Shiny Happy People: Duggar Family Secrets - General Discussion

[merylinkid]

I believe totally that JB would do something like this.

Also didn't they go to El Salvador to be missionaries and they claimed they returned because Jill couldn't cut it?    If I am remembering correctly way to throw your kid under the bus just to make sure you keep the TLC gravy train rolling.   Could also explain the "Jill's marriage is in trouble" storyline.   It wasn't, they were united against JB, who wanted Derrick GONE because he was fighting back.  Again way to treat your own kid JB.

I really hope Jill is still going to therapy and is getting all the support she needs to come to grips with how her parents treated her.

[sagittarius sue]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

It's paywall blocked. 

I made it a gift article so hopefully this will work.   https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/opinion/duggar-shiny-happy.html?unlocked_article_code=Dbyloc9GklzLmLPiaxz1rQKP_s9WHfYbLBBODOcbcJIngU-b_3ZfIGFAJo_h6fLOx-GqpvTJTWsa-mpfQaIjKC3_XrJoCL9TPlSeWwl9NhbBg5E1-SYOphqLuOuMApehXIn8cjbaGHVK0c_2tbnfTF_GK89-U8BB848gbJeWMDPmTzv4_bF-EalfADPZFX_GfbKPjQm_a7UbMum4Sh7Mn0g6wegEFJ0XzsprDenAbH227XqrjBxyJqRjSCUyjNx7e1vvh-rEc-fNy9hPh_O8ELDbtebWd6zgTIKS9XrcmRsP0QsQTyLiNo-YPBD6q7_9I1yBDfdxDiE8CLMf0A&smid=url-share

[CalicoKitty]

12 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

I made it a gift article so hopefully this will work.   https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/opinion/duggar-shiny-happy.html?unlocked_article_code=Dbyloc9GklzLmLPiaxz1rQKP_s9WHfYbLBBODOcbcJIngU-b_3ZfIGFAJo_h6fLOx-GqpvTJTWsa-mpfQaIjKC3_XrJoCL9TPlSeWwl9NhbBg5E1-SYOphqLuOuMApehXIn8cjbaGHVK0c_2tbnfTF_GK89-U8BB848gbJeWMDPmTzv4_bF-EalfADPZFX_GfbKPjQm_a7UbMum4Sh7Mn0g6wegEFJ0XzsprDenAbH227XqrjBxyJqRjSCUyjNx7e1vvh-rEc-fNy9hPh_O8ELDbtebWd6zgTIKS9XrcmRsP0QsQTyLiNo-YPBD6q7_9I1yBDfdxDiE8CLMf0A&smid=url-share

Thank you.  This was interesting.

[Meow Mix]

I'm not sure what I believe on this.  I absolutely believe that Jill would sign any piece of paper JB put in front of her.  If this did happen the day before the wedding, I could see Derick being rushed into it and going along not realizing that JB would screw him so thoroughly.  His mother was battling cancer at the time and her survival was very much in question.  He had already lost his dad, so I could see him being emotionally fragile and just not thinking clearly.

Going back to the trailer, I'm glad someone dug up that creepy picture of Gothard surrounded by underaged girls with a gross leer on his face.  

[Notabug]

35 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

I believe totally that JB would do something like this.

Also didn't they go to El Salvador to be missionaries and they claimed they returned because Jill couldn't cut it?   he support she needs to come to grips with how her parents treated her.

That was our speculation based on how Jill seemed to be so afraid all the time and didn't seem to venture outside of the compound where they were staying without Derrick.  We also thought that was the reason they kept flying back to Arkansas all the time.  Now, it seems they had to go back to Arkansas frequently because the TLC contract required them to be available for filming.

They supposedly returned to Arkansas for Sam's birth and it was around that time that the fit hit the shan and the footage from his delivery never made it onto the show.  Shortly thereafter, Derrick did a one year ministry thing with a church.  They also bought their first house.  It seems that this all happened due to the money they got out of JB as compensation for Jill's years of on-screen servitude.

[GeeGolly]

If I'm remembering correctly there were a lot of episodes filmed in El Salvador. How many episodes per season did they film? Were Jill and Derick in every episode?

[babyhouseman]

44 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Thank you.  This was interesting.

 "Duggar family “didn’t consider the filming to be work,” 

 If it wasn't work, why get paid? Volunteer for free to show people your happy family. 

Edited June 1, 2023 by babyhouseman

[Salacious Kitty]

8 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

 "Duggar family “didn’t consider the filming to be work,” 

 If it wasn't work, why get paid? Volunteer for free to show people your happy family. 

I believe the kids were told it was the family ministry. 🙄

[FizzyPuff]

17 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

It's paywall blocked. 

Archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20230531130032/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/opinion/duggar-shiny-happy.html/

1 minute ago, FizzyPuff said:

Archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20230531130032/https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/opinion/duggar-shiny-happy.html/

Whoops I posted this before I saw @sagittarius sue post.

[SunnyBeBe]

Does anyone know the last date Jill appears in a photograph with her mother?  Or father?  

[lascuba]

18 hours ago, Notabug said:

So, when she married Derrick, Jim Bob had them both sign just the signature page of a contract without giving them the rest.  Being the obedient daughter, Jill did as did Derrick.  Turns out it was a 5 year commitment to film the show including the births of her kids.  It was only when she was pregnant with Israel and didn't want the birth filmed, that she found out her name was on a contract allowing it.

When she was a few weeks from delivery with Israel, one of the producers approached her about plans for filming the labor and birth.  She explained that she wasn't going to allow that and was surprised to hear she didn't have a choice.  Production supplied them with cameras to film the birth themselves, but they were under contract and had to do it.

 

Everything else aside, I'm amazed that this kind of contract hasn't been challenged in court, considering how many births have been filmed for reality tv. IANAL, but I can't imagine that a lawyer couldn't successfully argue that a contract requiring someone to be filmed partially nude during a medical procedure should be invalid.

16 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

What receipts? Contracts that they signed? That was part of one of Derick's previous stories. Of course not the one when he said he couldn't be fired because he didn't have a contract, lol. They don't have proof they didn't read what they signed. They don't have proof they didn't want the birth filmed. IMO, Derick is once again revising history to fit the narrative he wants.

Jill signing a contract without reading it makes 100% sense. Not so much Derick. And I'm sure they both knew it had something to do with the show. If Jill wrote the book without Derick I would give every word way more weight. But Derick - nope. Derick is a liar who lies.

All that to say, I still believe JB is an asshole who definitely took advantage of his kids in regard to filming.

The hit his pride took when he found out he was fired  after TLC posted in on social media would explain that lie. Anything to save face. Though he was ranting an raving about Jazz long before he was fired, so I don't know what he expected from TLC after doing that when there were already arguments over filming the births and money.

14 hours ago, merylinkid said:

I believe totally that JB would do something like this.

Also didn't they go to El Salvador to be missionaries and they claimed they returned because Jill couldn't cut it?    If I am remembering correctly way to throw your kid under the bus just to make sure you keep the TLC gravy train rolling.   Could also explain the "Jill's marriage is in trouble" storyline.   It wasn't, they were united against JB, who wanted Derrick GONE because he was fighting back.  Again way to treat your own kid JB.

I really hope Jill is still going to therapy and is getting all the support she needs to come to grips with how her parents treated her.

Whatever was going on with TLC, Jill absolutely couldn't cut it in DA. She was a hot mess during that time and she was visibly relieved when Michelle and JB went down to visit. She clung to her mother for a long while, which was pretty remarkable considering how little affection Michelle shows her kids.

[Heathen]

On 5/25/2023 at 11:38 AM, Stevie Nicks said:

With regard to them finding legitimate paid employment, what kind of jobs could the kids and spouses really get? They're uneducated barely literate people. They'd probably wind up on the public dole. 

But I agree with everything you said. 

There are plenty of uneducated, barely literate people who manage to hold down jobs. The Duggars, in this alternate universe where Jim Bob and Michelle finally get what they deserve, wouldn't get a bottomless social safety net just because their parents suck. 

Not wanting to work is an entirely different story. 

[Notabug]

16 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If I'm remembering correctly there were a lot of episodes filmed in El Salvador. How many episodes per season did they film? Were Jill and Derick in every episode?

There are a total of 227 regular episodes of 19 kids and counting.  However, Jill got married in the next to last season and Israel's birth was in the 18th episode of the last season; so Jill and Derrick didn't go to El Salvador until Counting On.

There are 97 Counting on episodes.  Jill and Derrick leave for El Salvador early on and there are several episodes where they have a storyline there.  By the 20th episode of the series, they are back in the US and do not return to El Salvador until episode 40.  However, it doesn't look like there were any episodes filmed there and they are back in Arkansas well before Joy's wedding which is episode 45.

Looks like there are no more than maybe 10 episodes in El Salvador and most are one of several plots in the episode.  I expect the film crew could've gone down there for a week or less and filmed all of it at once.  They messed with timelines on the show all the time.  I think they went down there with plans for a bunch of storylines and filmed it all pretty quickly all at once.

I do agree with everyone here, however, even without the TLC contract, Jill was not cut out for the mission life and she and Derrick would've had to come home sooner rather than later.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Notabug

[Zella]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

Though he was ranting an raving about Jazz long before he was fired, so I don't know what he expected from TLC after doing that when there were already arguments over filming the births and money.

I find it psychologically fascinating that after all that Derick has also said he wouldn't mind being on TV again. That tells me he doesn't have a problem with exploiting his family for money and has no real philosophical issue with what JB and Michelle did to their kids. He just wants to be the JB who's getting the money as he broadcasts their lives to the world. 

It also tells me he's not very smart if he thinks any channel is going to be interested in signing him up after the meltdowns he's had on social media. 

I don't doubt JB is a shady asshole, but Derick always wants to act like he was an innocent bystander victim, and he absolutely is not. 

[CountryGirl]

22 hours ago, BetyBee said:

Wow! JB is truly a garbage person! Screwing over his own kids for money. What a great Christian!

I think he would sell his kids and grandkids to Satan for the right price. 

[floridamom]

Derick's boss, THE State Attorney would have something to say about him appearing in a TV  "realty" show while in his employ. I think he would have to resign first.

[SMama]

9 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Derick's boss, THE State Attorney would have something to say about him appearing in a TV  "realty" show while in his employ. I think he would have to resign first.

I don’t think that’s what they are looking for with the docuseries and book. Derick would have to be very stupid to go that route, and while no genius, he seems to be intelligent enough to get two degrees and pass the bar. 

[GeeGolly]

I don't think TLC filmed in El Salvador all at once because Izzy was an infant when they went there and he wasn't an infant in all the episodes.

I'll be curious to see Derick's timeline. Here they all are as a loving family prior to leaving for El Salvador, in 2015. Below that is a few months after Sam was born in 2017.

 

It seems to me the shit didn't hit the fan until after Sam was born. That's also when Derick started losing it on SM.

[Notabug]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't think TLC filmed in El Salvador all at once because Izzy was an infant when they went there and he wasn't an infant in all the episodes.

I'll be curious to see Derick's timeline. Here they all are as a loving family prior to leaving for El Salvador, in 2015. Below that is a few months after Sam was born in 2017.

 

It seems to me the shit didn't hit the fan until after Sam was born. That's also when Derick started losing it on SM.

Derrick and Jill returned from El Salvador for the last time a few months before Sam was born, so the timeline fits.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Notabug said:

Derrick and Jill returned from El Salvador for the last time a few months before Sam was born, so the timeline fits.

Oh, I thought he said the feud started before going to El Salvador and during their time there. From these pictures everything looks hunky-dory. 

[Notabug]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh, I thought he said the feud started before going to El Salvador and during their time there. From these pictures everything looks hunky-dory. 

The article was not clear on exactly when it was that TLC told them to return from El Salvador to film in Arkansas.  Only that, when they objected, JB sent them a copy of the contract that at least Jill had signed and they realized that they had no choice but to come back.

It was, of course, sometime after they filmed Israel's birth that they found out TLC was paying JB for their work on the series.

As for everything looking hunky-dory in the pictures, isn't that what this whole cult is all about?  Shiny, happy people on the outside.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Notabug

[Salacious Kitty]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Oh, I thought he said the feud started before going to El Salvador and during their time there. From these pictures everything looks hunky-dory. 

No. JB/Meech visited them in El Salvador, so the feud wasn't happening yet. Sounds like everything blew up around the time Sam was born.

[Notabug]

7 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

No. JB/Meech visited them in El Salvador, so the feud wasn't happening yet. Sounds like everything blew up around the time Sam was born.

Even if the feud was happening, don't you think JB and Meech would've hauled a** on down there anyway if TLC wanted it?  And Derrick and Jill would've been told to suck it up and smile for the cameras/

[SMama]

11 minutes ago, Notabug said:

 

As for everything looking hunky-dory in the pictures, isn't that what this whole cult is all about?  Shiny, happy people on the outside.

THIS. The same way the Rollofs, Jon and Kate, The Willis Clan, and Sister Wives all looked hunky dory before things unraveled. It’s what people do. Happy, shiny people indeed. 

[GeeGolly]

19 minutes ago, Notabug said:

The article was not clear on exactly when it was that TLC told them to return from El Salvador to film in Arkansas.  Only that, when they objected, JB sent them a copy of the contract that at least Jill had signed and they realized that they had no choice but to come back.

It was, of course, sometime after they filmed Israel's birth that they found out TLC was paying JB for their work on the series.

As for everything looking hunky-dory in the pictures, isn't that what this whole cult is all about?  Shiny, happy people on the outside.

Sure, shiny and happy for the cameras, but why would Derick show up for a non-TV event like in the second pic?

 

18 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

No. JB/Meech visited them in El Salvador, so the feud wasn't happening yet. Sounds like everything blew up around the time Sam was born.

Yes, that's the way I remember it playing out too. That's why I'm curious about how they'll talk about it in the book. Derick seems to frequently forget the internet is forever.

[lascuba]

I don't think the JB/Derick feud truly started until after lawyers got involved and JB forked over the lump sum. Before that, they were likely upset but still keeping it sweet for the sake of family harmony. There was probably a fair amount of compartmentalizing as well...the TLC money stuff was business and they tried to keep it separate from family time, all the while resentment was building below the surface. I wonder if the donations they were soliciting at the time delayed Derick from going after JB, and when that dried up, the feud got its legs. 

 

[babyhouseman]

The documentary has a content advisory of Violence, foul language, sexual content. Ironic for the Duggars

[SMama]

2 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

The documentary has a content advisory of Violence, foul language, sexual content. Ironic for the Duggars

Perhaps from the other no longer IBLP interviews. 

[GeeGolly]

35 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

The documentary has a content advisory of Violence, foul language, sexual content. Ironic for the Duggars

Maybe Nike will do a commercial. 

[Tuxcat]

6 hours ago, lascuba said:

The hit his pride took when he found out he was fired  after TLC posted in on social media would explain that lie. Anything to save face. Though he was ranting an raving about Jazz long before he was fired, so I don't know what he expected from TLC after doing that when there were already arguments over filming the births and money

Derick's versions

I will be interested to see which version of events is told in the documentary and the book. If Derick's issues with JB began with Israel's birth, they broke open with Sam's birth - completely understandable. I read somewhere that Jill and Derick were on food stamps and could not pay their medical bills. And JB withheld money via trickery and thievery. 

But I also question Derick's responsibility in this? Was it not his choice to leave his job and choose to live as begging missionaries? He chose to have children knowing the state of their income and their full dependence on Daddy Duggar. Not just one child, but two. I lose track of their timeline so please correct me if I am wrong regarding his employment and their finances.

I also suspect we won't hear about any of Derick's tweet tirades or issues with TLC when he was attacking Nate's family and Jazz. I know he maintains that this had nothing to do with his exit from TLC. 

------------------

Also Amy and Deanna?

They say the left the series when they found out about Josh.

But here they are speaking out about the horrors of the IBLP (which I agree with). Did they not know about IBLP - while on the show for years and years?

 

[GeeGolly]

16 minutes ago, Tuxcat said:

Derick's versions

I will be interested to see which version of events is told in the documentary and the book. If Derick's issues with JB began with Israel's birth, they broke open with Sam's birth - completely understandable. I read somewhere that Jill and Derick were on food stamps and could not pay their medical bills. And JB withheld money via trickery and thievery. 

But I also question Derick's responsibility in this? Was it not his choice to leave his job and choose to live as begging missionaries? He chose to have children knowing the state of their income and their full dependence on Daddy Duggar. Not just one child, but two. I lose track of their timeline so please correct me if I am wrong regarding his employment and their finances.

I also suspect we won't hear about any of Derick's tweet tirades or issues with TLC when he was attacking Nate's family and Jazz. I know he maintains that this had nothing to do with his exit from TLC. 

------------------

Also Amy and Deanna?

They say the left the series when they found out about Josh.

But here they are speaking out about the horrors of the IBLP (which I agree with). Did they not know about IBLP - while on the show for years and years?

 

Scandals 1 & 2 were in 2015. Scandal 3 cancelled Counting On.

Deanna lies.

Amy lies too.

[crazy8s]

It has dropped on Prime - I am watching episode 1 now

[CalicoKitty]

11 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

It has dropped on Prime - I am watching episode 1 now

Thanks.  I'm watching now, too.

 

[SMama]

East or West coast?

[CalicoKitty]

Just now, SMama said:

East or West coast?

West

[ginger90]

12 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

It has dropped on Prime - I am watching episode 1 now

I’m looking forward to your take on it.

[Salacious Kitty]

Rats! I have basketball then Top Chef tonight. Will have to watch when I get home tomorrow. 

[SMama]

8 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

West

I’m in CA and it’s not there. 🧐

[Salacious Kitty]

1 minute ago, SMama said:

I’m in CA and it’s not there. 🧐

I checked, and I see it. 

[SMama]

9 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I checked, and I see it. 

Found it! Smart to open with Jill. 

[Tuxcat]

Watching - already way too much Famy lol. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Boob launches a grenade.

[crazycatlady58]

2 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Boob launches a grenade.

What did he say?

[CalicoKitty]

34 minutes ago, SMama said:

I’m in CA and it’s not there. 🧐

I'm in Nevada and I'm watching on Amazon Prime.

 

I'm guessing there was a lot more to the sister molestations that was ever made public.  Derick and Amy's husband are there for support.  Very few comments from Derick so far.  The Holts are sure not fans of JB's.  I think it is well done so far.  Episode 2 is next.  Other IBLP kids are giving their histories.

 

[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, crazycatlady58 said:

What did he say?

He predictably denounces the docuseries and cries about being in the public eye. Says they love every member of their family (sure Jan) and handle disagreements in private. 

Whatever. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Salacious Kitty

[CalicoKitty]

@SMama, go to the search icon on Amazon Prime and type in the title.  I couldn't see it on the ads on Prime, but it is there when you search.

[Absolom]

Be sure and put it in your watch list and it will come up on your "home" page.

[MaryAnneSpier]

I just finished episode 1, and am so far underwhelmed.

I would really like this documentary to really shine a light on Gothard for pop culture as a whole so he can finally be brought to justice. I know there was an unsuccessful lawsuit against him several years ago, but fingers crossed that this will put pressure on law enforcement to get him for something.

I do hope in another year to 18 months we have a follow-up that shows what happens with the leadership of the group, and maybe an interview with Bobbye Holt. It's odd watching Jim and Bobbye together now with the recent events in their relationship. 

[GeeGolly]

Just finished the first episode. It has loosely described Gothard and IBLP. A little too much Duggar peppered throughout for my taste.

Poor Jill, once again put on the spot about the molestations. 

[BetyBee]

I just finished episode 1. I'm going to dwell on that for now and probably watch the 2nd episode tomorrow. I find it well done. I have a soft spot for Jill and it's painful to see her suffering. So far Derick has only spoken when Jill couldn't. She is still saying it should never have been made public. That's her truth. I'm sorry that it hurts her so, but if Boob hadn't put them on TV, she would never have been in the public eye. I'm glad Josh is incarcerated. The Holts put it out there that Josh was molesting from the age of 12. That is sickening and the documentary is going to explore that and IBLP in depth in subsequent episodes. It's kind of creepy to see the Holts presenting a united front, what with the recent news about the restraining order on Jim Holt.

Gothard is so creepy and fake. He got rich creating monsters like himself (side note: I recently learned that he went to my high school, many years earlier than me!). I feel so bad for every woman and child who has been victimized by Gothard's cult. I bet I'll feel even more strongly about that after the next episode! 

Amy's in it a lot. She's more serious than she ever was on the show. I don't really buy what she's selling, but I'm glad she and Deanna are there for Jill. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by BetyBee