S03.E10: Opening Night

[Corgi-ears]

11 hours ago, Megras said:

But it wasn't her show. It was Cliff's first big show, and how would it look if Mummy-dearest stepped in to save the day somewhat publicly. He'd never produce again.

Wouldn't he? It's not as if we live in a world that frowns on nepotism.

[Affogato]

10 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

That didn't really make sense to me though....musicals can run for months, sometimes years. Why would a Grey's Anatomy spin off be willing to wait that long for some unknown?

Because Grey's anatomy has gone on forever ?

[peeayebee]

9 hours ago, SomeTameGazelle said:

At one point she said she was staying with Theo Dimas.

I thought she said she was staying with Tobert.

[Sakura12]

Mabel said she was staying with Theo.

This season while it has some fun bits was kind of meh. For me I think the characters had more of a connection to the murder victims Tim Kono and Bunny, so it made it more interesting for them to solve it. Ben was just some a hole Actor that they knew of. 

With it being Sazz next season, hopefully they can bring the magic back. 

[Enigma X]

I really enjoyed the ending and am so glad they did not go with something that would have stretched where we were being led throughout the season that didn't make any sense for the mere fact to shock the audience. Even though it was guessed, it was still satisfying.

I am glad we are getting a season 4.

[cardigirl]

Upon re-watch, I have to say that I loved Donna and Cliff this season, they were played to perfection by Linda Emond and Wesley Taylor and I know that Paul Rudd and Meryl Streep are their competition for nominations for guest artists in a comedy, but I think they deserve consideration. 

Perhaps we can get a glimpse of them in season 4 (not likely) serving time together. 

Gonna miss this show. A year is a long wait. 

[Ohiopirate02]

31 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I really enjoyed the ending and am so glad they did not go with something that would have stretched where we were being led throughout the season that didn't make any sense for the mere fact to shock the audience. Even though it was guessed, it was still satisfying.

I am glad we are getting a season 4.

Yes.  I did not mind a straightforward mystery because it was well-written and there were clues sprinkled throughout the season.  And good writers change things up.  Last season had a twist, no need to repeat.

[Suzn]

I was underwhelmed by the finale, but I love this show and the characters so much that it just brought my rating down from 11 to 10.  The solving of the mystery is less important to me than the rest; I just want to see the trio together bouncing off each other.  It's not just them though because other characters add so much.  I adore Howard and had hoped he was going to get his shot on the stage. He does little bits that I notice - at the stage call, he did a little curtsy.

Amazing that on top of all that they bring in Meryl Streep, Paul Rudd and Matthew Broderick and give them so much to do.

This season was a little uneven with the trio having so much going on individually, but the musical and wonderful songs made up for that.  I would like to see the whole musical!  I was stunned by the songs.

[SomeTameGazelle]

3 hours ago, peeayebee said:

I thought she said she was staying with Tobert.

In episode 8 (Sitzprobe) she definitely told Charles and Oliver that she was crashing with Theo and when Charles asked if that meant things were not OK with "Toblerone" she assured him they were fine. If she moved in with Tobert after that I missed it.

Edited October 5, 2023 by SomeTameGazelle
Title

[nachomama]

I had a laugh on myself with a wild guess that Matthew Broderick would be the murderer. I’m looking at the shiny Constable jacket and wondering how far fetched any of the death rattle costumes etc are compared to real productions. Yes confused for a second why Ben was singing with Loretta and the figured it out. I FEEL 58 AGAIN. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by nachomama

[Snazzy Daisy]

Only Murders in the Building | "Creatures of the Night" Music Video | Hulu

 

Only Murders in the Building | "For the Sake of a Child" Music Video | Hulu

[Bill1978]

Paul Rudd goofing around right at the end of the performance of ;For the Sake of a Child' made me burst out in laughter.

 

Great to see the complete uninterrupted performances of these two numbers, especially 'Creature of the Night'. Only problem is that the two clips make me wish this was a real production even more.

[shapeshifter]

Now that the season has concluded, and all the murder mysteries for the season have been solved, what are some key moments or characters that we should make note of for the next PrimeTimer Awards, such as:

• Aw Yessss!: Favorite Scripted Or Reality TV Moment Of The Year: 
• Idiot Stick: Dumbest Character Moment
• Best stunt
• Shocking plot twist
• Did That Just Happen?!: Biggest WTF Moment From A Scripted Or Reality Show: 
• Whaaaat? Are You Effing Kidding Me: Biggest Plot Letdown: 
• Beyond Honorable Mention: Favorite Character Who Doesn't Get Enough Screentime
• LMFAO: Funniest Scene From A Scripted Show 
• Straight Off The Runway: Character With Best Wardrobe 
• Best episode title (maybe “Grab Your Hankies”?)*
• Best wardrobe in a show*
• Best lines*

————

*I may have made these up as possible new categories 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 10/3/2023 at 10:21 AM, peeayebee said:

I wish it had been a complete surprise, that Donna only thought she was protecting Cliff when she confessed.

On 10/3/2023 at 2:22 PM, shapeshifter said:

But, to me, that would have stolen the glory of Loretta’s same selfless act.

Exactly.

On 10/3/2023 at 7:48 PM, Frost said:

I sure hope Loretta doesn't bail on the play after one performance!  She should stay for at least a couple of months.

Is the play still continuing?  With both producers under arrest (and Jonathan given another chance as the lead?) I figured that opening night, despite its success, would also be closing night.

[Athena]

36 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Is the play still continuing?  With both producers under arrest (and Jonathan given another chance as the lead?) I figured that opening night, despite its success, would also be closing night.

If anything the success of the show and the publicity around the arrests may boost sales. Another producer will step in to fill the gap because the show has potential to be a hit. Donna is not a flight risk so she may be able to transition things after she gets bail.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

36 minutes ago, Athena said:

If anything the success of the show and the publicity around the arrests may boost sales. Another producer will step in to fill the gap because the show has potential to be a hit. Donna is not a flight risk so she may be able to transition things after she gets bail.

Hopefully Johnathan will be able to handle the pressure (unless Oliver intends to keep the role.)

[DoctorAtomic]

2 hours ago, Athena said:

Another producer will step in to fill the gap because the show has potential to be a hit.

With Oliver's ego; he'll be the producer now too. 

[Athena]

1 hour ago, DoctorAtomic said:

With Oliver's ego; he'll be the producer now too. 

Yes I thought that too but Oliver had financial troubles. I don't think he has the capital or capability to execute the business part of being a producer.

[Dobian]

On 10/5/2023 at 2:05 PM, Bill1978 said:

Paul Rudd goofing around right at the end of the performance of ;For the Sake of a Child' made me burst out in laughter.

Great to see the complete uninterrupted performances of these two numbers, especially 'Creature of the Night'. Only problem is that the two clips make me wish this was a real production even more.

Methinks Martin and Short will team up and write the actual Broadway play, Death Rattle Dazzle, of course starring Streep, Rudd, and Broderick!

[paigow]

On 10/5/2023 at 6:35 PM, Athena said:

Another producer will step in to fill the gap because the show has potential to be a hit. 

Mel Brooks

[MisterGlass]

I was sad Jonathan didn't get his big moment, so I would like to think that he got another in-world chance to perform.

I googled the job description of Broadway producer and came across this video from several years ago of producer Stacey Mindich.  She mentions Schmackary's at 3:20.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, MisterGlass said:

I was sad Jonathan didn't get his big moment, so I would like to think that he got another in-world chance to perform.

I googled the job description of Broadway producer and came across this video from several years ago of producer Stacey Mindich.  She mentions Schmackary's at 3:20.

😮 Wow!

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…I have seen a good cookie from Schmackary's work wonders on a hungry starving artist, in need of attention, a moment, a pat on the back, a "keep going," "sorry that song didn't go over well," sorry we cut that passage in previews. 

And I think that you know, just because I come to the world as a mother, I come to producing as a mother…

https://youtu.be/PhQnvA-telo?si=_n1BBb0xLITINlBE&t=191

 

 

[Emily Thrace]

On 10/3/2023 at 2:30 PM, cardigirl said:

Find the whole review here

The reviewer says it better than I could, and sounds like he's been reading my mind.  🧐

Also, I've read people thinking that Steve Martin wants out, but he's said that after this project, he's pretty sure he wouldn't want to do anything else. Not that he's tired of OMITB, or ready to quit it. 

I think Steve Martin is 78 so the show will continue for as long as he wants to do it. I also think that since Steve Martin is 78 TPTB  are hedging thier bets on how long he will be able to do it. It's not so much that Steve Martin doesn't want to do the show it's just everyone involved recognizes that he he could quite easily be forced into retirement. So I suspect renewal in this case came down to Steve Martin feeling like he had another season in him. (And possibly his doctor decarlaring him fit)

[Yeah No]

I'm just catching up on this thread and see how I'm far from alone in being a little disappointed in the ending this season.  I really didn't think the show was going to go for the obvious choices, but I understand now how they wanted to make it "solvable" for the audience considering how the previous two seasons didn't make that so easy (although I personally had no problem with it).  I get that, but I think they may have neglected to consider that some of their audience expected there to be another twist at the end like there was in previous seasons.  And we also wanted it to be more interesting, too.  The motive was a little weak both in terms of believability and murderous intent so I think that also took away from it.  If someone (like Tobert) had been pulled out of a hat at the 11th hour with a really good motive I'd have probably preferred that over this.  And even if Loretta was the "double twist" at the end that would actually have made more sense (although I like the fact that we may not have seen the end of her yet).  Oh well, whatever.  I still love this show.  I'm glad I never thought it was supposed to end after 3 seasons or I'd have been disappointed if that happened.  I'm thrilled to learn it's coming back anyway although I really had no doubt of that.

Also, I don't think it should be forgotten that the only real murder this season was Sazz even if they're going to spend next season solving it.  I agree with those that like it when the trio is personally acquainted with the victim somehow.  And we already have suspects.  Jan of course, but also Joy.  And of course, Scott Bakula, LOL.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Also, I don't think it should be forgotten that the only real murder this season was Sazz

Unless it was some kids in an opposite building randomly shooting a weapon they discovered. 

In which case TPTB should seriously consider re-titling the show as:
Only Manslaughter In The Building

[Blakeston]

On 10/5/2023 at 10:55 AM, cardigirl said:

Upon re-watch, I have to say that I loved Donna and Cliff this season, they were played to perfection by Linda Emond and Wesley Taylor and I know that Paul Rudd and Meryl Streep are their competition for nominations for guest artists in a comedy, but I think they deserve consideration. 

Actors aren't eligible for the guest acting Emmys if they appeared in more than 50% of a season's episodes. So all of them would be eligible for the supporting categories.

[Affogato]

9 hours ago, Yeah No said:

 

Also, I don't think it should be forgotten that the only real murder this season was Sazz even if they're going to spend next season solving it.  I agree with those that like it when the trio is personally acquainted with the victim somehow.  And we already have suspects.  Jan of course, but also Joy.  And of course, Scott Bakula, LOL.

And president McKinley, that evil fishy mastermind. He may not have been able to tell Sazz from Charles with the lights out, and sent a signal to his accomplices to shoot, with a flick of his reflective tail. Being flushed does things to a goldfish. It would do things to me.

 

[Affogato]

On 10/5/2023 at 12:28 PM, nachomama said:

I had a laugh on myself with a wild guess that Matthew Broderick would be the murderer. I’m looking at the shiny Constable jacket and wondering how far fetched any of the death rattle costumes etc are compared to real productions. Yes confused for a second why Ben was singing with Loretta and the figured it out. I FEEL 58 AGAIN. 

I wonder if Matthew Broderick is the murderer next season. Ousted by Charles, after all.

[Sesquipedalia]

I loved this season. For me, the play within a play story, along with the casting of Meryl Streep, brought it to a level beyond Season 2. 

The emotional roller coaster I went on in response to the ending:

• "Oh yay! This cliffhanger must mean there will be a Season 4!"
• "Oh no! It's so sad Sazz is dead. I love that character and will miss her."
• After reading comments here: "Oh yay! This means Sazz will be a big part of Season 4 in the form of flashbacks! More Jane Lynch than ever!"

Please show, if you are thinking about setting any significant portion of Season 4 in L.A., please do not. For me, 75% of this show's appeal is the NY City vibes. 

 

 

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, Sesquipedalia said:

Please show, if you are thinking about setting any significant portion of Season 4 in L.A., please do not. For me, 75% of this show's appeal is the NY City vibes. 

We do need one episode of our trio in LA just to see them out of their NYC environment and get a callback to Charles and Oliver driving in Season One.  

[Night Cheese]

I just finished my season 2 rewatch this morning and man, they really went a different way from the last scene of season 2 to season 3. Not that I would hold the writers to every detail of the cliffhanger of season 2, but that whole scene was drama that was never really fulfilled. Ben telling Oliver it's the "other guy" he has to worry about, Charles's "stay away from her" threat, and his "I know what you did" weren't really anything at all. Ultimately some minor tension with Ben and Loretta and Charles punching Ben, but a lot of nothingburgers. I remember everyone speculating that the "her" Charles wanted Ben to stay away from could have been Lucy, Lucy's mom (with Ben being the guy she married), Mabel, or even Joy, but ended up being just another person in the cast of their play. All of that makes me extra curious now how the Charles/Sazz death is going to play out. 

Oh, and I had completely forgotten the fake stabbing that Charles endured. So that's two finals in a row with a Charles death fake out. Funnily, I really thought Charles was dead in 2.10, but immediately knew there had to be some switch or fakeout with him being shot in this episode. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

19 hours ago, Sesquipedalia said:

Please show, if you are thinking about setting any significant portion of Season 4 in L.A., please do not. For me, 75% of this show's appeal is the NY City vibes. 

I co-sign (triple-sign?) this.

[Frost]

For a moment yesterday I was like, Yeah!  It's Tuesday!  Then I remembered, no new episode.  😭😭

[cardigirl]

5 hours ago, Frost said:

For a moment yesterday I was like, Yeah!  It's Tuesday!  Then I remembered, no new episode.  😭😭

Same. 😭

[paramitch]

Okay, I was wrong. I was a grumpy Gus all season and I am here to eat my delicious serving of crow (No wait, I love crows! Just assume I am eating my words. My many, many words...).

So -- I was super-critical of the first half of this season, and honestly, it did feel very uneven, forced, and false to me. I was irritated by the "Joy is suddenly an insane person" stuff, and I missed our trio and the building as central to the story.

BUT -- the past 3-4 episodes were terrific, and I thoroughly enjoyed the finale. I just felt like a lot of the early season was sort of joyless and weakly written, while the last run of episodes through the finale were genuinely charming, strong, and well written and performed.

I also admit that a major factor for me was just letting go of "Broadway reality" and going with the "this is fantasy Broadway" -- and you know what? It worked.

So I had to succumb. I mean, I had to give in. This entire season has been a visible love letter to Broadway and theatre, and this finale? I thought it was just wonderful. 

I loved everything we saw of Death Rattle Dazzle, it was so much fun, the songs were awesome (yes, I have gotten over asking how Oliver remotely wrote those things), it was beautifully performed by everyone, and I even got a sense of the story involved. I loved Oliver going on as the leading man (so lovely to see Short absolutely kill it bringing out those awesome musical theatre chops), loved the revelations of the producer and her son being responsible -- and the compassion and attention given their stories, which I always love about this show. I mean, I'm not Dexter over here, but I like that the murderers are treated as whole human beings and not as sociopaths, because that's much more realistic.

I like the season much more now overall when viewed as a whole. The finale really brought home that this season was of course about a love of the theatre, but it is also I think about legacy, which hit me really hard in the finale as someone with a chronic illness with a shorter future (it's okay, not being morbid). It was moving to see the gentleness of the mother saving her son in those last moments, and this was balanced by so many laugh-out-loud moments. Loretta and her son's revelations were also very moving -- my one TINY complaint is that she never said the words I AM YOUR MOTHER and I kept going, "PLEASE SAY IT, WHAT IF HE THINKS SOMETHING ELSE?!" But that's me.

My only very minor complaint is that I still feel the building could have been better tied into the story, and Mabel's romance with Tobert seriously felt like someone forgot about him for the past 3 episodes when he would've been an interesting potential red herring. I still think Ben Glenroy was underdeveloped, but I found the finale a moving little insight into his narcissism and loneliness, and I thought Paul Rudd did a great job on everything there -- I was really moved when he stayed up all night to make the handkerchiefs, and especially at his phone call to his sewing-lady friends.

And I pretty much liked where everyone's romantic and non-romantic endings left them. Looks like L.A. next season? (I have to think Charles's comment about L.A. was an inside nod to Martin's lovely if flawed L.A. Story). And the moment in Charles's apartment had me catching my breath -- SAZZ! I was so sad, but it also made me laugh because there was something so calm and funny and Sazzlike about how she handled it. Like, "Dammit, I'm murdered, but while I lie here I will make sure to do my part..."

The most important question: Does this mean next season's musical will be Death Rattle Sazzle?

(Sorry, I'll see myself out...)

[Blakeston]

On 10/13/2023 at 10:35 AM, paramitch said:

Loretta and her son's revelations were also very moving -- my one TINY complaint is that she never said the words I AM YOUR MOTHER and I kept going, "PLEASE SAY IT, WHAT IF HE THINKS SOMETHING ELSE?!" But that's me.

I'm on the same page as you here. Even if she was 100% certain that he understood, you'd think she'd want to call him her son.

For that reason, I felt like the scene never fully shot its load (for lack of a better metaphor).

[shapeshifter]

On 10/13/2023 at 10:35 AM, paramitch said:

Loretta and her son's revelations were also very moving -- my one TINY complaint is that she never said the words I AM YOUR MOTHER and I kept going, "PLEASE SAY IT, WHAT IF HE THINKS SOMETHING ELSE?!" But that's me.

7 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I'm on the same page as you here. Even if she was 100% certain that he understood, you'd think she'd want to call him her son.

For that reason, I felt like the scene never fully shot its load (for lack of a better metaphor).

Huh. I missed that we never heard a declaration of her being his mother.
But I never re-watched the finale.
Still, maybe the writers wanted to rise to the challenge of conveying it rather than saying it?
The opposite of Darth Vader's "I am your father"?

Unless we will meet the characters again in the future? 

 

[chaifan]

I have spent the last 2 weeks on vacation in a country where my Hulu subscription doesn't work, and have been desperately avoiding spoilers.  Finally was able to watch the finale last night, and it did not disappoint.

I was also thinking in the last few episodes this was a Donna/Cliff were the murderers, and that Donna's illness was going to play into that.  I think Donna was at the courtroom to stop Loretta's false confession, but the trio beat her to it.  I liked that Cliff stood up for himself with Ben, even if it accidentally resulted in Ben's death. 

Here's what I don't understand about Ben's death scene...  we know our trio was in that elevator just after Ben's death.  He must have already fallen onto the top of the elevator car, or they would have heard it, there was a crack that allowed the blood to drip onto Charles' hat.  If the elevator was working, why was it taped off at the penthouse level?  (And why just tape?  Why didn't they close the exterior doors???) 

My one nitpicky issue is that Donna wanting to just make Ben sick to delay the premiere makes no sense as Jonathan was there as his understudy.  Just as Oliver took over for Jonathan, Jonathan would have taken over for Ben if he had only gotten sick.  Ben "dying" on stage is what it took for the show to be cancelled. 

But yeah, I loved this season.  Great cast, fun plot line with the play/musical, and I was actually ok with they first few episodes keeping our trio apart, because it made us realize just how much we miss seeing them together.

I have to wonder if a different ending was planned, before they knew a 4th season was approved?  One in which Mabel (and maybe Loretta) does end up in LA, giving a plausible reason for breaking up the gang.  I could see how this was the original intent, and once they were given the green light for a 4th season, they altered the ending.

 

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, chaifan said:

My one nitpicky issue is that Donna wanting to just make Ben sick to delay the premiere makes no sense as Jonathan was there as his understudy.  Just as Oliver took over for Jonathan, Jonathan would have taken over for Ben if he had only gotten sick.  Ben "dying" on stage is what it took for the show to be cancelled. 

 

Maybe her point was that she wanted the opening to have the understudy so it would be better? Does that make no sense--I haven't thought it through.

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Maybe her point was that she wanted the opening to have the understudy so it would be better? Does that make no sense--I haven't thought it through.

I don't think so...  she saw the review, which was that the whole play was a stinker, not just Ben.  I got the impression Donna wanted to stop opening night as a whole, not just put Ben out of commission. 

To be honest, I'm so in love with this show, things like this don't really bother me that much.  I've said it before - I'd watch a show about Mabel, Oliver and Charles sitting around doing the daily Wordle and just chatting about inane things for an hour. 

 

[Suzn]

18 hours ago, chaifan said:

I don't think so...  she saw the review, which was that the whole play was a stinker, not just Ben.  I got the impression Donna wanted to stop opening night as a whole, not just put Ben out of commission. 

To be honest, I'm so in love with this show, things like this don't really bother me that much.  I've said it before - I'd watch a show about Mabel, Oliver and Charles sitting around doing the daily Wordle and just chatting about inane things for an hour. 

 

That's exactly how I feel about this show.  I'm not as picky as I usually am just because I want to spend time with these people and throw in Howard.

[Athena]

1 hour ago, Suzn said:

That's exactly how I feel about this show.  I'm not as picky as I usually am just because I want to spend time with these people and throw in Howard.

For me, it's the trio plus occasional dose of Uma. I enjoyed her episode this season because Hoffman gave that character emotional depth.

When Matthew Broderick tells her "You're alot of fun," in this ep, I didn't think he was acting.

[Suzn]

8 minutes ago, Athena said:

For me, it's the trio plus occasional dose of Uma. I enjoyed her episode this season because Hoffman gave that character emotional depth.

When Matthew Broderick tells her "You're alot of fun," in this ep, I didn't think he was acting.

Oh yes, I enjoyed Uma too!

[aradia22]

Hooray! I had a lot of fun with how the season wrapped up. I'm glad neither Loretta nor Dickie were involved with the murders. And to my pleasant surprise, they've left the door open for Meryl Streep to return. I've just become so enamored of Oliver and Loretta as a couple, I didn't want it to end. 

They really had me for a moment thinking Howard would take the stage. But I should have known Oliver would take the chance to grab the spotlight. I do wonder if Jonathan will go back to the role in the real world of the show. Though, this show should have already been in previews (with people seeing Jonathan's performance). No way you just jump to opening night. 

Kudos to the person or people who have been suspicious of Cliff and Donna from the start. I still think Tobert was weird but whatever. It was somewhat anticlimactic but there was still plenty of drama getting the confession from Donna and then having Cliff threaten to kill himself. Linda and Wesley knocked their roles out of the park. 

Sazz being murdered at the end is an incredible set up for next season and a great way to use Jane Lynch this time since we'll obviously be learning more about Sazz's life in flashbacks and such. Are they staying in NY or going to LA? Half and half? Unclear at this point.

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Kudos to all of us who predicted that it was Donna who poisoned Ben, but Cliff who pushed him. This season was easier to predict than last season, but it was because this time we basically had all the clues. The only thing a lot of people guessed that ended up being wrong was Tobert being a witness to the murder and doing nothing.

I liked having a nice cozy mystery to play along with solving. Also, the gang never really seemed to be in peril from a murderer who was afraid of being caught or coming after them too. It allowed the show to actually focus on the theater stuff which was very fun for me. I agree Tobert lasted the longest as a red herring. If Charles was the intended target at the end of the episode, it seems like we'll be back to danger next season. I forget what happened with Rose Cooper and the painting. Is Charles' father still alive?

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I partially agree with you on Tobert, but to be honest his entire character was dressed and acted to make him as suspicious as can possibly be. I mean it seems he was added as "suspicious possible murder love interest ......" I forgive him somewhat though when I saw him in that hat. lol

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The only big twist was Tobert’s innocence. So, they hired Jesse Williams to play a pointless side character that lacks substance and plot development. He’s just there as a coat stand and a love interest who’s now moving away.

Yeah, it was a bit of a waste of his character since he was dangled as a red herring for so long. I could never get invested in him and Mabel (not that I think the actors have great chemistry anyway). Maybe one day Mabel will actual get a decent love interest (though they could always bring back Oscar). 

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I absolutely need tickets to Death Rattle Dazzle, it looks like possibly the greatest, most messy play on Broadway. [...]  I ended up actually feeling pretty sorry for Cliff, he's certainly the most sympathetic killer so far.

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I do wish that the elevator killer had been Tobert instead of Cliff, just because both mother and son going to jail (as one of them dies from cancer), is just really sad. 

Same. Honestly, it probably could do well at New World Stages. Though not this season. There are way too many shows competing for attention for the 2023-2024 season. And yeah, I hope Cliff resurfaces at some point. If Theo can do it, why not Cliff?

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Sazz knows the shooter... she is trying to write a code from an old Brazzos episode.

I'd love that. One time Charles' Brazzos memories could actually be useful 😄

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As an aside from the who-dun-it aspect of the finale, I just want to point out that Selena Gomez's opening night gown was absolutely stunning. 

Mabel's fashion is usually pretty good but OMG I want that dress. So shiny!

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I kept waiting for there to be another twist we didn’t see coming since when we found out last week that Donna killed for Cliff, that it was obvious he pushed Ben to his death to protect her… But he didn’t really? Ben was mean and it was just an accident? That’s a really weak “motive” and kind of took the oomph out of it. 

I think it was all of it. He wanted to stop Ben from calling the police to report the poisoning (so he was protecting his mom). Ben kept prodding at him and antagonizing him. And then in the heat of the moment, the shoving turned into a murder.

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Oliver and his unwillingness to subscribe. So relatable!

I also refuse to subscribe to the NYT. 

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I wasn't crazy about this resolution. I despise the "they only meant to shove them, not kili them" resolution that so many mysteries resort to. (There were so many damned episodes of Cold Case that ended that way ::grumble::.) I've never found those resolutions particularly satisfying. And they've already done it on this show, wiith Mabel's friend dying the same way!

lol, I've been watching a lot of Cold Case. So many "heat of the moment" murders where someone's ego is wounded. 

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Having the anticlimactic reveal (that Jesse Williams was just a coat rack after all)  is a bit of a kudo to Jesse Williams in that it’s an acknowledgment that he is an important enough actor and a hot enough actor to work as a red herring on an Elite TV streaming series that is already chock full of celebs.

I don't know how many more seasons we'll get but Meryl and Jesse this season prove that anything is possible with this show. You don't have the Law & Order SVU thing where the famous guest star is definitely guilty and they have the pull to get big actors for more than cameos. It's exciting!

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That didn't really make sense to me though....musicals can run for months, sometimes years. Why would a Grey's Anatomy spin off be willing to wait that long for some unknown?

You can have a year-long contract that gets renegotiated if the show runs for that long. I agree it doesn't make the most sense but I can believe she would still have job offers after a couple months. 

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For me, it's the trio plus occasional dose of Uma. I enjoyed her episode this season because Hoffman gave that character emotional depth.

I think they made good use of Uma this season but I can only take her in small doses.