S04.E06: Chapter Six: The Dive

[turbogirlnyc]

Has anyone else noticed that Dustin's mom is played by the lady who was Rose's mom in Mindhunter season 1? The one that cried all the time and had the son that cried and was involved in the murder of his "fiance"? Just me? Lol. I heard her say "Are you lying to the police, Dusty?" In a whiny tone and bam! I recognized her straight away. Maybe I've watched Mindhunter a few too many times.

I like Eddie though he's super charismatic to be thought of as a pariah at school even if he's been held back. The jock teens are so out of character, imo, that I'm tempted to fast forward through all their drama. Maybe their behavior was typical for basketball players in the 80s? 

I wish they'd given Will and Jonathan more to do. Will's actor has been a standout of the younger group and his facial expressions during the shootout showdown at Joyce's reminded me how good he was. Such a waste. Can't stand the Russian shenanigans any longer. The lab/Papa stuff is getting drawn out too. 

Edited June 7, 2022 by turbogirlnyc

[Kel Varnsen]

10 hours ago, mledawn said:

El has regressed because she has no powers, she is away from her friend group, and her dad has died. The things that supported her and helped her grow have been removed. 

The Hopper being dead is probably a huge one. Add onto that, that Hopper is dead and she couldn't save him and that everyone she lives with probably has PTSD and doesn't know how to deal with it and it would be made so much worse.

19 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't take it that those are his only options, but he was reducing his options to those two because of the people he cares for.

But even so California is a state with a huge population. And I am not sure where their fake town is supposed to represent, but their has to be more options that he could consider than the local community college. Especially since this is the show that lives off of 80's movies/tv tropes so Jonathan working at the university book store or coffee shop part time would be enough to pay for school no matter where he went.

[KaveDweller]

22 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Then that's all taken away. I can't remember why Joyce decided to move the family but I thought it was a mistake even back then. Moving is terribly hard on kids. So it stands to reason she's regressed a bit. If she were still living in Hawkins, she would be surrounded by "the gang" and I doubt she would care if someone like Angela came after her, even if she didn't have her powers. But in California, there is only Will to side with her.

I think she wanted to move on account of Hawkins being cursed and full of gates to the Upside Down where her kids keep almost dying. She probably thought moving was worth any social risks.

[Redrum]

30 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I think she wanted to move on account of Hawkins being cursed and full of gates to the Upside Down where her kids keep almost dying. She probably thought moving was worth any social risks.

I mean realistically I'd think more people would be moving away considering the whole endless deaths of townies galore. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

11 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

The Hopper being dead is probably a huge one. Add onto that, that Hopper is dead and she couldn't save him and that everyone she lives with probably has PTSD and doesn't know how to deal with it and it would be made so much worse.

But even so California is a state with a huge population. And I am not sure where their fake town is supposed to represent, but their has to be more options that he could consider than the local community college. Especially since this is the show that lives off of 80's movies/tv tropes so Jonathan working at the university book store or coffee shop part time would be enough to pay for school no matter where he went.

Also, California has one of the most well-regarded public university system in the country, especially in this era. So it's weird that they didn't name-check one of the state colleges or public universities. 

The fact that Nancy is going to Emerson made me wonder if someone on the show went there. It's a great school but its reputation has grown a lot in the past few decades. In this era, it still would have been thought of as more of a regional school and wasn't really considered one of the top journalism programs in the country. I feel like it would have more likely for Nancy to apply to a school like Northwestern, especially in this era, than Emerson. 

[CailynA]

9 hours ago, Redrum said:

I mean realistically I'd think more people would be moving away considering the whole endless deaths of townies galore. 

This is what I wonder. My son and I were talking about it yesterday after I had said again "after everything that's happened, why haven't more people moved away from Hawkins?" Son says "maybe they can't afford to" which I thought was a good point

Hubby keeps asking where all the people who worked at the lab lived? So many of them died over two seasons you'd think that would have gotten people's attention. They had to have families if not their own they had mothers and fathers.

[questionfear]

14 hours ago, turbogirlnyc said:

Has anyone else noticed that Dustin's mom is played by the lady who was Rose's mom in Mindhunter season 1? The one that cried all the time and had the son that cried and was involved in the murder of his "fiance"? Just me? Lol. I heard her say "Are you lying to the police, Dusty?" In a whiny tone and bam! I recognized her straight away. Maybe I've watched Mindhunter a few too many times.

She was also a guard in some of the earlier seasons of Orange is the New Black.

[peachmangosteen]

2 minutes ago, questionfear said:

She was also a guard in some of the earlier seasons of Orange is the New Black.

Ah, that's how I know her!

[Clanstarling]

17 hours ago, janie jones said:

If they had stayed in Hawkins, I want to know how they were going to explain El's existence. That Hopper had randomly adopted a kid? That she was his illegitimate child that he just found out about? What would justify Joyce taking her in? At least by moving locations, it makes their lie (that she's their stepsister/daughter) easier.

El was already living with Hopper as his daughter, and out and about in Hawkins. So whatever story Hopper told was clearly accepted. On the other hand, like the rest of the gang, he didn't really have friends except for those in the know, so no one would really have asked. So maybe they just went with it. I'm not sure that El went to school in Hawkins, we really just saw her in her house and in the mall last season (as I recall).

El is enrolled in CA as Jane Hopper, rather than Byers, so she had to have some paperwork, probably paid for the powers that helped them relocate.

My feeling is that they left because a) Joyce lost two loves to the horror in Hawkins and needed to get away and b) the powers that be wanted to get them out of there - I'd say hide, but living under their own names isn't particularly conducive to hiding. But clearly there were people looking for them.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Clanstarling

[Taryn74]

24 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

El is enrolled in CA as Jane Hopper, rather than Byers, so she had to have some paperwork, probably paid for the powers that helped them relocate.

There was a scene at the end of one of the seasons where Owens is giving Hopper a "birth certificate" for El under the name Jane Hopper. Owens was supposed to be helping her hide from Papa and crew under a new name, but alas.

Also, El being 'out and about' in Hawkins was still very limited, even after they floated the story that she was Hopper's long lost daughter and her mother had just died. Hopper had to be talked into letting her go to the school dance even though passing her off as Mike's out-of-town girlfriend would have been easy enough to do.

[Sarah 103]

15 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

And I am not sure where their fake town is supposed to represent, but their has to be more options that he could consider than the local community college. Especially since this is the show that lives off of 80's movies/tv tropes so Jonathan working at the university book store or coffee shop part time would be enough to pay for school no matter where he went.

This is a serious, honest, no-snark question from a younger fan who is too young to remember the time period the show is set: In the real world/real life, would a student be able to work part-time during the school year and full time during the summer and be able to afford a public college/university without loans or massive debt? I know that was possible during the 1970s and earlier, but I thought by the mid 1980s college tution had started to skyrocket and that was becoming less and less of a possibility. 

It's also possible that you were thinking of/going by TVLand logic, which is absolutely a completely acceptable answer to this as well.  

[janie jones]

1 hour ago, Taryn74 said:

Also, El being 'out and about' in Hawkins was still very limited, even after they floated the story that she was Hopper's long lost daughter and her mother had just died. Hopper had to be talked into letting her go to the school dance even though passing her off as Mike's out-of-town girlfriend would have been easy enough to do.

I don't think that's right. At the end of season 2, (fall 1984), Paul Reiser's character advised Hopper to keep El hidden for about another year. During season 3 (summer 1984, less than a year later), she was sneaking out to hang out with Max (when they run into the boys at the mall the first time, Mike points out that she's not supposed to be there). Hopper and El aren't shown out and about together. Even when she's at Max's house, for all we know, she just told her parents she was a kid from school. I believe she was in hiding until they moved to California and no story had yet been floated, other than whatever Max might have told her parents.

[Clanstarling]

37 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

This is a serious, honest, no-snark question from a younger fan who is too young to remember the time period the show is set: In the real world/real life, would a student be able to work part-time during the school year and full time during the summer and be able to afford a public college/university without loans or massive debt? I know that was possible during the 1970s and earlier, but I thought by the mid 1980s college tution had started to skyrocket and that was becoming less and less of a possibility. 

It's also possible that you were thinking of/going by TVLand logic, which is absolutely a completely acceptable answer to this as well.  

It was absolutely true in the 70's, I also went back full time for a master's in the mid 80's, and it didn't cost me an arm and leg. I was even laid off just before I began, and didn't worry about it. Of course, I'm talking about state colleges, not private colleges.

There was (in CA at least) the proviso that you had to live in state for at least a year before you got those tuition rates.

Edited June 8, 2022 by Clanstarling

[Sarah 103]

3 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

It was absolutely true in the 70's, I also went back full time for a master's in the mid 80's, and it didn't cost me an arm and leg. I was even laid off just before I began, and didn't worry about it. Of course, I'm talking about state colleges, not private colleges.

There was (in CA at least) the proviso that you had to live in state for at least a year before you got those tuition rates.

Thanks for that very helpful and informative answer. I was thinking about state colleges too when I posted, so we're on the same page.  

[vanillalime]

41 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

This is a serious, honest, no-snark question from a younger fan who is too young to remember the time period the show is set: In the real world/real life, would a student be able to work part-time during the school year and full time during the summer and be able to afford a public college/university without loans or massive debt? I know that was possible during the 1970s and earlier, but I thought by the mid 1980s college tution had started to skyrocket and that was becoming less and less of a possibility. 

It's also possible that you were thinking of/going by TVLand logic, which is absolutely a completely acceptable answer to this as well.  

I graduated from high school in 1985 (the same year as Steve Harrington!). I went to the most expensive public university in my state (the University of Michigan). During the summers, I worked 45 hours a week at a minimum wage job, and it was just enough to cover expenses (tuition, room and board, books) for one semester. My parents would pay for the second semester. Many (most, actually) of my high school classmates attended smaller public state universities that cost far less because that's what they (or their parents) could afford. So, yes, it was doable, but you definitely had to plan and SAVE.

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

It's also possible that you were thinking of/going by TVLand logic, which is absolutely a completely acceptable answer to this as well.  

I was totally thinking of TV logic where a part time job easily makes enough money for someone to afford a public university in their state. Bonus points if you work at the place where your friends already hang out like a coffee shop or bar. I went to university in Canada in the 90's (which was super cheap) so I have no real frame of reference (other than TV) for how much US school would have cost back then.

[Redrum]

I started college in 1990, elder siblings in 1986 and 1988 respectfully. They both went to expensive private colleges and are both currently mired in student loan debt. I went to the state university and did take out student loans but have had the school debt, including a masters paid off since 2005. It was still possible but the traps of student debt were definitely around in the 1980s.

A financial point I was surprised about was how casually Mike's parents were about airline tickets. Flying was expensive then 

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, Redrum said:

A financial point I was surprised about was how casually Mike's parents were about airline tickets. Flying was expensive then 

Maybe it was his only birthday or Christmas present. 

[QQQQ]

Can You Work Your Way Through College? Yes, In 1985

I love the warning for these episodes: fear, language, disturbing images, gore, smoking. It really does capture the essence of growing up in the 80s 😂

Edited June 9, 2022 by QQQQ

[Haleth]

That was really good!  The scenes in Hawkins were tense, omigosh poor Steve!  The scenes at Nina were heartbreaking, again with the bullying of Eleven!  The scenes at Suzie's house were quirky and hilarious.  Well needed break from the tension.  I even enjoyed (finally) the madcap adventures of Joyce and Murray.  And the scenes at the prison are finally going somewhere relevant.  I still hate that everyone is so spread out but all the storylines have finally hit their stride.  I almost stayed up late to watch the finale, but decided it would probably give me nightmares.

Love all the nods to 80s movies.

Yeah, the orderly is definitely One.  He's seriously creepy.

In the early 80s (?) my husband was involved in the financing of a brand new concept that would allow people with home computers to shop from home and buy airline tickets, among other things.  The sky's the limit.  It was Prodigy.  My initial reaction was why would people want to do that?  And what the heck is "the internet" anyway?

[Taryn74]

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

My initial reaction was why would people want to do that?  And what the heck is "the internet" anyway?

It's so funny to me to look back at how we viewed technology just 40 years ago! I can remember our 6 o'clock news one time making a comment that they were going to have someone on the 10 o'clock news telling you how to build your own computer. I literally had a notebook and pen ready at 10 because I thought I was going to learn, beginning to end, how to build a computer for myself. 😂

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Taryn74 said:

It's so funny to me to look back at how we viewed technology just 40 years ago! I can remember our 6 o'clock news one time making a comment that they were going to have someone on the 10 o'clock news telling you how to build your own computer. I literally had a notebook and pen ready at 10 because I thought I was going to learn, beginning to end, how to build a computer for myself. 😂

My ex built a Heathkit computer. It had a tiny tape drive. It worked pretty good - I only only played a game on it, that I still like better than the computer games I can now play.

[ElleBee]

On 6/8/2022 at 10:05 AM, Sarah 103 said:

This is a serious, honest, no-snark question from a younger fan who is too young to remember the time period the show is set: In the real world/real life, would a student be able to work part-time during the school year and full time during the summer and be able to afford a public college/university without loans or massive debt? I know that was possible during the 1970s and earlier, but I thought by the mid 1980s college tution had started to skyrocket and that was becoming less and less of a possibility. 

It's also possible that you were thinking of/going by TVLand logic, which is absolutely a completely acceptable answer to this as well.  

I went to a UC (University of California) in the second half of the 80's, so I just pulled out an old check register. Tuition in 1988 was $1,550 per year and my share of a fairly standard apartment with roommates was $200 a month. Even though minimum wage in California was only $4.25 at that point, it was definitely very doable to get through college without loans, or with only small loans, by working part time during the school year and full time during the summer.

(Also noticed I paid $15.50 for an on-campus Simple Minds concert, so clearly super hip back in the day. 😎 )

[QuantumMechanic]

As a datapoint, MIT in 1985 was $11,000 per year.  Can't remember if that was just tuition or was tuition & dorm.  Meal plan was another $1,500 or so.

(And that was when your parents' equity in their house was included in the aid calculation.)

Edited June 10, 2022 by QuantumMechanic

[eleanorofaquitaine]

On 6/8/2022 at 3:19 PM, Redrum said:

I started college in 1990, elder siblings in 1986 and 1988 respectfully. They both went to expensive private colleges and are both currently mired in student loan debt. I went to the state university and did take out student loans but have had the school debt, including a masters paid off since 2005. It was still possible but the traps of student debt were definitely around in the 1980s.

A financial point I was surprised about was how casually Mike's parents were about airline tickets. Flying was expensive then 

I started college in '91 at what was at the time considered an expensive private college but then transferred to a state university (not for financial reasons, though). From a financial perspective, it was the best decision I ever made because my loans existed but were minimal and I was able to pay them off pretty quickly. It feels to me that this was the last era where higher education was truly affordable. 

[Kate47]

Wanting to note that this episode and the previous one were directed by Nimrod Antal, who directed Predators, one of the better movies in the franchise.

[mirandroid]

On 6/1/2022 at 7:23 AM, moonshine71 said:

Enough that a movie was made and aired on network tv about a D&D like game where kids lost touch w/ reality and did crazy shit. With a young Tom Hanks.

"I am Pardu. I am a holy man. I guard my spells with my life." I put this movie on when I want to troll my houseguests. 😄  Apparently there is a pint-sized version of D&D kids can play now? One of my coworkers with a 4yo was telling me about it. 

Anyway, I feel like Eddie and possibly Steve are going to eat it. Either would make me sad, both would piss me off.

[Cranberry]

I don't think anyone major will die until season five, just because the Duffers will want all the fan faves there to draw in viewers for that final season. I'll start getting worried once they don't "need" the characters anymore.

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I don't think anyone major will die until season five, just because the Duffers will want all the fan faves there to draw in viewers for that final season. I'll start getting worried once they don't "need" the characters anymore.

I feel like this is a show with opening credits immunity, which is why I don't think they're going to kill Steve this season. Eddie does seem like the kind of character they might kill off at the end of the season like Bob, Alexi, or Billy. 

[Taryn74]

28 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Eddie does seem like the kind of character they might kill off at the end of the season like Bob, Alexi, or Billy. 

I hope not. I really thought I wasn't going to like Eddie at all (from the season teaser/trailer and his first few scenes) but I honestly like him a lot.

Of course I liked Bob and Alexi, too. RIP.

[Emily Thrace]

On 6/8/2022 at 8:00 AM, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Also, California has one of the most well-regarded public university system in the country, especially in this era. So it's weird that they didn't name-check one of the state colleges or public universities. 

The fact that Nancy is going to Emerson made me wonder if someone on the show went there. It's a great school but its reputation has grown a lot in the past few decades. In this era, it still would have been thought of as more of a regional school and wasn't really considered one of the top journalism programs in the country. I feel like it would have more likely for Nancy to apply to a school like Northwestern, especially in this era, than Emerson. 

Yeah considering Jonathan wanted to go to NYU since he was 6 why not just apply there? Or Columbia or Barnard? Or any of the like 15 excellent journalism schools in the greater New York area? It smells of the writers creating conflict for the sake of it. I also suspect Nancy being so definite in her plans means they are going to change just because of the laws of drama.

[Ilovepie]

On 5/31/2022 at 9:47 PM, Taryn74 said:

do, however, remember all the hyped up terror over the EVVVILLLLLL rock and metal music. KISS stood for Knights In Satan's Service. Backward masking was totally plausible. Ozzy meant to bite the head off that bat. (To be fair, he did run with it after the rumors started, because he's Ozzy LOL.) There were books, ya'll, whole entire books devoted to perusing even the most benign rock lyrics for subliminal messages. SMH

YES!!! I remember all of this! My parents and my friends parents made us watch a documentary highlighting how all of these evil bands were satanic! I remember being warned of all the backwards record playing that was secretly encoding satanic messages - the Beatles, KISS, Ozzy and don't even get me started on Hotel California.......good grief.......

The jock kid should definitely take up politics after high school. Between the perfect hair and jawline, plus the way he whipped that crowd up in record time, he's like the perfect candidate - I'm guessing he's already a member of Young Republicans.......The kids parents must have been horrified to see the picture being circulated with Dustin, Mike, and Lucas standing next to the supposed murderer. Leave it to Ericka to be the only voice of reason at that meeting. "This is bullshit!" :-0 The Hawkins police definitely need Hopper back.

Suzie's family is a hoot. The dad navigating the chaos was hilarious. When he freaked over the sister with the cut throat seizing on the floor, I couldn't stop laughing. I also loved the brother filming her with the little mustache.....

Obviously, Dr. Brenner is evil, but every new revelation just makes him worse. Pitting the kids against each other, and letting them fight it out is twisted. I really, really hope he dies for real by the end of this show.

[Taryn74]

15 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

don't even get me started on Hotel California

Bahahahaha!

[DoctorAtomic]

The devil is on the cover of the record. It's hidden. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 6/13/2022 at 10:15 PM, Emily Thrace said:

Yeah considering Jonathan wanted to go to NYU since he was 6 why not just apply there? Or Columbia or Barnard? Or any of the like 15 excellent journalism schools in the greater New York area? It smells of the writers creating conflict for the sake of it. I also suspect Nancy being so definite in her plans means they are going to change just because of the laws of drama.

The reason that had been given at some point this season was that Jonathan feels the need to remain close to where Joyce and Will are to support/protect them. Which, I suppose, is not a bad reason if you factor all the stuff the two of them have gone through and how few other support systems either might have outside of him. 

So instead of going to Emerson or even the best UC school he can, he's planning to go to community college in the town he's in so he can be available to Joyce and Will at a moment's notice.

[Clanstarling]

17 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

So instead of going to Emerson or even the best UC school he can, he's planning to go to community college in the town he's in so he can be available to Joyce and Will at a moment's notice.

And community college isn't a bad choice for a kid of limited means. I went to CC, then transferred to a university after taking my first two years of general ed. Because of the prejudice against CCs, I did not get a degree from the CC and never listed it on any of my resumes. The one I went to - in CA - was excellent and didn't deserve the shade.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Clanstarling

[Fool to cry]

The scenes with Suzie's family illustrates the thing I love most about the show is it feels every important character is the star of their own movie that just happens to intersect with each other!

[Nashville]

On 6/15/2022 at 1:34 PM, Ilovepie said:

YES!!! I remember all of this! My parents and my friends parents made us watch a documentary highlighting how all of these evil bands were satanic! I remember being warned of all the backwards record playing that was secretly encoding satanic messages - the Beatles, KISS, Ozzy and don't even get me started on Hotel California.......good grief.......

You forgot Metallica!!!  </tippergore>
 

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

And community college isn't a bad choice for a kid of limited means. I went to CC, then transferred to a university after taking my first two years of general ed. Because of the prejudice against CCs, I did not get a degree from the CC and never listed it on any of my resumes. The one I went to - in CA - was excellent and didn't deserve the shade.

IMHO the ONE saving grace behind the current psychotically escalated cost of higher education has been to greatly legitimize the educational and economic validity - and value - of community colleges.

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, Fool to cry said:

The scenes with Suzie's family illustrates the thing I love most about the show is it feels every important character is the star of their own movie that just happens to intersect with each other!

I totally agree. In fact, it ties in with something I've been thinking about lately, which is that during the production of every season, when the casting calls go out, fans always freak out that there are too many new characters and the show should focus more on the original cast, but in fact the Duffers are at their best when they're incorporating new characters and new situations, and at their weakest when they focus too tightly on the established characters in familiar situations.

Like, how much more interesting would El's lab flashbacks have been if all the kids were shown to have unique powers, instead of every scene being some variation on a telekinesis battle? Why did the Byerses need to be presented as such friendless sadsacks in California when you could just as easily create a rift between them and their Hawkins friends/love interests by giving them a vibrant group of new friends?

Fans tend to worry that widening the scope of the story like this would detract from the existing characters, but in fact the Duffers are really, really good at quickly and concisely establishing new characters and getting the audience to fall in love with them, whether it's making Chrissy the prototypical horror victim into an endearing character in one scene with Eddie, or making Suzie's filmmaker brother memorable just by having him draw on a John Waters mustache and mime the action of cranking a manual camera.

[Sarah 103]

4 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

The scenes with Suzie's family illustrates the thing I love most about the show is it feels every important character is the star of their own movie that just happens to intersect with each other!

With very limited screen time they established a new little world and it's one that I wouldn't mind returning to. The distraction plan felt very Home Alone in the best way possible. 

[SoMuchTV]

32 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

With very limited screen time they established a new little world and it's one that I wouldn't mind returning to. The distraction plan felt very Home Alone in the best way possible. 

I was thinking Home Alone meets Wes Anderson.  My first impression was, what is this? but it grew on me. 

[Cheezwiz]

Holy hell, poor Steve and those crazy bat things!

Distracting impossibility: No one could possibly hold their breath underwater for that long. That was Shelly Winters in the Poseidon Adventure long.

It was a relief to see the Russian prison stuff start to go somewhere. I really like Hopper's Russian accomplice Dmitri, and I fear he's going to bite it (probably in a heroic manner).

Eddie continues to rock! And yes, as others have stated, he's Robert Downey Jr. with Eddie Van Halen hair!

I have to say that I am so, so, sooooo very bored with the lab scenes - even more so than the Russian ones. It's just the same thing over and over ad nauseum. Also already bored with the re-emergent Nancy/Steve/Jonathan love triangle.

Suzie's house was like some sort of Wes Anderson fever dream - well done, show! I loved Argyll falling in instant love!

[Nashville]

On 5/31/2022 at 5:31 PM, CarpeFelis said:

I spent a good chunk of my software career writing Fortran. You didn’t miss out much.

Coulda been worse.  
Coulda been COBOL.  
😆

On 6/6/2022 at 2:12 PM, janie jones said:

Out of state tuition, though. It seems like he needs to go to school in California. But who knows! Joyce can afford that house and to pay Hopper's ransom, so maybe there's tons of money for college.

The government bought the house, I expect, and probably set aside at least some money for the kids’ educations - but if Joyce herself is reduced to hawking encyclopedias over the phone, I doubt she’s backstroking through any substantial piles of greenbacks.

On 6/8/2022 at 12:05 PM, Sarah 103 said:

This is a serious, honest, no-snark question from a younger fan who is too young to remember the time period the show is set: In the real world/real life, would a student be able to work part-time during the school year and full time during the summer and be able to afford a public college/university without loans or massive debt? I know that was possible during the 1970s and earlier, but I thought by the mid 1980s college tution had started to skyrocket and that was becoming less and less of a possibility. 

It's also possible that you were thinking of/going by TVLand logic, which is absolutely a completely acceptable answer to this as well.  

I started college in 1980 - and between a work-scholarship (which covered my registration fees) plus working 3-4 different part-time jobs at any given time, I graduated in 1985* with a BS degree and no outstanding debt.  IIRC I think the HUGE jumps in college tuition prices didn’t really start taking off until around/about 1990 or so.

* I had to cut down to part-time student towards the end, and my last semester got stretched out across a year.

On 6/10/2022 at 2:04 PM, QuantumMechanic said:

As a datapoint, MIT in 1985 was $11,000 per year.  Can't remember if that was just tuition or was tuition & dorm.  Meal plan was another $1,500 or so.

(And that was when your parents' equity in their house was included in the aid calculation.)

That $11K was strictly tuition; tuition + room + board was more in the neighborhood of $15K/yr.  And that’s not even counting anything for books, supplies, etc.; those knocked actual cost up to more like $20K/yr - which was pretty close to the starting annual salary of a full-time computer programmer with a bachelors degree, to give you something approaching a relative comparison.

 (I applied in 1980 and was accepted, but couldn’t afford it) 😁

[CarpeFelis]

10 hours ago, Nashville said:

Coulda been worse.  
Coulda been COBOL.  
😆

ROTFL. Yeah, that definitely would have been worse!

MIT: I would happily have applied there but my parents didn’t want me to go out of state because of a New York State Regents scholarship (which was all of $300, FFS). Went to RPI instead. IIRC when I went there starting in 1975 it was about $8000 a year.

[Nashville]

7 hours ago, CarpeFelis said:

Went to RPI instead. IIRC when I went there starting in 1975 it was about $8000 a year.

RPI was up to about $10K/yr by 1980. 😄  I applied to MIT, RPI and Rose-Hudnall, and got accepted to all 3 - but back then there wasn’t near the amount of financial assistance available that seems almost commonplace now, and my parents were not wealthy people by any stretch of the imagination.  Which is how I ended up working my way through state college, where I could get in-state resident tuition at least.  🙂

[QuantumMechanic]

4 hours ago, Nashville said:

but back then there wasn’t near the amount of financial assistance available that seems almost commonplace now, and my parents were not wealthy people by any stretch of the imagination.  Which is how I ended up working my way through state college, where I could get in-state resident tuition at least.  🙂

One reason is that back then the parents' equity in their home was included in the finaid calculation (it isn't these days).  My mother was a single mom making under $10K/yr and we got zero aid from MIT because of the equity in the home.   (Regardless of the fact that she couldn't have afforded the payments on a new mortgage or HELOC. Especially given the interest rates of the mid 1980s.)

[Hotel Snarker]

LEAVE STEVE ALONE! OH MY GOD! If anything happens to Steve I will riot.

Gotta love how Jason stood there for second, wondering if his motivational fuck Satan speech worked. He still finds a way to blame Eddie for the murders.

So Suzie definitely grew up to be a tech giant that probably created Google, right?

I was waiting to see the number again before questioning this, but when they dialed the number in the desert, Will read out a number very different from the written one.

So according to the Army guy it’s plausible that a teenage girl is using her telekinetic powers, that are linked to another dimension, to murder teens from miles away but it’s not plausible that there’s a monster in another dimension doing it? 

These cops SUCK! Just letting an actual mob form to go kill kids.

Hopper telling those men about their last meal was so tense.

[nodorothyparker]

Okay, I remember the Satanic Panic. I know it involved a whole lot of people not thinking critically about things that seemed dark and scary that they didn't understand and running almost entirely on hysteria. But seriously? This whole town is going to be led around by their noses by the town jock and the cops are just going to stand there while he all but hands them the torches and pitchforks? I know these are Hopper's hapless former deputies who seem to have been elevated beyond their abilities in his absence, but come on. Not one of our main gang's parents even tried to speak up to defend their kids. 

The stopover with Suzie was a lot more entertaining than I would have expected. We know she's right about the internet and that she'll probably be running the whole thing some day, but that chaotic overflowing house was possibly the greatest advertisement for birth control ever. So the Surfer Boy pizza van crew is now going to drive into the Nevada desert and then what?

I laughed after the entire setup of the lake crew seemed to be about giving Joe Keery an excuse to do scenes sans shirt and then one fully clothed teenager, a couple in full sweaters or jackets, just dived in after him one after another.

I still really really need the Russia story to wrap up and stop eating so much screentime, but at the same time I'll admit I kind of enjoyed Hopper first recognizing they were talking about a demogorgon and then laying out for them exactly why they were finally being treated to a decent meal.

Why exactly are all the lab rats now acting like a bunch of bullying gits too? Dudes, you're still all prisoners in flappy hospital gowns. What is the point? Of any of it? I'm more convinced now than I was before the entire lab rat massacre flashbacks we're getting are a misdirection.

[Redrum]

20 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Why exactly are all the lab rats now acting like a bunch of bullying gits too? Dudes, you're still all prisoners in flappy hospital gowns. What is the point?

Agree although it stands to reason that the kids, even if isolated, would have a pecking order based on who is biggest and who has the powers that please Papa the most.

My real problem with it is that it makes El look even more socially behind. 

[nodorothyparker]

Those scenes don't really make any sense without more to go on. What have all these other lab rat kids been told about Eleven who just showed up? Anything at all? Do they know she recently came back from the outside or what that even means? Do they know she was Brenner's special star pet? Have all or most of them lived in the super secret underground lab all their lives and have a pecking order based on that? Is it just about who makes "Papa" the happiest?

Too much to try to convey without making those scenes even longer and more tedious, I know, for characters who probably don't matter much in the grand scheme of the larger story. But where I didn't have much trouble buying the mean girls bullying storyline or even what the vigilante jocks are doing, as much I don't like it, this one is just weird and uncomfortable to watch. We get it, show. She's a special case even among other child oddities locked up for their telekinetic abilities. We already got it watching the assorted government goons tearing after her over four seasons.