S29.E02: Method To This Madness

[Superpole2000]

My two favourite moments:

1. PROBST! I loved how spiteful he was with the flint bartering. It was so over the top that it was comical. Kick them again Probst! If you lose your flint then you deserve all of that high horse spiteful commentary.

2. "Let's go Josh!"..."It's Reed that's on our team."

 

Other than that, this season is boring me. I hate the blood/water gimmick because it monopolizes the editing and gameplay focus/narrative. I feel like it is being shoved down our throats, with every challenge being contrived to be a family war.

[Nihilum]

I kept waiting for one of the firefighters to say, "Jeff, this isn't Fahrenheit 451, I don't start fires, I put them out."

 

Does John Rocker get some credit for encountering a gay man, an african american man, and a woman and only saying something offensive to one of those groups. 2 out of 3 isn't bad for him!

[Wandering Snark]

 

John Rocker encounters a gay man, an african american man, and a woman.

Annnd ... punchline. Heh

[bluebonnet]

I'm actually sort of curious how likely it would be that a firefighter wouldn't be able to start a fire without flint.  Sure, they put out fires, but they also have to do things like starting controlled burns as part of their firefighting efforts.  I can wave that away with them having matches, lighters, torches, whatever to start a fire.  But still, the idea that a firefighter doesn't have any sort of training in starting a fire from scratch - even if it's just part of basic survival skills - seems bizarre to me.  It would be like a plumber not knowing how to clog a pipe.  

[millennium]

Minority here, but I didn't like Val and I don't like her husband.  His entire persona thus far has been an almost hysterical "protect the wife", and now that she's gone, I think he's going to go postal.  He seems to hold a lot of aggression right below the surface. 

 

 

I decided last week that Jeremy's a dick.  Crying one minute, all swagger the next.   Now, apparently, he's going to use Rocker's record of racism to prejudice people against him (without appreciating the hypocrisy).   I'm glad his wife was voted out.  Didn't like her.   It was like she got it in her head that she was a target, then went out and made sure people saw her as one.  Two idols.  Why not six, lady?

 

I had to laugh when Josh started comparing the tribe dynamic to a Broadway musical.   For a guy who gets irked about stereotypes ... LOL.

 

Shut up, crying twinnie.   Idiot.

Edited October 2, 2014 by millennium

[Nashville]

So everybody knows who Rocker is.  Good.  Sucks he found that idol.  

So now the image in my imagination which gives me hope is that of Rocker stomping angrily away from TC with a snuffed torch, and an unplayed Immunity Idol in his pocket - enjoy the souvenir, 'RoidRocker!

[ShadowSixx]

I thought Rocker said that he's going to wear the HII with pride? He put it around his neck, I was expecting him to strut around with it on. I'm just hoping the rest just pulls him into a false sense of security and just blindsides him when he thinks that they're voting for someone else. Knowing this bunch they'll just make it too obvious he's on the chopping block.

Who said he feels or be like J'Tia? Don't ever say that, that's one ticket to being voted out lol.

[Wings]

This show needs to be 90 minutes.  We are missing a lot.  Baylor being a target from day one remains a mystery. 

 

I never liked Val and glad to see her gone. She came in with a chip on her shoulder and was foolish to be combative at TC, especially given the fact she had no idol!  And I will add, bad strategy to have faked that she did.  Way too early to pull that off.  And another perk for us, Jeremy will shut up. 

 

I hope Natalie sticks around; I like her.  I expected more of a scene when she discovered her twin was gone given Jeff's interview comment.  A few tears, so what.

 

Josh is my favorite and someone I can root for.  When we see more of the other team, there may be others who stand out, as well.  

 

The editing is lousy.  No way did production give John a heads up to find that idol, we just didn't see the full scope of his hunting for it.  

 

The angst over "the loved ones" is already annoying.  Just play the game, no one is going to end up with their partners in the end.  Play to win, for fuck sake.   

Edited October 2, 2014 by wings707

[jzygayle]

I initially liked Val; she seemed to take the Exile Island thing well, kept the idol information close to her vest. Seemed like she knew the game pretty well.

But she seems also to have fully embraced the idea that "going to EI means missing out on vital alliance making time"--which is nuts. And from there on out, her actions seemed to be self-fulfilling prophecy, mixed with a lot of self-unaware tone deafness. Avd then this week, way too aggressive play considering her lack of an idol, an alliance, and any sight of the merge (aka early days in the game). By the end, I wasn't surprised to see her go, nor particularly disappointed.

Plus I'm holding a big grudge that she didn't beat Rocker to the idol.

Speaking of which, is it just me, or have the producers actually put the idol in a non-obvious to anyone without a clue location?

[NutMeg]

Sorry to see Val go, but she brought it on herself - the pretending to have 2 idols is bad enough, but to pretend to a guy that just spent enough game quality game with your husband that said husband gave him the clue and told him to work with you - I'm very disappointed because I was hoping for a sharing of the clues - she knows there are clues out there, she knows that her husband shared his clue with John, she couldn't find out where the idol was, hello!!! 

 

Still waiting for the time the rock-paper-scissors winning team put up someone with no "loved one" in the game. Could Nathalie have chosen her opponent? So far I'm still relatively ok with the gimmick, but it's wearing thin, I was ok with it for the first episode but would like a real tribal challenge sooner than later. 

 

Jeff's "John not doing well, who could have seen that coming", or some equivalent, had me both mentally face-palming and waving "me, me". With this kind of challenge, I'd always bet on the one taking a deep, slow breath (does she do yoga? anyway, she knows how to focus) over the jock working his neck muscles. Oh Jeff :-(

 

And in that regard, notwithstanding her choice of men (but then again, she's just dating him, and who here never made a dating mistake?), I kind of like Julie.

 

I also like the 3 times divorced mum and felt for her big time in the immunity challenge. Not surprised she lost, and that is NOT a judgment on her physical abilities.

 

I agree with her tribemates' sympathy with Nathalie - "it's tough to see a tough girl cry". [based on my personal experience]

 

Back to Jeff - after the tougher match up then, Nathalie/Val, he has the gall to say that the John match up is the biggest battle that far? Don't remember his exact word but "another big battle coming" would have been more appropriate wording (unless of course broadcasting didn't show the actual sequence, in which case I eat my words and apologize for thinking the worst of Jeff).

 

So far, I don't like Baylor, who seem very manipulative to me. Good on her though with surviving the vote, even if a big part of that was not thanks to her own actions/words but more to Val sabotaging herself.  

 

ETA: jzgayle, I agree with you in that for once (in a long while) the idols have to be dug up. Big improvement in my book.

Edited October 2, 2014 by NutMeg

[Wings]

Rocker implied that he would give his idol to Val if she were in danger.  He said this "knowing" she had two, so easy to say.  She missed a chance  to be truthful when he told her to definitely use it at TC.  He showed exasperation that she didn't have/use one.  Was he really going to help her?  We will never know and it seems unlikely.

[NutMeg]

Despite the title quote not being theirs, I thing it could be attributed equally to describe Val's and John's actions...

Edited October 2, 2014 by NutMeg

[Wings]

Despite the quote not being theirs, I thing it could be attributed equally to describe Val's and John's actions...

 

 

What quote?  I don't understand what you are saying. 

[NutMeg]

What quote?  I don't understand what you are saying.

 

Sorry, meant title quote, will go back and edit/

[lilly6]

Josh is playing to the cameras.  He's in this to get famous enough to get a job on Broadway.

[Latverian Diplomat]

 she played her mom in that challenge in my opinion. Oh I'm sure her lip really was split but that whole "I'm okay, let's play" all while I look at you with Bambi, blubbering eyes was total manipulation and man did it work. Missy all but threw that game away and all I could think at that point was she better pray her tribe wins because she might be in trouble.  

 

I guess I'm not so cynical, I read both both Baylor and Missy as being genuine in that situation. A surprise injury to the face, even a minor one, can still trigger a stress response, and Baylor looked like she was working her way through that, and she was stuck in a small space with the person who just headbutted her, no place to walk it off, and Missy wanted to hover over her.

 

And Missy's response was understandable, hurting your kid, even in a superficial way and by accident, is just a terrible feeling.

[Wings]

Josh is playing to the cameras.  He's in this to get famous enough to get a job on Broadway.

 

 

I see him as genuine and just being himself.  I don't think a stint on Survivor translates to Broadway.  

[lilly6]

He's an aspiring Broadway performer who's only gotten as close as one show Off-Broadway.  He's hoping the higher profile from Survivor will get him in the door of an audition. 

[Jodithgrace]

John Rocker encounters a gay man, an african american man, and a woman.

 

And says, "hey what is this..some kind of a joke?"

 

I think Val confused the term "big move" with "nonsensical move." Last week at tribal council, I noticed that she did the idol fake out move, reaching down and rooting through her bag after Jeff asked the idol question, then looking up innocently. So i suppose her "logic," is that she found the idol last week and another this week, even though there wouldn't BE another on the same beach unless one was used. So instead of one target on her back, she puts two!

 

I highly recommend everybody read Dalton Ross' recaps of Survivor on the Entertainment Weekly site. He's actually been there and helped tweak this week's reward challenge, and has some pretty funny things to say about the whole thing. 

[Haleth]

Kudos to Julie for her calm demeanor in the reward challenge.  Probst couldn't shake her no matter how much he babbled about Rocker catching up.

 

This is playing out the way it so often does; the producers' favorite finds the idol.  And sure, it's too early to think end game, but with everyone learning who Rocker is, isn't he the perfect goat?  Obnoxious, check.  Bombastic, check.  Rich, check.  I believe he'll be in the game for a looong time.

 

Val, Val, Val.  Sigh.  What a dumb mistake to claim to have idols.  Instead of deflecting any reason for writing her name down she gives her tribemates a good reason to do so.  Why would she go along with Rocker's half baked scheme when she really did not have any protection?  Guess I can root for the blue team now.

[Whimsy]

I'm actually sort of curious how likely it would be that a firefighter wouldn't be able to start a fire without flint.  Sure, they put out fires, but they also have to do things like starting controlled burns as part of their firefighting efforts.  I can wave that away with them having matches, lighters, torches, whatever to start a fire.  But still, the idea that a firefighter doesn't have any sort of training in starting a fire from scratch - even if it's just part of basic survival skills - seems bizarre to me.  It would be like a plumber not knowing how to clog a pipe.  

My husband is a firefighter.  He WAS notoriously bad about starting fires when we were camping.  He always joked it was because he had to put them out, not start them.  He's gotten better over the years with practice.  They don't start controlled burns unless they are an instructor at the academy.  So, starting a fire would put a firefighter equal to anyone else- either you can or you can't.  Depends on how much you practice.  ;) 

[ProfCrash]

Val played a horrible game. Her body language was closed and pulled in. Her lie about two immunity idols was flat out stupid and the fact that anyone on her tribe believed that she had two idols indicates that her tribe mates are not all that smart about the game. John Rocker is the same John Rocker who got into trouble in the first place. His comments and actions are just annoying and I am pissed he has an immunity idol. I do like that his cover is blown and I hope that Boston Firefighter totally says who he is at the next challenge.

 

Losing the flint, especially after the firefighter family had lost their flint and been scolded for it, is flat out ridiculous. Just, what the hell is going on?

[Wings]

 

This is playing out the way it so often does; the producers' favorite finds the idol.

 

 

I don't think he is the producers favorite at all.  And I doubt they helped him find the idol.  He had specific instructions as to where it was.  Dig 7 paces north of the well!  I wonder if Jeremy found one at his camp.  That would have been nice to see.  They tend to focus on the tribe who is going to TC and we don't get to know the others until they lose.  

[lilly6]

I have to say, I am finding Julie surprisingly likable.

[ghoulina]

Jeremy was bothering me when he once again said that he needed someone to protect his wife. He acts like Val is so helpless and can't fend for herself, although she's proven she's not that smart but nevertheless.

 

Yea, I really don't get why he keeps harping on that. He knows she's a cop, right? It would be different if he said he wanted someone to work with his wife - because that would be interesting. Forming bonds across tribes. Maybe he didn't mean physical protection, but protection from herself? Given all the blunders she made in this episode?

[Haleth]

And I doubt they helped him find the idol

 

Oh, I do too.  I wasn't suggesting shenanigans.  (But I do maintain that the producers are thrilled he found it so it will keep him and the prospect for fireworks in the game.)

[FineWashables]

So John Rocker interviews that he's upset with Val for not playing her idol because now Jeremy is going to think that Rocker betrayed him by letting Val get voted off, when that wasn't Rocker's plan at all.  Then he writes Val's name down.  Yeah, Jeremy is going to jump to a real wrong conclusion, Rocker.  You're so misunderstood.  Asshat.

 

Val really painted herself into a corner with that idol story.  I'm not sure how she could have gotten out of it but if it were me, I would have targeted one of the other people and told Rocker that this person was talking smack about him.  Always worked with Russell and Tony and Boston Rob.

 

My dad was a fireman who rose really high up in the NYFD because he studied fire and fire control.  He knew exactly what a fire needs to burn.  The man could start a fire under a coffee can in the pouring rain.  Seriously.  So I'm surprised that Jeremy has no firestarting skills.  

 

Baylor isn't a very nice person but I now think she's going far in this game.  (Which pretty much guarantees she'll be voted off next week.)  The drama with her lip was played to full effect and she managed to deflect the vote toward Val based on her comments at tribal.  

 

 

[Wings]

I have to say, I am finding Julie surprisingly likable.

 

 

Me too.  I am beginning to wonder what she sees in him.  

[seacliffsal]

Yellow tribe was right to send Val home.  She told her tribe that she had two idols-and I don't blame her tribe for believing her.  With all the surprises that the producers like to pull out, they could have planted multiple idols this year; unless the survivors were specifically told that there was only one idol per tribe, there really isn't a good way to know-especially with Exile Island in the mix.  And, I do believe that John was trying to help her by warning her of the vote and that she needed to use an idol.  No way should he offer his to her when she has 'two'.  By John's reasoning, Baylor would have gone home and Val would still have had an idol.  So, he specifically told her to use one of her idols.  I also think that if she had responded to Baylor in a different way she may have deflected some votes.  

 

If Jeremy ends up telling everyone who John really is I think he will actually help John's game.  Who wouldn't want to take him to the end?  Nobody (except Julie) would vote for him-millionaire, pain in the butt....perfect goat.  I'm glad that Julie went all out and didn't worry about beating him in the reward challenge.  Wonder if there will be problems in paradise as a result...

 

However, I do think that Jeremy will target Julie if their tribe loses which will be really interesting as we don't really know what the alliances are on that tribe.  A positive note would be for Jeremy to be voted out so that he can protect Val at Ponderosa...

[Alapaki]

Yellow tribe was right to send Val home.  She told her tribe that she had two idols-and I don't blame her tribe for believing her.

 

 

I could see the rest of the Tribe believing that Val might've found a HII at Exile Island and another one back at camp.  But I don't understand John Rocker believing her.  because I really don't think it's plausible that more than one HII would be hidden at the same camp at the same time.

 

Ultimately though, I still don't get why Val was bluffing about having two HIIs.  If you have 2, people would think you'd be more likely to play 1 of them.  If they think they have a split-vote arranged that insulates them (and it seems that it's obvious amongst that Tribe that Baylor has a target on her back), then you're almost guaranteeing that they'll vote to flush 1 of your Idols.

 

Val reminded me of Costanza's candy-bar-line-up.  "Who were you trying to set up, anyway?"

[Wings]

Val had an abrasive personality from day one so I am not sure she would have survived even without her fake idol.  Seemed she had a bone to pick.  Her behavior when she returned from EI did not help her forge a relationship with tripe members.  It was crucial for her longevity to come back, not make waves and work very hard at bonding.  Epic fail.   

[Alapaki]

I'm also not sure Jeremy is playing a smart game. He appears to be trying the "tell everyone you want to align with them, . . . and hope none of them talk to each other."

[Lamb18]

I've had a problem with a lot of the idols found the last five years or so.  It may simply be because I never like the person who finds them.  It did look ridiculous. Rocker scratching aimlessly at the dirt, then suddenly - THERE IT IS!  His actions told me there was no way he'd find it, but it was obvious the camera was only on him for that reason.

I wonder if there wasn't a good camera shot of Rocker finding the idol so they had him rebury it and find it again.  (I was wondering this last season with Tony, too.)  That would explain the obviousness of the camera.  You'd think someone else would notice, however.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Lamb18

[Wings]

I wonder if there wasn't a good camera shot of Rocker finding the idol so they had him rebury it and find it again.  (I was wondering this last season with Tony, too.)  That would explain the obviousness of the camera.  You'd think someone else would notice, however.

 

 

There are enough camera men out there to follow anyone who leaves camp, especially the one who has the idol clue!   The scene of him finding the II may have been one of several/many tries.  

[Jersey Guy 87]

 

Jeremy was bothering me when he once again said that he needed someone to protect his wife. He acts like Val is so helpless and can't fend for herself, although she's proven she's not that smart but nevertheless.

 

Val clearly needed protection - she's an idiot with no idea how to play the game.  From failing to try and make a cross-tribe alliance at Exile Island to claiming she had two HIIs after only one tribal council to acting like an ass at TC she needed someone to help her not get herself voted out.  Unfortunately, Jeremy was stuck hoping Rocker would be that guy, and Rocker is an even bigger idiot than Val.

 

I was quite okay with Probst being aggressive in bargaining with the winning tribe over the flint.  How do you lose a flint in Survivor?  Fire may not exactly be life but fire is very important, sooner or later it's going to rain and you're not going to be able to keep your fire going, you'll need to light a new one and these idiots lose their flint and don't go all-out trying to find it?  Hell, Probst should have told them they were going to tribal immediately in return for a flint.

[leighdear]

I'm with those thinking JRock is the perfect goat to string along until the end.  I'd hate to get to the end and like all of the finalists (though that's never happened!)

[Primetimer]

More Blood is shed, in more ways than one.

Read the story

[Alapaki]

I'm with those thinking JRock is the perfect goat to string along until the end.

 

 

He's a great goat.  But, I think his actions this week demonstrated that you absolutely cannot give him any control/information/input in strategy.  He probably knows he can't win, and probably has enough money to not care about that fact.  So he has nothing to lose.

 

Sure, don't vote him out.  Maybe try to get him to vote a certain way if/when you need the numbers.  But never put him in a position to have any power.

[peachmangosteen]

And just like that all my excitement for this season ends. It's gonna be a rough one. The sexism is already at an all-time high. Dammit.

 

I haven't been paying a lot of attention, but it seems that Rocker's team has now voted off their two strongest girls.  How exactly does that increase their chances to win future challenges?

 

Duh, girls are icky and useless and should be eliminated at all costs no matter what. Any man is better than any woman, silly!

 

I noticed that the other team sat out Julie in the immunity challenge, and she was the one who won the reward challenge for them.

 

I wanted some explanation on this because it seemed like it made no sense. But then I thought maybe Julie thought she might not be the best at this challenge because of her boobs or something.

 

Josh is playing to the cameras.  He's in this to get famous enough to get a job on Broadway.

 

I agree. He is insufferable to me. So obnoxious. As soon as he started blithering on about Broadway, I would've just changed my vote to him because he is SO annoying.

 

I love how John was blatantly sexist at the reward challenge and everyone just laughed. Ha ha, sexism, so funny! But then everyone remember he's a racist homophobe too and so then and only then did they decide to hate him.

 

I really like Julie a lot and I can not understand why she's with John. But, for some reason, it doesn't make me like her any less. But Reed has gone down in my esteem because he is with Josh. 

 

Baylor is as insufferable as Josh. Her crying over the split lip was so annoying. At first I thought she was playing her mom, which I liked, but no she was just acting like a big baby. I can't stand her.

 

I also can not stand Dale. He strikes me as very arrogant. Plus his going on and on about his daughter going against his teammate nearly sent me into a rage blackout.

 

Basically I hate almost everyone and they all seem really stupid. Not to mention all the sexism. Joy!

Edited October 2, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[panthergirl13]

I do call shenanigans on this show re finding idols AND 'figuring out' the identity of the various semi-famous people who have appeared. Both always seem manipulated by production to me. Wish a former contestant would confirm one way or the other.

[Lamb18]

I thought maybe Julie sat out the Immunity Challenge because she won the Reward challenge for them, so they were giving her a break.

[Tryangle]

Yeah there definitely appeared to be a headbutt or two during Rocker's joust, which would likely explain his profanity when Probst asked him what's up. Or, he could just be pissed at losing to somebody else.

 

This Immunity challenge setup is getting more dangerous every time they do it. Baylor could potentially have lost a tooth or two after crashing into her mom.

 

Best duel to me oddly enough was Natalie vs Val as both realized leverage was a key tool. I'd bet if either was paired vs any of the other women, they'd have had the edge.

[Slider]

Don't really have a problem with Jon Rocker; he tried to help Val out but she sabotaged herself.  I do wonder if she was kind of mad at Jeremy for setting up an alliance for her instead of letting her do it herself.  

 

It played out like it should have, but I wish Baylor had been the one voted out because I can't stand her. 

 

I want to see the other team lose just to see more of their strategy and where their heads are at because we have no clue right now where anything lies. 

[StatMom]

I had some specific posts marked to reply to, but they disappeared. Anyway, agree with the thoughts that Jeff has become more and more of a tool in the way he comments and deals with the contestants. Or maybe the pattern is just more obvious after all these seasons. I get that, as a producer, he's happy when there's conflict and high emotion. But does he have to show such glee about it every time? "Ha ha, boy that mom sure is bummed about injuring her daughter! LOL!"

 

And lording it over the team about losing their flint. Yes, it's their fault and you don't have to give them anything. But he just has to amplify the "neener neener" quotient every single time he has the chance.

 

I won't even address the sexist crap he doles out. Such a contrast to Phil on TAR.

[Tryangle]

I want to see the other team lose just to see more of their strategy and where their heads are at because we have no clue right now where anything lies. 

 

Aside from model-guy being an airhead, I agree. Jeremy was trying to put together something with some of the women, but we don't know for sure if it's stuck.

[NutMeg]

One more thing - would Val even had been targeted in she hadn't started the whole two-idol charade? Based on talking heads, I got the feeling she was trying to save Jaclyn, her last ally. But then again why save your only alliance partner if it's a case of her or you? Sure, she didn't see it this way at the time, but then why not build up her challenge potential to steer some guys instead of this 2-idol nonsense and talking smack about Baylor because she voted with the guys!!!?

 

Val is very bad at Survivor - and that's too bad, I was looking forward to seeing more of her. 

[blackwing]

I thought it must be really hot out there and that the challenges must take a long time when I noticed that in the second Boobs McGee vs. the Farmer's daughter face off their hair had already dried. (Seems the editors were noticing something else).

Julie "Boobs" McGee is on the same team as Farmer's daughter, who I think is named Kelly?  Julie was sitting out for the blue team.  Farmer's daughter faced off against Miss Michigan Jacqueline, whose boyfriend is Jon (no H) who wears the ripped dress shirt and lost the flint.  I did get annoyed at how Jacqueline cupped/grabbed/squeezed her fake looking huge boobs each time right before her two fights started.  What was she doing there?  Was cupping them going to help keep them in her top?  You'd think she'd bring a one piece (or ask for one if it's a provided suit) if she was worried about them falling out.  Was it out of some kind of superstition?  Are they lucky big boobies?  Does she do this in Vegas before her throw at the craps table???  Inquiring minds want to know!

[tvfanatic13]

I am having a very hard time finding someone to really root for. There are many I am actively rooting against however. I also really don't like the "duel" format for the reward challenges. It's like they already had the challenges set up for Redemption Island, and when they scrapped RI, they needed to put them to use. REwards should be won and lost by teams, not one person. Not loving this season thus far, but I remain hopeful....

[Artsda]

Val was just stupid, telling John she had 2 idols. He was dumb to believe her, but she caused that elimination on herself.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Artsda

[needschocolate]

Josh's explanation made no sense - I didn't want the guys to think that I had an alliance with Baylor, so, instead of voting with the guys and voting for Nadiya, I voted against the only woman that voted with the guys. Baylor is silly for even taking that explanation into consideration at all. 

 

And, since Baylor was the only woman who voted with the guy alliance last week, why was the back-up target this week?  Why not target Jackie (I think that is the name - the woman who isn't Val or Baylor).

 

Jeff's "John not doing well, who could have seen that coming", or some equivalent, had me both mentally face-palming and waving "me, me". With this kind of challenge, I'd always bet on the one taking a deep, slow breath (does she do yoga? anyway, she knows how to focus) over the jock working his neck muscles. Oh Jeff :-(

 

It was such a ridiculous comment to make - the challenge involved balance, concentration, and rolling a ball up a ramp, none of which requires testosterone or big muscles.  Perhaps Jeff thinks that John spent his baseball career carefully rolling the ball to home plate or he carried the ball there on a giant paddle.