S02.E04: Alive!

[Surrealist]

On 7/6/2023 at 12:53 PM, zamp33 said:

And I know I have asked this before - but what does Che see in or want from Miranda? She told Miranda over and over she did not want a traditional relationship. 

 

I was wondering if it's because Che is Miranda's first non-hetero sexual experience. Maybe it's an ego boost (of some sort) for them?

Edited July 8, 2023 by Surrealist

[amarante]

Putting aside that Brady should be at least 22 based on his being born in Season 4.

Are kids really that emotionally dependent on their parents. When I was a kid you didn't call your parents if you broke up with your girlfriend or boyfriend. Your friends were your emotional support.

You called your parents if you ran out of money for some reason OR if you were arrested. The arrest part happened to me on my trip to California at 18 - jailed in the Monterey County Jail for an illegal campsite :-). My parents thought my friend and I were going to be sent to a chain gang so they hired an attorney who negotiated our not guilty plea and we fled Monterey County on the plane for which tickets had been purchased with money wired to us - predated modern technology so Western Union was how you helped stranded kids. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by amarante

[Rebecca berkowit]

On 7/7/2023 at 1:06 PM, heatherchandler said:

Such an insult.  And why say it like that?  Like she’s embarrassed that she was being a good mom?  Wtf

This is something that perhaps someone would say, some character who had spent her life being a boring mom and not fulfilling her own desires, etc. But Miranda is not that character.  It’s like, the writers wanted to tell that story and so they gave it to Miranda.  Or they needed a story for Miranda and didn’t get beyond “middle-aged wife and mom.”  Miranda is so much more than that.  Just another example of the paint-by-the-numbers writing on this show.  They find a situation, and then give it to a character.  

Edited July 8, 2023 by Rebecca berkowit

[Cosmocrush]

18 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

 They find a situation, and then give it to a character.  

Yep.  MPK even mentioned a situation he thought was hilarious during SATC days but it never got used so he used it on this episode:  the dry ejaculation thing.   I think there was a reason better heads prevailed during SATC.  Wish they were available for this show.

[yellowjacket]

7 hours ago, Surrealist said:

I'm 47 now. I survived a near fatal car wreck at 18, and then at 40, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. Finished treatment last February and am happy to still be alive.

I've been saying this for a while now too:  aging is a privilege. 

Carrie isn't young anymore. Her character is older than me. I'm glad she was put in her place by Gloria Steinem.

I had breast cancer (bad) at 51.  I'm 64 now.  Aging has definitely been a privilege, thank you for that❤️.

More statistics:  Candice Bergen is 77 and is a gift to all of us.  Gloria Steinem is almost 90 and is one of the greatest humans who has ever lived.  I guess I have to thank SJP for having this teevee show that gets those two goddesses to show up. 

I flat out f-forwarded through Charlotte and Miranda's stories.  Charlotte is cool and gorgeous but the story was silly, and Miranda is just....someone else.  I have known a lot of people in a lot of circumstances, but nothing like this.  People trans, people come out, people realize they were living the 'wrong' life.  But the Miranda character is agreeing to being abused after a lifetime of success, and the show is treating it like it's funny and she's being a poor sport.

Edited July 9, 2023 by yellowjacket

[WendyCR72]

On 7/7/2023 at 10:58 AM, Mrsmaul2021 said:

One of the most beautiful moments in SATC history, 

Well, we know how both MPK and Nixon feel about real history on Sex and The City, so of course, King must shit all over it in the hack writing, and Nixon plays fangirl and forgets how to act.

[RedHawk]

No one else has said it yet so I will: 

"Billy Dee, Billy Dee, Billy Dee!" 

I thought he was very good as LTW's dad. His scenes were a treat and the only part of that dinner party that was watchable. 

Gloria Steinem seemed comfortable in front of the camera. Her scenes were a treat. 

[Morrissey]

I'm very surprised that Cynthia Nixon, who is a producer on the show and who - if I'm not mistaken - pushed for the Che storyline, doesn't have an issue with being portrayed as a doormat. 

Now that Big is dead, Miranda has become the new Carrie. 

[Drogo]

Miranda, you’re the worst.

“Our unspoken agreement: Steve’s not allowed to punch me in the face and I’m not allowed to take up any more space than the couch.”

1) Steve would never put his hands on you and you know it.

2) Pretty sure we saw you walking around the whole house and Steve telling you good morning while he had the audacity to work out in his own house.

 3) I bet Steve’s pelvic floor is fucking amazing. 

[Dewey Decimate]

I didn't actually hate this ep as much as the majority here; I think it helps to have the lowest expectations possible! There's no way the Buzzword Chainsaw Massacre that is Miranda's character "arc" will ever be reversed, and the utter implausibility of the whole LTW plot is simply mind-boggling, so I'm just trying to enjoy the fashion, silliness, and one-liners. Charlotte and Harry's storyline cracked me up (though admitting that makes me feel like a 12 year old), and the brunch scene was a glimmer of the original series. Please, more Mario Cantone. To paraphrase Homer Simpson, "whenever Anthony's not on screen, all the other characters should be asking, "Where's Anthony?" (And if nu-Miranda has to return to her home planet, no complaints from me.)

[Hana Chan]

19 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

I'm very surprised that Cynthia Nixon, who is a producer on the show and who - if I'm not mistaken - pushed for the Che storyline, doesn't have an issue with being portrayed as a doormat. 

It's really disturbing because if this was a heterosexual relationship, the show would be pointing out all of the red flags that we're seeing. It is a toxic, borderline abusive situation where you have one partner putting themselves completely at the beck and call of the other and giving up all of the things that had previously been important in their lives. Miranda has thrown away her career and her family to be with Che, something that we know is very out of character with how she had been portrayed previously. The one thing that we know about Miranda is that she doesn't bend easily. It took so much thinking through her options before she decided to become a mother and to marry Steve. This impulsiveness that has so many irreversible consequences are what we expect from Carrie, not Miranda.

And Che is really proving themself to be the absolute worst partner we've seen any of these characters linked to. Even worse than Richard and Big, who both were up front about their failings to Carrie and Samantha. Che is constantly changing the rules and keeping Miranda completely off balance and cut off from those who might try to talk her out of these choices. Che resisted the idea of Miranda going back to help her son when he needed her and Miranda went scurrying back at the first moment she could. Che brings in their ex husband, who expressed that Che has a history of manipulating her partners into going past their boundaries in order to keep Che in their life. It was like Che was dangling him in front of Miranda as a warning that Miranda could easily be replaced in Che's life if she disagreed with Che's demands. Che seems to have an issue with consent, groping Miranda in her sleep (which brought up more uncomfortable feelings about how their sexual relationship first started). And Miranda is left feeling old and foolish when faced with Che's "daring" sexual history and seemed to think that raising her son was a waste of time in comparison.

At least Big and Richard tried to change in order to make their partners happy, compromising as much as they demanded compromise from Carrie and Samantha. With Che and Miranda, it's a one way street and the show keeps trying to paint this as an exciting, innovative story. Thankfully most viewers are not blind to just how toxic this relationship is at every level.

 

[Sailorgirl26]

13 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

It's really disturbing because if this was a heterosexual relationship, the show would be pointing out all of the red flags that we're seeing. It is a toxic, borderline abusive situation where you have one partner putting themselves completely at the beck and call of the other and giving up all of the things that had previously been important in their lives. Miranda has thrown away her career and her family to be with Che, something that we know is very out of character with how she had been portrayed previously. The one thing that we know about Miranda is that she doesn't bend easily. It took so much thinking through her options before she decided to become a mother and to marry Steve. This impulsiveness that has so many irreversible consequences are what we expect from Carrie, not Miranda.

And Che is really proving themself to be the absolute worst partner we've seen any of these characters linked to. Even worse than Richard and Big, who both were up front about their failings to Carrie and Samantha. Che is constantly changing the rules and keeping Miranda completely off balance and cut off from those who might try to talk her out of these choices. Che resisted the idea of Miranda going back to help her son when he needed her and Miranda went scurrying back at the first moment she could. Che brings in their ex husband, who expressed that Che has a history of manipulating her partners into going past their boundaries in order to keep Che in their life. It was like Che was dangling him in front of Miranda as a warning that Miranda could easily be replaced in Che's life if she disagreed with Che's demands. Che seems to have an issue with consent, groping Miranda in her sleep (which brought up more uncomfortable feelings about how their sexual relationship first started). And Miranda is left feeling old and foolish when faced with Che's "daring" sexual history and seemed to think that raising her son was a waste of time in comparison.

At least Big and Richard tried to change in order to make their partners happy, compromising as much as they demanded compromise from Carrie and Samantha. With Che and Miranda, it's a one way street and the show keeps trying to paint this as an exciting, innovative story. Thankfully most viewers are not blind to just how toxic this relationship is at every level.

 

And I wonder if MPK, SJP et al realize this is their out to save face. Even though we all know differently, they could say this was their intent all along -- to bring the show into today by showing a lesbian relationship with a nonbinary character and also highlighting that toxic relationships exist no matter the gender(s) of those involved. Miranda can get her shit together, realize that Che is bad for her, and find a healthy lesbian relationship that lets her be true to who she is, Che-Che Binks can disappear into the Cousin Oliver hall of fame, and we can all pretend Che was just a fever dream. 

Che is definitely the show killer because it really is much more enjoyable when I fast forward over any scene they are in. Even Miranda one-on-one with Carrie was okay (and "okay" is as good as this show is gonna get). But the second -- and I mean the SECOND -- Che appears, the hate level skyrockets. And it has nothing to do with their gender. It is JUST. A. BAD. CHARACTER. 

[yellowjacket]

Also, why are they showing super rich people with no support staff?  Charlotte doesn't clean that apartment herself.  They'd all have assistants to do things like arrange parties.  They'd have nannies.  The Met Gala (which they called the Met Ball for some reason) costs $35K for a ticket and then another $50k and up for the couture.  They'd hardly ever be in cabs, they'd take black cars.  See:  Succession.

[bluegirl147]

I will be shocked if this show acknowledges Miranda and Che are just not working.   As mentioned by someone on this thread every time there seems to be fractures in their relationship the next time we see them they act like everything is hunky dory.  I choose to believe that on some level Miranda knows Che is not right for her but doesn't want to admit she blew up her family for a mistake.  And I doubt Miranda is telling Carrie and Charlotte all the things we are seeing.  But that doesn't mean others don't see the reality that is Miranda and Che.   SJP seemed to play the scene at Che's apartment that she could feel something was off kilter. As much as Miranda wants to believe she is living in a rom com I'm pretty sure she isn't going to tell the aborted least sex threesome of all time story over brunch. 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by bluegirl147

[Hana Chan]

39 minutes ago, yellowjacket said:

Also, why are they showing super rich people with no support staff?  Charlotte doesn't clean that apartment herself.  They'd all have assistants to do things like arrange parties.  They'd have nannies.  The Met Gala (which they called the Met Ball for some reason) costs $35K for a ticket and then another $50k and up for the couture.  They'd hardly ever be in cabs, they'd take black cars.  See:  Succession.

In all reality, with the exception of Carrie who was a minor celerity writer  before her marriage, I can't see any of these women getting invites to the gala. It's the single most coveted social event of the year and unless you are a very hot celerity, the only other way to score an invite is to be a major donor. Someone who donates tens of thousands of dollars (and not all big donors get invites). And not every invitee gets to bring their spouse. The guest list is very tightly controlled.

[Baltimore Betty]

30 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

I'm pretty sure she isn't going to tell the aborted least sex threesome of all time story over brunch.

Remember in the series Miranda was miffed at the others for not choosing her for their imaginary threesomes and she went as far as putting an ad in the paper for making a threesome, a couple picked her and she told them she had to make a call and ditched them...I think we know now that Miranda is not a threesome kinda girl.

[Cosmocrush]

2 hours ago, Sailorgirl26 said:

Miranda can get her shit together, realize that Che is bad for her, and find a healthy lesbian relationship that lets her be true to who she is, Che-Che Binks can disappear into the Cousin Oliver hall of fame, and we can all pretend Che was just a fever dream.

That’s exactly what I thought was happening last week when Miranda had her initials tattooed and went home; I thought she remembered who she was just in time.  Sadly that all disappeared this episode.

[WendyCR72]

Hi, all.

I have seen some posts that are still misgendering Che, using she/her rather than they/them. While it is not done maliciously, it is still incorrect.

So, please, if you are referring to anything involving Che, double check before you post. Or warnings could happen.

Thanks.

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, Hana Chan said:

In all reality, with the exception of Carrie who was a minor celerity writer  before her marriage, I can't see any of these women getting invites to the gala. It's the single most coveted social event of the year and unless you are a very hot celerity, the only other way to score an invite is to be a major donor. Someone who donates tens of thousands of dollars (and not all big donors get invites). And not every invitee gets to bring their spouse. The guest list is very tightly controlled.

Probably that's why they called it the Met Ball and not the Met Gala. It's this show's fantasy version of the Met Ball. I noted that at least two times one character told another "We're not going to be on the red carpet". They clarified that none of the women was important enough for that.

Maybe they hold the "Met Ball" on the same night in the basement for the "lesser" people who are still willing to pay huge money to walk to the Met, enter through the back door, and down below all the real action sashay around trying to impress each other. 

[RedHawk]

Ok, so another WTF moment in this ep was when Bitsy and Carrie were talking at Enid's party. Bitsy was talking up Big Dick Older Guy and said something about how of course he couldn't satisfy her like Bobby could. So Carrie says, "I always thought that Bobby was gay." Bitsy says that he was and that was why he "tried harder" to please her. WTF????

In the series I liked that everyone was surprised that Bobby and Bitsy got married and we never really learned if Bobby was gay, straight, or bisexual. Two people who loved each other got married. What they did or didn't do in the bedroom was not anyone's business. 

Now Bitsy says that he was this great lover even though he was gay. Why not say bisexual? Is the show still pretending bisexual people don't really exist or are weird? Would a gay man have that much interest in sex with a woman? Some gay men I have known would say "no way" to sex with a woman, a couple had sex with women when they weren't sure they were gay but then stopped when they came out because they were much more strongly attracted to men. I have known men (and women) who were sexually attracted to both men and women -- bisexual.

Couldn't Bitsy tell Carrie, "Oh with me my Bobby was very bisexual!" It's not like Bobby was a 28-year-old rent boy Bitsy was financially supporting. The "that's why he tried harder" remark made no sense.

Edited July 10, 2023 by RedHawk
Fix double word error: "my my" to "me my"

[WendyCR72]

50 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Ok, so another WTF moment in this ep was when Bitsy and Carrie were talking at Enid's party. Bitsy was talking up Big Dick Older Guy and said something about how of course he couldn't satisfy her like Bobby could. So Carrie says, "I always thought that Bobby was gay." Bitsy says that he was and that was why he "tried harder" to please her. WTF????

In the series I liked that everyone was surprised that Bobby and Bitsy got married and we never really learned if Bobby was gay, straight, or bisexual. Two people who loved each other got married. What they did or didn't do in the bedroom was not anyone's business. 

Now Bitsy says that he was this great lover even though he was gay. Why not say bisexual? Is the show still pretending bisexual people don't really exist or are weird? Would a gay man have that much interest in sex with a woman? Some gay men I have known would say "no way" to sex with a woman, a couple had sex with women when they weren't sure they were gay but then stopped when they came out because they were much more strongly attracted to men. I have known men (and women) who were sexually attracted to both men and women -- bisexual.

Couldn't Bitsy tell Carrie, "Oh with my my Bobby was very bisexual!" It's not like Bobby was a 28-year-old rent boy Bitsy was financially supporting. The "that's why he tried harder" remark made no sense.

For a show (SATC, but AJLT is a continuation) that claimed to be so culturally attuned to sexuality and freedom to express such, it does stick out how bisexuality is/was treated as some sort of taboo label. And it makes no sense. I say this as a straight woman, but it's weird. Carrie sort of dismissing it in the original series, and now the strangeness with Bobby.

Like, what's the problem?

[Lethallyfab]

According to the original series, bisexuality doesn’t exist, it’s quote-unquote “just a pit stop on the way to Ricky Martin-ville” (per Miranda and I actually think that episode came out before Ricky did.).
 

I’m not saying that Sam’s relationship with Maria was ideal but I *do* find it funny that everyone demonstrated approximately zero interest in it and is now praising Che and Miranda.   

[ruby24]

So according to MIranda's comments at the table it seems to me the show is now going the route of her being a lesbian. So if she and Che break up (please god) we should expect her to now date women then? 

So it's just full on Cynthia Nixon we're watching now, not Miranda. 

I thought Brady was right in the therapy and Miranda's the one who should move out. Why does Steve have to leave when she's the one who destroyed their family?

[Rebecca berkowit]

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Ok, so another WTF moment in this ep was when Bitsy and Carrie were talking at Enid's party. Bitsy was talking up Big Dick Older Guy and said something about how of course he couldn't satisfy her like Bobby could. So Carrie says, "I always thought that Bobby was gay." Bitsy says that he was and that was why he "tried harder" to please her. WTF????

In the series I liked that everyone was surprised that Bobby and Bitsy got married and we never really learned if Bobby was gay, straight, or bisexual. Two people who loved each other got married. What they did or didn't do in the bedroom was not anyone's business. 

Now Bitsy says that he was this great lover even though he was gay. Why not say bisexual? Is the show still pretending bisexual people don't really exist or are weird? Would a gay man have that much interest in sex with a woman? Some gay men I have known would say "no way" to sex with a woman, a couple had sex with women when they weren't sure they were gay but then stopped when they came out because they were much more strongly attracted to men. I have known men (and women) who were sexually attracted to both men and women -- bisexual.

Couldn't Bitsy tell Carrie, "Oh with my my Bobby was very bisexual!" It's not like Bobby was a 28-year-old rent boy Bitsy was financially supporting. The "that's why he tried harder" remark made no sense.

I think they thought it would be funny, like a gay man would of course try harder.  It is funny, as a joke.  Not believable about a real person, though.  I doubt it would happen.  Unless Bobby was intensely closeted and wanted her to THINK he wasn’t gay, so that’s why he tried so hard.  But, she knew he was gay.  So, yeah, just another nonsensical pilot point in service of a half-assed joke somebody heard. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Rebecca berkowit

[Hana Chan]

57 minutes ago, Lethallyfab said:

I’m not saying that Sam’s relationship with Maria was ideal but I *do* find it funny that everyone demonstrated approximately zero interest in it and is now praising Che and Miranda.   

Of course it wasn't ideal, but Samantha seemed genuinely interested in Maria as a person, was attracted by her passionate personality and was willing to give their relationship (such as it was) a sincere go. She was the true "try-sexual" and ended it because she wasn't as invested as Maria was in their partnership (not because she wasn't sincerely attracted to Maria personally and physically).

And if I remember right, every single one of her friends - Miranda included - openly mocked Samantha over it. There was nothing coming from Miranda that maybe she might have the hots for Maria herself. But then, Maria was a very feminine woman and CN's interest seems to be aimed at women who are butch and non-gender conforming. If the show does end Miranda's inexplicable relationship with Che, there is no way they're gong to have her go back to dating men, nor will Miranda find herself interested in a feminine appearing woman.

[RedInk]

10 hours ago, Hana Chan said:

It's really disturbing because if this was a heterosexual relationship, the show would be pointing out all of the red flags that we're seeing. It is a toxic, borderline abusive situation where you have one partner putting themselves completely at the beck and call of the other and giving up all of the things that had previously been important in their lives. 

Except…and I want to agree with all of this because of the atrocious rewrite of Miranda…Che flat out said Miranda could not expect anything traditional. And she responded that she tried traditional, and it didn’t work for her. Miranda flew out to surprise Che, she wasn’t asked to go. And Miranda hasn’t had any talks about expectations at all. Miranda is just not acting like a 60-something, intelligent attorney with agency, which is what she is. She is acting like someone on the verge of a collapse, and it’s unclear if they’re writing her that way intentionally (because she’s breaking down) or if they’re writing an actual love story (and they’re insane). I just can’t put it all on Che, who really can’t know how Miranda is feeling about this because Miranda is expressing that she’s interested in all of it. It just doesn’t track because no one would behave this way. In real life, why would Che be even remotely interested in someone who would leave her family and life’s work for a relative stranger? 

LATE EDIT 😉: And I forgot to type this because they’ve really dropped her storyline, but the organic development of feelings for Miranda’s esteemed professor, who is a perfect match re: intelligence and humanitarian interests, would have been the way to go for about a million reasons. And why this sharp turn in writing is baffling us. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by RedInk

[RedDelicious]

I’m late to watching this episode but here are a few of my thoughts:

- I really hated how Enid was speaking s o  s l o w l y. I feel like it was a lame attempt to make her seem elderly when she’s really not. She’s freakin Enid. She even listed some of her major accomplishments.

- I also hated how once again there was a man conflict with Carrie and Enid and Carrie’s the Pop Tart with the implied upper hand. The writers need to keep Carrie out of that pond.

- I still would have told Enid to F right off with the ask for $100k.

- I really wish Mother Wexley wasn’t so abrasive and mean all the time. 

- Miranda looked like her old self but her soul is still in the possession of the aliens.

- I really wish Lexi hadn’t fallen out of that window in Season 6.

 

[Mellowyellow]

I enjoyed the episode (hehe just fast forwarded all the Miranda scenes) but found it infuriating that Carrie folded and gave the money to Enid. Why has she not grown out of this weird immature behaviour?

[heatherchandler]

15 hours ago, RedInk said:

LATE EDIT 😉: And I forgot to type this because they’ve really dropped her storyline, but the organic development of feelings for Miranda’s esteemed professor, who is a perfect match re: intelligence and humanitarian interests, would have been the way to go for about a million reasons. And why this sharp turn in writing is baffling us. 

What happened to the professor?  Is she just not on the show anymore?  It’s fine, since there was no need to add so many people in the first place.

Why is mother Wexley a mean, condescending asshole?

[Lola82]

16 hours ago, RedInk said:

Except…and I want to agree with all of this because of the atrocious rewrite of Miranda…Che flat out said Miranda could not expect anything traditional. And she responded that she tried traditional, and it didn’t work for her. Miranda flew out to surprise Che, she wasn’t asked to go. And Miranda hasn’t had any talks about expectations at all. Miranda is just not acting like a 60-something, intelligent attorney with agency, which is what she is. She is acting like someone on the verge of a collapse, and it’s unclear if they’re writing her that way intentionally (because she’s breaking down) or if they’re writing an actual love story (and they’re insane). I just can’t put it all on Che, who really can’t know how Miranda is feeling about this because Miranda is expressing that she’s interested in all of it. It just doesn’t track because no one would behave this way. In real life, why would Che be even remotely interested in someone who would leave her family and life’s work for a relative stranger? 

LATE EDIT 😉: And I forgot to type this because they’ve really dropped her storyline, but the organic development of feelings for Miranda’s esteemed professor, who is a perfect match re: intelligence and humanitarian interests, would have been the way to go for about a million reasons. And why this sharp turn in writing is baffling us. 

I agree with your whole post. Che is just living life, working on their career and Miranda is the one who’s gone off the deep end and turned herself inside out to fit into Che’s life. With better writers, this would be an interesting story to watch Miranda spiral out. They started an alcohol problem last season and that didn’t go anywhere. She goes to AA now and has no more struggles? Come on! This “love” story needs to crash and burn asap. 

[Hanahope]

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Why is mother Wexley a mean, condescending asshole?

she's a sorority girl who believed college is only for getting the mrs degree?

[John M]

On 7/9/2023 at 4:55 PM, RedHawk said:

Ok, so another WTF moment in this ep was when Bitsy and Carrie were talking at Enid's party. Bitsy was talking up Big Dick Older Guy and said something about how of course he couldn't satisfy her like Bobby could. So Carrie says, "I always thought that Bobby was gay." Bitsy says that he was and that was why he "tried harder" to please her. WTF????

In the series I liked that everyone was surprised that Bobby and Bitsy got married and we never really learned if Bobby was gay, straight, or bisexual. Two people who loved each other got married. What they did or didn't do in the bedroom was not anyone's business. 

Now Bitsy says that he was this great lover even though he was gay. Why not say bisexual? Is the show still pretending bisexual people don't really exist or are weird? Would a gay man have that much interest in sex with a woman? Some gay men I have known would say "no way" to sex with a woman, a couple had sex with women when they weren't sure they were gay but then stopped when they came out because they were much more strongly attracted to men. I have known men (and women) who were sexually attracted to both men and women -- bisexual.

Couldn't Bitsy tell Carrie, "Oh with me my Bobby was very bisexual!" It's not like Bobby was a 28-year-old rent boy Bitsy was financially supporting. The "that's why he tried harder" remark made no sense.

I consider myself 100% gay, married to another guy, no sexual attraction to women whatsoever. I've had sex with women before and while I consider it extremely unlikely that I would have sex with a woman again, it's not like I didn't not enjoy it. Also, I've had sex with a straight guy before, 100% have no reason to believe he is anything but 100% straight identified, we were at a party, had a couple of drinks but were absolutely sober enough to consent, started with some straight girl daring him to have sex with a guy, saying she would have sex with him if he had sex with one of the gay guys at the party, everyone was laughing about it, before I knew it things had escalated to, wait, all three us are actually willing to go through with this and we were having sex, girl kept her end of the deal and I quietly excused myself because it was very clear he was very much into having sex with her and very much not into it with me.

Anyways, I am so over this show, I don't understand anything that is happening. I mean, seriously, there is like zero story arc, I don't understand how any of the characters fit together, none of them have any chemistry with each other, I'm just watching completely two dimensional characters play dress up. 

edit: I originally wrote that post at work and want to expand a bit, it is incredibly common for 100% straight and gay identified people to engage in sexual relationships with both men and women and not consider themselves bisexual and assuming they must be gay or straight or bi identified is really prejudiced, sometimes to a really harmful degree.

I work in public health and around HIV, professionally, we absolutely do not use gay to define sexual relationships, we use MSM or Men who have Sex with Men. There is a statically significant portion of men at risk of HIV that consider themselves 100% heterosexual that occasionally or even regularly that have sex with other men, sometimes sex is just, sex. We don't assume that some 20 year old having sex with a their rich 85 year old partner must be a gerontophile or physically incapable of deriving pleasure from the sexual encounters.

And I would also note, of Bobby Fine's generation, it was actually not unheard of for even openly gay men to engage in sexual relationships with companionate opposite sex partners because of AIDS.

Edited July 11, 2023 by John M

[xls]

On 7/8/2023 at 8:37 PM, yellowjacket said:

I had breast cancer (bad) at 51.  I'm 64 now.  Aging has definitely been a privilege, thank you for that❤️.

More statistics:  Candice Bergen is 77 and is a gift to all of us.  Gloria Steinem is almost 90 and is one of the greatest humans who has ever lived.  I guess I have to thank SJP for having this teevee show that gets those two goddesses to show up. 

I flat out f-forwarded through Charlotte and Miranda's stories.  Charlotte is cool and gorgeous but the story was silly, and Miranda is just....someone else.  I have known a lot of people in a lot of circumstances, but nothing like this.  People trans, people come out, people realize they were living the 'wrong' life.  But the Miranda character is agreeing to being abused after a lifetime of success, and the show is treating it like it's funny and she's being a poor sport.

It was painful watching her on the outside of the 3 some, struggling to get a kiss! so sad 

go back to good old Steve!

[Alice Mudgarden]

On 7/9/2023 at 1:39 PM, Hana Chan said:

It is a toxic, borderline abusive situation where you have one partner putting themselves completely at the beck and call of the other and giving up all of the things that had previously been important in their lives. Miranda has thrown away her career and her family to be with Che, something that we know is very out of character with how she had been portrayed previously. The one thing that we know about Miranda is that she doesn't bend easily. It took so much thinking through her options before she decided to become a mother and to marry Steve. This impulsiveness that has so many irreversible consequences are what we expect from Carrie, not Miranda.

Miranda: I think you're making a mistake.

Carrie: Miranda, please.
Miranda: Carrie, you can't quit your column. It's who you are.
Carrie: No, it's not who I am, it's what I do. That's my column.
...
I think I'm gonna go home.

Miranda: What? I'm not allowed to have an opinion?
Carrie: You have an opinion. You've had it for quite some time.
Miranda: What are you gonna do over there without your job? Eat croissant?
Carrie: Why can't you be happy for me?
Miranda: I'm sorry but... I don't understand why you have to move away and give up your life.

- "Splat!" S6, E18

 

This pod person masquerading as Miranda is literally behaving in the exact opposite way real Miranda Hobbes has actually behaved in the past. The only difference here is that Pod Person Miranda isn't having this conversation with anyone, because the one person who'd give it to her is gone. Pod Person Miranda ruined her.

[heatherchandler]

11 hours ago, Hanahope said:

she's a sorority girl who believed college is only for getting the mrs degree?

I was a sorority girl and I’m not mean!

Why are they writing her to be a miserable, obnoxious pain-in-the-ass?  We get it, she’s judgmental. This is not entertaining!

[RedInk]

6 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I was a sorority girl and I’m not mean!

Why are they writing her to be a miserable, obnoxious pain-in-the-ass?  We get it, she’s judgmental. This is not entertaining!

Also a sorority girl; also not mean 😉

Are the younger Wexlers financially dependent on her? I can’t really tell. But you’re 100% correct that it’s not any fun to watch. Everyone on this show is a 2-dimensional cartoon. There will probably be some takedown that we’re all supposed to cheer, but we won’t care because we don’t like any of these people. 

[Drogo]

16 minutes ago, RedInk said:

Are the younger Wexlers financially dependent on her?

It's actually spelled   t-r-a-u-m-a   b-o-n-d-e-d. 

[Asp Burger]

On 7/6/2023 at 3:27 PM, Rebecca berkowit said:

Ever since I read the interview where CN discusses how she is the reason for the Miranda/Che hookup, and how it was supposed to be Nya, I have felt so sorry for the Nya actress.  She would’ve been so much more integrated with the show, now they don’t know what to do with her.  And Che would’ve been like Bobby Lee, just another quirky person at the podcast we would never see again once it was cancelled.  A minor character.  

I agree that Nya would have been a better partner in that story for Miranda, if MPK and Nixon were dead-set on doing it at all. But I don't think there's a version of reality in which Che would have been anything except in our faces for as long as there's an AJLT, even if the "X, Y and Me" subplot had wrapped up on the same schedule. MPK clearly loves him some Che (and Ramirez) and thinks what he's doing with the character is an important blow for progressivism and the opening of minds. He'd just have given Che a different love interest and put Che in the brunch rotation with Seema et al. We'd still be getting Che scenes to swell each episode to a sluggish 45 minutes. 

On 7/6/2023 at 9:17 PM, luna1122again said:

I love Candace Bergin and here I'm being ageist again but it's kind of hard to see what getting older has done to her and Billy Dee (Lando!)  When you were as beautiful as they were, it must be even harder to see the changes. But they're still working and active and stylish, so good on them. 

I do know what you mean. In these cases I was prepared, as I'd seen them in the last few years: Williams in the Star Wars movie (looking about like he does here) and Bergen in Let Them All Talk with Meryl Streep and Dianne Wiest (same). Objectively, they look great for the ages they are, but they were both so gorgeous in their sex-symbol heydays, and those images stay fixed in the mind...especially because they're not constantly appearing in new movies and shows anymore, so we are not getting the slow progression we get with someone like Streep. She's really never stopped being in high-visibility projects since she became a star 40-something years ago. 

Edited July 11, 2023 by Asp Burger

[Rebecca berkowit]

9 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I was a sorority girl and I’m not mean!

Why are they writing her to be a miserable, obnoxious pain-in-the-ass?  We get it, she’s judgmental. This is not entertaining!

That’s their idea of a plot.  A conflict.  Because they don’t know what else to do with Lisa.  Or any of the new characters.  They’ve been the most successful with Seema, probably because they are just writing her as if she’s Samantha.  Nya they’ve forgotten about entirely, and Lisa is in another show about a family.  

Edited July 11, 2023 by Rebecca berkowit

[Hanahope]

but were you sorority girls only interested in mrs degrees, or believed that is all college women are supposed to get?

[txhorns79]

On 7/11/2023 at 12:54 PM, Rebecca berkowit said:

They’ve been the most successful with Seema, probably because they are just writing her as if she’s Samantha.

I would disagree.  I think Seema has some Samantha-esque qualities, but she's fairly distinct as a character from Samantha.     

 

On 7/11/2023 at 12:34 AM, Alice Mudgarden said:

This pod person masquerading as Miranda is literally behaving in the exact opposite way real Miranda Hobbes has actually behaved in the past. The only difference here is that Pod Person Miranda isn't having this conversation with anyone, because the one person who'd give it to her is gone. Pod Person Miranda ruined her.

I mean, I think Miranda's fight with Carrie over moving to Paris was more about Miranda's fear of being without Carrie, than true concerns about Carrie's ability to make a life for herself in Paris.  Though, that fight was also 20 years ago.          

[millennium]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:00 PM, luna1122again said:

I haven't watched yet but I'd LOVE to have David Duchovny back! 

Oh no, I really wouldn't actually. No telling how they'd tell his story. He's probably still at the Club Med psychiatric hospital all these years. 

Even after all this time, his doctors are still trying to figure out what he saw in Carrie.

So happy I'm not watching this shitshow.

[Asp Burger]

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I think Seema has some Samantha-esque qualities, but she's fairly distinct as a character from Samantha. 

I agree. I think the nickname "Seemantha" is funny, and I get it (she's more like Samantha than the other new AJLT women and Che are), but Seema's vulnerability and sensitivity are closer to the surface than Samantha's were, for one thing. 

[Sweet-tea]

On 7/6/2023 at 2:18 PM, Baltimore Betty said:

I for one was surprised that Carrie did not delete that photo, I know I would have.

I thought it was gross. I've never understood the appeal of these type of pics. I find them offensive. I'd rather see the guy's face. 

This whole episode had me cringing. I couldn't fast-forward through the Che/Miranda/Che's ex bedroom scene fast enough. I didn't want to see Kristin and Harry having sex in any form. I didn't want to hear the women discussing Harry's bedroom issue. Didn't Charlotte used to be reserved about discussions like this? Or maybe it was Carrie?

It does remind me of SATC and how it was supposedly written for gay men. My women friends and I don't talk about stuff like this. If my husband was having performance problems, no way would I discuss it at a table with my girlfriends. But this is one of the things I never understood about SATC either. 

Sometimes this show is just too crude for me. 

I feel sorry for Steve. I wish he'd push back a little more. 

 

[Shermie]

Late to the party, but a few observations.

It’s too bad that so many FF through the Che scenes because the actor is so good. The character not so much. 

I enjoy the Charlotte and Harry scenes because it’s refreshing for a tv show to show a long-married couple still hot in love.

Agree with the stupidness of the party rsvp’s; I mean, I’ve planned lots of parties and you always check to see how many people are coming, even if it’s just for beer and pizza. Makes absolutely no sense.

I do think there’s merit in Carrie’s displeasure being lumped in with seniors with walkers; it’s a peeve of mine too. Seems like throughout life, there’s touchstones for different age groups, whether it’s makeup tips or relationship issues or physical changes. It’s always divided by decades, your 20s, your 30s, etc until you reach 60, then it’s always 60+. Like a 60 year old and an 85 year old have the same needs and lifestyle. There’s a local seniors group that’s 55+, which is ridiculous. I mean, me and my mother could literally join the same demographic group, and we have nothing in common. There’s a world of difference between an active, working, tech-savvy 60 year old and an 85 year old who is using a walker and doesn’t have a cell phone. And even that stereotype is disappearing. It was different when people only lived to 70, so all seniors were 60+, but now most people live to 85-90, so there are really two senior demographics that most media don’t acknowledge. So I’m with Carrie when she’s offended to be lumped in with slow-moving seniors with church lady perms.

[Sweet-tea]

I could see Carrie's point too, especially about Enid saying "people our age." I would've bristled if someone more than 15 years older than me implied we were the same age. 

[GiveMeSpace]

On 7/7/2023 at 9:18 AM, Lola82 said:

Here’s what I don’t understand. Kegels are for inside muscles so how was Harry able to feel them on Charlotte through her clothes? And he was surprised “wow it’s like a vice”, they have sex, wouldn’t he be feeling them then??

And I didn’t get the dr eating his protein bar. It was like a joke without a punchline. This isn’t a documentary, he doesn’t actually need to eat during the scene. Where’s the humor?

I need answers, this show frustrates me so much.

I wonder if it was meant to show how stressed doctors are right now? No time to eat because medical professionals are leaving medicine en masse like teachers. I don't know. That's all I got. 

[debbie311]

I seem to remember an old sitcom storyline where the husband forgot to mail the invitations to a party - a party that was held AT HOME. Ha ha, funny funny. I guess.

THIS anniversary party was being held in a very upscale restaurant in NYC. The catering/events person would undoubtedly contact the party giver to get an accurate count of who is attending a few days before the dinner.  They need to know how much food to prepare!  How many servers! It's kind of insulting the way they played this out, but I find that in many aspects of this series.

I wish Miranda had died instead of Big. They could have showed how they worked through their grief at the loss of their friend. Cynthia Nixon has ruined the show for me. Miranda is a hot mess.

[Litnit]

On 7/19/2023 at 10:19 AM, debbie311 said:

THIS anniversary party was being held in a very upscale restaurant in NYC. The catering/events person would undoubtedly contact the party giver to get an accurate count of who is attending a few days before the dinner.  They need to know how much food to prepare!  How many servers! It's kind of insulting the way they played this out, but I find that in many aspects of this series.

So I was just talking to my husband about this. First of all, I think we all knew there would be a screw up with the invitations after that anvil of a conversation thanking Herbert for taking over the invitations. Second of all, whoever mentioned Succession was spot on. Now, that show is in a whole other galaxy of leagues, BUT, it does show how they could build a funny storyline around party planning (Ken's birthday where he keeps being managed away from his most d-bag instincts) without being completely insuntingly stupid. Hiring a party planner is not out of reach for many people and it certainly would be SOP for this group. I think they're trying to keep them likeable and relatable by scrubbing away some aspects of their wealth, but it doesn't quite work because their wardrobes, apartments, and social lives don't match.

Also agree with everyone who mentioned the numerous red flags with the Miranda / Che / Lyle (?) threesome. No discussion ahead of time about what the parameters are, everyone's intoxicated, cheap humour of Miranda being excluded etc. 

Oh, and if Che and Lyle got married in Vegas, is that even really a legal marriage? I thought that was more for the fun aspect? 

[luna1122again]

10 minutes ago, Litnit said:

 

Oh, and if Che and Lyle got married in Vegas, is that even really a legal marriage? I thought that was more for the fun aspect? 

Lots of people get legally married in Vegas. My sis in law did, officiated by Elvis.  Batman.  Fun, but definitely legal. 

Edited July 20, 2023 by luna1122again
Batman and Elvis are not the same