S01.E01: Never the New

[OtterMommy]

Quote

After the death of her father, Marian Brook moves from rural Pennsylvania to New York City to live with her wealthy aunts.

Air date: January 24, 2022

[TV Diva Queen]

I’m early….

[Brn2bwild]

I liked this better as it went along.  At first most of the characters - especially Marian - felt so wooden, but they became less so.  I like the sisters, Peggy, and Mrs. Russell the best.  The servants seem to exist to be exposition machines with no lives of their own, except for the Russells' version of Mrs. O'Brien.  

Regardless of how the story fares, we will always have clothes and scenery porn.

[SailorGirl]

I enjoyed it -- snarky Christine Baranski is never bad, and she's clearly got a kind heart once you get past the "we are OLD New York" attitude.  

I like the way Cynthia Nixon is playing the spinster sister/aunt -- especially after the butchering of Miranda on And Just Like That. She's clearly going to be the unexpected voice of reason/go-between of the general clashes. 

And as Brn2bwild says, the clothes and scenery porn are clearly not going to disappoint! 

[Brian Cronin]

Overall, I thought it was an excellent start and I imagine that it will only get better as it goes along and we get more familiar with the characters. Louisa Jacobson looks like her sisters a lot. It's kind of weird just HOW similar they all look. I guess that's why she goes by her middle name so she stands out a bit from them.

Morgan Spector (Mr. Russell) has got to become a famous narrator in the future (he's already done narration work, but on silly stuff. I mean big deal stuff, like PBS documentaries ant the like) as his voice is amazing.

I, too, was very impressed by how Nixon played her character. Very intentionally demure. It was quite impressive.

I adore shows that take full advantage of all the amazing actors New York has and this was just filed to the brim with amazing theater actors in great parts. 

Hopefully this does well enough to get more than a season! I'm into it so far. 

[Bliss]

Love that my 2 fave characters from The Good Fight are back together again - Christine Baranski and Audra McDonald (I think it was her... playing the mother of the Peggy Scott character?).

This show looks interesting. The costuming alone is amazing. Besides, any show with horses (and dogs) is a winner in my world.

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, Bliss said:

Audra McDonald (I think it was her.

Yes, indeed.  I wonder if she and Christine will have any scenes together since Peggy links them.

I loved it, but then I have such a romantic fondness for this period.  (In a few years my great grandfather will open a bakery just around the corner from the Russell's mansion.)  Funny, watching the trailer I had such sympathy for Bertha Russell vs that mean Old NY establishment, yet watching the show she comes across as so pushy and vulgar.  I can see her someday shopping her daughter to British nobility to impress Mrs Astor.  No wonder the sisters want to avoid her.  Marian is sweet and more plucky than I imagined she would be.  The Russell son is apparently going to be her love interest but right now he is kind of bland.  I hope Agnes's son isn't going to be the bad guy who rats Marian out.

Yes, the costumes and the sets!  Breathtaking.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Haleth

[MamaMax]

I enjoyed this A LOT. Exposition heavy, to be expected in a first episode.  I was having fun playing SPOT THE MANSION as I have had the great fortune to visit the Newport mansions on may occasions!  I am a total sucker for this era of NY history and cant wait to see more!! 

 

[Popples]

I really enjoyed this, although I know it's going to take a few more weeks to get all the names straight. I had so much fun squeeing over all the Broadway actors! I absolutely clocked Oscar and whichever Adams scion that was had a thing going on.

I loved Marion's dress that she attended to go to the Russell's ball, it totally gave Belle vibes.

[Colorado David]

Trains. Killer scenery. Killer hairstyles. Amazing clothes. Pacing like Downton. Even the soundtrack sounds somewhat Downtonny.  I'm all in and pleased so far. Loving Nixon's character. Baranski seems very dowager-ish.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Colorado David

[Straycat80]

I loved this! I knew I would because I love this age in US history. This is kind of the US Downton Abbey. The scenery, houses, and fashion porn are great. The class system of Old vs. New money. Upstairs and downstairs servant drama. 
I like Christina B. and Cynthia Nixon as the aunts. I can’t wait to see if they find out the nephew is gay. Also like the friendship between Marian and Peggy and see where their stories go. The actress playing Marian kind of looks like Princess Diana. 
It’s also nice to see Taissa Farmiga in something other than American Horror Story.

I didn’t like Mrs. Russell at first but by the end I was rooting for her, she’s a fighter. 

[Angeleyes]

I feel like they tried to throw too much at the audience in the beginning. The episode was better in the back half when it was focusing on the 3 families. I think that’s typical for a pilot episode though and it will continue to improve as it goes along and we can learn about the characters. As mentioned, the scenery and costumes were beautiful if a bit heavy on the CGI in some scenes. 
Did anyone catch a vibe between the Russell son and the guy confirmed as gay later in the episode? They also seemed to be possibly pairing Russell with Marian. It will be interesting to see if they make him Bi. I think Mrs Russell tried a little too soon for a big ball type party at her new home. She probably should have planned a ladies tea or something first. She just met these people. They are going to take some time to warm to her. Giving off the air of social climber is not helping her cause. 

[Bliss]

27 minutes ago, Straycat80 said:

 The actress playing Marian kind of looks like Princess Diana. 

She's Meryl Streep's daughter... her name is Louisa Jacobson.

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, Angeleyes said:

the guy confirmed as gay later in the episode?

Did we see him earlier in the episode?  (I mean the other guy, not the cousin.)

[eleanorofaquitaine]

24 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Did we see him earlier in the episode?  (I mean the other guy, not the cousin.)

If you are referring to the guy that the cousin hooked up with then yes - the cousin brought his friend John Adams IV to the house, and met Marian. Christine Baranski implied it would be good for Marian to get to know him for marriage mart purposes, and Marian made a valiant effort but John Adams IV pretty decidedly shut that down (she said something like, "maybe you can show me some of your favorite places around New York," and he was like, "I'll send you a list.").  And then we found out why when he was hooking up with her cousin.

If you are referring to Larry Russell, then we saw Larry interacting with the cousin in Newport earlier in the episode. Personally, I don't think we're supposed to think Larry is gay or bi. I think the point of that scene was to see that the cousin was saying unpleasant things about his cousin before even meeting her. (And also, that Larry had some information about Marian before saving the dog and meeting her, but that information about her attractiveness and what have you, was incorrect). 

Edited January 25, 2022 by eleanorofaquitaine

[The Pretender]

I liked the first episode a lot. A whole lot. I agree the time period gives us lots to look at - dresses, hair/hats, lavarish interiors, "street life" - and this show gets an A+ for all of it. I liked that the opening gave us the Russells without actually showing us the Russells. Nicely done. 

I'm a big fan of Carrie Coon but since I know just how great she can be it will be nice to see her grow in to this role even better. I liked her chemistry with Morgan Spector. I hope her lady's maid Turner will fail miserably with whatever she's trying with Mr Russell. It's too soon to tell if he has a wandering eye or not & I guess that will also play in to what's to come. It's also nice to see a sibling pair that actually likes each other - Gladys & Larry. Taissa Farmiga is like the female version of Leo, she just never ages lol. 

I had no idea Jeanne Tripplehorn was in the cast as well. I had to go to the web to make sure my eyes weren't deceiving me. I can't wait to find out why Sylvia Chamberlain's mysterious past excludes her from high society. (quoted from an article I found online)

I appreciated the 'inside the episode' video. I wonder if they will keep doing that or if it was just for this opening episode. Either way I have a feeling I will enjoy this show throughout the season. 

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

If you are referring to the guy that the cousin hooked up with then yes - the cousin brought his friend John Adams IV to the house, and met Marian.

That’s who I meant. I didn’t realize he was the same person. Thanks!

[Hedgehog2022]

I loved it...I had read last year about the dilemma of filming this during the COVID outbreaks, It's actually quite impressive that this got put together at all with so many delays in filming and protocols that had to be followed. If anyone could do this and put it together so well it's Julian Fellowes. 

[edhopper]

I mainly watched for the period scenery, which was well done. But they have to make the streets dirtier. Even in the posh areas, there was soot and horse droppings all over.

[Melina22]

1 hour ago, The Pretender said:

I appreciated the 'inside the episode' video. I wonder if they will keep doing that or if it was just for this opening episode. Either way I have a feeling I will enjoy this show throughout the season. 

Where did you see it? 

[Carolina Girl]

I see I'm not the only one who thought George and Bertha Russell bore more than a little resemblance to Willie K and Alva Vanderbilt:

https://www.cengnews.com/entertainment/bertha-and-george-russell-a-fictional-couple-from-the-gilded-age-are-based-on-a-real-couple-216431.html

So whoever upthread predicted the daughter would be married off to a European noble may have been right on target, as it was Alva who forced her daughter Consuelo's disastrous marriage to the Duke of Marlborough.  

[Brian Cronin]

3 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

If you are referring to Larry Russell, then we saw Larry interacting with the cousin in Newport earlier in the episode. Personally, I don't think we're supposed to think Larry is gay or bi. I think the point of that scene was to see that the cousin was saying unpleasant things about his cousin before even meeting her. 

I slightly disagree. Not that Russell is gay or bi, but I think the point of that interaction was to show that Oscar is attracted to Larry, which I think he makes reference to when hooking up with John later on. I mean, yes, him insulting his cousin was noteworthy, as well, but I think the main aspect of that scene was to show that Oscar was interested in one of the two people in that scene (Carrie or Larry) and the later confirmation that he is gay shows that it was Larry that he was into in that scene. 

Well, and him making a comment about Larry while hooking up with John, of course.

[meep.meep]

To me this felt like lesser Fellowes - about even with Belgravia and far below Downton or Gosford Park.  The sets, costumes, and acting are splendid, but most of the characters are 2 dimensional at best, and you can see the plot coming a mile away.  Couldn't Larry Russell be into Peggy rather than Marion, for example?

[Ms Blue Jay]

17 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

Regardless of how the story fares, we will always have clothes and scenery porn.

And food....... And Morgan Spector......... 

I can't believe that Carrie Coon's part was almost played by Amanda Peet.  I feel like that would feel very differently.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[cardigirl]

22 minutes ago, meep.meep said:

To me this felt like lesser Fellowes - about even with Belgravia and far below Downton or Gosford Park.  The sets, costumes, and acting are splendid, but most of the characters are 2 dimensional at best, and you can see the plot coming a mile away.  

This is how I felt during the episode.  There were glimmers of what might be full-fledged character-building, but for the most part it was predictable.   Beautiful sets and costumes, of course.  But then, after the first season, I didn't really care for Downton either apart from the scenery.  

Interesting that the Russells used Stanford White as their architect.  I wonder if the show will cover that scandal.  (We're a few years away from it in the current timeline of the show.) 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by cardigirl

[tennisgurl]

I really enjoyed this, I am a real sucker for a period piece, especially from this era, so I am already sold. The clothes, costumes, mansions, even if the story itself ends up not being very good I'm here for the period porn alone. Luckily the show also has a great cast and the story and character have a lot of potential. The Gilded Age is a really interesting period in history and it seems like they are giving us a lot of avenues to explore it. At first most of the characters seemed pretty one note, but by the end of the episode you could see more sides coming out. 

Christine Baranski is perfectly cast as the smart tongued grand dame aunt, and while I have not been thrilled with Cynthia Nixon lately, after the mess over on Sex and the City, I thought she was really good here as the sweet quiet spinster aunt. I always love Carrie Coon and I like her go big or go home attitude when it comes to breaking into high society. I do feel bad for her quiet daughter, who her mom seems to be keeping behind closed doors. 

A lot of interesting parallels to the first episode of Downton Abbey. Both start with a butler bringing news of a death in the family, which leads to the arrival of a less sophisticated relative that the rich branch of the family doesn't know well, who becomes the audience surrogate character. Also, it might just be a coincidence, but its funny that both episodes are also connected to the Titanic. The whole plot of Downton kicks off when their heirs die onboard Titanic, this episode prominently featured real life socialite Caroline Astor, who's son John Jacob Astor died on the Titanic years after this. Also both of them seem to be going for the same sorts of themes, old money vs new money, the old money trying to hold onto their place in a rapidly changing society, tons of cool hats. 

[The Pretender]

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

Where did you see it? 

For some reason it's in/after the promo for next episode over at SpoilerTV Here

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, Carolina Girl said:

So whoever upthread predicted the daughter would be married off to a European noble may have been right on target, as it was Alva who forced her daughter Consuelo's disastrous marriage to the Duke of Marlborough.  

Yes indeed. There is a fascinating book called The Husband Hunters about this. One motive the mothers had for selling their daughters was social status. As the mother of a duchess she would rank higher than Mrs Astor and would be in high demand at social functions.

I gasped at the mention of Stanford White too. But of course he designed the house. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Haleth

[Carolina Girl]

23 minutes ago, Haleth said:

Yes indeed. There is a fascinating book called The Husband Hunters about this. One motive the mothers had for selling their daughters was social status. As the mother of a duchess she would rank higher than Mrs Astor and would be in high demand at social functions.

I gasped at the mention of Stanford White too. But of course he designed the house. 

I loved how the book "Little Gloria.....Happy at Last" started off with a substantial history of the Vanderbilts and their history and marriages.  I'll have to look for The Husband Hunters.  There was a short series (only about eight episodes, I think) called "Million Dollar American Princesses" which, at least in the initial episodes, chronicled these society marriages to English nobility.  And it was always the new money.  

[Melina22]

I was obsessed with the gorgeous gowns in the episode, often pausing the scene to just look, especially at Carrie's astounding outfits. Some of her hats were... very strange. I remarked to my husband that I wondered what people of that time would make of us in quarantine, slouching on our couches in pj's and sweats. (Horrified? Jealous?) 

I always wonder how people then really talked. Somehow I always picture them as sounding more British than American. I wonder how accurate the accents are on this show. 

This is why I have to keep rewinding shows like this. There's so much to look at and think about, I keep forgetting to pay attention to the plot. 😁

[vesperholly]

The actress playing Louisa was stiff and wooden. Hopefully this will improve as the season goes. None of the characters really caught my interest, and were way too busy with explaining everything to have any kind of personality.

The photography (filmography?) was also really terrible - overly bright scenes, flat lighting and garish colors.

I'll keep watching but I don't expect to get emotionally involved like with Downton!

[Paws]

1 hour ago, Carolina Girl said:

There was a short series (only about eight episodes, I think) called "Million Dollar American Princesses" which, at least in the initial episodes, chronicled these society marriages to English nobility.  And it was always the new money.  

As a fictional example lady Cora Grantham from Downton Abbey was new money married off Lord Grantham.  So the parallels continue!

[CouchTater]

I liked it much more than I expected.  Downton Abbey lost me by the 3rd season (too soapy, silly plots, too much Mary, etc).  The only part of this episode that made me groan was the very reveal-y cousin with his boyfriend.  I felt as though I was expected to gasp in surprise, but I was just like... "meh, of course."

I did enjoy the beautiful sets, scenery and period clothing.  Gorgeous.  All of it.  I'm in.

[TexasGal]

Kudos to Carrie Coon - I was both extremely irritated with Mrs. Russell’s climbing, and upset knowing nowhere near 200 people were going to show up at that party.   

[buttersister]

I’m here for the cast, the costumes, sets and Bertha’s (Alva’s) revenge (assumed, no spoilers). The dialogue is craptastic Fellowes as usual, but it won’t be worse than Downton and we get past that.

[Brian Cronin]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Interesting that the Russells used Stanford White as their architect.  I wonder if the show will cover that scandal.  (We're a few years away from it in the current timeline of the show.) 

Sadly, it's like 20 years off. 

[Brn2bwild]

4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I was obsessed with the gorgeous gowns in the episode, often pausing the scene to just look, especially at Carrie's astounding outfits. Some of her hats were... very strange. I remarked to my husband that I wondered what people of that time would make of us in quarantine, slouching on our couches in pj's and sweats. (Horrified? Jealous?) 

I always wonder how people then really talked. Somehow I always picture them as sounding more British than American. I wonder how accurate the accents are on this show. 

This is why I have to keep rewinding shows like this. There's so much to look at and think about, I keep forgetting to pay attention to the plot. 😁

I think I remember reading that the accents (I think they're called "Midatlantic") were acquired, not natural.  They got them in prep school, which taught them to imitate British upper class accents.

[Nedsdag]

Thank you, Julian Fellowes, for saving me from binging Downton Abbey for the umpteenth time. It started off slowly, but it got better towards the end. No, it's not exactly an American Downton Abbey, but it kept my interest. I need Marian's character to show a bit more grit. Hopefully, the writers (*cough*Fellowes*cough*) will give the characters a bit more oomph like its predecessors.

Good:

• Bertha Russell. I didn't recognize Carrie Coon until I read another review (she was Ben Affleck's twin sister in Gone, Girl), but what a standout performance. It'll be interesting to see if there will be a bit more nuance in her character as was seen at the end of the episode.
• Christine Baranski can read the phone book. She can go from a Diane Lockhart on The Good Wife/Fight to an Agnes Van Rhijn with the snap of her finger. But, hopefully, they won't make her an American Dowager Duchess with the snappy lines. 
• It wouldn't be a Fellowes production without the Upstairs/Downstairs feel with the hired help. There's even a Miss O'Brien, who will stir the pot, particularly with Mr. Russell.
• Love, love, love the production stages, and or course, the costumes. Emmys for all.

Bad:

• The Peggy character's story line seems forced. Hopefully, it'll get better in the upcoming episodes. They'll have to explain her family "issues" and like Marian, her character needs to be fleshed out more.
• You could see Oscar Van Rhijn from a mile away. He's a cross between Chuck Bass of Gossip Girl and Thomas Barrow from Downton Abbey. He's very persnickety, and of course, he'll play both sides of the fence. Too obvious.
• I hope there's more to Ava Brook than just the doting spinster aunt. But, I'm sure Cynthia Nixon will bring more to it.

All in all, I'll give the pilot a solid B+. There's room for improvement, and unlike the show's original network NBC, HBO is dedicated to its success. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Nedsdag

[MBayGal]

An earlier post mentioned Jeanne Tripplehorn.  I remember her from Big Love, but did not recognize her here.  What character does she play?  IMDB shows her in all 10 eps, but does not give her character name, unlike for her other roles, and the HBO cast list doesn't give her character name either.

[Brn2bwild]

3 minutes ago, MBayGal said:

An earlier post mentioned Jeanne Tripplehorn.  I remember her from Big Love, but did not recognize her here.  What character does she play?  IMDB shows her in all 10 eps, but does not give her character name, unlike for her other roles, and the HBO cast list doesn't give her character name either.

She was Sylvia Chamberlain.  We got only a glimpse of her.

[Kleav]

1 hour ago, Brn2bwild said:

Sylvia Chamberlain

Augusta.

[Brn2bwild]

3 minutes ago, Kleav said:

Augusta.

If so, Wikipedia is wrong. I think her husband's name is Augustus.

[Kleav]

50 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

If so, Wikipedia is wrong. I think her husband's name is Augustus

Oops, you’re right: first name Sylvia.  But they kept saying “Mrs. Augusta Chamberlain,” not Augustus. Closed captioning also said Augusta. 

[Cheezwiz]

I thoroughly enjoyed this first episode, but I'm a sucker for period pieces, so I was agog at the costumes and sets.

Characters are a bit one-note at the moment, and for now, it doesn't look like Louisa Jacobson has inherited her Mom's (Meryl Streep) talent - she was pretty wooden in this episode. Her sister Mamie Gummer is very talented but this is the first thing I've seen Louisa in.

Loved that they're slipping real historical people into the story here and there - especially Stanford White - we're still a couple of decades away from his mega-scandal, but it's tantalizing seeing him in the mix.

Some of the mansions that these nouveau-riche robber barons built in Manhattan were mind-blowing, and of course, very few remain. I'm fascinated by all of this Edith Wharton era stuff, and there's a ton of great reading material out there for those that are curious - Wharton's work, plus there's a really interesting book called "Empty Mansions" of an heiress named Hugette Clark who was from a wealthy family in that era. She wound up becoming a complete recluse and shut-in in her old age, and wound up abandoning all of her massive mansions.

It has a carbon-copy feel to Downton, and even more so, another series titled "Belgravia" which I believe Fellowes also had a hand in. It also dealt with nouveau-riche arrivistes and the development of the Belgravia neighborhood in London. Got bored with that one and gave up. I think the American version is more engaging so far.

Very curious to know what the scandal involving the mysterious Mrs. Chamberlain is - I wonder if her husband was a Gilded Age Bernie Madoff?

Who was Oscar (Aunt Agnes's son) making out with in his bedroom? Was it a friend from Newport or a servant? I couldn't ID his character.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Cheezwiz

[EtheltoTillie]

On 1/25/2022 at 12:21 AM, Bliss said:

Love that my 2 fave characters from The Good Fight are back together again - Christine Baranski and Audra McDonald (I think it was her... playing the mother of the Peggy Scott character?).

This show looks interesting. The costuming alone is amazing. Besides, any show with horses (and dogs) is a winner in my world.

Christine B and Cynthia Nixon were in a play together in 1984!  The Real Thing.  They panned past a Playbill on the CBS Sunday Morning interview with Christine, and I noted it, but the interview did not make note of it even though they noted she was now playing with Cynthia Nixon. 

[EtheltoTillie]

6 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I think I remember reading that the accents (I think they're called "Midatlantic") were acquired, not natural.  They got them in prep school, which taught them to imitate British upper class accents.

I have also recently heard this accent called Transatlantic:  think Cary Grant and Katharine Hepburn in The Philadelphia Story. TCM showed a segment on it the other day.  I’ve always heard it called Larchmont Lockjaw.  Christine Baranski speaks this way now IRL. Even though she came from a Polish family in Buffalo. In the CBS interview she describes changing her voice at Juilliard. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[EtheltoTillie]

I loved this, and it’s going to be fun to have a Downton US transplant channeling Edith Wharton. Sure, there was a lot of exposition in this episode, but that’s true of any new show.  The discussion of the old vs. new people was perhaps too exaggerated. Possibly Christine B’s character was too quick to decide to hire a black secretary. She reveals little bits of humanity. Mrs. Russell’s story reminded me of The Bonfire of the Vanities. There was also a social climbing plot, 1980s style. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by EtheltoTillie

[The Pretender]

5 hours ago, MBayGal said:

An earlier post mentioned Jeanne Tripplehorn.  I remember her from Big Love, but did not recognize her here.  What character does she play?  IMDB shows her in all 10 eps, but does not give her character name, unlike for her other roles, and the HBO cast list doesn't give her character name either.

She has such a distinct face/features so that's only how my eye picked up on her even if we only got glimpses from a far of her. I couldn't find her character's name on IMDB either but I found it here if you scroll down to supporting cast and characters; Screenrant 

[Macbeth]

10 hours ago, buttersister said:

I’m here for the cast, the costumes, sets and Bertha’s (Alva’s) revenge (assumed, no spoilers). The dialogue is craptastic Fellowes as usual, but it won’t be worse than Downton and we get past that.

I am beginning to think Maggie Smith made up a lot Dowager's zingers.  She is a master at comedy.  She's up there with the top tier.  So it could have been her phrasing as well.  A line that would just have fallen flat with another actor. she made shine.

Of course she had a fantastic partner in Penelope Wilton's Isobel.  She was a great straight "man"  which is the harder role in comedy.  And could sling some zingers as well.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Macbeth

[Haleth]

5 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Who was Oscar (Aunt Agnes's son) making out with in his bedroom

As eleanorofaquitaine pointed out to me above, he was the friend Oscar brought home.  The one that was so dismissive of Marian.

3 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

Christine B and Cynthia Nixon were in a play together in 1984!  The Real Thing.  They panned past a Playbill on the CBS Sunday Morning interview with Christine, and I noted it, but the interview did not make note of it even though they noted she was now playing with Cynthia Nixon. 

The Today Show talked with them about it.  The played a mother and daughter!

Edited January 26, 2022 by Haleth