Season 7 Discussion

[12catcrazy]

Sidney was the original minister - you folks really are referring to Will. 

2 minutes ago, DonnaMae said:

I thought he was very sweet with Bonnie's son, who misses his father.  I imagine Sidney will become his stepfather in the future.

[sugarbaker design]

4 minutes ago, DonnaMae said:

I thought he was very sweet with Bonnie's son, who misses his father.  I imagine Sidney will become his stepfather in the future.

I know you're talking about Will.  I hope Will gets his shit together (i.e., Will's penchant for jazz clubs and loose women) before any kind of relationship starts with Bonnie, she has enough on her plate. 

[SnapHappy]

56 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

I hope Will gets his shit together (i.e., Will's penchant for jazz clubs and loose women) before any kind of relationship starts with Bonnie, she has enough on her plate. 

She knows all about his dalliance with the engaged woman, so I don't think she has any illusions about how "Godly" or mature Will actually is.   

And I can't see Geordie supporting a relationship between them, so whatever she doesn't know about Will's character, I imagine Geordie would fill her in quickly.  

Her kid isn't ready for a new daddy, and I think Bonnie sees that.  I don't think they're going to happen.  

[sugarbaker design]

6 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

She knows all about his dalliance with the engaged woman, so I don't think she has any illusions about how "Godly" or mature Will actually is.   

Does she know Will has repeatedly brought her into the vicarage for sexy time?  That they're keeping Geordie up all night?

They should rename the vicarage Lonesometown!

[christie]

1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

Her kid isn't ready for a new daddy, and I think Bonnie sees that.  I don't think they're going to happen.  

That's interesting 'cause the second I saw her, I knew she was gonna be Will's love interest. The fact that she's Geordie's niece and has a son that Will gets on well with just leads me to believe that they're gonna end up married. 

[J-Man]

I know that between COVID and budget constraints it's not possible to feature every character in each episode, but the missing partners of Leonard and Mrs. C. were making me scream at my TV. Both Leonard and Sylvia were dealing with a lot of stuff this week, and I don't think Daniel was even mentioned. (Mr. C. might have been mentioned briefly but we certainly didn't see him or hear about him participating in any way in Sylvia's crisis.) And when does Mrs. C. have time to do her two jobs (at the vicarage and at Leonard's café) when she seems to be spending all her time staring catatonically at her laundry or screaming at God and waiters? And speaking of The Cherry Orchard--when is it ever open for business? Leonard seems to have an awful lot of free time. And who's doing to cooking and baking?

[christie]

6 minutes ago, J-Man said:

And who's doing to cooking and baking?

Daniel?

[dubbel zout]

59 minutes ago, J-Man said:

(Mr. C. might have been mentioned briefly but we certainly didn't see him or hear about him participating in any way in Sylvia's crisis.)

Mrs. C deliberately hasn't told Mr. C what's going on.

1 hour ago, J-Man said:

And who's doing to cooking and baking?

I thought Mrs. C was doing some of it. The lady likes to keep busy.

[SnapHappy]

2 hours ago, christie said:

That's interesting 'cause the second I saw her, I knew she was gonna be Will's love interest. The fact that she's Geordie's niece and has a son that Will gets on well with just leads me to believe that they're gonna end up married. 

I think inserting Will into a mature, healthy, happy and functional relationship will be the death of the show. 

Geordie & Kathy will get back together.  Sylvia & Jack will get through her medical crisis.  Leonard will continue to low-key hang with Daniel while finding his place in the community.  But Will can't go down that path. 

I like Bonnie just fine, but I can't see Will "evolving" into a faithful partner anytime soon.  And shoehorning him in that spot would ring very false to me.  

[JudyObscure]

6 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

If the writers are smart, they'll expand his part a bit, without getting too sanctimonious and preachy.  We've still got Will for that.  

Will?  Sanctimonious and preachy? I've seen him be lascivious, lazy and drunken, but I can't think of a single moment of those other charges.  If you're talking about those thirty second spots at funerals and church services, well preachers preach.  It's what they're paid to do. 

[12catcrazy]

1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

I think inserting Will into a mature, healthy, happy and functional relationship will be the death of the show. 

Geordie & Kathy will get back together.  Sylvia & Jack will get through her medical crisis.  Leonard will continue to low-key hang with Daniel while finding his place in the community.  But Will can't go down that path. 

I like Bonnie just fine, but I can't see Will "evolving" into a faithful partner anytime soon.  And shoehorning him in that spot would ring very false to me.  

I don't think that we've ever seen Will cheating on anybody or being unfaithful - if anything his issue has been looking for love in all the wrong places.  He's not a bad person at his core - maybe emotionally damaged but I think that as viewers we are going to see that all he needs is the love of a good, AVAILABLE woman to put him on the right path.   And maybe the show's plan (if it continues to exist) is to pair Will with Bonnie and then put him more in the background and show us more Leonard and Geordie working together and make it more about crime solving and less about the local Pastor and his sordid love life.  Unless they marry off Will and send him and Bonnie packing off to somewhere else and bring in yet another damaged young hunky minister to go through the cycle all over again.  

[SnapHappy]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Will?  Sanctimonious and preachy? I've seen him be lascivious, lazy and drunken, but I can't think of a single moment of those other charges.  If you're talking about those thirty second spots at funerals and church services, well preachers preach.  It's what they're paid to do. 

I actually meant that they could still aim Will in that direction to try & turn him into the typical, sappy TV trope: "All a man needs to be changed, is the love of a good woman".   Which to me is total crap.

No, Will has never been preachy & sanctimonious.  However, he deliberately pursued a woman who had committed to marry another man.  NOT cool, and while he didn't cheat on anybody himself, he was complicit.  Splitting hairs for me.  

Edited July 27, 2022 by SnapHappy

[statsgirl]

I found Will's scenes with the boy and his mother so badly written (look! look! see how wonderful Will is with him while Will does everything that he is not supposed to do) that if Bonnie is not endgame for him, she's going to be his serious relationship for a while.

9 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

It's often been said that sometimes one needs a breakdown in order to have a breakthrough, that's where Mrs. C is at now.

I've heard that said, maybe it was the thinking in the 50s.  What we're learning now is that breaking down just makes the problem even worse because it becomes a tar pit people can get trapped in. But then, this show was never great on psychology.

[khyber]

2 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

 show us more Leonard and Geordie working together and make it more about crime solving and less about the local Pastor and his sordid love life.  

Amen!

[sugarbaker design]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I've heard that said, maybe it was the thinking in the 50s.  What we're learning now is that breaking down just makes the problem even worse because it becomes a tar pit people can get trapped in. But then, this show was never great on psychology.

Oh no, it's definitely modern conventional wisdom.  I wasn't posting about pyschology, that's a subject on which I know next to nothing, I was referring to spirituality.  Mrs. C is in a spiritual crisis as well as a physical crisis, her spiritual belief system isn't working for her, she's prime for a big spiritual shift.  I hope it happens in the next few episodes.

Edited July 28, 2022 by sugarbaker design

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

Unless they marry off Will and send him and Bonnie packing off to somewhere else and bring in yet another damaged young hunky minister to go through the cycle all over again.  

I realize this is the shallow end of the pool, but I wouldn't have a problem with Will and Bonnie together and staying on the show. Being married doesn't make him any less hunky. We can still get scenes of him in a tank top, undershirt, tight polo or shirtless whether he's married or single. 

[seacliffsal]

Mrs. C was yelling at God that all she wanted was to be happy and He wouldn't let her be happy.  No, the reason Mrs. C isn't happy is because she refuses to let herself be happy.  She "made" a deal with God and so dedicated her life to the church, not because she wanted to but because she felt obliged.  So she set herself up to not be happy from the beginning.  And, instead of seeing all of the positives in her life, she refuses to see them because they are not how she envisioned her life to be.  She wants God to be responsible for the decisions she has made and that is not how faith works.  Just as when people expect others to make them "happy" it is up to us, not others, to be happy.  She is married, not struggling financially, and has an "adopted" son.  That seems pretty blessed to me.  And, not to diminish the grief, pain, and fear that cancer brings, most of my beloved deceased family members suffered from cancer, Parkinson's, and other terminal illnesses and never did it occur to me that they were being punished (and, of course, that is my perspective only and I understand that others see these same diseases/illnesses as punishment [i.e. Mrs. C]).

[sharifa70]

Mrs. C was a child (14!) when she made her deal with God and it shaped her entire life after that. Assuming she and Tessa Peake-Jones are the same age, she has devoted 50 years to her childish understanding of what that deal meant for her. We’ve seen several events upset her world view over the last few seasons and she has had to adapt. I think she has just reached a very believable point where the change she has to accept is the betrayal of her own body and the prospect of her own imminent mortality, and she’s kind of allowed to freak out about it and melt down. 

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, seacliffsal said:

No, the reason Mrs. C isn't happy is because she refuses to let herself be happy.  She "made" a deal with God and so dedicated her life to the church, not because she wanted to but because she felt obliged.

Well said.  Mrs. C is the perfect example of the Elbert Hubbard quote- "We are punished by our sins, not for them."

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 7/27/2022 at 11:26 AM, sugarbaker design said:

Does she know Will has repeatedly brought her into the vicarage for sexy time?  That they're keeping Geordie up all night?

Bonnie saw Maya at the vicarage where she was clearly leaving a tryst, and thought Will was trying to get over the engaged woman he'd told her about. Then she realized they were one and the same when she saw her with Will at the station.

[cardigirl]

On 7/27/2022 at 1:17 PM, christie said:

That's interesting 'cause the second I saw her, I knew she was gonna be Will's love interest. The fact that she's Geordie's niece and has a son that Will gets on well with just leads me to believe that they're gonna end up married. 

Isn't she Kathy's sister?

[cardigirl]

I very much enjoyed watching Leonard work with Geordie this episode. Leonard is the main reason I keep watching.

I hope Mrs. C tells her husband what is going on soon. It's not fair to lay all of it on Leonard's shoulders.

Bonnie is okay, but I'm not sure she's right for Will. Or rather that Will is right for her. 

[dargosmydaddy]

6 minutes ago, cardigirl said:

Isn't she Kathy's sister?

She's Kathy's niece. 

[cardigirl]

4 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

She's Kathy's niece. 

Yes, thanks, was just coming back to correct that.

[ComeWhatMay]

“A widow to be vicared.”

Will did the right thing there. 

I like that Bonnie’s late husband is thus far a good guy husband and father who just did not light her fire anymore. It happens. 

Ah, Mrs. C. Loved the hug with Will. And Leonard penetrating the lord of the manor aura Will brought to the vicarage. 

[JudyObscure]

Well I loved this episode, even with the sadness. The theme of listening to each other and not making assumptions was a good one.

Mrs. C got her bad news out and now everyone will be more understanding, although ridiculing the bad poet was meaner than I thought she could be.

Kathy can be pretty mean, too.  I'm not really eager to see her get back with Geordie.

The gossip ladies demonstrate their sister-hood!   Nice.

Leonard admitted how much he misses the church.  I thought he probably did.

I don't like Bonnie anymore, with or without foundation garments.  People who are pushy about sex and act entitled to it make me mad.  It's worse when it's the man doing it because he's physically more intimidating, but it's always bad.

Also,  Bonnie,  can anyone ever really know in advance that they're "Really, really good at it?" Doesn't that depend on meeting the unique desires and expectations of the other person?

[Irlandesa]

14 hours ago, ComeWhatMay said:

Will did the right thing there. 

I don't like how he did it.  He Madonna/whored her so hard! He kisses her and then he makes the reasoning all about what's [or what he thinks is] "right" for her even though he's the one with issues.  He even went so far as to dismiss what happened with Maya as "just sex" even though he  only a few weeks ago he "loved" her and was trying to figure out how to keep their affair going. 

Bonnie knows he's a vicar who is DTF and I suspect she knew not to expect too much.  But he decides it's not right for her. Because she's a widow?  Or a mom? 

There were a lot of good reasons for him to hit pause but none of the reasons he gave were actually respectful to Bonnie or owned his own issues. That's why I didn't mind her pushing back on his reasoning.  If she's making it about her virtue, she has a right to argue that point.

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Kathy can be pretty mean, too.  I'm not really eager to see her get back with Geordie

My whole issue with this Geordie/Kathy separation is that I don't think it's addressing the reasons why they're separated.

Last season, because of some retriggered PTSD that he didn't really discuss with anyone, including his wife, Geordie was not a good husband at home.  He wasn't as bad as affair-years Geordie* but he was bad.  And the separation came after Geordie almost hit her.

That's why I'm not mad at the frustration Kathy is showing with Geordie.  I am frustrated that the writing has presented new problems, isn't using their time apart for anything other than bickering and silly games (like the spying) instead of addressing what led to the separation. 

*The fact that Geordie already had an affair with someone in the department half his age is why, even though there does feel like chemistry between them sometimes, I don't want anything to happen between Miss Scott and Geordie.  I much preferred the girl-power moment when they turned his spy attempt against him. 

**As much as the current angst is with Will and Geordie, it isn't as bad as the latter Sydney years with Amanda and Geordie's affair.  At least I feel like mysteries still take up most of the episode.

I'm glad Mrs. C told everyone but sheesh, the husband made it all about him.  Instead of being grateful she had Leonard there for her, he's all mad she didn't tell him first?  She and Leonard have been through stuff together.  I think they see each other as surrogate parents at this point.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Irlandesa

[statsgirl]

The parallel scenes with the ladies at the beginning and then at the end without Natalie was very good.

I don't know what it is with this show but it can make actresses who are good and who I like in other roles into awful people. They did it with Amanda and now they're doing it with Bonnie. It also makes the vicar in question very unlikable as if he's a puppy dog being led around by a pushy, nasty woman.

Hopefully Natalie gets off with a lightish sentence. Neil was assaulting her at the time as he had repeatedly assaulted her before ,

 I liked the swerve in Eleanor from a harridan at the beginning to a woman trying to hold it together with a gambler, head-in-the-sand husband.

Tessa Peake-Jones did a very good job with the role but if I were Mrs. C's husband, I would be reluctant to trust her again. (I may be influenced by the fact that as a cancer survivor myself, I thought that she handled it all badly.)

6 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

My whole issue with this Geordie/Kathy separation is that I don't think it's addressing the reasons why they're separated.

Last season, because of some retriggered PTSD that he didn't really discuss with anyone, including his wife, Geordie was not a good husband at home.  He wasn't as bad as affair-years Geordie* but he was bad.  And the separation came after Geordie almost hit her.

That's why I'm not mad at the frustration Kathy is showing with Geordie.  I am frustrated that the writing has presented new problems, isn't using their time apart for anything other than bickering and silly games (like the spying).

That's a very good point.

I also dislike that they are writing the relationship as if it were in the 2020s rather than the 1960s.  No woman back then would have said "I'm not taking the present because it's transactional." I doubt most people would have known what the word transactional meant.

I also don't like that Kathy isn't showing him any way back. If she's done with the marriage, she's done and should get a divorce. If she's not done, then let him know what she needs from him now beyond being nasty when he gets called in to work when it's his day to take the kids and cutting him down when they're together.

Geordie may not have been a good husband but he was a standard husband for the time. He earned the salary that provided the family with a decent life and he loves his kids. I know someone whose idea of being a good father was taking the kids to the park Saturday morning so that his wife could sleep in. That was it, everything else she did. And this was in the 70s.

[12catcrazy]

Had we been told before that Kathy was pregnant when she and Geordie married?  Is it going to be revealed that she and he felt pressured into getting married because of that?  

I keep feeling like we have this theme here: Mrs. C got pregnant as a young teen and had an abortion.  Kathy got pregnant and Geordie married her.  Then we see the next week sneak peek and Maya is looking very agitated while speaking to Will.  

And what is it with this show that every young woman (and not so young sometimes) woman that Will encounters wants to jump his bones?   Ok, Bonnie is a young widow who is probably missing physical affection but why such directness?  Again, this is supposed to be the 1950s - and some people worried about their "reputation".  I guess that Bonnie can take care of herself but yeah, if a man was pushy to a woman about wanting to go to bed with her, we'd all be going "yecch" and it doesn't seem nicer when the situation is flipped. 

[Daff]

19 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm glad Mrs. C told everyone but sheesh, the husband made it all about him.

He changed his tune pretty quickly though. I think he felt ashamed of his initial snit and exit. And I’m glad they didn’t hold the reconciliation for the next episode. 

[12catcrazy]

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Tessa Peake-Jones did a very good job with the role but if I were Mrs. C's husband, I would be reluctant to trust her again. (I may be influenced by the fact that as a cancer survivor myself, I thought that she handled it all badly.)

I know that this show seems to love portraying the late 50s as if it's the 2000s, but I'm old enough to remember when cancer was not talked about, and even the word itself was almost like a curse word.  John Wayne would always call it "The Big C" when he discussed it and many times when people passed away from it, it was not mentioned in death notices.  

My aunt passed away from throat cancer around 1965 and I remember the hesitation in mentioning "that" disease.  It seemed the feeling was saying the word brought it upon you.

Edited August 1, 2022 by 12catcrazy

[chitowngirl]

Weren’t Will and Bonnie drinking right before she wanted to jump Will? Perhaps he had enough faculties to know she wasn’t that clearheaded for that decision…

[wonderwoman]

1 hour ago, 12catcrazy said:

I know that this show seems to love portraying the late 50s as if it's the 2000s

yes! same with language. can’t remember which woman it was who last night described sex as ‘transactional,’ which very 21st century, not mid-20th.

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I also dislike that they are writing the relationship as if it were in the 2020s rather than the 1960s.  No woman back then would have said "I'm not taking the present because it's transactional." I doubt most people would have known what the word transactional meant.

I also don't like that Kathy isn't showing him any way back. If she's done with the marriage, she's done and should get a divorce. If she's not done, then let him know what she needs from him now beyond being nasty when he gets called in to work when it's his day to take the kids and cutting him down when they're together.

I agree that some of the verbiage is off but I don't think the sentiment is out of touch with the times.  Dinner and jewelry in exchange for sex or romantic favors is as old as time.  She might not have said "transactional" but I also don't think it was weird that she recognized it. 

Just like the flower attempt, it's Geordie trying to do something without listening to what she's telling him.

And she has told him.  The fact that she's not laying things out step-by-step is probably part of the issue.  She had a problem with not feeling like he was a present parent.  She told them that.  Yes, he had to work on a Saturday but she'd probably love it if he thought up ways on his own for him to get more involved in the kid's lives.  Maybe offer to take them out to dinner?  Maybe do a Saturday and a Sunday. 

The term "emotional labor" might be new but the concept of it isn't. 

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

Weren’t Will and Bonnie drinking right before she wanted to jump Will? Perhaps he had enough faculties to know she wasn’t that clearheaded for that decision…

Sure.  But that wasn't a reason he gave.

[seacliffsal]

So Bonnie continues to show us how quirky and 'adorable' she is by coming to church as everyone is leaving in her most casual clothes (wouldn't be done back then) and then drinking directly from the wine bottle when they were in the kitchen.  Just no.  And then Kathy stands for all women by calling jewelry part of a transactional relationship.  Again, no.  I want period pieces to be reflective of the period (silly me).

Right now Leonard is about all I am enjoying of the show.  Mrs. C rejected God because she wasn't happy and then she insults/mocks Leonard's business in front of customers.  She makes her own self unhappy and is trying to make everyone around her unhappy as well.  

Will is just always looking confused IMO.

[ComeWhatMay]

Will/Bonnie is trying too hard and very rushed to me. It’s a shame as the actors are naturals. I loved the actress on Call the Midwife, but here what I think is intended to come across as free spirited and ahead of her time comes across as crass and classless. 

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Mrs. C got her bad news out and now everyone will be more understanding, although ridiculing the bad poet was meaner than I thought she could be.

I didn't expect her to be that mean/funny about it!

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't like Bonnie anymore, with or without foundation garments.  People who are pushy about sex and act entitled to it make me mad.  It's worse when it's the man doing it because he's physically more intimidating, but it's always bad.

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't like how he did it.  He Madonna/whored her so hard! He kisses her and then he makes the reasoning all about what's [or what he thinks is] "right" for her even though he's the one with issues.  He even went so far as to dismiss what happened with Maya as "just sex" even though he  only a few weeks ago he "loved" her and was trying to figure out how to keep their affair going. 

Bonnie knows he's a vicar who is DTF and I suspect she knew not to expect too much.  But he decides it's not right for her. Because she's a widow?  Or a mom? 

These two ideas are imo both true and really sum up the scene. On one hand, it doesn't matter what reason the guy gave for not wanting to sleep with her, it's a no and she's not entitled to sex.

But otoh, she's got every right to object to what he's telling her just on principle as condescending. Madonna/whoring her and not owning his issues really nails it. How has he decided that a woman he saw dancing sexily in a club and wanted to sleep with before knowing her name, and continued sleeping with after he knew she was engaged...how is this woman somehow capable of informed consent to sex while the unattached widow is not? That's obivously all about him. And it doesn't help that the first woman isn't white (though I'm not always sure if we're meant to read non-white appearing actors as playing someone meant to be non-white in the 50s.)

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm glad Mrs. C told everyone but sheesh, the husband made it all about him.  Instead of being grateful she had Leonard there for her, he's all mad she didn't tell him first?  She and Leonard have been through stuff together.  I think they see each other as surrogate parents at this point.

The minute the husband said that wanted somebody to say, "You are not going to make this about you right now!"

But after that moment, he was certainly right to talk to her about it because that's a big red flag that she was hiding that from him for that long. I didn't buy her explanation to him at all. I just didn't see her at all worried about breaking his heart telling him.

To me it seemed much more tied in with her issues about sex. She stopped sharing a bed with the guy and was ashamed that the cancer was related to her female parts. She was more comfortable talking about it with Leonard and the reasons to me seem more naturally related to that as well. Leonard's a gay man. That means a) she thinks he doesn't look at women the way other men do and so her body can just be a body, b) he's committed sins as bad as she did and c) he's already been humiliated before her by her finding out about his gay sex life. Not that I think she's thinking of any of these things consciously, and of course there's their personal relationship there too. But that makes more sense to me than her secretly worried about her husband's pain at her being sick all this time. (The episode even lampshaded women/gay man friendships.)

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I also dislike that they are writing the relationship as if it were in the 2020s rather than the 1960s.  No woman back then would have said "I'm not taking the present because it's transactional." I doubt most people would have known what the word transactional meant.

I also don't like that Kathy isn't showing him any way back. If she's done with the marriage, she's done and should get a divorce. If she's not done, then let him know what she needs from him now beyond being nasty when he gets called in to work when it's his day to take the kids and cutting him down when they're together.

Geordie may not have been a good husband but he was a standard husband for the time. He earned the salary that provided the family with a decent life and he loves his kids. I know someone whose idea of being a good father was taking the kids to the park Saturday morning so that his wife could sleep in. That was it, everything else she did. And this was in the 70s.

36 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Just like the flower attempt, it's Geordie trying to do something without listening to what she's telling him.

And she has told him.  The fact that she's not laying things out step-by-step is probably part of the issue.  She had a problem with not feeling like he was a present parent.  She told them that.  Yes, he had to work on a Saturday but she'd probably love it if he thought up ways on his own for him to get more involved in the kid's lives.  Maybe offer to take them out to dinner?  Maybe do a Saturday and a Sunday. 

The term "emotional labor" might be new but the concept of it isn't. 

I admit I lean a little more toward statsgirl here. I don't think Kathy's wrong for wanting what she wants from her marriage and she shouldn't have to do all the emotional labor. But it seems like all she mostly does with Geordie is tell him whatever he's tried to do to show affection is wrong and I just don't think the guy's going to get whatever she wants from that.

Like in this ep, he's grown up in a society that tells him that jewelry is a way to show your wife you love her. It's romantic. I think he was completely confused by her saying it was transactional and meant he expected sex from it because he didn't expect her to have sex with him. Same with the flowers. Plus even when they look at their own marriage, if it was a movie, he seems to have watched the original and now she's only seen the remake. So it makes sense to me that he never seems to be learning anything, just getting confused.

So yeah, I do feel like she needs to either divorce him if she's done or yes, lay it out step by step and explain to him exactly why what he's doing hurts her feelings and what he needs to do in response. If he just fails to give her what she needs because he doesn't care, that's--again--a reason to divorce him. Continuing setting up tests he doesn't know about and then fails because he hasn't studied is pointless. He's not going to magically turn into the guy she wants him to be because that's the guy the woman she's turned into would like. Just because you had an a-ha moment when reading something in a book doesn't mean quoting it at someone else will be effective.

In fact, to me all these things seem to have that original thing in common: people focusing on fixing issues that aren't the issues that are causing the problem. Geordie doesn't act the way he does because he doesn't love Kathy, and not even just because he's doing what's expected of a man at that time (although that's obviously part of it) it's that he's really repressed so a lot of stuff she's asking him to do is probably a little scary. Will's in love with what's her face and hesitant to get with Bonnie because for him the self-sabotage and self-destructiveness is the attraction. Mrs. C didn't lie to her husband about being sick because she was afraid of hurting him, but because she thinks no husband would want a woman with a diseased womb--if he'd even consider her a woman. 

[gingerella]

On 7/18/2022 at 8:03 PM, Shanna Marie said:

She may be the "good girl" vs. the woman who's engaged to someone else, but she's also not rigidly traditional in spite of being a widowed mom. She's not the typical 50s housewife that Will would find boring.

Oh Bonnie is perfect for Will. She can be the proper Vicar's wife on Sundays, but also the wife who forgets to wear her knickers out in public sometimes too...perfect for Will...

Also, I'm with those here who'd love to see a side series starring Leonard and Mrs. C.

Edited August 1, 2022 by gingerella

[Sarah 103]

19 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Like in this ep, he's grown up in a society that tells him that jewelry is a way to show your wife you love her. It's romantic. I think he was completely confused by her saying it was transactional and meant he expected sex from it because he didn't expect her to have sex with him. Same with the flowers.

Yes, to your point about how Geordie saw jewlery and flowers. Also, it's worth pointing out in this case Geordie wasn't the one who bought the necklace. I think Bonnie purchased it, gave it to Will, who then passed it to Geordie to give to Kathy. Geordie had no idea what was in the box (if my understanding of what happened is correct). 

Dickens was either trying to avoid the vicarge burning down, or is not on board with Bonnie and Will as couple. 

The only way the other women in church accepting Daniel makes sense is that they think they can change him (thinking from a 1959 perspective). They think he hasn't found the right woman yet, and if they can find the right woman for him he can change/be cured. The alternative is that is just another anachronism and having 2020s values in a show that is set in the late 1950s. 

[sistermagpie]

47 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Yes, to your point about how Geordie saw jewlery and flowers. Also, it's worth pointing out in this case Geordie wasn't the one who bought the necklace. I think Bonnie purchased it, gave it to Will, who then passed it to Geordie to give to Kathy. Geordie had no idea what was in the box (if my understanding of what happened is correct). 

That's how I remember it too. The guy was totally set up. He didn't even know she'd be there.

47 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Dickens was either trying to avoid the vicarge burning down, or is not on board with Bonnie and Will as couple. 

LOL. Wise dog.

47 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

The only way the other women in church accepting Daniel makes sense is that they think they can change him (thinking from a 1959 perspective). They think he hasn't found the right woman yet, and if they can find the right woman for him he can change/be cured. The alternative is that is just another anachronism and having 2020s values in a show that is set in the late 1950s. 

When it was first happening I thought they weren't meant to know he was gay at all, they just naturally found him pleasant to hang around with--particularly with the contrast to the misogynist rapist constantly talking about how much he hated women (sorry "joking around"). But then Daniel seemed to suggest they liked him because he was exotic and that seemed pretty unlikely for a small village at that time. At best they'd just have told themselves he wasn't really gay, he just hadn't found the right girl yet.

[OlderThanDirt]

I was glad that the writers remembered Daniel and gave him something to do relating to the crime that used his photography knowledge.  I liked his sidebar comments at the fundraiser. 

I hope the coven of ladies at the end were on their way to the French girl's trial to support her and testify regarding the sleazy victim. But in the long run, I think their group will split up out of embarrassment. 

Can't decide what the plan is for the young curate wannabe.

[Cetacean]

24 minutes ago, OlderThanDirt said:

Can't decide what the plan is for the young curate wannabe.

I wonder that myself.  He seems kind of superfluous so far.

I agree with those that believe we look at a lot of the behaviors through today's lenses (bifocals, in my case).  I was a kid in the 50's and I don't have any recollection of frank talk about sex even when eavesdropping on adults. 

At the same time, nobody talked about cancer, either, except in a whisper and with a look of doom on their faces.  And frankly, that was appropriate since the mortality was pretty high with few good treatments.

I am glad that Mrs. C fessed up so that she can get more support from everyone and not rely entirely on Leonard.

I think it's going to take some big event to bring Kathy and Geordie back together.   I don't think marriage counseling was a thing back then and they are clearly spinning their wheels right now.  Maybe some crisis with the kids?

What to say about Bonnie.....she was knocking back the wine, and if she's not used to drinking that might have contributed to lowering her inhibitions.  But the glimpse of Maya in the coming attractions made my heart sink.

[buttersister]

So it seems like Kathy thinks that Geordie is a big detective, he should investigate and solve what's wrong with their marriage. Tip to Kathy: Doesn't work that way with all the emotional grenades that are scattered around. 

Typical that Will and Bonnie, mostly Bonnie, would plot to get her aunt and uncle back together--hope she's better at everything else than she is at this. But not so sure😃

[sugarbaker design]

Even though Will has been acting like a huge tool this season, I did manage to shed a tear when Will and Mrs. C embraced at the end of the episode.

Bonus: a Dickens sighting!

Edited August 1, 2022 by sugarbaker design

[Lake Erie Lass]

Kathy’s so angry at this point that she won’t look beyond her own issues. One of the things every cop show since time immemorial has mentioned is that for the most part cops are a bad risk in the marriage department. This is primarily because of 1–unexpected schedule changes, (having to work long shifts or come in on days off),and 2–constantly being exposed to the really horrible nature of many crimes. That can eventually lead to depression and emotional trauma. Put that on top of the emotional scars that many men suffered after WW2, and you have someone like Geordie. Don’t know if they had therapists or marriage counselors back in the late 50’s but Kath and Geordie both need to walk a day in the other’s shoes. 

[Driad]

9 minutes ago, Lake Erie Lass said:

Don’t know if they had therapists or marriage counselors back in the late 50’s

Wasn't that part of a vicar's job?

[Sarah 103]

6 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

When it was first happening I thought they weren't meant to know he was gay at all, they just naturally found him pleasant to hang around with--particularly with the contrast to the misogynist rapist constantly talking about how much he hated women (sorry "joking around"). But then Daniel seemed to suggest they liked him because he was exotic and that seemed pretty unlikely for a small village at that time. At best they'd just have told themselves he wasn't really gay, he just hadn't found the right girl yet.

I am now wondering if I misunderstood some lines of dialogue. I thought the other women knew Daniel was gay, but in the thinking of the era, thought it was something that could be changed/cured with the love of the right woman. Is it possible the woman have no idea that Daniel is gay but instead think he is an artistic/exotic single young man who wasn't found the woman of his dreams yet? 

@OlderThanDirt I liked that we got to see Daniel be useful and help solve the case. What is the current situation with Daniel and Leonard? Are they together as a romantic couple (but trying to keep it hidden for obvious reasons)? Are they living together? 

[statsgirl]

1 minute ago, Driad said:

Wasn't that part of a vicar's job?

Yes. and some of them were so very bad at it.  "Quit your job, welcome your husband back, and be an obedient wife."

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I agree that some of the verbiage is off but I don't think the sentiment is out of touch with the times.  Dinner and jewelry in exchange for sex or romantic favors is as old as time.

Maybe with a stranger in an early date, but not with your husband. of 15+ years who is growing flowers for you and keeps asking you if he can come home again. Geordie didn't expect to see her but he gives her a necklace with her favourite stone and she thinks he just wants to sleep with her? Sex with a longterm spouse doesn't get bought like that.

If I squint very hard, I can see it as the writers wanting to show that now that Kathy is working outside her home she's becoming a Modern Woman influenced by the Feminine Mystique and aware of terms like transactional. They're writing it badly. That to every nice memory Kathy has to add something nasty about Geordie isn't making her a sympathetic character.

48 minutes ago, Lake Erie Lass said:

This is primarily because of 1–unexpected schedule changes, (having to work long shifts or come in on days off),and 2–constantly being exposed to the really horrible nature of many crimes. That can eventually lead to depression and emotional trauma.

And 3 - police are the most likely to be domestic abusers because they are used to having people do what they say, and to throwing their weight around.

[sistermagpie]

20 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

And 3 - police are the most likely to be domestic abusers because they are used to having people do what they say, and to throwing their weight around.

That's the first thing I thought of, I admit. And plenty are probably already bullies who become police in order to throw their weight around even more.

But very rarely on TV, especially on a procedural like this!