S04.E06: Living+

[Zaffy]

I am not sure I understood most of what happened in this episode concerning business and I am certainly not sure WTH "Living+" is.
But for me it was brutal watching the 3 siblings trying to cope with grief.
I am afraid the best case scenario would be them ending in a "house for loonies".. Roman is half way there..

[TexasGal]

I didn’t understand why Mattson was so fixated on not wanting real estate.  Buying property and building whatever the “land cruises” are supposed to be will take a while. 

[Paws]

Quote

If Greg ends up winning it all, it will seem to me like a total rip off of the the entire series, unless they can show something spectacular that we have not seen out of Greg, and at this late date I can't see that happening. It wouldn't be in character. I can't see them Game of Thronesing this thing on the way out. Not this show.

They have totally shown why Greg would come out on Top. Logan was such an egomaniac it appears he never properly  planned for his death, that’s why nobody knows who really should be in charge. He and his brother Ewan were the majority stockholders. With Logan’s death, his stock goes to his descendants…so it’s split into 4, or even 5 if you count Marsha.  Ewans stock goes to his daughter and Greg. So Greg and his mom are the majority stockholders, esp since they will act together.

 

edited to add: this assumes Ewan passes his stock down and didn’t send it all to Greenpeace, and that mattson hasn’t bought all the stock.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Paws

[BlackberryJam]

7 minutes ago, Paws said:

They have totally shown why Greg would come out on Top. Logan was such an egomaniac it appears he never properly  planned for his death, that’s why nobody knows who really should be in charge. He and his brother Ewan were the majority stockholders. With Logan’s death, his stock goes to his descendants…so it’s split into 4, or even 5 if you count Marsha.  Ewans stock goes to his daughter and Greg. So Greg and his mom are the majority stockholders, esp since they will act together.

 

edited to add: this assumes Ewan passes his stock down and didn’t send it all to Greenpeace, and that mattson hasn’t bought all the stock.

I never got the impression that Ewan owned a share larger than any of the children individually. I assumed Ewan was at say, 10-15% which gives him a larger share than the Retired Janitors of Idaho, but not so much he could take over the company. I thought it was Logan at 40% or so, so that it would require everyone else to go against him in a united front for him to lose.

[Enigma X]

53 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I would love to see the actual scripts for his show.  Do writers actually write out all that word salad that Roman and Kendall keep spewing at each other, or is there just a vague direction to ad lib this type of stuff using as many BS business catch phrases as possible?  

I have been thinking about this for a while. I like the show but hate the way Kendall, Roman, and Shiv (more so Roman) talk. That gibberish of  "yeah, whatever," "blah blah blah," or "the thingy," and stuff like that.  They do this a lot, and it is annoying and come off as if they were told to ad-lib.

[Paws]

Just now, BlackberryJam said:

I never got the impression that Ewan owned a share larger than any of the children individually. I assumed Ewan was at say, 10-15% which gives him a larger share than the Retired Janitors of Idaho, but not so much he could take over the company. I thought it was Logan at 40% or so, so that it would require everyone else to go against him in a united front for him to lose.

  I thought Ewan and Logan started together and then Ewan left, so that they had equal shares, but maybe I’m wrong. Guess we’re just going to have to rewatch the whole series now to figure it out 😁.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

I completely get Shiv's motivation.  She has -0- power at ATN, and knows it will stay that way and the "CE-Bros" (love that term!  Thank you @Chicago Redshirt)

I sadly can't take credit for that...that came from the show itself. 

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, Lassus said:

I think it's just a pretty logical - if hyperbolic and fantastical for the purpose of fiction - pitch.  "You love Waystar for a bunch of other shit, now we will open up our own living spaces."  The reference to The Villages above is apt IMO.

Honestly, it sounded pretty realistic.  HOW MANY motels and condos does Disney run down there?

I don't understand how it's different from every other older living space or what he means by living forever.  Or better. Or longer.  

I don't understand the product basically. And I'm not sure if that's purposeful on their part or a bad pitch by kendall or its just a bad idea overall.  

[BlackberryJam]

1 minute ago, Paws said:

  I thought Ewan and Logan started together and then Ewan left, so that they had equal shares, but maybe I’m wrong. Guess we’re just going to have to rewatch the whole series now to figure it out 😁.

If I remember right, in S1, the kids needed to get Ewan's vote, along with Sandy, Stewy, etc, to out vote Logan. Stewy ended up throwing Kendall under the bus and siding with Logan, so no matter what Ewan did, Logan was still coming out on top.

The retired employees own a percentage, Caroline (KSR's mother) owns a percentage, Sandy, Stewy, Logan, and then there is the publicly traded shares. So anyone with a giant pile of money, like Mattson, could just buy all of the public stock and take over. That's a "hostile" takeover. However, it's hard to do because once someone starts buying the stock, the price rises and it becomes more expensive than it's worth. 

If I had to guess, I'd say Logan owned about 30% of the company, with another 3-5% with Caroline, 10% to Ewan, making it a razor thin margin for Logan to have defeated the No Confidence vote. 

[kittykat]

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Also, as self-involved as Roman might be, he has to realize firing two high-level female executives within hours of each other looks and is terrible, right?

Logan was ready to do the same with Gerri and Cyd in episode 3 before kicking the bucket but yeah it looks pretty bad.  Damn females and their correct judgement. I'm guessing Annabeth Gish isn't a one and done so we haven't seen the last of her.

I am finding it hard to believe that this is the same week as the death, has anyone slept?

[iMonrey]

Oh for the love of Criminy. This show simply cannot get enough of Brian Cox being an asshole and telling everyone to fuck off. Even now that he's dead they've got to find some way to get that asshole fuckoffery into the episode because, by golly, that is just HIGH-larious, right? They really want to have their cake and eat it too. Three whole seasons of asshole Logan saying fuck off, the show too enamored of that to kill him off and move the story forward, then when they finally do, they still gotta get that bastard in there somehow because hey, that's why people watch the show, right? To see Brian Cox say fuck off to everyone? Yeah? Well, not me.

Also, they really have to go out of their way to make his sons look like complete idiots just to keep propping Logan. I'd like to think Shiv is the puppetmaster that winds up on top but I have no confidence that will happen, since the show seems determined to prove all of Logan's children are complete and utter screw-ups that can never live up to his magnificence.

Quote

I hate to say it, but I'm really getting bored by the Shiv/Tom scenes.
It's so repetitive. They flirt, they talk about sex with other people, they hurt each other, and flirt some more. This bizarre dance is getting pretty old for me.

Agreed with this too. Thank God the show is finally ending, I had a hard time hanging on this far.

[dmc]

Living Plus is giving major Theranos vibes.  This won’t end well. 
 

I am over Shiv and Tom.  Their relationship is terrible.  I fully support them ending things. Shiv has never been into Tom and watching her pretend to be is brutal. They don’t have any chemistry.  It’s like a sick sort of game with no winners.

Roman and Kendall never learn. 

 

 

[AuntieDiane6]

2 hours ago, Jordan Baker said:

Maybe it's because I live in FL, but the whole Living+ thing reminded me of The Villages, where Tom would have lots of fellow ATN citizens.

YES!  That was my first thought.  I figured  they would  just add a  building  to Living+ for cyrogenics/research (or whatever it's called).

[nb360]

8 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

YES!  That was my first thought.  I figured  they would  just add a  building  to Living+ for cyrogenics/research (or whatever it's called).

That's interesting -- cryogenics is one of Conner's interest, at least in the first season.

Living+ sounds like an upscale assisted living facility or a continuing care community (CCC). At a certain age and if you don't have any children, it's comforting to know that certain things will be taken care of, as you get older.

[pasdetrois]

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

That gibberish of  "yeah, whatever," "blah blah blah," or "the thingy," and stuff like that.  They do this a lot, and it is annoying and come off as if they were told to ad-lib.

I know there are people who talk this way in a kind of code that a small group understands. One sees it in fashion media. It's annoying as all get out to hear and watch.

Meanwhile, Kendall's crowd speech was pure boosterism, the kind of stuff one hears at political rallies, shareholder meetings, high school election speeches. It dresses up whatever appeals to a particular audience and spoon feeds it to them. In this case it's how to lessen the real fears of getting old and dying, which are inevitable and unavoidable (excepting early death). I'm sensitive to it because I deal with critical care and assisted living for several family members - the marketing can be bizarre and, at least due to COVID, full of false promises.

Edited May 1, 2023 by pasdetrois

[Lassus]

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

I don't understand how it's different from every other older living space

It's run by Waystar

1 hour ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

or what he means by living forever.

New, better exclusive tech and medicine for rich people.  Which is WHAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING in the actual world.  (How many norms died of AIDS while Magic Johnson sailed onward?  $$$$$$$$$)

The product is simply what we have now, but just - slightly - more outlandish and fantastical.  For the moment.

EDIT:  I'm not saying that it's the same as our world, MAN DON'T YOU SEEEEE?, but for THIS universe, it seems to play just fine IMO.  Masses like to be led, and this is where the ATN masses possibly want to be led to.  Of course it could crash and burn.  But in theory, as a concept?  Doesn't seem that wacky or crazy to me.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Lassus

[absnow54]

2 minutes ago, Lassus said:

It's run by Waystar

This episode felt very much like Waystar = Disney (I know, overall it's Roys=Murdochs, but for this specific product...) in which case, I 100% believe retirees would funnel all of their remaining savings into the brand.

[DrSpaceman73]

12 minutes ago, Lassus said:

It's run by Waystar

New, better exclusive tech and medicine for rich people.  Which is WHAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING in the actual world.  (How many norms died of AIDS while Magic Johnson sailed onward?  $$$$$$$$$)

The product is simply what we have now, but just - slightly - more outlandish and fantastical.  For the moment.

EDIT:  I'm not saying that it's the same as our world, MAN DON'T YOU SEEEEE?, but for THIS universe, it seems to play just fine IMO.  Masses like to be led, and this is where the ATN masses possibly want to be led to.  Of course it could crash and burn.  But in theory, as a concept?  Doesn't seem that wacky or crazy to me.

Lots of ordinary people have been living with hiv a long time, decades. It's a chronic controllable illness now.  Not separated by being rich. 

[Lassus]

14 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

This episode felt very much like Waystar = Disney (I know, overall it's Roys=Murdochs

I kind of like the fact that it's not as specifically RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES, although I do like the idea of the Murdochs randomly running cruises and theme parks.

6 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Lots of ordinary people have been living with hiv a long time, decades. It's a chronic controllable illness now.  Not separated by being rich.

I am aware.  It was the first example that popped into my head.  And that was the 90s.  The point was, the rich always have access to better and more advanced health care.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Lassus

[Blakeston]

The appeal of Living+ is:

- You supposedly get to live in a crime-free community with a bunch of people who are just like you. That's the highly romanticized view of 1950's suburban life that appeals to so many of the people who love ATN.

- There will be a ton of entertainment options.

- You get access to the best medical technologies. A lot of people already believe that the Bill Gateses and Jeff Bezoses of the world have ways to prolong their lives that the rest of us don't know about. And some people think that it won't be too long before we can map a person's brain so well that it will be possible to upload their personality, memories, etc, and then recreate their brain.

There's no way that Waystar can actually deliver on this stuff, but lots of people would be signing up for it.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Blakeston

[Francie]

I have a new wishlist item: Greg goes down for ordering the sound person to alter Logan's words. Like goes to white collar country club prison for a couple months going down. Because altering Logan's pitch from whatever percent it was to double seems hella illegal to me. Like fraud in the inducement of the existing and potential investors and perhaps a whole host of other federal trade regulations and laws. Sure, Greg was following orders, but that does not get him off the hook (and, nope, not going to make a comparison of that with Matsson's tweet). 

Interesting to me is that, had Roman not delivered his father's message to ax Gerri, she'd likely be supporting him and guiding him right now. Indeed, we started the show with two women scorned: Gerri, because of Roman, and Shiv, because of Tom. I though Shiv vocalizing Tom's betrayal to him was actually a healthy step. While, in my head, I know they are a toxic pair, in my heart I can't help but root for those two crazy kids to work it out ... and go live on a beach or in a home with a yard so that Mondale can be let out of his crate! 

This episode lacked all the great bits of dialogue I've come to expect. Way to set a high bar and not live up to your own impossibly high standards, show!  I blame the lack of Marcia, Lady Caroline, Connor, and I especially blame the fact the Greek chorus -- Karl, Frank, and Gerri -- were not together much. They even teased us with the three of them sitting in a balcony. In a balcony, people!! I was ready for them to go all Waldorf and Statler, at least with each other, and deliver some devastating killer insults, but then Kendall had to go and actually make a good presentation. Dammit, Kendall, ruining my fun!!

[TaraS1]

Did I miss who sent Roman the video of Logan?  I don't know why I thought Shiv - I guess because we saw her watching him look all sad when he left the room.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, aghst said:

Does Roman play it because he misses his dad

I interpreted it as wanting to hear his dad's voice, even if it wasn't really him.  I think like many things on the show, it's left open to interpretation.

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, TaraS1 said:

Did I miss who sent Roman the video of Logan?

It was Kendall. 

11 minutes ago, Francie said:

I have a new wishlist item: Greg goes down for ordering the sound person to alter Logan's words. Like goes to white collar country club prison for a couple months going down. Because altering Logan's pitch from whatever percent it was to double seems hella illegal to me. Like fraud in the inducement of the existing and potential investors and perhaps a whole host of other federal trade regulations and laws. Sure, Greg was following orders, but that does not get him off the hook (and, nope, not going to make a comparison of that with Matsson's tweet).

I feel like in this instance, Logan or his estate are the only ones who could sue over it. Kendall had the finance guy running the numbers, and he said they could make an argument for the claim. 

[aghst]

1 hour ago, nb360 said:

That's interesting -- cryogenics is one of Conner's interest, at least in the first season.

Living+ sounds like an upscale assisted living facility or a continuing care community (CCC). At a certain age and if you don't have any children, it's comforting to know that certain things will be taken care of, as you get older.

The point is, like everything else the Roy kids do, they don't have a vision, they don't have a fleshed-out product or strategy.

Kendall is winging it, making it up as he goes along.

It's vaporware.

Other part is, Waystar is like Disney with the cruises and theme parks.  Disney actually has specific planned living communities in FL.

Not for seniors but for people who are fans.  I don't know if it's golf or they want to go to Disney World every year but they've sold a lot of homes.

As far as the other stuff Kendall promised, he has no plans to deliver any of it.  He's trying to pump up the stock price, to blow up Mattson's acquisition.

It doesn't get more complicated than that.

[Francie]

55 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

feel like in this instance, Logan or his estate are the only ones who could sue over it. Kendall had the finance guy running the numbers, and he said they could make an argument for the claim. 

No. Current Waystar execs edited Logan Roy's statement, and Kendall told the audience, "Here's what my father had to say about the value." Breaking it down more fully, Kendall was saying, "Here's how this legend, this figure almost mythical in how successful and business savvy he was, evaluated the potential of this project." That was a misstatement of fact, and it was done with the specific intent to overvalue Waystar, and for further nefarious purposes in tanking a deal Romana and Kendall were just entrusted to complete by virtue of their being voted as co-CEOs. 

I'm thinking of the wrong being done to the shareholders, stake holders in the deal with Go Jo, and the public at large. What you're referencing seems to be a possible defamation claim Logan has against them for changing his words. You can't defame a dead person. That's why there's so man tell-alls after people die. One's reputation is not an asset that's passed along, inheritance-style. 

Whatever other book cooking they did, that illegal act stands alone.  Kendall's just at fault, but in my imagination he skates and Greg takes the fall. A girl can dream. 

[heatherchandler]

13 hours ago, Marley said:

 

Kendall seems to be extra amped. What new drugs is he on lol.

 

He’s definitely on something, right?  They rarely show him actually doing drugs but just how he acts on them.  So I’m guessing he’s doing them.
 

3 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I have been thinking about this for a while. I like the show but hate the way Kendall, Roman, and Shiv (more so Roman) talk. That gibberish of  "yeah, whatever," "blah blah blah," or "the thingy," and stuff like that.  They do this a lot, and it is annoying and come off as if they were told to ad-lib.

I actually like the way they talk, I can’t understand what they are trying to say a lot of the time, like what they are actually saying in their gibberish, but I like it.  My husband was saying just last night that he’s so sick of hearing “fuck fuck fuckery, fuck off, etc.”
 

Kendall’s “numbers” are as real as the vapor clouds.  I’m wondering what he wanted them to look like; what did he see in Berlin?

[Enigma X]

For me, is not the occasional gibberish but the constant gibberish that makes me feel as if the writers had no idea what dialog to write and handwaved it. When the dialog on this show is good, it is very good, but when it gets stuck in the constant "yeah, yeahs," whatevers," and "thingys," and even the gibberish "fuckity fucks" it gets annoying.

[Artsda]

Living+ made me think of Margaritaville villages, but now with crime free living line makes think of Disney Celebration or Golden Oak. 

Celebration ended up with crime.  Golden Oaks didn't since houses cost so much more.

[MBayGal]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

So either Shiv ends up with Tom, building a family or she decides Tom isn’t worthy and raises their child herself, while getting what she wants as far as control of and spoils from Waystar.

or, option 3:  she has an abortion. To me,  that is the most realistic, least soap-operaish decision for Shiv.  

[sistermagpie]

14 hours ago, Artsda said:

Shiv this episode came out really stupid to me just the way she kept choosing Mattson's side over her brothers. Being his inside girl and basically letting him use her and then her trying to sabotage what her brothers were doing. She tried to get Roman to do her bidding and Kendall won and then Roman is the one looking bad and she's going to now have sympathy for him looking as he walks out. 

I thought Shiv was fine in this ep--but walking a dangerous line, as Tom said. She wasn't in on the Tweet, she just suggested it would be good if he could derail things. Then she told him the Tweet was bad and he deleted it--and Kendall got the credit, which made him look better.

14 hours ago, Artsda said:

There was the scene where she's got the appointment then we see her crying Could she no longer pregnant? Could it have been an appointment we didn't see? 

That was her own appointment with her grief.

14 hours ago, Artsda said:

I don't mind Roman firing Gerri like he did. Or suggestion of firing her. She called him out in front of others scolding him in front of others. He should remind her who is boss and she should show that respect. 

I thought they were alone when she scolded him--for good reason, because he didn't understand the ramifications of firing a studio head just to be shown respect. It has the opposite effect. He looks like a spoiled boy firing other people because he hasn't earned respect. He was the same way with the studio exec, acting like she was disrespecting him by not talking to him as if he knew anything just because he didn't know anything.

 

4 hours ago, aghst said:

The other thing is, Roman had a deep fake video of Logan belittling his micro dick on his phone which he kept playing over and over.

It is plausibly something Logan would say but it’s likely a fake.

You can tell it's fake, imo. You can hear the audio editing in it. I didn't think he just wanted to hear Logan's voice. He can hear that plenty of places. I think he was upset that he'd done stupid things all day and was berating himself with his father's voice. (Which is probably how his own inner voice sounds in those moments.) Kendall and Shiv both got something and he didn't because he couldn't commit well.

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also, they really have to go out of their way to make his sons look like complete idiots just to keep propping Logan. I'd like to think Shiv is the puppetmaster that winds up on top but I have no confidence that will happen, since the show seems determined to prove all of Logan's children are complete and utter screw-ups that can never live up to his magnificence.

I don't think the point at all is that they can't live up to his magnificence, more just that he was dominating for them--not everyone. Personally, I think it's a good thing they make the kids look like idiots because why shouldn't they be? It doesn't prop up Logan, imo, it's about nepotism. The only reason they're CEOs is because their Daddy had luck in business. They've been handed everything, born on third and think they've hit a triple. 

Ken's a competent but unexceptional businessman who'd probably be fine on some level but fails because he has no original ideas on his own, so everything he says is empty and vague and derivative. Roman's barely done anything--his big effort was to go to a weeklong training for executives and he thought his one good idea ought to have put him in charge of everything. Shiv's the only one who had a real job and that's the only one that she's basically competent at--and she wasn't the boss.

3 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

For me, is not the occasional gibberish but the constant gibberish that makes me feel as if the writers had no idea what dialog to write and handwaved it. When the dialog on this show is good, it is very good, but when it gets stuck in the constant "yeah, yeahs," whatevers," and "thingys," and even the gibberish "fuckity fucks" it gets annoying.

It sounds to me like the writers understand that the characters don't know what they mean. They just know they want something big and successful and expect someone else to fill it in.

I thought this episode was really interesting, personally. It seemed like there was a lot of movement with things laid down that just hadn't paid off yet, particularly Kendall outright lying (and making Logan lie) to inflate the stock prices. If Matsson can't buy, it doesn't seem like that will be good in the long run when the stock goes down. Apparently what he was doing was just what happened with WeWork, pretending a real estate deal was digital and so could just be imaginary. Great that he didn't melt down, but in typical Roy style, to him that made him Steve Jobs.

[BlackberryJam]

Kendall's presentation planning seemed so much like the Too Much Birthday episode where he wanted to float down from the rafters singing Honesty or something. Kendall wants to be a showman and have these big meaningful production numbers where he is the star. Like his rap to Logan. But he has neither the talent nor the vision and he can't settle on an idea and follow it through. 

Roman was circling the drain and lashing out this episode. He fires Joy. He fires Geri. He follows Shiv's lead and bails on the presentation with Kendall. Kendall, because Roman bailed, abandons his stupid co-pilots idea and pulls out a decent presentation. So Roman was left out of that success as well. 

[iMonrey]

Shiv's grief for Logan's passing is interesting to me because I never got a sense that Logan cared about her any more than his other children or that they were ever particularly close. I know what it's like to have an abusive father like that and when he died there were a lot of complicated emotions. My sister is sort of like Shiv, after our father died she reacted as though she had always been "daddy's little girl" and was lost without him, but in truth they were never really that close because he wasn't the type of person who was close to anyone. So I kind of get it - Shiv is mourning the loss of a relationship she never really had but has convinced herself she did because that's easier than facing the truth.

[DrSpaceman73]

6 hours ago, TexasGal said:

I didn’t understand why Mattson was so fixated on not wanting real estate.  Buying property and building whatever the “land cruises” are supposed to be will take a while. 

Many business people just don't want to deal with things they aren't familiar with, which wasn't a bad thing at all. If you don't understand or have experience in an area it's best to stay away from unless you want to lose money. 

I dont think it's him being against real estate per se just not something he's handled in the past or cares to learn about. 

8 hours ago, tomsmom said:

1. Where does Shiv get off being pissed about them not including her? Did she tell them about the blood deliveries? How bout taking that pic to send to him?

2. Does Greg need to be included in everything?? Their mom’s and Connor’s wedding, the retreat, LA.

3. Are they ever going to effing bury Logan? 

Greg's the spunky comic relief. 

Plus he's part of the quad 4!

In reality they keep him around to do crappy sneaky and potentially illegal things they don't want go be involved with or do themselves. Like the film editing order. 

[DiamondGirl]

I’m slow and just don’t understand what is happening.  I thought they left Norway with a big deal in place but no?  I’m not made for all this high finance lol.

[MBayGal]

56 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Shiv is mourning the loss of a relationship she never really had but has convinced herself she did because that's easier than facing the truth.

I'm sure that is true for many people, but for some the deep grief is because they have lost the chance of ever having the relationship that they tried so hard to have.   

[DrSpaceman73]

27 minutes ago, DiamondGirl said:

I’m slow and just don’t understand what is happening.  I thought they left Norway with a big deal in place but no?  I’m not made for all this high finance lol.

An offer was made that everyone loves but kendall and roman. Basically because they don't like Matsson 

The deal still has to be approved by the board and finalized.  Kendall and Roman are doing all they can to tank the deal and make it fall through. 

Matsson is using Shiv to do all he can to steer things how he wants them in the meantime.  And to piss off the CE-bros.   

Edited May 1, 2023 by DrSpaceman73

[tennisgurl]

Kendall does have a sort of charisma when he isn't just leaking desperation, so I can see how he would do alright doing a big speech, even if he was full on manic break down energy for most of the episode until the very moment he turned it around. He basically said nothing, but he said it with a decent amount of flair, enough so that people don't think the company is utterly tanking, so he made it out alright. He does love to play the showman, even if it always seems like he's playing a part. 

All of the Roy's are flailing so painfully without dad around, Kendall and Roman are trying so pathetically hard to act like the big bosses that they come off as kids playing CEO dress up, while Shiv is playing both sides because she's so pissed at feeling cut out, when she isn't scheduling her cry breaks and making eyes at her ex husband. I think that first scene with the Roy kids at the meeting with the old guard was very telling, Roman and Kendall were so obviously making things up to get the board to lose interest in the deal, Shiv was visibly annoyed by their obvious lies, and the old guard just casually ignored them and moved now. Now they're trying to throw their weight around, which I think will be a mistake in the long run. 

Not a bad episode, although the dialogue wasn't quite as cracking as usual. It probably only felt like a decent episode instead of a great one because the rest of the season has been so ridiculously good. 

[Kath94]

San Junipero from Black Mirror.

 

[DobbsFox]

I found this episode fascinating in that we get to see what happens when the Roy kids are finally in charge. I mean, we know they're going to f*ck things up (and expect applause from their minions while doing it), but just how fast and how thoroughly will they do it? They're off to a fantastic start.

Roman displaying all kinds of inferiority complexes through his new power to fire anyone with a vagina (getting back at Mom in his own unique way, perhaps...?). Kendall writing financial projection checks any conscious person knows for a fact he can't cash so he can once again snatch defeat from victory. Shiv gleefully doing Matsson's bidding because that's what she does for anyone who's a tiny bit nice to her, while inching ever closer to installing a top-notch and pricey S&M room in her condo.

In some ways this actually could have been a pretty good series-ending episode. As it is, seems like things are lining up for either Greg or Tom to end up on top. I don't see a long-term sustainable future for The Three.

Edited May 1, 2023 by DobbsFox
clarify a line

[DrSpaceman73]

44 minutes ago, Kath94 said:

San Junipero from Black Mirror.

 

Or the whole series upload.  They could just make succession the prequel to that show. 

[SnarkAttack]

8 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I have been thinking about this for a while. I like the show but hate the way Kendall, Roman, and Shiv (more so Roman) talk. That gibberish of  "yeah, whatever," "blah blah blah," or "the thingy," and stuff like that.  They do this a lot, and it is annoying and come off as if they were told to ad-lib.

I agree.  Really choppy, and it's very hard to listen to.  

[Blakeston]

And we're supposed to believe that these thuddingly inarticulate characters are able to come up with world-class insults and jokes when the situation calls for it.

[sistermagpie]

10 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

And we're supposed to believe that these thuddingly inarticulate characters are able to come up with world-class insults and jokes when the situation calls for it.

I assume the idea is that they grew up needing and learning to insult each other and why they're superior. They're inarticulate about things they don't know about: international football, feelings of affection, creative ideas. Really, not even just inarticulate but insecure.

Edited May 1, 2023 by sistermagpie

[Dminches]

I have always felt that Kendall and Roman talk the way they do because they have nothing substantive to say. They fill up time and space but nothing comes out other than repeated, meaningless words.

 

[DrSpaceman73]

1 hour ago, Dminches said:

I have always felt that Kendall and Roman talk the way they do because they have nothing substantive to say. They fill up time and space but nothing comes out other than repeated, meaningless words.

 

I think there is much truth to that.

They have ideas but aren't smart enough to articulate the details, so they talk with a bunch of emphasis and strong sounding phrases to make it seem like they know what they're doing. 

[Blackie]

10 hours ago, nb360 said:

Living+ sounds like an upscale assisted living facility or a continuing care community (CCC). At a certain age and if you don't have any children, it's comforting to know that certain things will be taken care of, as you get older.

 

Already some people are selling their houses and just going on cruises.

Living+ made me think of Upload, I guess that would be the next step

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, MBayGal said:

or, option 3:  she has an abortion. To me,  that is the most realistic, least soap-operaish decision for Shiv.  

In my experience, TV rarely acknowledges that abortion is a thing that women actually might do, let alone actually have one.

I don't think I could come up with five examples of all my TV watching where a main character actually had an abortion simply because she did not want a pregnancy on my own. Googling came up with a few that I might have seen but had no memory of -- Cristina Yang from Grey's Anatomy, Olivia Pope from Scandal, Jane's mom from Jane the Virgin, and Paula from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. 

Now the Succession writers still may go there, but I suspect not.

[MBayGal]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In my experience, TV rarely acknowledges that abortion is a thing that women actually might do, let alone actually have one.

But this is HBO. They don't have the restraints of non-cable shows.  And did "Maude" have an abortion?  It was decades ago, so I'm not sure.

ETA: Yes, in 1972, the 47-y-o character Maude chose to have an abortion.  If Norman Lear could do it in 1972 on CBS, Jesse Armstrong can do it on HBO in 2023. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by MBayGal
hbo

[Milburn Stone]

This episode made me uncomfortable, but not because I thought it was sub-par. I was just so anguished by Roman's pain, Shiv's confusion, and (what seemed to be) Ken's delusion, and where all these things were leading. Usually we have a goodly dose of humor to lighten the suspense. Not this time. But that was a choice, not a failure. On Day 3 after Logan's death (if that's where we are), the emotional chickens of a lifetime are coming home to roost.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Milburn Stone