S21.E07: The Guy Who Wears Heels

[After7Only]

I'll take the unpopular opinion here and say that I still like Denzel.  What he said and his attitude towards Will is 100% wrong, but it's really not an uncommon attitude for men his age.  Doesn't make it right at all, but I rather just chalk it up to being young and dumb than label him a horrible person.  I also think this will be a learning experience for him, and for others who watched the show.   

[Egg]

I don't think it was a learning experience for him. He has since told The Advocate that he was taken out of context, which is pretty much blame-your-lying-eyes 101.

 

Also, I never liked Denzel. Even before this episode, he's shown himself to be a person with archaic, disgusting views about gay people and especially women. He, along with Keith and Mirjana, were the ones berating Matthew for having a more fluid sexuality. He's also the one who talks about Mirjana being "his woman" and Kari being "Keith's woman," and has spoken about how Mirjana's behavior reflects on him. I think he is the kind of person who sees women as an accessory to men, which is not okay whether you're 3, 23, or 43. He can lose immediately, please.

[leighdear]

I think most guys like Denzel think modeling is an easy way to make loads of money, wear cool clothes and be surrounded by young, hot women all day long.  They have no real concept of the fashion industry and the people involved in getting the clothing onto the magazine pages and in people's closets.  All glamour and no real work.

[Kromm]

I'll take the unpopular opinion here and say that I still like Denzel.  What he said and his attitude towards Will is 100% wrong, but it's really not an uncommon attitude for men his age.  Doesn't make it right at all, but I rather just chalk it up to being young and dumb than label him a horrible person.  I also think this will be a learning experience for him, and for others who watched the show.

It doesn't have to make him a horrible person to make him intolerable to be around though. "Young and dumb" only really works as a defense looking back and going forward. It's the mea culpa someone can use later, after they've fixed themselves. But in the middle of the young dumbness? It doesn't help in the least. You still want to kick them in the head, and probably have the moral high ground to do so.

[EvilApplesauce]

I think Adam's getting the winner's edit.

 

Concerning this episode, Denzel's impersonation of Denzel (Washington) cracked me up, but otherwise he can go. He wasn't the least bit sorry about making Will feel ostracized, he could have offered an apology or tried to clear things up after they had both cooled down, but he never did. As others have pointed out, Denzel's using an 18-year-old to masturbate his ego, he's sexist, homophobic, and I think he has a mean streak that he masks with a humorous persona (it always comes out in photo shoots when Yu Tsai isn't singing Denzel's praises). I can see why no one in the house seems to like Denzel or Mirjana especially after the latest episode. Even Kari and Keith appear to be tolerating Denzel and Mirjana's "friendship" at times.

 

That said, Keith doesn't get a pass from me just because his mother's a lesbian. Keith reminded me of a low point in this past season of Big Brother, where certain houseguests sat around and listened to Ariana Grande's douchebag brother talk about raping a virgin in the house. They may have expressed discomfort, but no one shut the conversation down or walked out on Frankie - by sticking around, a lot of viewers lumped those houseguests in the same moral company with Frankie. Keith sat there idly (if editing can be trusted) and judging by how comfortably Denzel was speaking his bigoted views, it seems to me that Keith gave Denzel no reason to believe that he might be uncomfortable or offended by the conversation. So confessing to the producers about his lesbian mom and gay mentors should mean what? "I'm not a racist, my best friend is black?" FOH. I hated it when Derrick (Big Brother) did one thing on camera and then lied to the viewing audience about his behavior in the Diary Room. I also hate that Keith thinks he can be filmed chilling with the house homophobe (on more than 1 occasion, if we count the Matthew attack), and then lie to the viewing audience about his personality in the talking heads. Keith also wore his sexist hat this episode, practically bouncing and giggling in his seat while Raelia and Mirjana went at it - I didn't see him so giddy when Romeo came for Adam. Yeah, the more I type about this guy Keith, the less I like him. Dogs of a feather flock together.

 

I noticed that when Kari was eliminated, she went straight to hug Will(?) and left Keith scrambling for his chance to say goodbye. I don't think she was ever as into him as he was into her, and GOOD. Girl go get rid of that weave, dye your hair back to Human #104, and get a man on your level. You can do worlds better than Keith and company. (Unfortunately I don't see her doing much in fashion, but she has a future in some other industry!)

 

I forgot that Matthew was part of the show this episode, and I don't like that. Denzel and Mirjana take up so much air time that we don't get to learn anything about the other contestants. Hate it. I'm interested in Shei, Matthew, Will, Raelia, Adam, Lennox ... basically anyone not Denzel Washington, Marijuana, or Keith Beckford. Give me that, at least, since this show stopped being about legitimate photo shoots after cycle 3.

 

Wasn't the ice theme shoot already done in Cycle 6, right down to the ice props?! Reduce, reuse, recycle!

[Talented Tenth]

Keith isn't Denzel's keeper and he isn't responsible for what Denzel says.  He already said he didn't condone it.

[After7Only]

It doesn't have to make him a horrible person to make him intolerable to be around though. "Young and dumb" only really works as a defense looking back and going forward. It's the mea culpa someone can use later, after they've fixed themselves. But in the middle of the young dumbness? It doesn't help in the least. You still want to kick them in the head, and probably have the moral high ground to do so.

"Young and dumb" is my description of him not Denzel's. Otherwise I do agree with your statement. In that moment I'd like to kick him in the head. But I also realize that I don't need to continue to kick him over and over for the same offense. We've all been there at that age and said/done things that could be considered bigoted, racist, sexist, etc. isolated, edited, and yes, maybe out of context statements may not reflect the entirety of his character.

Plus this is Top Model, I'm predicting a redemption arc in the next few episodes.

[Talented Tenth]

I think there's a difference between having bigotry in one's heart, making bigoted comments out of ignorance and being smart enough to keep bigoted comment strictly within earshot of those who won't be offended.  No, we all haven't been at Denzel's age and have said things that could be considered bigoted, racist, sexist, etc.  I candidly discuss hot button issues with friends and family that I wouldn't discuss in mixed company, but I can truly say I am not a bigot.  I can say that I've made jokes that are not in mixed company, but I do not truly feel superior to anyone nor do I condone or engage in discrimination.  Denzel's comments were not jokes -- he was making bigoted comments that were offensive and he still did not show any remorse once Will was impacted by his comments.  Denzel was being a douche.  Perhaps he will change one day, and perhaps he won't, but as of that taping, he was a bigot.  I will not sweep his comments under the rug as being "young and dumb".  I've never been that "dumb".  If Denzel were in a position of power over others, he would be discriminatory.  That's more than being "dumb".

[After7Only]

I think there's a difference between having bigotry in one's heart, making bigoted comments out of ignorance and being smart enough to keep bigoted comment strictly within earshot of those who won't be offended. No, we all haven't been at Denzel's age and have said things that could be considered bigoted, racist, sexist, etc. I candidly discuss hot button issues with friends and family that I wouldn't discuss in mixed company, but I can truly say I am not a bigot. I can say that I've made jokes that are not in mixed company, but I do not truly feel superior to anyone nor do I condone or engage in discrimination.

 

I think there's a difference between having bigotry in one's heart, making bigoted comments out of ignorance and being smart enough to keep bigoted comment strictly within earshot of those who won't be offended.  No, we all haven't been at Denzel's age and have said things that could be considered bigoted, racist, sexist, etc.  I candidly discuss hot button issues with friends and family that I wouldn't discuss in mixed company, but I can truly say I am not a bigot.  I can say that I've made jokes that are not in mixed company, but I do not truly feel superior to anyone nor do I condone or engage in discrimination.  Denzel's comments were not jokes -- he was making bigoted comments that were offensive and he still did not show any remorse once Will was impacted by his comments.  Denzel was being a douche.  Perhaps he will change one day, and perhaps he won't, but as of that taping, he was a bigot.  I will not sweep his comments under the rug as being "young and dumb".  I've never been that "dumb".  If Denzel were in a position of power over others, he would be discriminatory.  That's more than being "dumb".

 

What you just described as telling jokes while not in mixed company is basically what happened to Denzel though.  Would the/Should a member of whatever group you made a joke about be offended if they walked in and overheard the joke?   Denzel was in another room having a one on one conversation with someone, and Will unfortunately walked in. 

[Kromm]

What you just described as telling jokes while not in mixed company is basically what happened to Denzel though.  Would the/Should a member of whatever group you made a joke about be offended if they walked in and overheard the joke?   Denzel was in another room having a one on one conversation with someone, and Will unfortunately walked in.

But that's not how hostile workplace arguments work. Denzel was not in a place where there should have been any real assumption of privacy, he was in fact in a mutual place of employment (even if it looks like a house, that's what it is) and also the person he was making the comments to is the equivalent of Will's co-worker.

To top it all off, there was a camera there. Filming everything. That's the nail in the coffin for any idea that Denzel had any right to expect privacy, or any true ability to believe that Will wouldn't learn what he was saying at some point.

[leighdear]

Denzel is a 23 year-old college graduate that had already booked modelling assignments before coming on this show.  I don't think he qualifies as either young or dumb anymore. He has made deliberate choices in his words and actions.  

 

And unless you're locked in the bathroom with your drawers around your ankles, you get NO privacy from filming in these houses.  Anything and everything is fair game for the cameras, because THAT is what you sign up for.  

[Oholibamah]

I wasn't particularly annoyed by what Denzel said in the bedroom with Keith, which is why I'm not ready to lump Keith in with Denzel. It was narrowminded and silly, but it sounded like your garden variety douchebag locker room bullshit. Was Will's reaction justified? Absolutely. He has interacted with this person on a personal level and has a history of being judged for his sexuality. But I wasn't quite ready to rake Denzel over the coals for saying what a very large amount of straight men might be thinking in his situation.

 

That said, Denzel's reaction to the situation afterward was absolutely disgusting. He was aggressively confrontational, insensitive to Will's feelings, and bigoted toward both women and gay men by categorizing these groups as "cowardly" and "passive aggressive". Even after he had things explained to him he seemed unwilling to reevaluate his stance on HeelsGate.

 

Add in his treatment of Mirjana and I am done with him. Who'da thunk Adam would somehow avoid the bottom spot this cycle?

 

This cycle seems to have a nucleus of decent human beings that I would want to be friends with (Raelia, Will, Lenox, Shei, Matthew), alongside a bunch of gross side characters (Adam, Romeo) and Prom Couples (Denzel/Mirjana, Keith/Kari). I am really hoping for a F4 of Will, Lenox, Shei and Matthew, but I am thinking some combo of Keith, Denzel, Mirjana and Adam may sneak in there. Ick.

[Talented Tenth]

What you just described as telling jokes while not in mixed company is basically what happened to Denzel though.  Would the/Should a member of whatever group you made a joke about be offended if they walked in and overheard the joke?   Denzel was in another room having a one on one conversation with someone, and Will unfortunately walked in. 

 

It can't be basically what happened.  Denzel was not joking and he made bigoted comments.  "Suzie" might tell a friend that "Jan" is wearing a dress that's not flattering.  Jan could overhear and get offended.  That doesn't mean that Suzie and Denzel's situations are the same.  The bigotry is what people have a problem with when it comes to Denzel.

[AjaAja]

I can't decide what was worse: Denzel's homophobic statements, the sexist statements, the not-like-a-real-man-at-all gossiping, or the fact that he lied like a little bitch when people called him out on what he was saying.

I had actually been wondering if anyone else had caught on to the sexist comments he made. Anyway, I think in more recent news, he's trying to pin everything on editing and saying it was taken out of context. The problem is between the homophobic comments from the incident itself, the misogynist comments in the interviews (which I believe are done a bit after the incidents themselves), the fact that this whole thing managed to linger on all the way to panel (showing a lack of trying to resolve any 'misunderstanding' if we even give Denzel the benefit of the doubt), indications of latent homophobic attitudes from previous episodes, and the lack of remorse or ownership in the present, it doesn't add up to this being one of those blame it purely editing situations.

 

It is not unusual for any of us to have latent prejudice attitudes that we ourselves are not even conscious of and there is always that chance that they may come out when we are stressed or vulnerable without our even realizing. What makes the difference in my opinion is when a person is able to admit the incident happened, own up to it, and take the necessary steps to address it. The next thing I'm going to say is a bit on the snide side but I'm going to say it anyway: I'm sorry to Mr. Denzel that I'm just a woman but that is how I handle my business. And seriously, if a situation really is just a misunderstanding, even better, I could simply approach the person and tell them that 'when I made the comments, I did not realize what I said could be interpreted in that way and I apologize if I offended the you. This is what I really meant...' So like I mentioned earlier, had this been a misunderstanding and Denzel actually made a real effort to resolve it, it wouldn't have had to even come up at panel in the first place; taking the 'that's not what I said so shut-up and listen to what I have to say so that I can save face from this debacle you've caused with your histrionics over nothing because I did absolutely nothing wrong' approach is not what I consider making a real effort to resolve it but maybe that's just me.

 

 

Where was Matt? I did not expect Adam to be part of the Will support system given the story that circulated about him in college. He severely downplayed it when he retold it to the group.

 

This is something I was curious about as well. In the whole reality tv scheme of things, it seems to me that it is possible that the viewers over-played how close they really are. The fact is that this is the time where a 'true' 'friend' would be expected to be by one's side. It makes no sense for there to be nothing there - even for the sake of continuity, you would expect the editors to edit in a little something-something if there was anything remotely usable. In my opinion, the fact that Adam is there and Matthew is not shows that we may not know some of these people as well as we may think we do. Because things are being packed into something like 23 or so episodes, each of which is probably less than 45 minutes of content long, it's easy for the audience to make more or less out of something that happens early on because we're aren't seeing all the boring everyday filler which is quite important factor in the development of a relationship (not so much for a relationship like Denzel and Mirjarna but very much so for a close friendship unless there is some serious life-changing experience or trauma that the two people share (I won't say it's impossible but I do highly doubt that exists between Matthew and Will)). What people think of each other and what fascinations they may develop during the initial stages of getting settled in a new environment with new people rarely says much about the course relationships will take in the long run when the dust settles; there are plenty of times when the people I've ended up getting along the most with by the end were completely different from the those I may have been initially drawn to.

 

Another layer of complication of course is that if this relationship benefits either of the two parties and their ability to draw an audience, you could expect that the people on Matthew's side or Will's side will purposely play it up because they are in the business of projecting an image and wanting to draw in more people. I'd say even on ANTM's part, Matthew/Will probably provides some good publicity from the viewers in general and probably more exposure with relevant audiences so producers would have every reason to want to play it up as well; Plus, it makes for another opportunity for Tyra to capitalize on.

 

If you notice, there is a greater tendency to see Matthew hanging out with Kari or even Lenox at the moment and Will to be hanging out with Raelia (who happens to also be the one he confided in first after the incident).

 

Perhaps, it is just I but I tend to take a healthy dose of skepticism when dealing with a stranger who is a normal person and a huge dose of skepticism when I am dealing with a celebrity.

[milkyaqua]

Where was Matt?

 

According to Will's recap, he was asleep.

[LennieBriscoe]

I find Kelly Cutrone unattractive on many levels. But deliberately looking slatternly is at the top.

 

Adam, IMO, had the best acting assignment, particularly with his final line.

 

Mirjana isn't even cute, let alone model-worthy, again IMO.

 

Tyra's make-unders  continue to baffle me.