Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets - General Discussion

[Scarlett45]

Quote

 A limited docuseries exposing the truth beneath the wholesome Americana surface of reality tv’s favorite mega-family, The Duggars, and the radical organization behind them: The Institute in Basic Life Principles. As details of the family and their scandals unfold, we realize they’re part of an insidious, much larger threat already in motion, with democracy itself in peril.

 

Air Date: June 2, 2023

[oliviabenson]

I bet Jim Bob is sweating bullets. 

[Salacious Kitty]

You have to wonder if Jill gave him a heads up that she was going to be part of this. 

[Salacious Kitty]

From Jill's thread regarding the Holts' involvement in this.

It will be interesting to watch their body language knowing now that Jim had been beating Bobye and one of their sons. They both got 10 year protection orders against Jim. 

[lascuba]

30 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

From Jill's thread regarding the Holts' involvement in this.

It will be interesting to watch their body language knowing now that Jim had been beating Bobye and one of their sons. They both got 10 year protection orders against Jim. 

Wait...what?! This is the first I'm hearing about this!

[Salacious Kitty]

27 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Wait...what?! This is the first I'm hearing about this!

Yup. News of temporary protection orders broke about a month or two ago, and the judge recently granted the 10 year orders. 

[oliviabenson]

I am thrilled that Jim and Michelle fell from Grace. It’s nice that the public knows how horrible these people are! 
 

 

[jcbrown]

37 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Yup. News of temporary protection orders broke about a month or two ago, and the judge recently granted the 10 year orders. 

This is news to me, too. I don't read the sweet fellowship thread, is that how I missed it?

[Salacious Kitty]

Just now, jcbrown said:

This is news to me, too. I don't read the sweet fellowship thread, is that how I missed it?

Yes. I posted the initial court documents in that thread. Long buried in the Rodrigues noise. 

[smallfry]

I really hope we get some new dirt information about Jim Bob, even if it just a little morsel of something. I love that Jill is involved with this. I bet JB's head is about to explode! 

[awaken]

Well, I suppose their participation effectively ends any chance of reconciliation between J and D and JB. Apparently Famy and Deanna participated too. 

[ChristmasCandy]

What I really want to hear is what Famy is going to say.

[MaryAnneSpier]

2 hours ago, awaken said:

Well, I suppose their participation effectively ends any chance of reconciliation between J and D and JB. 

Sometimes, it’s best to just let some relationships end. Sharing DNA with someone doesn’t always mean reconciliation should happen.  I think if I were Jill, I’d go no contact with both my parents and my eldest brother because of all the years of emotional, spiritual, physical abuse they inflicted.  I know it gets complicated but I think for Jill’s well being, living her life and speaking her truth is more valuable than continuing in a relationship with toxic parents.  

[GeeGolly]

I haven't seen the trailer, does it show Jill saying anything negative about her parents? Even during Derick's fallout with JB over money the only negative remark I recall Jill saying is, her dad isn't the person she thought he was. Do we know if she's reached a point beyond that?

Also, I wonder when/if Jill told her parents about participating in the documentary. IIRC Michelle spent a couple weeks at Jill's after Freddy was born. And then there are those recent pics of Michelle with all the daughters, including Jill and Jinger.

Some folks were disappointed Jinger didn't straight up blame her parents for her issues with faith and the way she was raised. Its possible Jill won't either.

My hope is Jill is wherever she needs to be in regard to her relationship with her parents and siblings. If that means maintaining a relationship with them, that's okay. Every person is different.

[ginger90]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I haven't seen the trailer, does it show Jill saying anything negative about her parents?

The trailer can be seen in this article:

https://www.mother.ly/news/viral-trending/jill-duggar-documentary-shiny-happy-people/

[lascuba]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I haven't seen the trailer, does it show Jill saying anything negative about her parents? Even during Derick's fallout with JB over money the only negative remark I recall Jill saying is, her dad isn't the person she thought he was. Do we know if she's reached a point beyond that?

Also, I wonder when/if Jill told her parents about participating in the documentary. IIRC Michelle spent a couple weeks at Jill's after Freddy was born. And then there are those recent pics of Michelle with all the daughters, including Jill and Jinger.

Some folks were disappointed Jinger didn't straight up blame her parents for her issues with faith and the way she was raised. Its possible Jill won't either.

My hope is Jill is wherever she needs to be in regard to her relationship with her parents and siblings. If that means maintaining a relationship with them, that's okay. Every person is different.

No, she doesn't mention her parents at all in the trailer, just vague talk about telling her story. I get the impression that Jill and Derrick are going the Jinger route and giving JB/M the sympathetic victim edit. That the Holts are involved solidifies that assumption for me.

I know that people can change, but I have a huge problem with people who didn't just stop at being willing participants but worked to be thought leaders in their cult of choice, now claiming to have been hoodwinked all along. It comes across as a cynical grab for sympathy and power. Yeah, sure, they learned and grew...maybe. But if they're not publicly flagellating themselves over the harm they spent decades perpetuating, I'm not at all interested in what they have to say.

[floridamom]

Is there more than one part to this program? How would we know when the next one is set to air if so? Thanks again.

[Stevie Nicks]

16 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Is there more than one part to this program? How would we know when the next one is set to air if so? Thanks again.

Apparently there is. Either Prime will drop it all at one time, or it will be weekly til it's over. I wonder how much truth will actually be told by Jill.

[absnow54]

Here's the trailer:

 

[laurakaye]

10 hours ago, ChristmasCandy said:

What I really want to hear is what Famy is going to say.

I think I spotted Famy in the trailer.

This is going to be so interesting.  If this is part of Jill's healing from her toxic brother and parents, then good for her.

[GeeGolly]

I have no problem with Jill and Jinger not throwing their parents under the bus. They certainly seem to love them and I'm guessing they see the harm their faith caused as a side effect of what was JB&M's good intentions.

IMO, JB&M bought (still buying?) into Gothard hook, line and sinker. I think they suck as parents, but I really don't think they knew the harm they were causing. Cults rely on brainwashing and I see no reason to believe JB&M weren't cultified.

Cults, conspiracy theories, rabbit holes, etc, are strong in getting folks from all walks of life to believe some strange shit.

I will have a problem if Jill and Derick call out harmful parts of IBLP that Jill hasn't let go of yet. Derick, IMO is as harmful as JB&M, but he doesn't have the excuse of a cult.

[BetyBee]

I really think that we, who already are immersed in Duggar/Fundie stuff, will not likely learn anything new. I also think that Jill will not dis her parents, but will likely dis Gothard and IBLP. But I hope we do learn something new. I hope that we do see growth in Jill and possibly even the Holts. I have no expectation of anything interesting or new coming from Amy. I'll be watching!

[quarks]

1 hour ago, floridamom said:

Is there more than one part to this program? How would we know when the next one is set to air if so? Thanks again.

IMDB, which is not always accurate, appears to think that this will be a four part program.

Amazon Prime typically releases either one episode per week, or - for some shows - two episodes the first week, and then one episode a week after that.

Amazon Studios is currently facing a WGA strike and a probable SAG-AFTRA strike and a possible IATSE strike, so....my guess is that they will be doling out one episode at a time here.

[madpsych78]

This show makes it all the more interesting that Jinger went her own way and elected not to participate, given that she seemed to be basically spouting similar things except that she just did it first. Then again, Jinger may not be participating because she was motivated by her new cult to speak out. It could also be about the money as I suspect that neither Jill nor Amy would get paid to the same degree if at all for appearing on the documentary. 

[Absolom]

Rumor has it that Amazon did not pay participants so it could not be viewed that they were paying for people to say what Amazon wanted to hear/present.

[SunnyBeBe]

I wish I could find one of my post from years ago, where I voiced skepticism of the bright shining smiles we saw in the Duggar photos.  (Early days way before any scandals broke.) I think I used the term just like the docu series.  Others may have done the same.  

[BetyBee]

8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wish I could find one of my post from years ago, where I voiced skepticism of the bright shining smiles we saw in the Duggar photos.  (Early days way before any scandals broke.) I think I used the term just like the docu series.  Others may have done the same.  

You were ahead of the game, @SunnyBeBe! WTG!

[merylinkid]

1 hour ago, BetyBee said:

But I hope we do learn something new. I hope that we do see growth in Jill and possibly even the Holts.

We already know Bobbye Holt has had some growth.   She actually went and got a protective order against her husband.   Which is really not the whole worship the headship thing.   It is in fact, the exact opposite.   She is saying loud and clear what he did is NOT OKAY.

[Zella]

4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill saying anything negative about her parents? Even during Derick's fallout with JB over money the only negative remark I recall Jill saying is, her dad isn't the person she thought he was. Do we know if she's reached a point beyond that?

She's always been way more tactful and neutral than Derick about it. I've never gotten the impression that the estrangement/difficult relationship was something she wanted, but she seemed to be more okay with it--at least publicly--than Derick ever was. 

I am curious if she will stick to that in the show or not. I have no interest in anything Derick or Dipshit Amy has to say because I don't think either of them has a shred of credibility. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Zella

[lascuba]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I have no problem with Jill and Jinger not throwing their parents under the bus. They certainly seem to love them and I'm guessing they see the harm their faith caused as a side effect of what was JB&M's good intentions.

IMO, JB&M bought (still buying?) into Gothard hook, line and sinker. I think they suck as parents, but I really don't think they knew the harm they were causing. Cults rely on brainwashing and I see no reason to believe JB&M weren't cultified.

Cults, conspiracy theories, rabbit holes, etc, are strong in getting folks from all walks of life to believe some strange shit.

I will have a problem if Jill and Derick call out harmful parts of IBLP that Jill hasn't let go of yet. Derick, IMO is as harmful as JB&M, but he doesn't have the excuse of a cult.

I agree that, all things considered, JB/M genuinely love their kids think they did the best for them. And there have have a few former fundies over the years who've claimed that the Duggars were considered too liberal in their parenting in fundie circles. They are awful parents, but I don't think they were deliberately cruel.

But both JB and Holt ran for office on an essentially IBLP platform. That, imo, erases whatever sympathy they might deserve as "brainwashing" victims. Being in a position of social/political power should automatically mean that the victim label comes with major caveats.

Derick falling into the cult makes him even worse than JB. JB was an uneducated teen when he fell in. Derick went to college after being raised by a working mother, saw how objectively weird that Duggars are, and thought, "Yep, I want in." I know the experts say anyone can fall for a cult, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to judge those who do.

[xwordfanatik]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

We already know Bobbye Holt has had some growth.   She actually went and got a protective order against her husband.   Which is really not the whole worship the headship thing.   It is in fact, the exact opposite.   She is saying loud and clear what he did is NOT OKAY.

Did the woman that the FF stayed with do the same with her husband?  Or am I misremembering that?

[realityfan26]

17 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

From Jill's thread regarding the Holts' involvement in this.

It will be interesting to watch their body language knowing now that Jim had been beating Bobye and one of their sons. They both got 10 year protection orders against Jim. 

I also felt like I didn't remember this as I couldn't figure out how I could forget Jim beating Bobye. It was Jim Holt doing the beating, not Jim Bob!

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Did the woman that the FF stayed with do the same with her husband?  Or am I misremembering that?

I've never heard anything like that about the Rebers, and I am seeing no such filing publicly available. The Holt one is listed on Arkansas's Court Connect website. 

[Natalie68]

2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

This show makes it all the more interesting that Jinger went her own way and elected not to participate, given that she seemed to be basically spouting similar things except that she just did it first. Then again, Jinger may not be participating because she was motivated by her new cult to speak out. It could also be about the money as I suspect that neither Jill nor Amy would get paid to the same degree if at all for appearing on the documentary. 

According to the doc, no one got paid for participation.  They wanted to give it more credibility.

[merylinkid]

14 minutes ago, lascuba said:

B/M genuinely love their kids think they did the best for them. And there have have a few former fundies over the years who've claimed that the Duggars were considered too liberal in their parenting in fundie circles. They are awful parents, but I don't think they were deliberately cruel.

Yeah I don't think a woman who has to say "I had to pray to have a heart for children" really loves her kids.   Someone who was only too happy to turn over the raising of her kids to her daughters does not love her kids.

Also they BLANKETED TRAINED and promoted it as a good thing to do.  That is deliberately cruel.

Sorry not giving either JB or M any passes.   They were adults AND PARENTS when they decided to follow Gothard.   They had choices.   They chose poorly.   

[Natalie68]

1 minute ago, merylinkid said:

Yeah I don't think a woman who has to say "I had to pray to have a heart for children" really loves her kids.   Someone who was only too happy to turn over the raising of her kids to her daughters does not love her kids.

Also they BLANKETED TRAINED and promoted it as a good thing to do.  That is deliberately cruel.

Sorry not giving either JB or M any passes.   They were adults AND PARENTS when they decided to follow Gothard.   They had choices.   They chose poorly.   

The kids were a tool to prove JB's dick worked.  All about ego.  I could agree he loved his sons but his daughters?  

[GeeGolly]

I think Jinger has better 'supports' than Jill meaning, there is no way, no how I think Jinger would ever participate in a docuseries. To me doing the documentary is way different than telling your own story in a book, and likely comes with more repercussions. One could argue Jill is braver than Jinger, or maybe more naïve. But I guess that all depends on what Jill actually said to the cameras.

[Zella]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

One could argue Jill is braver than Jinger, or maybe more naïve. But I guess that all depends on what Jill actually said to the cameras.

I think it's also a matter of Jinger seems to still have slightly more to do with her family than Jill (or did), so she has more to lose. Jinger wrote the book but was very careful to frame a lot of the discussion away from her parents. Jill, as I said earlier, has been quite neutral in her public comments, but Derick has been way more aggressively critical of the Duggar parents than Jinger or Jeremy ever has been. So, I imagine that bridge is already burnt in a way that isn't quite true for Jinger yet. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Zella

[absnow54]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think Jinger has better 'supports' than Jill meaning, there is no way, no how I think Jinger would ever participate in a docuseries. To me doing the documentary is way different than telling your own story in a book, and likely comes with more repercussions. One could argue Jill is braver than Jinger, or maybe more naïve. But I guess that all depends on what Jill actually said to the cameras.

I think Jinger released a book rather than participate in a documentary, because her family is very brand dependent. She controls the narrative of her book, and is less likely to ruffle feathers with her family and her current church community. She presents herself as being freed, but her and Jeremy's livelihood is completely dependent on how they present themselves on social media. Jill's "brand" is actually more dependent on making "controversial" mainstream choices.

Plus, it probably comes down to money. Even if they weren't paid for this, the docuseries doesn't look like it has any sort of potential for a spinoff (a la Counting On starting as a documentary that transitioned back into the original show) so there was zero incentive for the Vuolos to sign up.

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

the docuseries doesn't look like it has any sort of potential for a spinoff (a la Counting On starting as a documentary that transitioned back into the original show) so there was zero incentive for the Vuolos to sign up.

Don't forget--they were the self-proclaimed breakout stars of Counting On! 😂

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, merylinkid said:

We already know Bobbye Holt has had some growth.   She actually went and got a protective order against her husband.   Which is really not the whole worship the headship thing.   It is in fact, the exact opposite.   She is saying loud and clear what he did is NOT OKAY.

I just know that by the time a protective order is filed, the victim has been terrorized for far too long. 
 

Of course I’ll check out the documentary but I would be shocked if us Duggar followers learned anything terribly shocking or new. I do wonder if this documentary will put stop gap on the social media shilling of the adult children? Is anyone actually making a living at that besides maybe Jinger?

[Lisa418722]

I'm definitely going to watch the documentary, but I think Jill is going to be more like Jinger. She won't really call her parents out on anything specifically; she will call Gothard out on his control and abuse.   They will talk a little bit about Josh, but none of the abuse details (which are none of our business).  Amy and Derick are the two that will be the wild cards, I think.  

[Absolom]

25 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I just know that by the time a protective order is filed, the victim has been terrorized for far too long. 

Indeed. It usually takes many, many episodes.  In Bobbye's case she seems to have waited until Jim beat up her son and probably turned on her if she tried to intervene.  

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Indeed. It usually takes many, many episodes.  In Bobbye's case she seems to have waited until Jim beat up her son and probably turned on her if she tried to intervene.  

Which is why I will watch them closely. At the time they filmed, this was all just a dirty family secret. Will Bobye play the loving wife? 

[AstridM]

3 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

This show makes it all the more interesting that Jinger went her own way and elected not to participate, given that she seemed to be basically spouting similar things except that she just did it first. Then again, Jinger may not be participating because she was motivated by her new cult to speak out. It could also be about the money as I suspect that neither Jill nor Amy would get paid to the same degree if at all for appearing on the documentary. 

Jinger only spoke out because she wanted to sell more copies of her book, imo. It was all about greed.

[Zella]

I think another factor with Jinger is her "book" seems to have been highly managed by the powers that be at John MacArthur's Church of the Hateful Old Fucks. I doubt they're very interested in having her participate in a documentary outside the purview of their control. 

[oliviabenson]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Don't forget--they were the self-proclaimed breakout stars of Counting On! 😂

BELOVED breakout stars 

[quarks]

Jeremy and Jinger aren't featured in the trailer, true, but they could still make an appearance - the trailer does have a shot of Jinger, from archival TLC footage. 

If they aren't in it, well, this could be because Jeremy and Jinger didn't want to be interviewed/filmed, or demanded money for this, but I find that unlikely - the two of them have made a huge, huge point of trying to remain F list celebrities, and Jinger gave a number of unpaid interviews this year. I think it's more likely that the directors/producers looked at the footage of Jeremy and Jinger and decided it just wasn't entertaining enough to include.  

There's also the related issue that Jeremy tends to come off as very condescending/arrogant on camera, which would work well if this was an anti-MacArthur documentary, but since this documentary apparently plans to present Gothard and Jim Bob Duggar as the villains, it might be a bit distracting.

Regardless, these two are the only family members guaranteed to receive some sort of financial benefit from this, in the form of automated "recommendations" for their books from the Amazon algorithm - advertising that they don't have to pay for. 

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, BetyBee said:

You were ahead of the game, @SunnyBeBe! WTG!

I grew up Fundie, so I am very familiar with how that type of thing operates.  Most of the kids I knew were not on board with their Fundie parents’ beliefs, but secretly defiant.  All the stuff of how great it’s was fake.  It was difficult for me to believe the Duggar kids were so happy. I suppose some of them were suffering in one or more ways.  

[BetyBee]

2 hours ago, realityfan26 said:

I also felt like I didn't remember this as I couldn't figure out how I could forget Jim beating Bobye. It was Jim Holt doing the beating, not Jim Bob!

I think Gothard was very specific that headships only beat their own wives. (I kid!)