S03.E08: Amor Fati

[tennisgurl]

You either die a hero, of live long enough to become Tonya. 

For real though, I don't think it was exactly the same as what Tonya did to her, the plans Belinda and Tonya had were a lot more thought out than what she and Pornchai has talked about, but it does go to show that money can change people. Zion was really feeling himself with his "MBA baby" salesman pitch, he's just lucky that Greg seems like he just wants to be done with the whole thing instead of arranging for Zion and Belinda to have some kind of unfortunate accident. 

Timothy, maybe when you use a blender to make poisoned cocktails to kill your family and decide not to, consider cleaning it out? No wonder your going to jail. 

I was sure that we would get just one body this season as we have previously, I was really surprised that we got such a high body count. Poor Chelsea, collateral damage to her boyfriends need for revenge. Rick had so many opportunities to just let things go and move on with his life, a life that seems pretty good, and he threw it all away. That's bad enough, but he clearly didn't have to bring Chelsea along to his murder vacation, who he really doesn't even seem to like, but he did and now she's dead. The tragedy of Rick and Chelsea is that they both thought that they were the protagonists in totally different stories, Rick thought he was in a "you killed my father" revenge story while Chelsea thought she was the manic pixie dream girl that saves a tormented man, and they were both wrong. 

I love that as soon as Piper decided that the simple life was not for her she stopped wearing her earth tones and simple dresses and started wearing bright colors that look a like how her mom dresses. I am really disappointed that we didn't get to see the the Ratliffs reaction to finding out that Timothy lost their money and is going to jail, Victoria might drop dead on her own accord. At least she has finally figured out what country she's in, which I guess is character development. 

Mook might be one of the most unhinged characters in this whole show, and that is saying something. She was all disappointed by Gaitok's story about how he saved someone in the last episode and how he understandably doesn't want to be a security guard, but is all over him the second he kills someone. Gaitok gets the promotion and the girl, but at what cost?

I am not surprised that the girls trip ended the way it did, once you've been friends for that long your just stuck with each other. You might be catty and shitty to each other, but they still have that bond. 

This was a weird season pacing wise, and I think we could have gotten more out of the location and themes, but it was a fun ride. 

Edited April 9 by tennisgurl

[KittyQ]

3 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Belinda’s morals went out the window once she saw Gary flinched about giving her more $$$. She put a price on her morals and their lives for 5M. Good deal I guess. But eh, I could have done w/o that storyline.

I was disappointed with Belinda about this. I thought she betrayed her principles, although I thought that practically speaking, letting Greg/Gary believe she'd been bought off might be the way to get him off her track. After reading all these comments, though, I'm wondering if letting Greg/Gary buy her off for more money isn't smarter than refusing on principle. Money is clearly what drives his life, given Season 2 and how he's ended up in Thailand, so trading in the "currency" he values would convince him that she's no threat to him.

I do think that Belinda, like Piper, may have found that she can't live up to her own expectations of herself. We may see ourselves as being one thing, but when push comes to shove, comfort and safety can take precedence over our ideals.

[Snapdragon]

14 minutes ago, KittyQ said:

It isn't the fruit that is poisonous, it is the seeds. Most people would never consider eating the seeds, and it would take more than one seed to kill you. That's why Tim collected all those fruits and pulverized the seeds for his toxic Pina Coladas. 

There are other fruits with poisonous elements. Peach pits, for example, have a compound that turns to cyanide when digested, but no one worries too much about it. You'd have to deliberately choose to eat a peach pit, which I think wouldn't be that easy or tasty. 

So I looked this up last night after Lochlan drank the smoothie to see if he'd drank enough to kill himself, and apparently one kernal from inside a seed is fatal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerbera_odollam#Use_for_suicide

So, no, it would not take more than one seed to kill you.  Also, my internet research said that there is no antidote, so yeah, I was totally expecting Lochlan to die.

[slowpoked]

27 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

So I looked this up last night after Lochlan drank the smoothie to see if he'd drank enough to kill himself, and apparently one kernal from inside a seed is fatal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerbera_odollam#Use_for_suicide

So, no, it would not take more than one seed to kill you.  Also, my internet research said that there is no antidote, so yeah, I was totally expecting Lochlan to die.

That’s why I felt that Lochlan coming back from the dead is such a copout. His death would have jolted that family, really give them the comeuppance they deserve. Instead, the so-called genius storyteller of satirizing white people bails them out with a weak “we’re going to get through this together as a family.” And with all of that posturing from Victoria the entire season about how she can’t afford to live an uncomfortable life anymore, this is the one time where she has nothing to say at all?!?! Color me unimpressed. Would have been more satisfying if she had jumped off that boat right at that moment.

Edited April 7 by slowpoked

[snarts]

3 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

He’s absolutely not ready to face his dire reality, none of them are.  But that’s life - they’ll need to figure it out, as ill equipped as they are.  In the end Tim realized struggle and even humiliation was better than death.

That's my point, Tim decided to spare his family now but the dire reality of his situation hasn't even begun to be felt. He spent the last five days ignoring everything yet he was already contemplating suicide/family annihilation. How will he react when their assets are seized?  

It's like they tried to wrap the storyline up in a nice bow but nothing really changed other than him chickening out on the poison route like he did the suicide attempt. Had Lochlan actually died as a result of his actions, maybe then I might believe he realized the struggle/humiliation wasn't worth dying/killing his family. 

The three friends may have felt like a b-storyline but it was honest IMHO. Anyone who's had a friend for more than 20+ years through the various stages of life knows that, like family, there are aspects that annoy/anger/hurt you even though you do love them.

[tvfanatic13]

Why was Fabian? 

Hated this season but I will be back to see if 4 is an improvement. 

[tennisgurl]

I should have known that the whole snake debacle with Rick and Chelsea was foreshadowing their fates. Rick lets the dangerous snakes out in a fit of emotion without thinking about the consequences and Chelsea gets hurt, and in the end Rick does the same thing when he shot Jim in the middle of the resort and Chelsea got killed. Or maybe Rick was the snake? 

[T Summer]

A "tightly wound thriller"? served up over 8 weeks ???   That's a big NO.

With a tonne of editing  this could've made a decent 90 minute movie... maybe a two-parter.

I've never fallen asleep watching a series so much in my life.😴

 

I didn't forsee Chelsea's dying with Rick, but her countering "what could be worse?" to whatever it was Chloe was babbling about  model girlfriends who were romantics ending up with broken hearts kept recurring to me throughout.

Timothy even thinking of offing his family was ridiculous. If he did himself in maybe by ingesting ground Pong Pong fruit seeds and slipping into the water, his family would stay wealthy...  because best believe a business man who considers 10 mil not that big of a deal has significant life insurance.

but if he did stand to lose everything and you tease the audience for this long (or many scenes) with the certainty the shallow materialistic family members especially mum are headed for a major meltdown, how dare you cheat us out of it [Mr. White]?

Cut the incest-ish scene and for God's sake Frank's monologue. [I know many thought it was brilliant... I thought it was some gross oversharing]

I'd cut 3/4 of the blond squad... blond mob whatever's   material.

The robbery  and the Russians didn't matter... I guess only to count as the 2nd bad thing to happen to Chelsea after the snake bite.

As if Saxon would have wasted all that time targeting two taken women like Chelsea and Chloe. 🙄He'd be conquering other hotel patrons or local girls. He said It's a numbers game, Loch. Never thought Piper was going to become a Buddhist so that was another time suck. They could have just been on a family vacation.

and of course,  Rick with a few working brain cells would've  never returned  to the hotel   that the old man he pushed over and the woman he just conned owned.🙄 So so dumb.

Did anyone notice when Chelsea was explaining her spiritual bond with Rick to Saxon in a previous episode she said when they met he told her his whole life story and she was touched and determined to save him? It didn't fit with all their scenes revolving around  her being unable to get him to talk about what was bothering him.

 

[Madding crowd]

54 minutes ago, KittyQ said:

It isn't the fruit that is poisonous, it is the seeds. Most people would never consider eating the seeds, and it would take more than one seed to kill you. That's why Tim collected all those fruits and pulverized the seeds for his toxic Pina Coladas. 

There are other fruits with poisonous elements. Peach pits, for example, have a compound that turns to cyanide when digested, but no one worries too much about it. You'd have to deliberately choose to eat a peach pit, which I think wouldn't be that easy or tasty. 

I get that but this is specifically called the suicide fruit, is loaded with seeds and they would likely have customers getting sick from grabbing a fruit hanging right outside your door. It is difficult to eat thus fruit without the seeds getting in your mouth so a bit different than a peach.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, ahpny said:

This is not correct at least under the law of most states in the US. see  https://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/misprision-of-felony.html. She does not "know" a felony has been committed, and merely has suspicions. She will not necessary "lose" the money even if her actions were a crime because she could spend it, or park in a jurisdiction that's inaccessible to US or Italian authorities. What proof would there be that the $5 million was in exchange for "keeping quite?" Greg/Gary and Belinda (and her son) could concoct some ostensible business proposal to cover the financial transfer, like Greg/Gary investing in her business proposal. In short, though she is clearly morally compromised, she is not clearly criminally compromised.

I think you should take a look at how the law in various states is written concerning accomplice liability, and liability after the fact.  I would love to see if Belinda ends up having to explain where the 5 million came from, since her bank will have to report that kind of deposit to the feds.  You also need to remember that Belinda is not a master criminal.  For example, if she claimed the money came from Greg for her to start a spa, the next thing she'll be asked is to provide proof to support her story, which, of course, she does not have.         

[RedHawk]

Despite the disappointments and annoyances, I really enjoyed so many of the actors. I especially enjoyed Aimee Lou Wood and her teeth, Jason Isaacs' nailing that North/South Carolina rich man in agony role, Carrie Cool pingponging emotionally, Jon Gries as evil Gregary, Walter Goggins emoting, and the hilarious surprise of Sam Rockwell and THAT monologue. Patrick Schwarzenegger showed he has the chops, too. And of course Parker Posey bringing to full life the delightfully awful Victoria.

As bad as I thought the writing was for Rick to get all murderously angry again toward Jim, Goggins gave it his all in trying to sell that to us.

Edited April 7 by RedHawk
Added more!

[overtherainbow]

50 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I guess this show is sort of interesting as a quirky character study but a lot of it never went anywhere.

The three gal pals, for example, mostly just sat around and talked. One would see the other two talking and get jealous, then another would see the other two talking and feel jealous, then another would see the other two talking and be jealous. Then they get in a fight then they make up. The end. 

And really? The Ratliff family - this never went anywhere either. The mom's quirky and goofy, the kids are messed up and the brothers get into some kinky sex stuff but nothing ever really comes of it. Tim spent eight episodes spiraling out in a daze and popping pills right and left, fantasized about killing his family, put a gun to his head but didn't pull the trigger, almost poisoned his family but backed out of it, Lochlan almost died but didn't, then they all got on a boat and went home. We didn't even get to see their reactions to finding out Tim was probably going to jail and they'd probably lost all their money. I'm not sure what the point of any of this was.

The only stories that really went anywhere were Belinda's, Gaitok's and Rick's. And Rick's felt especially unsatisfactory. We never learned why he thought that guy killed his father or how or why that guy turned out to be his real father. It was just seven episodes of this guy obsessing over something.

I dunno. Like I say, quirky character study and that's about it. I'm not going to pretend it's high art though.

Season 1's finale had the most satisfying build up and finale between Armond getting his revenge and Shane going full on unhinged, IMO. This season felt draggy but somehow the finale also felt rushed. Like there was too much build up that didn't really have as satisfying of a payout. Chekov's fruit/blender was too obvious. I agree it's a good character study, though not 'high art'. 

37 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

You either die a hero, of live long enough to become Tonya. 

For real though, I don't think it was exactly the same as what Belinda did to her, the plans she and Tonya had were a lot more in thought out than what she and Pornchai has talked about, but it does go to show that money can change people. Zion was really feeling himself with his "MBA baby" salesman pitch, he's just lucky that Greg seems like he just wants to be done with the whole thing instead of arranging for Zion and Belinda to have some kind of unfortunate accident. 

Timothy, maybe when you use a blender to make poisoned cocktails to kill your family and decide not to, consider cleaning it out? No wonder your going to jail. 

I was sure that we would get just one body this season as we have previously, I was really surprised that we got such a high body count. Poor Chelsea, collateral damage to her boyfriends need for revenge. Rick had so many opportunities to just let things go and move on with his life, a life that seems pretty good, and he threw it all away. That's bad enough, but he clearly didn't have to bring Chelsea along to his murder vacation, who he really doesn't even seem to like, but he did and now she's dead. The tragedy of Rick and Chelsea is that they both thought that they were the protagonists in totally different stories, Rick thought he was in a "you killed my father" revenge story while Chelsea thought she was the manic pixie dream girl that saves a tormented man, and they were both wrong. 

I love that as soon as Piper decided that the simple life was not for her she stopped wearing her earth tones and simple dresses and started wearing brough colors that look a like like how her mom dresses. I am really disappointed that we didn't get to see the the Ratliffs reaction to finding out that Timothy lost their money and is going to jail, Victoria might drop dead on her own accord. At least she has finally figured out what country she's in, which I guess is character development. 

Mook might be one of the most unhinged characters in this whole show, and that is syaing something. She was all disappointed by Gaitok's story about how he saved someone in the last episode and how he ,understandably, doesn't want to be a security guard, but is all over him the second he kills someone. Gaitok gets the promotion and the girl, but at what cost?

I am not surprised that the girls trip ended the way it did, once you've been friends for that long your just stuck with each other. You might be catty and shitty to each other, but they still have that bond. 

This was a weird season pacing wise, and I think we could have gotten more out of the location and themes, but it was a fun ride. 

Belinda - getting that money was wayyy too easy. I don't want to see GregGary in another season but I do want her to catch some karma if she ends up a guest at the next resort. 

Rick/Chelsea -  How dumb was it that Rick didn't just lay low after threatening his dad and warn Chelsea? Nope, what really did them in was loading up on the big breakfast spread. 

Ratliffs - the irony is that just as Piper embraces being a material girl she's about to find out her dad got them so wealthy running a ponzi scheme. I totally agree that seeing the aftermath of finding that out was a missed opportunity. Imagine he revealed it after throwing away the pina coladas and Victoria shacked up with another rich resort guest and Saxon had a bigger breakdown. 

Mook - I hate the 'young women really don't want a 'nice' guy, they have a deep seated evolutionary need for one who's a killer deep down' trope so much and this isn't even the first time we've seen it play out in this show. 

3 women - agreed. I loved the way this ended and it felt the most satisfying. 

[RedHawk]

I liked that we don't see what happens after the Ratliffs get back home. The way they all began to react as they saw the news on their phones was great. They thought they were heading back to their usual lives of ease and comfort, and instead the rug is suddenly being pulled out from under them. Just leaving the rest to our imaginations was enough for me.

[grawlix]

I found the finale clunky and underwhelming.  I was mostly bored with the season.

 

Maybe I’m wrong, but Belinda didn’t seem passionate about her profession.  She was very good at it and could make a good career of doing it.  Since Greg/Gary provided her a change in circumstances, work wasn’t important to her anymore.  As for her morals, people have bent their morals for a lot less.  We just know now that her price is somewhere between 100K and 5M.

As for Pornchai, he interacted enough with Belinda and saw someone who might be a good partner is the spa business.   There was no more serious discussion about it, just presenting the opportunity.

 

The whole female friends storyline did not interest me at all.

 

The Ratliffs were a big disappointment.  After all the blah blah blah about how they enjoyed their lifestyle, we get the father’s cryptic statement on the boat.  The only reaction we see is Saxon’s quiet recognition of what has occurred and dad staring at the ocean.  I think it should have included some of the initial fallout from the news.  Avoiding the fallout might be considered artsy but I consider it lazy writing.

As others have stated, Tim stopped his attempt of the killing of his family once.  It makes little sense to me that he would ignore cleaning the blender of his poison concoction.

 

Mook and Gaitok was a meh storyline for me.  Mook liked Giatok enough to date but wasn’t sure he could provide her with the life she wanted.  There are folks who want that in a partner, not gold digging.

 

Rick and Chelsea.   This storyline was so clunky.  I get Jim’s alpha male response but I’d rather it had been some cruel variation of Darth Vader’s “I’m your father” than what was presented.  I thought Chelsea’s death was rather dumb.  I’ve understand standing behind her man but not when with a shootout is happening.  Run for cover behind the big old gong like Rick did.  I feel like the only reason it was written that way is so Rick would take out Sritala’s bodyguards.  Thus, Mook and Gaitok would have their happy ending.

 

Edited April 7 by grawlix

[Jaundiced Eye]

2 hours ago, SG429 said:

Aren't deposits >$10K (to legit banks) subject to reporting requirements?

I was wondering about this too. Belinda needs to pay taxes on the $5 million, but how do you explain the transaction? It's not income, it's not a gift. Could it be classified as an investment in her possible future spa?

[T Summer]

1 hour ago, Snapdragon said:

So I looked this up last night after Lochlan drank the smoothie to see if he'd drank enough to kill himself, and apparently one kernal from inside a seed is fatal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerbera_odollam#Use_for_suicide

So, no, it would not take more than one seed to kill you.  Also, my internet research said that there is no antidote, so yeah, I was totally expecting Lochlan to die.

We need a very thorough... you went above and beyond emotie! 👍   🕵️‍♀️

[slowpoked]

4 minutes ago, Jaundiced Eye said:

I was wondering about this too. Belinda needs to pay taxes on the $5 million, but how do you explain the transaction? It's not income, it's not a gift. Could it be classified as an investment in her possible future spa?

That’s easy enough to explain with paperwork. I’m sure Greg/Gary has an army of lawyers at his disposal to draft the agreement to be most tax beneficial, and most protective of him. I think it would be a gift. He already has a large estate anyway, 5M gift is a drop in the bucket when they all eventually do his estate planning.

[RedHawk]

12 hours ago, kittykat said:

Thought Lochy was a goner there. Mike White even says in the inside the episode that there was a Greek Tragedy feel to these characters so it would have been ironic if the one person Tim was trying to save ended up dead.  Still, the Ratliffs are going to be alright. They may be bonkers but they have each other. I did find it interesting that Saxon and Piper had reverse arcs.  Saxon trying to find a deeper meaning in life and Piper recognizing and owning her privilege.  Had to laugh at Victoria supporting her daughter while trying her hardest to hide her gloating.

But DO the Ratliffs have each other? Tim certainly doubts that Victoria will be happy with him when he's in prison, the money is gone or greatly reduced, and she can't show her face at the country club.

Saxon's job is kaput because Tim's company will close. Financial firms will wonder what Saxon, the founder's son, knew. He may have connections who will give him a job at another company but he'll have to work his way up. He'll remember Chelsea and maybe continue studying Buddhism. Perhaps he'll even stop being such a bro and look for a true relationship connection.

Piper has just admitted to herself that she likes her comforts and seeking the spiritual life is only wonderful if there's air conditioning and organic food. She's going to have to get a JOB and the fact that her dad is a known financial felon won't help. 

Lachlan could be ok. He has been accepted to Duke (with help from dad Tim's big donations?) but now where will he get the money to attend? He might take a "gap year" to work, visit Tim in prison and be supportive of him, and eventually discover who he truly is without the backing of wealth.

One day, one of them might think about those piña coladas Tim made them...

Edited April 7 by RedHawk
Spelling

[cardigirl]

I didn't watch all of seasons 1 and 2 of TWL, and I skipped lots of this season, too. That said, I enjoyed the scenery, but I don't think this is my type of show. I'm very unlikely to re-watch any of the episodes, and to me, the value of a show for me is if I want to re-watch it.

I enjoyed the actors, especially the Ratliffes. Overall, though, I wasn't invested in anyone's story. Same with the other two seasons.

I do think Belinda and her son are kidding themselves if they think they are safe. We'll see if they are in any future seasons.

[preeya]

4 hours ago, Harvey said:

The entire viewing experience would have been more rewarding when watched in one go without that insufferable weekly wait.

Absolutely.

[chaifan]

Sort of morbid thought...  I wonder if this show will cause an uptick in suicide deaths in Thailand, via the "suicide fruit".  With medically assisted dying becoming more accepted, but still a lot of hoops to jump through & expenses (at least in the states in the US that allow it), I could see terminally ill people looking at this as an option.  

[Cosmocrush]

12 hours ago, T Summer said:

Tim sees his first born son who's  following  in his footsteps make smoothies in that blender he requested every day... and he just leaves deadly  Pong Pong fruit residue in it and goes to bed? Right.

Tim was loaded on lorazapam; I was surprised he was aware enough to knock the drinks out of their hands.  

[RedHawk]

12 hours ago, T Summer said:

Piper could tell the food wasn't organic?🤭

I swear to God, at that point I was sure that Piper was putting it on because she knows her mother, and was then going to say, "Despite all those 'deprivations', mother, I'm going to stay."

Instead we realize that Piper is just that shallow and over-privileged. She needed to be crying in shame. 

[QQQQ]

Lord help me, but all I could see during Chelsea's death scene close-up were her two front teeth.

[peeayebee]

2 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Notice how we even don’t get a call back to the present scene time of Zion discovering that floating body, who will all now know is one of the security guards.

Was it? I thought it was Chelsea. 

2 hours ago, KittyQ said:

Peach pits, for example, have a compound that turns to cyanide when digested, but no one worries too much about it. You'd have to deliberately choose to eat a peach pit, which I think wouldn't be that easy or tasty. 

As TS Eliot might have said, "Do I dare to eat a peach... pit."

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I love that as soon as Piper decided that the simple life was not for her she stopped wearing her earth tones and simple dresses and started wearing bright colors that look a like how her mom dresses.

Ah, I missed that. I'm tempted to rewatch that part, but... nah.

43 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I liked that we don't see what happens after the Ratliffs get back home. The way they all began to react as they saw the news on their phones was great. They thought they were heading back to their usual lives of ease and comfort, and instead the rug is suddenly being pulled out from under them. Just leaving the rest to our imaginations was enough for me.

I was surprised that some people here didn't think the family knew after getting on their phones. I thought it was clear that Saxon in particular saw the bad news. Tim knew that once they had their devices back, they would find out.

I'm more sympathetic to Pornchai than a lot of other people here. He and Belinda seemed so sweet together. He liked her, and she seemed to really like him, as Zion pointed out. I think more than the business, he was hurt that she acted like their time together was no big deal.

Edited April 7 by peeayebee

[Chaos Theory]

“Gold Digger” is the wrong word for describing Mook.  She likes Gaitak well enough but from the start of the season she wanted him to be more ambitious.   That is not being a gold digger that is pushing a potential boyfriend to not settle for the easy path when you are capable of more which he did continue to show.  While shooting a dude is unfortunate it did get him a job driving around a rich lady.   I think both got what they wanted.   Gaitak got Mook and Mook got a man who wasn’t going to be stuck at the same boring job forever.

I get the girl friendship stuff.  These are three ladies who bicker with each other  and gossip about each other but despite what it looks like from the outside they really are friends and friendship that goes on through bad marriages and bad jobs is rare.

in the end I think the Radcliffe stuff was left open ended but not really.   Tim told his family that things were going to change and we see Saxon looking at his phone so he is probably looking at what is likely a thousand emails about what awaits his father when they land.  Tim looks at his family and then the water and is at peace.   I think that is ultimately the point.   He has a good family.  A strong family that ultimately loves each other and Tim realizes that everything is going to work out eventually.

 

[edhopper]

This is the second season in a row where Mike White was trying to be oh so clever with the deaths, instead of more organic plotting.

And he leaves the audience pissed off at keeping Gary free again.

I realize we now live in a consequence free country, but I would rather it doesn't bleed into my escapism TV watching.

[RedHawk]

6 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I was surprised that some people here didn't think the family knew after getting on their phones. I thought it was clear that Saxon in particular saw the bad news. Tim knew that once they had their devices back, they would find out.

I'm more sympathetic to Pornchai than a lot of other people here. He and Belinda seemed so sweet together. He liked her, and she seemed to really like him, as Zion pointed out. I think more than the business, he was hurt that she acted like their time together was no big deal.

Clearly they knew. Tim saw their reactions. It looked like, and I thought was implied, that he was considering jumping overboard.  

Interesting that some think he was as peace. Possibly, I could see that also. He's already "died a thousand times" imagining how bad it will be once they get home.
My heart went out to Pornchai! Such a sweet and seemingly good and honest character. He was into Belinda and I think they could have made a life together. But her annoying, greedy, dumb, "business school bro" of a son shows up and encourages her to do the wrong thing. Bad choice, Belinda.

But hey, to quote Cindy Lauper, "Money changes everything."

Edited April 7 by RedHawk
Added a bit

[chaifan]

2 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I was surprised that some people here didn't think the family knew after getting on their phones. I thought it was clear that Saxon in particular saw the bad news. Tim knew that once they had their devices back, they would find out.

I'd love to know how they got any reception on a boat in the middle of Thailand.  😁

(But I do agree - I think the expressions reflected they were seeing some sort of bad news.)

[RedHawk]

It would have been hilarious if, once it was clear that all his family had seen the bad news on their phones, and they were looking at him for answers, he had walked over to Victoria and handed her the bottle with one last lorazepam in it.

Edited April 7 by RedHawk
Edit

[chaifan]

1 minute ago, edhopper said:

And he leaves the audience pissed off at keeping Gary free again.

Yeah, I'm disappointed there were no real repercussions for Gary/Greg.  But it also would have been nice to have the show answer the question a lot of us were wondering in Season 2 - whether Tanya was simply a mark from the beginning (at the end of Season 1), or if Greg & Tanya meeting and falling in love was genuine, at least to begin with.  (And then Greg got sick of her, found a group of fabulously murderous gay men to partner with and hatch a plan for her death.)

Personally, I thought their bumping into each other at the first WL was not organic, and that Tanya was a mark from the get go.  But we never really knew.

 

[ahpny]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

I think you should take a look at how the law in various states is written concerning accomplice liability, and liability after the fact. 

She cannot be an "accomplice" because didn't even know Tonya died until perhaps years after Tonya's death. The only possible criminal hook would be as an assessory after the fact. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/accessory_after_the_fact, but there would be strong arguments why she wouldn't meet several of the elements of this crime and at least "with knowledge that the person committed the crime." Just because you exchange money with someone is not proof of an illicit purpose or knowledge of the crime. Suspicion yes, but proving a crime requires more. Of course, which laws would apply and how they may differ could also play a big role here.

[peeayebee]

13 minutes ago, edhopper said:

And he leaves the audience pissed off at keeping Gary free again.

I don't mind. I don't LIKE the character as a person, but I like him as a character, and Jon Gries is good. Having said that, I hope we don't see him again. What else is there for him in a storyline?

[Cosmocrush]

4 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

And as for taking the money at all I don’t know anyone at all who would turn it down to maybe pursue some justice (but most likely nothing would come of it and then you’re on a shit list for life). Not a single person. And if you think you do know someone, all you know is someone who hasn’t been presented such an offer.

The money wasn't offered; it was demanded by Zion.  At $100K Belinda was all about her principles but as soon as her son puts a 5 million dollar price for their silence the money trumps/changes principles.  I guess everyone has their price. 

[slowpoked]

22 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Was it? I thought it was Chelsea. 

I may have missed it. But I don’t think it was Chelsea because her body didn’t float far enough. But it was just weird to show that in the first episode and then not revisiting it. At least have Zion see it’s not his mom and then feel a sense of relief.

[LotusFlower]

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see any liability for Belinda.  If the Feds or the IRS or banks or the police ever inquire about the $5 million gift, she can say that she serendipitously recognized and met Greg/Gary from TWL in Hawaii (true), and that he offered her the money to follow through on his ex-wife’s promise to help her start her business (also true).  Of course there’s more to it, but Belinda can claim ignorance, especially re: Tonya’s murder. 

Edited April 7 by LotusFlower

[RedHawk]

25 minutes ago, edhopper said:

This is the second season in a row where Mike White was trying to be oh so clever with the deaths, instead of more organic plotting.

And he leaves the audience pissed off at keeping Gary free again.

I realize we now live in a consequence free country, but I would rather it doesn't bleed into my escapism TV watching.

 

10 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

I don't mind. I don't LIKE the character as a person, but I like him as a character, and Jon Gries is good. Having said that, I hope we don't see him again. What else is there for him in a storyline?

I have no doubt that White can come up with something!

I have enjoyed the Gregary character every season and like that he keeps turning up. Jon Gries plays him so well.

Edited April 7 by RedHawk
Spelling

[SlovakPrincess]

24 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see any liability for Belinda.  If the Feds or the IRS or banks or the police ever inquire about the $5 million gift, she can say that she serendipitously recognized and met Greg/Gary from TWL in Hawaii (true), and that he offered her the money to follow through on his ex-wife’s promise to help her start her business (also true).  Of course there’s more to it, but Belinda can claim ignorance, especially re: Tonya’s murder. 

Having already told Fabian earlier in the season her suspicions about Greg, when Greg specifically asked Fabian about her at the hotel … no she can’t quite feign ignorance. 
 

 Not sure that makes her liable but it puts her in a position where if authorities track down Greg and follow where his money is going, she could be questioned. 

Edited April 7 by SlovakPrincess

[aghst]

What a bloodbath.

Five bodies, could have been more, resort guests fleeing from the shooting, with 4 different shooters.  One shooter arguably executed one of the other shooters rather than apprehend him and hand him to the authorities

Unlike previous seasons, lives have changed.

Rick's zen state lasted less than a day, so easily triggered.  Did Hollinger have other children or he just have low opinion of Rick?  He just wanted to taunt Rick?  Because he had no interest in reconciling?

Gaitok threw out his values when he went to pursue Rick, all at the behest of two women, Mook the Material Girl and vengeful Sritala.

BTW, no legal repercussions to have a resort employee kill someone on the premises?  What abut business consequences?  Bad enough that people were shot and killed on the property but one of the killings was the resort security killing a client?  Not to mention the earlier robbery.  Unless there are no other high-end resorts on that island or the country, that has to affect business no?

No Pina Colada for you Lochy!  You said you could cope without having money and you like to please people so only Coke!

Lochy isn't religious but when he floated towards the afterlife, it was the silhouettes  of 4 monks peering down at him as he was rising to the surface of the water?

The real missed opportunity here was showing Victoria when she learns that they're going to be destitute and Tim will likely face some incarceration.

Though her shit-eating grin when Piper grovels about wanting to go back to the US was great too.  BTW, how could she taste whether something's organic or not?  Main difference is whether they used pesticides and other chemicals to grow the produce and livestock too.  The monks may not have much, certainly no AC but they must have spices in Thailands?  Can't imagine Thai dishes being bland.

The women reconciled though they were probably not going to be any closer than they were before this adventure.  That is until Rick killed Hollinger right in front of them and they had to flee when the cross gunfire started.

Does that kind of trauma draw them closer together or their relationship will be the same as before?  On the boat, they seem relaxed and laughing?  Kind of a strange reaction given what they experience within the past 24 hours.  Even the Ratliffs seemed calm, as were Belinda and Zion, though they have $5 million reasons to be happy.

Belinda's stance changed as soon as Zion threw out the $5 million number.  What business?  What Pornchai?  So much for setting a good example for Zion, first caught in the act when Zion arrives and flip-flopping immediately on her stated principles.

Well principles don't pay for the bills at The White Lotus.  Speaking of which, if Tim's accounts have been frozen or confiscated, how do they check out?  They had some incidentals you know.  All those meals and of course the Pina Colada mix, rum and the "off" coconut milk.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

15 hours ago, Toonces464 said:

The entire season was boring and the ending could not have been more predictable -- I've been reading speculation about everything that happened since Episode 2.

No homicidal monkeys, though!

 

[Marley]

Belinda knew the one guy for a week - not sure how it's expected or even smart to start a business with someone you barely know that you banged once.

At this point idk why anyone would wanna stay at any of The White Lotus resorts lol.

[carrps]

17 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Chekhov’s blender lol

Exactly what I said when I saw it sitting there.

 

16 hours ago, Blakeston said:

It's pretty hilarious that Belinda lived to become Tonya. She blew off Pornchai's business plans the same way that Tonya blew off Belinda's.

Even if the parallels aren't perfect, the callback was explicit. I think Belinda was as naive as Pornchai if she thought super-flake Tonya was dependable in any way. So, Belinda loses a lot of points with me.

 

16 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

So Scott Glen WAS Rick's father. How "TV Trope". 

Didn't I say this after like the second episode? Waaaaay too set up, as was Chelsea's "bad things come in threes" prediction.

 

5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

 

 

[Chaos Theory]

I would really like to meet the person who wouldn’t take 5 million dollars to not tell the police the location of  a guy who may have possibly murdered a person you knew for a week.  I would get it if they were actually friends but Belinda and Tonya knew each other for a week,  Greg is a dangerous guy,  and there is zero evidence that the Thailand police would have done much before Greg went to another country.    I absolutely would have taken that kind of money.   That kind of money would change my life and I wouldn’t look back.

Edited April 7 by Chaos Theory

[SG429]

1 hour ago, grawlix said:

Rick and Chelsea.   This storyline was so clunky.

Hotel Owner Lady knew he was a guest at TWL. Why didn't she call the hotel after Rick assaulted her husband? She certainly seems like a powerful enough person to get things "taken care of."

[SlovakPrincess]

6 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I would really like to meet the person who wouldn’t take 5 million dollars to not tell the police the location of  a guy who may have possibly murdered a person you knew for a week.  I would get it if we’re actually friends but Belinda and Tonya knew each other for a week,  Greg is a dangerous guy,  and there is zero evidence that the Thailand police would have done much before Greg went to another country.    I absolutely would have taken that kind of money.   That kind of money would change my life and I wouldn’t look back.

The fact that he’s willing to pay you 5 million means he did in fact murder her and now you’re morally complicit in the cover up whether they can pin a specific crime on you or not.  

[ItCouldBeWorse]

12 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Any guesses on what country might be featured next?

Australia?

Since Mike White supposedly doesn't like the cold, and we've already "done" the Mediterranean and Asia, I predict it's either South/Central America or Australia/New Zealand.  Africa is also a possibility; can you imagine if he got into all the economic and racial divides in South Africa?

[txhorns79]

1 hour ago, ahpny said:

Just because you exchange money with someone is not proof of an illicit purpose or knowledge of the crime. Suspicion yes, but proving a crime requires more.

Yes, I already noted some of the questions Belinda could be asked, and it would be interesting to see how she would try to explain that deposit in a way that didn't fall apart under further investigation.  But going to my original point, Belinda's own actions certainly put her at risk to have the money seized and potential criminal charges, and that is likely what Greg is counting on to help keep her quiet. 

20 minutes ago, SG429 said:

Why didn't she call the hotel after Rick assaulted her husband? She certainly seems like a powerful enough person to get things "taken care of."

I did find it weird that Rick didn't get he and Chelsea out of the hotel as quickly as possible.  I'm surprised he thought he'd just be able to leave the place without issue.

[Dminches]

3 hours ago, slowpoked said:

That’s why I felt that Lochlan coming back from the dead is such a copout. His death would have jolted that family, really give them the comeuppance they deserve. Instead, the so-called genius storyteller of satirizing white people bails them out with a weak “we’re going to get through this together as a family.” And with all of that posturing from Victoria the entire season about how she can’t afford to live an uncomfortable life anymore, this is the one time where she has nothing to say at all?!?! Color me unimpressed. Would have been more satisfying if she had jumped off that boat right at that moment.

Sorry, but no family "deserves" to have one of its children die (unless they caused equal harm to another family). Maybe Tim deserves to go to jail and the others deserve to lose ill-gotten money, but to suggest losing a child is punishment shows a lack of understanding of what that does to a parent. There is nothing more horrible than that. 

Edited April 7 by Dminches

[CarpeFelis]

5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The only stories that really went anywhere were Belinda's, Gaitok's and Rick's. And Rick's felt especially unsatisfactory. We never learned why he thought that guy killed his father

He specifically said at some point that his mother had told him Jim killed his father. Either to Frank, Chelsea, or both, I don’t recall.

ETA: Zion is not as smart as he thinks. Mr. Genius Baller MBA should have thought to open a Swiss bank account or one in the Caymans for Greg to deposit the money into.

And Belinda is not nearly as rich as she thinks she is. The IRS will take a sizable chunk of that money because it was deposited into her US account. It’s only “retire and never work again” money if you invest it wisely and are considerably older than Belinda, who is maybe mid-40s? She could be around for another 50 years if she stays healthy. And you just know she’s gonna start blowing that money like a lottery winner.

Edited April 7 by CarpeFelis

[peeayebee]

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

I may have missed it. But I don’t think it was Chelsea because her body didn’t float far enough. But it was just weird to show that in the first episode and then not revisiting it. At least have Zion see it’s not his mom and then feel a sense of relief.

I did just rewatch that E1 opener. You don't see much of the body, mainly the head with dark hair. It makes more sense that it's a bodyguard. Plus, when Zion waded into the water toward the statue, a guy (or two?) run past on the path. That was probably the bodyguards chasing the assailant (Rick), which we saw in this ep. 

1 hour ago, aghst said:

Did Hollinger have other children or he just have low opinion of Rick?  He just wanted to taunt Rick?  Because he had no interest in reconciling?

In the previous ep Rick asked him if he had any children, and Jim said he had two daughters.

Sounds like Rick's parents had a terrible relationship and were terrible people. Why did Gloria tell Rick this man killed Rick's father? I'll guess that Jim left her (maybe because she was a drug addict, alcoholic, and possibly did sleep around), she hated him and so lied to Rick. This is what Jim said to Rick at breakfast:

"I remember your mother. I knew she was a drunk and slut. Didn't know she was a liar too. Wanted you to think your father was some kind of great man. She told you a fairy tale, kid. Your father was no saint. You didn't miss out on much. And that's the fucking truth…. What? You're going to try to kill me now? (shows him gun in holster) I don't think so."

So he acknowledges that he isn't a good man. Maybe if Rick hadn't been so abusive to him when they first met, Jim would have told him that he was his father but didn't know Rick existed.

Quote

Lochy isn't religious but when he floated towards the afterlife, it was the silhouettes  of 4 monks peering down at him as he was rising to the surface of the water?

I don't find that odd. He had spent the night at the monastery. When he was near death in the water, I think his mind conflated thoughts of his family looking at him with the monks he saw at the monastery.

 

48 minutes ago, SG429 said:

Hotel Owner Lady knew he was a guest at TWL. Why didn't she call the hotel after Rick assaulted her husband? She certainly seems like a powerful enough person to get things "taken care of."

Maybe Jim told her to let it go. Maybe he figured Rick had gotten it out of his system -- which was true -- so he told his wife not to bother. But then he saw Rick and couldn't resist getting back at him with his own truth-bomb. Of course he also brought a gun... just in case.