S04.E04: Honeymoon States

[absnow54]

4 minutes ago, Lassus said:

BTW, I like to criticize because it's appointment television now and think the show is brilliant. 

One of my criticisms today is Greg.  Maybe it's me, but I DON'T see any growth there.  Maybe that's the point I suppose, but he's just the same every week.  It's actually pretty tiresome and I hated him as a character even more this week.  (I don't hate the character, I hate that he is a character at all.)

Agreed. Greg has been totally unnecessary the last two episodes. I fell like even the writers know it, since they had him penciled into Logan's wishes as a question mark. 

[BC4ME]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

Still, given she just got the amnio test results back, I'd think she was in the we're/I'm not telling anyone yet window.

I just rewatched the scene, because I knew there was something more to it, and yep.  The doctor said "The journey we went on with the amniocentesis after what the blood tests showed us, everything looks healthy."  So it sounds like there was a possible problem from an earlier test.  The doctor tells her to make an appointment for her 20 week visit, so we know she's less than 20 weeks. 

 

I'm not disputing whether she's in a window to tell people yet. Just that she's in her second trimester. I will say she'll have to tell people soon because it's hard for most people to hide it by 20 weeks.

Of those screening tests for genetic defects, alpha fetoprotein has a high false positive rate and is frequently the one that causes people to get an amniocentesis to confirm genetic defects. This actually happened to me but back then they couldn't do amnio until a bit later, after 20 weeks IIRC so I didn't get it. Still had a healthy baby.

So for Shiv, she's got the green light to continue her pregnancy and it's getting late to abort it, although she still could. But it seems like she wants the baby? And didn't she make some comment about Logan holding or rocking grandchildren and how that's never going to happen now? I'll have to watch again, but I thought I picked up on that. Maybe she thought the grand baby would help her position with Logan. Since these people never seem to do anything for normal, genuine reasons.  

[MerBearHou]

2 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I think the actress is very good at making me NOT want to empathize with her.  LOL. Sarah Snook is great. 

Agreed -- my heart *never* goes out to Shiv.  Great job by Sarah Snook, though -- she's acting the hell out of the script and character she's given.

[BlackberryJam]

I thought Kerry had some drugs, not vitamins? I might need to watch that again. Kerry thoroughly enjoyed bullying people. She made no friends and had no talent. And she was banging a geezer to get to that role. Suddenly, she’s got nothing and no one. No job, no friends, no protector, and likely no money to fall back on. Makes sense to me she’d be a disaster. I also thought she was on something…

I kind of imagined that if Kerry had gotten herself upstairs, she would have barricaded herself in and refused to leave. 

As to the bodyguards taking Marcia’s orders, they were members of the household staff. It’s Marcia’s house. About to be Connor’s, but currently Marcia’s.

I’m sure Marcia is getting more from the will than she would from whatever prenup she and Logan had. 

[chaifan]

7 minutes ago, BC4ME said:

So for Shiv, she's got the green light to continue her pregnancy and it's getting late to abort it, although she still could. But it seems like she wants the baby?

I've never been pregnant, but it would seem to me that given there was indication of problems early on, if Shiv intended to abort she wouldn't have proceeded with further tests to determine if everything was ok or not.  She probably wouldn't have even had testing done - she would have just made the decision to abort.  I think it's consistent with her character to have initially decided to keep the baby, but when faced with a possible problem, may have seen that as relief for maybe making a decision for her that she wasn't able to make earlier (aborting).  Now that everything is ok, she's both relieved an a little "oh, what the fuck do I do now?". 

For once, I'd love to see a pregnant tv character in a serious (or semi-serious) show NOT have any pregnancy complications, convenient miscarriages, accidents that may harm the baby, etc.  When talking about tv tropes, these are at the top of my pet peeve list.  In serious-TV-land, there's no such thing as an uneventful pregnancy.  There's enough drama in this show, we don't need pregnancy drama. 

[Penman61]

Was Marcia selling Connor the apartment (or whatever NYers call it) for $62M supposed to be some kind of burn? Was Connor expecting to just...get it for free? 

Also, have Connor's earlier liquidity problems been resolved?

Edited April 17, 2023 by Penman61

[evansmom10]

13 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

 

 All the while Greg was being a slimeball with his commentary about Kerry. Greg really tries to ingratiate himself with whoever happens to have power at the moment. (Which obviously could be said about a lot of characters. Still, he's so transparent.)

 

Well, she also was SO vicious to him, and said she was gonna tear him apart like string cheese so...

 

[MBayGal]

30 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Was Marcia selling Connor the apartment (or whatever NYers call it) for $62M supposed to be some kind of burn? Was Connor expecting to just...get it for free? 

Also, have Connor's earlier liquidity problems been resolved?

Conner was talking about putting another $100 million into his campaign, and Willa made sure to verify that he would still be rich. I assume he hasn't had time to spend that money on his campaign yet, what with the wedding and Logan's death, but even if he did, he can still afford the house, if he does go through with buying it.  Also, presumably he will inherit money in Logan's will. 

[Avabelle]

Jeremy Strong does little boy lost so well. That opening scene with him - he sometimes seems like the youngest of them all.

The line about how his father made him hate him and then he died. That he didn’t feel he liked him very much and that he’d disappointed him. So heartbreaking. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Avabelle

[Carolina Girl]

I'm trying to figure out why Willa's comment "and you, too" was such a burn to Marcia.  I don't recall anything shady about Marcia's past - can someone fill me in?  

1 hour ago, MBayGal said:

Also, presumably he will inherit money in Logan's will. 

Plus his share of the deal with Mattson.  I believe Connor gets an equal sibling share of the money, the same as the three that are involved in the business.  

[Avabelle]

Is Roman not the youngest? I always thought he was supposed to be. In the family picture in the opening credits it looks like Shiv is third oldest and Roman the youngest. I always thought that Sarah Snook being the actual youngest confused who people thought was the youngest. 

3 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'm trying to figure out why Willa's comment "and you, too" was such a burn to Marcia.  I don't recall anything shady about Marcia's past - can someone fill me in?  

What does Marcia go? I always thought she was just a socialite.

[cardigirl]

11 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'm trying to figure out why Willa's comment "and you, too" was such a burn to Marcia.  I don't recall anything shady about Marcia's past - can someone fill me in?  

Maybe because Marcia had been on the outs and was now back established as, at least in legal terms, the wife. 

8 minutes ago, Avabelle said:

Is Roman not the youngest? I always thought he was supposed to be. In the family picture in the opening credits it looks like Shiv is third oldest and Roman the youngest. I always thought that Sarah Snook being the actual youngest confused who people thought was the youngest. 

What does Marcia go? I always thought she was just a socialite.

I always thought Roman was the youngest as well, but HBO lists Shiv as the youngest Roy child. 

[Carolina Girl]

There's a part of me that wonders if Connor is going to try to spring his mother from the institution - if, of course, she's still alive.  I can see Logan Roy being an abusive husband (physically and mentally) and locking her away to keep her from exposing him.  Now what Logan is dead, maybe Connor can throw a little muscle and get her freed.  

4 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

I always thought Roman was the youngest as well

So did I.  His behavior screams youngest.

[absnow54]

7 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

There's a part of me that wonders if Connor is going to try to spring his mother from the institution - if, of course, she's still alive.  I can see Logan Roy being an abusive husband (physically and mentally) and locking her away to keep her from exposing him.  Now what Logan is dead, maybe Connor can throw a little muscle and get her freed.  

They have mentioned her a lot this season. 

[sistermagpie]

7 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Was Marcia selling Connor the apartment (or whatever NYers call it) for $62M supposed to be some kind of burn? Was Connor expecting to just...get it for free? 

Also, have Connor's earlier liquidity problems been resolved?

I thought it was just that Connor expected her to be less pragmatic about it. He was trying to gently suggest they could talk about it later and she was just like---here's my asking price. Sold.

5 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'm trying to figure out why Willa's comment "and you, too" was such a burn to Marcia.  I don't recall anything shady about Marcia's past - can someone fill me in?  

Because Marcia was trying to imply that Willa was a golddigger/prostitute who'd gotten herself into high society as an actual wife so she'd come really far. And Willa basically just said that if Marcia was trying to suggest there was some significant difference between the two of them that made Marcia classier, there wasn't.

 

5 hours ago, Avabelle said:

Is Roman not the youngest? I always thought he was supposed to be. In the family picture in the opening credits it looks like Shiv is third oldest and Roman the youngest. I always thought that Sarah Snook being the actual youngest confused who people thought was the youngest. 

Officially Shiv's listed as the oldest youngest but to me it just seems like that made more sense with the way they were originally going with Roman (where he was married with a kid in the pilot) so whatever he's officially supposed to be, he's the youngest in my headcanon. KC being older than SS doesn't matter to me either--I don't think Brian Cox is even old enough to be Alan Ruck's father irl.

Edited April 18, 2023 by sistermagpie

[Cool Breeze]

32 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'm trying to figure out why Willa's comment "and you, too" was such a burn to Marcia.  I don't recall anything shady about Marcia's past - can someone fill me in?  

My memory may be hazy but in the early episodes of the Series, the siblings believed Marcia's background to be quite murky and they were certain she was a grifter.  There was even the early storyline where she wanted her son to be part of the company.  She was portrayed as wanting to grasp as much "territory" as she could.

[cardigirl]

32 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Officially Shiv's listed as the oldest but to me it just seems like that made more sense with the way they were originally going with Roman (where he was married with a kid in the pilot) so whatever he's officially supposed to be, he's the youngest in my headcanon. KC being older than SS doesn't matter to me either--I don't think Brian Cox is even old enough to be Alan Ruck's father irl.

Do you mean youngest?  (Ima old and confuse easily.) 

[DobbsFox]

Watching Tom work the room using every trick he could think of to get back into somebody's good graces...so Tom.

[Guest]

17 hours ago, nb360 said:

 

I hated the gender politics of leaving Shiv out.

I don’t know if I consider it gender politics. Kendall had been groomed as CEO for a long time and Roman had been COO. Shiv had never had a formal role in the company on a day to day basis.

15 hours ago, nilyank said:

 

Kendall was savage especially when he pointed out that Shiv's name was not on the paper. Despite Shiv trying to imply that Logan was crossing out Kendall's name, it was clearly an underline. If Logan was going to cross out the name, he would make sure to obliterate the name completely by crossing it out many times angrily.

Major flashback to season 1 where Kendall was wanting the interim CEO spot and she kept fighting it. Personally, I think she was off base both times and likely jealous. But really, Kendall was initially groomed for the role and I think the main reason he didn’t get it season 1 was because Logan was petty and felt threatened.

3 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Was Marcia selling Connor the apartment (or whatever NYers call it) for $62M supposed to be some kind of burn? Was Connor expecting to just...get it for free? 

Also, have Connor's earlier liquidity problems been resolved?

I interpreted it more like Marcia came back to play the grieving widow but is negotiating before the body is metaphorically cold.

[iMonrey]

Who the hell is Colin? I heard the name several times, someone who was standing at the front door, wearing jeans. Marcia gave him a watch. I've watched every episode, I have no recollection of anyone named Colin.

[DobbsFox]

2 hours ago, Avabelle said:

Jeremy Strong does little boy lost so well. That opening scene with him - he sometimes seems like the youngest of them all.

The line about how his father made him hate him and then he died. That he didn’t feel he liked him very much and that he’d disappointed him. So heartbreaking. 

And yet he hasn't been on the job 10 minutes and he's already going behind Roman's back and blackmailing Hugo to his bidding. He's going to be a disaster as CEO.

[cardigirl]

13 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who the hell is Colin? I heard the name several times, someone who was standing at the front door, wearing jeans. Marcia gave him a watch. I've watched every episode, I have no recollection of anyone named Colin.

He was Logan's driver and bodyguard. The guy he ate a meal with in episode two? (or maybe one.)

Edited April 17, 2023 by cardigirl

[beaker73]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who the hell is Colin? I heard the name several times, someone who was standing at the front door, wearing jeans. Marcia gave him a watch. I've watched every episode, I have no recollection of anyone named Colin.

Me neither! I just went to iMDb  he’s listed as being in 30 is episodes. Logan’s bodyguard?   I’m questioning everything now. LOL. 

[kathe5133]

7 minutes ago, DobbsFox said:

And yet he hasn't been on the job 10 minutes and he's already going behind Roman's back and blackmailing Hugo to his bidding. He's going to be a disaster as CEO.

And Roman went behind both of their backs pre Logan's death.  Shiv would also sell either brother down the river in a heartbeat!  Kendall did exactly what Logan would have done and actually did do.  When the takeover failed, Logan planted stories that Kendall was drinking and drugging long before he ever picked up again.  This is what they learned so this is what they'll do.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, beaker73 said:

Me neither! I just went to iMDb  he’s listed as being in 30 is episodes. Logan’s bodyguard?   I’m questioning everything now. LOL. 

He’s been in 30 episodes but very minor except when he had a meal with Logan on his birthday this season. 
I’ve definitely noticed him on screen (episode 1 when Greg first approached, later season 1 when someone threw urine on Logan) but did not know his name til this season.

[kittykat]

I think Kendall can make a good CEO but he needs the help of his siblings.

Kendall knows the inner workings of the business and can build the right connections.  His weakness is his unfleshed ideas and he's not the best public figure. Roman is a better idea guy, has his finger more on the pulse what will sell but doesn't have the business sense or rapport to make them happen.  Also he really really needs to get over his beef with Frank.  Shiv doesn't have the business sense but is the best public speaker of all of them.  Between the three there is one competent CEO but that involves working harmoniously and, well, six episodes left...not gonna last.

[DobbsFox]

18 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I think Kendall can make a good CEO but he needs the help of his siblings.

Kendall knows the inner workings of the business and can build the right connections.  His weakness is his unfleshed ideas and he's not the best public figure. Roman is a better idea guy, has his finger more on the pulse what will sell but doesn't have the business sense or rapport to make them happen.  Also he really really needs to get over his beef with Frank.  Shiv doesn't have the business sense but is the best public speaker of all of them.  Between the three there is one competent CEO but that involves working harmoniously and, well, six episodes left...not gonna last.

A couple of seasons ago I had it figured out: in an ideal world, Shiv would be CEO, Ken would be COO, and Roman would be Board Chairman, for exactly the reasons you wrote (plus, Roman has an intuitively strategic mind and knows how to read people). That would be the only way they could possibly co-exist. But of course, they won't.

[marybennet]

Am I right in thinking Shiv is the only one of the siblings who has had a job other than working for their father? 

[Penman61]

The ONLY justification for mixing family into your business is because you can trust them MORE than you could non-family members. (This assumes roughly equivalent competency, which, as we see, is not in evidence with the Roy family members individually.) 

When you trust those family members LESS than you would the average person-off-the-street, then you're just working out your family tish on a grand scale with consequences for massive numbers of people outside the family. Hence, this show.

Still hoping just one of children will just check out of the family business and make something of themselves. But there's no sign of that yet. 

[NeenerNeener]

18 hours ago, Marley said:

Tom yikes idk you are a suck up but you are prob saved by Shiv. I kind of like him tho for Shiv. I mean he’s prob the best for her with all her issues.

I don't know if being married to a 21st century Uriah Heap is really good for any woman. I'm on team Divorce.

I need to watch that scene where Kerry's bag broke all over the floor again, because there is some speculation that Kerry is pregnant too. Unless Logan rewrote his will, Kerry's kid will be illegitimate and gets N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

Edited April 17, 2023 by NeenerNeener

[PRgal]

Maybe I missed something, but was there a reason why Shiv got an amnio?  Most people opt for more non-invasive genetic testing these days (which is basically bloodwork).  

[BC4ME]

10 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Maybe I missed something, but was there a reason why Shiv got an amnio?  Most people opt for more non-invasive genetic testing these days (which is basically bloodwork).  

She had a (apparently false) positive on her blood screening tests. Probably alpha fetoprotein.

[absnow54]

48 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

I need to watch that scene where Kerry's bag broke all over the floor again, because there is some speculation that Kerry is pregnant too. Unless Logan rewrote his will, Kerry's kid will be illegitimate and gets N.O.T.H.I.N.G.

If she can prove paternity, can she sue the estate for child support? How does that work when the parent is dead?

[Macbeth1966]

9 hours ago, BC4ME said:

Amniocentesis is done weeks 15-20 so she in early second trimester. According to the timeline it could easily be Tom's during the "Even though I don't really love you" sex.

When Ton said Logan died trying to fish his iPhone out of a clogged toilet I wondered if Roman's fear that his voicemail caused Logan's heart event is true. Maybe not if it was a PE. But if he was so upset and threw his phone in the toilet maybe.  

I really do think Roman's fear that his voicemail caused Logan's heart to give out is real.   And it's a very valid concern.

Roman was not happy to be the fall guy and had to tell Geri she was about to be fired.  He was exasperated and told his father he was tired of bending over for him.  And his last words to his father were:

"So that's the question.  Are you a [redacted]? Okay, give me a buzz."  

"Okay, give me a buzz" just kills me.  Like he is trying to set up dinner plans with his father.  😂

So I was not surprised to find out during this episode that Logan was fishing his phone out of the toilet when his heart gave out. 🤣

 

[Zaffy]

Tom and Greg so much deserve each other. So much..

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Do you mean youngest?  (Ima old and confuse easily.) 

Oops! Yes, youngest. I am also old and confused myself!

[Diapason Untuned]

4 hours ago, DobbsFox said:

And yet he hasn't been on the job 10 minutes and he's already going behind Roman's back and blackmailing Hugo to his bidding. He's going to be a disaster as CEO.

It could be argued that was the right move to make as CEO. Kendall's business acumen is at it's best the colder he is.

[Blackie]

Gerry looked fantastic and way younger. Roman may not want to help old ladies anymore and I guess Gerry doesn't want to be that old lady.

[nb360]

1 hour ago, Macbeth1966 said:

So I was not surprised to find out during this episode that Logan was fishing his phone out of the toilet when his heart gave out. 🤣

If we can believe Tom, and that's sort of a big "if."

[nb360]

4 hours ago, deaja said:

I don’t know if I consider it gender politics. Kendall had been groomed as CEO for a long time and Roman had been COO. Shiv had never had a formal role in the company on a day to day basis.

Yes, but Shiv's reaction to her brothers keeping her out -- "Afraid of my streaked mascara or that I might faint?" -- kind of highlighted her gender.

[Simon Boccanegra]

There was a lot of verbal savagery in the episode, but for me, the most lethal line was Gerri's to Karl. "Look, I think you're a corporate legend. What you did in the '90s? With cable? Huge!" She made every word of that backhanded compliment count. Starting off with "I think" (so, others may not agree), then "legend" and "'90s" (Karl is old and has been coasting on laurels for a long time), and then "cable" as the cherry on the condescension sundae. Karl's big boasting point from 30 years ago didn't even concern something most people still care about! 

Some shows peak early, some late. Succession might be remembered above all as a great-last-season show.

[Daisychain]

There is so much excellent analysis of this episode in the above posts, and I read every word.  I did have a different reaction -- I've been watching this show from Episode 1, Season 1, and enjoyed it greatly even though it was a tv show about awful people doing terrible things.  This episode was the car/airplane/Amtrak crash version of bad people doing bad things, it was oppressive in its damage and sadness, and not very entertaining or engaging for me.  I mostly flinched.  I checked the time left a couple of times because I wasn't enjoying watching this.  

-Shiv alone, pregnant, marginalized, manipulated

-Kendall, still desperate for Dad's approval to the point that only the job title will make him feel better

-Roman, same, but also sure he killed Dad and still tiny bit of empathy

-Marcia, might as been wearing Nic Cage's Dracula fangs

-Kerry, idiot, now in the taxi to the subway

-Tom, manipulative bottom dweller POS

-Greg, just bottom dweller POS

Even tiny-necked insider-trading guy (Hugo IIRC)! 

The only people who could come out of this alive are maybe Gerri, Connor, and Willa?  Vulture.com said the face of the townhouse is 991 Fifth, which is the southern edge of the Met, but mid-block, not corner, and owned by a non-profit and definitely not done to the 9's.  So it's reasonable to think that if it was fully updated, it'd be close to a 60MM valuation, but Connor should have started out in the 50s.  Those I think? the most valued 4 blocks in Manhattan if you don't want to be in the sky-est high rises on the Park  This episode just made me want to go to the Met and Central Park, and not deal with the other miserable people.  

So RIP Logan.  I think a lot of us know Brian Cox as the s---head from the Jason Bourne stuff.  However, when I was a teenager I read all these military adventure novels, including the Sharpe's novels by Bernard Cornwell, about a very fictitious rifleman during the Napoleonic Wars.  In the BBC version, Brian Cox played Wellington's head of intelligence, with a dry comment, a wink, and a nudge in the right direction.  It's wasn't a huge role but he was so great.  

Sorry, this is the end of my very long comment.  This episode was a lot for me, and it was even more miserable than I anticipated.

[aghst]

On 4/16/2023 at 10:23 PM, kittykat said:

Whew, Marcia is back and has had intimate convos with Logan every morning and savagely dispatched Kerry.  Welcome back!

And Kendall finally got what he wanted and is already going behind Roman's back in regards to the dad smear campaign.  Can't say he was wrong, it's exactly what Logan would have done.

It's just getting started and I'm all in.

Marcia congratulates Willa on the marriage, "look how far you've come."

Willa:  "you too, look at you now."

Game recognizes game, though she's going to have to go with Connor to the Honeymoon states -- for Connor's vanity political campaign -- rather than to an actual honeymoon destination.

 

Kendall, maybe he's showing a devious and ruthless persona or maybe he recognized that him seizing power and making power moves is what Logan wanted from him, what Logan would expect and respect

He was right, telling Hugo it's what his father would have done and then threatening Hugo with the strap on, the same accusation Hugo had flung at his own daughter.

I think Shiv knows Roman and Kendall will freeze her out so she went for promises of money (wet my beak) and she's probably also thinking about the pregnancy, how it might derail her plans.

[Lassus]

15 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

I'm trying to figure out why Willa's comment "and you, too" was such a burn to Marcia.  I don't recall anything shady about Marcia's past - can someone fill me in?  

I took it simply as stating that despite her superior attitude, she's simply the same as Willa, hitching a ride on a needy, wealthy man.

[Pestilentia]

Quote

When Ton said Logan died trying to fish his iPhone out of a clogged toilet I wondered if Roman's fear that his voicemail caused Logan's heart event is true. Maybe not if it was a PE. But if he was so upset and threw his phone in the toilet maybe.  

 

Something that bothered me and I have not seen discussed- as Roman was walking to the plane to see DeadDad he took his jacket off on the way across the tarmac. When he walked back to the press conference area his jacket was nowhere in sight- he left it behind.  

I think something is up with that. I can't speculate as to what- if he cushioned Logan's head with the jacket with his phone remaining  in the pocket he'd have an excuse to ask for a phone back from the medical examiner's office. Maybe his only reason to go see DeadDad was to look for his phone or do something hinky with the phone or hide the phone.  IMO there is "phone drama" to come and I think somehow this will figure in.

I dunno- I just found it odd that Roman took his jacket to and left it on the empty airplane.

Edited April 18, 2023 by Pestilentia

[laurakaye]

 

On 4/17/2023 at 3:21 AM, Avabelle said:

Were there any hints this season she could be pregnant?

The hint I remember most is the final scene of season 3, where Shiv sees Logan greet Tom and she realizes it was Tom who tipped Logan off that the kids were on their way over...Shiv winces and places her hand on her stomach as if she's just felt a sharp pain.

23 hours ago, absnow54 said:

Someone pointed out that Kendall Logan Roy has the initials "KLR"... Logan named him Killer. 

Killer, Tumbledown, and Pinky.  Oh, and Connor.

49 minutes ago, Pestilentia said:

I dunno- I just found it odd that Roman took his jacket to and left it on the empty airplane.

I noticed that too and thought it had to have something to do with his phone, but couldn't figure out what.

Did anyone notice Matthew MacFadyen slip into his British accent when he said, "smells like roses and rotting corpses?"  I listened to it three times and it made me smile.  I saw an interview with Sarah Snook and she talked about how she and Matthew give each other crap when one of them slips up with their American accents.  

Regarding Shiv's pregnancy, I felt it was strongly telegraphed that she was going to take a spill when she came down the stairs in pants with long, flowing legs - I immediately thought, she is totally going to trip on that hem, why would she wear that when she knows she's pregnant?

Roman imitating his dad when the sibs were talking about Logan's "friends" was everything.  I can't recall the exact quote - something like "he's either **** off" or "get the **** away from me."  Just another super quick flash of brilliance in a show packed with those moments.

Roman picked up a container of pills from Logan's desk and made a face - I assumed they were Viagra.  I also thought it was a power move on Karolina and Hugo's part to bring Kendall and Roman into Logan's study and force them to witness his empty desk chair.  There were probably 10 rooms in that house they could've met in.

Jeremy Strong goes from a broken man-child in the opening scene to giving Hugo a rather bone-chilling smile in the final scene.  Amazing.  

Edited April 18, 2023 by laurakaye

[laurakaye]

Something I noticed - in two different scenes, we see Shiv's reaction to seeing Tom enter a room, followed by Greg.  When she sees Tom, she has a sad and pensive, almost nostalgic, look on her face.  As soon as she spots Greg tailing Tom, her expression turns to one of complete disgust.  I know she loathes Tom and Greg as the "Disgusting Brothers" but I found myself wondering where her hatred of Greg comes from.  Cousin Greg is easy to hate - he's an intrusion even on his best days - but it's almost like Shiv resents Greg for being by Tom's side?  Or on Tom's side?

I found it interesting that after the sibs had decided on Kendall and Roman as co-COOs and the three of them entered the room where the old guard was waiting for them, Shiv was the one who commandingly went through the door first.

Also, do we think Marcia has clocked that Shiv is pregnant?  When they passed each other on the stairs, I feel like Marcia may have noticed something.

Edited April 18, 2023 by laurakaye

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 4/17/2023 at 12:40 AM, DawnDavenport said:

Can someone remind me why we should root for Marcia? I mean Willa read her for filth in that small exchange. She took Marcia's words and stabbed her back with an extra twist. Go Willa. To me, Willa is the only honest human in this horrid bunch of sociopaths.

Marica is no better than anyone else. She was definitey lying when she said her and Roy talked everyday. She's just angling for her piece of the pie like everyone else and is just as trashy and power hungry as the rest of them, her accent just makes her seem more classy than she really is.

"Rooting" is a strong word. But I do think Marcia is a better person than most of the other Roys, which isn't the highest bar.

I do think that she cared on some level for Logan and put up with his BS because of it. I do think that if it was just about the money, she could have had that easily by divorcing him. There would presumably be proof of his infidelity to be found, and even if there was a harsh prenup in place that could not be broken, one would think that she'd still come out of it with a billion of his (presumed) 10+ billion in assets. 

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

Also, do we think Marcia has clocked that Shiv is pregnant?  When they passed each other on the stairs, I feel like Marcia may have noticed something.

Marcia picked up on Shiv's anger/disappointment on what went down in deciding that Ken and Roman would be co-COO's.  Shiv was pissed, and it showed.  I don't think it had anything to do with her pregnancy, and since Marcia's been "shopping in Italy" for the last few months, I don't think there's any way she would have been able to pick up on it. 

3 hours ago, laurakaye said:

Regarding Shiv's pregnancy, I felt it was strongly telegraphed that she was going to take a spill when she came down the stairs in pants with long, flowing legs - I immediately thought, she is totally going to trip on that hem, why would she wear that when she knows she's pregnant?

I have a similar pair of pants.  ("Similar" in shape and flow, but I'm sure mine cost $29 vs. Shiv's likely $1,000+ pair.)  I had to stop wearing them because I tripped twice.  Once on flat ground, and I face planted.  Once on stairs, and I was very lucky I caught myself on the banister - I was about 6-7 steps up.  And I was wearing flats both times.  Anyways, I had the same thought as Shiv walked down the main stairs, and sort of gave a sigh of relief, then smack!  down she goes on the 1-2 steps into the next room.   But, as I asked up thread, what was the point?  The 1-2 step fall isn't going to harm the baby.  Was it just to really highlight how off-kilter (mentally and physically) the conversation with Ken and Roman made her? 

Totally off topic...  Why do we use an English phonetic for Shiv?  Her full name is Siobhan.  How would that be shortened in Ireland?  Just wondering...

 

[realityplease]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

. . .Shiv walked down the main stairs, and sort of gave a sigh of relief, then smack!  down she goes on the 1-2 steps into the next room.   But, as I asked up thread, what was the point?  The 1-2 step fall isn't going to harm the baby.  Was it just to really highlight how off-kilter (mentally and physically) the conversation with Ken and Roman made her? 

 

Yes. I think Shiv's fall was to illustrate that she's reeling - both mentally & physically.  Not only getting knocked out of the co-CEO position & having to now trust her two brothers' promises to include her in all decisions. (Brothers she knows were previously duplicitous - and as we see, Ken deciding strategy on his own by the end of the episode.)  But additionally, as I mentioned before (see below) having a pregnancy to worry about (learning the pregnancy can proceed & having to decide whether to proceed with it and if or when to tell Tom) and thinking the sibs caused Logan's death by pressing him to get more money & fly off to speak with Mattson.  All of it, a lot to deal with.

On 4/16/2023 at 11:32 PM, realityplease said:

. . .Only Shiv seems a bit unsteady, both mentally & on her feet - oof, that fall.  Thinking they caused Logan's death by sending him off by airplane to deal with Mattson, when really, Logan's pulmonary embolism could have happened anywhere. And with a pregnancy to worry about. But maybe she'll get her mojo back in Sweden.   

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by realityplease