S05.E05: The Way Ahead

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Faced with the fallout of an intercepted call with Camilla and the consequent kickback to his marriage, Prince Charles must navigate a scandal.

Dropping on Wednesday, November 9, 2022.

[Roseanna]

In the beginning we saw Charles pitying himself, but the end was surprising: first Anne said that she had doubted Charles and believed that he was weak but now, because he wasn't crushed by humilating, he had proved to strong and confident and he had already proven what kind of king he would become and in the end we saw what he did in Prince's Trust.

[stcroix]

Oh yeah, I really believe the last scene with this woke Charles down on the floor dancing like he's 14.   😏

Also while I know this actor is popular, I just can't get over the choosing of him for the part of Charles!  Every scene is so unbelievable to me.  The other seasons I could believe the actor was Charles, but this time I can't.  He looks nothing like Charles, nothing at all and I can't get past it. 

[Helena Dax]

3 hours ago, stcroix said:

Oh yeah, I really believe the last scene with this woke Charles down on the floor dancing like he's 14.   😏

He did it. Not very well, but he did it! The videos are on YouTube.

I'm old enough to remember this incident and while at the time I thought it was hilarious, I'm appalled by the fact that a private conversation could be published just like that, especially one that doesn't involve anything criminal. And while I understand how hurtful it was for Diana, in the end it only proved that the true love story had always been Charles and Camilla.

Also, Philip is the one to talk! The only reason he got away with his infidelities is because everyone rushed to cover his arse.

[Roseanna]

3 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

I'm old enough to remember this incident and while at the time I thought it was hilarious, I'm appalled by the fact that a private conversation could be published just like that, especially one that doesn't involve anything criminal.

I agree. There was clear hypocrisy because many people have done just the same. But tabloids publish things that should be private because people buy them. 

[Dejana]

8 hours ago, stcroix said:

Oh yeah, I really believe the last scene with this woke Charles down on the floor dancing like he's 14.   😏

Charles really did breakdance with the youths, but in 1985, so the show should have done that scene with Josh O'Connor last season:

[Spartan Girl]

I can’t believe the breakdancing scene happened. It’s pretty hilarious. And yes they should have done it with Josh.

Look, what two consenting adults do with their sex life is their business and the paparazzi are scum for leaking that tape. Still, that whole phone call…yikes.

Charles’ interview still has me 🙄. “I was faithful until it was impossible to be so and then old feelings were rekindled.” Puh-lease. That’s not what we saw last season.

The revenge dress scene was everything. Diana looked absolutely stunning, and all things considered it was a pretty classy fuck-you.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Spartan Girl

[peridot]

I couldn't believe that Charles was complaining to all of those people in the beginning.  There were at least twenty people at the table!  The details of the phone call was a big WTF.  It's pretty awful that the paper held on to the tape for three years.  How long would they have held on to it, if Diana and Charles didn't separate?  I laughed at Anne's face when she was reading the paper.

Philip's reaction was so cruel.  He could have saved that chewing out for when he was alone with Charles, but public humiliation was so awful.  The "are you still here" was messed up as well. 

I wonder why Camilla decided to move out since they were both having affairs, couldn't they have waited for the furor to blow over?

I couldn't believe the end dancing scene!  It didn't seem like Charles to me, it seemed like McNulty from The Wire was drunk on the dance floor.

[secnarf]

20 hours ago, stcroix said:

Oh yeah, I really believe the last scene with this woke Charles down on the floor dancing like he's 14.   😏

Also while I know this actor is popular, I just can't get over the choosing of him for the part of Charles!  Every scene is so unbelievable to me.  The other seasons I could believe the actor was Charles, but this time I can't.  He looks nothing like Charles, nothing at all and I can't get past it. 

I actually thought that scene was the most believable Dominic West has been as Charles - he nailed the awkward look!

(Though if I didn't already know that the scene really happened IRL I might have felt differently)

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Look, what two consenting adults do with their sex life is their business and the paparazzi are scum for leaking that tape. Still, that whole phone call…yikes.

This is where I am, too. Anne nailed it when she called Charles and Camilla "teenagers of a certain age," because that discussion was so juvenile. But no one deserves their private conversations made public like that.

2 hours ago, peridot said:

I laughed at Anne's face when she was reading the paper.

Same. Hers was the best, but everyone else's expressions (save for Diana's) were pretty funny, too.

[Marley]

Sorry I hated this episode. Just a bunch of bs. Prince Charles is not charismatic I don’t think ppl were clamouring for him to be king either.

Dominic West has annoying facial mannerisms when he’s acting and he did them when he was Mcnulty too so that’s all I think of when I see him sometimes. It worked for when he was Mcnulty but not as Prince Charles. Horrible choice for Prince Charles I don’t know if I will get over it.

[Roseanna]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:53 PM, peridot said:

I wonder why Camilla decided to move out since they were both having affairs, couldn't they have waited for the furor to blow over?

It wasn't Camilla's decision but her husband's. It was the code of the British upper class: everything is OK, the only sin is admit it public. Although Charles and Camilla's affair had been known for the public since the taped phone call was published, Charles acted in an un-gentlemanlike manner to admit it in the interview.

I wonder why Camilla forgave him for throwing her to the volwes in order to save himself. But perhaps there was no other option - she was midlle-aged, divorced, probably without much means, persecuted.

On 11/10/2022 at 9:44 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Charles’ interview still has me 🙄. “I was faithful until it was impossible to be so and then old feelings were rekindled.” Puh-lease. That’s not what we saw last season.

That's the problem with connecting reality and fiction. Charles's speech was real, but last season about their marriage was fiction. We have no means to know what kind of relationship, if any, Charles and Camilla irl had during the first years of his marriage. We only have Charles's version and Diana's version but they are told later.

Regarding the series, just as we weren't shown when Charles and Camilla began their affair during her marriage, we weren't shown anything about the first two years of Charles and Diana's marriage. Both things would have necessary to understand the characters better.    

[Dejana]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Charles’ interview still has me 🙄. “I was faithful until it was impossible to be so and then old feelings were rekindled.” Puh-lease. That’s not what we saw last season.

Right, but what else was Charles going to say? He couldn't totally deny an affair, thanks to the phone call, but could try to put the best spin on it. I wish we'd seen more of his team deciding how the Camilla issue was going to be addressed and what timeline of affair would be the most plausible for public consumption.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Dejana

[Snazzy Daisy]

We feel you Anne... 😆

Quote

Charles: “It was all a bit embarrassing, wasn’t it?”

Anne: “It was a little… gynaecological for my taste.”

Edited November 11, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[PRgal]

 Who thinks this episode could also be called "My Parents Suck and Won't Let Me Be Me!!!  And I'm In My 40s!" ?

[Avaleigh]

I liked Anne's reaction too, but the facial expression that had me dead was John Major's. 

I think Pryce is the least Philip like of the actors who've played him on this show in terms of voice and appearance. That being said, I'm really enjoying his version of Philip and thought he killed it in his dressing down of Charles. Having Philip speak to him that way in front of everyone was more humiliating than the leaking of the tape itself. This is a time when his family should be a source of comfort to him, but his father just goes and makes it all worse. 

How horrible too for Diana to hear that level of intimacy between her husband and Camilla. Also, I realize that Andrew Parker Bowles cheated on Camilla too but wow, imagine having to make small talk with the guy who is having an affair with your wife *and* having to call him sir and be polite AF. The whole situation is beyond awkward.

[Roseanna]

7 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

but wow, imagine having to make small talk with the guy who is having an affair with your wife *and* having to call him sir and be polite AF.

Irl he succeeded it perfectly before, even joking laying his wife for his country. It was the *public* humilation he couldn't stand. 

Charles *had* been resented by officers for breaking the code according to which one shouldn't have an affair with a fellow officer's wife.

[Lady Whistleup]

This episode really highlights what is lacking with Dominic West's portrayal of Charles. He's a good actor, and hits the right notes. But he can't make me care about Charles the way Josh O'Connor did. O'Connor wasn't afraid to make Charles arrogant, hateful, sniveling, whiny, vain, but he always made us realize that Charles was essentially a deeply insecure, awkward man. 

West is just so smooth. His interview with the journalist had none of the real-life awkwardness and cringe that Charles' actual interview had:

[greekmom]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, Spartan Girl said:

I can’t believe they breakdancing scene happened. It’s pretty hilarious. And yes they should have done it with Josh.

Look, what two consenting adults do with their sex life is their business and the paparazzi are scum for leaking that tape. Still, that whole phone call…yikes.

Charles’ interview still has me 🙄. “I was faithful until it was impossible to be so and then old feelings were rekindled.” Puh-lease. That’s not what we saw last season.

The revenge dress scene was everything. Diana looked absolutely stunning, and all things considered it was a pretty classy fuck-you.

I remember the whole thing, the Camillatapes, the revenge dress and the interview. It was yikes back then and yikes now watching it. Diana is a classy lady.  I never understood the pull to Camilla then and I don't understand it now.  Sure they were mismatched but if he tried more (i do place blame of the breakdown more on him than her) i think they could have come to a mutual understanding of common respect and mutual affection for each other.  But Josh as Charles' speech last season to Diana about how hurting Camilla hurts him just show what a dick Charles is.

19 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I liked Anne's reaction too, but the facial expression that had me dead was John Major's. 

Johnny Lee Miller is killing it as Majors.  I loved everyone's disgusted faces on the tampon talk. LOL.

[SnapHappy]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:53 PM, peridot said:

Philip's reaction was so cruel.  He could have saved that chewing out for when he was alone with Charles, but public humiliation was so awful.  The "are you still here" was messed up as well. 

Supposedly, that was Phillip's go-to move.  Make the scathing public proclamations when the target, including all of his children, not just Charles, was in a large crowd, and then could be dismissed. 

He was the Duke, so nobody, not even his wife would correct or rebuke him.  Though supposedly she would chastise him in private.  But by accounts, this was the only form of "discipline" she allowed him.  Sadistic old bastard. 

I like how Anne supported Charles to the family at the end.  I wonder if that was legit.   She was seriously wearing an 80's "Cosby" sweater in that newspaper reading scene.  That sweater was VERY legit for the time. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by SnapHappy

[Snazzy Daisy]

I wish The Crown could include this narcissistic line in their Tampongate scene.

Quote

"Your greatest achievement is to love me."

- Charles to Camilla

Ugh. 🤮

Edited November 12, 2022 by SnazzyDaisy

[SoWindsor]

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I thought that Charles ended up looking good this episode.

[ProudMary]

I've been enjoying the season so far, but I actually nodded off for a few moments during this episode, the only time I've done so during the six episodes I've watched so far. 😴 Disappointing episode, IMO.

I've been satisfied with with all three portrayals of Philip in the show. Menzies probably comes in atop my list, but I don't think any of the three have captured his essence as well as James Cromwell did in The Queen.

[paramitch]

10 hours ago, SoWindsor said:

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I thought that Charles ended up looking good this episode.

Yeah, I think he did too. I think it's very obvious that Peter Morgan's sympathies lie more with Charles than with Diana -- or, at least, let's say, he feels Charles was unfairly treated/judged etc.

I will say that I found this episode kind of oddly poignant, and even the infamous "tampon" conversation was sort of moving and sweet in a weird way to me, because it did communicate this very real sense of genuine passion and love between these two people. It's just a shame they had to break so many other people's hearts in the process.

Also, I love Olivia Williams, who is way too beautiful to play Camilla, but she's absolutely killing it in the role anyway. 

7 hours ago, ProudMary said:

I've been satisfied with with all three portrayals of Philip in the show. Menzies probably comes in atop my list, but I don't think any of the three have captured his essence as well as James Cromwell did in The Queen.

For me, Menzies is still the gold standard for Philip onscreen, although I loved Cromwell in The Queen. The interesting thing about The Queen for me is that I just never saw Elizabeth there, just Helen Mirren acting (whereas when she played QEI, previously, I absolutely believed it). I love Dame Helen, but I just never bought her in the role, whereas I think Imelda is just superb.

[poeticlicensed]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:53 AM, greekmom said:

remember the whole thing, the Camillatapes, the revenge dress and the interview. It was yikes back then and yikes now watching it. Diana is a classy lady.  I never understood the pull to Camilla then and I don't understand it now.  Sure they were mismatched but if he tried more (i do place blame of the breakdown more on him than her) i think they could have come to a mutual understanding of common respect and mutual affection for each other.  

Eh i get it. Camilla was on Charles wavelength, they totally understood each other. Even if Diana  was more beautiful than Camilla, Diana was incredibly needy and a younger Charles was not equipped for that. Yes it sucked, they should have never married. I dont think its fair to expect people to stay together when they were mismatched. 

That said I was pretty incredulous about Camilla carrying on with Charles in front of her husband. I know her husband was having affairs also but yeesh. Its thats civilized and sophisticated, ill pass. And the series seems to make no mention of Diana's affairs. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by poeticlicensed

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, poeticlicensed said:

That said I was pretty incredulous about Camilla carrying on with Charles in front of her husband. I know her husband was having affairs also but yeesh. Its thats civilized and sophisticated, ill pass.

I don't think it bothered her husband, but it's a wonder that their children didn't suspect anything - Charles was a godfather but still. He was quite selfish to disturb the family time, but Camilla let him. 

[nlkm9]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:36 AM, Dejana said:

Charles really did breakdance with the youths, but in 1985, so the show should have done that scene with Josh O'Connor last season:

I never knew about this-that may be the first thing he has done that I love!!!

[truthful]

On 11/11/2022 at 1:36 AM, Dejana said:

Charles really did breakdance with the youths, but in 1985, so the show should have done that scene with Josh O'Connor last season:

Probably because it didn't fit their portrayal of Charles last season as a miserable ogre whose only function in life seemed to be to obsess over Camilla or to mentally torture his wife.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 11/12/2022 at 2:44 PM, SoWindsor said:

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I thought that Charles ended up looking good this episode.

The show is certainly trying to push that narrative, I find it really obvious and too much this episode honestly.

[PeterPirate]

After the last two episodes I'm glad to have one that can't be disproven with a quick search of the internet.  

I like the ending of the episode.  Charles will be king someday, and he is setting things up for his eventual regency.  Dancing with the commoners and establishing charities is good stuff for a monarch.  The crown must win, yo.

[Roseanna]

On 11/13/2022 at 8:43 AM, paramitch said:

Yeah, I think he did too. I think it's very obvious that Peter Morgan's sympathies lie more with Charles than with Diana -- or, at least, let's say, he feels Charles was unfairly treated/judged etc.

Things always look different if you look things from outside and from the person's POV.

Plus, something that was consired a scandalin the 90ies, is now seen f.ex. as a violation of privacy. 

[andromeda331]

I remember tampgate and wish I could forget. I agree with Anne about how it sound. I really wish it hadn't been published. As bad as I felt for Charles and Camilla I felt worse for their kids. That can't have been fun to have out. I'm confused by Camilla still. When he called she looked like she was having fun with her kids and didn't want to stop.

Philip was an asshole as usual. 

I wonder if Charles's group ever gets tired of him always complaining.

I loved the revenge dress. Diana looked beautiful.

I liked the ending with the dancing. He did a good job showing Charles awkwardly dancing.

[dubbel zout]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I wonder if Charles's group ever gets tired of him always complaining.

Same! They probably just inwardly roll their eyes and think, "Here he goes again!"

[Sweet-tea]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:02 PM, Avaleigh said:

I think Pryce is the least Philip like of the actors who've played him on this show in terms of voice and appearance. That being said, I'm really enjoying his version of Philip and thought he killed it in his dressing down of Charles. Having Philip speak to him that way in front of everyone was more humiliating than the leaking of the tape itself. This is a time when his family should be a source of comfort to him, but his father just goes and makes it all worse. 

I don't see much of Philip's ladies man charisma in Pryce. He also looks older than he's supposed to be to me, as if he would've been a better pick if they were in the 2000s instead of the 90s. That aside, I think he's doing a good job. 

Quote

Also while I know this actor is popular, I just can't get over the choosing of him for the part of Charles!  Every scene is so unbelievable to me.  The other seasons I could believe the actor was Charles, but this time I can't.  He looks nothing like Charles, nothing at all and I can't get past it.

If I close my eyes, I can believe DW is Charles. But once I watch him it all falls apart. He is better looking and less dorky than Charles. (My husband doesn't know who DW is and said the same thing.) I didn't watch The Wire but remember him from The Affair. He's doing a good job with Charles' voice and accent. 

I was shocked at the scene of Charles blatantly asking Camilla's husband if he could talk to Camilla, interrupting their family event. How humiliating for the husband, and this probably went on for some time before the tapes were made public. 

I'm still on the fence about the actress playing Diana. She looks like her from a distance but I think Diana was prettier. Often the actors are better looking, so this is a bit different. I think her voice is good and she captures some of Diana's mannerisms, so I'm not sure what is missing in the portrayal. I can't put my finger on it. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Sweet-tea

[Magnumfangirl]

On 11/12/2022 at 1:44 PM, SoWindsor said:

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I thought that Charles ended up looking good this episode.

I think giving Charles the hero's edit was the point, but in real life it wasn't like that.  I remember him looking pretty ridiculous in that interview.  

I'm not sure which was worse Charles and Andrew Parker-Bowles making small talk on the phone or Camilla and Andrew watching the interview together.  

The phone call was revolting when I was a teen, as an adult it's pathetic.🙄

[qtpye]

20 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I wonder if Charles's group ever gets tired of him always complaining.

Charles's friends are sycophants who only want to kiss up to the future king. Very few of them probably genuinely like him.

On 11/13/2022 at 1:05 PM, poeticlicensed said:

That said I was pretty incredulous about Camilla carrying on with Charles in front of her husband. I know her husband was having affairs also but yeesh. Its thats civilized and sophisticated, ill pass. And the series seems to make no mention of Diana's affairs. 

Supposedly, among certain nobility, having your wife be the King or the Prince's mistress is considered an honor. I think I will also take a pass on this type of "sophistication". 

To me, Diana is coming off as awkward and strange. Though in all fairness, perhaps this is what she was at this time of her life. The actress does not have the "Diana Sparkle" or star power.

I find it ironic that the palace was so worried about this show.

Charles's own PR team could not have come up with a more flattering episode, particularly when you consider that it was set against one of the most embarrassing moments of his life.

[sistermagpie]

On 11/10/2022 at 10:44 AM, Spartan Girl said:

Charles’ interview still has me 🙄. “I was faithful until it was impossible to be so and then old feelings were rekindled.” Puh-lease. That’s not what we saw last season.

Until it was impossible to be so seems to mean until the end of the wedding ceremony!

On 11/11/2022 at 9:10 PM, Lady Whistleup said:

This episode really highlights what is lacking with Dominic West's portrayal of Charles. He's a good actor, and hits the right notes. But he can't make me care about Charles the way Josh O'Connor did. O'Connor wasn't afraid to make Charles arrogant, hateful, sniveling, whiny, vain, but he always made us realize that Charles was essentially a deeply insecure, awkward man. 

West is just so smooth. His interview with the journalist had none of the real-life awkwardness and cringe that Charles' actual interview had:

Yeah, the real interview was much more cringe.

On 11/12/2022 at 2:44 PM, SoWindsor said:

I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I thought that Charles ended up looking good this episode.

I think most people thought that, actually. That seemed to definitely be the intention.

The thing is, with Josh O'Connor you really could worry about how he'd handle being king. With DW there's just no reason to worry about him. He's obviously fine--and arrogant as well. Of course none of this would ruffle of him.

[truthful]

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I don't think either Josh or Dom have captured the true essence, the spirit of Charles. I like to think that the real Charles is somewhere in the middle of Dom's self assurance and the mewling cowardice of Josh.

[sistermagpie]

10 hours ago, truthful said:

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I don't think either Josh or Dom have captured the true essence, the spirit of Charles. I like to think that the real Charles is somewhere in the middle of Dom's self assurance and the mewling cowardice of Josh.

I agree - but I could see what the show was putting across more with Josh than with Dom. And it seems like Charles became a different person between seasons where Diana's more the way she was.

[kassa]

I guess people know the actress playing Diana from somewhere else. I don't, and I'm too distracted by the height. That said, this was her best episode and she sold the revenge dress scene. 

I do wonder whether Diana would have been teary over the tampon call. I would have imagined her DELIGHTING in the humiliation of it (though perhaps not if she was thinking her kids would have to live with it too).  There was nothing secret about Charles/Camilla's relationship to her. They had set up their own home at Highgrove with their own social circle that accepted them as a couple. So the call would not have come as any kind of revelation except that they were gross.

[Pallas]

The revelation to Diana, I would think, would be hearing the very real intimacy, sympathy, trust and tenderness between the couple. And how Camilla handled his needs.

[secnarf]

21 minutes ago, Pallas said:

The revelation to Diana, I would think, would be hearing the very real intimacy, sympathy, trust and tenderness between the couple. And how Camilla provided handled his needs.

I agree - beforehand, she could believe that Charles was simply incapable of showing the kind of love and intimacy that she has always craved of him. But with the release of the tapes, seeing that he is in fact capable, just not with her, would be quite difficult.

[Spartan Girl]

22 minutes ago, Pallas said:

The revelation to Diana, I would think, would be hearing the very real intimacy, sympathy, trust and tenderness between the couple. And how Camilla provided handled his needs.

Just now, secnarf said:

I agree - beforehand, she could believe that Charles was simply incapable of showing the kind of love and intimacy that she has always craved of him. But with the release of the tapes, seeing that he is in fact capable, just not with her, would be quite difficult.

Yes, I think that’s what stung the most about the whole thing. She had tried and tried to get him to open up and lighten up, be attentive and tender. And it turned out he had it in him all along, just not with her. That was what broke her heart.

The interview where he gave his own skewed version of events just rubbed more salt in the wound.

[Roseanna]

On 11/16/2022 at 5:55 PM, Pallas said:

The revelation to Diana, I would think, would be hearing the very real intimacy, sympathy, trust and tenderness between the couple. And how Camilla handled his needs.

On 11/16/2022 at 6:18 PM, secnarf said:

I agree - beforehand, she could believe that Charles was simply incapable of showing the kind of love and intimacy that she has always craved of him. But with the release of the tapes, seeing that he is in fact capable, just not with her, would be quite difficult.

On 11/16/2022 at 6:21 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Yes, I think that’s what stung the most about the whole thing. She had tried and tried to get him to open up and lighten up, be attentive and tender. And it turned out he had it in him all along, just not with her. That was what broke her heart.

*How* did she try it? You can't get love by demanding it, still less with jealous scenes.

Their discussion in Australia was revealing. They both needed to *be loved*, but Diana's suggestion how they could give love to each other was based on a mistake: to give the other what yourself long for. Later she tried two times (public singing, private singin in VHS) give Charles what she considered her best gifts to him, without undestanding he didn't value it all but reagrded it as her own self-promotion.

Camilla knew and could give just what Charles wanted, basically a motherly love and admiration. With her, he was always the star and she was the assistant (just like when they were telling together the joke about the bear). By satisfying his needs she made him dependent on her which was evidently what she needed. 

[tennisgurl]

You almost feel like the show felt it had to try and make Charles look a little bit better after last season just to try and even things out. He was just such a total asshole, it became impossible to sympathize with him at all, so maybe this season they felt like they needed to give him a bit of a nicer edit to find a middle ground. I think that Dominick is really trying to throw in some of Charles's awkwardness, but he's still just too smooth and confident, and that actually makes him less likable. Josh really nailed that combination of arrogance and insecurity that made him really hard to like but also made him understandable, as it was clear how uncomfortable he felt in his own skin and how a lot of his cruel behavior came out of his own massive insecurities, which doesn't excuse his bad treatment of his wife, but it does explain it more. Dominick just seems so cool that when he's a selfish asshole he's just a selfish asshole, not a selfish asshole who is so nervous about everything that he is falling apart at the seams. 

Charles actually makes a lot of good points about how to keep the monarchy going, but its always with this very self centered "only I can save the monarchy unlike you fossils" sort of edge to it. 

Everyone's expressions at reading the interview were killing me, except for poor Diana, getting a reminder that her husband could be open and romantic with someone, just not with her. Philip looked like his glare was going to set his paper on fire while John Majors eyes were about to pop out of his head. 

Its always fun to see more regular younger people on this show, it reminds you more of what decade we are actually in based around clothes and music, which can be hard when the royals are all so static in style. 

[jeansheridan]

On 11/11/2022 at 8:10 PM, Lady Whistleup said:

This episode really highlights what is lacking with Dominic West's portrayal of Charles. He's a good actor, and hits the right notes. But he can't make me care about Charles the way Josh O'Connor did. O'Connor wasn't afraid to make Charles arrogant, hateful, sniveling, whiny, vain, but he always made us realize that Charles was essentially a deeply insecure, awkward man.

It's hard to know how Charles thinks of himself but Dominic West definitely moves through the world like a handsome man. He can't break away from that. Josh is handsome but he jokes about his own ears. I imagine Charles had confidence up to a point but he was never a gorgeous man. Never the tallest or most athletic. And then to have Philip beat you down for so long...No wonder he adores Camilla. 1000% on his side.

I really appreciated how Anne and Charles were in this ep. They have a weird life but they get each other. 

Also it's not exactly tragic but ug. Charles is finally finding himself and boom. Public humiliation. I vaguely recall tampon-gate. It was mocked so much but when you see the full context, the jokiness of two people being very silly, it makes sense. Anne was right. It is deeply charming. Definitely sincere. And ultimately humans love sincerity.  That's probably why people accepted them as a couple eventually.  They're real. 

That is what probably hurt Diana the most too. She probably never got that side of him.

Philip was brutal! And given his own infidelity, a hypocrit. 

[LadyIrony]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:05 PM, stcroix said:

Oh yeah, I really believe the last scene with this woke Charles down on the floor dancing like he's 14.   😏

Also while I know this actor is popular, I just can't get over the choosing of him for the part of Charles!  Every scene is so unbelievable to me.  The other seasons I could believe the actor was Charles, but this time I can't.  He looks nothing like Charles, nothing at all and I can't get past it. 

The actor playing Charles does make Charles look like James Bond. 

On 11/11/2022 at 2:36 AM, Dejana said:

Charles really did breakdance with the youths, but in 1985, so the show should have done that scene with Josh O'Connor last season:

For a total fish out of water it's really not as bad as I thought it would be!

That phone call was terrible! When he started talking about tampons oh wow! I'm still amazed they published it, it's not like he was talking about anything threatening National Security. 

[Blakeston]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:43 AM, paramitch said:

Yeah, I think he did too. I think it's very obvious that Peter Morgan's sympathies lie more with Charles than with Diana -- or, at least, let's say, he feels Charles was unfairly treated/judged etc.

The series has depicted Charles as a monster over and over again, while glossing over most of Diana's flaws. They've shown that she's a shitty gift-giver, and that she contrived their first meeting (while pretending that she was trying to avoid disturbing him), but those are tiny sins compared to what they've showed us of Charles.

This episode seemed like they were finally throwing Charles a bone after trashing him throughout season 4, rather than a sign that the writers are on his side.

I was a teenager when the infamous transcripts were released, and all I knew about it was brief coverage in the news, and maybe some jokes from late night talk show hosts. I actually thought the content was significantly worse than it was. 

Up until now I was under the impression that Charles was saying that he had a specific sexual fantasy about being her tampon - as opposed to him saying that he wanted to be inside her, and then joking with her about tampons.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Blakeston

[chocolatine]

I always get a kick out of the eloquence with which the Queen and Philip insult Charles. "Among your many unjustified military honors" had me rolling.

I did like the facts about The Prince's Trust though. Charles sucks big time, but he's not a total waste of space.

[Camera One]

I guess I will have to give this episode some props for taking salicious tabloid material, and showing what it might have meant for the people involved. 

It was funny how he was complaining to an entire table at the beginning.  I guess for the guests, anything for a good dinner. 

Having a private conversation like that leaked would have been deeply embarrassing, and this episode did a good job of making that clear.  People are good at judging celebrities, and some revel in it forgetting they are actual people with feelings living a situation that is more complex with details we are not privy to.  

Anne and Charles' conversations were nice.  She was frank with him but also sympathized with him.  

This actor really looks nothing like Charles, which bothered in previous episodes, but in this one, I think he did a good job and sort of made me forget about the appearance for a bit.  I find it interesting that the previous Charles actor said before he accepted the role, he made sure he would not have to play out this phone conversation.

22 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I always get a kick out of the eloquence with which the Queen and Philip insult Charles. "Among your many unjustified military honors" had me rolling.

Yeah, I really enjoy the seemingly polite but cutting insults that can be delivered by British high society.

Five episodes in, and they still haven't given the Queen a centric yet.  They made her and Philip quite rigid and out of touch again in this episode.  Though Philip's tirade at a middle aged man was nicely staged.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Camera One