S01.E01: Never Meet Your Heroes

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Archer Kate Bishop lands in the middle of a criminal conspiracy, forcing Hawkeye out of retirement.

Dropping Wednesday, November 24, 2021.

[Llywela]

16 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I didn't like it, I don't know why, but I think it is because the new characters are too rich. I thought in the first episode that Kate's parents were having financial issues. Then her father dies and all of a sudden the family is richer than ever. All through both episodes I was more concerned with how Kate's mother got her wealth than anything else that was shown. I didn't like how Kate destroyed an entire building and her mother whips out her checkbook and the entire incident goes away. Were there people inside the building, the college didn't even kick Kate out or reprimand her. I think I am supposed to be on Kate's side, but I wouldn't want her to be anywhere near me. I think the cavalier way that property is be destroyed is not going to sit well with me. Kate's apartment caught fight, but so did a pizza shop, but if we think about that we won't be able to enjoy the show.

I wish they would start explaining some of the things that are happening before they start moving on to the next thing. Does the fight between Kate's Mother and Armand, or Jack and Armand mean anything? Did the auction or the theft from the auction have any significance? How could all the people from the auction escape through the hole, wouldn't there be Tracksuit Mafia guys at the other end? Why are the tracksuit Mafia so interested in Ronin and not afraid that the cops might show up.

Spoiler

Why did the cops want to talk to Kate when it was obvious that the Tracksuit Mafia started the fire?

What is Pizza Dog doing, trying to do. Did Pizza Dog take the watch? It seems like Pizza Dog is interested in the Avengers or Avengers stuff in some way.

Pizza dog only has one eye.

I thought perhaps we should bring this episode one discussion into the episode one thread, since it was posted in the episode two thread. :)

As for your questions...I suspect that how Kate's mother became rich (because yes, financial difficulty was definitely implied at the beginning) might well prove to be a plot point. If not, well, I guess she did well off post-Battle-Of-New-York insurance and leveraged her wealthy contacts to build a new life.

The building Kate destroyed was not occupied, no. It was a small bell tower on campus in the middle of the night. It didn't collapse, just the top of it caved in. She comes from money, yes, that's her backstory. It's a starting place for the character, as is the loss of her father and her idolisation of Hawkeye. Lets wait and see where she goes from here.

The argument between Kate's mother (Eleanor) and Armand was very clearly a plot set-up, tipping Kate off that there is a lot going on in her mother's life that she hasn't previously been aware of. It is part of an ongoing thread woven through the episode - Armand, for instance, wasn't happy about Jack getting engaged to Eleanor. Jack himself is also clearly Up To Something. This is all set-up for plot strands we can expect to see unravelled through the season to come.

The tracksuit Mafia are interested in Ronin because he killed their leader, that was explained within the text of the episode. They saw Kate wearing the suit and assumed it was the same Ronin back in action. No one knows that Clint was Ronin. 

The dog was just a stray, in the wrong place at the wrong time. Why did he attack the mafia guy? Why does a dog do anything? It got excited, took a dislike to the guy, whatever. It was just a contrivance to draw Kate back into the fray when she saw the guy kicking the dog. Sometimes in drama you just have to accept a contrivance to move the plot forward, and be done with it. The dog didn't take the watch, no, it got dropped when he attacked the guy. Which means the mafia guys probably had it, and since the episode went to all the trouble of telling us the watch was what they were looking for, no doubt we will find out why in a later episode. That's how serialised storytelling works. The early episodes set up all the plot points, and they then get resolved as the story goes along.

Yes, the dog only has one eye. Why is that a problem? It's a stray. It has clearly had a hard life, which is part of why Kate feels drawn to it.

[Ailianna]

The watch also had some kind of tag that said Avenger Compound, so I'm guessing they are trying to get in there. It's very on brand for Tony to have made the keys into something else.

I liked it, but I've liked Clint in all the movies. I like his everyman qualities. I'm not a comics reader, so I only know him from the MCU. And I like that the stakes are so relevant to so many lives lately, including mine. Will he get to see his family for the holidays?

[Spartan Girl]

Clearly, Broadway didn’t learn its lesson after Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark. That’s all I can say.

[Llywela]

1 minute ago, Spartan Girl said:

Clearly, Broadway didn’t learn its lesson after Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark. That’s all I can say.

Ohhhhhh, Rogers: The Musical was glorious, right? Everything we'd hoped it would be since seeing the poster in the trailer. Clint and Lila's incredulous faces were a picture! 🤣

Although, of course, it was only funny until it wasn't. Clint's face watching the Natasha actress dance - damn, that hurt. Kudos to Jeremy Renner, who I am generally not that fond of, but he is good at what he does.

[AimingforYoko]

4 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Clearly, Broadway didn’t learn its lesson after Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark. That’s all I can say.

Totally called the show-stopper would be "I Can Do This All Day".

Hailee Steinfeld was the perfect choice for Kate.

[Fool to cry]

"I can do this all daaaaay!" Awesome.

The opening credits did a great job telling the story of Kate's life and I love they were in the style of Aja's art.

Hailee Steinfeld really was the perfect choice. In her Kate Bishop I see the stubbornness of Mattie Ross in True Grit, the goofiness from Edge of Seventeen and the wide eyed wonder from Bumblebee.

ETA: I wondered where I had seen Armand Ducane III before and I now remember when he played Downton Abbey creator Julian Fellowes in the BBC Red Nose Day parody from ten years ago:

https://youtu.be/r5dMlXentLw

ETA again to post I learned he was also the happy go lucky bearded boyfriend of John Hannah in Four Weddings and a Funeral and his character's last name is spelled "Duquesne".

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Fool to cry

[HelloooKitty]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Clearly, Broadway didn’t learn its lesson after Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark. That’s all I can say.

Yeah, my second thought was “Wow! This is cheesy. And bad.”

 

my first thought was “is that Adam Pascal?”

[Cobalt Stargazer]

So when is this set? Kate saw the beginning of the Chitauri invasion in 2012, and her father died during the destruction of various buildings in that time. She tells Clint that she started studying martial arts when she was five (I think?) and in the present she's 22. Wouldn't that make this almost 2030? I keep losing track during the TV shows, since it was only a few days or maybe a week after Tony's funeral that WandaVision begins.

The most obvious suspect in Armand The Third's murder is Jack, who told him to leave Eleanor alone and called him an old goat, and because he also took the Ronin sword after the explosion at the auction. Much like Kate took the suit, but when the bidding was happening Armand said he knew Jack didn't have two hundred thousand dollars. So Jack is either broke and lying to Eleanor, or he's cash poor and all of his funds are tied up in things not easily liquidated. But going by the MCU"s track record of having their TV moms be bad, all of that might be just a red herring.

[starri]

No lie, Kate Bishop is one of my favorite Marvel characters.

Hailee Steinfeld is exactly who should be playing her.  She's perfect.

I'm having a slow day at work thus far, so I'm in my office watching on my laptop.  No lie, I squealed "Pizza Dog!" and yelped when the Tracksuit Draculas gave us the first "bro."  I am SO glad the door was shut.

[KittenPokerCheater]

When/why does Hawkeye wear a hearing aid?  What did I miss?

[cambridgeguy]

5 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

When/why does Hawkeye wear a hearing aid?  What did I miss?

All those years of being around explosions have understandably taken their toll. 

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Clearly, Broadway didn’t learn its lesson after Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark.

The punchline must be that Pepper Potts financed Rogers: The Musical

[rina9294]

Matt Fraction's Hawkeye run is my favorite comic series ever and this is a perfect meld of the Marvel cinematic universe and that series. Yes it's complicated with all the new characters but it really gets the vibe of Clint and Kate. I am beaming from watching this and it is what I needed after a crap work week.

[Llywela]

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

So when is this set? Kate saw the beginning of the Chitauri invasion in 2012, and her father died during the destruction of various buildings in that time. She tells Clint that she started studying martial arts when she was five (I think?) and in the present she's 22. Wouldn't that make this almost 2030? I keep losing track during the TV shows, since it was only a few days or maybe a week after Tony's funeral that WandaVision begins.

I imagine it is set around the same time as the other Disney+ shows. Kate was much older than five when we saw her in 2012, so her martial arts training pre-dates the Battle of New York. But I've lost track of where the 'present' is for the MCU anyway. Plus, there was the Snap and the UnSnap, which saw half the population skip five years. I was trying to calculate it from the ages of Clint's kids before I remembered that they were Snapped for five years too. I think the MCU is mid 2020s? Maybe? But don't quote me on that.

26 minutes ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

When/why does Hawkeye wear a hearing aid?  What did I miss?

He explains this (by way of flashback) in the episode when Kate asks. His hearing was damaged by spending too much time in the vicinity of very loud things while working as an Avenger. A nod to the comics, of course, because Comic Clint is deaf, but the explanation given here added a delightful touch of reality for me, since my dad was also wearing hearing aids by Clint's age, and his hearing was also damaged by spending too much time in the vicinity of very loud things in the workplace (in his case construction sites rather than epic battles, in the days before health and safety regulated these things, but still).

[Dandesun]

1 minute ago, cambridgeguy said:

All those years of being around explosions have understandably taken their toll. 

I thought they showed that very nicely with the quick montage of explosions and physical trauma that Clint has been around and through.

 

So I think this was a good start. I loved the credits showing Kate's development in her various skills in Aja's style. That was a super nice touch for comic book fans. I also really liked how they showed the Battle of New York from a completely different perspective. That was great and you can absolutely understand why young Kate fixated on Hawkeye and the bow and arrow (to start with anyway.) 

"I can do this all daaaaaaaaay!" Rogers: The Musical is exactly what I hoped for. But I was not expecting the full on heartstring tug when Natasha dance-fought across the stage and the music and sound disappeared and Clint was just... looking at her. I really love that Natasha's place in Clint's life is remembered by everyone but mostly him.

So that dude who asked for a selfie at the urinals was a tourist, right? New Yorkers are famous for not giving a shit about celebrities but... Broadway right before Christmas? That's totally an out of towner who does not follow proper protocol.

I'm so far glad that Lucky/Pizza Dog is just a stray because his arrival into Clint's life in the Fraction book is a bit on the traumatizing side. Although it certainly did it's job painting the Tracksuit Mafia as assholes. Right now, they're just the average crime group. We will see where that goes. I mean... sure they did successfully storm the black market auction but from there? We will see, indeed.

[tennisgurl]

Please tell me that the next season of Falcon and the Winter Soldier will open with Sam and Bucky sitting in the back of Rogers, heckling it. That was amazing, all that I wanted and more, especially when Clint started complaining about how Ant-Man wasn't even there and turned his hearing aid off. And yet it was still not as ridiculous as the Spiderman musical.  Then of course the feels started when actress Natasha started fight dancing. 

This was a great start to the show, I love how they are incorporating aspects of Aja's story and style, especially in the opening credits, with the already established MCU. Hailee Steinfeld is a perfect choice for Kate, she has that fun youthfulness as well as steely eyed determination. They set up a lot about her quickly, Kate's backstory of losing her dad in the Battle of New York (yeah, no reason to show a protagonists parent in the opening, unless the parent is toast) and being inspired by Hawkeye was set up really well, then the opening credits showing how she grew and trained in fighting and archery, and that as a college student she's well meaning but rather impulsive, she's likable but has room to grow as a person. 

Nice to see a but more of Clint's kids and I am really glad that they incorporated his comic self's deafness into the character, it makes perfect sense that he would start losing his hearing after being around explosions all the time for so long. I wonder if he feels awkward about people seeing him as a hero just because he thinks its awkward, or if he feels guilty about his time as a vigilante? Well, the creepy toilet guy would be awkward no matter what. Dude, timing. 

Pizza dog is such a good sweet boy. 

I love that Marvel was like "Hmm how do we make our Hawkeye show stand out a little bit more...make it a Christmas special!" 

[vb68]

I could watch Rogers: The Musical all day! It was hilarious!  

I enjoyed this! Hailee Steinfeld was perfect, and it was just a lot of fun.

Love the dog, too.

[arc]

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

Ohhhhhh, Rogers: The Musical was glorious, right? Everything we'd hoped it would be since seeing the poster in the trailer.

TBH, while the songs were hilarious and so was including Ant-Man, I was really taken aback by how cheap the costumes looked. This was supposed to be Broadway, not off-Broadway. I still loved it though.

I don’t think I buy that some (homebrew) trick arrow somehow caused the bell tower to collapse, esp because it did exactly what the normal action of ringing the bell should do.

[Fool to cry]

1 hour ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

When/why does Hawkeye wear a hearing aid?  What did I miss?

It's explained in a montage in episode 2. Reminded me of this I learned from Michael Caine's book on acting, when he was making The Swarm(1978):

Richard Widmark once gave me a piece of advice about large noises in film. He said: “Watch the special effects when you’re working, especially in Westerns.” I said, “Why is that, Dick?” "What?” he said. “Can you talk into my other ear?” So I said, “Why is that, Dick?” into his other ear. He says, “You know all those scenes in pictures where you see the cowboy and he ducks back, and the explosive goes off in the rocks? You talk to any one of us. We’re all deaf in one ear.” Henry Fonda, who was also there, joined in then and asked, “What did he say?”  So I said, “You made a lot of Westerns, too, didn’t you, Hank?” "Yeah, I did,” he said. All those fellows were deaf in one ear. It was the price they paid for being in a western.

Edited November 24, 2021 by Fool to cry

[Cobalt Stargazer]

48 minutes ago, Dandesun said:

"I can do this all daaaaaaaaay!" Rogers: The Musical is exactly what I hoped for. But I was not expecting the full on heartstring tug when Natasha dance-fought across the stage and the music and sound disappeared and Clint was just... looking at her. I really love that Natasha's place in Clint's life is remembered by everyone but mostly him.

I forgot to mention that I thought that was a really effective little moment, seeing that Clint still carries his memories of Nat no matter how long it's been. She was his closest friend, and we don't know how long it took him to work through the guilt of coming back from Vormir without her.

 

6 minutes ago, arc said:

I don’t think I buy that some (homebrew) trick arrow somehow caused the bell tower to collapse, esp because it did exactly what the normal action of ringing the bell should do.

What was attached to the second arrow? She tried a tennis ball first, and it pinged off and didn't do anything, so she used something solid enough to make the bell ring. When the creaking first starts, Kate mutters, "Maybe it's cracked. Some famous bells have cracks in them", and then the whole thing collapses before a security guard catches her on the scene. It could have been old or shoddy construction, or the bell was damaged, but nothing would have happened if she hadn't been fooling around because of a dare or bet.

[thuganomics85]

Hawkeye the show is here and kicks things off with... well, a little less Hawkeye then I expected.

In seriousness, I'm perfectly fine with the first episode being more about setting up Kate Bishop since she's clearly going to hopefully be a big character going forward in the MCU.  And I thought it was a pretty great introduction for a character I heard about, but wasn't overtly familiar with besides the Hawkeye connections.  I liked the flashback and seeing her perspective of the infamous 2012 Battle in New York and how Hawkeye saving her (even if he didn't know it) effected her going forward.  And I like that she is actually from high society, so she does have some privilege and carries with her a sense of someone who always has a safety net of some kind (combined with normal youthful arrogance), but you can already see that there is more to her than that.

But as I figured, the biggest factor is getting Hailee Steinfeld as Kate.  Always been a fan of her since first seeing her more than holding her own against the likes of Jeff Bridges and Matt Damon in the True Grit remake years ago, and while I was disappointed that she put her acting career on hold somewhat to focus on music, I'm glad that she seems to be getting back into it.  I really think she is an amazing talent and can't wait to see where she takes this character next.

Definitely suspicious of both Eleanor and Jack right now.  I feel like the show wants me to be more concerned about Jack right now (to be fair, he is played by Tony Dalton.  Never trust Lalo!), but I'm definitely keeping my eye on Eleanor.  If nothing else, I don't see them getting freaking Vera Farmiga of all people and have her merely be Kate's mom.

Pizza Dog!

The Captain America/Steve Rogers play was hilarious.  And had enough references that I choose to believe one of the Avengers or someone close to them has been writing a tell all book or leaking all of these inside lines, situations, etc.  Maybe it was Tony trying to impress someone.  Or Thor after too many meads.  Or since this play focuses on Steve, maybe it was all Bucky and Sam!

Still liked the Clint stuff though.  It was nice seeing more of his family (even a cameo from Laura/Linda Cardellini!) and their interaction.  And I like that they are addressing some of the issues that should be sticking with him like Natasha's death and his Ronin phase.  I know Jeremy Renner's been one of the more polarizing members of the cast (ironically, along with Scarlett Johansson), but I think he can acquire himself quite nicely when he needs.

More thoughts after I watch the second episode! 

Edited November 24, 2021 by thuganomics85

[wlk68]

1 hour ago, Dandesun said:

So that dude who asked for a selfie at the urinals was a tourist, right? New Yorkers are famous for not giving a shit about celebrities but... Broadway right before Christmas? That's totally an out of towner who does not follow proper protocol.

 

I have vague recollections of Jeremy Renner talking about a real life incident on one of the late night talk shows a number of years ago. He was approached in a similar situation by someone wanting a pic or an autograph while he was at a urinal. Can't help but wonder if they added it for that reason.

So far I am absolutely loving this. 

[arc]

22 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

What was attached to the second arrow? She tried a tennis ball first, and it pinged off and didn't do anything, so she used something solid enough to make the bell ring.

The first arrow hit the bell, to a decidedly underwhelming result. So the second arrow hit the rope attached to the dangling thing, and that swung around and rang the bell for real. She had rigged up some kind of rope-catching head to the second arrow, that’s all.

Also, wouldn’t holding the bowstring so close to her face have it hit her nose when she released?

[Llywela]

24 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

What was attached to the second arrow? She tried a tennis ball first, and it pinged off and didn't do anything, so she used something solid enough to make the bell ring. When the creaking first starts, Kate mutters, "Maybe it's cracked. Some famous bells have cracks in them", and then the whole thing collapses before a security guard catches her on the scene. It could have been old or shoddy construction, or the bell was damaged, but nothing would have happened if she hadn't been fooling around because of a dare or bet.

First shot hit the outside of the bell and bounced off, that was the tennis ball arrow. Didn't work because the bell casing is fixed in position - that's what the conversation with her friends was about. Second shot had some kind of grip mechanism on it - trick shot went under the outer casing of the bell to attach to the clapper, which is the moveable part that she set swinging to ring the bell.

How all that caused the whole bell tower to fall apart is a mystery. Perhaps the bell isn't normally sounded precisely because it is known to be damaged? I can see how trying to ring a bell that doesn't normally ring would be a worthy college dare, maybe. But it wasn't really clear, it was just a contrivance to show something of Kate's personality and privilege.

[Dandesun]

11 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

 

The Captain America/Steve Rogers play was hilarious.  And had enough references that I choose to believe one of the Avengers or someone close to them has been writing a tell all book or leaking all of these inside lines, situations, etc.  Maybe it was Tony trying to impress someone.  Or Thor after too many meads.  Or since this play focuses on Steve, maybe it was all Bucky and Sam!

 

I have no doubt in my mind that it was Luis because he would absolutely put Scott into the Battle of New York.

Bucky and Sam would troll Steve, they wouldn't be doing a tell all anything to anyone. They both love the guy way too much to trust anyone else with his story or giving him all the shit. Sam, however, would sing 'I can do this all daaaaaay' at Bucky JUST to annoy the shit out of him while Bucky frantically looks to book a flight to Wakanda to get away from it.

 

[Ms.Moon]

I got all verklempt over Clint watching the actress playing Tasha on stage.  He basically lost his sister and you see it on his face that he still loves and misses her.  

[Sakura12]

If Roger's the Musical went to Endgame, do you think people who were blipped watched it to see how it ended. Lol

[arc]

I just noticed all the (presumably) bad people in the auction and the auctioneer didn't seem particularly concerned that vigilante killer Ronin's suit and sword were recovered from the wreckage of the Avengers compound.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 minutes ago, arc said:

I just noticed all the (presumably) bad people in the auction and the auctioneer didn't seem particularly concerned that vigilante killer Ronin's suit and sword were recovered from the wreckage of the Avengers compound.

I was wondering about that too. Clint obviously left both the sword and the suit behind on purpose, but once the building was destroyed someone or a lot of someones must have gone picking through the rubble, either looking for souvenirs or for stuff that could eventually be sold. The only reason Kate made the news is because she was wearing the suit, since there had been no sightings of Ronin in the years after the swath that was cut through the criminal underground. Makes you wonder what else they might have scavenged, since as far as I can tell Barton really is retired by now, and is also out of touch with the ones who are left.

[arc]

It's also a little funny that the MCU's two youngest heroes (for now, Peter Parker and Kate Bishop) have their first stories based around villains looting from the Avengers.

[RedElf]

Kate's "apartment" is ... interesting.

If Jack is the nephew, and plans on inheriting, I wonder who the kid was in the family tree.

Pizza dog!

 

10 hours ago, Llywela said:

The dog was just a stray, in the wrong place at the wrong time.

That's Lucky the Pizza Dog.  In the comics, he belongs to Clint.

 

[paigow]

2 minutes ago, RedElf said:

Kate's "apartment" is ... interesting.

2 level unit above pizza place would be an uncommon AirBnB listing

[RedElf]

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I feel like the show wants me to be more concerned about Jack right now

Spoiler

Jack Duquesne is The Swordsman.  He's a supervillain.

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by saoirse
spoiler tagged comic information

[Kate47]

I'm just starting the episode and liking it so far, but I see you, Stane Tower!!

[SnarkShark]

I quite liked it.

 

I think a lot of fanboys are doing that lame fanboy thing of hating female protagonists.  Because this is definitely The Kate Show guest starring Clint, not the Clint Show guest starring Kate.  I'm personally okay with that.  Guess that differs from the Fraction books, but big deal.  She's a great actress, and definitely has the charm to pull this off.  

I've seen complaints about the pacing, and there is indeed a tiny bit of drag, but not TOO bad.  There's a lot to set up here.  Why Clint is in NY. Who Kate is and how she gets involved.  The overall plot of the various criminals and rich people.  I think that truly excellent animated sequence at the beginning, pretty much a masterpiece, did a lot of the work for them, but there was still a lot to stitch in.

Optimistic about the rest.  Not everything has to be galactic or multiversal or even international.  Thugs in NYC is fine with me.

11 hours ago, Llywela said:

I didn't like it, I don't know why, but I think it is because the new characters are too rich. I thought in the first episode that Kate's parents were having financial issues. Then her father dies and all of a sudden the family is richer than ever.

That's part of the comics.  Her being rich I mean.  Her STILL being rich after that opening doesn't seem random.  You can see it was supposed to be something we're supposed to notice and question. 

[paigow]

Tracksuit Mafia seems to be oddly inclusive. Most members are Russian / Serbian / Albanian types with outliers like Enrique??!!

Edited November 25, 2021 by paigow

[CCTC]

Good use of Carol of the Bells to build some suspense.

[jmonique]

Kate had me at "See, that's just it, Gary: You don't even know my name."

I also appreciated how she's medaled in multiple sports, but she wasn't automatically an ass-kicking superhero when her life was on the line. She held her own, but she also got thrown around and bruised.

Edited November 25, 2021 by jmonique

[AnimeMania]

Edited November 26, 2021 by AnimeMania

[AimingforYoko]

8 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

So when is this set?

Christmas 2025, per director Rhys Thomas.

[Guest]

I loved it. It obviously helps a lot that Hailee is perfect for the role. It was really well paced to give a lot information, set up all the plot points and establish Clint’s mindset. I loved that Kate got the suit by necessity rather than her just deciding to be a vigilante. 

The opening with The Battle of New York from Kate’s perspective was great. Particularly when you can watch it and know exactly when that happened on the movie. 

11 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

So when is this set? Kate saw the beginning of the Chitauri invasion in 2012, and her father died during the destruction of various buildings in that time. She tells Clint that she started studying martial arts when she was five (I think?) and in the present she's 22. Wouldn't that make this almost 2030? I keep losing track during the TV shows, since it was only a few days or maybe a week after Tony's funeral that WandaVision begins.

The opening shots was of medals and trophies that she had already won. So she was involved with martial arts, fencing and archery before 2012. Endgame was set in 2023. Based on @AimingforYoko’s post this in Christmas 2025 making it a little over two years after Endgame. Putting it after all the other movies and tv shows by a good bit. 

3 hours ago, CCTC said:

Good use of Carol of the Bells to build some suspense.

It really was. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Guest

[formerlyfreedom]

Please remember to take episode two talk to that topic; also, major comic spoilers should be tagged in the episode topics. If you have questions, please PM me, @saoirse, the forum lead. Thank you!

[Bruinsfan]

I don't think I'd seen Hailee Steinfeld in anything before (and only heard her voice work in Into the Spider-Verse), but she does indeed seem to be perfect casting as Kate Bishop. The show is winning me over by focusing largely on her, with relatively little of Renner revealing just how much less charming his murder-gremlin version of Clint Barton is than the one Fraction and Aja depicted. (I'm wondering, does Clint actually know his own children's names? He never seems to use them, even when addressing them directly—it's always "Buddy" or "your brothers.")

Edited November 25, 2021 by Bruinsfan

[Guest]

On rewatch I notice that the bell tower she damaged was Stane Tower. Nice Easter egg for Iron Man. 

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, RedElf said:

That's Lucky the Pizza Dog.  In the comics, he belongs to Clint.

Yeah, I know. I was answering a question about the dog's specific role in this episode. Which was to be a stray in the wrong place at the right time.

5 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

That's part of the comics.  Her being rich I mean.  Her STILL being rich after that opening doesn't seem random.  You can see it was supposed to be something we're supposed to notice and question. 

Just to note that in your post you seemed to be answering me, but it wasn't me who said the thing you were replying to. The quote function sometimes goes weird!

4 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Christmas 2025, per director Rhys Thomas.

Thank you! I was in the right ballpark when I assumed mid-2020s, then!

[swanpride]

Call me crazy, but I kind of digged the musical. I mean, the costumes looked soooo cheap, but the people playing it were so good, I actually forget about this pretty fast, because you could easily recognise many of the characters (minus Ant-man) by their gestures. The lyrics could be a touch move clever, but I loved the "I can do it all day" and the "Smash" moment....I was kind of disappointed that the end-credits didn't offer up a full version of the song. 

Also, it reminded me more of Hamilton - less because of what it looked like, but because of the content. And the one last name title. 

Anyway, to the actual story...I can't be the only one who get antsy the moment I read 2012....I was just waiting for the Chitauri attack from that moment forward. I really love the idea that learning fighting is basically a coping mechanism to deal with the trauma of that experience. 

[kittykat]

If we got a full length feature of Rogers the Musical I'd be all over it.  

Definitely enjoyed this.  I've been a Hailee Steinfeld fan since True grit so I'm glad to see her here.  I also thought the credits as training montage was a nice touch.  Also noticed the State Tower reference.

Clint saddened by stage Nat was *sniff*

[tv echo]

I liked the first episode overall. However, I was surprised at how much screen time Kate Bishop got in this episode. It felt like 70% Kate and 30% Clint. I actually found parts of Kate's back story kinda boring. I would've liked more Clint. Once Kate and Clint met and started interacting, I enjoyed the story more. 

The Rogers: The Musical production number was hilarious. And I have to admit that the musical hook, "I can do this all day," was memorable and catchy. Incidentally, TVLine posted the lyrics and Marvel Music posted an audio recording of the entire musical number being performed on stage in the first episode. Apparently they filmed the entire production number like a regular Broadway show number. I hope they release video of that entire number one day.

ETA: Oh, I see that the lyrics have been posted above in this thread.
 

Edited November 25, 2021 by tv echo

[bethy]

23 hours ago, Fool to cry said:

ETA: I wondered where I had seen Armand Ducane III before and I now remember when he played Downton Abbey creator Julian Fellowes in the BBC Red Nose Day parody from ten years ago:

https://youtu.be/r5dMlXentLw

ETA again to post I learned he was also the happy go lucky bearded boyfriend of John Hannah in Four Weddings and a Funeral and his character's last name is spelled "Duquesne".

He was also in the wonderful Room with a View. 

I really enjoyed it. I love the dad-ness of Hawkey with his kids. And seeing that come out some, too, with Kate. I wondered if this was the first Christmas since the blip. I know someone said this is set in 2025 - when did everyone get back from the blip? I'm horrible with the timing of the MCU. 

As has already been said, that moment in the musical when Clint was watching Natasha. Oooph. It's making me tear up a little just remembering it.