S04.E06: Young Love, Old Love and Take This Job and Shove It

[Pallas]

A tale of two newbies. While Darlene worries about Mark's finding friends in high school, Becky finds that she's finding herself in college. 

[Virtual]

So Mark and Becky are both starting at a new school? Should be interesting. 😆

[SoMuchTV]

Oh hey!  Jackie’s hair is new this episode, isn’t it?  I don’t hate it. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

This episode should have been aired before the Halloween episode, correct? It seems as though they are just now dealing with the damage to the roof after the storm.

[Annber03]

Aw, Mark. 

I totally understand him not coming to Darlene with all of this, both for the reasons he and Ben noted and because Darlene's been so focused on all her personal issues lately, to where it's harder for Mark, or anyone else, to feel like she's really in the right headspace to be there for them and talk with her. In fact, I'd say part of, if not the big reason, she's so pushy about this whole thing with Mark making a friend is because trying to meddle in others' affairs is a good distraction from her having to focus on her own.

That, and there's also the fact that Mark's a guy, and thus, he might feel a little more comfortable talking to another guy. And Ben did quite well in talking with him about everything. 

I'm glad that Mark ultimately decided to take things slow with Logan in the end. I hope they are able to stay in touch, it'd be nice to see where things go with them. Or, maybe Logan will ultimately be able to stay in Lanford, which could solve their problem right there, too. Either way, I'm interested to see what comes of that storyline :).

Also glad to see Becky thriving so much in school as she is, though I can also see where it's causing issues for her at work. Hopefully her suggestion of going part-time to help balance things better can work for her. 

Loved Dan's "reading the fine print" bit at the beginning, as well as his response when he came into the kitchen when Darlene and Ben were in there and asked what was wrong :D. 

[ESS]

18 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

This episode should have been aired before the Halloween episode, correct? It seems as though they are just now dealing with the damage to the roof after the storm.

Yes I believe so and it's no wonder I thought that kitchen was cut and I see it now it wasn't so I'm confused and relieved at the same time.  

I didn't like this episode too much, it was boring to me, but the Darlene/Neville scene was...interesting because they haven't had a scene together yet until now. I hated there wasn't really much Dan/Louise. 😢 

Edited November 4, 2021 by ESS

[Izzy85]

That tag scene with Becky was... I'm just going to come out and say it... my favorite! 🤪

[Starchild]

This episode felt messy to me.

After that first phone call, all of Becky's interactions with her college project team were commented on after the fact. We didn't see them interacting at all.

And I think between that first scene with Mark meeting Logan for the first time at the diner, and the next watching Casablanca, a whole month had gone by, because suddenly they were messing around and Mark was in love and thinking about having sex to keep Logan invested in a long distance relationship.

I can tell you that I'm certainly not invested, having missed everything that would have gone on between them to build up to that kind of feeling.

Virtually everything significant happened off screen. It was a master class in tell, don't show.

[Bastet]

It was a major missed opportunity* not to draw a more specific parallel to Darlene's difficulty transitioning from junior high to high school, when her only friend was also an adult (Karen, the bookstore owner).  Mark would still dismiss Darlene as Darlene did Roseanne - as teenagers do - but it should have come up.

Also Darlene saying it's like her glomming on to David, but he didn't have to leave, so they didn't have to rush things:  Um, David moved in with the Conners because Mr. Healy bailed with the girls and Mrs. Healy, who wanted to take David with her, was abusive, so they lived together in this weird amalgamation.

Mark should point out his orientation adds another layer, but the underlying parallels were oddly absent.

(*That's pretty much this spinoff's MO, but I'm still here, so they're doing the minimum necessary to make it work.)

Mark and Logan dealing with their clueless adults amused me, though.  "Good story, man/I know, right?" was wonderful in its simplicity, their awkwardness was adorable, and Mark's talk with Ben was perfectly nuanced.

(Ben is there too much, but he's good with the kids, so I hope they'll continue to figure out a way to keep him part of the Conner orbit without being Darlene's boyfriend.)

And Becky getting past her insecurities about being an older student and embracing the experience she was always meant to have, even if it's delayed, is lovely.  The tag was funny, too; I'll stick with this show for nothing else than the hope of Becky finding her stalled way back to who she is.

[Tdoc72]

I like Ben the character, really like the actor Jay R Ferguson (so hot!) and even like him & Darlene together.  But I wish they’d either have Darlene & Ben get back together or write him off the show.  I guess he could make occasional hardware store appearances. Why is he hanging at their house on multiple occasions?  
 

I did find it funny they were talking about The Outsiders when Jay was Ponyboy in the (shortlived) tv series. 

[One Tough Cookie]

6 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

like Ben the character, really like the actor Jay R Ferguson (so hot!) and even like him & Darlene together.  But I wish they’d either have Darlene & Ben get back together or write him off the show.  I guess he could make occasional hardware store appearances. Why is he hanging at their house on multiple occasions?  

i think  Ben, at this. point, considers himself a surrogate for Mark.

[zoey1996]

7 minutes ago, One Tough Cookie said:

i think  Ben, at this. point, considers himself a surrogate for Mark.

This, plus in an earlier episode, Mark asked if he and Ben could still have their movie night. Darlene at first objected, but changed her mind to benefit Mark, who needed the continuity/stability that the established movie night gave him. Imagine, Darlene putting Mark first!

[mojoween]

It was either a weird acting or directing choice for Ben to touch Mark so much when they were talking on the couch.  Ben hit Mark’s knee, he hit his arm, he hit his knee, he grabbed his shoulder.  Once I noticed it the first time, it was distracting the rest of the scene.

Edited November 7, 2021 by mojoween

[iMonrey]

Quote

I like Ben the character, really like the actor Jay R Ferguson (so hot!) and even like him & Darlene together.  But I wish they’d either have Darlene & Ben get back together or write him off the show.  I guess he could make occasional hardware store appearances. Why is he hanging at their house on multiple occasions?  

Yeah, this. It's totally weird that he spends to much time at the Conner house when there is still so much hostility between him and Darlene. I understand that Mark still feels close to him, but think of it from Ben's perspective. You don't move on from an ex-girlfriend by spending all your free time with her kid at her house. 

Quote

This, plus in an earlier episode, Mark asked if he and Ben could still have their movie night. Darlene at first objected, but changed her mind to benefit Mark, who needed the continuity/stability that the established movie night gave him.

Yes but he was there in an earlier scene and he was there after the fact. It just feels like they don't know what to do with the character now that he and Darlene are broken up, and he feels very out of place to me. 

[Jillybean]

I agree. Ben is there way too much and if they wanted to keep him in the picture at the Connor household, the two of them shouldn't have broken up. It makes no sense that he'd spend all his free time there.

Edited November 4, 2021 by Jillybean

[Snow Apple]

10 hours ago, Tdoc72 said:

 

I did find it funny they were talking about The Outsiders when Jay was Ponyboy in the (shortlived) tv series. 

I caught that too and was wondering who else remember that show and Jay as Ponyboy.

[RunningMarket]

The giveaway line was "there goes the honeymoon fund". Yes, we learned that last week. Why does this show in particular seem to run episodes out of order so often?

I like Ben far more than Darlene at the moment, so I would prefer him to be hanging around the house providing guidance to the kids that their own mother can't. 

I'm glad Becky is having fun at school and getting involved. This is far more like OG Becky who was an A student and involved in committees and the like.

[MissLucas]

When Darlene barked at Ben: 'Why are you still here?' I couldn't resist and mumble 'Because his name is still in the opening credits.' The writers are really failing the characters here. I like Ben but it is weird for him to still hang around so much at the Conners house even when taking into account that both Dan and Mark want to remain in contact. The whole marriage-proposal plot was a trainwreck that's still causing problems.

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by MissLucas

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Even with that side gig advising young HS dropouts, Becky will undoubtedly be making a lot less money working part-time at the sports bar, yet she doesn't seem concerned about this.  So no rent from Harris, and less rent from Becky?  (Although realistically, with a good management job and she and Mark occupying 2 of the 3 original bedrooms, Darlene should be paying the bulk of the mortgage and house expenses.)

[Marley]

I thought this episode sucked.

Darlene probably shouldn’t lecture ppl on friends when she doesn’t have any that I can see.

Becky is going part time because she’s in college? How can she afford this? I thought she was broke. I don’t care about her going to college really it’s stupid.

Dan is like in his 60s and doesn’t have proper insurance? How can he continue to be such an idiot. With all them there paying rent too how can he still be so in debt.

[Rocknrollzombie]

16 hours ago, Marley said:

Becky is going part time because she’s in college? How can she afford this? I thought she was broke. I don’t care about her going to college really it’s stupid.

Dan is like in his 60s and doesn’t have proper insurance? How can he continue to be such an idiot. With all them there paying rent too how can he still be so in debt.

Honestly I didn’t even watch full episode just skimmed it. On the website I used to watch.

I’m not even doing part time myself.  I officially got an 8 hour shift job to help out my family and I’m in four classes/fully enrolled.

 The amount of stress and anxiety I have gotten in the last three years. Plus the times it had crossed my mind just to drop out.

I give  Becky three month tops or a semester before she finally cracks under the pressure just like many have before.

for those who are giddy about seeing school Becky. yeah no we would have seen school Becky sooner if it was still Roseanne. Amazing how  it took the writers for the Conners  three seasons, and  a drama filled episode.

While in now seem to have been forgotten season 10 didn’t need three seasons and a drama filled episode to set it up. Season 10 Becky was ready to get into it and get a degree in business management thanks to the suggestion of Darlene. If the writers or in this case the producers have two brain cells to rub together for these sometimes ridiculous plots I doubt they would remember that.

Anyways I didn’t see the scene of Mark and Logan but the fact that just reading that  they are 14 and they have them talking and thinking of doing the deed yeah no that’s pretty disgusting honestly of who ever wrote and suggested that as a plot. 
 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Rocknrollzombie
Added more after reading

[SoMuchTV]

I guess I’ll be the one to say - they’re still doing that thing where you wear a mask outdoors and take it off when you come inside. Okay then. I suppose Lanford is in an upside down world where virus floats in the outdoor air. 

[Marley]

They should’ve just ignored Covid all together on this show honestly.

[CrystalBlue]

Darlene asking Ben why he's still there?  Why is Darlene still there?  I thought she got an apartment for Ben and her (and presumably Harris and Mark but we never really knew) to move in to when she was trying to get Ben back after the failed marriage proposal.  I guess they dropped that story and Darlene continues to suck the air out of Dan and now Louise's house.  Dan still can't afford anything with all these people still paying rent?

The episode was shown out of order because we already know the honeymoon was canceled.

Welcome to The Conners, Louise!  No honeymoon and a $3,000 new roof needed before the next storm.

How convenient that Logan is also gay so Mark can have a gay BF at the age of 14 and talk about having sex.  Darlene telling him he isn't physically and emotionally ready for that is the smartest thing said in this episode.

[Cherpumple]

8 hours ago, RunningMarket said:

I'm glad Becky is having fun at school and getting involved. This is far more like OG Becky who was an A student and involved in committees and the like.

Yes! I'm so happy about the return of school nerd Becky and I hope it lasts.

Agree with all the comments about how awkward Ben's presence is in the Conner house. I especially didn't like how nasty Darlene was being to him. She doesn't have to like him or be around him, but the constant snide comments are really immature. It sucks that he didn't want to marry her, but it's hardly a crime. It's not like he cheated on her for months, and constantly lied to her. Oh wait, that was her.

I must be getting old, because Mark and Logan look so much younger to me than Becky and Darlene did at their age. That whole story line creeped me out because they look like babies.

[Aileen]

22 hours ago, Starchild said:

 

And I think between that first scene with Mark meeting Logan for the first time at the diner, and the next watching Casablanca, a whole month had gone by, because suddenly they were messing around and Mark was in love and thinking about having sex to keep Logan invested in a long distance relationship.

Yes. It was stated that Logan had been hanging around the Conners for 3 weeks.

[UYI]

22 hours ago, Bastet said:

 

Also Darlene saying it's like her glomming on to David, but he didn't have to leave, so they didn't have to rush things:  Um, David moved in with the Conners because Mr. Healy bailed with the girls and Mrs. Healy, who wanted to take David with her, was abusive, so they lived together in this weird amalgamation.

 

THANK YOU. That was a GLARING oversight and I noticed it instantly.

I loved Mark's story and Becky's continued interest in school as she gets used to being a student again; those were easily the best parts of the episode.

Was the only one uncomfortable with the jokes about Jackie having slapped Darlene at Thanksgiving, though? Granted, I've wanted to slap Darlene myself for awhile now, but I'm not related to her.

Finally: I like Darlene and Ben sniping together; Ben had every right to break up with her and I want them to stay broken up, but if he is going to continue working with Dan at the hardware store, this is about all I can stand between the two of them (along with him being a mentor to Mark). 

[YupItsMe]

15 hours ago, zoey1996 said:

This, plus in an earlier episode, Mark asked if he and Ben could still have their movie night. Darlene at first objected, but changed her mind to benefit Mark, who needed the continuity/stability that the established movie night gave him. Imagine, Darlene putting Mark first!

I had forgotten this and couldn’t figure out why Ben was hanging around their house so much.

[Bastet]

15 hours ago, zoey1996 said:

This, plus in an earlier episode, Mark asked if he and Ben could still have their movie night. Darlene at first objected, but changed her mind to benefit Mark, who needed the continuity/stability that the established movie night gave him. Imagine, Darlene putting Mark first!

 

4 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

I had forgotten this and couldn’t figure out why Ben was hanging around their house so much.

That (movie night) was in the wedding episode, and this episode was written and shot as the next episode, but wound up airing two episodes later.  So Ben being in the Conner home so much in this one was intended to come right on the heels of Mark telling Darlene off about trying to stifle his relationship with Ben because of her own issues with him. 

He's still there more than I think is healthy for anyone, whatever the timing, but I do think there's potential in exploring how he - given his professional relationship with Dan and his personal relationship with Mark - slots into the Conner family now that his primary association is not as Darlene's live-in boyfriend.  So I hope it settles into a more realistic dynamic, but I fear that with a bloated cast and limited sets we'll continue to see him shoehorned into scenes in the Conner home.

[HurricaneVal]

So...how long before Louise takes over managing the sports bar with Jackie?  3...2...1...

[Marley]

Logan showing up was so clunky. Someone sends their kid to live with their friend for at least a month while they are getting divorced? Lol lame. They couldn’t think of something better then that.

[ESS]

18 minutes ago, HurricaneVal said:

So...how long before Louise takes over managing the sports bar with Jackie?  3...2...1...

I actually think it’s not a bad idea to have her help out Jackie after all, Louise does have a lot of experience with that and she is gonna need help especially since Becky isn’t gonna be around much. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by ESS

[Yeah No]

What a crappy episode.  How stupid for Ben to be around so much even with the explanation.  It makes me think the show wants to put him and Darlene back together eventually.  Maybe it wouldn't have seemed so bad if it aired in the order that would have made so much in it make more sense.  I too was a little weirded out at the thought of 14 year olds talking about having sex.  Are we supposed to think it's OK just because they're both boys?  Not in my book, anyway.  And how contrived for both of them to be conveniently gay and know what they are at that age.  If this is some attempt at showing how "enlightened" the show is, it's not working for me.  They're about 40 years too late for that.

8 hours ago, Marley said:

Dan is like in his 60s and doesn’t have proper insurance? How can he continue to be such an idiot. With all them there paying rent too how can he still be so in debt.

At his age he should have Medicare already.  John Goodman is 69 years old.

 

[HurricaneVal]

I actually kind of like this push/pull dynamic between Darlene and Ben.  It reminds me of when they were flirting before they got together.  The whole coffee scene was funny, as Darlene advanced and retracted the mismatched mugs.

Now, what would be great is if David never existed, and Ben is the ex and dad of the kids.  That would explain why he's always there, why he's giving life advice to the kids, why he and Darlene are in each other's orbits, allowing for that push/pull, and gives better reason for the tension with Dan working at the hardware store.

[CrystalBlue]

Dan definitely would be on Medicare Parts A and B, hopefully with a Medicare Advantage or other supplemental plan that has no additional premium and provides extra benefits for freeeeeee!  The insurance he screwed up was his homeowners insurance because he is too cheap or too poor to pay to have his eyes checked and couldn't read the fine print of his homeowners policy.

Ben will be around for awhile when he ends up helping Dan put on a new roof.  The Darlene-Ben sniping will continue.

[Yeah No]

13 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Dan definitely would be on Medicare Parts A and B, hopefully with a Medicare Advantage or other supplemental plan that has no additional premium and provides extra benefits for freeeeeee!  The insurance he screwed up was his homeowners insurance because he is too cheap or too poor to pay to have his eyes checked and couldn't read the fine print of his homeowners policy.

Does he still have a mortgage on the house?  Because usually mortgage lenders require at least some homeowner's insurance.

[Bastet]

59 minutes ago, Yeah No said:

And how contrived for both of them to be conveniently gay and know what they are at that age.

I don't remember anyone batting an eye at Becky (or Darlene, but Becky dated more) knowing she was straight at 14, and I similarly don't have any objection to Mark and Logan knowing their sexual orientation at this age.  In fact, LGBT teens, even though having to recognize and accept they're different than what is treated as the norm unlike straight teens who don't have to confront their feelings the same way, have an average age of awareness right around fourteen.

1 hour ago, Yeah No said:

I too was a little weirded out at the thought of 14 year olds talking about having sex. 

Across all genders and orientations, the average age of sexual activity is around 16-17, so 14 is increasingly not unusual.  Becky was 15 the first time Roseanne and Jackie talked to her about safe sex and that was many, many moons ago.

It still feels young to me, but it's not totally out there.  The issue of contemplating having sex - at any age, let alone that young - in order to hold onto someone deserved more attention than it got, though.  The franchise did much better with Becky, Darlene, and Harris, who were ready, and D.J., who wasn't, than they did with Mark's first time seriously considering it.

[Yeah No]

5 hours ago, Bastet said:

I don't remember anyone batting an eye at Becky (or Darlene, but Becky dated more) knowing she was straight at 14, and I similarly don't have any objection to Mark and Logan knowing their sexual orientation at this age.  In fact, LGBT teens, even though having to recognize and accept they're different than what is treated as the norm unlike straight teens who don't have to confront their feelings the same way, have an average age of awareness right around fourteen.

Across all genders and orientations, the average age of sexual activity is around 16-17, so 14 is increasingly not unusual.  Becky was 15 the first time Roseanne and Jackie talked to her about safe sex and that was many, many moons ago.

It still feels young to me, but it's not totally out there.  The issue of contemplating having sex - at any age, let alone that young - in order to hold onto someone deserved more attention than it got, though.  The franchise did much better with Becky, Darlene, and Harris, who were ready, and D.J., who wasn't, than they did with Mark's first time seriously considering it.

I'm a first time watcher of this show so my reactions are based on what I see here, not what was done in decades past in the former series. I feel that 14 is a little too young for anyone to be suggesting going "upstairs" to engage in some unspecified "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" behavior.  15 is pushing it too, but one year can make a big difference at that age, especially for girls who mature faster emotionally than boys.  A lot of boys aren't even ready to think about sexual relationships at 14 much less engage in one.  It looked to me like Mark wasn't ready to go that far either and that's one reason he was not just jumping into it.  Our society gets all over sex with minors and in other contexts would consider this child abuse so I don't see why it's any more acceptable just because the kids are the same age (or the same sex).  That's just my opinion.

Edited November 5, 2021 by Yeah No

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

How convenient that Logan is also gay so Mark can have a gay BF at the age of 14 and talk about having sex. 

It makes sense to me -- who else but another gay boy would he be considering sex with? 

Edited November 5, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[CrystalBlue]

8 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Does he still have a mortgage on the house?  Because usually mortgage lenders require at least some homeowner's insurance.

He has homeowners insurance, it just didn't cover tornado damage.

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, TattleTeeny said:

It makes sense to me -- who else but another gay boy would he be considering sex with? 

Logan could have been a straight kid who gets introduced to a gay kid of the same gender; gays are allowed to have straight friends and vice versa in the real world.  If Mark can't make any friends in the months he's been at his new school, it makes him sound like he only seeks out who he thinks might be or is gay and shuts out the other boys and girls he could be friends with.  It's weird that the show has made Mark a kid who has trouble finding friends.  He's quite talkative and animated.

[TattleTeeny]

11 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Logan could have been a straight kid who gets introduced to a gay kid of the same gender; gays are allowed to have straight friends and vice versa in the real world. 

They can? Who knew?! Just kidding; obviously they can (and I never intimated otherwise at all), but this was about sex, not strictly friendship.

But yes, Mark seems like someone who would make friends very easily (though I don't get the vibe that he seeks out only other gay kids).

Edited November 5, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[txhorns79]

On 11/4/2021 at 12:31 AM, Starchild said:

And I think between that first scene with Mark meeting Logan for the first time at the diner, and the next watching Casablanca, a whole month had gone by, because suddenly they were messing around and Mark was in love and thinking about having sex to keep Logan invested in a long distance relationship.

I can tell you that I'm certainly not invested, having missed everything that would have gone on between them to build up to that kind of feeling.

For me, I think the biggest shock of this episode was realizing that they dress Mark like a slightly more fashionable version of Mr. Rogers.  That said, I agree, they really rushed the Mark/Logan relationship, and it would have been better as a two or three episode ongoing story than the rush job they did here.   

[CrystalBlue]

15 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

For me, I think the biggest shock of this episode was realizing that they dress Mark like a slightly more fashionable version of Mr. Rogers.  That said, I agree, they really rushed the Mark/Logan relationship, and it would have been better as a two or three episode ongoing story than the rush job they did here.   

At least he's out of his glitter and skirts phase.  At least Mark decided on his own to not embark on a sexual relationship as a way to manipulate his BF to not forget about him.

[KayVeeTeeVee]

Given that Mark and Logan are 'only' 14, I assumed they were going to have a make-out session, not sex.  Mark pretty much admitted he'd not really even kissed someone and Logan seemed to be too confident of his prowess - which to me was a dead giveaway that he, too, was a novice.

 

 Just me?

[marceline]

2 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

At least he's out of his glitter and skirts phase.  

Thank goodness. Given how tall this kid is any skirt would look like a micro-mini on him.

[Cherpumple]

13 hours ago, HurricaneVal said:

I actually kind of like this push/pull dynamic between Darlene and Ben.

If they can get over the bitterness and just be happily broken up, I'm totally fine with their creative snarking. It would bring back the Jackie/Bev or Roseanne/Leon dynamic of the original show that I always loved.

I love the idea of Jackie and Louise running the Lunchbox together. Louise has plenty of experience and I'd love to see those two interact more.

[chitowngirl]

Didn’t Mark have any friends in Middle School that would have moved on to High School with him?

Re: episode order-there was a repeat of the Live season opener a few weeks ago that might have messed with the episodes and they needed to tweak the order so the Halloween episode aired at the right time.

[Marley]

I think Mark changed schools. He’s at a super smart kid school now.

I think I’m getting old because idc gay straight whatever but to me Mark and Logan look so young! They look like 8 years old so that’s what creeped me out and made me FF lol.

[TattleTeeny]

Maybe the town has more than one high school? Does this happen? Mine had two grammar schools but one junior high and one high school, which two more towns attended. Maybe it’s something like that and he kind of got lost in the shuffle of a swarm of different kids?