Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets

[Stevie Nicks]

One of the creepiest and disturbing parts was the witch nosed woman talking about her 14 month old basically needing to be disciplined.. Ugh. And the creepy guy demonstrating how to spank that little boy. Heartbreaking to say the least. The IBLP survivors stories were harrowing as well. I wish them all to he happy and whole. 

[sixlets]

On 6/1/2023 at 10:16 PM, oliviabenson said:

$18 million wow. No wonder everyone is always on vacation. Jim Bob must have given all the adult kids a trust fund/payout of some kind.

Or hush money 🤫

On 6/1/2023 at 10:32 PM, SMama said:

Someone who was willing to take a swipe at a sexual assault victim. 

Yep, definitely Jed!

[GeeGolly]

Ugh, I couldn't figure out why I've been in no hurry to watch the rest of the series - until now. I care about (most of) the Duggars. I'm having a full circle moment from when I first started reading and posting here. I always saw the Duggars as unwitting victims of a cult. Then as the kids (and JB&M) became more worldly adults and continued to double down and began actually spewing pointed hate publicly my opinions of some, maybe most, began to slowly change. And obviously each Josh scandal influenced my thoughts and opinions.

Seeing Jill sitting on that couch looking so vulnerable and Derick looking so smug brought me back to where I started. IMO, Jill, though raised in this cult was a true shiny and happy person and now she's not. The reason she is no longer happy has a lot to do with the way she was raised and being unprepared to leave the insulated cult nest, which makes it even sadder.

Of all the kids Jill really seemed to think the world was her oyster when she married and now it seems, to me anyway, she's adrift alone in the sea. I'm finding that hard to watch.

[ChiCricket]

On 6/2/2023 at 12:38 AM, Tdoc72 said:

Wonder if JRod knows she makes a quick appearance?

I saw that..with her raccoon eye makeup! 😂

[Scout Finch]

6 hours ago, charmed1 said:

I thought it was interesting when the one participant said she thought Gothard’s excessive use of acronyms was to be purposely confusing. Those forced labor sites they were sending the kids to sounded a lot like Scientology’s Sea Org and the 12 Tribes’ delis. 

It reminded me so much of the Sea Org, too.

[Chicklet]

I love how Paul and Morgan are now furious that their words were "distorted". No honey you were just allowed to speak and now don't like how it looks. They are not part of Gothardism but they are trying to influence young people to adopt their ideas just like Gothard. They are very similar to the Seven Mountains Mandate which is a scary ride to delve into if you have the time.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Chicklet

[awaken]

7 hours ago, Stevie Nicks said:

One of the creepiest and disturbing parts was the witch nosed woman talking about her 14 month old basically needing to be disciplined.. Ugh. And the creepy guy demonstrating how to spank that little boy. Heartbreaking to say the least. The IBLP survivors stories were harrowing as well. I wish them all to he happy and whole. 

That was so terrible, I had to skip through. “I had to spank him all day long “- a 14 month old baby!! And crowds of people sat there and laughed. And went home to do the same. 

[charmed1]

15 hours ago, charmed1 said:

This guy terrifies yet fascinates me and I wish they’d spent more time on his personal story. I’m curious how he was able to obtain an Ivy League education while raised in this cult. He said he was home schooled, but didn’t mention if he was educated with the same wisdom booklets as the other participants

Quoting myself here. It makes sense now. Alex Harris is the younger brother of none other than Josh Harris, author (and now denouncer) of “I Kissed Dating Goodbye.” The book is the basis for many of these groups’ ridiculous courtship rules. Josh Harris is now divorced and I believe non-Christian. I follow him on social media.

Edited June 3, 2023 by charmed1

[smittykins]

12 hours ago, Zella said:

Among a certain segment of homeschoolers, A Beka was seen as a rigorous curriculum back in the 90s. (Personally, I think some people confuse being confused with learning. LOLOL) I never used it as a homeschool student so have no personal experience with it to say whether or not it actually was, but I always heard that the history curriculum was especially biased in a way that the Duggars would have liked. But it's also designed to replicate a traditional school setting, so I don't think they ever would have had the ability to handle it. 

I suspect the Duggars were Alpha Omega users. The curriculum was considered easy and it was very workbook-oriented. I know a lot of lazy homeschool families who'd throw Alpha Omega at their kids and never actually do any teaching. 

In their first book, I think Michelle says that she used ACE(Accelerated Christian Education)for the elementary grades, which has its own issues(“Slavery wasn’t really *that* bad; not all masters were cruel, and many slaves were brought to Jeebus!”)..

[poeticlicensed]

Speaking as someone who never watched the Duggar show but heard about it from coworkers and of course the molestation and pornography scandals, I actually thought that blending the backstory of IBLP with the Duggars helped me frame WTH I was watching. The stories of abuse are very  much in line with other cults, like Scientology. I found the whole Joshua Generation thing chilling and of course Madison Cawthorn. How many other politicians and judges are fundamentalists? I know Amy Coney Barrett is part of the People of Praise.

28 minutes ago, smittykins said:

In their first book, I think Michelle says that she used ACE(Accelerated Christian Education)for the elementary grades, which has its own issues(“Slavery wasn’t really *that* bad; not all masters were cruel, and many slaves were brought to Jeebus!”)..

Oh there is a push to rewrite textbooks and rename slaves economic migrants. One of my children lived in South Carolina and when we were visiting went to the state museum. In the tiny part where there was an exhibit on slavery it was very much framed as most people didn't own slaves and some slave owners were kind. 

[charmed1]

29 minutes ago, poeticlicensed said:

I found the whole Joshua Generation thing chilling and of course Madison Cawthorn. How many other politicians and judges are fundamentalists? I know Amy Coney Barrett is part of the People of Praise.

Have you seen The Family on Netflix? It’s a documentary based on the book of the same name. It goes more in depth on the shady dealings of these people and their true intentions.

[Zella]

1 hour ago, smittykins said:

In their first book, I think Michelle says that she used ACE(Accelerated Christian Education)for the elementary grades, which has its own issues(“Slavery wasn’t really *that* bad; not all masters were cruel, and many slaves were brought to Jeebus!”)..

I remember hearing ACE mentioned now!

It looks like they did announce they started using Alpha Omega in 2014 but a computerized version. I can't imagine it was any different in structure than the physical workbooks. One of the big things she was excited for was the automatic grading. 

https://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/09/prweb12177993.htm

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

Speaking as someone who never watched the Duggar show but heard about it from coworkers and of course the molestation and pornography scandals, I actually thought that blending the backstory of IBLP with the Duggars helped me frame WTH I was watching. The stories of abuse are very  much in line with other cults, like Scientology. I found the whole Joshua Generation thing chilling and of course Madison Cawthorn. How many other politicians and judges are fundamentalists? I know Amy Coney Barrett is part of the People of Praise.

Oh there is a push to rewrite textbooks and rename slaves economic migrants. One of my children lived in South Carolina and when we were visiting went to the state museum. In the tiny part where there was an exhibit on slavery it was very much framed as most people didn't own slaves and some slave owners were kind. 

Like the state of Texas trying to rebrand the Middle Passage as the innocuously-named "Triangular Trade." Anything to avoid accountability, and guilt, for white people. 

Topic: I think the documentary did a good job, in its limited timespan, linking Gothard and the Duggars and what happened to the girls. 

The Joshua Generation is not something I am familiar with. I'll be reading about it today. 

[RandomX]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Ugh, I couldn't figure out why I've been in no hurry to watch the rest of the series - until now. I care about (most of) the Duggars. I'm having a full circle moment from when I first started reading and posting here. I always saw the Duggars as unwitting victims of a cult. Then as the kids (and JB&M) became more worldly adults and continued to double down and began actually spewing pointed hate publicly my opinions of some, maybe most, began to slowly change. And obviously each Josh scandal influenced my thoughts and opinions.

Seeing Jill sitting on that couch looking so vulnerable and Derick looking so smug brought me back to where I started. IMO, Jill, though raised in this cult was a true shiny and happy person and now she's not. The reason she is no longer happy has a lot to do with the way she was raised and being unprepared to leave the insulated cult nest, which makes it even sadder.

Of all the kids Jill really seemed to think the world was her oyster when she married and now it seems, to me anyway, she's adrift alone in the sea. I'm finding that hard to watch.

I oddly started reading about the Duggars on snark websites without watching any of the specials or episodes. The only episodes I’ve seen to date were Jill’s wedding and (IIRC) some lead-in episodes of her courting experience, and that was due to me recovering from an outpatient surgery and reading that those epis were airing.

Basically all I know is what I’ve read here and elsewhere — yet there are so many IBLP Studies PhDs (if SOTDRT can grant its own degrees, so can I) here that I feel well-steeped in the Duggar and affiliated family cult history.

I share your feelings of waning sympathy as the children become adults and perpetuate their hateful beliefs and horrible child-rearing practices. I came into SHP with the view that Derick is a bitter, hateful person and a subvertly manipulative husband.

And then … SHP actually has shifted my perspective. Derick did not come off as smug to me. He spoke only in support of her and when she was struggling. She interrupted him at least once and he immediately shut up and let her speak (I understand this has also happened on their youtube videos, which I haven’t seen).
 

In what I found to be an effective way of “showing and not telling,” Derick and Jill’s interactions and body language were miles away from the clips of other cult adjacent couples: JB & Michelle and the Holts (even with Bobye’s side eyes). There were no adoring submissive gazes. The eye contact and handholding read to me as supportive vs approval-seeking or controlling.

Maybe it was effective stagemanship or maybe they received hugely sympathetic  cuts and direction that no one else received. I doubt that — only the institutions (I count JB as an institution) seem to avail themselves with pro help, though Derick’s law school and (albeit brief) legal experience likely gave him some insights into effectively presenting oneself and one’s narrative.

Now I’m considering Derick to still be bitter, likely still hateful, but now a healthier partner for Jill. I’m interested to see whether my perception shifts again when their book comes out since he is listed as a co-author. 
 

I wish Jill and other cult survivors strength in recovering. She and I would never be BFFs, but I empathize with her situation. I hope she and other survivors will reach a recovery stage where they can experience compassion for the burdens that others carry, even if those burdens differ from their own.

[GeeGolly]

11 minutes ago, RandomX said:

I oddly started reading about the Duggars on snark websites without watching any of the specials or episodes. The only episodes I’ve seen to date were Jill’s wedding and (IIRC) some lead-in episodes of her courting experience, and that was due to me recovering from an outpatient surgery and reading that those epis were airing.

Basically all I know is what I’ve read here and elsewhere — yet there are so many IBLP Studies PhDs (if SOTDRT can grant its own degrees, so can I) here that I feel well-steeped in the Duggar and affiliated family cult history.

I share your feelings of waning sympathy as the children become adults and perpetuate their hateful beliefs and horrible child-rearing practices. I came into SHP with the view that Derick is a bitter, hateful person and a subvertly manipulative husband.

And then … SHP actually has shifted my perspective. Derick did not come off as smug to me. He spoke only in support of her and when she was struggling. She interrupted him at least once and he immediately shut up and let her speak (I understand this has also happened on their youtube videos, which I haven’t seen).
 

In what I found to be an effective way of “showing and not telling,” Derick and Jill’s interactions and body language were miles away from the clips of other cult adjacent couples: JB & Michelle and the Holts (even with Bobye’s side eyes). There were no adoring submissive gazes. The eye contact and handholding read to me as supportive vs approval-seeking or controlling.

Maybe it was effective stagemanship or maybe they received hugely sympathetic  cuts and direction that no one else received. I doubt that — only the institutions (I count JB as an institution) seem to avail themselves with pro help, though Derick’s law school and (albeit brief) legal experience likely gave him some insights into effectively presenting oneself and one’s narrative.

Now I’m considering Derick to still be bitter, likely still hateful, but now a healthier partner for Jill. I’m interested to see whether my perception shifts again when their book comes out since he is listed as a co-author. 
 

I wish Jill and other cult survivors strength in recovering. She and I would never be BFFs, but I empathize with her situation. I hope she and other survivors will reach a recovery stage where they can experience compassion for the burdens that others carry, even if those burdens differ from their own.

I was a hopeful defender of Derick when he entered the picture. He had a pants wearing working mom, he went to public school and was a college graduate. I thought for sure he'd be good for Jill and held out hope for a couple of years. After Izzy's birth my opinion started to shift. Derick thought burrito wrapping a crying baby was okay, and even funny. He was looking forward to the arrival of their second child so "Izzy would realize he wasn't the center of the universe". Then there was the 3 year grift for money so he and Jill could be the white saviors of El Salvador and Derick could go to missionary camp. Then there was the lengthy SM hate rant. A public feud with his wife's parents. No one can convince me publicly slamming JB was in anyway good for Jill.

And now bringing it up in a book some 5 years later seems pointless. The only one who will benefit from this book is Derick, who felt crushed when he was beat up on SM.

Speaking for Jill as she struggled with the docuseries interview is not enough, because if Derick was truly supportive Jill wouldn't have been part of the series in the first place.

So while I have full circled for many of the Duggars, I haven't for Derick.

[poeticlicensed]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I was a hopeful defender of Derick when he entered the picture. He had a pants wearing working mom, he went to public school and was a college graduate. I thought for sure he'd be good for Jill and held out hope for a couple of years. After Izzy's birth my opinion started to shift. Derick thought burrito wrapping a crying baby was okay, and even funny. He was looking forward to the arrival of their second child so "Izzy would realize he wasn't the center of the universe". Then there was the 3 year grift for money so he and Jill could be the white saviors of El Salvador and Derick could go to missionary camp. Then there was the lengthy SM hate rant. A public feud with his wife's parents. No one can convince me publicly slamming JB was in anyway good for Jill.

And now bringing it up in a book some 5 years later seems pointless. The only one who will benefit from this book is Derick, who felt crushed when he was beat up on SM.

Speaking for Jill as she struggled with the docuseries interview is not enough, because if Derick was truly supportive Jill wouldn't have been part of the series in the first place.

So while I have full circled for many of the Duggars, I haven't for Derick.

Again I never watched the show so I have no specific opinions on any of the Duggars or spouses, but it seemed like Jill's and Derrick seemed to be mostly upset about the lack of pay and the contract manipulation. I didn't hear a lot of criticism about how she was raised or how her sibs or others were treated by family or the church. I mean yeah escaping a cult is tough. I didn't hear her bemoaning her lack of education and limited opportunities or how she was disciplined. I get that theygot ripped off Jim Bob and Michelle, but I'm wondering if they would be speaking out if JB had freely shared the $$$

[SunnyBeBe]

Episode 2 focuses on the weird way Fundies pervert things like dolls, games, Disney, etc.  I used to laugh at that as a kid.  Our church espoused it too, but in my home that didn’t fly.  My parents were under under the spell of the cult, but they weren’t that crazy. I also wore bikinis and watched tv, though they disapproved.  And, I only ever got one spanking during the Fundie days.  I thought that Michelle used to say they talked to the children and that corporal punishment was not standard with them on the show.  Hmmmm…..did I remember that correctly?  

The Duggar Buddy system always infuriated me and I wondered why it wasn’t frowned upon back in the early days of the show.  That practice was well known long before the Josh scandal.  I’m not sure why that practice didn’t attract CPS.  Of course, we don’t know that it didn’t.  

[SunnyBeBe]

Episode 3.  Why did Derrick pick JB as a prayer partner?  What was the point?  Was it so he could meet Jill? When he described it, it didn’t seem that way.  
 

Our Christian school was ACE, Accelerated Christian Education. Wrong on so many levels. ☹️ Thank goodness I was only there a few years.  The church leaders bragged on it, but it was bizarre, imo.  I was independent enough in thought to mentally challenge what it said, as I read it.  Some kids aren’t as fortunate.  
 

The way this show portrays the IBLP and ATI reminds me of Scientology practices.  Gothard is pretty old now. Is he still mobile?  Does he make appearances at church any longer?  One on one counseling with Gothard sounded like a horrible idea. Omg, creepy stuff.  And no one thought to stop him?  Seems rather Jeff-like, to me. It’s not too late to prosecute him, right?  Do JB and Michelle still defend him?  
 

 

 

[Notabug]

21 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

The way this show portrays the IBLP and ATI reminds me of Scientology practices .Gothard is pretty old now. Is he still mobile?  Does he make appearances at church any longer?  One on one counseling with Gothard sounded like a horrible idea. Omg, creepy stuff.  And no one thought to stop him?  Seems rather Jeff-like, to me. It’s not too late to prosecute him, right?  Do JB and Michelle still defend him?  

 

Gothard was tossed out of IBLP/ATI in 2014 when he was accused of sexual harassment by 30+ women, many of whom were underage.  The group itself 'investigated' and announced he was stepping back although they were careful to claim that nothing he did was illegal.

A group of women filed suit against Gothard and IBLP but it was dismissed because the statute of limitations had run.

Gothard is 88 now and I don't think he's been active publicly since he was removed from IBLP..

[Salacious Kitty]

Just now, Notabug said:

Gothard was tossed out of IBLP/ATI in 2014 when he was accused of sexual harassment by 30+ women, many of whom were underage.  The group itself 'investigated' and announced he was stepping back although they were careful to claim that nothing he did was illegal.

A group of women filed suit against Gothard and IBLP but it was dismissed because the statute of limitations had run.

Gothard is 88 now and I don't think he's been active publicly since he was removed from IBLP..

He attempted to attend the conference at Big Sandy after his ouster. He was taken off the premises by security. This is shown in the docuseries.

[oliviabenson]

14 hours ago, ChiCricket said:

I saw that..with her raccoon eye makeup! 😂

And a pink manly hoodie blouse! 

[Nysha]

20 hours ago, Zella said:

Among a certain segment of homeschoolers, A Beka was seen as a rigorous curriculum back in the 90s. (Personally, I think some people confuse being confused with learning. LOLOL) I never used it as a homeschool student so have no personal experience with it to say whether or not it actually was, but I always heard that the history curriculum was especially biased in a way that the Duggars would have liked. But it's also designed to replicate a traditional school setting, so I don't think they ever would have had the ability to handle it. 

I suspect the Duggars were Alpha Omega users. The curriculum was considered easy and it was very workbook-oriented. I know a lot of lazy homeschool families who'd throw Alpha Omega at their kids and never actually do any teaching. 

If I recall from the days of homeschooling my kids, A Beka was a xtian school curriculum company which made it's curriculum available in single student packaging but didn't change it's teaching methods. 

Switched on Schoolhouse is the online version of Alpha Omega. 

[sagittarius sue]

Here's a recent article about ACE which is used in other countries as well.   https://friendlyatheist.substack.com/p/how-accelerated-christian-education?utm_source=substack&publication_id=95153&post_id=122980209&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&triggerShare=true&isFreemail=true

[Jeeves]

21 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

@Jeeves, is that kind of contract even legal?  It just sounds so whack to me. 

All I know is that Jill was quoted - IIRC in a recent online story - as saying that after the fit hit the shan, JB offered all the kidults a payout, but under the condition that they sign some kind of contract which she described as being under JB's control for a "lifetime," or words to that effect. Jill refused but I think that other kidults did sign (I can't believe Jinger would have, though). 

I'm assuming the contracts would have been with one of JB's companies. (We saw in the series that he had a production company that contracted with TLC for the series.) Maybe a production company, but I don't really know. Assuming no duress or fraud, and assuming the subject of the contract is legal, they can agree to whatever they want, for a long term. We don't really know just what the kidults are obligated to do under the contracts, i.e., what duty they owe JB''s company, or what consideration they received for signing the contract. If JB got a good contract lawyer to write the paper it's probably legal. 

 

[Absolom]

Somewhere in all the info that has come out this week, I heard that Jinger and Jeremy negotiated their own contract directly with TLC.  This is not shocking as Jeremy was a reasonably functioning adult who had had contracts when he joined the circus.  So all of the kids are signed up with JB's LLC except Jinger and Jill or were at that time.  

[GeeGolly]

Didn't Jessa post a picture of her and Ben at TLC headquarters and it was assumed they signed their own contract as well?

[poeticlicensed]

10 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Somewhere in all the info that has come out this week, I heard that Jinger and Jeremy negotiated their own contract directly with TLC.  This is not shocking as Jeremy was a reasonably functioning adult who had had contracts when he joined the circus.  So all of the kids are signed up with JB's LLC except Jinger and Jill or were at that time.  

Part of the problem with leading a cloistered life is that you lack basic life skills, like recognizing you need to get paid for your labor. Its pretty twisted that the people who are supposed to teach you those things are the ones taking advantage of you. 

[Tuxcat]

10 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Somewhere in all the info that has come out this week, I heard that Jinger and Jeremy negotiated their own contract directly with TLC.  This is not shocking as Jeremy was a reasonably functioning adult who had had contracts when he joined the circus.  So all of the kids are signed up with JB's LLC except Jinger and Jill or were at that time.  

All so confusing.

Jill and Jinger were signed for five more years in 2014. Derick presumably never signed anything?

Derick was working at as an accountant at Wal-Mart in early 2015. But then he quit with the desire to become lifelong missionaries. People thought this was because he wanted to get away from the very first scandal  - but the Dillard Family Ministry was actually  founded in 2014.

In mid- 2015 after the show was renamed to "Jill and Jessa Counting On," Derick likely thought the name fame would bring in the needed donations -  and so he used that moment to quit and pursue "mission work."

Things were likely fine for Derick as they were funded by donations and also the Duggar provided house and cars in Arkansas. But... 

Then along comes Jeremy on the show in 2016 and negotiates his own contracts. The show is increasingly focusing on the Vuolo's. Dillards don't get the most positive press regarding their donations schemes.  And  Derick proceeds to realize he's totally stuck? His wife is pimped out until 2019 and Derick has zero autonomy - another baby on the way - and no idea what to do.

Does that sound right?

They are offered a lump sum with strings ... and flips out. Gets a lawyer. Goes on a tweet storm. "Parts ways"

He's at the bottom of the barrel in terms of public opinion.

Then - he rehabilitates himself by being at his wife's side during her greatest trial - the trial. He goes to law school and does his cryptic tweeting. And now he's ready to tell HER story!

[crazy8s]

I have doubts Josiah would sign either. He and Lauren seem to value privacy for their family.  Josiah can certainly work for FIL Dwain, who is running the same buy cheap lots in Bella Vista, slap up a house and have realtor Joe sell it for $400,000+ type business as the Duggars are currently doing.

If I remember correctly Josiah has a general contractor's license, CDL license and pilot's license.

[GeeGolly]

What's confusing is Jill must have already been under contract because she was 23 when she married Derick so why the need for a new contract for her?

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

What's confusing is Jill must have already been under contract because she was 23 when she married Derick so why the need for a new contract for her?

Jill signed the contract the day before her wedding. I guess JB wanted to pin her down to make sure he got the profits from that ratings bonanza. TLC likely informed him that weddings were huge draws. 

I assume the new contract locked her in to the wedding and future birthday. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[poeticlicensed]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

What's confusing is Jill must have already been under contract because she was 23 when she married Derick so why the need for a new contract for her?

The way networks set up reality shows is that they tell the participants to set up an LLC and they sign a contract with the LLC, not the individuals. So the contracts, at least initially are with their own LLC, not TLC. I figure they sued whoever was in charge of the LLC, not TLC.  Probably  Jimboob

Edited June 3, 2023 by poeticlicensed

[Absolom]

Periodically the TLC contracts had to be renewed.  They are typically for a base period plus option periods.  So at the expiration of all options a new contract has to be negotiated.  The terms might change and thus JB would need new signatures.

My interpretation would be that if JB's terms with TLC changed, then he'd need to change the terms of the contract the LLC had with his children.  

[GeeGolly]

7 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Jill signed the contract the day before her wedding. I guess JB wanted to pin her down to make sure he got the profits from that ratings bonanza. TLC likely informed him that weddings were huge draws. 

I assume the new contract locked her in to the wedding and future birthday. 

So it was a coincidence the old contract expired right before the wedding?

And what about Derick's mom and step-dad? One would think they would have asked Derick about contracts and stuff.

Not saying JB didn't take advantage of them, but everything feels a little off.

[Tuxcat]

30 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

So it was a coincidence the old contract expired right before the wedding?

And what about Derick's mom and step-dad? One would think they would have asked Derick about contracts and stuff.

Not saying JB didn't take advantage of them, but everything feels a little off.

I am sure there is more to all the stories. The contract that was dated 2012 was the one that had Michelle sign on behalf of all the children (even the ones that were adults). The one that was dated 2014 was when the adult children signed individually. 

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, poeticlicensed said:

Again I never watched the show so I have no specific opinions on any of the Duggars or spouses, but it seemed like Jill's and Derrick seemed to be mostly upset about the lack of pay and the contract manipulation. I didn't hear a lot of criticism about how she was raised or how her sibs or others were treated by family or the church. I mean yeah escaping a cult is tough. I didn't hear her bemoaning her lack of education and limited opportunities or how she was disciplined. I get that theygot ripped off Jim Bob and Michelle, but I'm wondering if they would be speaking out if JB had freely shared the $$$

I watched the show from the very first special, and, imo, Jill and Derick would still be happily doing the show if it weren't for the JB's shadiness and greed. Jill, as described by her parents, her siblings, and herself, had always been the poster child for IBLP principals. Her personality is perfectly suited to that lifestyle, and it doesn't seem that she ever needed much, if any, "encouragement" from Michelle and JB. I think, for her, Josh's abuse was an asterisk in an otherwise happy childhood. She can look back now and acknowledge that some of her parents' rules were weird and ridiculous, but overall, and like she herself has stated, she doesn't plan on doing much different with her own kids. That's why she didn't contribute anything substantive to the docuseries....her experience growing up in IBLP was largely positive, and her grievances have little to with IBLP directly. 

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Episode 3.  Why did Derrick pick JB as a prayer partner?  What was the point?  Was it so he could meet Jill? When he described it, it didn’t seem that way.  

 

Another way that the producers dropped the ball. If Derick was going to mention seeking out JB as a prayer partner, where were the questions asking why? What did Derick see in JB that make him want him as a prayer partner? All he could have know about him was what he saw on tv and what he'd hears from the local...what could have possibly attracted him to a man with such abhorrent beliefs? That Derick seemingly hasn't reflected on this confirms for me that his believes haven't changed all that much. 

[Nysha]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Didn't Jessa post a picture of her and Ben at TLC headquarters and it was assumed they signed their own contract as well?

 

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Somewhere in all the info that has come out this week, I heard that Jinger and Jeremy negotiated their own contract directly with TLC.  This is not shocking as Jeremy was a reasonably functioning adult who had had contracts when he joined the circus.  So all of the kids are signed up with JB's LLC except Jinger and Jill or were at that time.  

The 2014 contract was for 5 years. Jill & Derick stopped appearing in 2017. My guess is that was when the show went from "Jill & Jessa, Counting On" to just "Counting On" a new contract was written and that's when Jinger & Jeremy went off on their own.

 

Jill & Derick seemed willing to sign until they found out it was forever. If they had realized they could have signed with TLC for a set time and not with JB, they probably would have stuck with the show.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, Nysha said:

 

The 2014 contract was for 5 years. Jill & Derick stopped appearing in 2017. My guess is that was when the show went from "Jill & Jessa, Counting On" to just "Counting On" a new contract was written and that's when Jinger & Jeremy went off on their own.

 

Jill & Derick seemed willing to sign until they found out it was forever. If they had realized they could have signed with TLC for a set time and not with JB, they probably would have stuck with the show.

Jill and Jessa: Counting On lasted just a handful of episodes in 2015 before it was renamed. Not enough reason to re up on contracts that had been only negotiated the year before. It's hard to say when/if JinJer got their own deal. They weren't married until Nov. 2016. Jinger would have been on the group contract at the time of her wedding. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Salacious Kitty
Messed up JinJer's wedding date.

[Tuxcat]

15 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

hey weren't married until Nov. 2015. Jinger would have been on the group contract at the time of her wedding. 

Jinger was married in Nov. 2016 - though your point is still well taken.

------------

Side note, is anyone following Tia on instagram. She is posting processing slides and they are powerful. I thought this one was very interesting given Jill and Jinger's alignment with both the Calvinists and and the Southern Baptists.  

Tia lists all the instagram handles for the IBLP survivors. She does not list Jill. In my opinion Jill is on a different journey at the moment even though the documentary meant to imply that she was on the same one. Yes, I know it will look different for everyone. I just found it interesting that the documentary lumped them all together.

 

 

 

[Salacious Kitty]

Oops! That was a typo. I'll correct.😃

[Tachi Rocinante]

World population is a myth?

Beating/spanking a 14 month old continuously?

Huckabee defending JB?

These people deserve time.

[Salacious Kitty]

19 minutes ago, Tachi Rocinante said:

World population is a myth?

Beating/spanking a 14 month old continuously?

Huckabee defending JB?

These people deserve time.

I read today that the woman who beat her 14 month old was herself a victim of domestic violence. Thankfully for her, the husband left her for a younger woman. They were a highly respected IBLP power couple before the Duggars were on the scene. I believe that they had 9 kids together. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[SunnyBeBe]

Episode 4.  So, is Jill homeschooling?  Just curious.  I suppose there are ways to do it that aren’t harmful.  
 

I’m so glad that some of the people who suffered have triumphed over their constraints.  A lot don’t make it due to addictions, mental pain, and displacement.  I’ve tried to locate the Fundie recovery site I used to visit, but I can’t locate it.  It wasn’t by a Gothard, though. It was an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, which includes sister churches with former Falwell church in VA.  
 

 

[MamaGee]

On 5/19/2023 at 10:37 AM, Zella said:

I have no interest in anything Derick or Dipshit Amy has to say because I don't think either of them has a shred of credibility. 

I never watched the "Counting..." show religiously (pun intended) so I don't understand this quote. Can someone enlighten me?

[Zella]

7 minutes ago, MamaGee said:

I never watched the "Counting..." show religiously (pun intended) so I don't understand this quote. Can someone enlighten me?

I've never watched the show either. But Derick and Amy have repeatedly contradicted themselves on social media, to the point that if they told me the sky was blue, I'd have to look outside before accepting that. 

[Albanyguy]

7 hours ago, Zella said:

I've never watched the show either. But Derick and Amy have repeatedly contradicted themselves on social media, to the point that if they told me the sky was blue, I'd have to look outside before accepting that. 

In addition, they were both fond of teasing their followers by dropping broad hints that they knew all kinds of deep, dark secrets about life with the Duggars that they would reveal when the time was right. Then Derick would claim that he was saving it all for a book he was supposedly writing and Amy would claim that her hands were tied by an NDA that Jim Bob made her sign.

[floridamom]

So, Jill's issues aren't with the way she was raised, IBLP, etc. The Dillards are mad about the $$$? Jim Bob should have NEVER screwed his children, adult or minor ones either. As a good parent, regardless of religious beliefs of not, a good parent provides for their children's future by setting aside money for them for their work on a TV show IMO. What awful, selfish parents Jim Bob AND Michelle are. They really don't give a crap about their kids, do they?

[GeeGolly]

I would have been surprised if Jill had spoken out against the way she was raised, because she has said and shown she's okay with much of it. That's where I get confused. Jinger wrote specifically about how aspects of her upbringing negatively impacted her and its dismissed because she's a helpmeet. Then Derick's rage against JB somehow made Jill the Hero Breakaway Kid.

Jill as with anyone, famous or not famous, has the right to tell their story and share whatever they want with the public, but I find the continued rehashing of this financial feud curious. As I've said before, it seems to me that Derick is the only one who benefits from it.

 

[ginger90]

46 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

but I find the continued rehashing of this financial feud curious

Considering this was settled, and never made it to court, to my knowledge, I’m surprised there wasn’t a NDA attached. Perhaps that’s something Jim Bob wanted, and didn’t get?

[Showthyme]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I would have been surprised if Jill had spoken out against the way she was raised, because she has said and shown she's okay with much of it. That's where I get confused. Jinger wrote specifically about how aspects of her upbringing negatively impacted her and its dismissed because she's a helpmeet. Then Derick's rage against JB somehow made Jill the Hero Breakaway Kid.

Jill as with anyone, famous or not famous, has the right to tell their story and share whatever they want with the public, but I find the continued rehashing of this financial feud curious. As I've said before, it seems to me that Derick is the only one who benefits from it.

 

It is a process. There is so much for them to emotionally unpack. Jill and Jinger still live in a bubble therefore, I don’t think they struggle as much as those that had to escape with literally nothing and had to navigate the real world. 
 

Jill and Jinger still make their money from social media and many of their followers are religious. They are not going to show all of their cards at once or do it in an aggressive manner. What would be left to sell?
 

Both women still seem very traumatized. It is heartbreaking. The husbands are in a difficult position because it really isn’t their story to tell and I think that they also bought into the Duggar story without understanding the JB and Michelle were the only beneficiaries of 19+. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Showthyme