Joy Behar: "So Whaat? Who Caaaares?"

[Bamaka]

Joy is such an unhappy person.  You would think she could at least be civil the the guests.  She must have been a real joy as a teacher.😖

[blondiec0332]

1 hour ago, Bamaka said:

Joy is such an unhappy person.  You would think she could at least be civil the the guests.  She must have been a real joy as a teacher.😖

Joy seems to live by the golden rule. You treat me well I will treat you well.

[cinsays]

1 hour ago, Bamaka said:

Joy is such an unhappy person.  You would think she could at least be civil the the guests.  She must have been a real joy as a teacher.😖

I think she just truly is so disheartened by what is going on in our country and the world that it makes her unhappy. She is usually very civil to the guests - you must be confusing her with Megzy, who is generally rude to most guests and her fellow panelists.

[GoldenGirl90]

2 hours ago, Bamaka said:

Joy is such an unhappy person.  You would think she could at least be civil the the guests.  She must have been a real joy as a teacher.😖

Huh? She seems pretty happy to me. She just calls it like she sees it and there’s a lot to call out with what’s going on in this country...

[rcc]

Joy has had a rough couple of days on the show.

[MMEButterfly]

With the black face accusation, tanning her skin (and beautifully) in the 70s bore no resemblance to the black-face understand in 1970. I'm pretty close to Joy's age and probably shared many of her attitudes then about color and women. "Black face" meant Al Jolson or minstrel shows. In 1970, minstrel shows were just disappearing from small towns in Indiana (and other states.) There was some resentment from men who had put black shoe polish on their faces and spoken like they imagined illiterate southern black folks spoke and thought. To my knowledge no southern black folks ever spoke in that manner. It was black-face minstrel speak. White people laughed and apparently had no idea it was demeaning, though many of us white people did see that it was. It was even a divisive issue in 1970. Nobody thought using light self tanner to become more beautiful (or even exotic)  was, in any way, the same thing. Had Joy done something that was demeaning to people of color, we might just say attitudes change. I suspect her attitude was just fine. There was nothing demeaning in her costume. I've seen her criticized before on this, and it often comes from exactly the people who liked the minstrel shows back in the day. I mean this literally in my personal experience, the actual same people. 

[merriebreeze]

The Kiwanis Club in my small southern town put on an annual minstrel show. The whole town showed up to support the club's charitable efforts - eyeglasses mainly. Of course, it must've been extremely offensive to many, but my family and our neighbors were clueless. That was blackface. Not what Joy did. 

[Picture It. Sicily]

4 hours ago, Bamaka said:

Joy is such an unhappy person.  You would think she could at least be civil the the guests.  She must have been a real joy as a teacher.😖

She's not an unhappy person. She just has no patience for certain people.

[suomi]

It's the old saying: "She doesn't suffer fools gladly."

[RealHousewife]

If what Joy did is blackface, that means everyone out there who tans or uses bronzer is also guilty of blackface.

I bet 2019 Joy Behar would be leery of being an African woman for Halloween so as not to offend, but even in that decades old pic, that is not what the vast majority of folks consider blackface. I don't think Joy has a racist bone in her body. 

[GoldenGirl90]

1 hour ago, RealHousewife said:

If what Joy did is blackface, that means everyone out there who tans or uses bronzer is also guilty of blackface.

I bet 2019 Joy Behar would be leery of being an African woman for Halloween so as not to offend, but even in that decades old pic, that is not what the vast majority of folks consider blackface. I don't think Joy has a racist bone in her body. 

I talked to a few of my girlfriends who don’t watch the show (they’re all black) and showed them the picture in question. I already have my own opinion, but all of them said it looked like a white woman who went tanning over the weekend or something. Not saying they represent all black people (obviously), but none of them thought of blackface when they saw the pic. As a POC, I didn’t see blackface when I first saw the pic. I know Joy said in the clip that she was “a beautiful African woman,” but I’m just not seeing that in the pic. Raven-Symone is a black woman and she wasn’t offended in that clip. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by GoldenGirl90

[lusinia]

In reading some of the many, many articles about today"s show, a couple of them quote Whoopie saying this -  

Quote

“No, she was not in blackface. Being black I recognize blackface — this I can say,” Goldberg said in Behar’s defense before going on to defend her own comments.People

[maggiemae]

Good grief - Joy has curly hair and it was in an afro. She kept saying that when the photo was revealed in 2016.

Edited November 8, 2019 by maggiemae

[MMEButterfly]

4 hours ago, merriebreeze said:

The Kiwanis Club in my small southern town put on an annual minstrel show. The whole town showed up to support the club's charitable efforts - eyeglasses mainly. Of course, it must've been extremely offensive to many, but my family and our neighbors were clueless. That was blackface. Not what Joy did. 

Yes, Kiwanis with my town too. And it was for charity. They were good men and saw no wrong in it. They were aiming for humor, not attractive tans. 

[MMEButterfly]

10 hours ago, GoldenGirl90 said:

I talked to a few of my girlfriends who don’t watch the show (they’re all black) and showed them the picture in question. I already have my own opinion, but all of them said it looked like a white woman who went tanning over the weekend or something. Not saying they represent all black people (obviously), but none of them thought of blackface when they saw the pic. As a POC, I didn’t see blackface when I first saw the pic. I know Joy said in the clip that she was “a beautiful African woman,” but I’m just not seeing that in the pic. Raven-Symone is a black woman and she wasn’t offended in that clip. 

I know. And the black is beautiful movement was in full glory in 1970. 

[Blissfool]

Joy's  intention was to be black for Halloween. I know she is not racist, but that was not a good choice. As people say, "My culture is not your costume."

I know she wouldn't do it in this day and age, so that's good.

[May Jacks]

3 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Joy's  intention was to be black for Halloween. I know she is not racist, but that was not a good choice. As people say, "My culture is not your costume."

I know she wouldn't do it in this day and age, so that's good.

No matter how someone may try to spin it. Darkening your skin to dress up and portray a black yourself as black is blackface. It doesn’t matter that it isn’t the exact blackface of the 1920s. Black people aren’t costumes.

[General Days]

4 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Joy's  intention was to be black for Halloween. I know she is not racist, but that was not a good choice. As people say, "My culture is not your costume."

I know she wouldn't do it in this day and age, so that's good.

54 minutes ago, May Jacks said:

No matter how someone may try to spin it. Darkening your skin to dress up and portray a black yourself as black is blackface. It doesn’t matter that it isn’t the exact blackface of the 1920s. Black people aren’t costumes.

May Jacks, you're right that it is wrong. Today, we know (or should) what you and Blissfool said -- that one person's culture shouldn't be another person's costume.

In 1972, a white woman dressing up as an attractive African woman would not have been widely understood to be blackface, any kind of mockery, or as a negative thing. 

When my kid was about 1 year old, he whacked his head against the bridge of my nose ridiculously hard, while we were playing. I saw stars. (He might have broken my nose, but I didn't go to the doctor.) He hurt me, but he didn't mean to hurt me. He didn't even know he hurt me. 

If instead my nose had gotten hurt because my husband punched me, it also would have hurt me, but the acts are vastly different. He would have known he was going to hurt me. (My husband never did this, btw.)

That's the difference between Joy wearing that costume in 1972, versus someone wearing it today. 

Both hurt. No one's saying that one feels good. Still, I would never equate those two actions, even though they both hurt. Not equating them is not the same as spin.

Today everyone knows (or should know; it's been in the national conversation since at least the early 1990s) that whites darkening their skin to appear to be of another ethnicity or race is wrong and hurtful.

Yesterday, on the show, DJTjr  brought up Joy's costume, as if she set out to mock people of color by wearing blackface. He talked about it as you would, if someone walked up to me and hit me on purpose.

He was being intentionally deceptive about Joy to make her look bad. I don't have to give him the benefit of the doubt, or accept his b.s., even though white people shouldn't darken their skin to dress up as people of color.

ABC and the producers of The View should be ashamed of themselves for letting that festering boil come on to pimp his loathsome book.

[blondiec0332]

17 minutes ago, General Days said:

Yesterday, on the show, DJTjr  brought up Joy's costume, as if she set out to mock people of color by wearing blackface. He talked about it as you would, if someone walked up to me and hit me on purpose.

It's interesting he went after Joy for that and went after Whoopi for the rape rape remark. Why not go after Whoopi for her blackface scandal?

[lusinia]

General Days, you explained the blackface issue so well here.

I also agree that the producers kind of threw their own co-workers to the lions by having those two on, and while the hosts emerged relatively unscathed, it was otherwise a less than useless spectacle. 

[DB in CMH]

33 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

It's interesting he went after Joy for that and went after Whoopi for the rape rape remark. Why not go after Whoopi for her blackface scandal?

I think he was going to, But Whoppi cut him off because she could see where it was going.

[Coffeewinewater]

40 minutes ago, lusinia said:

General Days, you explained the blackface issue so well here.

I also agree that the producers kind of threw their own co-workers to the lions by having those two on, and while the hosts emerged relatively unscathed, it was otherwise a less than useless spectacle. 

I'm so disappointed in the shows producers or whomever booked those two yesterday.  I didn't watch but when I read about it here.  DTJ bringing up Joy's "blackface" was so a talking point he planned to bring up, just to discredit  Joy. I'm  beyond pissed on Joy's behalf.  I understand that the women held their own against those two but The View was basically handed over to DTJ and his fans. Reading about the booing and arguments with audience members and now the constant Tweets about the hosts, sounds crazy. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Coffeewinewater

[tinkerbell]

1 hour ago, General Days said:

Yesterday, on the show, DJTjr  brought up Joy's costume, as if she set out to mock people of color by wearing blackface. He talked about it as you would, if someone walked up to me and hit me on purpose.

He was being intentionally deceptive about Joy to make her look bad. I don't have to give him the benefit of the doubt, or accept his b.s., even though white people shouldn't darken their skin to dress up as people of color.

He brought that up, and brought up Whoopi's defense of Polanski, to deflect and distract. 

Criticism is launched toward his dad, and he says, "Racist?  I'll tell you what's racist!  Sexist?  I'll tell you what's sexist!"  and the discussion then becomes about the examples he brought up, instead of the pertinent discussion at hand.  

  HIs whole thing is that he praises his dad and it "triggers"  liberals.  He was using his appearance on The View to start arguments, then tweet the clips so he can brag about it.  He wanted to dredge up the "Joy in blackface"  topic, so people would discuss that OLD topic, instead of the real stuff going on in his father's administration.  

[Pearson80]

10 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Joy's  intention was to be black for Halloween. I know she is not racist, but that was not a good choice. As people say, "My culture is not your costume."

I know she wouldn't do it in this day and age, so that's good.

I am Black and Joy did not do Black face. She looked like a tan White woman or mixed race woman. Plus, Joy is Italian. It was not that long ago that Italians were not considered White, especially those who came from the southern part of Italy..

Edited November 8, 2019 by Pearson80

[Pearson80]

4 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

It's interesting he went after Joy for that and went after Whoopi for the rape rape remark. Why not go after Whoopi for her blackface scandal?

Whoopie's scandal with Ted Danson was Blackface. He was her boyfriend at the time spoke in a stereotypical Black accent  while saying the N word with Whoopie laughing and having fun. It was a modern day minstrel show that horrified the guests at the roast.  I remember the pictures being printed in Newspapers and the Backlash was fierce. Whoopie paid a price for it more so than Ted.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Pearson80

[bannana]

6 minutes ago, Pearson80 said:

Whoopie's scandal with Ted Danson was Blackface. He was her boyfriend at the time spoke in a stereotypical Black accent  while saying the N word with Whoopie laughing and having fun. It was a modern day minstrel show that horrified the guests at the roast.  I remember the pictures being printed in Newspapers and the Backlash was fierce. Whoopie paid a price for it more so than Ted.

Yes, didn't she actually defend him by saying it was her idea?

[Pearson80]

5 minutes ago, bannana said:

Yes, didn't she actually defend him by saying it was her idea?

She did and said that people were being too sensitive. She attacked her critics viciously and it started the decline of her career after her Oscar win.. The Black community turned against her.. She and Ted broke up after that..

Edited November 8, 2019 by Pearson80

[HaaCHOO]

7 hours ago, May Jacks said:

Darkening your skin to dress up and portray a black yourself as black is blackface.

Many would disagree; I certainly do.  The hundreds of White actors who have potrayed Othello are now accused of "blackface"?  The generalization doesn't work.

[Jaded]

Joy's not doing too bad if the worst thing DJTjr and his people could bring up to try and disparage her on public television was a Halloween costume from almost 50yrs ago. Am I misremembering that she's expressed regret about that costume in the past?. Whoopi and Ted's incident as was mentioned above was actual blackface and done at a time when it was well known that it was more then taboo. That either of them at their ages thought it would be funny still baffles me.

Joy should have said while she didn't consider it to be blackface that looking back she wished choosing that costume was something she hadn't done.

I haven't watched an episode with NutMeg as a panelist since they went on Xmas break last year. So I'm sharing my opinion about what's been brought up here the most when it comes to DJTjr's comments about the hosts on the show.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Jaded

[MMEButterfly]

5 hours ago, General Days said:

May Jacks, you're right that it is wrong. Today, we know (or should) what you and Blissfool said -- that one person's culture shouldn't be another person's costume.

In 1972, a white woman dressing up as an attractive African woman would not have been widely understood to be blackface, any kind of mockery, or as a negative thing. 

When my kid was about 1 year old, he whacked his head against the bridge of my nose ridiculously hard, while we were playing. I saw stars. (He might have broken my nose, but I didn't go to the doctor.) He hurt me, but he didn't mean to hurt me. He didn't even know he hurt me. 

If instead my nose had gotten hurt because my husband punched me, it also would have hurt me, but the acts are vastly different. He would have known he was going to hurt me. (My husband never did this, btw.)

That's the difference between Joy wearing that costume in 1972, versus someone wearing it today. 

Both hurt. No one's saying that one feels good. Still, I would never equate those two actions, even though they both hurt. Not equating them is not the same as spin.

Today everyone knows (or should know; it's been in the national conversation since at least the early 1990s) that whites darkening their skin to appear to be of another ethnicity or race is wrong and hurtful.

Yesterday, on the show, DJTjr  brought up Joy's costume, as if she set out to mock people of color by wearing blackface. He talked about it as you would, if someone walked up to me and hit me on purpose.

He was being intentionally deceptive about Joy to make her look bad. I don't have to give him the benefit of the doubt, or accept his b.s., even though white people shouldn't darken their skin to dress up as people of color.

ABC and the producers of The View should be ashamed of themselves for letting that festering boil come on to pimp his loathsome book.

He was being purposely deceptive. Who guests on a show to plug a book loaded with rude insults to those hosting you? 

11 hours ago, Blissfool said:

Joy's  intention was to be black for Halloween. I know she is not racist, but that was not a good choice. As people say, "My culture is not your costume."

I know she wouldn't do it in this day and age, so that's good.

I traveled in fairly liberal circles in the 60s and 70s, and we had no sense of "my culture is not your costume." 

[deirdra]

Previously Joy has mentioned that when she wore her naturally curly/frizzy hair au naturel, people often asked if she was biracial. She probably just added some Q-T and went with it.  She did look beautiful and was not mocking anyone. And she wouldn't do it today.

Danson painted on thick white lips w/his blackface while jive-talking and n-wording.  He was probably trying to be ironic, and Whoopi thought it was funny, but people of many colours found it offensive.

My Black nieces were dressed up as Elsa & Anna for Halloween, thankfully not in white face. 

[Anthea84]

Does anyone has the clip. Because I remember she said I looked like a beautiful black woman. I dont remember she mentioning it was for halloween.

[lusinia]

On 11/8/2019 at 9:06 PM, Anthea84 said:

Does anyone has the clip. Because I remember she said I looked like a beautiful black woman. I dont remember she mentioning it was for halloween.

Here's an article that includes the clip - yahoo.com

Edited November 10, 2019 by lusinia
fixed link

[RealHousewife]

I think people forget how old Joy is because she comes across so much younger. She’s about as woke as a 77-year-old gets. Anyone who’s watched The View for years knows Joy isn’t a prejudice person and would never want to hurt any minority group. She is an ally. 

[HaaCHOO]

6 hours ago, deirdra said:

Danson painted on thick white lips w/his blackface

"Usta be...."   It used to be that the thick painted white lips were what caused the caricature to be denoted blackface.

[MMEButterfly]

5 hours ago, HaaCHOO said:

"Usta be...."   It used to be that the thick painted white lips were what caused the caricature to be denoted blackface.

Yes! I had forgotten that part. Shoe polish face with huge white lips. And I've been thinking about the dressing for other cultures in the 70s. In the late 70s my children were preschool and early grade school. The Halloween after we went to Disney World they all wore costumes like the children in Small World. So their costumes were purposely someone else's culture. It was a pretty mainstream idea. 

[deirdra]

Then there is Whoopi in whiteface

Edited November 10, 2019 by deirdra

[General Days]

On 11/8/2019 at 10:44 PM, lusinia said:

Here's an article that includes the clip - yahoo entertainment

That link took me to a September 2019 article at the Daily Beat about Trump and Zelensky. 

Try this link, if you're looking for the clip of Joy's 1972 costume, which DJTjr brought up on the show this week:  https://www.thewrap.com/that-time-joy-behar-wore-darker-makeup-to-dress-as-a-beautiful-african-woman-in-the-70s-video/

On 11/8/2019 at 6:19 PM, Pearson80 said:

I am Black and Joy did not do Black face. She looked like a tan White woman or mixed race woman. Plus, Joy is Italian. It was not that long ago that Italians were not considered White, especially those who came from the southern part of Italy..

I'm white, so please know I'm not telling you or any black person how to feel about blackface or other cultural appropriation.  

I'm saying this for the benefit of white people, and because I don't want my earlier post to be mistaken for an overall defense of this practice: Because of the shameful legacy of blackface, today, darkening your skin to appear like a Person of Color is widely considered blackface and is offensive, even if you use regular cosmetics as opposed to shoe polish or greasepaint. Please don't do it.

What Joy did wasn't widely known to be hurtful in 1972. It is now.

11 hours ago, deirdra said:

Then there is Whoopi in whiteface

First of all, I can't not laugh at that costume. More seriously, I don't think that's equivalent. There isn't a long history of black people enslaving white people, then oppressing them, while making a mockery of them in minstrel shows.
 

Fun historical fact: Queen Elizabeth I wore white face. She wasn't just a caucasian. Pale skin was prized in her era, and she had smallpox scars which she tried to cover up with thick white makeup. The makeup included white lead and may have contributed to her demise. 

[lusinia]

41 minutes ago, General Days said:

That link took me to a September 2019 article at the Daily Beat about Trump and Zelensky.

Oh, I'm so sorry.  I guess I didn't check carefully when I cut and paste it.  And thanks for letting me know, so I could go back and fix it.

[falltime]

[BuckeyeLou]

11 minutes ago, falltime said:

Yum, that looks delicious! 

[Tammee]

1 hour ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Yum, that looks delicious! 

She should do a cooking side show.  Laughed at the slight MM digs heehee. Im so sadistic.  

[deirdra]

And Sunny is still complaining that Joy still hasn't baked her a lasagna.  Joy should say - watch the video and make it yourself!  When a female coworker baked a birthday cake for Manny, Sunny threw it in the trash!

[RealHousewife]

11 hours ago, deirdra said:

And Sunny is still complaining that Joy still hasn't baked her a lasagna.  Joy should say - watch the video and make it yourself!  When a female coworker baked a birthday cake for Manny, Sunny threw it in the trash!

Lol I remember Sunny mentioning that. I’ll admit I’ve seen some female coworkers go out of their way for men on their birthdays and such. There are some people who are just thoughtful towards everyone, but the women Sunny worries about absolutely exist. 

[HaaCHOO]

13 hours ago, Tammee said:

14 hours ago, BuckeyeLou said:

Yum, that looks delicious! 

She should do a cooking side show.

I'm assuming that's Joy's kitchen.  Looks very nice--not pretentious at all, and very cook-friendly-efficient.  Her subway tiles look aqua to me (my favorite color and it's all over my house).

[blondiec0332]

2 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

13 hours ago, deirdra said:

And Sunny is still complaining that Joy still hasn't baked her a lasagna.  Joy should say - watch the video and make it yourself!  When a female coworker baked a birthday cake for Manny, Sunny threw it in the trash!

Lol I remember Sunny mentioning that. I’ll admit I’ve seen some female coworkers go out of their way for men on their birthdays and such. There are some people who are just thoughtful towards everyone, but the women Sunny worries about absolutely exist. 

If the co worker made a cake for everyone on their birthday that is one thing but if this co worker made a cake for Manny only I probably would have been suspicious (of the co worker not Manny).  But throwing it in the garbage was IMO over the top.

[RealHousewife]

55 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

If the co worker made a cake for everyone on their birthday that is one thing but if this co worker made a cake for Manny only I probably would have been suspicious (of the co worker not Manny).  But throwing it in the garbage was IMO over the top.

Same. Sometimes I wonder if Sunny plays up her jealousy for comedic effect, but that move was definitely not just to be playfully jealous. 

[suomi]

What an insult/what an embarrassment to someone on national TV, to brag about throwing their effort in the trash. Definitely a low class move.

Also, if you truly suspect something is hinky why give your "rival" any satisfaction (again, on national TV)?

Sunny elevated it well beyond neighborhood or workplace gossip.

[RealHousewife]

4 minutes ago, suomi said:

What an insult/what an embarrassment to someone on national TV, to brag about throwing their effort in the trash. Definitely a low class move.

Also, if you truly suspect something is hinky why give your "rival" any satisfaction (again, on national TV)?

Sunny elevated it well beyond neighborhood or workplace gossip.

Did she say anything else about that instance? Some people are simply thoughtful and want to make their coworkers feel special on their birthdays. I’ve even been told by coworkers they were really touched I did something because their own family didn’t bother doing anything. I’m so curious if it was some sweet old lady who loved to bake or if it was some young sexy woman (who still may have just been trying to be nice) and Sunny felt threatened. Opposite sex relationships can be tricky. I never want to step on anyone’s toes but want guy friends to still know I care about them. I’d be really hurt if I made a cake for someone with nothing but good intentions and it got thrown in the trash. Because I know wives and girlfriends get jealous, I typically just bake/buy for the entire office if I want to do something for a male. I’ve seen those thirsty chicks and don’t want to be grouped in with them.

[cinsays]

2 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

If the co worker made a cake for everyone on their birthday that is one thing but if this co worker made a cake for Manny only I probably would have been suspicious (of the co worker not Manny).  But throwing it in the garbage was IMO over the top.

Yeah, that was a pretty extreme reaction. Or toss it but don't tell anyone about it. That's just unkind.