All Episodes Discussion

[GiandujaPie]

48 minutes ago, Ellee said:

Sorry … OT here …. I hope they ‘shove her babies’ pictures in her face.’  Lori Vallow doesn’t deserve any … I repeat … any consideration at all.  She killed/had her babies killed. 
 

 

I agree. So glad the judge denied her request. Make her face up to what she did. She and Chad Daybell are disgusting excuses for humans. I hope they rot in prison. 

On another topic, did anyone else watch the Laci Peterson episode? I watched the entire 2 hours and honestly I felt it was a waste of time. I don't think there was any new information, other than being able to see Laci's mom and Amber as they look today. I do have to say Amber looks pretty good. 

The one "journalist" that Keith interviewed who believes Scott is innocent was lame. His "explanations" for the evidence that makes Scott look guilty were stupid. For example, the idea that burglars would kidnap Laci and then hold her for a few days until they saw in the news that Scott had been at the Berkeley Marina at the time so they decided to frame him by dumping her body there. Why would a group of criminals risk driving that far away with a dead body just to frame him? Laughable. Same as the explanation that Scott drove all the way to Berkeley to test out the boat and that the boat was a gift for Laci's stepfather. As the cops mentioned, if he just wanted to test out the boat, there were lots of other places he could have done that. 

I can't believe it's been 20 years though. To think that Connor would be 20 years old today. :-(

[iMonrey]

Quote

On another topic, did anyone else watch the Laci Peterson episode? I watched the entire 2 hours and honestly I felt it was a waste of time.

Agreed. This story has been told a thousand times, there's nothing new to be gleaned. Just because Peterson got a hearing for a new trial doesn't mean Dateline needed to devote two hours to rehashing this crime for the umpteenth time. Nor did it merit Keith giving airtime to some crackpot I've never heard of before claiming Peterson isn't guilty. Ultimately Peterson's request for a new trial was denied, there's nothing to see here. Unless you feel the need to relive this crime all over again.

[UsernameFatigue]

I am really interested in others' opinions on tonight's episode on the murder of Courtney Coco. 

Dateline pretty much telegraphed who the murderer was early on, when they interviewed the sister Lace and she said that her fiancé Anthony was a pall bearer, and wanted to be a pall bearer. It was totally out of the blue and really had no bearing on the discussion. But of course it took another hour plus to zero in on Anthony. 

I found Courtney's family to be very odd. Why would they never have disclosed the money that Courtney was getting from her late father's insurance? It wasn't until several years later when the grandfather called the police that they even knew about the money. I wondered if the fiancé may have killed Courtney because all or some of her money would have then gone to Lace. People have been killed for less. As it turns out the money appears to have had no bearing on the murder, but why did the family not disclose it early on?

The most shocking thing was that it appears that Lace did not disclose that her fiancé was having an affair with her sister. Or that he left on the Friday night after a big fight and didn't come home for the whole weekend. The same weekend her sister was found murdered. WTF? WTF? WTF? 

The family spent many years trying to get the murder solved, and if they (or at least the sister) had been honest from the start, the police may have taken seriously the two people who came forward and said that they knew Anthony was the murderer. 

I felt sorry for the first cop that they interviewed who was taken off the case. While the sister wasn't involved, she also wasn't being truthful, and he was right about that.  

[TVbitch]

And wasn't the guy that Anthony confessed to who the woman recorded on the phone the ex fiance of the mother?! I think his name was Seamus?! 

[DonnaMae]

If she was killed by strangulation, why didn't she have marks on her throat?

[iMonrey]

16 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

The most shocking thing was that it appears that Lace did not disclose that her fiancé was having an affair with her sister. Or that he left on the Friday night after a big fight and didn't come home for the whole weekend. The same weekend her sister was found murdered. WTF? WTF? WTF? 

Yeah, this. I am not entirely convinced the sister had nothing to do with the murder. There had to be a reason why the police zeroed in on her as a suspect early on and felt she was not being honest with them. I think at the very minimum she suspected it was her fiance and was too afraid to tell, for whatever reason - either because she feared him (although she appeared to be the stronger of the two) or because he might implicate her. The motive for the killing is murky as hell.

I too figured the case would circle back to the fiance just because of the way he was mentioned early on. Yet police said there was no evidence of strangulation or even suffocation (no marks on her face, around the mouth, etc.) and no indication of sexual assault, so why was she found undressed from the waste down? If the guy was having an ongoing affair with her why kill her?

I'm not sure I could have voted to convict, much as I think he was involved one way or another.

[Arkay]

20 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Dateline pretty much telegraphed who the murderer was early on, when they interviewed the sister Lace and she said that her fiancé Anthony was a pall bearer, and wanted to be a pall bearer. It was totally out of the blue and really had no bearing on the discussion. But of course it took another hour plus to zero in on Anthony. 

I hate when Dateline does this, and they do it all the time.

There is no reason to mention a trivial detail about one pall bearer unless it’s a Chekov’s Gun clue. Then they did it again when they specifically mentioned that Anthony erected the cross.

So all through the first hour and a half it’s just a waiting game until they get around to telling us Anthony was the prime suspect. 
 

I liked the mother and have no qualms about her seeking justice for her daughter. 
I do side-eye Lace, though. I don’t think she murdered Courtney but she certainly knew a lot more than she was willing to say. 
 

I imagine anyone who is innocent and takes a polygraph would react emotionally, but pulling the machine off is definitely telling.

[BusyOctober]

Of course it’s awful that Courtney was murdered.  Her mother shouldn’t have had to lose her child. But the sister’s story is just off.

Like some of you here, I have some major side eye and shade in Lace’s direction.  It appeared to me in her interview, Lace was aware of the affair between her fiancé and her sister?  And while Courtney was still alive?  The cheap ass fiancé/killer bough a ring set, and split the two rings between the sisters, and Lace realized it?  WTF?  Why wouldn’t Lace have dropped these very pertinent details during her interviews with the police?  

Andrea Canning continues to excel at being the worst interviewer ever. As soon as Lace’s fiancé was mentioned being a pall bearer and Andrea repeated it a few times, I said, “Well, we know who did it now…too bad we have to spend another hour and forty minutes listening to Andrea parrot every single response she gets to her inane questions.”

[iMonrey]

12 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

Andrea Canning continues to excel at being the worst interviewer ever. As soon as Lace’s fiancé was mentioned being a pall bearer and Andrea repeated it a few times, I said, “Well, we know who did it now…too bad we have to spend another hour and forty minutes listening to Andrea parrot every single response she gets to her inane questions.”

What tipped me off was when Lace said she called her fiance, and Andrea stopped her and said "You mean, your fiance?" and Lace had to say "Yes, my fiance at the time." I just thought it was a weird thing for Andrea to need clarification on. Also, all the "coming up" promos showed Andrea saying "You must have felt so betrayed!" to Courtney's mother. So clearly the killer was someone she knew.

[heatherchandler]

That detective knew Lace was keeping secrets, and she was!  And the guy was reassigned because of her bullshit.  Lace not telling them about the affair (!!) the money, etc. shows me that they didn’t really want the killer to be found.  

[GiandujaPie]

Re: Courtney Coco

It was pretty obvious that Lace's fiance had something to do with it. There was also something so off about Lace herself too. She was clearly hiding something but I don't think she had anything to do with her sister's death. 

However, based on what we were told and shown on Dateline though, I don't think I could have voted to convict. There was too much reasonable doubt IMO and not enough evidence. I wanted to know how the original coroner could have stated there was no drugs in her system, no visible marks of trauma and still ruled it a homicide? How many times have we seen on other Dateline episodes where the coroner had more visible signs of trauma on a body and still ruled it undetermined and that later creates reasonable doubt? How could this coroner rule it a homicide when according to them, there was no evidence, other than there was no evidence of anything else that could have killed her? And then how could the state lab later determine on a toxicology test that there was so much drugs in her system? One of those tests is inaccurate or the original coroner never ran an actual test, IMO. 

I've also never heard of a "traveling prosecutor". Is that for counties/parrishes that are too small to have their own prosecutor? 

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

That detective knew Lace was keeping secrets, and she was!  And the guy was reassigned because of her bullshit.  Lace not telling them about the affair (!!) the money, etc. shows me that they didn’t really want the killer to be found.  

I definitely think they wanted the killer found.  A family that doesn't want the killer found doesn't hound multiple police departments year-after-year or reach out to a PI.

But like so many families, they also don't want to expose their own BS or open up their family secrets because "of course" they had nothing to do with it. And the police were somewhat unfairly criticized because they weren't given the opportunity to pursue two leads.  And also, the ex who spills to a podcaster because of the "fame" surrounding a podcast but doesn't tell the police that she knows who did it AND Shamus doesn't go to the police are part of the problem of solving a murder as well.

16 minutes ago, GiandujaPie said:

I wanted to know how the original coroner could have stated there was no drugs in her system, no visible marks of trauma and still ruled it a homicide?

I don't know. It might have been something internal.  But sometimes when a death is "undetermined," I believe they can take the situation into consideration to make a final ruling.  The body being found in a dumpster might push the cause of death to homicide in the coroner's mind.  Plus, just because there were drugs in her system doesn't automatically mean she injested them. 

[heatherchandler]

I wonder if they did a 3rd drug test, just to clear up if she did or did not have drugs in her system.  That needs to be cleared up, I would think.

If she did, maybe she overdosed while hanging out with the brother-in-law-to-be, and he dumped her but didn’t actually kill her.

[12catcrazy]

This was kind of a weird case.  Made me think that there was a bunch of stuff that Dateline didn't tell us.   My guess (same as some of you) is that this family had all sorts of dirty laundry and didn't want it aired on Dateline.    Like why did the deceased father seem to only leave money to Courtney and not the other sisters?  My guess is that the older sisters had a different father (and I think it was mentioned that Courtney was something like 7 years younger than Lace)  and that also makes you wonder what the family dynamic was.   And that Courtney would actually have an affair with her sister's fiance - what the hell was that about?   Must have been some serious sibling rivalry there.  

And about all that money - so neither of the older sisters would get it if something happened to Courtney, but the mother would then get it and maybe she would then be subjected to pressure from her surviving daughters to share the largesse.   So, if you ask me, that money could still be a motive for Lace (or her then fiance a/k/a the guy convicted of the murder).  

I felt bad for the mother - she seemed like a religious person and all, but something went haywire with at least two of her daughters.  

[MsJamieDornan]

8 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

That detective knew Lace was keeping secrets, and she was!

Her reaction to taking a polygraph was over the top.

[Court]

Perhaps if the family had been upfront then they wouldn't have needed to hound the detectives so much. 

I'm surprised he was found guilty because there was very little evidence besides the two witnesses. I think he did it if she was murdered but I don't know if I could have convicted. 

It didn't appear a cause of death was ever established either. 

There has to be so much more to this case than what we were shown.

[nora1992]

I’m watching the 4/21 episode live and got called away, but I’m at the part of the interview with Knight and wife.  Has any reason been given for DNA tests, or not getting one?

 

[libgirl2]

I don't think they mentioned a DNA test. 

[iMonrey]

"Dead Man Talking." What a bizarre story. Clearly, Arthur Knight is Nicholas Alahverdian. Aside from the tattoos, the biggest giveaway would be his teeth, which are conveniently hidden behind his oxygen mask. And in the one photo they showed of his wedding to Miranda, his mouth is hidden behind a rose petal. His hilarious claim that someone snuck into his hospital room and inked his arms with the same tattoos Nicholas had aside, there's no way someone surreptitiously performed dental surgery on him. Nicholas's teeth are very distinctive. I just don't get why the Scottish courts took so long to affirm his identity. Seems like it would be relatively simple matter.

I just don't get how he was simultaneously under all these investigations and had all these police reports about sexual assault and at the same time was some beloved hero down at the state house. Did nobody in the legislature ever look into his personal life?

I got a kick out of that Rhode Island state rep, Brian Coogan. For all the world he looked like he came straight of of central casting for mob boss, with the blue track suit and giant gold necklace.  

[patty1h]

Regarding the episode "Dead Man Talking" -- I know the stories about women in abusive relationships, that it's hard to leave but damn.  His second wife found out he was a RSO, he beat her, he stole her money, a cop warned her to get away, she bailed him out, he made her a prisoner and SA'd her but she stayed for quite a while.   She seemed relatively smart and capable, so I could only wonder why - seems like it was the religion thing.  No man is worth it, sis.

This story was crazy - I almost hurt myself watching Nicholas pretend to be a UK citizen and twitch out his wheelchair during that interview with Andrea Canning... it was hilarious and disturbing at the same time.  He seriously told a judge that someone had come in and put tattoos on his arm while he was hospitalized!  It showed how sick and manipulative this guy could be.

Edited April 22, 2023 by patty1h

[rlc]

Re: Dead Man Talking: George Santos would say ‘is this guy for real?’

[Mondrianyone]

So funny, especially because I kept thinking how much he looked like Santos in his legislative getup.

Maybe they could each play the other in the movies of their lives.

[Annber03]

2 hours ago, Mondrianyone said:

So funny, especially because I kept thinking how much he looked like Santos in his legislative getup.

YES! That's who he kept reminding me of, too, thank you!

[libgirl2]

11 hours ago, Annber03 said:

YES! That's who he kept reminding me of, too, thank you!

Same with me! 

[Morrigan2575]

This was crazy from start to finish.

[pdlinda]

On 4/22/2023 at 7:27 AM, libgirl2 said:

I don't think they mentioned a DNA test. 

I wondered about that because he was convicted of a sex offense so, at least in my State, he would have had to provide a DNA sample.

[Irlandesa]

31 minutes ago, pdlinda said:

I wondered about that because he was convicted of a sex offense so, at least in my State, he would have had to provide a DNA sample.

He'd probably use the same excuse he used for fingerprints.

[MsJamieDornan]

On 4/22/2023 at 11:16 AM, iMonrey said:

"Dead Man Talking." What a bizarre story. Clearly, Arthur Knight is Nicholas Alahverdian. Aside from the tattoos, the biggest giveaway would be his teeth, which are conveniently hidden behind his oxygen mask.

Another big giveaway was his abusive  personality. He attacked the doctors and nurses, he posted lies online, he was still trying to get revenge on everyone . Nothing had changed.

[Lsk02]

They had his DNA because that’s how the Utah prosecutor got involved. An assault there that had never been properly investigated was re-opened when the prosecutor saw how many old sexual assault cases had never been addressed (which I’m guessing is why the police there hated him and allegedly helped crazy Nicholas/Alexander with a smear campaign). The DNA from the Utah case matched with what they had gotten from his sex offender registration. I kept thinking Scotland must have stricter rules about testing DNA, because that would’ve solved the whole crazy thing much faster. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Lsk02

[Blissfool]

On 4/17/2023 at 10:41 AM, Irlandesa said:

I definitely think they wanted the killer found.  A family that doesn't want the killer found doesn't hound multiple police departments year-after-year or reach out to a PI.

Were they all hounding the police, or just the mom and aunts? Was Lace?

I'm very, very suspicious of Lace. However, I do think that the ex-fiance would have brought her down too, once the police caught up to him.

 

[DonnaMae]

23 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

This was crazy from start to finish.

And it's not over yet.  I think this was the weirdest case I've seen on this show.

[12catcrazy]

Re "Dead Man Talking" - I wanted to throw a shoe at the TV for most of the episode.    For one, I kept screaming "DNA Test" at the stupidity of him being in Scotland and claiming to not be the wanted guy (and considering how much he looked like Nicholas Alahverdian, it was pretty obvious that he was) and getting to drag the whole process out, and for another, that 2nd wife of his (see patty1h's post above) who he abused terribly and yet just couldn't seem to leave.    I just don't get it.  

And yeah, this guy could have been the inspiration for George Santos.  Who hasn't been accused of any sex crimes, but that is about the only good thing I can say about him.  

[LuvMyShows]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:08 PM, patty1h said:

Regarding the episode "Dead Man Talking" -- I know the stories about women in abusive relationships, that it's hard to leave but damn.  His second wife found out he was a RSO, he beat her, he stole her money, a cop warned her to get away, she bailed him out, he made her a prisoner and SA'd her but she stayed for quite a while.   She seemed relatively smart and capable, so I could only wonder why - seems like it was the religion thing.  No man is worth it, sis.

What really baffled me about her, is that she gave an example of a physically abusive thing he did starting the day after the wedding, yet when Andrea asked something about calling the police, her answer was an ongoing, generic answer, like he would take my phone.  That still doesn't explain why, when it first started and before she became enmeshed in the pattern of abuse, she didn't call when she left the house.  She never said he kept her captive, and he was still living his life and leaving the house, so she had plenty of opportunity.  She glossed over that completely.  I'm not sure how much of it was the religion, or that, as she said, she really wanted to be a wife and have a family, so she overlooked things she shouldn't have.  But this is big overlooking!

But almost more surprising to me, was that employer lady who hired him for PR.  She said that he never completed anything in the entire 4 months. Yet when he came up with that idea of being in charge of all her companies or whatever, she agreed, and even gave him her passport!  

Something they never mentioned, was looking into the adult background of the Arthur character.  It would have been fairly easy to check various agencies and corporations to see if he had held the jobs he claimed.

Listening to his sometimes British, sometimes Scottish, sometimes neither, accent would have been amusing if he weren't such a devious, deviant, devil monster who deserves to burn in hell...and if that Miranda woman is truly in on this (which I definitely think she is), she can go along with him.

[Irlandesa]

2 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

That still doesn't explain why, when it first started and before she became enmeshed in the pattern of abuse, she didn't call when she left the house.  She never said he kept her captive, and he was still living his life and leaving the house, so she had plenty of opportunity.  She glossed over that completely.  I'm not sure how much of it was the religion, or that, as she said, she really wanted to be a wife and have a family, so she overlooked things she shouldn't have.  But this is big overlooking!

Abuse rarely starts with the first punch.  If you remember her story, she spoke about how quickly they moved, and he proposed.  He was likely love-bombing her during that time. 

The love-bombing, her religion, perhaps his apologies and blaming it on her all worked to keep her controlled in that moment.  My guess is that he started to take her stuff and lock her away when she made moves to actually break the cycle.

33 minutes ago, LuvMyShows said:

But almost more surprising to me, was that employer lady who hired him for PR.  She said that he never completed anything in the entire 4 months. Yet when he came up with that idea of being in charge of all her companies or whatever, she agreed, and even gave him her passport! 

This is less understandable to me, especially because I don't think they ever met.

[Jordan Baker]

The most recent episode, "Along Came Sarah," was one of the craziest I've ever seen. This is another one of those "if this were a movie, no one would buy it" cases. It would seem too far-fetched.

How she was able to get away with all those crimes for so many years--it's really hard to fathom. I hope some of the officials who let her get away with things/chose not to investigate are feeling some remorse.

[Cissyb00]

Regarding Sarah Hartsfield any husband worked with her at Ft Hood when she was Sarah Donohue. He says she was an odd one.  When he saw the promo he was like "Holy shit, I worked with her."

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Jordan Baker said:

How she was able to get away with all those crimes for so many years--it's really hard to fathom. I hope some of the officials who let her get away with things/chose not to investigate are feeling some remorse.

It was so frustrating how they just never seemed to have quite enough evidence to nab her for so long. So many fires and deaths and other suspicious activity when she just happened to be nearby, and yet...nothing. Kinda like that Pam Hupp - I feel those two women would get along disturbingly well. 

Her daughter talking about the reason why she was upset at the cops coming to investigate the abuse claims, and how said "investigation" wound up playing out, was heartbreaking and maddening in equal measure. 

[TVbitch]

C'mon Dateline, I really wanted to see Sarah's mugshot! Other than that, I hope their very thorough report helped the prosecution. Talk about a piece of work. Her poor son seemed so beat down from it all. 

[Tachi Rocinante]

Holy crap! The dead woman's brother was Dana Kunze!!  He was an unbelievable high-diver back in the day.  He did a triple back flip from 172 feet.

[iMonrey]

On 4/29/2023 at 10:38 AM, Jordan Baker said:

The most recent episode, "Along Came Sarah," was one of the craziest I've ever seen. This is another one of those "if this were a movie, no one would buy it" cases. It would seem too far-fetched.

What cracked me up about this episode is that as they worked their way down the list of her litany of crimes, she responding in text to every one of them "I didn't do it!" Who the hell was texting her and how was she texting back? She has a cell phone in prison? "Hey, any comment on setting your grandmother's house on fire?" "I didn't do it!" "Hey, what about almost setting your ex's girlfriend's house on fire?" "I didn't do it!" "Hey, what about your fiance getting shot?" "I didn't do it!" "Poisoning your husband?" "I didn't do it!"

[Irlandesa]

39 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who the hell was texting her and how was she texting back?

Dateline had set up an interview with her but, after talking to lawyers, she changed her mind.  However, I guess they were able to submit questions to her via text. 

Dateline really did make it seem like none of the authorities wanted to put in the work to find evidence of whether or not she was setting all these fires or killing people. 

[Morrigan2575]

I had to keep pausing the episode because I was so annoyed that she kept getting away with it.

I still haven't finished but, I assume she killed her father as well as the fiancé and husband.  I'm also still uncertain if her father ever molested her or if that was a lie too (like the step father and foster father)

[pdlinda]

59 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

However, I guess they were able to submit questions to her via text. 

Yes, I agree that the prison authorities (who would have probably permitted her to have a live interview with Dateline) agreed to have her respond to prepared questions from Dateline. 

I would also presume that her LAWYER was the one who instructed her to answer the questions:  "I didn't do it." 😊

[LakeGal]

We watched this and kept talking about how she reminded us of Pam Hupp.  It is so annoying when these women keep getting away with stuff for years.  

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

What cracked me up about this episode is that as they worked their way down the list of her litany of crimes, she responding in text to every one of them "I didn't do it!" Who the hell was texting her and how was she texting back? She has a cell phone in prison? "Hey, any comment on setting your grandmother's house on fire?" "I didn't do it!" "Hey, what about almost setting your ex's girlfriend's house on fire?" "I didn't do it!" "Hey, what about your fiance getting shot?" "I didn't do it!" "Poisoning your husband?" "I didn't do it!"

Seriously, though, yeah, my mom was like, "The fact she has to constantly keep making these denials should tell us something right there. Most people have never been suspected/accused of starting even one fire, let alone multiple ones..."

[howiveaddict]

On 4/22/2023 at 5:30 PM, Mondrianyone said:

So funny, especially because I kept thinking how much he looked like Santos in his legislative getup.

Maybe they could each play the other in the movies of their lives.

Maybe him and George are the same people.  Have you ever seen them both in the same place?

 

[Tdoc72]

8 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I had to keep pausing the episode because I was so annoyed that she kept getting away with it.

I still haven't finished but, I assume she killed her father as well as the fiancé and husband.  I'm also still uncertain if her father ever molested her or if that was a lie too (like the step father and foster father)

I believed her only b/c her brother seemed to admit it. But later, she invites her raping father to live with her and her daughters. Who does that?? 

[Lsk02]

They really zoomed in on her brother’s bracelet, which had blurred bar codes and looked suspicious. I wonder what the story with his deceased wife, brother, and mother is. 

[rlc]

11 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

I believed her only b/c her brother seemed to admit it. But later, she invites her raping father to live with her and her daughters. Who does that?? 

I understood that she murdered her father, so having him live with her was part of her plan to poison him or however she did away with this one. With so many murders under her belt it’s hard to keep track.

[12catcrazy]

Re: "Along Came Sarah" - What a crazy-ass story, huh?  This woman makes Pam Hupp look like an amateur. 

Goes to show that psychos will keep doing what they do until somebody finally stops them.  God only knows what this woman's final body count really is.