S44.E13: Absolute Banger Season

[Tachi Rocinante]

I watched this in 20 minutes on Fast Forward until jury and then BamBam wins? WTaF?

His cutesy shtick was annoying as hell and shouldn't have won him any votes.  As others have said, there must have been other things going on we didn't see.

[Skooma]

1 hour ago, Shermie said:

I’m assuming Carolyn and Carson will be asked to come back so there’s that.  ...

As much as I liked Carson alas for him he kind of mashes together with the whole herd of token nice young nerds they have at least one or two of every season so I doubt he'd come back. 

Other than a Winners Only (or Partly) season where Yam-Yam would be asked back I think Carolyn would be the only for sure Survivor asked back.

I don't think any of the others are remotely in the running.  Showmance couple?  Another dime a dozen pair.  They are fresher in the minds of viewers now but in a season or two will be forgotten or supplanted by the next showmance couple.  Or, by me, forgotten in about 2 weeks, haha.

No one else stands out to me.  They have bubbly people on every season, and people "representing" some group or other and boring alpha male types and they all kind of are the same in the end.  The newest edition of these types are usually remembered the most by viewers ... until the next season starts.  Time fades them away.

But Carolyn was unique, funny and compelling all at once which makes her memorable as in that rare "iconic" Survivor remembered for years to come.

[eel2178]

14 hours ago, North of Eden said:

 only one player respecting a gutsy (but reckless move of making fire when you didn't have to?).

That was really just lousy game play and lousy jury management.

Announcing "I want to win my way into the finale" then picking the worst fire maker of the 3 to compete against didn't prove anything to anyone.

[eel2178]

2 hours ago, Nashville said:

Carson did practice making fire at home, and said so (last episode, at the 52:22 time mark):

It’s so weird; I could make fire in three minutes at home with a flint and machete, but here I’m struggling.

I suspect Carson simply got into his own head on the firemaking.

However, what was he using for kindling? He may have set himself up to fail by using something that was a lot easier to ignite at home thereby letting himself think he had it nailed. (Let's face it, he thought he had everything nailed).

[JudyObscure]

52 minutes ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

His [Yam Yam's] cutesy shtick was annoying as hell and shouldn't have won him any votes.

The more I think about it and read the thoughts here, I think that cutesy shtick is what it all came down to.  Some of us were slightly sickened at seeing a grown man hug his knees pout his lips and talk in a baby talk sing song. 

Others (and almost all of the jury) heard that sing song as a comedian's delivery and found every word out of his mouth to be funny and adorable.  We saw it in every episode.  Yam Yam making a simple remark and everyone, often including Jeff,  laughing as though he was as brilliantly funny as Robin Williams.  We saw it last night when the final three walked out after Carson went home -- Yam Yam looked at the jury, and said, "tomorrow we party," and they all roared.

 

[Guest]

Speaking of fire-making, my favorite Carolyn/Yam Yam moment all season was their little fire-making stand-off on the rock. For all their over-the-top appeal (to some), I preferred this kind of low-key interaction, with little passive-aggressive digs and quips and a "we're being friendly but also not but also yes" kind of vibe. It was like something out of a spy movie, where the pro- and antagonist are facing off.

Edited May 25, 2023 by tracyscott76
Removed an interloping comma

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, HurricaneVal said:

Oooooof, Heidi.....  She built up a fantastic end-game resume there, but I have never seen anyone totally strike out at Final Tribal Council like that.  She went into that FTC on the highest high, with momentum on her side, and totally tanked it.  She was so stiff, so corporate.  She looked like the head of HR at a mediation session.  No warmth, slightly combative with the interrupting, all starchy and austere.  I don't know if that was a choice, to seem more controlled because she knew Carolyn would be flailing all over, and she wanted to provide a measured contrast, or if she just had some sort of stage fright or performance anxiety.  I wonder if she'd been more exuberant "Hey!  Look what I did, y'all!" if she'd have received more votes?

Carolyn also totally whiffed FTC.  Maybe Carson losing at fire and leaving the game left her grieving.  Maybe with her history, she got too much into her head and thought "I'm not good enough" and kind of gave up.  The Carolyn at FTC looked kind of defeated.  She had no game.  She was never all that great at expressing herself with finessed articulation, but somehow with all the spasmodic movements and dramatic facial expressions and vocal explosions, she managed to get her point across and actually be quite insightful.  The problem was, nobody really saw past the flailing.  I warmed up to Carolyn in the mid-to-late game, I saw that she was hiding in plain sight.  Carolyn had quite the Survivor FTC resume, all it took was an inspired FTC performance to tick off everything she did under their noses, and she might have taken it.  Or at least been a little competitive with Yam Yam. 

I really have no issues with Yam Yam winning.  He never lost sight of the game.  Sure, he could be petty, but he's human.  In the past, we've all seen the huge alpha males absolutely raging back at camp for people daring--daring!--to write their name down and then go on witch hunts to find the traitors.  Getting votes certainly needled Yam Yam, and there was certainly a time during the early game and just after the merge when I thought he'd be voted out, but he always managed to turn the tide.  Yam Yam was managing his end game from the start.  He took the time to make relationships with everyone.  He was kind and a little goofy and I really do think his behind the scenes machinations and manipulations steered a lot of the game.  And where he couldn't steer, he surfed.  He and Carolyn made a great duo, and out of everyone there, I think he recognized that Carolyn had a great strategic mind under all the big personality.  That was his strength, his insight into people, which gave him a huge advantage.  His social game gave him the win. 

That said, this season was not Survivor for me.  This was "The Yam Yam and Carolyn Show" with weekly guest stars.  I did not like this at all.  I think the editors got lazy, took a break, and just let the big personalities dominate.  Good editors can make stories out of small moments from B-roll footage.  Sure, they had their moments when they showed their cleverness--that reward trip with Carolyn, Brandon, and Danny was well cut together, and gave us one of the first clues that Carolyn was not the ditz she appears, and was really quite emotionally intelligent and getting more and more frustrated by the minute.  But overall, while the editors may have shown us the path to the win, that was essentially all they showed us.  Oh, and the showmance, which.....blech.  This ain't Big Brother. 

Sigh.  I miss a bitter jury.  I need a good, heartfelt, teeth clenched, stony eyed "rat and snake" speech.

Yes to this entire post! At first I was so put off by Carolyn, and honestly? As much as I appreciate her ability to take what is perceived as a weakness on Survivor - having a huge, weird personality that has the ability to annoy the fuck out of fellow tribe members - she made her true self work for her as best she could. But I just never warmed up to her 100% like most viewers seemed to. Yam Yam I loathed at first, but I saw how his game grew and TBH, he was more or less one of the kindest players I've ever seen get to FTC, yet alone win it all. He made real connections with people out there, even if he was pissed that they wrote his name down. As he often said, every single person who wrote his name down, he got them voted out. That says a lot about his game play, IMO. I liked Carson for much of the season but he started getting a bit cocky towards the end, though overall, the Tika 3 were entertaining to watch as they bumbled their way through challenge after challenge almost against the odds. Nobody took their little threesome seriously until it was way too late, and I enjoyed seeing three atypical players go to the near end together. The way Yam Yam consoled and helped Carson improve his fire making skills was just a really beautiful moment and speaks volumes about the type of person Yam Yam is in real life. I also was really happy for him winning in that he said he comes from a family of athletes and he is the odd one out, and yet he outlasted, outwitted, and outplayed everyone else to win this game that I'd bet his father and brother couldn't handle.

That said, these shortened seasons suck, and as someone else said, the extra days are where people start breaking down and that's integral to the game IMO. This new version seems more like sleepaway camp, and I'm honestly tired of Peachy. They need to do something new and different OR go back to the extended OG season time frame, along with going to new locations each season. I mean, if they just re used the locations they've been to in the past and circulated through those, it would be different enough. Also, and this really annoys the fuck out of me, stop with the GoTs iconography at Tribal. You're in Fiji Jeff, they have brilliant Pacific Islander iconography you could be using but no, instead we get European gargoyles and such at Tribal. That's just stupid.

[rr2911]

Yam Yam, not the worst winner but....second maybe?  Maryanne  holds as the worst winner for me at least.

It was a very disappointed ending to a pretty good season.  As many have posted here, Carolyn was my favorite to win but I knew it would be an uphill battle especially with Yam Yam there.  Some bullet points from this season...

.  I knew Yam Yam would have a great chance of winning if he made it to FTC.  Why couldn't everyone see that?  Contestants always go for the strongest and let the ones that never ruffle anyone's feathers like Yam Yam.

.  Outwit, Outlast, Outplay.  Yam Yam won so when did they change that?  He out talked everyone though.

.  I hope when Jeff Probst looks back at this season's FTC, they'll realize that it was the Carson Show.  I liked when every juror had to ask questions.  Brandon never asked a question and Matt just smiled and mumbled something or another. Come on Jeff, go back to the routine.

.  These Cumbaya Survivor seasons are a bit too much.  Some drama is good.

.  I have to say that the last two seasons are a huge improvement from S41 and S42.  S41 had that (certain group alliance) along with woe is me speeches and S42 had and I'm paraphrasing, "I looked at the jury and I see people who look like me there" speech.  Season's 43 and 44 "moved on" !

.  Hindsight is 20/20 but Heidi's fire risk went for naught.  Sure she broke the record, but she could've danced the Macarena while building fire and it wouldn't have made a difference. The jury had their mind made up.

.  I was pulling for Carolyn but I knew her personality would kind of come back to haunt her.  I had hoped that Heidi would choose Yam Yam and Carson to compete in the fire challenge.  Carson could've pulled out the upset.  Carson played a better game than Yam Yam, so I would've been ok if he had won.

.  Come on Jeff, stop with the Cumbaya shows.  Let's have some drama!!!

 

See ya'll next season!

[iMonrey]

Quote

His social game gave him the win. 

Eh. That's just compared to Carolyn or Heidi though. His social game didn't get him to the final three. Like Gabler before them, Yam and Carolyn managed to make it to the end by being lovable goofballs nobody took seriously or considered a threat. That seems to be the winning strategy now - make everyone think you're a perfect goat then make the jury laugh the most.

The show sure didn't spend any time showing us how Yam was climbing up the ladder by making important, interpersonal connections with other players. If that's really how it was I must have missed it. It wasn't his social game, per se, that gave him the win. It was his ability to sell himself to the jury better than Carolyn or Heidi managed to do.

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

But even if the show did do it this way, this reasoning doesn't make sense to me. The latest juror isn't the least-informed - they've been there for all the tribal councils, too, as a player. Plus they were actually in the game longer than the other jurors, so they're really the most-informed juror. I could see the quick turnaround from competitor to juror being a little jarring, but how much "serious catch-up" is really needed, and why does that translate into "letting them ask more questions than anyone else"?

I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess the jurors’ conversations at Ponderosa just might be a little more game-centric than “Hey, aren’t these burgers great?” 
(Notable exceptions being Matt and Frannie, of course - they’re whispering back and forth about whether the repair bill for the furniture they’re wrecking in their respective bungalows each night will be coming out of their per diems….)

My point being TPTB can do their level best to quash pre-vote juror game conversations, but given human nature - and short of sequestering each juror on their own individual island - there’s simply no way to absolutely eliminate them.  And the final juror has zero access to the same information spill which was available to the other jurors.
 

5 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

It's more likely that either Carson just jumped in more, given his game-long ties to Yam Yam and Carolyn (and his general Survivor-enthusiast nature), or the editors determined his questions to be more useful in showing how TC played out.

Either way, I found it annoying.

In truth, I think Carson’s interruptions were actually him trying to help out Carolyn - trying to elicit from her better description of her game moves.  Didn’t work, but nice try at least.  

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Nashville said:

I’m going to go out on a limb here and guess the jurors’ conversations at Ponderosa just might be a little more game-centric than “Hey, aren’t these burgers great?” 
(Notable exceptions being Matt and Frannie, of course - they’re whispering back and forth about whether the repair bill for the furniture they’re wrecking in their respective bungalows each night will be coming out of their per diems….)

My point being TPTB can do their level best to quash pre-vote juror game conversations, but given human nature - and short of sequestering each juror on their own individual island - there’s simply no way to absolutely eliminate them.  And the final juror has zero access to the same information spill which was available to the other jurors.
 

In truth, I think Carson’s interruptions were actually him trying to help out Carolyn - trying to elicit from her better description of her game moves.  Didn’t work, but nice try at least.  

To me, this still doesn't indicate (and certainly doesn't justify) a show-mandated leeway to let Carson, or any other last juror, speak more than anyone else, which was your initial comment. Yeah, he was obviously trying to help Carolyn - but that doesn't justify letting him dominate the questioning, either.

[jsm1125]

I’ve been wondering what an actively killer social game would look like on screen in the US version, and Yam Yam is the closest to it that I think we’ve ever seen. Australian Survivor did an excellent job at portraying that quality of Shonee a few years ago, so it’s nice to see the equivalent in the states. 

[tvfanatic13]

Better than Gabler but meh. 

[LadyChatts]

5 hours ago, rr2911 said:

Yam Yam, not the worst winner but....second maybe?  Maryanne  holds as the worst winner for me at least.

It was a very disappointed ending to a pretty good season.  As many have posted here, Carolyn was my favorite to win but I knew it would be an uphill battle especially with Yam Yam there.  Some bullet points from this season...

.  I knew Yam Yam would have a great chance of winning if he made it to FTC.  Why couldn't everyone see that?  Contestants always go for the strongest and let the ones that never ruffle anyone's feathers like Yam Yam.

.  Outwit, Outlast, Outplay.  Yam Yam won so when did they change that?  He out talked everyone though.

.  I hope when Jeff Probst looks back at this season's FTC, they'll realize that it was the Carson Show.  I liked when every juror had to ask questions.  Brandon never asked a question and Matt just smiled and mumbled something or another. Come on Jeff, go back to the routine.

.  These Cumbaya Survivor seasons are a bit too much.  Some drama is good.

.  I have to say that the last two seasons are a huge improvement from S41 and S42.  S41 had that (certain group alliance) along with woe is me speeches and S42 had and I'm paraphrasing, "I looked at the jury and I see people who look like me there" speech.  Season's 43 and 44 "moved on" !

.  Hindsight is 20/20 but Heidi's fire risk went for naught.  Sure she broke the record, but she could've danced the Macarena while building fire and it wouldn't have made a difference. The jury had their mind made up.

.  I was pulling for Carolyn but I knew her personality would kind of come back to haunt her.  I had hoped that Heidi would choose Yam Yam and Carson to compete in the fire challenge.  Carson could've pulled out the upset.  Carson played a better game than Yam Yam, so I would've been ok if he had won.

.  Come on Jeff, stop with the Cumbaya shows.  Let's have some drama!!!

 

See ya'll next season!

I kind of laugh that everyone was referring to Carson as being Carolyn's pageant mom, with his hand motions and jumping in to try and help her answer questions.  I guess I didn't notice it was the Carson show, but I honestly started tuning the jury out early on.  I was paying more attention to the final 3 and how badly they all seemed to be doing.  

Last season, the jury justified voting for Gabler because he took on Jesse in fire, and Cassidy wasn't risky enough to give up her hard won immunity to do the same.  This season, Heidi gives up immunity to take on Carson in fire, sets a record, and only impresses a guy that was already her ally.  What I'm hoping for future seasons is that finalists realize winning in fire and giving up immunity to do so is just an excuse the jury will use if they can't come up with a better one for voting for someone (so what's the point).  

I don't know if Yam Yam is the worst winner, but he's just there for me.  I've mentioned before I'm not a fan of social gamers.  What's the point of strategy, challenges, idol/advantage plays, if someone who just bonded the most with you or is someone you like better than the other 2 is going to get your vote?  From Carolyn's exit interviews, it sounds like she wanted to do the whole deep dive getting to know you conversations, but people were in game mode around her.  With Yam, it sounded like he was making friends left and right.  

Agree about the show needing a little drama.  I think the networks and producers have gotten too scared by backlash. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by LadyChatts

[violet and green]

2 hours ago, tracyscott76 said:

To me, this still doesn't indicate (and certainly doesn't justify) a show-mandated leeway to let Carson, or any other last juror, speak more than anyone else, which was your initial comment. Yeah, he was obviously trying to help Carolyn - but that doesn't justify letting him dominate the questioning, either.

I'm assuming the FTC like all other TCs was edited down from hours of footage, so wasn't it just the edit that let him seem to dominate the questioning? I am assuming others spoke but their comments or questions were not as pertinent or didn't initiate anything new from the final three, and were edited out.

Had a quick rewatch and paid better attention to the juror's responses and I can see how and when YamYam won them over with his replies and feel better about his win, now.

[violet and green]

Just learned Sia awarded Carolyn Wiger $100,000. Hooray!

[DrBriCa]

15 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I never thought I’d be saying this, but I miss themed seasons

Same. Even a few days ago, I was thinking about how some of the previous themes were fairly dumb, but overall they did more often than not help differentiate the seasons. But tonight, I realized that I don't have as much excitement watching the "Next Season" promo since it's now just a bunch of random new people briefly talking rather than seeing some new theme or especially the old thrill of a new location. I definitely miss when the locations played a bigger role in the set up for season.

I also wonder how much casting has dipped in recent years. This season in particular had quite a few "Apply to be on Survivor!" bits each week, and then Jeff repeatedly said it throughout tonight's episode.

I'd be okay with Matt & Frannie popping up on Amazing Race sometime in the future.

But congrats to Yam Yam, and way to go to Carolyn for carrying the entire season.

[JudyObscure]

Awww, I'm so happy for her, From tine to time Carolyn would get a little make-up on or just quit making faces and I'd be struck by how beautiful she is.  

[Scatterbrained]

15 hours ago, gingerella said:

Also, and this really annoys the fuck out of me, stop with the GoTs iconography at Tribal. You're in Fiji Jeff, they have brilliant Pacific Islander iconography you could be using but no, instead we get European gargoyles and such at Tribal. That's just stupid.

This reminds me, my chess playing son alerted when he saw the voting booth in the finale.  He told us the positions of the pieces on the board equaled one move until checkmate.  

As far as this seasons theme, it seemed like “games” and “fantasy vs, reality” we’re the themes, but they weren’t explicitly stated.  I get the feeling some contestants were chosen because the majority of their social interactions have been online.  I don’t think they are going to be more overt about it when discussing this season for fear of upsetting people.  I don’t think it played out dramatically.

[Wildcard]

Quote

Agree about the show needing a little drama.  I think the networks and producers have gotten too scared by backlash. 

Maybe, this is a result of too many superfans being on the show? They've always wanted to be on the show, so just being on the show is dream - no matter what the result. They've seen a gazillion advantages, so being blindsided is a normal event.  This opinion is not fully baked - but there's something missing as the seasons go by.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, violet and green said:

I'm assuming the FTC like all other TCs was edited down from hours of footage, so wasn't it just the edit that let him seem to dominate the questioning? I am assuming others spoke but their comments or questions were not as pertinent or didn't initiate anything new from the final three, and were edited out.

Yes, I mentioned the editing possibility in a different post. I was just responding to someone's suggestion that Carson talked so much because the show allows the most recent juror to talk more to make up for the fact that they're supposedly more out of the loop than the other jurors.

[PaperTree]

19 hours ago, eel2178 said:

However, what was he using for kindling? He may have set himself up to fail by using something that was a lot easier to ignite at home thereby letting himself think he had it nailed. (Let's face it, he thought he had everything nailed).

Carson tried real hard.  With Naked & Afraid being another of my trash wallows, the dryness/composition of the kindling is hugely important.

My firestarter is a Bic lighter😎

eta:  Agree with others the show has gotten stale, but I'm a hopeless addict.

Still remember the anticipation of S1 Ep1 then Richard went naked and freaked out the world.  Good times.

Always fun here, see ya's next season😎

Edited May 26, 2023 by PaperTree
just more

[choclatechip45]

Not crazy about Yam Yam winning but I think in this new era they've done a bad job of showing the winners game. Heidi and Carolyn both sucked in the FTC so can't really blame the jury for not voting for them.

[iMonrey]

Quote

From Carolyn's exit interviews, it sounds like she wanted to do the whole deep dive getting to know you conversations, but people were in game mode around her.  With Yam, it sounded like he was making friends left and right.  

Well I must have missed all the scenes of Yam making friends and talking heads from others saying how much they loved Yam and what a good friend he was.

I still say making it to the F3 is a crap shoot now. There's no outwit or outplay anymore, it's just Outlast, and mostly they Outlast thru sheer dumb luck, like Gabler last season. It's ironic to see the weakest players wind up at the end - the ones that are early targets in their tribes because of their weakness, but manage to last 'til the merge then fly under the radar because nobody sees them as a threat. That's just happening on the regular now. That's how Gabler wound up in the F3 last season, and how Yam and Carolyn wound up there this time.

Last season Cassidy lost because she made Jesse go away and everyone wanted to vote for Jesse. I think this season they might have wanted to vote for Lauren or Carson, so in both cases their choice came down to not the best player but whoever was left that sold themself best. Heidi was defensive and abrasive, and I think there was some resentment she just lucked out getting there. And Carolyn has never been able to articulate her game. Yam by default then. Not a season-long arc of great game playing by the winner, just a stumble to the end and a comparatively better sales pitch out of the three that are left.

Color me unimpressed.

[HurricaneVal]

See, I look at a social game as potentially being very strategic--if it is used correctly, and it seems that Yam Yam used it that way.  A good social game is different than just hanging out and being everybody's friend, and hoping that tribe popularity gets you votes at FTC like a prom queen. 

Yam Yam said during FTC that he used his friendly personality and natural ability to get close with people to get information about votes and dynamics and act accordingly.  Through his social game, he manipulated votes, and where he couldn't manipulate votes, he worked on the others to make sure the votes went his way.  Now, it could just be coincidence, but his statement at FTC that anyone who voted for him was subsequently voted out is demonstrably true.  Was it his machinations that made that happen, or just ego talking--and he does have a pretty big ego to go with that big personality--we'll never know.  He did say that through his social game, he knew how everyone was voting going into each tribal council, and that's actually quite something.

I can respect that sort of social engineering kind of social game.  The "prom king" kind of social game.....not so much.

 

Edited to add:  I have no explanation for Gabler.

Edited May 26, 2023 by HurricaneVal
Gabler

[Guest]

The fact that most non-Tika people didn't seriously consider voting out Tika people until it was way too late is pretty convincing proof to me that there was some serious social strategy going down on the part of the Tikas. Yes, some of that was Carson, but Yam Yam was part of it, too (no offense to Carolyn, but I'm not sure she figured into it as much, as her lack of votes seems to indicate). And in the end, Carson was gone and Yam Yam was still there.

I don't consider myself a Yam Yam fan, but I can't just dismiss his game as being charming and goofy and friendly. There was a lot more to it than that, and I absolutely consider that to be strategic play.

Edited May 26, 2023 by tracyscott76

[SevenCostanza]

7 hours ago, DrBriCa said:

Same. Even a few days ago, I was thinking about how some of the previous themes were fairly dumb, but overall they did more often than not help differentiate the seasons. But tonight, I realized that I don't have as much excitement watching the "Next Season" promo since it's now just a bunch of random new people briefly talking rather than seeing some new theme or especially the old thrill of a new location. I definitely miss when the locations played a bigger role in the set up for season.

 

 

I miss different locations too!  I've been watching since day 1 and I remember all the different locations they used to go to.  It made it a lot more interesting.  Also they used to do things involving those different locations during challenge wins, it wasn't them just sitting around eating and talking.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I fast-forwarded through much of the finale and was thus pretty surprised that Yam Yam won, when all signs pointed (to me, anyway) to a Carolyn win against all comers. I would have bet most anything I own that Frannie at a minimum would have voted Carolyn over any likely rivals. 

Did Yam Yam just give a killer FTC talk, or Carolyn just whiff hers?

[meep.meep]

16 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

I’ve been wondering what an actively killer social game would look like on screen in the US version, and Yam Yam is the closest to it that I think we’ve ever seen. Australian Survivor did an excellent job at portraying that quality of Shonee a few years ago, so it’s nice to see the equivalent in the states. 

I think we've seen that in the way that Cerie played.  No one ever wanted to vote for her.

Spoiler

Her win in The Traitors was a master class in social deception.  The two people left with her at the end were convinced she was totally on their side.

 

[eel2178]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Did Yam Yam just give a killer FTC talk, or Carolyn just whiff hers?

2 weeks ago, people tried to totally shut me down when I said that Carolyn wasn't articulate enough to state her own virtues at the final tribal council. I now rest my case.

[eel2178]

17 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

I’ve been wondering what an actively killer social game would look like on screen in the US version, and Yam Yam is the closest to it that I think we’ve ever seen. 

However, Lauren was voted out because she had too many friends on the jury. If the finale had been Lauren versus Yum Yum, who would have been considered to have the better social game?

[LadyChatts]

10 hours ago, DrBriCa said:

Same. Even a few days ago, I was thinking about how some of the previous themes were fairly dumb, but overall they did more often than not help differentiate the seasons. But tonight, I realized that I don't have as much excitement watching the "Next Season" promo since it's now just a bunch of random new people briefly talking rather than seeing some new theme or especially the old thrill of a new location. I definitely miss when the locations played a bigger role in the set up for season.

I also wonder how much casting has dipped in recent years. This season in particular had quite a few "Apply to be on Survivor!" bits each week, and then Jeff repeatedly said it throughout tonight's episode.

I'd be okay with Matt & Frannie popping up on Amazing Race sometime in the future.

But congrats to Yam Yam, and way to go to Carolyn for carrying the entire season.

Yes, at least the locations provided something to the season.  Guatemala was the Mayan Empire, we had the preview for Exile Island which was brand new in S12, the preview for Gabon had amazing wildlife shots.  Even Marquesas was a 'back to the beach' since S2 and 3 were in landlocked locations.  But being in Fiji since S33, and especially this 'new era' of super fans, everyone and everything is blurring together.  It's stale.  The idols and advantages aren't even anything unique. Even the contestants are hinting around about that.  If people can practice challenges at home to a tee, then you know it's time to change.  They also need better rewards than going to the sanctuary.  Different locations provided that.

I was thinking the same thing about casting.  I think they are really trying hard to cast actual fans, and not recruits, and I can't believe there's a shortage (especially of the younger generation of fans whose now of age to apply).  But I never remember Probst pushing it as hard.

Edited May 26, 2023 by LadyChatts

[DEL901]

How Heidi got so good at fire:

 

[iMonrey]

Quote

However, Lauren was voted out because she had too many friends on the jury. If the finale had been Lauren versus Yum Yum, who would have been considered to have the better social game?

Exactly. Yam had the best social game out of the final three. Not necessarily the best social game out of the whole cast. And it wasn't his social game that got him to the F3. It was a combination of luck, flying under the radar, and a strong alliance. That his social game was better than Heidi's or Carolyn's may have given him the win but that's only because of who the other choices were.

I'm fine with saying Yam deserved to win over Carolyn or Heidi, I'm just not prepared to say he played the best game overall this season. With all the idols, twists, advantages, tribal swaps, etc., it's a real crap shoot who ends up getting to the end. It's a choice between three people who somehow managed to get there mostly through sheer dumb luck. 

Again: See: Gabler. Did he play the best game? No. The jury just liked him better than Cassidy or Owen, period. That's what it's coming down to now.

Edited May 26, 2023 by iMonrey

[lilysmom]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Well I must have missed all the scenes of Yam making friends and talking heads from others saying how much they loved Yam and what a good friend he was.

I still say making it to the F3 is a crap shoot now. There's no outwit or outplay anymore, it's just Outlast, and mostly they Outlast thru sheer dumb luck, like Gabler last season. It's ironic to see the weakest players wind up at the end - the ones that are early targets in their tribes because of their weakness, but manage to last 'til the merge then fly under the radar because nobody sees them as a threat. That's just happening on the regular now. That's how Gabler wound up in the F3 last season, and how Yam and Carolyn wound up there this time.

Last season Cassidy lost because she made Jesse go away and everyone wanted to vote for Jesse. I think this season they might have wanted to vote for Lauren or Carson, so in both cases their choice came down to not the best player but whoever was left that sold themself best. Heidi was defensive and abrasive, and I think there was some resentment she just lucked out getting there. And Carolyn has never been able to articulate her game. Yam by default then. Not a season-long arc of great game playing by the winner, just a stumble to the end and a comparatively better sales pitch out of the three that are left.

Color me unimpressed.

Very well said. No one may agree with me on this, but I think you can take all the things you said about players in this game and transport that into what happens in real life. There are people who do everything right, do their jobs properly, are excellent parents and family people  and hopefully do well in life and get very little recognition. But we all know people who give maybe 50% to the above and somehow end up surpassing us all to the top and winning those best of the best rewards. 

[gingerella]

7 minutes ago, lilysmom said:

Very well said. No one may agree with me on this, but I think you can take all the things you said about players in this game and transport that into what happens in real life. There are people who do everything right, do their jobs properly, are excellent parents and family people  and hopefully do well in life and get very little recognition. But we all know people who give maybe 50% to the above and somehow end up surpassing us all to the top and winning those best of the best rewards. 

And there is also the adage that 'shit floats to the top', which is also true. I think it all comes down to being in the right place at the right time, period.

[30 Helens]

On 5/25/2023 at 8:58 AM, dizzyd said:

Why is US Survivor suffering through these challenges when Australian Survivor doesn’t?

Because AS doesn’t have the all-powerful game-wrecking Jeff Probst. If he really cared about what the fans want, this would be a different show. But Jeff only cares about his own wants and his own ego. Jeff likes twists and tricks, so we get twists and tricks. Jeff likes to think of new variations on twists that have already failed, so each season we are subjected to new versions of his mad scientist experiments. It’s Jeff’s playpen. There doesn’t seem to be anyone else with the power (or willingness) to push back, and provide the sort of collaborative creativity that could actually resuscitate this show in the way it so desperately needs. 

On 5/25/2023 at 10:23 AM, needschocolate said:

I thought it was interesting that Carson mentioned, more than once, how Heidi made her fire in the fastest time ever in a final tribal.  I felt like he was trying to make himself feel better about losing.  He wasn't far behind her and, if he had been making fire against a previous final-tribal-fire-maker, he may have won.  

Yes— compared to previous fire making challenges, some of which have been torturously slow, Carson did really well. In any other season, I feel he would have taken that, handily.

4 hours ago, SevenCostanza said:

I miss different locations too!  I've been watching since day 1 and I remember all the different locations they used to go to.  It made it a lot more interesting.  Also they used to do things involving those different locations during challenge wins, it wasn't them just sitting around eating and talking.

We were talking about this very thing at my house! Some of the season high points were seeing the Survivors interact with the locals. Ethan playing soccer with the African kids is an iconic moment and one we’ll never see again in New Survivor. 

[eel2178]

32 minutes ago, 30 Helens said:

Because AS doesn’t have the all-powerful game-wrecking Jeff Probst.

Does the host narrate the challenges the same way Jeff does, or has he figured out a way to do it that is less annoying?

[LadyChatts]

In defense of Jeff, I think there are some things that may out of his control and more CBS.  I know Jeff likes the raw emotion of immediately having the reunion after the live vote, and I'm honestly not opposed to having a pre-taped reunion (I do miss the live audience though).  And I also think Jeff might get more if he keeps the final 3 and jurors separate, but lets everything sink in to the final 3 about what just went down.  If Carolyn had 12-24 hours to decompress she might have come back with "why did nobody vote for me?  That hurt!"  But I would be curious to know if CBS wants everything wrapped up that night; if I remember right, they wanted to scrap the reunion show all together at one point.  Probst alsomentioned that the crew on site had doubled to some 400 people, so his argument is trouble finding an isolated location (not buying that as much if other versions can do it) and one that accomodate so many people (that is more believable).  However, why so many?  If it's because of needing to film 3 beaches, challenges, shipwheel island, and the sanctuary, scrap that stuff.  Also, if Fiji has been giving them tax breaks and making it cheaper to film there vs somewhere else, I can understand that.  Since there's rumors that Fiji may want to roll up the welcome mat in the near future, I am wondering where the show will go.  I can get where they might be having trouble with sponsors-if I were a company I think I'd be scared to sponsor anything these days-and CBS doesn't give the show the budget like it used to, but I think it's a mix of Jeff just wanting must-see moments, characters, and water cooler talk like the old days (perhaps forgetting that some of those moments happened naturally, and not because production were the ones planting fake idols or taking votes away).  I mean, the big story of this season was the Tika 3 steam rolling to the end, but I don't even think that story was as fleshed out as it could have been.

Frankly, I think CBS isn't making as much use for Paramount+ like they could when it comes to Survivor.  Why not show extended episodes on there that are for subscribers?  Bring back Ponderosa, show more deleted scenes, more interviews.  I also think the show needs to think outside the box with casting more.  Diversity doesn't just mean race or someone's sexual orientation or gender, it can mean location, background, employment, education.  That's another reason I feel like these casts are blending together.

[30 Helens]

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

n defense of Jeff, I think there are some things that may out of his control and more CBS.

You make a number of excellent points. The single Fiji location is almost certainly a budgetary (CBS) decision. Regardless of staff size— and really, why so many??— setting up new production facilities and all that entails (work, eat, sleep, medical, etc) at a new location every time would be very expensive.  And I’m sure the budget has shrunk substantially since the early seasons. I expect that also plays a role in repeating so many challenges. They can just put those spinning ball drop thingys in a Fiji Public Storage and use them next year; no need to build a new game.

I don’t blame Jeff for the budgetary compromises. I do blame him for the shift in focus from strategy and human interaction to shiny baubles and doodads.

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

I think it's a mix of Jeff just wanting must-see moments, characters, and water cooler talk like the old days (perhaps forgetting that some of those moments happened naturally, and not because production were the ones planting fake idols or taking votes away).  I mean, the big story of this season was the Tika 3 steam rolling to the end, but I don't even think that story was as fleshed out as it could have been.

YES to all of that. One advantage the Australian version has over this one is longer episode times. This allows them to spend much more time on camp life and personal interactions. By episode 3, I feel like I know almost everyone pretty well, while it takes me at least half way through the US season to have that familiarity. I would be up for longer episodes, if that’s what it took. But even with less time, US Survivor could put a lot more focus on the human element. If I don’t care about the people, I don’t care about the game. 

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

Frankly, I think CBS isn't making as much use for Paramount+ like they could when it comes to Survivor.  Why not show extended episodes on there that are for subscribers?  Bring back Ponderosa, show more deleted scenes, more interviews. 

 I would watch all of this. Top Chef has Last Chance Kitchen on Peacock; why not do Ponderosa on Paramount? They could also do it as an after show, like the way Untucked follows Drag Race. (This could also allow them to extend the main episode by 15 minutes, to fill out the half hour.) With broadcast scheduling challenges, this could be a win-win for fans and execs.

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

I also think the show needs to think outside the box with casting more.  Diversity doesn't just mean race or someone's sexual orientation or gender, it can mean location, background, employment, education. 

Or age. I used to love the interactions between different generations, and sometimes the older players were the best characters. 

Edited May 26, 2023 by 30 Helens

[millennium]

Alla-gabler 2.0.

 

[HappyDancex2]

Count me in for the vote to move countries!  Peachy said that winter snow wouldn’t play well but they should try LOL.  Survivor igloo!  The seasons are so short now it would at least be interesting to see what kind of challenges they could come up with.

The budget now for the challenges are these long elaborate rope or water courses that end in a puzzle.  It would be cheaper to have the wheel of doom and make them eat worms and pigeon feet again.

[HappyDancex2]

The finale was oddly edited to give the sappy side of YY being the kind hearted helper of the year to Carson but I will say that each person held true to their limiting belief.  Carson lost all confidence and it’s like he ran out of emotional gas.  His body language and stress had him shrug shouldered leading up to and during the fire making challenge.  It was like watching someone move in mud.  He was so slow and so self defeating.
 

Carolyn didn’t do a good enough job answering questions and she looked confused and undeserving again.  She went back into her nutty shell of overthinking and Jam was just loose and chatty and dropped some comedy….at least the edit seemed like that.  I will give Heidi a lot of credit for doing the fire making challenge.  Definitely too little too late but it was her only play.  She should be proud.  
 

the whole thing was so lopsided I thought the editors were trying to throw us off of Carolyn being the obvious winner or having a close vote between Jam and Carolyn.  
 

also weird was the oddly framed shots of the champagne being poured repeatedly during the aftershow.  Label wasn’t clearly shown, looked like random zoom shots with human torso as the backdrop….anyone know what that was all about?  If that was product placement then I’m an unhappy sponsor!

[JH Lipton]

If I was Carolyn, when the women told her how "inspiring" she was, I would have asked "Then why didn't you vote for me [bitch]?" That was so insulting!  I know that it's near impossible for women to work together (whether it was the "Moms Alliance" that lasted five minutes, or the "Lauren's such a powerful player that we can't vote out Yam Yam" at the end.

So many opportunities for an all-female final three just squandered for no good reason.

[Kenzie]

11 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Because AS doesn’t have the all-powerful game-wrecking Jeff Probst. If he really cared about what the fans want, this would be a different show. But Jeff only cares about his own wants and his own ego. Jeff likes twists and tricks, so we get twists and tricks.

Probst likes immunity idols, advantages and twists because they're cheap to create.

A handful of beads or a rolled up bit of paper costs pennies compared to all the features we loved that are now gone like great rewards, elaborate challenges, new locations, family visits and Ponderosa videos. I think Jeff is really only interested in lining his pocket at this point. 🙁

[peachmangosteen]

13 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

I would be up for longer episodes, if that’s what it took. 

They will be 90 minutes next season. Personally, I'm against it because I don't wanna watch this shit show for that long and because I have no doubt the extra time will not go to anything I'd wanna see anyway lol.

[needschocolate]

I am fine without the audience at the reunion.  Jeff taking comments/questions from the audience and talking to family members was not a good use of reunion time to me.  However, I miss seeing what they look like once they had time to get back to looking their "normal," which, for most of them, is not the same as they look after a hot shower and sleeping a real bed.    

Then again, some of the jury was only living on the beach for around 2 weeks (not sure how the timeline works with the shorter season - the standard used to be tribal every 3 days), and they don't seem to be quite as starving, so the change probably isn't as much.  

[iMonrey]

16 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Regardless of staff size— and really, why so many??

Because it takes a lot of people to set up the obstacle courses and fish nets and rope chains and jungle gyms and high bars and wooden stairs and platforms and basketball hoops and puzzles, silly.

16 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Or age. I used to love the interactions between different generations, and sometimes the older players were the best characters. 

This part is sort of baffling, because when you look back at all the earliest seasons, some of the most popular and memorable players were older players, like Rudy.

I think that speaks to the fact that all the challenges now are very physical American Gladiator/Ninja Warrior type challenges and the show knows that elderly players simply cannot do them, or would have a serious disadvantage trying to.

So it's a problem for casting, because now we don't get anyone over 40 or so. And it's a problem for challenges because they are stale, repetitive iterations of the same damn thing over and over again.

[MsMalin]

I read that Carolyn was surprised that Carson didn't vote for her. I was surprised at first but when I thought about how touched he was by Yam Yam showing him how to make fire it made sense. It was a very generous thing to do. 

[LadyChatts]

20 minutes ago, MsMalin said:

I read that Carolyn was surprised that Carson didn't vote for her. I was surprised at first but when I thought about how touched he was by Yam Yam showing him how to make fire it made sense. It was a very generous thing to do. 

I think I was more surprised that Frannie didn't vote for Carolyn, because she seemed to be a cheerleader for her, and also had some of the more positive things to say about her when they were in the game together.  I did think she might get Carson's vote, too, but in reality I'm not completely surprised.  I do think Carson might have been genuinely undecided and went with Yam for playing the better game of the two.