S04.E10: The Rise

[paulvdb]

Premiere date: December 31, 2021

[NeenerNeener]

Ah yes, there's the psycho Terry Silver I remembered from the movie.

[Neiman]

Surprised by Kreese's last coaching tip, his moment of sympathy. 

Terry Silver was in true form. I wondered why they brought back that loser Stingray.

Danny's son will probably get into the training next season. Will Sam retire?

I so want things to go well between Robbie and Johnny. ❤ And Johnny and Miguel. And Johnny and Danny.

[madhacker]

Chozen and Daniel teaming up? Kreese and Silver are so dead!!

I just hope Kumiko also makes a return appearance next season (I'm assuming it just hasn't been announced yet

[Morrigan2575]

OMG S5 will be awesome. Chosen and Daniel teaming up?! What does this mean for Johnny. I have to admit, I'm really in this for Johnny's story and I worry he will be overshadowed turning this into the Karate Kid not, Cobra Kai.

[bettername2come]

Interesting with Miguel choosing not to fight. I love that Johnny recognized that he had failed Miguel and let him down. 

I've really enjoyed the Robby and Kenny relationship. It's been interesting to see him essentially be the mentor and the student this season. We've seen his positive attributes still come out in his training and discussions with him. Him breaking Kenny's nose was sad. Loved that Kenny's "Murder him, Robby" during competition broke his concentration. I'm glad Eli won, although it seemed like he should've won a minute earlier when he kicked Robby and got back up, but I guess because he was already on the ground it didn't count? I liked Robby's reaction to finding out Anthony was the bully and trying to check on him when Kenny lost it. I'm glad Robby came to Johnny in the end. The hug was nice. 

I like that Daniel went up there to make sure they included that Johnny was also a two-time champion. 

Tori saying she didn't mean to elbow Sam reminded me of that first conflict in season 2 when she knocked Sam over, where she looked genuinely shocked that she fell over the table. I really loved the way she insisted she didn't have to cheat to win. And that Kreese somehow became the reasonable one. Having him falsely arrested?! Maniacal! 

I gasped at Carmen revealing the ex doesn't know Miguel exists. I feel like Miguel's dad has to be someone we know from the Karate Kid movies, but if it's not Mike Barnes, I'm out of ideas. And I'm already expecting Mike to be the person Silver calls in. 

I was kind of hoping Julie-san would be revealed to be the person Daniel was talking to. Actually, maybe the bully from her movie's Miguel's dad, but then I'm really out of ideas.

I'm a little sad we didn't get our annual fight made of long oner shots. 

Quote

I so want things to go well between Robbie and Johnny. ❤ And Johnny and Miguel. And Johnny and Danny.

And Robby and Danny! And Robby and Kenny.

[Morrigan2575]

47 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

like that Daniel went up there to make sure they included that Johnny was also a two-time champion.

I tell you I was pissed in episode 9 when they introduced Daniel s 2x All Valley Champ and then said, oh yeah Johnny Lawrence and Eagle Fang. Like WTF?! Johnny was a 2x Champ and he was the Sensei that lead Cobra Kai last season...you know the current/reigning champion, Miguel! 😡

[Chicago Redshirt]

I have to admit that I thought that there would be Cobra Kai cheating but that either Eagle Fang or Miyagi-Do would overcome it to win the "soul of the Valley." I like that they averted the Miguel/Robby rematch that seemed a near-certainty and that Hawk got the title. I'm surprised that Tory "won." and I wonder how many know that Silver bribed the ref besides the two of them and now Tori. I look forward to it getting out that Cobra Kai cheated. I imagine at some point either Tori will let what she overheard slip, or an electronic paper trail will out the bribe or something.

It seems somewhat weird that the tourney organizers gloss over the notion that so many of their competitors have criminal records/suspensions for the big karate fight, and that there was specific beef between Sam/Tori. 

I don't know if I like that Daniel is planning to immediately go back on his word just because Silver and Kreese are scummy. I guess if Chozen takes over Miyagi-Do, then Daniel probably lives up to the technical agreement that he would no longer be a sensei. But still.... 

I don't like how Miguel went out though. Like I could buy that he got (misguidedly) pissed at Johnny for carrying more about winning than about his welfare. (And I wished that Johnny would have explicitly told him "I care way more about your well-being than this trophy or not teaching again.") I could get behind him being depressed at not being able to come through for Eagle Fang, or something along those lines. But I don't think that not showing up to let people know that he wouldn't compete is in his character. I don't think him not watching Sam in support is in character. I don't think suddenly bolting to Mexico to try to find his father is in his character. That doesn't even begin to touch on the logistics of how he would find his father and make his way across a border and back as an unaccompanied minor, and why he would choose that particular time to do it.

The Silver/Stingray setup is crazy if you think about it. Stingray voluntarily (after a bit) let himself get ass-whupped to an apparent coma so that he could get back a bunch of high school aged pals and street cred. Even putting aside the sociopathy that would be required to go along with this scheme, I would think that he would have to wonder about whether it would work to get him what he wants (the appreciation and the approval of the current Cobra Kais). Kreese basically pissed all over him being a Cobra Kai and not one person among them stood up for Stingray rejoining the Dojo. It seems unlikely that even with Sensei Silver saying that he be part of the Cobra Kai family that the students would welcome him. Presumably, some of them are going to be in disbelief that their sensei would have done this to someone as pathetic as Stingray. But even among those who believe Kreese did it, aren't most of the current Cobra Kais going to look down on him as an old overweight loser? Shouldn't he seek out the Eagle Fang people, who were most of the old Cobra Kais who were actual friends/acquaintances? Or does the name Cobra Kai mean that much to him? And as for Silver, are you going to really rely on this manchild to try and carry out your evil scheme? Will whatever story he tells hold up under repeated questioning?  What if Kreese has an alibi for whenever Stingray says the attack occurred? 

[paulvdb]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The Silver/Stingray setup is crazy if you think about it. Stingray voluntarily (after a bit) let himself get ass-whupped to an apparent coma so that he could get back a bunch of high school aged pals and street cred.

There is certainly a lot of crazy about the set up, but the bolded bit seems easy enough to explain. Silver probably would have threatened to beat Stingray up anyway even if he didn't cooperate with the plan. So the choice for Stingray was basically only what to do after he ended up in the hospital: say Kreese did it and be allowed to join Cobra Kai or tell the truth and not be allowed to join Cobra Kai.

[moonshine71]

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I have to admit that I thought that there would be Cobra Kai cheating but that either Eagle Fang or Miyagi-Do would overcome it to win the "soul of the Valley." I like that they averted the Miguel/Robby rematch that seemed a near-certainty and that Hawk got the title. I'm surprised that Tory "won." and I wonder how many know that Silver bribed the ref besides the two of them and now Tori. I look forward to it getting out that Cobra Kai cheated. I imagine at some point either Tori will let what she overheard slip, or an electronic paper trail will out the bribe or something.

It seems somewhat weird that the tourney organizers gloss over the notion that so many of their competitors have criminal records/suspensions for the big karate fight, and that there was specific beef between Sam/Tori. 

I don't know if I like that Daniel is planning to immediately go back on his word just because Silver and Kreese are scummy. I guess if Chozen takes over Miyagi-Do, then Daniel probably lives up to the technical agreement that he would no longer be a sensei. But still.... 

I don't like how Miguel went out though. Like I could buy that he got (misguidedly) pissed at Johnny for carrying more about winning than about his welfare. (And I wished that Johnny would have explicitly told him "I care way more about your well-being than this trophy or not teaching again.") I could get behind him being depressed at not being able to come through for Eagle Fang, or something along those lines. But I don't think that not showing up to let people know that he wouldn't compete is in his character. I don't think him not watching Sam in support is in character. I don't think suddenly bolting to Mexico to try to find his father is in his character. That doesn't even begin to touch on the logistics of how he would find his father and make his way across a border and back as an unaccompanied minor, and why he would choose that particular time to do it.

The Silver/Stingray setup is crazy if you think about it. Stingray voluntarily (after a bit) let himself get ass-whupped to an apparent coma so that he could get back a bunch of high school aged pals and street cred. Even putting aside the sociopathy that would be required to go along with this scheme, I would think that he would have to wonder about whether it would work to get him what he wants (the appreciation and the approval of the current Cobra Kais). Kreese basically pissed all over him being a Cobra Kai and not one person among them stood up for Stingray rejoining the Dojo. It seems unlikely that even with Sensei Silver saying that he be part of the Cobra Kai family that the students would welcome him. Presumably, some of them are going to be in disbelief that their sensei would have done this to someone as pathetic as Stingray. But even among those who believe Kreese did it, aren't most of the current Cobra Kais going to look down on him as an old overweight loser? Shouldn't he seek out the Eagle Fang people, who were most of the old Cobra Kais who were actual friends/acquaintances? Or does the name Cobra Kai mean that much to him? And as for Silver, are you going to really rely on this manchild to try and carry out your evil scheme? Will whatever story he tells hold up under repeated questioning?  What if Kreese has an alibi for whenever Stingray says the attack occurred? 

Everything involving Stingray is pretty cringe. Let's not forget he was just on probation, and if there is not a warrant it for his arrest I will just be pissed. There is no way his sister's neighbor didn't file assault charges against him.

That whole scene just made all the high school kids look like assholes, too.  Cheering for this old weirdo while he assaulted someone who can't defend themself. Yeah, I get the guy was going go shut down their party, but these kids are way to desensitized to violence, even the ones that have nothing go do with Karate.

Edited January 1, 2022 by moonshine71

[paigow]

Next season Johnny will be fighting gangsters... Unless Kreese has the most incompetent lawyer, he should be free "tomorrow"

[jah1986]

Well I watched the whole thing in one day.  It was a good season. I had a feeling cobra Kai would win the overall when they announced that the girls would go last. I knew Miguel was leaving when he told Sam he would always root for her. He was so hurt by Johnny saying “I love you too Robby”. It’s like he has no one who will put him first and love him that’s not his mom and yaya.

I can’t believe this season made me hate Tory less. I was so happy to see Robby and Johnny hugging. Seeing Eli win without the Mohawk was nice.  Someone please help that Kenny kid before it’s too late.  Terry just lost his mind, although seeing Kreese finally being the one to get played was a little satisfying.

Daniel-san and Chozen teaming up should be good. Bring on season 5.

 

 

[raven]

4 hours ago, moonshine71 said:

Everything involving Stingray is pretty cringe. Let's not forget he was just on probation, and if there is not a warrant it for his arrest I will just be pissed. There is no way his sister's neighbor didn't file assault charges against him.

I groaned when this obnoxious character reappeared.  He's not funny or sympathetic.   He's a creep who wants to hang around with teenagers, who as you said, beat the neighbor who was (rightfully) going to call the police.  And yeah, the teens acted like assholes too.   I like Johnny but I really, really wish he would stop knocking down defenseless people as well. 

Anyway, this was an enjoyable binge; much better than last season.  We got some character development among the teens.  I wasn't bothered that Miguel left the tournament - he was feeling pressure from Johnny and probably just thought it was easiest.  I felt so badly for Miguel when Johnny called him "Robbie".    Speaking of Robbie, Tanner Buchanan is much better this season.   I can believe he is trying to do his own thing, irrespective of the various unreliable adults who are striving to influence him.   He is young so is going to fail and he and Kenny (Dallas Dupree, also doing a good job; I didn't mind adding him to the mix) had good chemistry.    I never thought I would feel sympathy for Tory but I did this season.   I am trying with Samantha but I think the problem is the actress.  I can totally understand not wanting to see in school the person who tried to kill you and broke into your home.  I can understand having pressure from Daniel to do things "the right way" .  Teens always whine that everyone is against them.   I can understand all this but she is just not sympathetic. 

I knew Eli/Hawk would beat Robbie when the announcer said that Cobra Kai only needed to win one match to win the tournament and Tory/Sam hadn't fought yet.  No way the show was going to miss that opportunity.

Johnny and Daniel working together was as much fun as I always thought it would be.   With all of the talk of finding your own way, including a Miyagi flashback saying that, I'm hopeful that we are eventually pointing towards a merge of Miyagi/Cobra/Eagle styles.   Lots of good stuff from Amanda this season too and I'm happy she at least showed maturity in dealing with Tory.   I laughed at "showdown at the Okinawa corral".   

Amanda and Daniel aren't perfect parents (who is) and I liked the show addressing that.

The show actually made me interested in watching Kreese and Silver - watching Silver revert and the two of them quietly vying for control was good tv. 

As funny asides, I really enjoyed the Board meeting.   That whole thing was comedy gold for me and I liked them acting as a kind of peanut gallery at the match. 

Johnny:  "I learned feminism!"   LOL.  There are too many good Johnny quotes. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

7 hours ago, paulvdb said:

There is certainly a lot of crazy about the set up, but the bolded bit seems easy enough to explain. Silver probably would have threatened to beat Stingray up anyway even if he didn't cooperate with the plan. So the choice for Stingray was basically only what to do after he ended up in the hospital: say Kreese did it and be allowed to join Cobra Kai or tell the truth and not be allowed to join Cobra Kai.

The plan turns on Stingray not thinking that he can also ingratiate himself to the main sensei by letting him know that Silver is trying to scumbag him. And not realizing that someone who would beat him to a pulp might actually kill him to cover his tracks. And not realizing that if the scheme doesn't work, he could face criminal charges for trying to frame Kreese (as well as retaliation from the Cobras).

Because Stingray is a caricature and not an actual character, and also because he was under duress/being concussed at the time, it makes some sense that he didn't weigh these pros and cons. 

But then it makes less sense for Silver to have this plan, especially when there is a risk of brain damage that would make Stingray unable to execute it.

1 hour ago, paigow said:

 Unless Kreese has the most incompetent lawyer, he should be free "tomorrow"

It's not necessarily a good frame job, but it's likely good enough to warrant a trial. If a victim of a crime identifies their attacker and it's someone they know, chances are the cops in general are going to believe the victim, unless there are Jussie Smollett-level things that fly in the face of common sense. 

Here we have a person with real and severe injuries, who says he was beaten up by someone with the obvious means to inflict such a beating as a karate master. It is not clear what Kreese's motive would be for such a beating, but it wouldn't be too tough to come up with one. For instance, Kreese beat Stingray up to show that he wasn't deserving to be a member of Cobra Kai and didn't want him attempting to affiliate his loser self with their dojo. There was a public confrontation between Stingray and Kreese that the dozen or so students and Silver would all have to admit happened that supports the notion of this motive. So the only thing left is to show he had the opportunity to have beaten Stingray, and it wouldn't be too tough to come up with a time when Kreese has no one to account for his whereabouts.  

Assuming that Silver concocted a story to tell for Stingray where Kreese doesn't have a confirmed alibi, and Stingray is willing and able to stick to the plan, I don't know where the obvious hole is for Kreese to show his innocence.

[Jediknight]

Daniel and Chozen working together finally.  Miyagi and Sato would be so happy.

Eli winning the tournament and Demetri making the final four.  The Binary Bros kicking ass was great.  Kyler getting steamrolled was perfection.  He was brought in by Kreese due to being a natural athlete, and we've seen him lose to Miguel and Eli, and hasn't beat them in a fight.

Miguel bowing out I can buy.  Johnny was forgetting about the battle against Kreese and Silver, and was focusing on proving he was better than Daniel.  He felt he was in between their stupid karate rivalry, and wasn't fighting for himself, he was done with it.

[cambridgeguy]

All of this time and it turns out that Chozen is actually the one to fill Miyagi's shoes.  Unlike everyone else he's moved past what happened in the movies and as an added bonus is the best fighter.

[Jediknight]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

All of this time and it turns out that Chozen is actually the one to fill Miyagi's shoes.  Unlike everyone else he's moved past what happened in the movies and as an added bonus is the best fighter.

Makes sense for Chozen to be the best fighter.  He and KK2 Daniel were the peak of the young fighters.

Terry said he would bring in somebody to help with Cobra Kai, so we gotta be getting Barnes.  I'd love it if he tried to start something with Chozen, and Chozen just smacked him.

[paigow]

Daniel will be the silent partner in Ice Block Dojo

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Jediknight said:

Terry said he would bring in somebody to help with Cobra Kai, so we gotta be getting Barnes.  I'd love it if he tried to start something with Chozen, and Chozen just smacked him.

Yep, fully expect Barnes to show up next season.

[juno]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Yep, fully expect Barnes to show up next season.

Yes, and I hope they counter with the awesome Julie Pierce.

[greekmom]

Silvers cheated which should have eliminated Cobra Kai.

Chozen is back and will help Russo.

Kreese is an idiot for calling Silvers in the first place.  You lie down with crazy...

Hopefully next season comes soon.

[Cthulhudrew]

Wow- Terry sure took a right turn back to manipulative villainy. I still like his character this season, but I'm not a big fan of this abrupt shift.

Some of the storylines still felt like they fell victim to some pacing issues- the bullying storyline, Tori and Sam. I imagine they just want those to continue playing out into S5, but it really does feel like they drag these things out too long sometimes.

Overall, a really strong season. Probably one of the strongest so far, and that's saying a lot.

[memememe76]

I have little patience for Redeeming Assholes storylines and this season had a lot of them: Tori, Eli, Anthony, Silver, Kreese. Eli’s was the most effective because: 1) we saw him do the work of contrition; and 2) he (more importantly, the writers) did not expect people to forgive him. But I am hoping that next season stops with giving assholes sad backstories.

I am not the biggest fan of Sam, but I have absolutely no problem with her hating Tori. Her behaviour is not great but compared to what happens on the show, hardly qualifies as criminal. If Tori really attended her therapy sessions, what would her therapist have thought that she got into a fight at an after-prom party?

[juno]

43 minutes ago, memememe76 said:

I have little patience for Redeeming Assholes storylines and this season had a lot of them: Tori, Eli, Anthony, Silver, Kreese. Eli’s was the most effective because: 1) we saw him do the work of contrition; and 2) he (more importantly, the writers) did not expect people to forgive him. But I am hoping that next season stops with giving assholes sad backstories.

I am not the biggest fan of Sam, but I have absolutely no problem with her hating Tori. Her behaviour is not great but compared to what happens on the show, hardly qualifies as criminal. If Tori really attended her therapy sessions, what would her therapist have thought that she got into a fight at an after-prom party?

I also wasn't happy with Amanda helping out Tori. Tori tried to kill her daughter and when Amanda finds out her backstory decides that she should forgive her and help her. I don't get this. Most criminals have hard backstories but not only was it stupid not to file charges but to start helping her is really ridiculous. I know most love Amanada but this forgive and forget storyline was really dumb.

Also, just because Stingray utters the name Kreese doesn't mean they automatically arrest him, there is this little thing called evidence which may have been planted by Silver but we don't see it. If there is no evidence he could have uttered anyone's name. Kreese would be taken in for a conversation as a person of interest not arrested.

Edited January 2, 2022 by juno

[paigow]

I thought there was a SAG rule preventing 2 identically named active members. How can there be 2 Peyton Lists? Why does one not have a fake middle initial?

[paulvdb]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

I thought there was a SAG rule preventing 2 identically named active members. How can there be 2 Peyton Lists? Why does one not have a fake middle initial?

I have been wondering that ever since I first saw the other Peyton List on the Tomorrow People when I already knew Cobra Kai's Peyton List from Jessie. Not enough to actually research it so I don't have an answer to the question.

[paigow]

2 hours ago, paulvdb said:

I have been wondering that ever since I first saw the other Peyton List on the Tomorrow People when I already knew Cobra Kai's Peyton List from Jessie. Not enough to actually research it so I don't have an answer to the question.

Michael Douglas 2.0 had to become Michael Keaton many decades ago...

[Mr. Sparkle]

4 hours ago, juno said:

Also, just because Stingray utters the name Kreese doesn't mean they automatically arrest him, there is this little thing called evidence which may have been planted by Silver but we don't see it. If there is no evidence he could have uttered anyone's name. Kreese would be taken in for a conversation as a person of interest not arrested.

You mean they wouldn't have sent 4 cars with sirens and lights on to someone else's house to pick them up? How did they even know where he was? 🤣

Regardless of the inconsistencies, improbabilities and ridiculousness of this soap opera show, I am consistently entertained. I actually yelled out "oh shit!" when Chozen showed up. No way I won't be back next year! 

[DoctorAtomic]

6 hours ago, juno said:

I also wasn't happy with Amanda helping out Tori. Tori tried to kill her daughter and when Amanda finds out her backstory decides that she should forgive her and help her. I don't get this. Most criminals have hard backstories but not only was it stupid not to file charges but to start helping her is really ridiculous. I know most love Amanada but this forgive and forget storyline was really dumb.

It would have landed better if Amanda did press charges, but part of that was counseling, etc., instead of going to jail.

On 1/1/2022 at 1:20 PM, cambridgeguy said:

Unlike everyone else he's moved past what happened in the movies and as an added bonus is the best fighter.

Let's hope he helps everyone move on. A lot of this season didn't really stick the landing for me. I think the show is ending its shelf life here. It was sold hard that Johnny and Daniel would finally be working together. It's kind of ridiculous at this point. The kids seem to be learning how to meld styles, and I thought that would have brought Johnny and Daniel around in the end. Why even bother bringing in Silver if we're just running in place here. Combined, they beat Cobra Kai hands down.

 

[memememe76]

Yep, once the tournament announced the changes, it just made complete sense for Johnny and Daniel to combine forces. And given Daniel’s car salesperson experience, they could have done a better job of attracting more students, especially if all one needed to do is provide more attractive swag. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

9 hours ago, memememe76 said:

I have little patience for Redeeming Assholes storylines and this season had a lot of them: Tori, Eli, Anthony, Silver, Kreese. Eli’s was the most effective because: 1) we saw him do the work of contrition; and 2) he (more importantly, the writers) did not expect people to forgive him. But I am hoping that next season stops with giving assholes sad backstories.

I am not the biggest fan of Sam, but I have absolutely no problem with her hating Tori. Her behaviour is not great but compared to what happens on the show, hardly qualifies as criminal. If Tori really attended her therapy sessions, what would her therapist have thought that she got into a fight at an after-prom party?

I don't think any of the assholes on your list except for Eli was redeemed or that TPTB really tried to. But then again, I don't know if I would go so far as to call Tori an asshole. I kind of like her. There, I said it. I think the show put her in an interesting place. She has been defined by her being butthurt over losing Miguel and being poor and being looked down upon. Now she has a sugar daddy in Silver (not in a dirty way) who could get her off the treadmill of working doubles to support her family, a boyfriend in Robbie who actually likes her for her and who she gets along with, and she's the first female All-Valley Champ. (Pause to note how crazy it is that a tourney that has a 50 year tradition has never had a separate girl's division before). But now she knows her win was tainted and she should have lost.

Anthony IMO is not forgiven just because he's now contrite and because Kenny has morphed from the nerdy Dungeon Lord-loving kid into a rampaging asshole in his own right. 

Silver and Kreese have not been redeemed in any way shape or form. Silver beat a man half to death to frame Kreese, and did so because Kreese continued his pattern of bullying him.

9 hours ago, juno said:

I also wasn't happy with Amanda helping out Tori. Tori tried to kill her daughter and when Amanda finds out her backstory decides that she should forgive her and help her. I don't get this. Most criminals have hard backstories but not only was it stupid not to file charges but to start helping her is really ridiculous. I know most love Amanada but this forgive and forget storyline was really dumb.

Also, just because Stingray utters the name Kreese doesn't mean they automatically arrest him, there is this little thing called evidence which may have been planted by Silver but we don't see it. If there is no evidence he could have uttered anyone's name. Kreese would be taken in for a conversation as a person of interest not arrested.

I don't know that Amanda has forgiven Tori, but she felt sorry for her and also thinks that maybe helping her will stop the blood feud. To me, this makes sense for Amanda's character. She has seen first hand how Danny and Johnny ended up having their lives shaped (or warped, as the case may be) by their karate rivalry even after decades have passed. And Tori was even more crazy than Johnny was. Johnny never did anything that led to anyone being hospitalized or led a home invasion of Danny's home. So mix some self-preservation with liberal guilt over them being rich and healthy and Tori having to take care of the family at all of 17, and add in her backstory of having apparently caught a break herself from criminal charges when she was Tori's age and it makes sense.

In terms of Stingray/Kreese, yes hypothetically in 2021 there might be additional evidence, such as street cameras capturing part of the beating or other eyewitnesses or things like that. But realistically, depending on the story Silver and Stingray cooked up, there probably would not be all that much independent evidence that would be attainable a week or two after the beating. I would totally believe real-world cops given a coherent version of events by someone severely beaten would not question his account and arrest someone solely on his word. Especially when the purported victim and perpetrator have a history together and it cannot be a case of merely mistaken identity. As a matter of real-world law, a victim being willing to sign a criminal complaint against someone is enough to arrest them, and no offense to anybody in law enforcement in the real world, but I would tend to think that most real-world detectives would not look too deeply at what seems to be an open-and-shut case. I don't think the classification of "person of interest" would make sense in a case like this when there would be no reason to think that Kreese did not do exactly what Stingray said he did.

2 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

A lot of this season didn't really stick the landing for me. I think the show is ending its shelf life here. It was sold hard that Johnny and Daniel would finally be working together. It's kind of ridiculous at this point. The kids seem to be learning how to meld styles, and I thought that would have brought Johnny and Daniel around in the end. Why even bother bringing in Silver if we're just running in place here. Combined, they beat Cobra Kai hands down.

 

I think that one of the statements the show is making amidst the drama and action is about how much we can or can't let go of the past. In Johnny and Danny's case, they had to know that if they were to combine themselves as Miyagi-Do Eagle Fang Dojo, they would have had a better chance at winning. I think it's a given that even with the ref point-shaving, they would have actually won. I mean, the show didn't bother to really show where the three dojos were at pointwise, or how things were scored in all but the broadest of terms, but it seems clear that if Eagle Fang could have won the grand champion title with a Sam win, that Miyagi-Do Eagle Fang would have crushed it with the combined scores of both dojos against just Cobra Kai. 

And yet, Johnny and Danny would not let their beef from the 80s die and could not keep it on the backburner for six months to accomplish something very important to both of them.

Bringing in Silver reinforces that theme. He was pretending to be someone he's not: a woke Californian who went through a "karate phase" years ago and now enjoys vegan brunches and suffers fools. But Kreese reminded him that he can't just lock up that decades-old stuff and pretend it didn't happen. Also, Silver means that Cobra Kai is a true threat to perform well and expand. With him bankrolling the operation, Cobra Kai was in far better shape to expand than under just Kreese's leadership. Also, Kreese is more like a blunt object and Silver is far sneakier and willing to come at very different angles.

[Kate47]

Y'all, I did a whole victory dance in my living room when Eli won, like what an amazing fight. Props to the coordinators this season, they stepped up the game

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, Kate47 said:

Y'all, I did a whole victory dance in my living room when Eli won, like what an amazing fight. Props to the coordinators this season, they stepped up the game

I agree. It was totally unexpected but very satisfying to see him win.

[twoods]

I’m thinking that the writers needed material for season 5 which is why Eagle Fang and Miyagi do didn’t combine forces at the end of the season. Or maybe they will mend their differences trying to take Cobra Kai down and find Miguel. 
This show is so easy to binge, so when the season is over I want more. I don’t think the episodes are long enough to develop all the characters the way they should, but I still love it.

[dwmarch]

The offense versus defense conflict bugged me through the season. I only took karate classes for a few months about thirty years ago so I am by no means an expert on the subject but it seems to me like you would need both and I vaguely recall being taught both. Also, all the kids are black belts which I don't think is actually possible in such a short period of time.

I liked that the season did not go for a happy ending. I am a little worried about the setup for next season though. Miguel is on a bus to Mexico City to meet his father who is apparently a bad dude. When it comes to bad dudes from Mexico on television they tend to come in one single flavor: cartel. Johnny is going to take his karate skills and his political incorrectness down there to rescue Miguel from the clutches of such. If Johnny stays true to his character he will get himself murdered about five minutes into the next season when he tries to ask where the bathroom is.

[Ambrosefolly]

15 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't think any of the assholes on your list except for Eli was redeemed or that TPTB really tried to. But then again, I don't know if I would go so far as to call Tori an asshole. I kind of like her. There, I said it. I think the show put her in an interesting place. She has been defined by her being butthurt over losing Miguel and being poor and being looked down upon. Now she has a sugar daddy in Silver (not in a dirty way) who could get her off the treadmill of working doubles to support her family, a boyfriend in Robbie who actually likes her for her and who she gets along with, and she's the first female All-Valley Champ. (Pause to note how crazy it is that a tourney that has a 50 year tradition has never had a separate girl's division before). But now she knows her win was tainted and she should have lost.

Anthony IMO is not forgiven just because he's now contrite and because Kenny has morphed from the nerdy Dungeon Lord-loving kid into a rampaging asshole in his own right. 

Silver and Kreese have not been redeemed in any way shape or form. Silver beat a man half to death to frame Kreese, and did so because Kreese continued his pattern of bullying him.

I don't know that Amanda has forgiven Tori, but she felt sorry for her and also thinks that maybe helping her will stop the blood feud. To me, this makes sense for Amanda's character. She has seen first hand how Danny and Johnny ended up having their lives shaped (or warped, as the case may be) by their karate rivalry even after decades have passed. And Tori was even more crazy than Johnny was. Johnny never did anything that led to anyone being hospitalized or led a home invasion of Danny's home. So mix some self-preservation with liberal guilt over them being rich and healthy and Tori having to take care of the family at all of 17, and add in her backstory of having apparently caught a break herself from criminal charges when she was Tori's age and it makes sense.

I would go as far as to call Tori an asshole. She did try to kill Sam and disfigured her, egged on Hawk to break Dmitri's arm and participated in a home invasion that injured several kids and trashed someone's home, helped Cobra Kai hold Hawk down while Robby cut off his mohawk (even though Silver and Kreese told them not to attack Eagle Fang or Miyagi until the All Valley, something Johnny honored in the first film), and never apologized to the people she directly hurt, except Amanda.  Doesn't mean the audience can't like her or sympathize with her plight, but again, her shitty situation doesn't give her the right to terrorize people.

However, I think Amanda made the right call in giving Tory the okay to return to school & trying to help her out. Because Tory is ultimately a stressed out kid with a huge chip on her shoulder. Hopefully Tory flicker of genuine concern after beating Sam in the match was real & she will make amends next season as Hawk did this season. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Ambrosefolly

[anonymiss]

This season was great and much more enjoyable, confident, and well-paced compared to last which felt very gimmicky and overwhelmed.

I've always found Tori interesting and exciting especially thanks to the actress playing her. Am glad she and Hawk got to show more maturity and growth.

Really looking forward to seeing Robby and Johnny having a real relationship.

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by anonymiss

[cambridgeguy]

4 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

However, I think Amanda made the right call in giving Tory the okay to return to school & trying to help her out. Because Tory is ultimately a stressed out kid with a huge chip on her shoulder. Hopefully Tory flicker of genuine concern after beating Sam in the match was real & she will make amends next season as Hawk did this season. 

It's the Miyagi thing to do, ironically enough.  And even if it makes no logical sense (not that it's stopped the show before) maybe next season there will be a scene of Tory and Chozen hanging out.  So you invaded Sam's home and tried to kill her?  Let me tell you about the time I ziplined into a performance and held a girl at knifepoint to force Daniel into a duel to the death.  Good times!

[paigow]

4 hours ago, anonymiss said:

Really looking forward to seeing Robby and Johnny having a real relationship

Unless Robby is going to Mexico, the bonding is on hold....

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Unless Robby is going to Mexico, the bonding is on hold....

I've seen some spec that Johnny/Miguel in S5 will Mirror Miyagi/Daniel from KK2. Also, spec that Robby will join Johnny and there will be bonding. I like that spec, hope it happens.

[DoctorAtomic]

10 hours ago, dwmarch said:

The offense versus defense conflict bugged me through the season. I only took karate classes for a few months about thirty years ago so I am by no means an expert on the subject but it seems to me like you would need both and I vaguely recall being taught both.

I think they were kind of distilling it down a little too much. Cobra Kai is 'strike first' and go at your opponent, but if you watch, they throw block too. Miyagi-do is 'defense first,' but like I said in another thread, they still have to land hits to win, so there's still offense. Sam went at Tori for her point after the elbow because Tory wasn't expecting it and the flurry caught her off. 

[Zaffy]

This is the first season I did not find the kid's stories so annoying. So I guess this makes Season 4 the best so far.
It is fascinating how a show that is  based on a original story with mostly caricature characters, manages to develop them and make them  less one-dimensional. I never expected I would find Silver's story interesting. 
Of course in some areas is still over the top and  quite far from being realistic. I wonder if in real world any of these dojos would still be open or had any students. Especially Cobra Kai, I mean invading and breaking (literally)  a house? don't this kids have parents? 

Anyway, highlight of the season Daniel and Johnny training and eventually fighting each other (with no winner!).
And of course the last scene.



 

[twoods]

I definitely felt the guys were more eye candyish this season as well, which is always a plus. Daniel and Johnny looked the same but the teens all looked great, and since I can be old enough to be their (young) mother, I enjoyed the ogling but then felt bad afterwards. Don’t worry Ralph, you are still my first childhood crush!

[readster]

11 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

It's the Miyagi thing to do, ironically enough.  And even if it makes no logical sense (not that it's stopped the show before) maybe next season there will be a scene of Tory and Chozen hanging out.  So you invaded Sam's home and tried to kill her?  Let me tell you about the time I ziplined into a performance and held a girl at knifepoint to force Daniel into a duel to the death.  Good times!

Oh God! That will be fantastic and even have him go: "I didn't think I had any life and I almost killed myself... but you don't have to go there." 

[Guest]

On 1/2/2022 at 12:50 PM, paulvdb said:

On 1/2/2022 at 11:38 AM, paigow said:

I thought there was a SAG rule preventing 2 identically named active members. How can there be 2 Peyton Lists? Why does one not have a fake middle initial?

I have been wondering that ever since I first saw the other Peyton List on the Tomorrow People when I already knew Cobra Kai's Peyton List from Jessie. Not enough to actually research it so I don't have an answer to the question.

Apparently SAG just missed it. According to the somewhat old article linked below, this Peyton sometimes went by Peyton R. List to avoid confusion, but is not officially required to do that by SAG, and she doesn't seem to be doing it anymore. I guess both the actresses and SAG have just decided to let it be?

https://www.accessonline.com/articles/a-tale-of-two-peytons-jessies-peyton-list-on-sharing-her-famous-name-with-other-peyton-list-138708

[norcalgal]

On 1/1/2022 at 2:39 AM, moonshine71 said:

Everything involving Stingray is pretty cringe. Let's not forget he was just on probation, and if there is not a warrant it for his arrest I will just be pissed. There is no way his sister's neighbor didn't file assault charges against him.

That whole scene just made all the high school kids look like assholes, too.  Cheering for this old weirdo while he assaulted someone who can't defend themself. Yeah, I get the guy was going go shut down their party, but these kids are way to desensitized to violence, even the ones that have nothing go do with Karate.

THIS!  It's so completely unbelievable that the neighbor didn't do everything in his power to get Stingray arrested, esp. since there was already beef between the two of them which would have given the neighbor *extra* incentive to have Stingray arrested! This show wants to have it both ways as to when the police arrest someone  (Kreese) and when they don't (Stingray and the kids after the violence at the LaRusso house from last season).

On 1/1/2022 at 7:07 AM, jah1986 said:

Well I watched the whole thing in one day.  It was a good season. I had a feeling cobra Kai would win the overall when they announced that the girls would go last. I knew Miguel was leaving when he told Sam he would always root for her. He was so hurt by Johnny saying “I love you too Robby”. It’s like he has no one who will put him first and love him that’s not his mom and yaya.

I can’t believe this season made me hate Tory less. I was so happy to see Robby and Johnny hugging. Seeing Eli win without the Mohawk was nice.  Someone please help that Kenny kid before it’s too late.  Terry just lost his mind, although seeing Kreese finally being the one to get played was a little satisfying.

Daniel-san and Chozen teaming up should be good. Bring on season 5.

 

 

Color me bored with this season.  If S5 starts around a holiday period again, I'll likely watch since I probably won't have anything else to do.

On 1/1/2022 at 7:56 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

Wow- Terry sure took a right turn back to manipulative villainy. I still like his character this season, but I'm not a big fan of this abrupt shift.

Some of the storylines still felt like they fell victim to some pacing issues- the bullying storyline, Tori and Sam. I imagine they just want those to continue playing out into S5, but it really does feel like they drag these things out too long sometimes.

Overall, a really strong season. Probably one of the strongest so far, and that's saying a lot.

UO: I was mostly bored and kept thinking how many more episodes as each one automatically rolled into the next.

Also, Cobra Kai is already recycling storylines.  Kenny is essentially Hawk 2.0:  bullied guy who learned karate to defend himself and now that he thinks he's a badass fighter, has turned into an a-hole.

18 hours ago, anonymiss said:

This season was great and much more enjoyable, confidant, and well-paced compared to last which felt very gimmicky and overwhelmed.

I've always found Tori interesting and exciting especially thanks to the character playing her. Am glad she and Hawk got to show more maturity and growth.

Really looking forward to seeing Robby and Johnny having a real relationship.

 

WRT the bolded, see above comments on how I felt about this season.

As for Tori, oh woe is me, my life is sooooo hard so that gives me license to be a psycho  (Amanda's word). BUT, I do have to give props to Peyton List.  Her acting is so damn good because if anyone watched her on Jessie, no way would they think "Emma" could pull off the Tori role. I totally buy her Tori...

[DoctorAtomic]

23 minutes ago, norcalgal said:

Color me bored with this season.  If S5 starts around a holiday period again, I'll likely watch since I probably won't have anything else to do.

I don't know that I was bored, but they really were moving the deck chairs around. I feel like they pulled the rug on Johnny and Daniel.

[twoods]

They really did. I really wanted more scenes with them this season and felt shafted. Hopefully they will make up for it next season.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 1/2/2022 at 10:18 PM, Kate47 said:

Y'all, I did a whole victory dance in my living room when Eli won, like what an amazing fight. Props to the coordinators this season, they stepped up the game

That was a really well done fight. For a second I thought they both were going to stop because they were so damn tired and call it a draw. Also I assume that them fighting shirtless was a reference to Bloodsport.

On 1/2/2022 at 11:14 AM, juno said:

I also wasn't happy with Amanda helping out Tori. Tori tried to kill her daughter and when Amanda finds out her backstory decides that she should forgive her and help her. I don't get this. Most criminals have hard backstories but not only was it stupid not to file charges but to start helping her is really ridiculous. I know most love Amanada but this forgive and forget storyline was really dumb.

I am not sure it is really a forgive and forget type of thing. I think it is Amanda realizing that Tori is what 17, and if people keep hammering her and punishing her she will probably end up killing someone, or at very least spending a big part of her life in prison. If someone maybe tries something different (which no one has) maybe she can turn her life around. Seems like the kind of thing that would benefit multiple people.

I was also thinking if Daniel wants his kids to learn to fight the Myagi way, why hasn't he taught them the crane kick, or even the drum punch thing?

[Sir RaiderDuck OMS]

The entire Stingray plotline is flat-out ridiculous. A bunch of kids at a Junior Prom are not going to be interested in going to some creepy thirtysomething dude's house, alcohol or no. Were none of these children on any kind of curfew? And why would the neighbor even confront him instead of just calling the police? The minute the cops walk in and see a bunch of teenagers boozing it up, Stingray's going to jail for several dozen counts of Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor. 

Thomas Ian Griffith's limitations as an actor keep me from fully engaging in the Kreese/Silver storyline. He just doesn't do well with any kind of subtlety. We buy Silver and Kreese's friendship mostly because Martin Kove (in great shape and obviously having the time of his life) sells the hell out of it.

Fun fact: Griffith is one year younger than Ralph Macchio, who just turned 60.

As always, Johnny is by far the best character on the show: a determined but slightly befuddled middle-aged tough guy gamely navigating a world he doesn't understand.

Loved the season ending with Chozen's return and Def Leppard's awesome instrumental "Switch 625."

Cobra Kai remains a perfect show to binge, as it's fast-moving and fun to watch as long as the viewer accepts that it simply does not take place in our universe, but rather an alternate universe where everyone either practices the martial arts or is in awe of those who do.