actual intstruction/commentary to help them improve their perfromance, rather than just being screeched at and given abritrary directions.

 

I liked that Miss J. was able to contain herself for the judging, and not leap across the room and kick the living shit out of Denzel (Which you KNOW she was contemplating!)

 

As an aside, was it my imaginaton, or was Yu Tsai the photographer who got the Nick Jonas "Flaunt" magazine spread that went viral last week? If so, I take back every bad thing I said about his screechy lttle self, and am now insanely jealous....

Edited October 6, 2014 by ShadowDenizen

[40Love]

What Denzel said didn't bother me (not that I would ever think it, much less say it) - he's competitive, he even wants his "girlfriend" to go home so it's less competition. And Will at judging saying we haven't been able to talk was not true. Denzel tried to talk to him as soon as there was a problem, Will wouldn't have it. Denzel was also talking in confidence to another person, not expecting Will to overhear. Tried to right the wrong when he found out he inadvertently hurt Will. Who hasn't said something politically incorrect in private that they would not want made public?

 

As a black woman I was very bothered by Denzel's remarks. If one of the white contestants had said: 

 

"I think Denzel and Keith are stupid and inferior to me because they're black. I don't mind losing, but I would really hate to lose to stupid, inferior low-lifes like them. I need to represent for all the intelligent, superior white men out. What would all my white friends say if I lost to one of them?" 

 

And then after it gets back to the white contestant that Denzel is upset about those remarks, that white contestant followed up with: 

 

"Hey, my opinion of you doesn't mean I don't like you and that we can't still be friends. I'm not being racist. You're being too damn sensitive. We can talk about this like grown-ups... but if you just want to be stupid and use that tired old argument about racism and throw out the race-card then I hope it upsets you enough to send you home.. proving my point that you are too stupid and inferior to represent ANTM! Just sayin' "

 

IMO Denzel's statements are not about his healthy competitive spirit. It's about prejudice and intolerance... And the fact that Will heard the conversation by accident should not matter one bit; that he wasn't meant to hear it does not magically take away the sting or make him immune to hateful words.

 

I'm glad Tyra spoke up and tried to enlighten Denzel. Sadly, I don't think her words had much impact on the "traditional" young man who thinks it's a good idea to fool around with a tactless, drama-filled, silly, immature 18 year old "woman"? He was just pretending to agree with Tyra to win points with her. His friends will likely pat him on the back when he gets home. And he will gladly high-five them for their support. (heavy sigh).

 

I don't understand it either. It's an unconventional industry. I don't understand why anyone who is super conservative, super religious, or is a bigot would want to work in the fashion industry.

 

 

IMO it's because his conceit and super big ego override his prejudices. He thinks he's the next big supermodel/actor and that he will single-handily save the industry and other straight models from the "stigma" of being called gay. And he'll do it with the sheer power of his extreme manly maleness; Umm, that and his very masculine rash-inducing front lace weave beard. ; ) 

[Wootini]

As an aside, was it my imaginaton, or was Yu Tsai the photographer who got the Nick Jonas "Flaunt" magazine spread that went viral last week? If so, I take back every bad thing I said about his screechy lttle self, and am now insanely jealous....

 

Yep. I saw his name attached to that shoot… Jealous doesn't even BEGIN to cover it! :-D

[joanne3482]

Denzel was also talking in confidence to another person, not expecting Will to overhear. Tried to right the wrong when he found out he inadvertently hurt Will. Who hasn't said something politically incorrect in private that they would not want made public?

 

The "in confidence" is in a room with an open door where many other people live, pass through, etc. My private home isn't being recorded 24/7 to be played on national television. There is no "in confidence" on "reality" TV. Think whatever you want to think. Say it out loud and expect to be heard. 

 

And the fact that Will heard the conversation by accident should not matter one bit; that he wasn't meant to hear it does not magically take away the sting or make him immune to hateful words.

 

He overheard it by accident during the taping. He could have heard them 3 months (or however may months later) when the editing monkeys included them in this episode (which it is likely they would have). Either way Will was going to end up hearing the comments. I guess if anything, I'm glad he heard them now and was able to recognize the awfulness that is Denzel than if it came out later and they had developed a friendship over the series and Will looked a fool. 

[leighdear]

Denzel deserves Mirjana, because she seems like the crazy bitch who will burn all your shit or key your car when you do her wrong.

I had Carrie Underwood's song "Before He Cheats" running in my mind after I read this.  Specifically this verse.... *LOL*

 

I dug my key into the side

Of his pretty little souped-up four-wheel drive

Carved my name into his leather seats

I took a Louisville slugger to both head lights

I slashed a hole in all four tires

Maybe next time he'll think before he cheats

 

 

was Yu Tsai the photographer who got the Nick Jonas "Flaunt" magazine spread that went viral last week?

You betcha!  TMZ showed the closeups and Yu's names was VERY prominently featured.  I'll bet he gets more noteriety for those shots than anything from this show. 

Edited October 6, 2014 by leighdear

[rho]

As an aside, was it my imaginaton, or was Yu Tsai the photographer who got the Nick Jonas "Flaunt" magazine spread that went viral last week? If so, I take back every bad thing I said about his screechy lttle self, and am now insanely jealous....

 

 

Yep. I saw his name attached to that shoot… Jealous doesn't even BEGIN to cover it! :-D

 

Are those puns intentional?

Edited October 7, 2014 by rho

[tinapova]

How tall is Mirjana or whatever her name is? In her photo she looked barely tall enough to model for the children's section of the Sears catalog. You also couldn't see her face at all. I really thought it was horrible and couldn't believe it didn't get worse scores than it did.

[milkyaqua]

Okay, see because the first time I saw the Nick Jonas pics, I just laughed.  I found the whole thing funny which is not what the intention was, I'm sure.