Gymnastics

[Scovies]

I really don't think Gabby has earned a spot here, but I'll be more surprised if she's not on the team.

[Mittengirl]

Nothing against any of the athletes, but I am kind of hoping that Tim and and Nastia are wrong about who will be chosen.  Just because they seem so damn sure.  I like surprises, I guess.

[Chicken Wing]

No surprises here.

[topanga]

No surprises, but I'm glad Gabby made the team. Did she deserve it? I don't know, but Marta has said all along that she planned to pick Gabby for the Olympic team. If she hadn't fallen off the beam both nights, her score likely would have been in the top 5, and there wouldn't be an issue. 

Seeing all of the girls crying made me teary-eyed. 

So the alternates go to the training camp, correct? They just won't go to Rio unless someones get hurt? 

[selkie]

1 hour ago, WhitneyWhit said:

Dear Tim,

Shut up. Simone is great, she is the most dominant gymnast in the world, but not the most dominant female athlete; see Serena Williams and her seventh Wimbledon title.

Except that it took Serena three tries to win a slam this year, so I wouldn't call her most dominant. Granted tennis players compete a lot more than gymnasts do, but I tend to regard Simone and swimmer Katie Ledecky, who has never lost in major international competition and Legends 1 and !a right now in women's sport with Serena a distant third.

1 hour ago, Mittengirl said:

Why did they cut the teams from 7 to 5?

At the Olympics, there is a hard cap on the number of athletes invited to keep it somewhat of a manageable event, and there has been a gradual reduction in the number of quota spots for artistic gymnastics, both because the IOC shrunk the gymnastics allotment as a whole, and then gymnastics has carved out an increasing number of spots for group rhythmic and trampoline at the expense of the artistics.

FIG has also gradually reduced team size at World Championships because it was seen as a way of making team events more competitive so the big name countries couldn't always cherry pick event placement for their specialists, and some of the second tier programs had a shot at ending up on the podium.

While the FIG can't really do much about their Olympic quota spaces, I'd like to see them do a IAAF-style past champion bye spot where the most recent individual world champion champion on apparatus or all around was given an invitation to the next world championship that didn't count against the country's  team cap if they did not participate in the team competition.

[Minneapple]

Gabby looked like she was teetering between relief and misery.

[topanga]

4 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

Gabby looked like she was teetering between relief and misery.

Her tears looked like relief and disbelief to me. She couldn't believe she'd made the team but was happy that she did. There's no doubt in my mind that she definitely wants to be there 

[COESpiral]

I feel for all those girls.  They all look wrung out and it's only going to get worse between now and Rio. 

No quibbles with the selections, although I think if they use Gabby for beam it's because the other two girls are on their deathbeds.  I also think the 2012 team was stronger, but Simone Biles is the best gymnast ever.

[topanga]

1 minute ago, COESpiral said:

I feel for all those girls.  They all look wrung out and it's only going to get worse between now and Rio. 

No quibbles with the selections, although I think if they use Gabby for beam it's because the other two girls are on their deathbeds.  I also think the 2012 team was stronger, but Simone Biles is the best gymnast ever.

Did the team look less stressed after the 2012 trials? I can't remember, even though I was glued to the TV the same as I was tonight. 

Gabby didn't make any major mistakes on the beam at Nationals. Not sure why she was so unreliable during the trials. 

[Dots And Stripes]

Gabby's selection makes sense when considering the other options. MyKayla and Regan were stronger overall at trials but were significantly weaker on bars. Ashton was stronger on bars than Gabby, but less versatile. FWIW Gabby was third on bars at the trials.

I happy for Gabby. Seeing her interviews here and there she does seem like a relatively happy person. I think she's dealing with a huge amount of pressure very well. Returning to the Olympics is no easy task. Good for her and for Aly!

I love that Simone still talks about the Olympics like it's a dream come true. For her to dominate her sport and still have a sense of awe is very sweet. I hope she enjoys every second of this.

[Jx223]

Congrats to all of the women that made the USA Team. I look forward to watching them in Rio. I hope they do well.

Regarding Kobe being at tonight's event, I think he is just a fan of sports in general. I have seen him hang out at events like the World Cup as well. It looks like he is enjoying his retirement and being a spectator. 

[Amethyst]

Pretty much what I expected for the final decision.  Simone, Laurie, and Aly were a lock, and I figured Gabby would be there too.  I'm not too fond of Makayla, but I didn't think Maggie would make it, either.  Same with Ashton.  Absolutely glorious on the uneven bars, but Madison's floor routine was second to none.  All in all, I can't fault the final decision.

I feel bad for Maggie, she's one of the few names I recognize that didn't make the team at all.  

Laurie is such a delight.  Same with Simone, you can tell they're happy to be there.  Glad Gabby made it.  She was definitely off the past two weeks, but she was on her game tonight.  Even with her falling off the beam, she got right back up, which speaks volumes from the way it went on Friday.  Then, she kinda hung around for a few seconds and you could tell she was feeling down.  The beam is the devil, honestly.  Seeing the wolf pose always gives me the shakes, and that weird flip seems tailor made to make them stumble.  Even Simone fell off tonight.

[choclatechip45]

Spoiler

So the alternates go to the training camp, correct? They just won't go to Rio unless someones get hurt? 

I believe the alternates go to Rio and will train with gymnasts until podium. For 2008 the alternates were in Japan and in 2012 I think they were in Birmingham UK. I imagine they are going to Rio because there might not be a lot of gyms. I listened to the Gymcastic interview with USA team doctor unless someone will put up a 0 on the event they are needed for in Team Finals and there is enough time that is the only way an alternate will be used. Apparently when they replaced Morgan White in 2000. They made her leave the Olympic Village and the IOC cut up her credentials right in front of her. For whatever reason the IOC does not recgonize olympic gymnasts if they are replaced by an alternate.  If anyone is interested the interview is here  http://gymcastic.com/63-doctor-larry-nassar/

Edited July 11, 2016 by choclatechip45

[azshadowwalker]

10 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I'm torn on the Gabby smiling "issue." On the one hand, this is a judged sport so I get the focus on presentation. On the other hand, I can't help but shake the feeling that a little bit of the old trope of telling women to smile more is coming into the narrative.

Well, maybe in regards to US gymnasts. The US media and public always hammered on Eastern European gymnasts for the same thing.

When it comes to Ragan Smith, I just find myself annoyed. I don't care about her appearance. I just hate that cutesy floor routine with a passion.

Edited July 11, 2016 by azshadowwalker

[Misslindsey]

I really like Nastia as a commentator. I just wish Tim and Al would shut up more.

2 minutes ago, Amethyst said:

Laurie is such a delight.  Same with Simone, you can tell they're happy to be there.  Glad Gabby made it.  She was definitely off the past two weeks, but she was on her game tonight.  Even with her falling off the beam, she got right back up, which speaks volumes from the way it went on Friday.  Then, she kinda hung around for a few seconds and you could tell she was feeling down.  The beam is the devil, honestly.  Seeing the wolf pose always gives me the shakes, and that weird flip seems tailor made to make them stumble.  Even Simone fell off tonight.

I am pleased with the team. Though Tim and Al have basically declared Team USA as winners of the team gold and Simone winning the rest of the golds. I am sure Simone will rack up gold medals in swimming, track and field, basketball, and many other sports because she is that awesome. I like Simone and it isn't her fault they are going a bit overboard with it all, but it can be a bit much when listening to it. Some of the predictions are probably accurate like Simone winning a lot of hardware, but I hate when they declare it when the olympics have not even started. There were a lot of mistakes in both nights of trails, so I do think anything can happen. 

Is it called a wolf turn that many of the girls do on beam? I really hate that move. For some reason I just do not like the look of it.

The other older woman that is on the selection committee, I forgot her name, but she looks like Marta's double.

[choclatechip45]

Apparently it came down to Gabby and Ashton for the fifth spot.

Edited July 11, 2016 by choclatechip45

[Amethyst]

5 minutes ago, Misslindsey said:

Is it called a wolf turn that many of the girls do on beam? I really hate that move. For some reason I just do not like the look of it.

Yeah, it's that move when they spin while balancing on one foot.  Sometimes they do it on the floor routine as well.  But I can't imagine how hard it is to keep your center of gravity while doing that on the beam.

One of the male commenters keeps mixing up Gabby and Simone's names and it's really getting on my nerves.  Happened last week, too.  Not sure which one it was.

Not crazy about the "US is going to win it all" stuff from the commenters, either.  It's nice to be confident, but talk about raising the pressure, especially on Simone.  I'm wondering if all that got to Gabby, too.  She was the Olympic sweetheart four years ago, and that's difficult to live up to.

[azshadowwalker]

1 hour ago, Misslindsey said:

 

Is it called a wolf turn that many of the girls do on beam? I really hate that move. For some reason I just do not like the look of it.

I was just coming to comment on it. Hate it on both beam and floor, as well as the Mitchell turn with the leg in front. I have never liked gymnasts' turns. They are usually off balance, especially on floor. But this one looks awkward on any apparatus, and isn't even appealing when someone does it "well". But all the U.S. gymnasts do it, one carbon copy after another. Boring and unattractive. It's not the only E rated spin, ffs.

When Simone Biles has been the best in her sport for decades, like Serena, we can talk about dominance. As for trying to dismiss Serena for only winning one major so far this year (!), tennis is not a sport where one does the same thing on the same surfaces over and over, competing only with a score. A gymnast can never come near the dominance of a top tennis player, especially Serena Williams...and I am not even a Serena fan.

Edited July 11, 2016 by azshadowwalker

[Steph619]

Congratulations to Simone, Laurie, Aly, Gabby, and Madison for being the five chosen to represent the USA women's gymnastics team at the Olympics! 

If at the beginning of the road to Rio, you would've told me that Aly and Gabby would be the ones coming back from the Fierce Five for a second time to the Olympics, I would've thought you were lying. It's not that I didn't want them to come back, I just expected McKayla and Kyla to be the ones to go instead. Kudos to them for making it to the Olympics again as it is a difficult thing to do.

I wish this team all the best in Rio and I hope they win it all so Tim Daggett, please do me a favor and shut up about the team winning gold and Simone winning gold in everything. He's like a jinx. Everytime he says a gymnast won't fall or something to that effect, she does! 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Steph619

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Amethyst said:

Yeah, it's that move when they spin while balancing on one foot.  Sometimes they do it on the floor routine as well.  But I can't imagine how hard it is to keep your center of gravity while doing that on the beam.

One of the male commenters keeps mixing up Gabby and Simone's names and it's really getting on my nerves.  Happened last week, too.  Not sure which one it was.

Not crazy about the "US is going to win it all" stuff from the commenters, either.  It's nice to be confident, but talk about raising the pressure, especially on Simone.  I'm wondering if all that got to Gabby, too.  She was the Olympic sweetheart four years ago, and that's difficult to live up to.

Neither am I. I'm all for confident and I do think their the best team that was picked but declaring them winners makes me nervous.  Watching Simone and Gabby both fall makes me even more nervous. I know they'll probably do great but they've got enough pressure without the commenters saying that stuff.

[cesstar]

4 minutes ago, Steph619 said:

If at the beginning of the road to Rio, you would've told me that Aly and Gabby would be the ones coming back from the Fierce Five for a second time to the Olympics, I would've thought you were lying. It's not that I didn't want them to come back, I just expected McKayla and Kyla to be the ones to go instead. Kudos to them for making it to the Olympics again as it is a difficult thing to do.

So strange to think back to 4 years ago! I agree, I thought Kyla would make it again and perhaps if she had been luckier with her growth spurts then she might have made it. And Maroney was so fired up to return until injuries/health issues intervened. It is a fabulous achievement for Gabby and Aly to make another team, particularly in such a stacked program.

My heart broke tonight for Maggie Nichols, I was really pulling for her to grab an alternate spot, but she just wasn't quite ready. You need healthy alternates!

Skinner had the meet of her life. I don't think she has shown enough consistency over the past 12 months to get a team position, and Nationals two weeks ago was disasterous but she pulled it out when it mattered to grab that alternate position.  

Really happy for Gabby, she seemed so stressed - even her eye was twitching all night! Poor girl. She had a rough go on beam but with a line-up of Biles, Hernandez and Raisman, she won't be needed there anyway. I still think she'll be used for bars and vault in team finals. 

Love Laurie although the scoring was a bit out of control for her all weekend. She won't get those scores on vault and bars in Rio. But she is a legitimate contender for beam gold and will probably battle it out for an AA medal. I think she'll be a star, charisma oozes out of her!

[SophiaD]

I'm thrilled for Laurie Hernandez.  I'm sad for Ashton Locklear.  She looked so devastated.  I almost liked it better when the sport turned over after every Olympic games, although I can see why they selected the team they did.

This is almost harder than watching them compete in the Olympics!

[choclatechip45]

Normally, I would feel bad for Skinner, but after her comments on social media this past winter that were anti-gay and using the N-word. I don't feel so bad for her. Considering how defensive she was after people called her out on it. It was pretty much confirmed that Utah Gymnastics  and USA Gymnastics told her to delete them and had a talk with her. I am all for second chances, but her reaction rubbed me the wrong way.

[Harry24]

Normally, I would feel bad for Skinner, but after her comments on social media this past winter that were anti-gay and using the N-word.

Oh, ew.  For real?

Totally agree about that wolf spin.  If they could do it without waving their arms around as though they were about to fall over it would look better, but no matter how difficult it looks terrible (sort of like the infamous Besti Squat in figure skating - although that's not that difficult.)

I also thought there was some charming choreography in the floor routines, far more than in recent years.  I actually liked the Addams Family routine and thought she just nailed it.  I also liked Biles' and Hernandez's routines.  I think Raisman has improved tremendously in her dance quality and overall grace since 2012.  I wonder how much a factor doing Dancing with the Stars was?

I also think the issue with Gabby's expression was not so much the usual woman-have-to-smile bs but more that she looked so unhappy (not concentrated and serious).

[Minneapple]

30 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

Normally, I would feel bad for Skinner, but after her comments on social media this past winter that were anti-gay and using the N-word. I don't feel so bad for her. Considering how defensive she was after people called her out on it. It was pretty much confirmed that Utah Gymnastics  and USA Gymnastics told her to delete them and had a talk with her. I am all for second chances, but her reaction rubbed me the wrong way.

She did what now? Yikes.

Gabby was just so happy and sunny four years ago, which is why I noted her expression tonight.  I don't think the gymnasts need to smile more. In fact it looks really weird to me when they've just fallen on their ass and still have a smile plastered on, then lose the smile the minute they walk off.

[CeeBeeGee]

13 hours ago, Dots And Stripes said:

I'm torn on the Gabby smiling "issue." On the one hand, this is a judged sport so I get the focus on presentation. On the other hand, I can't help but shake the feeling that a little bit of the old trope of telling women to smile more is coming into the narrative. Serious question but are male gymnasts expected to smile? I think the Gabby situation is complicated by the fact that we are comparing the 16 year old to the 20 year old and she had a disappointing night on Friday. For me, if Gabby were to go out there and hit all of her routines without smiling I'd be all for it. As long as her routines are on point I'm fine with whatever expression she has on. Unfortunately, Friday was not her best.

NBC also needs to cool it with following gymnasts after a bad routine. Once we saw tears in Ashton's eyes after her fall off the beam that was enough. We get that she's heartbroken so no need to keep the camera focused on her that long. Kudos for her to keeping it together as well as she did.

HATED the intrusive cameras after someone had fallen. Hated it when my girl Ashton fell two days ago, hated it when they stalked Gabby. 

12 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

For me, that has nothing to do with it. Many female gymnasts -- including Aly, now that I think of it -- don't smile much during their routines or otherwise. I don't think anything of it. It stands out with Gabby now because, one, she was known for her huge, wide smile before and there's not even a hint of a grin at all anymore, and also, she just looks unhappy. The others don't smile but they don't look like they're unhappy. Gabby looks unhappy.

Before 2012 Gabby was known as a bit of a headcase, Very talented but nervy. Then in '12 her rise to the top happened so quickly--she peaked ridiculously soon, I think it took everyone by surprise--that I almost think Gabby didn't have time to think about it. She just kind of enjoyed being the new kid who wasn't the favorite who was expected to win (the way Jordyn Wieber was) and that really worked for her--she came from behind and won AA gold. Now it's four years later and Gabby is The Star.  I fully agree that women gymnasts should not have to "smile!!!!" the way we're always demanding women do on the street and everywhere else--that is a huge pet peeve of mine, that women must always be decorative. I don't care if a woman athlete smiles as she's doing her routine. But she seems a bit grim everywhere else as well. I think it's a case of "we know Gabby, this doesn't seem like her."

6 hours ago, WhitneyWhit said:

Dear Tim,

Shut up. Simone is great, she is the most dominant gymnast in the world, but not the most dominant female athlete; see Serena Williams and her seventh Wimbledon title.

Simone hasn't lost in 3 years, in a sport whose entire careers are often considerably shorter than that. Serena is now one of the greatest tennis players of all time (hasn't passed Steffi's overall numbers yet but she will--can't wait to see her at the US Open this year!) but right now she is not as dominant in her own sport as SImone is. What Simone has done in gymnastics is unheard of. Even Nadia didn't go three years without losing.

5 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

Why did they cut the teams from 7 to 5?

Because Bruno Grandi hates the sport of gymnastics and is trying to destroy it. I kid....but not really. He is awful.

I actually kind of liked Ragan's floor set--I thought it was cute without being Geza Posar-levels of obnoxious (see Kim Zmeskal's choreography in the '90s--her tumbling was amazing, whyyyyyy give her that cutesy shit?).

If they're not going to use Gabby on beam, and she won't throw her Amanar, then Ashton should've gotten Gabby's spot.

[COESpiral]

2 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

Normally, I would feel bad for Skinner, but after her comments on social media this past winter that were anti-gay and using the N-word. I don't feel so bad for her. Considering how defensive she was after people called her out on it. It was pretty much confirmed that Utah Gymnastics  and USA Gymnastics told her to delete them and had a talk with her. I am all for second chances, but her reaction rubbed me the wrong way.

Someone else is reporting that Skinner retweeted a comment about how she deserved the 5th spot over Gabby. The passive-aggressive drama starts now!  This is going to make camp at The Ranch such fun. 

[cesstar]

22 minutes ago, COESpiral said:

Someone else is reporting that Skinner retweeted a comment about how she deserved the 5th spot over Gabby. The passive-aggressive drama starts now!  This is going to make camp at The Ranch such fun.

Lol. Do the alternates go to the Ranch too? I guess that makes sense.... yeah, that could be awkward!

I still think Skinner is lucky to have got an alternate position. She was 10th AA at Nationals, held up by a strong vault but ranked 17th in UB and 18th in BB. She had a great meet here but on balance I think alternate is a fair result for her.

2 hours ago, choclatechip45 said:

Normally, I would feel bad for Skinner, but after her comments on social media this past winter that were anti-gay and using the N-word. I don't feel so bad for her.

I just read about those, that's pretty ordinary.

I also made the mistake of reading some of the twitter response about the team announcement and the Gabby hate/backlash is pretty strong. People wishing she'd get injured, all sorts of crazies coming out of the woodwork. If she has seen only a small percentage of that vitriol I worry about her mental health. Hopefully the girls will be shielded from that kind of negativity at the Ranch.

LOVE that Ashton got an alternate position - I read that she intends to continue elite next year, hopefully a gold medal at world championships is in her future.

[robroy]

I think Douglas got a ton of help with favorable scoring through Nationals and Trials. That beam has been jittery the whole time, they seemed to constantly miss short handstands & missed connections on bars and I'm still wondering how she was pulling off her FX scores in relation to what others competed. To be honest I think Maggie is probably the one who got hosed. Supposedly Marta Karyoli instructed her to do an easier vault which held down her AA score and Vt placement. I think with another month's time she would be right where we need her and capable of being inserted in all 4 lineups. No way Gabby should have been only 2 tenths less on FX.

While I feel poorly for Skinner I understand how her strengths/weaknesses were difficult to plug in. With Kocian/Locklear necessary for an UB score and neither that great on beam and all the bubble girls putting up similar floor scores we had a funky scenario where the #4 girl actually became a bit of a specialist as well. Eveyone is close enough on floor that it came down to whether they needed a UB worker more than another vaulter. My only gripe is as I said above- Douglas was being held up on UB and I think they were slightly stingy with Skinner on VT.

As much as that supposed tweet from Skinner is no bueno for me Team Douglas has also been shady as hell the last couple of years.

The real competition now becomes who makes it out of deathcamp in one piece. I cannot think of another national team that routinely mangles its athletes so thoroughly in the lead up to championships.  

[filmfan2480]

Happy for the Team that was chosen. Gabby has been shaky, but she is the reigning Olympic AA champion, she won Silver in the AA at last year's Worlds, and she will undoubtedly get stronger & stronger over the next 3 weeks. 

Devastated that Maggie Nichols wasn't even chosen as an alternate. I suppose it's because because her: Vault is very good, not great; Bars is so-so; Beam is very good, but not overly reliable (Biles/Raisman/Hernandez better); and Floor is wonderful (but they already have a strong Biles/Raisman/Hernandez there). She doesn't really sub-in well for any of them if theyneed her. Whereas, Skinner would be great on vault, Locklear would be amazing on Bars, Ragan Smith would be great on Beam, and Gabby would be already there for a steady FX if needed. Still ... bummed!!! Come on gymnastics, go back to 7 person teams! 

Here's how I'd compete the girls for Rio if it were up to me:

Team Preliminaries:

Biles - last on Vault, 2nd on Bars, last on Beam, last on FX
Raisman - Vault, 1st on Bars to give her a chance for the AA, Beam, FX
Hernandez - sit out Vault, Bars, Beam, FX (I think she could qualify for EF on Beam)
Gabby - Vault (I truly think she'd score higher than Hernandez on the DTY, and especially if the Amanar is back), Bars, Beam, FX (this would also give her a crack at the AA - she's a solid, if unspectacular AA-er these days)
Kocian - last on Bars

This gives Biles, Raisman (crumby Bars notwithstanding), & Gabby a shot at the AA. Hernandez has a real shot for Beam finals if she hits. And Kocian for Bars, obviously.

Team Finals:

Biles - last on Vault, skip Bars, last on Beam, last on FX
Raisman - Vault, Beam, FX (no Bars)
Hernandez - 1st on Bars, Beam, FX (no Vault)
Gabby - 1st on Vault, Bars (no Beam or FX)
Kocian - last on Bars

Different story here. Sit Biles out of Bars, sub-in Hernandez as her 3rd event for the night. Biles might score a tiny bit higher, but she needs the rest and Hernandez scores relatively well.

Well, that's how I'd do it as of right now.

[choclatechip45]

6 hours ago, Minneapple said:

She did what now? Yikes.

Gabby was just so happy and sunny four years ago, which is why I noted her expression tonight.  I don't think the gymnasts need to smile more. In fact it looks really weird to me when they've just fallen on their ass and still have a smile plastered on, then lose the smile the minute they walk off.

She tweeted a text conversation between her and her friend where her friend uses the N-word and when she was criticized by people on social media she saw nothing wrong in what she did. She had also tweeted some anti-gay stuff earlier.

Here is a good article that was published in 2015 about Gabby's coaching change. Baiscally she ended up at Buckeye Gymnastics because most gyms rejected her. http://espn.go.com/espnw/athletes-life/article/11973311/how-gabby-douglas-pull-one-most-improbable-comebacks-ever

I think Laurie and Gabby will do the AA.

Quote

Biles - last on Vault, 2nd on Bars, last on Beam, last on FX

Did not realize this was for prelims I agree with this line up for Simone!

Edited July 11, 2016 by choclatechip45

[qtpye]

On 7/9/2016 at 10:21 AM, Misslindsey said:

 

I think Aly seems like a great person and pretty consistent gymnastic wise, but I have never warmed up to her style of gymnastics. I have no idea why.

I actually do not mind the high ponytail/topknot. I am not a fan of the bows or scrunchies. I actually hate some of the girls make-up more. I do not mind a bit of make-up (They are on television after all), but some of the eye make-up is a bit much for me. I could not tell for sure, but in some shots I thought Simone was wearing fake eyelashes.

It is crazy when you compare that to the make up free fresh faces of the magnificent seven from Atlanta.  I hate that woman athletes get so much crap for their appearance, when it should just be about their abilities. 

8 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

I really like Nastia as a commentator. I just wish Tim and Al would shut up more.

I am pleased with the team. Though Tim and Al have basically declared Team USA as winners of the team gold and Simone winning the rest of the golds. I am sure Simone will rack up gold medals in swimming, track and field, basketball, and many other sports because she is that awesome. I like Simone and it isn't her fault they are going a bit overboard with it all, but it can be a bit much when listening to it. Some of the predictions are probably accurate like Simone winning a lot of hardware, but I hate when they declare it when the olympics have not even started. There were a lot of mistakes in both nights of trails, so I do think anything can happen. 

Is it called a wolf turn that many of the girls do on beam? I really hate that move. For some reason I just do not like the look of it.

The other older woman that is on the selection committee, I forgot her name, but she looks like Marta's double.

I hate that move, it is just ugly and clumsy looking.  It also makes the girl squat and stand up on the beam, which probably takes a little away from the "zone" that you have to be in to do a great balance beam routine.

8 hours ago, Amethyst said:

Yeah, it's that move when they spin while balancing on one foot.  Sometimes they do it on the floor routine as well.  But I can't imagine how hard it is to keep your center of gravity while doing that on the beam.

One of the male commenters keeps mixing up Gabby and Simone's names and it's really getting on my nerves.  Happened last week, too.  Not sure which one it was.

Not crazy about the "US is going to win it all" stuff from the commenters, either.  It's nice to be confident, but talk about raising the pressure, especially on Simone.  I'm wondering if all that got to Gabby, too.  She was the Olympic sweetheart four years ago, and that's difficult to live up to.

Quote

I like Simone, but the commentators/media act like all she has to do in Rio is show up and she will get all the medals. They need to ease up a bit. I really like Simone, but I wish there was a bit more competition for her to make it a bit more interesting.

Word to all the bold parts. I hate the two males announcers and need them to stop saying "it's a lock for the gold".  It just sets people up to fail, particularly in a sport like gymnastics, where anyone can have an off night.

Someone needs to slap that horrible old man every times he confuses Gabby with Simone.  THEY ARE NOT THE SAME PERSON.  If you can not get the names right then it's time to retire.  It's not like any of his other commentary is particularly insightful.  There is better commentary on this board and that guy is paid big bucks to be a clueless idiot.

[selkie]

I remember a few people being a little grumbly about how Nastia didn't smile much during competition, but you could still always tell how very much she wanted to go out there and show the world what she could do. (And, hey, Russian family, so the reserve can be somewhat for cultural reasons.)  Gabby just doesn't seem to have the same sort of hunger his year.

[choclatechip45]

9 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I was talking with my mother and we are starting to believe that winning the AA Gold at the worlds before an Olympics is the kiss of death. I went back to the 70s (where modern gymnastics comes in) and, as far as I can tell, no one has ever won the AA gold and then gone on to win the Olympic gold the following year. You could argue that age limits, injuries, ect. kept the eventual Olympic gold medal winner out of contention the year before, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's never been done in our modern times. 

I also don't feel we are a "lock" to win anything. That's a bad mindset to have because you never know who's going to show up and step up. 

 

9 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I was talking with my mother and we are starting to believe that winning the AA Gold at the worlds before an Olympics is the kiss of death. I went back to the 70s (where modern gymnastics comes in) and, as far as I can tell, no one has ever won the AA gold and then gone on to win the Olympic gold the following year. You could argue that age limits, injuries, ect. kept the eventual Olympic gold medal winner out of contention the year before, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's never been done in our modern times. 

I also don't feel we are a "lock" to win anything. That's a bad mindset to have because you never know who's going to show up and step up. 

 

9 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

I was talking with my mother and we are starting to believe that winning the AA Gold at the worlds before an Olympics is the kiss of death. I went back to the 70s (where modern gymnastics comes in) and, as far as I can tell, no one has ever won the AA gold and then gone on to win the Olympic gold the following year. You could argue that age limits, injuries, ect. kept the eventual Olympic gold medal winner out of contention the year before, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's never been done in our modern times. 

I also don't feel we are a "lock" to win anything. That's a bad mindset to have because you never know who's going to show up and step up. 

I believe Lilia won the gold in 95 and went on to win in 96. 

The thing is Simone's D scores are so high for the all around I don't see how without four falls she does not win. Even with one fall she won by 2 points last night. I am more confident than I was in 2012 about the US winning gold. I don't think we are a lock for god on event finals. I do think we have a chance to medal on everything besides Uneven bars. I don't think Madison's scores will be competitive with some of the girls who have 16.9 start values. Also Martha said after the meet she does not want Gabby doing the amanar at the Olympics. Honestly I don't think she ever had it.

[Mrs. P.]

So glad Kocian made the team.  She is glorious to watch on the Uneven Bars.

As for Tim Daggett - I cringed every time he declared Biles the greatest gymnast of all time, with Nastia sitting right there. He could have at least acknowledged how great she had been back in the day.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Mrs. P.

[Misslindsey]

I could have done without the shot of Bela Karolyi awkwardly hugging Kim Zmeskal and Ragan Smith from the stands. I know Kim was one of his former students, but I cannot stand the guy. The hugging would have been fine, but then it looked like he was petting her head.

I do think Gabby wants to be there. I do not think she looks like she does not just because she isn't smiling. She is in a different position this time around than the last olympics, so I am cool with her not smiling though I never minded when Nastia or anyone else did not smile either.

3 minutes ago, choclatechip45 said:

The thing is Simone's D scores are so high for the all around I don't see how without four falls she does not win. Even with one fall she won by 2 points last night. I am more confident than I was in 2012 about the US winning gold. I don't think we are a lock for god on event finals. I do think we have a chance to medal on everything besides Uneven bars. I don't think Madison's scores will be competitive with some of the girls who have 16.9 start values. Also Martha said after the meet she does not want Gabby doing the amanar at the Olympics. Honestly I don't think she ever had it.

I agree Simone would have to have a crazy disastrous day to not win the all around because of her start values, but I still hate the commentators crowning her the champion when the olympics have not even begun. I do not see Simone medaling on all the events either. I think it is possible for her to medal on most of them, but not all. I dislike the commentators claiming the US has the team gold all sewn up. I think most of them were a bit off during one or both of the trail nights, so if that happens again I would be worried about gold.

Quote

As for Tim Daggett - I cringed every time he declared Biles the greatest gymnast of all time, with Nastia sitting right there. He could have at least acknowledged how great she had been back in the day.

I really like Simone, but I hate the declaration of the best gymnast ever. I hated when Al kept acting like Nastia went to a second olympics and she was like "Uh that did not happen for me," or something similar.

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

I could have done without the shot of Bela Karolyi awkwardly hugging Kim Zmeskal and Ragan Smith from the stands. I know Kim was one of his former students, but I cannot stand the guy. The hugging would have been fine, but then it looked like he was petting her head.

I wasn't sure what to be more weirded out by: Bela patting Kim on the head like she's his prized pet, or his increasingly on-point transformation into Wilford Brimley.

[Jillibean]

Quote

Team Finals:

Biles - last on Vault, skip Bars, last on Beam, last on FX
Raisman - Vault, Beam, FX (no Bars)
Hernandez - 1st on Bars, Beam, FX (no Vault)
Gabby - 1st on Vault, Bars (no Beam or FX)
Kocian - last on Bars

I'm not really well-versed in the rules--can you sub in someone in team finals who was't used on that event in qualifying?

The scoring from this event seemed very different for certain events than the Nationals scoring. Laurie's floor score on day one of Trials was way higher than her score either day of Nationals, whereas Aly (even factoring in her out of bounds step on day 2) was much lower on both days than at Nationals. Aly's vault was also scored higher at Nationals than at Trials, and Laurie's bars were significantly higher at Trials than at Nationals. I don't envy the people whose job it is to look at all that inconsistent scoring and decide whether to put Aly or Laurie forward for the AA. Laurie is clearly much stronger on bars and could feasibly score a full point higher than Aly--but at Nationals, Aly scored almost a full point higher than Laurie on floor. I'm also guessing that there was a bit of score inflation happening at Trials and that the marks Laurie got at Nationals might be more consistent with international scoring. It's a shame that they both can't be put in the running. Given that they already need to put someone who is weaker on bars (Simone) in for qualifying to get her to the AA, I would give the advantage to Laurie. As for vault, Gabby has the potential to score higher than Laurie, but the actual number suggest she's not actually doing that. It'll probably come down to who has hit most consistently in the couple of training weeks leading into the Olympics for that vault team final spot. 

I can see the Ragan Smith floor exercise both ways--on one hand, it seems clever to choreograph around her appearance of being cute. On the other hand, there's something disturbing about it when you remember that this is in fact a sixteen year-old girl you've given this infantilizing routine to, no matter how young she might look. I personally was cringing each time at the move right in the beginning where she bounces her butt once to the signature Addams family snaps--both because it skeeves me out and because you'd think you'd at least have her do it twice to emphasize those beats. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Jillibean

[Chicken Wing]

I was glad to see Ragan do her Addams Family routine again, only because I honestly thought I dreamt that whole thing when I woke up Saturday morning.

[fireice13]

I'm wondering who they're going to put up for the all-around other than Simone. If both Gabby and Madison do qualifying for bars then only one other person could go up for the all-around. I think both Aly and Laurie have proven that they have a shot and should be given a chance to compete in the all-around. Could Gabby just be used for the bar finals and nothing else, not even qualifying for bars?

[pivot]

Thrilled Gabby made the team. She has been much more consistent than Aly, Ashton or Skinner over the past year until her falls on beam at Trials. Skinner fell 3 times at Nationals after all.

And for as much grief as Tim was giving Gabby for changing coaches mid-trials, she looked so much happier on night two joking and laughing with her coach. I think Kitta was a bad fit for Gabby and she seems to click so much better with Christian. 

As for Ashton making it over Gabby, that makes no sense IMO. Ashton only trains two events so can't sub into vault or floor if there is an injury unlike Gabby. And Ashton is a disaster on beam. She's fallen or screwed it up so many times over the past couple of years (whereas Gabby has been solid on beam up until Nationals). And there isn't going to be a huge scoring difference between Gabby and Ashton on UB internationally. 

Man, were Aly's scores inflated last night. She's getting nowhere near those #s at the Olympics. She also probably lost her chance to do AA at the Olympics with Laurie beating her at Trials quite easily. That means Simone and Laurie are for sure doing AA in prelims and with Aly being awful on UB, she probably is going to have to sit out UB and let Maddie and Gabby do UB instead. That means Gabby is likely going to be the 3rd AA in prelims. Bummed for Aly but with this team make-up, it doesn't make any sense to use her on AA.

[Misslindsey]

16 minutes ago, pivot said:

And for as much grief as Tim was giving Gabby for changing coaches mid-trials, she looked so much happier on night two joking and laughing with her coach. I think Kitta was a bad fit for Gabby and she seems to click so much better with Christian. 

 

I could not get that worked up about Gabby's coaching change when it is just the assistant coach that she changed to. I would have thought she changed gyms or something with the way Al and Tim were going on about it. I mean it is strange, but Gabby was working with both Kitta and Christian, so her sticking with just Christian did not seem like that big of deal.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

The other older woman that is on the selection committee, I forgot her name, but she looks like Marta's double.

She is a former Russian coach whose students included the sublime Oksana Omielianchuk ('85 champion w/ Elena Shushunova)

Quote

I don't think we are a lock either. They tend to spread the wealth in Olympic years and you end up with someone no one has heard of winning the gold on some events.

And you never know what Chinese 11-year-old will show up and steal the show.  

[choclatechip45]

34 minutes ago, fireice13 said:

I'm wondering who they're going to put up for the all-around other than Simone. If both Gabby and Madison do qualifying for bars then only one other person could go up for the all-around. I think both Aly and Laurie have proven that they have a shot and should be given a chance to compete in the all-around. Could Gabby just be used for the bar finals and nothing else, not even qualifying for bars?

Martha won't do that to Gabby. Even though Gabby is mentally stronger than 2012 she is not going to risk Gabby's confidence on bars in the team final (which I think would happen).  Martha only cares about team and all around gold and since Gabby won both that's why she gets the benefit of the doubt unlike other gymnasts (Maggie 2015 worlds). If Nastia had hit in 2012 she would have been on the team for the same reason. Martha did says Gabby needs to realize she won't defend her title. I do wonder if that means she needs to realize Simone is going win or someone like Laurie might qualify ahead of her or she won't be doing beam In the prelims.

Edited July 11, 2016 by choclatechip45

[Shangrilala]

Man, Al was a total douchecanoe last night when they announced the alternates.  His whole "it's nice that they are showing the alternates, but they don't matter at all" bit was annoying.  Can you let those 3 girls have 2 minutes of glory before declaring them pointless?  

Gabby seemed more alive last night. I don't think my issue is with her smiling.  Rather, it seemed like she was just going through the motions, not really there, etc.  I don't need her to smile, she's not a 7 year old on the monkey bars, but night one she seemed outright miserable.  That said, I can't stand her floor routine.  But I blame bad choreography and music for that, not Gabby.  

So this is Marta's last olympics.  Hasn't she tried to retire a few times now?  I seem to remember that the Karolyi's retired after the 96 games, and USA gymnastics fell apart and they pulled them back in to get the sport into shape.  I remember Al doing his dramatic talk on that way back when - "After 1996, USA Gymnastics was a disaster.  And so they pulled the Karolyi's out of retirement.  Now it is up to them to fix it.  We are at the Olympics, there is no more time.  Can they do it?  We find out right now.  Welcome to Sydney Australia."  Or some such thing.  The 2000 Olympics were still not great, and after that was when they started the trainings at the ranch, etc.  Is that right?  And I thought I remembered them trying to step back one other time.  Anyway...who will step up and take her place?  Has she been grooming her successor as national team coordinator?  

[CeeBeeGee]

47 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

She is a former Russian coach whose students included the sublime Oksana Omielianchuk ('85 champion w/ Elena Shushunova)

Oksana Omelianchik!!!!! LOVE HER. Whenever I want to turn on my friends to the beauty of gymnastics, I show them Oksana's Birdie routine.

3 minutes ago, Shangrilala said:

Gabby seemed more alive last night. I don't think my issue is with her smiling.  Rather, it seemed like she was just going through the motions, not really there, etc.  I don't need her to smile, she's not a 7 year old on the monkey bars, but night one she seemed outright miserable.  That said, I can't stand her floor routine.  But I blame bad choreography and music for that, not Gabby.  

So this is Marta's last olympics.  Hasn't she tried to retire a few times now?  I seem to remember that the Karolyi's retired after the 96 games, and USA gymnastics fell apart and they pulled them back in to get the sport into shape.  I remember Al doing his dramatic talk on that way back when - "After 1996, USA Gymnastics was a disaster.  And so they pulled the Karolyi's out of retirement.  Now it is up to them to fix it.  We are at the Olympics, there is no more time.  Can they do it?  We find out right now.  Welcome to Sydney Australia."  Or some such thing.  The 2000 Olympics were still not great, and after that was when they started the trainings at the ranch, etc.  Is that right?  And I thought I remembered them trying to step back one other time.  Anyway...who will step up and take her place?  Has she been grooming her successor as national team coordinator?  

I believe Rhonda Faehn (alternate in '88 and well-known NCAA coach--she also trained as an elite under Bela) is her successor, although I'm not sure how official that is.

Actually I prefer Gabby's current floor set to her one in London. At least she's learned to dance!

[choclatechip45]

1 hour ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Oksana Omelianchik!!!!! LOVE HER. Whenever I want to turn on my friends to the beauty of gymnastics, I show them Oksana's Birdie routine.

I believe Rhonda Faehn (alternate in '88 and well-known NCAA coach--she also trained as an elite under Bela) is her successor, although I'm not sure how official that is.

Actually I prefer Gabby's current floor set to her one in London. At least she's learned to dance!

I have heard Valeri's name as well since he is in charge of the developmental programs.

[ketchuplover]

Looks like deductions are scored equally regardless of difficulty-thus less impactfull the higher the potential score.  I think it would be fairer if deductions were a percentages of the potential score.  So there!

[CousinOliver]

I like the team, even the Gabby choice.  I like Madison over Ashton.  I'm glad they went that way.  I like Marta well enough, and think she's good for USA Gymnastics, in terms of wins.  No complaints about any of it.  

But, like everyone else, I think something is off with Gabby.  My 2 cents:

- Coaching issues, whatever they may be

- The blasted reality show!  I know she needs to make hay, but decide if you want a medal or if you want fast money.  No shame in the second, but it is going to affect her rest, especially.  Reality shows take time.  

- I think it's really weighing on her that she will not repeat as AA and that, if there is any fairness, she won't even get a chance.  (I'm hoping for Laurie as our third AA contender, but I'm afraid Marta will give it to Aly, who is certainly competent, but not as enjoyable to watch, IMO.  I hope they keep the cameras entirely off Aly's family, too.)  It's entirely possible that Gabby will medal by only contributing on one event.  That's GOT to be a big letdown after 2012 and the AA silver last year at Worlds. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by CousinOliver

[CousinOliver]

I should have been clearer.  I did mean Marta wouldn't use Laurie in all four events, giving Simone, Gabby, and Aly all 4 so they could contend.

I assumed that she'd have Gabby try to qualify in the AA no matter what, and that a third qualifying spot would be given to either Aly or Laurie.  Ideally, it would be Simone, Aly, and Laurie given a chance at the AA.

Second edit: Also read original post and I realized I said second when I meant third.  I guess that two country rule bears heavy on my mind, too.  Edited that post too. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by CousinOliver
Much Clarification