Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets - General Discussion

[SMama]

55 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

He predictably denounces the docuseries and cries about being in the public eye. Says they love every member of their family (sure Jan) and handle disagreements in private. 

Whatever. 

Because handling sexual assault in private really worked out so well for the family. 

Im confused about the timeline. Derick said they were engaged when the sexual assault was made public. I thought during the MK interview they were married and had Israel. 

[Salacious Kitty]

2 minutes ago, SMama said:

Because handling sexual assault in private really worked out so well for the family. 

Im confused about the timeline. Derick said they were engaged when the sexual assault was made public. I thought during the MK interview they were married and had Israel. 

Yes, it was June 2015. Izzy was an infant, and Jessa was pregnant with Spooge.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Salacious Kitty
Rouge comma!

[Zella]

1 minute ago, SMama said:

I thought during the MK interview they were married and had Israel. 

You are correct. He is full of shit. It broke in the spring of 2015. Israel was a few weeks old at the time. 

[lascuba]

Amy is--shockingly--not annoying me all that much.

I'm only one episode in but it feels like this series can't decide what it wants to be about, IBLP or the Duggars and thir assorted scandals. They're connected of course, but the storytelling feels disjointed. 

Jill so far hasn't said anything we don't already know, which I expected. Amy has offered more details of the Duggar household than Jill has. If the producers are going to spend so much time on the Duggar family, I'd have hoped there would be some new insights. How was it growing up in that house, exactly. I'm not even talking about Josh, but more like what was the environment like behind the cameras. Jill doesnt want to discuss the abuse and she therefore shouldn't, but aside from that, she's so far confirming my assumption that for her, the worst things about growing up Duggar was the In Touch story and the JB/TLC money issues. And for a docuseries that's ostensibly about the harm IBLP does to families, that's a really confusing editorial choice. 

[mom2two]

Episode 2 goes more into how bad Gothard is/was, bringing in other ex-IBPL. I felt so sorry for the woman who married and got abused .  Also the pearls are brought up.  

 

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by mom2two

[oliviabenson]

$18 million wow. No wonder everyone is always on vacation. Jim Bob must have given all the adult kids a trust fund/payout of some kind.

[lascuba]

9 minutes ago, SMama said:

Im confused about the timeline. Derick said they were engaged when the sexual assault was made public. I thought during the MK interview they were married and had Israel. 

That was weird, because earlier he said they had discussed the abuse as a married couple before the story broke. The best I can figure is that he was trying to comment on how awful it was for In Touch to break the story when he hadn't even known about it when they were engaged. Meaning it's so personal that it should only be discussed with Ines spouse. 

Or he's just having trouble keeping his lies straight.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, crazy8s said:

It has dropped on Prime - I am watching episode 1 now

I just watched episode 1 on the East coast.  I thought it was pretty good.  No big surprises, of course, but a good review of the Duggars, TLC and Gothard history.  Some of it, I didn’t know and I watched every season. I’m plenty familiar with Fundie stuff though…unfortunately.  It still makes me angry and sick to see that stuff. Ugh…….I’ll look forward to the remaining episodes, though I’m not up to it tonight.  
 

I do think that after that episode…..it would hurt my heart to go to bed tonight as a Duggar….it has to sting….even if you did nothing wrong.  

Edited June 2, 2023 by SunnyBeBe

[jschoolgirl]

I wonder who wrote JB’s statement.

Edited June 2, 2023 by jschoolgirl

[AstridM]

6 minutes ago, oliviabenson said:

$18 million wow. No wonder everyone is always on vacation. Jim Bob must have given all the adult kids a trust fund/payout of some kind.

Hope they don’t spend it all too quickly . . . 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, jschoolgirl said:

I wonder who wrote JB’s statement.

I wondered the same thing. 

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

I wondered the same thing. 

Probably Jed! 🙄

[GeeGolly]

One episode was enough for me tonight as well. I might need to rewatch the first one. Other than Holt (and Amy slightly) it seems to me its not blowing up the Duggars in a terribly awful light. So far, to me anyway, it shows why and what the Duggars got caught up in and how they were used by Gothard.

[SMama]

9 minutes ago, jschoolgirl said:

I wonder who wrote JB’s statement.

Someone who was willing to take a swipe at a sexual assault victim. 

[Tuxcat]

22 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I'm only one episode in but it feels like this series can't decide what it wants to be about, IBLP or the Duggars and thir assorted scandals. They're connected of course, but the storytelling feels disjointed

This disjointed storytelling continues throughout. It's bouncing around. Jill has not said anything we did not know before.... yet. I am in the middle of episode 3. I don't like Derick but I do like him in this - he's being respectfully quiet enough for me. 

The series actually talks about the "resolving conflicts privately" as the mantra of the IBLP - which is hilarious because that is exactly what Duggar's family statement says. Makes me wonder if Duggar even watched this.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Tuxcat

[babyhouseman]

You can watch the first three episodes without signing up for anything, but there are commercials. It's Amazon Freevee. I've used to watch shows.

Jim Bob's donkey grin is the first thing you see. 

[AstridM]

20 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Probably Jed! 🙄

Nah, he’s far less educated than JB. But inherited his entitlement and need to force his beliefs on others. 

[Notabug]

First hour is pretty standard 'setting the scene'.  Second episode delves into IBLP and Gothard and includes the stories of multiple other people raised in IBLP who have now left.  Haven't gotten into Gothard's crimes yet, but it seems to be coming.

It is weird seeing the Holts together and showing affection when we know what happens in just a few months after this was filmed.  It is pretty obvious that neither one has any use whatsoever for JB and also pretty obvious that they know where some bodies are buried when it comes to the Duggars and there's even worse stuff that we haven't heard.  Both very disgusted by the way the Duggars used their daughter to try to force Josh to behave himself and seemed to feel that JB&M didn't do nearly enough to protect their daughters and to help Josh.

Quite a bit of discussion about how children are raised and a couple of the ex-IBLPers said they knew from the first time they watched the show that the Duggar kids had been raised in fear like they were.  They talked about the regular beatings they received.

Some discussion of homeschooling along with speculation that it is encouraged, at least in part, in order to keep the kids away from anyone who might ask too many questions.  Wisdom booklets explained along with examples and a couple former IBLP kids state that they were poorly educated.  One never learned math beyond fractions because her father said that was all she needed to figure out recipes for cooking.

Discussion of the Pearls and their methods, how Gothard heartily endorsed them and recommended their books.  Some creepy video of Michael Pearl pulling a little boy out of the audience to demonstrate how to properly beat a child into submission and then force him to hug  and thank you for it.

A couple ex IBLPers talked specifically about blanket training and we get Michelle talking about how important it is to use it.  A couple of the women commented on becoming 'buddies' with younger sibs and how hard it is to be 11 and take care of a baby full time and realize you're no longer allowed to be a kid.

Amy talks about the Duggar kids getting beaten.  Never in front of her.  Instead, the naughty kid would be invited to visit JB and Michelle's bedroom for some 'encouragement'.  JB and M threatened the kids with 'encouragement' all the time.

Deanna commented a little on her upbringing with JB, mainly that they were poor which we knew.  Amy mostly elaborated on specifics in the Duggar household that she saw.  It seemed like she was there, at least in part, because Jill was having a hard time talking about it.

Jill seems so emotionally fragile, was obviously pregnant with Freddy when this was filmed.  Derrick chimes in when Jill seems too emotional to speak, says almost nothing on his own.  Seems like he is there for emotional support.  My heart hurt when watching her.

Final point:  The word 'cult' is used repeatedly throughout the first two episodes to describe IBLP and it is even compared to Scientology.  How IBLP used the Duggar's TV fame to spread their manure is also a focus.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Notabug

[AstridM]

12 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

This disjointed storytelling continues throughout. It's bouncing around. Jill has not said anything we did not know before.... yet. I am in the middle of episode 3. I don't like Derick but I do like him in this - he's being respectfully quiet enough for me. 

The series actually talks about the "resolving conflicts privately" as the mantra of the IBLP - which is hilarious because that is exactly what Duggar's family statement says. Makes me wonder if Duggar even watched this.

They won’t watch it, nor will they read Jill’s book, but they’ll be out there passing judgment on them both, just as they do with most things they don’t understand. 

[Tuxcat]

Okay episode four is talking about the larger evangelical movement to move Christians into government against the culture crisis.  "they are playing the long game and looking generations ahead to further the christian agenda.... the rise of Christian influencers..."

This is interesting given Derick/Jill and even Amy's participation. I wonder if they knew this would be included.

[SMama]

Jill used the word cult, good for her.

Dillon describing himself as emotional support husband cracked me up. Also his reaction to Michelle’s baby voice.

Tampons = devil sticks in IBLP and are confiscated. WTAF

He picked you to marry his most beautiful and intelligent daughter. Fucking evil whoever sent that awful text to Derick. 

Had Jessa married first would she have been JB’s most beautiful and intelligent daughter? 
 

Edited June 2, 2023 by SMama

[CalicoKitty]

Just finished all 4 episodes.  I think this was pretty well done.  For people who only know a little about the Duggars, I think this series was very eye-opening.  I thought Derick was very supportive and did a good job.  I feel even more sorry for what Jill has gone through.  Hopefully this will give people an insight into IBLP and information to think about before they get involved.  Amy's husband is kind of quirky, but I thought she did a pretty good job in a non-annoying way.  I agree with @Notabugthat it was strange to see the Holts together when we know what happened to them recently.  I'm still amazed that JB told Mr Holt (forgot his first name) that their daughter would be told about Josh's sexual molestations after they were married.  I'm glad the Holt daughter escaped that situation.  The Bateses were only shown for a few seconds while singing, but the logo for their show was flashed along with other TLC programs.  So at least they were mentioned as being in the same "cult".  Some of the "survivors" comments and life stories were very compelling.  This is worth the time to watch, in my opinion.

[Salacious Kitty]

7 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Just finished all 4 episodes.  I think this was pretty well done.  For people who only know a little about the Duggars, I think this series was very eye-opening.  I thought Derick was very supportive and did a good job.  I feel even more sorry for what Jill has gone through.  Hopefully this will give people an insight into IBLP and information to think about before they get involved.  Amy's husband is kind of quirky, but I thought she did a pretty good job in a non-annoying way.  I agree with @Notabugthat it was strange to see the Holts together when we know what happened to them recently.  I'm still amazed that JB told Mr Holt (forgot his first name) that their daughter would be told about Josh's sexual molestations after they were married.  I'm glad the Holt daughter escaped that situation.  The Bateses were only shown for a few seconds while singing, but the logo for their show was flashed along with other TLC programs.  So at least they were mentioned as being in the same "cult".  Some of the "survivors" comments and life stories were very compelling.  This is worth the time to watch, in my opinion.

Mr. Holt's name is Jim. Not a lot of originality in AR c.1965. 😃

[CalicoKitty]

Thanks.  The Holts are not in my immediate universe, so I forgot his name.

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, CalicoKitty said:

Thanks.  The Holts are not in my immediate universe, so I forgot his name.

I'm glad I got reports about how strange it was to see him and Bobye together, knowing what we do now. 

[StaceyNotStacie]

I ended up watching all four episodes this evening. The flow was pretty good as in the episodes were only about 40 minutes long and it went by quickly. 
 

Now knowing that JB and Michelle had them sign contracts not knowing what they were and also signing for them, it makes me wonder if Derrick went to law school just to figure out how much JB screwed them over. 

[oliviabenson]

1 hour ago, AstridM said:

Hope they don’t spend it all too quickly . . . 

A few are always on vacation! 

[MaryAnneSpier]

I finished the series. Two thoughts for now:

1. IBLP is a couple of times referred to as a "cult" without really delving into what that truly means. I think that word is thrown around a little too loosely these days and I wish they'd spent some time exploring that and what it means. 

2. Paul and Morgan had a brief interview?!? They were barely in it, and I'm very curious to know what was cut out. When they showed the montage of Christian influencers, I knew who nearly all of them were. I guess I've been involved in this a little longer and more deeply than I realized. 

[Zella]

Just now, MaryAnneSpier said:

Paul and Morgan had a brief interview?!? They were barely in it, and I'm very curious to know what was cut out.

In what context did they appear? The news they were in this made me side-eye the documentary makers pretty hard. 

[MaryAnneSpier]

The context of now Fundies have kind of shifted their "outreach" to online platforms now to spread the message. JB and M used television back in the day to share their ministry, and now it's shifted to a different medium basically.

[Zella]

Just now, MaryAnneSpier said:

The context of now Fundies have kind of shifted their "outreach" to online platforms now to spread the message. JB and M used television back in the day to share their ministry, and now it's shifted to a different medium basically.

Interesting. I still don't really understand why Paul and Morgan specifically need to talk about it, especially since they have no connection to Gothard or IBLP that I'm aware of. (That's not directed at you. It's still directed at the documentary makers.) 

[Tuxcat]

26 minutes ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

Now knowing that JB and Michelle had them sign contracts not knowing what they were and also signing for them, it makes me wonder if Derrick went to law school just to figure out how much JB screwed them over. 

I wonder if TLC is in a big mess. They listed the kids as minors and had Michelle sign for them - but those kids were adults at the time. That seems pretty damning.

 

8 minutes ago, Zella said:

Interesting. I still don't really understand why Paul and Morgan specifically need to talk about it, especially since they have no connection to Gothard or IBLP that I'm aware of. (That's not directed at you. It's still directed at the documentary makers.) 

The show pivoted to extend from the focus on the IBLP to the larger Christian movement --- those entering into politics from the "Joshua movement" and those influencers loudly launching campaigns against transgenders for example - to reclaim christian values. 

 

 

[Tdoc72]

Wonder if JRod knows she makes a quick appearance?

Overall, it was really good. And while I would probably disagree w/Jill & Derek on a bunch of things, I do think it takes strength to go against family. I hope some of her siblings are supportive. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Tdoc72

[Gemma Violet]

3 hours ago, AstridM said:

They won’t watch it

Oh, I think the Duggars will all watch it, with the possible exception of Michelle.  Jim Bob will watch it for sure.  Correction:  Jim Bob probably has already watched the entire thing.

[Jeeves]

2 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

Wonder if JRod knows she makes a quick appearance?

Overall, it was really good. And while I would probably disagree w/Jill & Derek on a bunch of things, I do think it takes strength to go against family. I hope some of her siblings are supportive. 

Oh dang! I missed JRod! I just binge watched all of it in my hotel room in London (thank you, VPN) but there was some buffering and at times I was listening without looking.

Not much surprised me, but then I was never a Duggar fan, and thanks to the innerntez I found out about Gothard and IBLP and all the nitty gritty stuff that TLC kinda forgot to make clear in its own march to cable TV success, if not complete domination. 

My first thought about Paul and Morgan are that they were picked for very short clips just to illustrate that the fundie evangelical movement is continuing via social media, as @MaryAnneSpier said. Maybe they were the only fundie influencers who would agree to appear. IMO they came across as nice young airheads for Jesus, in the clips that were used they were prettifying up the rule that women must submit to their husbands. Gosh, giggle, eye rolls, ain't we cute. **vomit**

I don't think TLC's in any legal trouble. The only people who can complain about Meech/JB signing contracts for them as minors, when they were over 18, are the kids in question. Sounds like they have now all signed up with lifetime deals with JB - except Jill. 

Anyway, I'm glad I had the time, and the hotel wifi bandwidth, to watch this today. I don't expect it to have any real effect on the power of the fundies, but I believe it does present information that we've known about, to a wider audience than may have been exposed to it before. 

[GeeGolly]

I only watched the first episode, but from what Jill said in that episode and from what I'm reading here, it almost seems as if she was a sacrificial lamb to give the Duggar slant more legitimacy.

The first two things she said were, I don't really want to do this and I want to be able to control what is said. Yet she had no control over what was said, the questions asked to her or what the series aired. Its hard to watch Jill continue to be manipulated and her only obvious supports are a vengeful husband, an attention whore cousin and a truly bat shit crazy aunt. 

There is no way this can be easy for her, especially while still having one foot in both worlds. This is not a way I rooted for a Duggar kidult to "break free" at all.

[dariafan]

Dear llama above Jim Bob dies love the sound of his own voice 

[GeeGolly]

Oh and if anyone doubts Deanna is bat shit crazy just take a look at her IG. Its crazy and crazy sad.

[merylinkid]

If Bobye Holt does know where the Duggar bodies are buried, I hope she spills big time now that she is free.   FF might be the worst scandal, but its not the only one.

[GeeGolly]

Just now, merylinkid said:

If Bobye Holt does know where the Duggar bodies are buried, I hope she spills big time now that she is free.   FF might be the worst scandal, but its not the only one.

I wonder if doing the docuseries opened her eyes a little wider and it was what let her know she needed to, and could, leave her husband.

[Stevie Nicks]

9 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I'm glad I got reports about how strange it was to see him and Bobye together, knowing what we do now. 

I'm not very well versed on the Holts. Basically I know nothing much about them except for reading their names here and that Jim was a friend of JimBlobs. What happened with them? I just started the Netflix series. 

[GeeGolly]

11 minutes ago, Stevie Nicks said:

I'm not very well versed on the Holts. Basically I know nothing much about them except for reading their names here and that Jim was a friend of JimBlobs. What happened with them? I just started the Netflix series. 

A very quick rundown...

The Holts and Duggars were BFFS with Jim and JB's friendship starting in childhood. Their two oldest were to be married - but, well Josh. Bobye Holt recently was granted a life restraining order against her husband.

[crazy8s]

My thoughts after watching the whole thing. First - do take the content warnings seriously. The stories told certainly dragged up unpleasant things in my mind that I hadn't thought of in many, many years.

If you are hoping for Jill to really blast Jb and Meech about how they raised her, this does not happen. No condemnation for how they handled the sexual assaults and the contract stuff was more just stating facts.

I wonder about the editing for Jill. Would her memories of ATI/IBLP been explored more if there hadn't been so much available video of the duggar family?  It seemed to me she would just briefly state we went to ATI camp every year or we used ATI home school  and it immediately cut to show JB or Meech doing whatever Jill mentioned. Jill never says how that upbringing was for her. When the instant obedience teaching is mentioned she certainly doesn't say "we use that method with our boys".  Amy is the one who gives a few glimpses into the IBLP teachings at the TTH.

I also think maybe Jill chose not to focus on that part of her story. She wanted to speak her truth about the abuse going public and then the TLC contract issues.

Dillon with Amy was not bad but a better pairing might have been Deanna and Amy. I have doubts Deanna knew nothing. Would Mary never have said a word to Deanna?

The others that grew up in IBLP had the stronger stories of how gothards teachings effected them and their families. Very compelling and sometimes graphic stories that really shed the light on the IBLP teachings. It was good they had some men share their stories. I think often we veer toward men/boys in these cults are worshiped and do no wrong, abuse happens mostly to the girls women and such.

The guy telling about being a young child beaten in a church bathroom for an hour by his mother because she needed to break his will was heartbreaking. The end line "this is a funny story in my family, everyone laughs but me." This is exactly the discipline Jill Rodrigues is referring to when she tells of Timothy being a whiny, strong willed child and that she and hubby had to be diligent in correcting each and every minor infraction until they broke his willfulness and Timothy became a joy to have in their home. ☹️

Overall a good balance, some unnecessary characters, the fundie friday person really added nothing. The quick clip of Jill R about women should dress modestly was unexpected and made me laugh.

 

[Llywela]

38 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

The Holts and Duggars were BFFS with Jim and JB's friendship starting in childhood. Their two oldest were to be married - but, well Josh. Bobye Holt recently was granted a life restraining order against her husband.

Bobye was 14 years old when someone set her up on a blind date with 19 year old Jim, they tell us in episode one of this docu-series - Jim hastily adds that he had no idea, he was told she was older, she looked mature. But finding out her real age didn't stop him continuing to date her and then marry her when she was of age.

I've never watched any of the Duggar shows, but I have lurked in this forum for a few years - ever since the Josh scandal broke and I came here to find out more, since it was the first I'd ever heard of these people. I figured I would watch this docu-series. One episode down, three to go...

[Notabug]

3 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Bobye was 14 years old when someone set her up on a blind date with 19 year old Jim, they tell us in episode one of this docu-series - Jim hastily adds that he had no idea, he was told she was older, she looked mature. But finding out her real age didn't stop him continuing to date her and then marry her when she was of age.

I've never watched any of the Duggar shows, but I have lurked in this forum for a few years - ever since the Josh scandal broke and I came here to find out more, since it was the first I'd ever heard of these people. I figured I would watch this docu-series. One episode down, three to go...

Yes, I thought it was rather telling of Jim Holt's mindset that he seems to think it is kinda cute that he was dating a junior high aged girl when he was a grown man.  It probably explains a lot about the nature of the relationship and why Bobbye now has a lifetime restraining order against him.

[madpsych78]

12 hours ago, SMama said:

Because handling sexual assault in private really worked out so well for the family. 

Im confused about the timeline. Derick said they were engaged when the sexual assault was made public. I thought during the MK interview they were married and had Israel. 

I'm watching Episode 2 now. Derick said that he didn't know about the sexual assault when they were engaged - meaning, that that was something that would be reasonable to know when at that level of commitment. I don't think it has to do with the timeline of when the information was made public and their marital status.

[lascuba]

51 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

I also think maybe Jill chose not to focus on that part of her story. She wanted to speak her truth about the abuse going public and then the TLC contract issues.

 

That's the impression I got as well. The problem is that this series is supposed to be about IBLP specifically, so it made no sense for Jill to be in it other than getting eyes on the screen.

It would make much more sense for her to be in a docuseries about kids who grew up on reality tv/social media. There's been a lot of discussion on the topic recently, with the first generation of family blogger children reaching adulthood.

 

Quote

Dillon with Amy was not bad but a better pairing might have been Deanna and Amy. I have doubts Deanna knew nothing. Would Mary never have said a word to Deanna?

I was surprised that Deanna and JB grew up in such a strict household, considering how JB always described their father. If Mary was that religious, I'm not surprise she wouldn't share anything about JB with Deanna.

Edited June 2, 2023 by lascuba

[Libby]

Jim Holt said that Jim Bob accused him of being jealous of him. Holt answered that he wouldn't ever want Jim Bob's life. Even after everything that's happened with Josh, Jim Bob sees his life as something to be envied. In light of the problems surrounding his son, I think Jim Bob should view his life as horrific. He really doesn't seem to understand how sickening and horrible having a son like Josh is. He also doesn't seem to understand how dangerous Josh is to other people, especially to all of the Duggar children and grandchildren. Jim Bob's level of delusion regarding the Josh issue is dangerous and scary.

[Natalie68]

11 hours ago, StaceyNotStacie said:

I ended up watching all four episodes this evening. The flow was pretty good as in the episodes were only about 40 minutes long and it went by quickly. 
 

Now knowing that JB and Michelle had them sign contracts not knowing what they were and also signing for them, it makes me wonder if Derrick went to law school just to figure out how much JB screwed them over. 

That is what I have always thought.  And to make sure it never happens again.

[Natalie68]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh and if anyone doubts Deanna is bat shit crazy just take a look at her IG. Its crazy and crazy sad.

Just looked.  She is a musician?  Huh.