S12.E18: Rocky Mountain Bye

[RealHousewife]

1 hour ago, ladle said:

Okay, so on one hand, Kyle's histrionics about Erika and Dorit missing the hat event were waaaaay over the top (and also 100% in line with who Kyle is). The whole time I'm thinking, why would you guilt a friend into attending something like this? I wouldn't want to strong-arm a friend into coming to my party, and then know that they're only there because they felt pressured. Who does that? 

On the other hand, if you listen to their coded language and think about this in terms of work obligations, it makes a little more sense. Kyle and the others have pulled up their Big Girl Pants countless times and attended events even when there was tension between them and the other women. So, Kyle sees Erika noping out -- and Dorit enabling her-- and feels resentful. And I get that! Similarly, this week at work I found out that there's something I do routinely as part of my job, which a colleague at my same rank has never been asked to do (supposedly because they "would be bad at it"), and that kind of burned. So I actually see where Kyle was coming from here! 

But the reaction was too extreme!  

On WWC, one of the guys said it was like a kid whose slumber party doesn't go over well. lol 

[ladle]

On 9/14/2022 at 8:13 PM, NJbutNoHousewife said:

Erica and Lippy are the perfect pair, both are the biggest victims ever. Sickening to watch them. 

I’m actually not sure if you’re talking about Rinna (huge lips) or Diana (lip licker) here. But: YES.

[JonnieUniteUs]

On 9/15/2022 at 7:24 AM, hoodooznoodooz said:

Erika is deranged.

Crystal is an a- -h- - -? But Erika is a wife left in ruin.

Any therapists here? What kind of trauma could explain this degree of narcissism? 

Wasn’t Erika’s mother sort of hands off or not around Erika much so that Ericka considered her grandmother raised her?  I may not have that correct but if that was the case Erika could have turned into a narcissist as a young child as a defense mechanism to deal with the pain of the mother’s disinterest in her.  A child desires the parents love intensely and it can F them up badly if they don’t get it.  Maybe she was also abused in other ways.  Who knows.

[Jel]

18 minutes ago, JonnieUniteUs said:

Wasn’t Erika’s mother sort of hands off or not around Erika much so that Ericka considered her grandmother raised her?  I may not have that correct but if that was the case Erika could have turned into a narcissist as a young child as a defense mechanism to deal with the pain of the mother’s disinterest in her.  A child desires the parents love intensely and it can F them up badly if they don’t get it.  Maybe she was also abused in other ways.  Who knows.

When Erika snarls and gets that guttural tone in her voice, I always wonder if that's how her mother spoke to her as a child. 

[ladle]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:26 PM, Surrealist said:

Crystal, Garcelle, and Sutton are the trio I've always wanted (and needed) on this show.

Yesssss. I don’t even particularly like two out of the three of them but my lord I hope they rise up.

[HelloOutThere]

When Kyle screamed “Burning Benjamins!!” during setting the hat on fire while obviously filming a vid for social media - TACKY. TRASHY. SAD. She is just such a…tool. 

As messy and outrageous as it all is, this Aspen trip is one for the books. It is a SHIT SHOW. And certainly delivering on drama. And each new chapter just ruins Kyle’s “special trip” to her “happy place” even more! Score!

[ladle]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:49 PM, SweetieDarling said:

RIght? And I want a more credible source than not Rinna

And, from the end of the episode, it looks like not all of them went to the club, right? Some of the women seemed to be headed back to the house. If Crystal, Sutton, and Garcelle weren’t in attendance I doubt we’ll ever get the straight story of what happened. 

[Jel]

8 minutes ago, ladle said:

And, from the end of the episode, it looks like not all of them went to the club, right? Some of the women seemed to be headed back to the house. If Crystal, Sutton, and Garcelle weren’t in attendance I doubt we’ll ever get the straight story of what happened. 

It’ll be interesting. I agree that we must have some credible sources. If it’s just Kyle, Rinna, Dorit and Erika, that’s just too much like the orchestrated feeling takedowns of Lisa Vanderpump and Denise. And I will have a hard time believing any of it. I also don’t know anyone who uses racist or homophobic slurs, not even at their worst drunken moments. The whole thing just seems a little too on the nose. Kind of the one thing we can all agree is unacceptable, and to have it happen with no credible witnesses? Time will tell but side eye activated.

I can believe Kathy said some crappy things about Kyle, but that has not been the focus of the scandal.

[Talented Tenth]

On 9/15/2022 at 11:22 AM, jalady said:

If I had as much money as Kathy, there’s not enough tequila in Mexico that could entice me to be on this show.  I. Just. Don’t. Get. It.  She’s rich, she’s famous(ish). I probably wouldn’t recognize her in public but lots of others would.    Why put yourself through this???  Anyone?

I'm sure it's exciting for anyone on the show to be in the spotlight and get all of the perks that go along with being a Housewife. 

[Talented Tenth]

On 9/16/2022 at 6:54 AM, JenE4 said:

Yeah, but Erika is the big draw because we want to see her downfall.  That’s like backing Putin because there’s a lot of attention on Ukraine. Why are you backing the villain of the story?

No matter how much anyone dislikes Erika, there is no proof of her doing anything wrong.  Being disliked shouldn't be a fireable offense.  The audience is so fickle -- they love you one minute then hate you the next.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Talented Tenth

[Jel]

She may not have done anything legally wrong. That doesn't mean she didn't do anything wrong though.  

[CharlizeCat]

So many great comments and observations!

I found it curious that Mo's motivation for insisting the Kyle and Dorit hug it out was for his sake as well as PK's. I got the impression that more than the bromance was a stake there.

Both Kyle and Dorit were wrong, IMO. It was rude for Dorit to just blow Kyle's shopping event off, as Erika had Diana with her. OTOH, Kyle W-A-A-Y overreacted. I want to bet that PK, Dorit, Kyle, Mo, et al, have been to Aspen together on other vacations and Dorit has been to Kemo Sabe before (what a name).

Or, maybe Kyle was promised a fat commission off sales from her friends. If Dorit and Diana were absent, well, that could make a big $$$ difference! 

[Cosmocrush]

1 hour ago, Talented Tenth said:

I'm sure it's exciting for anyone on the show to be in the spotlight and get all of the perks that go along with being a Housewife. 

Especially a famewhore like Kathy Hilton, mother of Paris Hilton. 

[amarante]

1 hour ago, Talented Tenth said:

No matter how much anyone dislikes Erika, there is no proof of her doing anything wrong.  Being disliked shouldn't be a fireable offense.  The audience is so fickle -- they love you one minute then hate you the next.

If you are arguing there is no proof of her doing anything CRIMINALLY wrong you are probably correct as I doubt either she or Tom will be prosecuted for criminal activity unless there are fraudulent loan documents or tax returns she signed. That's how they got Al Capone after all.

However there is ample proof that she is has civil liability and so she is on the hook in terms of disgorging all of her stolen money which at this point is close to $30 million dollars. Also she is going to be liable for all of the tax money which I think is now about $5 million dollars.

And of course most people have a "moral compass" so that people can be ethically and morally repugnant and corporations do sometimes exercise a "morals" provision and get rid of people who aren't criminals because they have breached the normative standards of decent people.

[sara1025]

On 9/14/2022 at 10:17 PM, hoodooznoodooz said:

A down-filled peplum is stupid.

Between that and the goofy smile walking into the restaurant, she looked like a moron.

[Stats Queen]

32 minutes ago, amarante said:

And of course most people have a "moral compass" so that people can be ethically and morally repugnant and corporations do sometimes exercise a "morals" provision and get rid of people who aren't criminals because they have breached the normative standards of decent people.

Not to mention threatening a coworker in addition to creating a hostile work environment. 

[Talented Tenth]

28 minutes ago, amarante said:

If you are arguing there is no proof of her doing anything CRIMINALLY wrong you are probably correct as I doubt either she or Tom will be prosecuted for criminal activity unless there are fraudulent loan documents or tax returns she signed. That's how they got Al Capone after all.

However there is ample proof that she is has civil liability and so she is on the hook in terms of disgorging all of her stolen money which at this point is close to $30 million dollars. Also she is going to be liable for all of the tax money which I think is now about $5 million dollars.

And of course most people have a "moral compass" so that people can be ethically and morally repugnant and corporations do sometimes exercise a "morals" provision and get rid of people who aren't criminals because they have breached the normative standards of decent people.

Nobody knows what's in Erika's heart.  People want to browbeat Erika into saying and acting how they want her to act, but that wouldn't be genuine.  I appreciate that she isn't playing to the viewers or trying to be liked.  I think Erika has a level of compassion but also had the rug pulled from under her.  Her lifestyle and marriage are gone and she is constantly being attacked on social media and in the press for something she didn't do.  I think the solution is clear.  It should be figured out how much money was misappropriated, Tom's assets should be liquidated and anything Erika has that was purchased by Tom should be turned over if there is a balance.  I do not believe she should pay out of her own earnings for money she didn't steal.

[RealHousewife]

18 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

Nobody knows what's in Erika's heart.  

I think I have a hunch.

[amarante]

37 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

Nobody knows what's in Erika's heart.  People want to browbeat Erika into saying and acting how they want her to act, but that wouldn't be genuine.  I appreciate that she isn't playing to the viewers or trying to be liked.  I think Erika has a level of compassion but also had the rug pulled from under her.  Her lifestyle and marriage are gone and she is constantly being attacked on social media and in the press for something she didn't do.  I think the solution is clear.  It should be figured out how much money was misappropriated, Tom's assets should be liquidated and anything Erika has that was purchased by Tom should be turned over if there is a balance.  I do not believe she should pay out of her own earnings for money she didn't steal.

Do you really think we don’t know what is in her heart. When someone shows you who they are, believe them. 

She has the right to be a hard hearted selfish bitch and anyone observing her behavior and statements has the right to pass judgment. 

[CallmeCray]

57 minutes ago, Talented Tenth said:

Nobody knows what's in Erika's heart.  People want to browbeat Erika into saying and acting how they want her to act, but that wouldn't be genuine.  I appreciate that she isn't playing to the viewers or trying to be liked.  I think Erika has a level of compassion but also had the rug pulled from under her.  Her lifestyle and marriage are gone and she is constantly being attacked on social media and in the press for something she didn't do.  I think the solution is clear.  It should be figured out how much money was misappropriated, Tom's assets should be liquidated and anything Erika has that was purchased by Tom should be turned over if there is a balance.  I do not believe she should pay out of her own earnings for money she didn't steal.

I could not even fathom insisting on keeping a gift that was bought with blood money.   

Erika announced EXACTLY what is in her heart when she said that the only person she cares about is herself.  Are you asserting that she was lying?  

Do you believe a person who will only “do the right thing” when a court orders her to do so has a good heart?  

You can applaud her for being herself all day long, but that honest portrayal is the answer to your “what if?”, devil’s advocate approach. Challenging the general opinion of this woman’s actions and words on national television is asking viewers to ignore everything they’ve seen and heard.  

She’s made her bed.

Edited September 17, 2022 by CallmeCray

[Cosmocrush]

1 hour ago, amarante said:

And of course most people have a "moral compass" so that people can be ethically and morally repugnant and corporations do sometimes exercise a "morals" provision and get rid of people who aren't criminals because they have breached the normative standards of decent people.

I'm thinking BRAVO mostly only hire RH who have breached the normative standards of decent people. 

[ladle]

2 hours ago, CharlizeCat said:

Or, maybe Kyle was promised a fat commission off sales from her friends. If Dorit and Diana were absent, well, that could make a big $$$ difference! 

A minor point, but I was actually wondering what the deal was in terms of paying for the hats. Since Kyle "invited" everyone to this event (and threw a hissy fit if they didn't show up) it seems like she should have treated the ladies to the hats. That, or the place perhaps comped the hats in exchange for the publicity. Otherwise that would be pretty tacky of Kyle... not that Decorum is any of these women's first names. 

[amarante]

15 minutes ago, ladle said:

A minor point, but I was actually wondering what the deal was in terms of paying for the hats. Since Kyle "invited" everyone to this event (and threw a hissy fit if they didn't show up) it seems like she should have treated the ladies to the hats. That, or the place perhaps comped the hats in exchange for the publicity. Otherwise that would be pretty tacky of Kyle... not that Decorum is any of these women's first names. 

My understanding is that whenever the name of a place is prominently shown, BRAVO receives some kind of promotional consideration and the housewives also receive something. 

As I recall, I once read that when the ladies don’t buy anything it is because they aren’t getting comped merchandise  

i think the ladies were comped with hats because I honestly don’t see Rinna actually laying $500 for a hat. You don’t generally see them buying anything in the super luxurious places like jewelry stores but generally often only in relatively inexpensive places. 

Since everything the women shill is done for money or freebies why would Kyle not negotiate a deal. I mean if all of the idiotic places to go on and on about, a store selling cowboy hats is low on the list. Even if you like hats how many cowboy hats does anyone need. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by amarante

[ladle]

4 minutes ago, amarante said:

Since everything the women shill is done for money or freebies why would Kyle not negotiate a deal.

Oh, 100%. Of all the things to critique Kyle for, it wouldn't be that! I was just saying it would have been tacky if she'd invited them and then expected them to pay for their own hats. 

[Surrealist]

On 9/16/2022 at 9:20 AM, RoseAllDay said:

I’ve gotten used to other customers walking around, having to see and overhear the embarrassing behavior these “classy” women often exhibit.

I would kill to be in the background watching the ridiculousness unfold.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Did they delete the part in which Erika accuses Crystal of having empathy only in order to look cool?

[Salacious Kitty]

46 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did they delete the part in which Erika accuses Crystal of having empathy only in order to look cool?

Well, that's a low, even for Erika. 

[amarante]

2 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did they delete the part in which Erika accuses Crystal of having empathy only in order to look cool?

Did this actually happen. I ask because I find EJ so loathsome that I often fast forward just like I do with the Lip Licker.

[NJbutNoHousewife]

On 9/15/2022 at 12:37 PM, njbchlover said:

Just goes to show how friggin' stupid these women are - so woefully uneducated on world history.  Mentioning the word "refugee" to someone who is from Bosnia, who lost their brother during a war seems pretty triggering. 

BUT - Diana laughed that off.  Diana, who gets offended at Sutton if Sutton were to say "Good Morning".  

Dorit and Erica were insensitive to use that word, but Diana had a perfect opportunity to enlighten and educate them about it (as she's done with Sutton and Garcelle) and she decided to laugh along with them.  

Wow, what a good point!!! 

[hoodooznoodooz]

43 minutes ago, amarante said:

Did this actually happen. I ask because I find EJ so loathsome that I often fast forward just like I do with the Lip Licker.

If I recall correctly, they were showing a clip of Erika snarling that at Crystal in previews, earlier in the season? 
 

The only reason I remembered is because they do show it in the After Show.

[SemiCharmedLife]

On 9/16/2022 at 11:35 AM, Surrealist said:

I didn't realize learning makeup application from your peers was a thing.

My friends never knew how to properly apply makeup, so I certainly wouldn't have taken makeup advice from them or any of my other peers. 😂

Yes! if I had a professional makeup artist applying my makeup on the daily, I would probably learn a lot of techniques and be even better at applying it than a typical teenager.  

[realityplease]

3 hours ago, Talented Tenth said:

Nobody knows what's in Erika's heart.  People want to browbeat Erika into saying and acting how they want her to act, but that wouldn't be genuine.  I appreciate that she isn't playing to the viewers or trying to be liked.  I think Erika has a level of compassion but also had the rug pulled from under her.  Her lifestyle and marriage are gone and she is constantly being attacked on social media and in the press for something she didn't do.  I think the solution is clear.  It should be figured out how much money was misappropriated, Tom's assets should be liquidated and anything Erika has that was purchased by Tom should be turned over if there is a balance.  I do not believe she should pay out of her own earnings for money she didn't steal.

You claim that nobody knows what's in Erika's heart and "She is constantly being attacked. . .for something she didn't do." How do YOU KNOW what she did/didn't do? NONE of us know the full story. Yet or maybe ever.  The show doesn't discuss her COMPLICITY with Tom (or not).  We're judging her REACTION to her changed circumstances & to victims.  And we, as do the housewives, hear bitter, uncaring, self-centered whining.  You think Erika's being "genuine" & that's to be appreciated. One way to see it but likely few agree.

Erika's lifestyle & marriage are gone because Tom was a decades long crook.  SHE married him, signed joint tax returns, reaped the benefit of (ill-gotten) gains & touted his legal prowess on the show. Tom's house of cards folded & took her lifestyle with it. Tough break. But she has to deal with it.  And she has in a way that lacks empathy or willingness to correct any wrong.  So she'll be judged for THAT.  (Complicit or not.) The housewives repeatedly tell her that no one's saying she's complicit with Tom. It's her REACTIONS to her changed circumstances & to those victimized by Tom that has people shaking their heads. 

She's bitter & wants to keep her life of luxury & possessions.  We see that.  We HEAR what's in Erika's heart from her own mouth in this episode.  Snarling about victims "dogging" her, admitting she cares only about herself, flaunting/wearing diamonds purchased with money Tom stole from a client trust account, whining about lost private jets & her reduced style of living, yet flaunting pretentious possessions & sucking up to rich "friends" in hope they'll buy her even more. 

She should get over herself.  Live long enough & many suffer changed circumstances of some sort & have to roll with it.  Or never get a high-flying lifestyle for a minute, much less decades. Even her current reduced lifestyle is a thousand times better than what she describes in her book as life pre-Tom as a wannabe actress working in a strip bar in NJ & a cocktail waitress in LA.  Not to the manor born.  Her gravy train crashed but she still lives better than many & has her health - something some of Tom's decades worth of victims do not because Tom stole money owed to them.  So yes, we'd like her to count her blessings & help right the wrong whether Tom's alone - or not. It's not in her heart to do it.  She's shown us that.   

And where in your "clear solution" is return of $25 million Tom put into EJ Global? You say she shouldn't pay out of her earnings what she didn't steal?  Don't think it works like that. And shouldn't.  Her company received stolen assets.  His liquidated assets & purchases for her (a purse, a stole?) will more likely still result in a deficiency against (so far) $30 million in liability and a $5 million tax lien. Maybe money's stashed offshore or who knows where given Tom's money grab goes back decades. (But you know Erika's not leading them to anything whether she knows or not!) 

[SemiCharmedLife]

9 hours ago, ladle said:

And, from the end of the episode, it looks like not all of them went to the club, right? Some of the women seemed to be headed back to the house. If Crystal, Sutton, and Garcelle weren’t in attendance I doubt we’ll ever get the straight story of what happened. 

I thought I saw Garcelle and Sheree in the van as they pulled away.  I'm sure Garcelle wasn't there to witness the blow up, because I've read info stating that.

[hoodooznoodooz]

8 minutes ago, realityplease said:

You claim that nobody knows what's in Erika's heart and "She is constantly being attacked. . .for something she didn't do." How do YOU KNOW what she did/didn't do? NONE of us know the full story. Yet or maybe ever.  The show doesn't discuss her COMPLICITY with Tom (or not).  We're judging her REACTION to her changed circumstances & to victims.  And we, as do the housewives, hear bitter, uncaring, self-centered whining.  You think Erika's being "genuine" & that's to be appreciated. One way to see it but likely few agree.

Erika's lifestyle & marriage are gone because Tom was a decades long crook.  SHE married him, signed joint tax returns, reaped the benefit of (ill-gotten) gains & touted his legal prowess on the show. Tom's house of cards folded & took her lifestyle with it. Tough break. But she has to deal with it.  And she has in a way that lacks empathy or willingness to correct any wrong.  So she'll be judged for THAT.  (Complicit or not.) The housewives repeatedly tell her that no one's saying she's complicit with Tom. It's her REACTIONS to her changed circumstances & to those victimized by Tom that has people shaking their heads. 

She's bitter & wants to keep her life of luxury & possessions.  We see that.  We HEAR what's in Erika's heart from her own mouth in this episode.  Snarling about victims "dogging" her, admitting she cares only about herself, flaunting/wearing diamonds purchased with money Tom stole from a client trust account, whining about lost private jets & her reduced style of living, yet flaunting pretentious possessions & sucking up to rich "friends" in hope they'll buy her even more. 

She should get over herself.  Live long enough & many suffer changed circumstances of some sort & have to roll with it.  Or never get a high-flying lifestyle for a minute, much less decades. Even her current reduced lifestyle is a thousand times better than what she describes in her book as life pre-Tom as a wannabe actress working in a strip bar in NJ & a cocktail waitress in LA.  Not to the manor born.  Her gravy train crashed but she still lives better than many & has her health - something some of Tom's decades worth of victims do not because Tom stole money owed to them.  So yes, we'd like her to count her blessings & help right the wrong whether Tom's alone - or not. It's not in her heart to do it.  She's shown us that.   

And where in your "clear solution" is return of $25 million Tom put into EJ Global? You say she shouldn't pay out of her earnings what she didn't steal?  Don't think it works like that. And shouldn't.  Her company received stolen assets.  His liquidated assets & purchases for her (a purse, a stole?) will more likely still result in a deficiency against (so far) $30 million in liability and a $5 million tax lien. Maybe money's stashed offshore or who knows where given Tom's money grab goes back decades. (But you know Erika's not leading them to anything whether she knows or not!) 

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. 

👏 👏 👏 👏 👏 

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, Talented Tenth said:

Nobody knows what's in Erika's heart.  People want to browbeat Erika into saying and acting how they want her to act, but that wouldn't be genuine.  I appreciate that she isn't playing to the viewers or trying to be liked.  I think Erika has a level of compassion but also had the rug pulled from under her.  Her lifestyle and marriage are gone and she is constantly being attacked on social media and in the press for something she didn't do.  I think the solution is clear.  It should be figured out how much money was misappropriated, Tom's assets should be liquidated and anything Erika has that was purchased by Tom should be turned over if there is a balance.  I do not believe she should pay out of her own earnings for money she didn't steal.

This sounds very reasonable, but it's exactly what Erika's angry about in the episode. A lot of her "earnings" came from Tom or were already spent. 

I agree that there's little point in trying to get Erika to act the way people think she should act. Her "showing compassion" doesn't really do anything to help the victims get their money back so I doubt that's a priority for them.

But those earrings are a perfect example of something Tom bought for her with money he stole and she's still declaring they're hers and pretending she's won court cases she hasn't won and implying other people are lying--and acting like this is all about people accusing her of doing the actual embezzling. It's not like she's just refusing to act sad and contrite on TV while doing her best to get the victims back their money. She's doing neither and saying she's doing both.

[Slakkie]

19 hours ago, Talented Tenth said:

No matter how much anyone dislikes Erika, there is no proof of her doing anything wrong.  Being disliked shouldn't be a fireable offense.  The audience is so fickle -- they love you one minute then hate you the next.

She was supposed to give those earrings to a third party and instead wore them to Aspen.  She also regularly used an Amex for Girardi Keese for her day to day purchases - anyone with a pea brain would say 'Hey Self, isn't it weird that the law firm is paying my bills?  I wonder why my husband's BUSINESS is taking care of my PERSONAL bills."

She is guilty at least of a lack of common sense and empathy.

[amarante]

14 hours ago, SemiCharmedLife said:

Yes! if I had a professional makeup artist applying my makeup on the daily, I would probably learn a lot of techniques and be even better at applying it than a typical teenager.  

Obviously Kim's specific complaint regarding not learning how to apply makeup is ridiculous because anyone interacting with professional makeup artists every day is going to learn how to apply makeup. Maybe not as a child but certainly as a tween or teen you are going to be interacting with them and what kind of idiot wouldn't ask them about technique when they sat in the chair. Many people pay for a makeup artist to give them a lesson.

I think what Kim is probably really complaining about is the lack of a normal childhood in which you bond with your girlfriends by putting on makeup; going shopping and even teaching each other how to put on a Tampax. Yeah the makeup might look weird - I look back and shudder at how awful my makeup must have been when I was 15 with weird shading and horribly applied false eyelashes and mascara clumped together but practice makes perfect. Of course today there are all kinds of tutorials on makeup application so you can acquire a skill set.

I am not sure any of the Richards sisters had anything resembling a *normal* childhood which probably accounts for their dysfunctionality. Kathy was literally pimped out by her mother in terms of finding a rich husband. Kim was the typical child actress who was supporting the family financially and there are almost no child actors who escape that particular purgatory. There are a few but they were extremely lucky to have a family that was very careful about providing them with as normal a childhood as possible AND they worked on sets in which the children were treated really well. Michael Landon was well known for having that kind of supportive set for the kids on Little House on The Prairie. Kyle ironically might have felt neglected but awful as she is, she does seem to be the most *normal* and functional of all of the sisters. 

[Mrs peel]

22 hours ago, amarante said:

If you are arguing there is no proof of her doing anything CRIMINALLY wrong you are probably correct as I doubt either she or Tom will be prosecuted for criminal activity unless there are fraudulent loan documents or tax returns she signed. That's how they got Al Capone after all.

However there is ample proof that she is has civil liability and so she is on the hook in terms of disgorging all of her stolen money which at this point is close to $30 million dollars. Also she is going to be liable for all of the tax money which I think is now about $5 million dollars.

And of course most people have a "moral compass" so that people can be ethically and morally repugnant and corporations do sometimes exercise a "morals" provision and get rid of people who aren't criminals because they have breached the normative standards of decent people.

Right.

Ruth Madoff was never accused of knowing anything about her husband’s Ponzi scheme, but lost most of their/her possessions, the money used to pay the victims.  She was left with $2MM - Pennie’s compared to what she was used to, but way more than most people in the world have.

erika benefited mightily from her husband’s theft.  And she participated - knowingly or unknowingly - through her LLC for her “career.”   If she had any morality, she would turn over the earrings and everything else.

she does NOT concede any personal liability by doing so, and her lawyers could easily put that in writing.  She doesn’t do that because she cares abou5 no one but herself.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, amarante said:

I think what Kim is probably really complaining about is the lack of a normal childhood in which you bond with your girlfriends by putting on makeup; going shopping and even teaching each other how to put on a Tampax. Yeah the makeup might look weird - I look back and shudder at how awful my makeup must have been when I was 15 with weird shading and horribly applied false eyelashes and mascara clumped together but practice makes perfect. Of course today there are all kinds of tutorials on makeup application so you can acquire a skill set.

Absolutely, but in this case she was literally saying she didn't know how to put on make up because she was prevented from learning how to do it the way Kyle did. So there were sort of two different issues going on there. Kim missing out on a lot of the every day experiences a regular kid would have is one thing. But then there was also Kim avoiding responsibility or saying other people have to do things for her because she's permenantly disabled due to her upbringing. The fact that she just automatically used it to explain why she needs to have a glam squad to go to a party showed how much she used her childhood as a universal excuse/protection even when it was completely nonsensical. 

Kyle does seem to be the most functional of the sisters and that does seem to come from her role as the least special/successful one. But neither of them seem to have thought through these things past the most superficial level. (Like Kyle admitting that she embraces being the competent one because it was a way to deal with her mother's judgment, or Kim thinking about the advantages of being the special one and maybe not realizing that would end when her career did.)

17 minutes ago, Mrs peel said:

erika benefited mightily from her husband’s theft.  And she participated - knowingly or unknowingly - through her LLC for her “career.”   If she had any morality, she would turn over the earrings and everything else.

I don't really know how I'd feel in Erika's shoes, I guess, but I keep feeling like I'd be so mortified when I thought of how utterly *wasteful* my life was once I knew I was using someone else's money. Especially that whole singing career. 

[amarante]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

Absolutely, but in this case she was literally saying she didn't know how to put on make up because she was prevented from learning how to do it the way Kyle did. So there were sort of two different issues going on there. Kim missing out on a lot of the every day experiences a regular kid would have is one thing. But then there was also Kim avoiding responsibility or saying other people have to do things for her because she's permenantly disabled due to her upbringing. The fact that she just automatically used it to explain why she needs to have a glam squad to go to a party showed how much she used her childhood as a universal excuse/protection even when it was completely nonsensical. 

Kyle does seem to be the most functional of the sisters and that does seem to come from her role as the least special/successful one. But neither of them seem to have thought through these things past the most superficial level. (Like Kyle admitting that she embraces being the competent one because it was a way to deal with her mother's judgment, or Kim thinking about the advantages of being the special one and maybe not realizing that would end when her career did.)

I don't really know how I'd feel in Erika's shoes, I guess, but I keep feeling like I'd be so mortified when I thought of how utterly *wasteful* my life was once I knew I was using someone else's money. Especially that whole singing career. 

I think Kim has a poor grasp of reality and so I don't really believe that she didn't know how to put on makeup. 

I just think that she finds any excuse to *blame* her past and find fault. 

Most child actors are very warped by their experience especially when their money was used to provide for the family. Even the ones who don't wind up dead or drugged out are damaged emotionally by the experience and Kim was I think severely damaged because Big Kathy did not provide any kind of "good" parenting to any of the girls.

[65mickey]

22 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did they delete the part in which Erika accuses Crystal of having empathy only in order to look cool?

I haven't seen it so far on the show but it was definitely shown in previews. Bravo has a bad habit of teasing these scenes for half of the season and then never showing them during the show. They did this with Andy being shown during the reunion asking Meredith Marks if she wore a plastic chest plate during the show because viewers were commenting on this. They showed this clip over and over before the reunion and then it was never mentioned during the reunion. I am still pissed off about that because I watched that entire 3 part reunion just to see that. 

[amarante]

2 hours ago, Mrs peel said:

Right.

Ruth Madoff was never accused of knowing anything about her husband’s Ponzi scheme, but lost most of their/her possessions, the money used to pay the victims.  She was left with $2MM - Pennie’s compared to what she was used to, but way more than most people in the world have.

erika benefited mightily from her husband’s theft.  And she participated - knowingly or unknowingly - through her LLC for her “career.”   If she had any morality, she would turn over the earrings and everything else.

she does NOT concede any personal liability by doing so, and her lawyers could easily put that in writing.  She doesn’t do that because she cares abou5 no one but herself.

I agree with you completely but also one of the reasons why Ruth was allowed to keep approximately $1 million is because she had inherited that amount from her parents years ago and so there was an agreement that she could keep it. 

Obviously it is all relative since $1 million is a lot of money to many people but the reality is that it is the minimum that is needed for retirement for a normal middle class lifestyle. Many middle class people have managed to save that amount through 401 and other investments.

Also Ruth had the good grace to go quietly away and purchase a very modest apartment in Connecticut. She never whined or complained or did anything that suggested that she was a "victim".

If one believes in karma she also suffered more than the loss of her money as one son committed suicide and the other died a few years later of cancer.

Edited September 18, 2022 by amarante

[hoodooznoodooz]

50 minutes ago, amarante said:

I agree with you completely but also one of the reasons why Ruth was allowed to keep approximately $1 million is because she had inherited that amount from her parents years ago and so there was an agreement that she could keep it. 

Obviously it is all relative since $1 million is a lot of money to many people but the reality is that it is the minimum that is needed for retirement for a normal middle class lifestyle. Many middle class people have managed to save that amount through 401 and other investments.

Also Ruth had the good grace to go quietly away and purchase a very modest apartment in Connecticut. She never whined or complained or did anything that suggested that she was a "victim".

If one believes in karma she also suffered more than the loss of her money as one son committed suicide and the other died a few years later of cancer.

Excellent points!!!

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, amarante said:

I think Kim has a poor grasp of reality and so I don't really believe that she didn't know how to put on makeup. 

I just think that she finds any excuse to *blame* her past and find fault. 

Oh, I agree. I'm sure Kim has put make-up on plenty of times by herself. She just thought nothing of saying something to pretend this was another thing she was deprived of without thinking it through enough to remember that make-up was something you get more of on a movie set than a high school! Which is all part of Kim's general damage from her upbringing. (Not the make-up skills or lack thereof, but the way she deals with her life and other people.)

3 hours ago, amarante said:

Also Ruth had the good grace to go quietly away and purchase a very modest apartment in Connecticut. She never whined or complained or did anything that suggested that she was a "victim".

Yes, great example. She had the sense to keep her head down and be grateful it wasn't worse. And this was without having victims front and center who were in pain and needed the money for surgery.

[tranquilidade]

On 9/17/2022 at 1:48 PM, Talented Tenth said:

No matter how much anyone dislikes Erika, there is no proof of her doing anything wrong.  Being disliked shouldn't be a fireable offense.  The audience is so fickle -- they love you one minute then hate you the next.

I always disliked her, from the start.  She is a fraud all the way through.  She lied about her marriage to Tom and pretended it was something it wasn't and now wants everyone to see her as the wife done wrong.  She entered a deal thinking she could get the upper hand, and probably did squirrel away money that she stole from him-- which he stole from victims.  Anyone so self preserving and hard would of course do that. 

Like I said, I never liked her.  But that's just me. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by tranquilidade

[ZettaK]

On 9/17/2022 at 4:05 PM, Talented Tenth said:

Nobody knows what's in Erika's heart.  People want to browbeat Erika into saying and acting how they want her to act, but that wouldn't be genuine.  I appreciate that she isn't playing to the viewers or trying to be liked.  I think Erika has a level of compassion but also had the rug pulled from under her.  Her lifestyle and marriage are gone and she is constantly being attacked on social media and in the press for something she didn't do.  I think the solution is clear.  It should be figured out how much money was misappropriated, Tom's assets should be liquidated and anything Erika has that was purchased by Tom should be turned over if there is a balance.  I do not believe she should pay out of her own earnings for money she didn't steal.

I think we know what is in Erika's heart.

She viciously attacked Sutton and Crystal for exposing the truth, and contradicting her narrative (she is the persecuted divorcee who is a victim of circumstances, and of the people who are suing her, but not so much of her husband who she doesn't even mention anymore). She also convinced other HWs to attack, and ice Sutton out.

She wore the earrings which were purchased with funds from clients' accounts in Aspen in defiance (I wanted to use another term) of the (real) victims, the courts, and common decency. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by ZettaK

[Pi237]

Ericka keeps saying she’s ‘fighting for her life.’ No, people in plane crashes and fires fight for their lives.  She’s fighting for her Money.  

[JenE4]

2 hours ago, Pi237 said:

Ericka keeps saying she’s ‘fighting for her life.’ No, people in plane crashes and fires fight for their lives.  She’s fighting for her Money.  

She’s “fighting for her life[style].” Only this bitch would act like it’s life or death that she can’t have yet another bigger and gaudier Cartier jaguar ring and lives in a $9,500/month hovel. Thank God through the charity of others she can still fly on private jets and doesn’t (shudder) have to fly commercial! The horror! Though, the way these women pull out all the stops in these high-end designer outfits for eating dinner at someone’s house, I can imagine how utterly humiliating it must be to be seen in last season’s wear*. No wonder why she’s like I am no longer for this world.

*ETA: How long does one need to wait before a designer outfit goes from outdated to “vintage”? Erika and her glam squad must look through her rooms of clothes, counting down the days before she’s back on top, baby.

Edited September 19, 2022 by JenE4

[Nicmar]

On 9/16/2022 at 10:28 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Yeah, her tone policing to Kyle was really annoying.  They're both adults and can curse whenever they want.  It's aggravating.

I thought Kathy was getting after Kyle because she was cursing a lot.

[Hiyo]

Quote

I can't imagine her take on waiting in line for bathroom stalls with 1-ply toilet paper

Probably not as bad as someone bring Dorit the wrong coke straw, but who knows...

Quote

Lisa Rinna has dogged after the Kardashians for years.

If she could Rinna would probably skin Kris Jenner and wear her.

Quote

Dorit replies, “Morals don’t make compasses work; magnets do!”

Magnets are just so chic.

Quote

Nobody knows what's in Erika's heart. 

I think at this point Ericka has yet to prove she has one.

Edited September 19, 2022 by Hiyo