S06.E11: Saturday in the Park

[CountryGirl]

1 hour ago, Artsda said:

Loved all the Kevin and Randall scenes, especially Randall slapping the phone trying to stop him from making impulse decision on like declaring love to hold onto Madison.

I guess that's end of Madison and Kevin. I really hope he's not with Sophie in future, but I guess that is coming. Stick with Madison! I don't like the new boyfriend. 

Kate was bitchy to Toby all episode, but he flew off the handle when she wanted to call the plumber to fix the original leak. He refused and said it's fixed, so I don't blame her for being pissed at that reoccurring.  

Toby also wasn't best himself, who cares what Kevin and Kate were laughing about? He flipped at that even. He was mad she was enabling a blind child to do things himself. 

I did like the scene on the lawn if big 3 with Randall in front with Toby's "there it is" comment. I like siblings unified like that. 

Loved drunk Rebecca night out and Jack side eyeing get comments. Lol

Nodding along to this as well.

Kate did think the issue with the leak was fixed vs the likely temporary band-aid Toby's dad warned him about (when he said to call an actual plumber), so I am not understanding the mental gymnastics that Kate should have known it really wasn't fixed, much less called the plumber herself. I mean, you come home, you see a perfectly intact, freshly-painted ceiling, you're gonna assume it's taken care of. That is on Toby, no matter how snippy Kate was being.

I also called out "paranoid, much?" when Toby was grilling Kate about what she and Kevin had been laughing at and assuming it was about him. 

I also didn't miss Toby questioning Kate letting Jack use his cane "shouldn't we hold his hand?" and her very reasonably responding, "We gotta let him practice." She's right, they do, as he needs to learn, and she was already holding onto his right hand. 

[Rootbeer]

12 hours ago, AuxArx said:

So the kids got forgiven and snuggled up in bed after locking the babysitter in the closet because they were protecting each other? If I’d done that to a babysitter, my parents would have sent me to my room after giving me a huge lecture about respect.

 

The fact that their parents seemingly justified their reaction to a babysitter calling Kate by a silly nickname (also the name of a well known doll of the 60's-70's) because Kate was 'hurt' and her brothers were 'protecting' her is exactly the reason why Kevin, and eventually Randall,  feel the need to step into an argument between Kate and her husband and why Kate didn't even tell her brothers to butt out, but, instead, stood there staring snottily at her husband with her brothers at her side.  That is some massively dysfunctional codependence there.  And, Rebecca thought it was great that the kids locked the sitter in the bathroom?  As punishment because Kate didn't like an innocent nickname?  What is wrong with these people?

Run far away, Toby.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

Nodding along to all of this. Toby knew the score regarding the Big 3's bond and yes, co-dependency long before he married Kate. 

Beth also stressed that it wasn't a unilateral decision or instantaneous when they moved to Philly. It only happened because Beth was given the space and time by Randall to see a life for herself, not just Randall's wife, but as Beth the individual in Philly. The move would never have happened if Beth's needs had not been addressed. I don't see where Kate has been given that opportunity, most significantly, Toby's dismissive comments about her job (which he scoffed at again in last night's episode). Toby isn't wrong for wanting his family under one roof, but Kate needs something of her own beyond taking care of the kids and their home. Being fulfilled in one's work has been amazing for Toby - he needs to see that Kate is no different and that although her part-time job pays peanuts compared to his salary, it is very fulfilling and rewarding for her and makes her a better parent and individual and, I would argue, a better partner. 

That's because Randall actually respects his wife.  I am not seeing any evidence that Toby does.  His attitude towards everything Kate is trying to do with Jack shows this.  

[Cheyanne11]

1 hour ago, Lisa418722 said:

I'm thinking Kate and Phillip Mean Jerk deserve each other. 

I'm also thinking we'll get about one scene that hints at a future relationship and that's it.  We'll just have to assume the Mean Jerk was so captivated by Kate that he changed his ways.

[CountryGirl]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Because they have to ret-con in Toby being a jerk all along to justify Kate's behavior and make her the victim/heroine. Bleh.

I don't see a ret-con where Toby is concerned. He's been shown to be problematic at times in the past, particularly when it comes to keeping secrets. We've seen that over a number of seasons now, going back to Jack's birth. 

I find it very interesting the premise that every single negative aspect of Kate's character is spot-on writing but yet anything untoward where Toby is concerned is ret-con or crappy writing or character assassination. That he's some long-suffering martyr at the hands of the evil Kate. 

It's the same writers and again, there is very clear history that we have been shown where neither of them are saints. They are both people I've wanted to hug at times and also wanted to throttle at times. I went back and forth on those feelings several times on that in last night's episode alone.

Even with the argument that Kate, by unlocking the door, was way more at fault than Toby because she allowed Jack to leave the house. Again, Kate was under the impression per Toby that Jack was safe in his room. Therefore, playing devil's advocate (or Kate's - same difference for some LOL) it shouldn't have mattered if every door or window was wide open because if he's safely secured in his room and cannot get out of his room, he cannot get out of the house. If Toby, who was blindsided when he walked to Jack's room and realized he had, in fact, not secured the gate and Jack was not in the room, why should Kate not have been blindsided as well? 

I hold them equally responsible here and this said from someone who is mostly Team Nobody but the Kids here. 

 

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I'm going to defend Kate for a bit. Although she's not without flaws herself, I do find a lot of her frustrations with Toby perfectly reasonable.

The lock on the gate. Yes, Kate nagged Toby about it but only because he wasn't doing it and she wanted Jack to be safe. By the time Jack got out of the house, Toby still hadn't learned to lock the damn gate. So it's not like Toby had correctly locked the gate 100 times and on the 101th time, he just made a mistake. All that time he hadn't been locking the gate correctly. Let's hope he doesn't have anything more complicated to do than locking a gate at that Big Important Job in SF where he Makes all the Money. Because that's the thing, isn't it? He's capable of learning how to close a gate but he doesn't make the effort like he does at his job. He should be able to handle a basic household task without his wife nagging him. He's quick to dismiss Kate's responsibilities and shrugs off participating in them himself.  I don't think women enjoy nagging their husbands but if their husbands don't do the things they should just be doing all on their own, it's totally understandable why they are driven to nagging.  I hate the word nag. It's such a derogatory way to dismiss women and their perfectly reasonable expectations.

The leak. Toby took responsibility for fixing it and he chose to do it himself rather than pay a professional to do it. Kate wanted to call a plumber from the start but Toby wouldn't let her. He couldn't even handle it himself and had to call in his dad to help him. I would be angry as well if a perfectly preventable problem hadn't been taken care of correctly from the start like I wanted it to. She's right--it didn't save them any money in the end. That said, if she noticed any leaking after the "fix" she should have called the plumber herself. But I'm not sure that she did notice anything.

I do feel for Toby with regards to how enmeshed Kate is with her brothers. He must have felt ganged up on out on the lawn like that. It's not like Kate and Toby were going to resolve anything in that moment though. Their fights, while realistic, are completely unproductive. They play the blame game and use everything in their arsenal against each other. It starts with "you didn't lock the gate" and "you didn't lock the door" and ends with "you are a terrible parent" and "no, you."

I also felt for Toby when he asked Kate if she even wanted him in L.A. Because she probably doesn't but I also think he probably doesn't want to be there either. They are just locked into such an antagonistic loop that they can't seem to get themselves out of. Who would want to live like that, really?

[Jillybean]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I believe they were trying to show the parallels between Rebecca's two 10th anniversary celebrations, neither of which worked out as she had hoped (although, Rebecca was drunk and happy the first time.)

The flashback wrapped with the Big Three united in their naughtiness, which Rebecca was cooing over because they bonded together. This was juxtaposed with present day Big Three united in the yard against Toby -- Kate with her two white knights coming to her defense against the big bad husband.

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I don't see a ret-con where Toby is concerned. He's been shown to be problematic at times in the past, particularly when it comes to keeping secrets. We've seen that over a number of seasons now, going back to Jack's birth. 

Season One Toby was brash and loved to stomp Kate's boundaries.  I still remember the episode where Kate wants to quietly watch the Steelers' game, but Toby would not take no for an answer.  He then proceeds to make it a whole thing with snacks and his friend, and he turned the game off because whatever he was saying was more important than the game she wanted to watch.  His behavior this season is the same behavior he has always exhibited.  

 

7 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I'm going to defend Kate for a bit. Although she's not without flaws herself, I do find a lot of her frustrations with Toby perfectly reasonable.

The lock on the gate. Yes, Kate nagged Toby about it but only because he wasn't doing it and she wanted Jack to be safe. By the time Jack got out of the house, Toby still hadn't learned to lock the damn gate. So it's not like Toby had correctly locked the gate 100 times and on the 101th time, he just made a mistake. All that time he hadn't been locking the gate correctly. Let's hope he doesn't have anything more complicated to do than locking a gate at that Big Important Job in SF where he Makes all the Money. Because that's the thing, isn't it? He's capable of learning how to close a gate but he doesn't make the effort like he does at his job. He should be able to handle a basic household task without his wife nagging him. He's quick to dismiss Kate's responsibilities and shrugs off participating in them himself.  I don't think women enjoy nagging their husbands but if their husbands don't do the things they should just be doing all on their own, it's totally understandable why they are driven to nagging.  I hate the word nag. It's such a derogatory way to dismiss women and their perfectly reasonable expectations.

I also hate the word nag.  It is derogatory and places the blame on the woman and not the person (usually a man, but children of all genders applies as well) who is failing to do their job.  Kate would not have to nag Toby about closing the gate correctly if he actually closed the gate correctly.  

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, hookedontv said:

Another example of Kate’s maturity-not. What adult does that? Especially with a coworker’s name? 

I remember an episode of House, where he had one of his interns listed on his phone as Cold Hearted Bitch.  Of course, that was House in a nutshell.

[Blakeston]

18 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I hold them equally responsible here and this said from someone who is mostly Team Nobody but the Kids here. 

If they're equally responsible for Jack getting out, then I see her as the bigger jerk for how she handled it.

She came back from the hospital and lashed out at Toby like it was entirely his fault.

[Rootbeer]

13 hours ago, Empress1 said:

When Kate was nagging all "My 70-year-old mother is moving the mattress!" I thought, okay, but like, you can tell her not to do that and just wait a damn minute for Toby to show up. "Mom, hold on, don't do that. Toby will be here in a minute." Was Kate doing anything to move the mattress?."

I thought the same thing.  Your 70 year old mother is moving a wet mattress and you are standing there hollering at your husband who is carrying your child?  It was probably realistic that Kate, at her current size, would be less help than a 70 year old, but the show seemingly glossed over that fact.

[hookedontv]

7 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

I remember an episode of House, where he had one of his interns listed on his phone as Cold Hearted Bitch.  Of course, that was House in a nutshell.

I loved "House" and don't remember this at all! Maybe it's more common than I thought....

[Rootbeer]

8 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also hate the word nag.  It is derogatory and places the blame on the woman and not the person (usually a man, but children of all genders applies as well) who is failing to do their job.  Kate would not have to nag Toby about closing the gate correctly if he actually closed the gate correctly.  

Just as Toby shouldn't have had to point out to Kate that, if she insisted on teaching a toddler how to open the front door, then she needed to be absolutely certain that it was locked at all times. Or, better yet, like most responsible parents, do not let the toddler open the front door, even put a child proof knob on it so he can't.  But wait, Toby DIDN'T nag her about it at all.

In the grand scheme of things, the unlatched gate was the lesser problem, IMO.  Kate taught their kid to do something that is dangerous for any toddler to know how to do, blind or not.  

[CountryGirl]

9 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

If they're equally responsible for Jack getting out, then I see her as the bigger jerk for how she handled it.

She came back from the hospital and lashed out at Toby like it was entirely his fault.

Emotions were running high for both of them.

Understandably, given what happened.

The visions running through their mind of what could have happened, even after Jack was safely home, were right under the surface on top of all of their other issues.

I have no doubt that those horrific "what if?" mind movies were still playing through their heads (Toby's as he sobbed at Jack's bedside) and they both said things they didn't mean. I don't think Toby really meant everything he said when he completely bashed Kate's teaching Jack or her job. I'm not going to have different standards where only mean Kate meant what she said, but Toby was just upset.

When it's days later, emotions have calmed, and one is still sniping at the other over things that cannot be changed, then I will consider that person to be a jerk.

 

[Cheyanne11]

3 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Just as Toby shouldn't have had to point out to Kate that, if she insisted on teaching a toddler how to open the front door, then she needed to be absolutely certain that it was locked at all times. Or, better yet, like most responsible parents, do not let the toddler open the front door, even put a child proof knob on it so he can't. 

BTW, that door and lock looked like a stiff breeze could swing it open.  Not to mention that gate didn't look all that sturdy, either.  

[Rootbeer]

30 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

 

Even with the argument that Kate, by unlocking the door, was way more at fault than Toby because she allowed Jack to leave the house. Again, Kate was under the impression per Toby that Jack was safe in his room. Therefore, playing devil's advocate (or Kate's - same difference for some LOL) it shouldn't have mattered if every door or window was wide open because if he's safely secured in his room and cannot get out of his room, he cannot get out of the house.

 

How was Toby supposed to 'safely secure' the kid in his room when his mother had taught the kid how to open doors using the knob?  If Jack could open the front door, he could open the bedroom door, too. Too bad Randall wasn't around to tie the door shut, but Kate would've probably gone off on Toby for that, too.

The fact is, both Toby and Kate, especially Kate, IMO, have gotten to the point where the other cannot do anything right in their eyes.  There was no way Toby could win at that point, she has shown that time and again and it seems like he has reached the same conclusion about her.  Had Toby found Mary Poppins herself to watch over Jack in the safest, most child-proof bedroom ever, he still would've been wrong in Kate's world.  Stick a fork in 'em, they're done.

[Crs97]

Maybe if Kate had actually listened to the woman they hired when they brought Jack home from the hospital, they would be in a better place with a better understanding of how to parent Jack.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Maybe if Kate had actually listened to the woman they hired when they brought Jack home from the hospital, they would be in a better place with a better understanding of how to parent Jack.

I'm confused here.  Everything I have seen says Kate is the one who listened to that woman.  They installed gates to keep Jack contained in the home.  Teaching Jack how to open a door is something he is going to need to learn how to do.  All kids learn this.  Doorknobs are not inherently dangerous, and it's up to the parents to lock the doors where danger could be present.  

[Cosmocrush]

13 hours ago, Katie111 said:

I get blaming each other in the moment, I think most couples do that, but Toby couldn’t do one thing right in this episode. (In Kates mind).  I agree when he said “do you even want me in LA?”.  

Because Kate had already decided she would be fine either way.   On The Hill.

[CountryGirl]

1 minute ago, Rootbeer said:

How was Toby supposed to 'safely secure' the kid in his room when his mother had taught the kid how to open doors using the knob?  If Jack could open the front door, he could open the bedroom door, too. Too bad Randall wasn't around to tie the door shut, but Kate would've probably gone off on Toby for that, too.

The fact is, both Toby and Kate, especially Kate, IMO, have gotten to the point where the other cannot do anything right in their eyes.  There was no way Toby could win at that point, she has shown that time and again and it seems like he has reached the same conclusion about her.  Had Toby found Mary Poppins herself to watch over Jack in the safest, most child-proof bedroom ever, he still would've been wrong in Kate's world.  Stick a fork in 'em, they're done.

We haven't seen anything to suggest that Jack was taught or knew how to open the gate to his room. It was a gate with a latch that opens on the outside, not a closed bedroom door. It is not the same as merely turning a knob.

Kate taught him how to turn a knob, not unlock the front door, which are very different things as well. I have already agreed she was at fault for leaving the door unlocked. 

I agree that both cannot do right in the other's eyes, but it seems the majority feel only Kate is ever in the wrong and that it's faulty writing for Toby to have a misstep. I just don't agree with that premise for reasons already stated. 

 

[Guest]

I think we have too high of expectations if we expect Kate or Toby to be a great person- they first bonded over making fun of Madison and others at a support group. Neither of them has over the years shown much care for anyone except each other, their kids, and in Kate’s case, her family. 

Kevin and Randall are very flawed. They both have shown a lot of selfishness at times. But we’ve also seen signs that they do care about others. It’s something I don’t remember seeing much from Kate or Toby. 

Hence, they deserve each other. 

[Dowel Jones]

The thought occurs to me that Rebecca was so happy that the young 3 stood together because she was overly intoxicated.  I wonder what her reaction would be the next morning when, hungover, she processes what really happened the night before.  And how it's unlikely that she'll ever get Joanie to babysit for them again.

[CountryGirl]

6 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

The thought occurs to me that Rebecca was so happy that the young 3 stood together because she was overly intoxicated.  I wonder what her reaction would be the next morning when, hungover, she processes what really happened the night before.  And how it's unlikely that she'll ever get Joanie to babysit for them again.

I can't imagine a sober Rebecca finding it touching, especially if she or Jack were the ones locked in the bathroom. And yes, good luck finding another babysitter.

[statsgirl]

The Chatty Cathy flashback (I really wanted one of those dolls but they were too expensive) shows how Kate was failed by her siblings and parents under the guise of being supported. What she needed was to learn that yeah, people say things that you don't like, you suck it up and deal. Instead, like with Jack sneaking her food, she learned that others will make the path for her.

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

Kate needs something of her own beyond taking care of the kids and their home. Being fulfilled in one's work has been amazing for Toby - he needs to see that Kate is no different and that although her part-time job pays peanuts compared to his salary, it is very fulfilling and rewarding for her and makes her a better parent and individual and, I would argue, a better partner. 

She's seems to be a worse partner now though.

Beth had a career before the move and IIRC she was the one who created the new role for herself.  Toby pushed Kate too fast but at the same time Kate knew that he was happy there but still was putting down stronger ties to LA even though she knew that Toby wanted them to move. It's like with a singing contract, she expects what she wants to be handed to her as she got when she was a child.

Creative fulfillment is great but it comes in addition to, not instead of financial considerations. Anthony Trollope wrote his novels on the train as he travelled for his job. Marjory Allingham talked about 'right handed writing' and 'left handed writing', the one for money and the other (Albert Campion) for creative satisfaction. In both those cases the satisfaction element turned into money but not at the start.

18 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

I remember an episode of House, where he had one of his interns listed on his phone as Cold Hearted Bitch.  Of course, that was House in a nutshell.

Jealous that Wilson liked her.

[Crs97]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Everything I have seen says Kate is the one who listened to that woman. 

No, she interrupted the woman Toby and Rebecca were listening to and gave the big speech about how she wouldn’t raise a child with limits.  Maybe later she started using the woman’s ideas, but I can guarantee you the woman would have helped them process the road ahead of them and Kate put a kibosh on that.

[Rootbeer]

8 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm confused here.  Everything I have seen says Kate is the one who listened to that woman.  They installed gates to keep Jack contained in the home.  Teaching Jack how to open a door is something he is going to need to learn how to do.  All kids learn this.  

Yes, they do, but usually not at Jack's young age and usually not because Mommy taught them exactly what to do to get the door open.  There are a lot of things Jack will eventually need to learn to do, he doesn't need to learn the ones that can get him into trouble right now.  If Jack had been a sighted child and his mother taught him how to turn the knob to open the front door, I would also think that was a bad idea.  

[Empress1]

13 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

And how it's unlikely that she'll ever get Joanie to babysit for them again.

I laughed when Jack was like “don’t tell your friends!” I think he knew she was a lost cause (as she should be, I wouldn’t sit for them again either) but was hoping he could find someone at some point.

[Ohiopirate02]

3 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

No, she interrupted the woman Toby and Rebecca were listening to and gave the big speech about how she wouldn’t raise a child with limits.  Maybe later she started using the woman’s ideas, but I can guarantee you the woman would have helped them process the road ahead of them and Kate put a kibosh on that.

Are we watching a different show?  Because everything we have seen since that episode is Kate patiently working with Jack helping him to survive and thrive.  Her knowledge is coming from somewhere.

[ams1001]

23 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

How was Toby supposed to 'safely secure' the kid in his room when his mother had taught the kid how to open doors using the knob?  If Jack could open the front door, he could open the bedroom door, too. Too bad Randall wasn't around to tie the door shut, but Kate would've probably gone off on Toby for that, too.

There was a baby gate across his bedroom door, as well. It looked like the type with a hidden latch that you have to squeeze to open (which I am terrible at figuring out).

[Rootbeer]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

 

I also called out "paranoid, much?" when Toby was grilling Kate about what she and Kevin had been laughing at and assuming it was about him. 

 

As I recall, they WERE talking about him right before they started laughing at the doll.  He isn't paranoid if its really happening.  He's seen time and again that Kevin is way too involved in their marriage and he's not wrong to be disturbed by that, IMO.

15 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Are we watching a different show?  Because everything we have seen since that episode is Kate patiently working with Jack helping him to survive and thrive.  Her knowledge is coming from somewhere.

Then, Kate changed her mind some time after the woman left because she was definitely not on board with the woman's suggestions in that moment.  I also doubt that any educational product for blind children recommends teaching them how to open doorknobs before their sighted peers learn that trick.  Kate seems to be doing her own thing with Jack and some of it is working, some of it is not.  Which is fine, like most parents.  Just as Toby would like to do, if she would ever give him a chance.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Rootbeer

[CountryGirl]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Are we watching a different show?  Because everything we have seen since that episode is Kate patiently working with Jack helping him to survive and thrive.  Her knowledge is coming from somewhere.

Sometimes I think we are. LOL.

The needs assessment consultant also came by within a few days of them bringing home Jack from the hospital, and all of those scary, exciting emotions even with a full-term, no complications or special needs baby, plus a still post-partum Kate. I care far more about her actions since then, which as you say, @Ohiopirate02, have shown her to be a very caring, dedicated mother, then her words under very different circumstances. 

[3 is enough]

Randall and Kevin should have stayed out of the argument between Toby and Kate.  Period. The only scenario where intervention would have been acceptable is if Toby had raised a hand to hit Kate.  I realize the writers were trying to show that Kevin and Randall have always protected their sister, but it was not their place to intervene.

Why did Kate and Toby not have some sort of childproofing on the front door?  I don't get it.  When my granddaughter was 2 she started opening doors.  My son and his wife immediately installed a safety latch.  Heck, we put safety chains on our doors, even though they only visited a few times a year. 

I don't understand why there are pipes running through the ceiling on a one story house.  

I do think Kate is correct in doing everything possible to encourage Jack's independence, but I can see where Toby is coming from too.  I can't fault him for researching options that might have restored Jack's vision. 

[CdrJanny]

1 hour ago, Rootbeer said:

And, Rebecca thought it was great that the kids locked the sitter in the bathroom?  As punishment because Kate didn't like an innocent nickname?  What is wrong with these people?

They're Pearsons. 🤗

[Madding crowd]

9 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

As I recall, they WERE laughing about him.  He isn't paranoid if its really happening.  He's seen time and again that Kevin is way too involved in their marriage and he's not wrong to be disturbed by that, IMO.

They were laughing about the Rebecca doll, Toby had nothing to do with it.

[CountryGirl]

1 minute ago, Madding crowd said:

They were laughing about the Rebecca doll, Toby had nothing to do with it.

There was a comment made about the fight they had had the previous night that Kevin undoubtedly heard because it was loud enough to wake up Jack. They had moved on to the Rebecca Doll and Kevin having the doll call Kate "Bug," which was funny, just before Toby walked in. So yep, the laughing had zero to do with Toby.

[Ohiopirate02]

5 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

As I recall, they WERE laughing about him.  He isn't paranoid if its really happening.  He's seen time and again that Kevin is way too involved in their marriage and he's not wrong to be disturbed by that, IMO.

Then, Kate changed her mind some time after the woman left because she was definitely not on board with the woman's suggestions in that moment.  I also doubt that any educational product for blind children recommends teaching them how to open doorknobs before their sighted peers learn that trick.  Kate seems to be doing her own thing with Jack and some of it is working, some of it is not.  Which is fine, like most parents.  Just as Toby would like to do, if she would ever give him a chance.

Jack is 2 almost 3 at this point.  Opening a door is something sighted kids his age already know how to do.  It's something they figure out on their own.  In newer homes built with more accessible door handles, they learn even earlier.  Kate and Toby are lucky that Jack cannot see how the lock works.  Sighted kids his age can also figure out how to unlock a simple deadbolt at 3 feet high.  

[gameshowjunkie]

42 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

Maybe if Kate had actually listened to the woman they hired when they brought Jack home from the hospital, they would be in a better place with a better understanding of how to parent Jack.

Yep I remember that too. Kate didn't want Jack to have any limitations. Which is a great thought when it comes to school and careers, not so great with any toddler, sighted or not.

[monakane]

14 hours ago, Empress1 said:

14 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

 

Expand  

Baby Jack is adorable. When he was naming the shoes I almost cried.

That kid stole the show.  Give him an Emmy.  I'm assuming that the actor is blind which makes his performance all the more remarkable.

[Rootbeer]

10 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

They were laughing about the Rebecca doll, Toby had nothing to do with it.

I corrected my response, thanks.  It doesn't change the fact that they were discussing the fight that Kate and Tobey had right before that.  Kevin needs to butt out and Kate needs to tell him so.

 

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Jack is 2 almost 3 at this point.  Opening a door is something sighted kids his age already know how to do.  It's something they figure out on their own.  In newer homes built with more accessible door handles, they learn even earlier.  Kate and Toby are lucky that Jack cannot see how the lock works.  Sighted kids his age can also figure out how to unlock a simple deadbolt at 3 feet high.  

Which is why they should have alarms on the doors to the outside, or even one on Jack's bedroom door; so he cannot leave the house on his own.  While all kids learn to open doors eventually, their mothers don't usually teach them how to do it.  If Kate wanted Jack to know how to open doors, she should've done something to make sure he couldn't use that knowledge to get out of the house unsupervised.  

Take a look on Amazon, there are a whole host of easy to install door alarms for use with toddlers, etc that cost under 20 bucks.  4 door knob covers cost under 10 bucks.  I have a dog who figured out how to open a patio door, I know all about dog proofing which, it turns out, is nearly the same as childproofing.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Rootbeer

[Eureka]

10 hours ago, Leeds said:

 

Who's PMJ?

 

 

Phillip Mean Jerk 😆 her new husband.

[Haleth]

It doesn’t seem like Kate told Toby yet that she’s interviewing for a full time job at the school.

[Quickbeam]

5 minutes ago, monakane said:

That kid stole the show.  Give him an Emmy.  I'm assuming that the actor is blind which makes his performance all the more remarkable.

The child has albinism and low vision. Johnny Kincaid…..his mother has an IG feed on him and his progress/condition. He’s just a charmer! 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Quickbeam
Tense

[CountryGirl]

4 minutes ago, Haleth said:

It doesn’t seem like Kate told Toby yet that she’s interviewing for a full time job at the school.

Yes, she did. It came up in their fight that Jack overheard. At least Kate owned up to throwing her hat in the ring right away. 

[tennisgurl]

We discover that the real villain all along wasn't the meat smoker, it was the front door all along. I have tried to be fair to both Kate and Toby, but as many mistakes as Toby has made, I was totally Team Toby this time. Kate has no concept of taking responsibility, blaming Toby for the plumbing leaking even though she could have called a plumber at any time, being the person who lives there, and blamed Toby for Jack getting out, even though she was the one who left the door unlocked and taught him to open it up in the first place. I have no idea how Kate could possibly blame Toby for this, and I think this has some pretty bad implications for Kate in the future. Did Kate let Jack think that Toby was at fault for him getting hurt for his whole life? Was that never cleared up? I can see why Jack would only have a sort of blurred memory of that day, being both blind and a little kid, so he might just associate the smells of the smoker with what ended his parents marriage, which is what I hope it is. He knows that it wasn't really his dads fault its just what he think, or else Kate let him think his dad and his evil meat machine hurt him for his whole life.

I know I'm supposed to see the flashbacks and the end as "Kate's family always has her back" but all I saw was "Kate's family has coddled her to the point where she cant take responsibility for her actions and blames other people for everything that goes wrong. 

I am so glad that Rebecca saved baby Jack, especially after she had felt so useless before. Mandy is just nailing every second of this season, both as older cool Rebecca and young drunk Rebecca. And baby Jack is ridiculously adorable. 

[Ohiopirate02]

6 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I corrected my response, thanks.  It doesn't change the fact that they were discussing the fight that Kate and Tobey had right before that.  Kevin needs to butt out and Kate needs to tell him so.

 

Which is why they should have alarms on the doors to the outside, or even one on Jack's bedroom door; so he cannot leave the house on his own.  While all kids learn to open doors eventually, their mothers don't usually teach them how to do it.  If Kate wanted Jack to know how to open doors, she should've done something to make sure he couldn't use that knowledge to get out of the house unsupervised.  

Take a look on Amazon, there are a whole host of easy to install door alarms for use with toddlers, etc that cost under 20 bucks.  4 door knob covers cost under 10 bucks.  I have a dog who figured out how to open a patio door, I know all about dog proofing which, it turns out, is nearly the same as childproofing.

Yes either Kate or Toby should have purchased and installed door alarms.  It really does not matter who is more at fault here.  Both of them made a mistake and both mistakes lead Jack to leaving the home alone.  Just like both of them are at fault for the state of their marriage.  Neither one is worse than the other.  

At this point both Kate and Toby need to sit down and really talk to each other or divorce.  And I mean talk to each other, and also listen to their partner.  No more dancing around the issues.  Lay out what each needs for a happy marriage and see if they can find a middle ground.  They can't keep on steamrolling over their partner thinking Toby's way is best or Kate's way is best.  

[CdrJanny]

33 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Yes, they do, but usually not at Jack's young age and usually not because Mommy taught them exactly what to do to get the door open.  There are a lot of things Jack will eventually need to learn to do, he doesn't need to learn the ones that can get him into trouble right now.  If Jack had been a sighted child and his mother taught him how to turn the knob to open the front door, I would also think that was a bad idea.  

Any parent who has had a toddler open the door and go outside while the parent was unaware (asleep at 6:00am?) would think it a bad idea.

I never showed my 3-year-old son how to unlock the dead-bolted front door, but he figured out how so he could ride his trike up and down the dead-end street while I was still asleep on Saturday.  I had to have a lock installed at the top of the door that even my 5 foot self found hard to reach and unlock.

[Aloeonatable]

13 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Uh...how is he a douche?

Also, the proposal is the rapid time-line tv has a real problem. People are constantly getting engaged less than year into dating. People do that but you would think the norm was 3 to 6 months if you just followed tv.

 

I started dating my husband at the end of May, engaged in July and married in December (of the same year.) We've been married over 50 years. It can work.

[Eureka]

3 hours ago, suzeecat said:

Sorry to interrupt the important detail discussion with a pretty inconsequential detail, but how did the babysitter contact the restaurant to report that she was locked in the bathroom?  Did they have cell phones in that time?

I’m guessing maybe she was talking on the phone in the bathroom. As we did in those days to have privacy. Showing my age. Lol.

[absnow54]

44 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Yes, they do, but usually not at Jack's young age and usually not because Mommy taught them exactly what to do to get the door open.  There are a lot of things Jack will eventually need to learn to do, he doesn't need to learn the ones that can get him into trouble right now.  If Jack had been a sighted child and his mother taught him how to turn the knob to open the front door, I would also think that was a bad idea.  

Yes, and a song about how to walk to the park by themselves? She should be teaching him to recognize where the sidewalk ends, so he knows not to go any further, and to memorize her cell number or their home address. The songs she was teaching about counting steps are a great learning tool for navigating the house and finding things like the kitchen or the bathroom, but a step by step tutorial on crossing a busy intersection that doesn't have a stop sign is really irresponsible. 

[CrystalBlue]

5 hours ago, hookedontv said:

Another example of Kate’s maturity-not. What adult does that? Especially with a coworker’s name? 

Actually he's her direct boss, as she is the teacher's aide under him.  This is going to be the fastest romance to marriage on TV, save for a Las Vegas drunk wedding as in real life (Britney, Kourtney Kartrashian) send-up.