S06.E12: Waterworks

[JudyObscure]

9 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

And yeah Kim's life in Florida was as dull as I expected and probably a fate worse then jail being around a bunch Karens and such.

They seemed like nice enough women to me.  I'm not crazy about TV writers who assume anyone who doesn't  have a glamourous job is boring and stupid. When did we ever see Kim having scintillating conversations with women friends back in Albuquerque? How is doc review more interesting than figuring the specs on a sprinkler system? Why are frumpy  clothes required at her new job?  Why does being undercover mean no longer allowed to have opinions or a sense of humor? Why does dark hair equal ugly? (Yeah, as a brunette, I've always resented that.)  

Kim's break down on the bus was the saddest thing ever in a really sad series.  I hope it was partly relief and not all despair.  Surely someone as brilliant as Kim can find a new career that challenges her and a new boyfriend because... just no.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

The dread I was feeling over the end overwhelmed any appreciation for VG's abilities and the story being told.  There was a lot of emptiness which is a great metaphor for the lives of the protagonists in the tragedy being spun by the BCS wizards.  Mostly everything and anyone who had any contact with the gorgeous Blue know only a meaningless existence.

The issue of the signed oath by Kim may have been the affidavit she submitted to the DA.

For my  money, Kim is absolutely guilty of felonies after the fact of various criminal acts.  I also say the frauds she committed on Kevin's behalf were felonious.  I do agree with those who believe that ordinarily, a Kim would never face indictment, though.

I was especially sad to see the payment capture machine where Mike once toiled.

The voice of the Alert lady seemed especially professional.  Has that actor actually done such narration IRL?

Of course the greatest sin Gene committed in Marion's eyes was invoking a Nippy to perpetrate a fraud.  My mother would have totally had the same reaction.

Kim is not worthy of finding peace.  None of us are, imo.  However, anyone engaging in a sincere redemptive course has a big fan in me.  I judge her actions to be pure in this sense.  I still don't like her.  Not yet, anyway.

I also accept Cheryl's mourning Howard.  We often do not realize what we had until it is taken from us.  I saw a deeply wounded lady as Kim purged her guilt.

It is interesting to me that we had two major cons by Gene blown up by pure happenstance.  So many shows simply force us to accept that our intrepid heroes are just that smart and elegant to avoid bad luck.  Well, Gene was not.  He was too blinded and his hubris and pride got him.  Of course, he was being driven by a guilty sub-conscience.  

The teaser with the burned out shell of an Esteem sure worked.  I am extremely curious about it.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Lonesome Rhodes

[Chaos Theory]

I think people mistake real world justice for tv justice.   Sometimes on television justice is more symbolic then reality based.  It brings me back to the the ending of The Americans and 

Spoiler

The Jennings parents survived but had to go back to Russia without their kids

I think writers on tv like to circumvent prison as an easy answer.    Most of the the BB crowed avoided prison either by death or by deals.    Even Skylar White apparently successfully made that hinky deal by giving the location of Hank and his partner (I forget his name now) bodies.     But I am sure her son and sister are going to hate her forever for it.    So there is that.

As for Kim and her boring gray life.  I can see that being a self imposed unintentional punishment because it is the exact opposite life that Kim wanted.  

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

They seemed like nice enough women to me.  I'm not crazy about TV writers who assume anyone who doesn't  have a glamourous job is boring and stupid. When did we ever see Kim having scintillating conversations with women friends back in Albuquerque? How is doc review more interesting than figuring the specs on a sprinkler system? Why are frumpy  clothes required at her new job?  Why does being undercover mean no longer allowed to have opinions or a sense of humor? Why does dark hair equal ugly? (Yeah, as a brunette, I've always resented that.)  

Of course all of this is true if it is what you want out of life.   If it is chosen for you or set up as a self imposed punishment it is a fate worse then jail.   Just like people who are forced to go to medical school because their family are doctors even though they hate the sight of blood.  For Kim, her entire life was about becoming a lawyer.  She was like Jimmy in alot of ways.   But Jimmy with a conscience.    So putting her in the suburbs with no outlet is a fate worse then jail.  

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I also accept Cheryl's mourning Howard.  We often do not realize what we had until it is taken from us.  I saw a deeply wounded lady as Kim purged her guilt.

Cheryl and Howard were married and even if it wasn't a good marriage it wasn't an abusive one either.  It was more a passionless one.   I am guessing Cheryl spent six years going back looking at all the moments Howard tried to reach out to her with the cappuccino machine thing and maybe tried to see if there was cocaine moments that she missed.   Only to find nothing and then to have Kim walk back into her life with a confession.   Even if Kim never goes to jail this confession clears Howard of being a drug addict.   Even if his body is never found which Kim says is probable since the only people who know where he is buried are dead.  His name has been publicly cleared which is what Cheryl likely wants.  She can file a lawsuit against Kim but Kim never took any of the Sandpiper money so I don't think she has anything to sue for.  

I think this was a redemption arc for Kim.  She has a soul and this was her trying to restore it.  But for Jimmy this was him proving what everyone,  Chuck,  Howard....everyone has been saying about him from the start was true.   He will never change.  He can't change.   He will always bee Slippin Jimmy.  

I don't think he wants to be anything else.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[Bannon]

16 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

The dread I was feeling over the end overwhelmed any appreciation for VG's abilities and the story being told.  There was a lot of emptiness which is a great metaphor for the lives of the protagonists in the tragedy being spun by the BCS wizards.  Mostly everything and anyone who had any contact with the gorgeous Blue know only a meaningless existence.

The issue of the signed oath by Kim may have been the affidavit she submitted to the DA.

For my  money, Kim is absolutely guilty of felonies after the fact of various criminal acts.  I also say the frauds she committed on Kevin's behalf were felonious.  I do agree with those who believe that ordinarily, a Kim would never face indictment, though.

I was especially sad to see the payment capture machine where Mike once toiled.

The voice of the Alert lady seemed especially professional.  Has that actor actually done such narration IRL?

Of course the greatest sin Gene committed in Marion's eyes was invoking a Nippy to perpetrate a fraud.  My mother would have totally had the same reaction.

Kim is not worthy of finding peace.  None of us are, imo.  However, anyone engaging in a sincere redemptive course has a big fan in me.  I judge her actions to be pure in this sense.  I still don't like her.  Not yet, anyway.

I also accept Cheryl's mourning Howard.  We often do not realize what we had until it is taken from us.  I saw a deeply wounded lady as Kim purged her guilt.

It is interesting to me that we had two major cons by Gene blown up by pure happenstance.  So many shows simply force us to accept that our intrepid heroes are just that smart and elegant to avoid bad luck.  Well, Gene was not.  He was too blinded and his hubris and pride got him.  Of course, he was being driven by a guilty sub-conscience.  

The teaser with the burned out shell of an Esteem sure worked.  I am extremely curious about it.

In an episode filled with great scenes (and, imho, the two previous episodes were needed to build the foundation for this episode), the most impactful, to me, may have been the scene with Cheryl. I kept dreading Kim uttering the cliche of Howard not suffering, and then, when she inevitably did, Cheryl's reaction, writing and acting, was perfect; didn't suffer!? How dare you!?

That scene, of course, was critical to the scene of Kim's breakdown on the shuttle bus,, one of the best dialogue-free scenes of grief I've watched in t.v. or movies. Just great writing.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Bannon

[Sailorgirl26]

7 hours ago, Scout Finch said:

That was Emilio in the office. Jesse was talking about an earlier time when Saul helped Combo.

And in BB when Jesse takes Walt to meet the "criminal" lawyer for the first time, he specifically references how Saul got Emilio off from his charges. The Kim/Jesse interaction was about that and helped cement Saul as the lawyer he and Walt would need for the inevitable run-ins with the police based on their business. 

[BC4ME]

I loved the contrast between the cops innocently trying to eat their food with no original intentions of bothering Jeffy and then cut to Jeffy in the cab just absolutely losing his shit.

Also, Marion's description of Jeffy getting in trouble in Albuquerque sounded way different than I had anticipated. Public drunkenness and public urination? That's not exactly the "falling in with the wrong crowd" I was expecting. No wonder he wasn't up to "getting in on the action."

Of course I don't know if he was just being a dumb ass and crashed his cab or if he did it to distract from Gene's break in. Knowing that might change my opinion on how up the the challenge he was.  But he comes off as not bright.   

[Ottis]

11 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

I am cringing, this is hard to watch.

I didn't find any of this ep hard to watch. I found segments vey slow, while appreciating the artistry as the threads came together. Maybe the closest I came to hard to watch is cringing when Kim and her doofus boyfriend discussed Miracle Whip like the fate of the galaxy depended on it. I cringed because my SO's family is that way, and I reacted here the same way I react with them (in my head, anyway): "Get on with it!"

Overall, mostly the same thoughts as before: What a waste of talent for both Kim and Jimmy. Seeing details of that waste doesn't change much. Now we just await the tool of his (and her?) final downfall.

[SimplexFish]

9 hours ago, Colorado David said:

i know right?!? when he was gathering up the phone line cord in each hand, i was so scared he was going to choke her out.

I think he would have...its just the operator came online listening and Marion said his name.

[gallimaufry]

Terrific episode. I do think Jimmy was intending, at least subconsciously, to get caught. I think it's a mirror of the break-in at the start of S4 where he's kind of amazed and scandalised that it's so easy for him to get away with whatever he wants. It's like, if these idiots can't catch me when I do this, maybe I do deserve to get away with it. A bit like when he keeps throwing the ball until it hits the pillar.

It's interesting that they've vagued up how willing to murder Saul is. Twice he looks ready to kill, and in really sickening ways, but pulls back. We know he's advised murder as a strategy but as far as we know he's never actually gone down that road - it's all bravado. I'm not sure that makes much difference though as with slightly different circumstances it would be easy to see him murdering and that's horrifying.

Hope that's not the end of Kim. Don't think it is but it easily could be. I would have liked to see her scene with Ericsson but it was right to play the same material with Cheryl. Her material was excellent - it's not that her world would be everyone's idea of hell but for her, so contemptuous of high status people and gullible marks, it really is the deepest pit she could devise. In some respects, I don't want her to face legal punishment as I think this would aost be a relief to her and would at least offer some semblance of closure. I think she needs to find that on her own terms. The idea that the system she spent so long defending, upholding and ultimately betraying can't or won't hold her to justice feels grimly poetic.

That said, surely not mentioning the phone call could open her up to prosecution as it was a lead on Jimmy she didn't report.

Playing the flash of colour from the Saul as was nice but I'm not sure overall whether keeping Gene's world black and white has been for the best. I love b&w films but this is one of the most beautiful shows and I'd like to see some of that before the end.

The Jesse scene was fine if indulgent. I think the best bit was the Emilio cameo which to me was sufficient to help those worlds. I did think she was going to make the criminal lawyer distinction and in some respects I think that would have worked but I'm glad they didn't as it would have been on the nose overall! What I find fascinating is her statement that when she knew him, he was good. When? I mean, when she asked if Jimmy thought they were wicked, did she still see Jimmy as good?

I do think there's a lot of great stuff they've left on the table and while there's one more episode, I feel like we're really going to be in Gene's world for the rest. Nothing more of Gus, nor Mike, nothing of Kim's backstory, nothing of how the ABQ legal community has responded to Jimmy and Kim.

Intrigued to see how this ends...

[peeayebee]

6 hours ago, MBayGal said:

But also, Jeff had lived in ABQ and been arrested there.  She was still paying off hr Discover bill from his lawyer. Maybe Saul was his lawyer.

Then Jeff would have said so when he first talked to him back at the mall. I don't see how Saul could have been his lawyer.

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

They seemed like nice enough women to me.  I'm not crazy about TV writers who assume anyone who doesn't  have a glamourous job is boring and stupid. When did we ever see Kim having scintillating conversations with women friends back in Albuquerque? How is doc review more interesting than figuring the specs on a sprinkler system? Why are frumpy  clothes required at her new job?  Why does being undercover mean no longer allowed to have opinions or a sense of humor? Why does dark hair equal ugly? (Yeah, as a brunette, I've always resented that.)  

I get what you're saying, but in this case the complete change of appearance makes sense for the character. Kim did a 180 on her looks, her behavior, her clothes. Her life. She was still, apparently, good at her job, but in every other way she looked like a milquetoast. 

I liked how she really seemed to fit in, that she didn't seem to be pretending or to be disdainful of any of the people in her life. 

Once again I've lost track of the timeline -- How long has Kim been in Florida?

4 minutes ago, gallimaufry said:

Twice he looks ready to kill, and in really sickening ways, but pulls back.

The choice of weapons was interesting. First the jar of ashes of a beloved dog, which in my mind echoes the beginning of his whole Marion scam as well as simply being a shitty way to knock someone on the head. And then the phone cord of Marion's, which was the literal line to how Marion discovered Gene's true identity. 

Quote

What I find fascinating is her statement that when she knew him, he was good. When? I mean, when she asked if Jimmy thought they were wicked, did she still see Jimmy as good?

I took that more literally, since she was answering Jesse's question about Saul being a good lawyer or not. Yes, when she knew him he was a good lawyer. But of course, as you suggested, there was another meaning. And I think she did think he was good at heart back then. We saw that many times. 

Re the "I trusted you" line: I too wondered if/when that was said before. It seems a common enough line. Instead of someone saying this to Jimmy/Saul (which is of course possible), I wonder if Jimmy/Saul had said this to someone. Maybe Chuck? I just can't remember.

I love when they were signing the divorce papers, Francesca came in and move the scales of justice statue to the side like it was someone's old sandwich or something. It held no meaning in those offices.

[SimplexFish]

30 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Once again I've lost track of the timeline -- How long has Kim been in Florida?

She left Jimmy and ABQ 6 years prior...

Edited August 9, 2022 by SimplexFish

[BC4ME]

I'd also like to comment that wearing gloves doesn't do any good if you're going to drink alcohol and leave your DNA at the scene.

I have thought throughout this whole last crime spree that Gene is just self sabotaging, unconsciously or not, until he gets caught. And his efforts seem increasingly more blatant. All his carelessness in this episode just screams how far can I go. How far do I have to go? Then he just lets Marion push the button on the alert device.

Edited August 11, 2022 by BC4ME

[Starchild]

44 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Re the "I trusted you" line: I too wondered if/when that was said before. It seems a common enough line. Instead of someone saying this to Jimmy/Saul (which is of course possible), I wonder if Jimmy/Saul had said this to someone. Maybe Chuck? I just can't remember.

Well he's been betrayed by people he trusted several times. Perhaps that's what stopped him, knowing how that felt.

[lilysmom]

11 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

Jimmy seemed a lot more upset, excited and much louder in last weeks phonebooth scene than how we heard him on the phone in Kim's office in this episode, didn't seem to match up to me

My take was that the outburst came AFTER his conversation with her when she hung up. He definitely heated up as the conversation took place though.

[bad things are bad]

11 hours ago, Blakeston said:

That woman saying she'd call the police if she saw a teenager buying a pacifier has to make her one of the most unbearable people in the whole BB/BCS universe.

And you know Kim is screaming inwardly  NO NO, that would not be legally actionable!

[Simon Boccanegra]

On Kim's life in Florida: It's not really that it's such a bad life; it's just that she seemed to have turned her light way down. If you think of Kim as we saw her in most of the series as Kim on 8 (legal dynamo. up to any challenge in several kinds of law, seemingly respected by all), and then her corruption in season 6 was an uninhibited "Kim on 10" in the worst way, in Florida she's Kim on 2 or 3. She's not venturing opinions on anything. She's barely present in conversations. She's dressed and styled as if to escape notice, and there's no trace of her dry wit in her agreeable monosyllabic replies. At her job, she's just showing up, taking a place behind the partitions.

She's probably still valued and liked at the sprinkler place, because a Kim Wexler just idling, not challenging herself or trying to stand out, is more than good enough to get by in that context. But as others have said, she was a shell of herself. I found it an effective "Cinnabon equivalent" for this character.  

11 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

Jimmy seemed a lot more upset, excited and much louder in last weeks phonebooth scene than how we heard him on the phone in Kim's office in this episode, didn't seem to match up to me

Most of his anger and excitement came after the call had ended, with the smashing of the booth glass. This week, we were getting him as Kim would over the phone, minus the animated gestures. Last week, we couldn't hear him.

(Well. The people who saw the German dub could. It that version, the German voice actor covering Jimmy/Saul/Gene was made too clearly audible over the trucks. There was a Reddit thread on it, and the dialogue when back-translated into English matched what the rest of us eventually heard this week. "Why don't you turn yourself in? They can only hang me once!" et cetera.) 

[jnymph]

So many comments on Kim’s…. Hair? Let’s talk about Jimmy’s comb over.

Give Rhea the Emmy.  The breakdown on the bus was masterful.  Plus I’m still speculating on exactly where her tears were directed. My instinct says she’s mourning the loss of Jimmy. He’s gone. 

[SimplexFish]

Spoiler

According to Bryan Cranston he still still has a one on one scene left with Saul, not sure how it would/why it would fit in at this point but honestly neither did the other two scenes.  He has been correct so far with his statement of one scene together and one scene with Jessie, so who knows. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by SimplexFish

[Zmanda]

I definitely saw Kim as not willing to form an opinion on anything. Not even her car visor, when she put it up, it was plain silver. Then they panned across the parking lot to everyone else who had a sports team on theirs or whatever.   That was a masterful shot to show just how unlikely she is to push the envelope. 
 

When she broke down on the bus, man, that was the saddest thing I’ve ever seen. Yes, she did this to herself, at any point she could have stopped the con.  I still don’t think she deserves this unhappy life.  I hope she starts to forgive herself.

[lilysmom]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

They seemed like nice enough women to me.  I'm not crazy about TV writers who assume anyone who doesn't  have a glamourous job is boring and stupid. When did we ever see Kim having scintillating conversations with women friends back in Albuquerque? How is doc review more interesting than figuring the specs on a sprinkler system? Why are frumpy  clothes required at her new job?  Why does being undercover mean no longer allowed to have opinions or a sense of humor? Why does dark hair equal ugly? (Yeah, as a brunette, I've always resented that.)  

Kim's break down on the bus was the saddest thing ever in a really sad series.  I hope it was partly relief and not all despair.  Surely someone as brilliant as Kim can find a new career that challenges her and a new boyfriend because... just no. 

Your points are all completely valid! Kim is leading a life right now that is a normal life style for many people. I thought the point was to compare her existence to how she used to  live.  At HHM, I bet they never discussed the pros and cons of Dukes vs Miracle Whip. (My own family has had the discussion of Dukes vs Hellmann's Mayo, so I'm not being condescending.) I saw her doing parallel work, like copying info from binders and checking details. Just very different types of work from what she did before. She showed the same, efficient work ethic she did as a lawyer. 

For me, the biggest question that remains is, if you were going to make all the changes that Kim did to remain under the radar (clothes, hair style, personality type) why would you NOT change your name, too?

[Sailorgirl26]

Two powerful visuals I picked up on last night that I haven't seen anyone mention --

The reflection of color in Gene's glasses when he was looking, I believe at the watches, he was stealing from NotWalt. Reflections of Saul. The color reflection was yellow -- I just can't remember definitively what he was looking at. 

Edit: One bit of color appears in the Gene timeline: when Gene sees that Marion has been watching one of the old Saul Goodman commercials, they are reflected in his glasses in all their gaudy color, a splash of his old life coming back to ruin his new one. (from Rolling Stone recap). 

Even though the scene was black and white, the puzzle Kim was working on was completely blank. It was all white pieces. No image whatsoever -- yet another visual representation of her  absolutely bland, no opinion, no viewpoint, no perspective, no nothing Florida life. 

AVClub says Kim's breakdown may be the best and most moving acting in the show's history: https://www.avclub.com/better-call-saul-review-season-6-episode-12-waterwor-1849388333

Let's hope the Emmy folks pick up on that too.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Sailorgirl26

[Starchild]

I didn't think I'd ever feel sorry for Kim again, but that bus scene broke my heart.

[anoninrva]

Kim's boyfriend reminded me of Todd for some reason.  Thankfully, it was not the same character.

[BC4ME]

40 minutes ago, jnymph said:

So many comments on Kim’s…. Hair? Let’s talk about Jimmy’s comb over.

Kim's wig was so bad that I actually think it must mean something. It really stands out and not just the color.

[Madhattter]

Did anyone else see that while her boring boyfriend was watching the Amazing Race, Kim was working on a puzzle that seemed to have the pieces flipped over? When I paused the screen, there was no imagery on the puzzle, which certainly helps put the pieces together. I assumed she was flexing her intellect and relieving her boredom by making the puzzle more challenging for herself by doing it "blind." 

[Simon Boccanegra]

Gilligan, EW interview on "Waterworks":  

"[H]ere in the moment where they're on the phone together, she has turned into something else, too. She's kind of dead from the neck up, purposely so. And by the way, there's nothing wrong living down in Florida working for a sprinkler factory; there's nothing intrinsically wrong with that. It's just [that] she has a legal calling and she's denied herself that calling. She's denied herself a great many things. And when this grotesque caricature of the person she used to love calls her up and berates her, I think she thinks about her [sic] for a few days, and then she thinks, 'You know what? As unpleasant as the messenger may be, the message is probably correct. I need to pull the Band-aid off here. I need to atone for my sins. I need to come to life here and do the right thing.' So I think that's where that comes from."

https://ew.com/tv/better-call-saul-vince-gilligan-on-waterworks-episode/

[Wiendish Fitch]

Damn, a part of me thought for sure Saul was going to strangle Marion with that phone cord. I'm fairly certain now he was either just planning to tie her up with it, or was just trying to intimidate her, but it doesn't matter, because that is a sick thing to do to anyone, especially an elderly woman who trusted you. Fuck you, buddy.

Some have been questioning Marion's motivation for Googling (oops, I mean, asking Jeeves) "con man" and "Albuquerque", and if I were to fill in the blanks, I wonder if there was something else about Saul that tipped her off that we may have overlooked? I think there's way more to Marion than meets the eye; maybe we'll find out, maybe we won't, but I don't think she's nearly as frail and naive as she appears. 

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 Why does dark hair equal ugly? (Yeah, as a brunette, I've always resented that.)  

Seriously! I'm old enough to remember Abercrombie & Fitch's heyday, and I still loathe their popular shirt that read, "Last Night I Had a Nightmare I was Brunette". * Kim's new hair didn't even look that bad, and at least she lost the damn Cindy Brady ponytail. 

Really, the worst thing about Kim's new life is her dumb oaf of a boyfriend, but even he doesn't seem that awful. 

I agree it's baffling that Kim didn't change her name, but maybe she desperately wants to be caught, or at least not be completely unreachable to Saul. 

*Before anyone calls me out, no, that was hardly A&F's most offensive shirt (far, far from it), but I can still be bothered by it. 

[scenario]

I sympathize with Kim. She has lost all self esteem. She is now incapable of making any sort of decision.

IMO. Whenever she gets in a situation where she has any sort of power at all it goes to her head. She's terrified now of making even the simplest decision because that might be the one that releases the monster in her. 

I'd bet she's with the first guy who asked her out. She probably doesn't even like him. She has so low a self esteem she doesn't feel she has a right to say know to anything at all. She's just bland and lifeless now. 

I don't have any problem with the people around her. They are good people. It's Kim whose such a weak woman who used to be so strong. 

[Simon Boccanegra]

I suspect part of what makes this guy acceptable company to Florida Kim is that he's incurious. If he asks any questions at all about her past, they would be very easy questions to deflect. He'd accept the surface she presents and not look for more. 

A guy who actually intrigued her would have her running in the other direction.

[peeayebee]

53 minutes ago, jnymph said:

Give Rhea the Emmy.  The breakdown on the bus was masterful.  Plus I’m still speculating on exactly where her tears were directed. My instinct says she’s mourning the loss of Jimmy. He’s gone. 

I guess that's possible. I saw it as being about everything. Playing a part in Howard's murder. Ruining her life. Enabling Jimmy who then played a part in ruining people's lives. Giving up the law, which she loved and excelled at and was able to help so many people. Living a life that has so little meaning. Sprinkler systems. What do they do that's important? Keep golf courses green? Talking mayo vs Miracle Whip with a boyfriend who is a dimwit. (Calling himself neutral Sweden when it's Switzerland.) Having inane conversation after inane conversation with him and, it appears, others in her life. There's no substance in her life. And she did it.

She must realize that if she hadn't pushed Jimmy to pull the scam on Howard, things would be so much better now. I suppose Lalo would still be in their lives, but at least Howard would still be alive.

[tennisgurl]

Oh yeah, Marian for the win! What a great episode, possibly one of the best episodes in the shows entire impressive run of amazing television. What a poetic way to bring down Saul, after years making his bread and butter working with elderly people struggling with technology, he is busted by an elderly lady using technology. I knew they wouldn't use Carol Burnett in such a minor role, that last scene was an absolute killer. One of Saul's biggest flaws has always been that he underestimates people and always thinks he's the smartest person in the room, and now he's been found out by a lady he clearly just saw as an easy mark who was much more perceptive than he gave her credit for. The old trip and fall gag ended up leading to his fall in the end, via Life Alert, its just so perfect. 

We finally check in with Kim, who's Omaha is Florida. Her life isn't horrible, especially considering what she got away with, but its a bleak, meaningless existence of wasted potential and miracle whip, spending her days with a boring boyfriend, a gaggle of Karen's, and no ponytail of power. Even worse, she knows that this is a purgatory of her own making, that she threw away her whole life and everything she loved that gave her existence meaning, all for a stupid thrill that got an innocent man killed, which is clearly still eating away at her. So many great acting moments from Rhea Seehorn, although my favorites were probably Kim looking around the three ringed circus of Saul Goodman's office in despair at what Jimmy has become, and then when Cheryl read her for filth after reading her confession. Howard's actual death may have been quick, but he absolutely suffered before he died, and that was all on Kim and Jimmy. They didn't mean for him to actually die, but they absolutely did mean for him to hurt.

I certainly never expected to see Kim and Jesse sharing a smoke together, despite Aaron Paul being clearly much older than he was during Breaking Bad (although they did an admirable job at hiding it through his hoodie and dark lighting) he really falls right back into playing Jesse like he was in Breaking Bad yesterday. Kim gets to hear what people think about Saul now, and its nothing she's happy about. He's not a criminal lawyer like he was before, he's a criminal lawyer. 

Waterworks ended up having so many meanings. Its obviously a reference to the place where Kim works now, but also both Kim and Saul trying not to break down crying over the messes they have found themselves in, the rain pouring down as Kim and Jesse talk about Saul, and the way that everything is crashing down around Saul in his Gene life, as everything comes down on top of him like rain.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

10 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Prosecute what case? For trying to ruin Howard’s reputation? What kind of charges would those be? She didn’t have any part in killing him.

She helped drug him, at the very least.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

9 hours ago, MBayGal said:

But also, Jeff had lived in ABQ and been arrested there.  She was still paying off hr Discover bill from his lawyer. Maybe Saul was his lawyer.

Jeff would surely have mentioned that to Saul if it were true.

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, lilysmom said:

Your points are all completely valid! Kim is leading a life right now that is a normal life style for many people. I thought the point was to compare her existence to how she used to  live.  At HHM, I bet they never discussed the pros and cons of Dukes vs Miracle Whip. (My own family has had the discussion of Dukes vs Hellmann's Mayo, so I'm not being condescending.) I saw her doing parallel work, like copying info from binders and checking details. Just very different types of work from what she did before. She showed the same, efficient work ethic she did as a lawyer. 

For me, the biggest question that remains is, if you were going to make all the changes that Kim did to remain under the radar (clothes, hair style, personality type) why would you NOT change your name, too?

She left the state of New Mexico right after her divorce and had nothing to do with the Saul Goodman crimes after that, so didn't need a new identity. She changed up everything else in her life and in my view, has had unrelenting guilt that prevents her from allowing herself pleasure. Maybe some comfort and distractions, but not enjoyment. I don't know if that even changes after her visit to Albuquerque. I see her shuttle bus breakdown at least in part as realization that she will never be free of what she engineered against Howard.

[MarthaEllisanne]

Although technically she was not in hiding, Kim was living her own Gene Takovic existence in Florida. 

[Ed-]

Some random notes:

• Miracle Whip vs Mayo conversation and "what do you think?" similar to a conversation between Kim and Saul discussing a con in one of the earlier episodes. Also, Miracle Whip is probably something Saul would choose.
• Anyone expected the falling pillar in Saul's office to be destroyed to pieces, only to be disappointed it's made of styrofoam or equivalent?
• At this point I consider the earlier Jeff played by another actor as Gene's imagination playing tricks on him making Jeff appear more mean, big and dangerous than he turned out to be
• I believe Saul has learned a lot from everyone who is dead by now, he is at the top of the game, but still feels attached to Kim. And the only way he will probably see Kim once more again is if he is reckless and gets caught. I believe taking risks now is an emotional decision. Saul has had more opportunities to quit the game than likely anyone else. He feels invincible, and maybe is subconsciously curious about testing the limits. But I think what is very real and conscious is that Saul, upon being reminded by the cancer man of mortality, doesn't want to go out quite so peacefully.
• Kim still acknowledging that Saul is dangerous for her and everyone else, but also acknowledging that he is the best at his thing (in one word, it would probably be lying), in contrast with ordinary people ("he was good when I knew him", "I am glad you are alive").

[SimplexFish]

1 hour ago, Simon Boccanegra said:

https://ew.com/tv/better-call-saul-vince-gilligan-on-waterworks-episode/

Excellent! Great to hear an analysts on an episode from someone who actually knows and not all these speculating YouTubers out there.

[GustavMahler]

12 hours ago, ahmerali said:

At this point, I am just looking forward to seeing something from Jimmy' past, where the "I trusted you" line came into play and shines a bit of light on why those words caused him to stand down from hurting Marion.

Or did maybe one of the old ladies at Sandpiper say that at one point? I have to check...

I think you are spot on with the Sandpiper connection though I do not think someone needed to say that. He had a genuine affinity towards those Seniors even if his original motives might have been for personal gain. He reflected on this when confronted by Marion and simply could not go any further.

[JudyObscure]

We always had both Miracle Whip and Mayonnaise in the house.  Miracle  Whip is sweeter and has more spices, making it better for certain things -- like tuna fish salad. Kim has probably discovered that now, but I expect she would be hesitant to come right out and declare for it.

[GustavMahler]

The shuttle scene where Kim broke down (one of many Emmy Award moments for Rhea Seehorn) really hit home when that hand, tentatively touched upon Kim's arm. A moment of tenderness that was quite powerful since this type of display was want in this series.

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

She left Jimmy and ABQ 6 years prior...

Hmm…..statute of limitations on most felonies in that state is 6 years. Wonder if Kim realized that.  🥴. But, I think they may be tolled if the offender leaves the state and she did.
 

I’m undecided on Kim’s new leaf. I need to watch the episode again as I do change my opinion after a second or third viewing. Lol  Not to be heartless, but some people cry about their own sorrow too.  I guess I should appreciate Kim’s remorse…….but, it wasn’t something I needed and wonder if it wasn’t a bit self indulgent.  I take it that her new life is akin to paying penance and that’s why it’s self imposed.  In a way Gene was doing that as well until he came out, so to speak.  

[Razzberry]

What's the difference between Duke's and Best Food's (Hellman's) mayo?  I don't recall seeing Duke's here on the west coast, but I may look for it.

[peeayebee]

I got the feeling that was the first time Kim really cried. This is 6 years worth of pain, sorrow, and remorse all coming out.

[Colorado David]

26 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

We always had both Miracle Whip and Mayonnaise in the house.  Miracle  Whip is sweeter and has more spices, making it better for certain things -- like tuna fish salad. Kim has probably discovered that now, but I expect she would be hesitant to come right out and declare for it.

I'm afraid I need to disagree, I do not want sweet tuna fish salad.  As I do not want catsup on my hotdog. One has to take a stand on the important things.   😝

[ahmerali]

12 hours ago, Dev F said:

Searching the transcipts, I did find a match, and a pretty interesting one: "These people trusted you" is what Erin Brill from Davis & Main says to Jimmy when he's pretending to be an uncaring shit so the Sandpiper residents will "accidentally" overhear and stop blaming Mrs. Landry for ending the lawsuit prematurely. I can see why that might be a shock to Gene's system, to be reminded that what was once an over-the-top performance of greedy contempt has become who he actually is.

Edited to add: Oh, and in both cases the expression of betrayal is a sad echo of Jimmy's motto as an elder law specialist: "JIMMY McGILL: A Lawyer You Can Trust."

Thank you for that! That makes sense.

[Colorado David]

28 minutes ago, GustavMahler said:

The shuttle scene where Kim broke down (one of many Emmy Award moments for Rhea Seehorn) really hit home when that hand, tentatively touched upon Kim's arm. A moment of tenderness that was quite powerful since this type of display was want in this series.

I agree, that was nice. If I see someone in distress like that, I'll at least ask if I can help or what's wrong.

[luna1122]

25 minutes ago, GustavMahler said:

The shuttle scene where Kim broke down (one of many Emmy Award moments for Rhea Seehorn) really hit home when that hand, tentatively touched upon Kim's arm. A moment of tenderness that was quite powerful since this type of display was want in this series.

On Talking Saul, Vince Gilligan said that was his wife Holly sitting next to Kim on the shuttle, who reached out a hand to her. They actually rode around for hours on the Alberquerue airport shuttle, filming that. 

Rhea also informed us that her family is a Duke's mayo family, even displaying the half-empty jar. And she's not a fan of Miracle Whip. 

I agree that Kim hasn't cried in 6 years, so that was 6 years of pain, guilt, fear and sorrow pouring out. 

[SunnyBeBe]

They didn’t mention NC, but here Dukes is the standard.  If the store is out of Duke’s….they are out of mayo.  Using a substitute is not an option.  Sounds weird, but it’s true.  Lol

[ahmerali]

3 hours ago, BC4ME said:

Kim's wig was so bad that I actually think it must mean something. It really stands out and not just the color.

She was blonde...there was sunshine in her life.

Now her hair is dark and drab...as is her life.

[GustavMahler]

It is something when a television show creates posts concerning mayonnaise. I do not like Miracle Whip. Hellmans is very good, slightly tarter than Dukes and good for sandwiches. Dukes has a very good egg based flavor and is good for salads like tuna, chicken and shrimp . I would use Hellmans for egg salad however, because the vinegar punch compliments the eggs. I keep both brands on hand.

Edited August 10, 2022 by GustavMahler