S11.E12: Circle of Distrust

[kristen111]

I wonder if orange is Erika’s favorite color?  Maybe they will make a special color of PINK, just for a Star.

[FancyNancy]

11 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

It's 2021 and these women still don't understand why "I don't see color" is both insulting and clueless. Poor Garcelle and Crystal having to listen to that bullshit and Dorit's protests that her mom's best friend is black. I give Garcelle credit for not laughing in Dorit's face.

‘Cause I sure laughed lol. 

[FancyNancy]

11 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Kathy .. I don’t know her …. God I love her 

I missed that part. Who was she talking about? Oh wait…. Was it when Dorit was saying how long they’ve known Ericka? 

Edited August 12, 2021 by FancyNancy

[Keywestclubkid]

8 minutes ago, FancyNancy said:

I missed that part. Who was she talking about? Oh wait…. Was it when Dorit was saying how long they’ve known Ericka? 

They were talking about how long they have known Erika yea ... Kathy "I don't know her" .LOL

[65mickey]

Kathy saying I don't know her reminds me of I didn't see anything, hear anything or know anything and I ain't talking. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

34 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

While Sutton’s statement is not correct, my interpretation is she meant what Tom (and Erika) have done is not “just” someone cooking the books, or embezzling funds from a corporation.

Sutton is classist and stupid.  She sees white collar crime as victimless, when it often is absolutely not.  What happened in 2008?

She thinks "Crime that has victims" is a lowly thing that only low class people do, not those white collar criminals who never ever hurt people.  The statement she made is stupid for multiple reasons.

[BusyOctober]

6 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Sutton is classist and stupid. 

This is true of just about every single one of the Housewives, across every franchise!

I only watch NY and BH, but I have seen and heard much more egregious stupidity and classist stuff from Ramona, Sonja, Rinna, Dorit, Luann, Dorinda, Brandi, Kyle, Kim, ERIKA…

[FancyNancy]

10 hours ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Rinna  really fixed those floatation devices above her chin, to come for Garcelle?

After Erika got the vapors, realizing she said too much.

That Talking Lifeboat repeatedly grilled Denise over pure BS last season.

“The vapors” took me out and took me back lol.

[chlban]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Sutton thinks that "White collar crime" doesn't have victims.  First of all, oh my god.

Sutton:  "These aren't white collar crimes.  These are crimes that have victims."  I am shocked that somebody could be so fucking stupid.  

Dorit has become Teddy.  Completely superfluous.

I think the term she was looking for was victimless crimes. People mispeak, even smart ones. So far Sutton seems to be the only one full on pegging Erika for what she is, so I do not think she is stupid. 

[chlban]

10 hours ago, CSunshine76 said:

I can’t believe she complained about being asked to rinse her plate. And complained kyle didn’t have help at her vacation home. WTF. Does this bitch even wipe her own ass? Come on Dorit, we all know you are not that rich. 

Dog dumping Dorit will never redeem herself with me and this season she really has had no storyline  Her silly costumes are all she's got. If the bitch can't rinse a plate and put it in the dishwasher, stay home. 

[chlban]

7 hours ago, ivygirl said:

You’ve all covered Rinna’s gall so well I don’t need to go there.

So: Dorit. Garcelle didn’t say only brown-skinned people work at your house. She asked if the only brown-skinned people in your home were working there. There IS a difference.

But her mom's best friend is black. Yikes. I hope Eboni was taking notes on how to have an organic conversation about race that might actually allow viewers to listen instead of rolling their eyes  Between that and her comments on Rinna's BS, she confirmed her queen status. Points to Crystal as well for her contribution to the race conversation. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by chlban

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, Vanderboom said:

She won me over by muttering "we did this already" to Crystal during the race discussion.

That is actually the one point she pissed me off on this episode. She only learned to be silent and smirked when Crystal defensively said yes, I wasn’t bringing it up to you. She hasn’t listened or learned she just liked that she wasn’t being called out. Kathy took being called out so much better than Sutton, she didn’t shut down the conversation and allowed people to speak about why it’s problematic. As I said her face is frozen, so have no idea if Kathy took anything in but Dorit took over in the white people being problematic assholes from both Sutton and Kathy!

Edited August 12, 2021 by biakbiak

[biakbiak]

15 minutes ago, chlban said:

Yikes. I hope Eboni was taking notes on how to have an organic conversation about race that might actually allow viewers to listen instead of rolling their eyes

To be fair Garcelle has actual support from Crystal and not people screaming at her and then implying she is the only one screaming. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by biakbiak

[eleanorofaquitaine]

7 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

To be fair Garcelle has actual support from Crystal and not people screaming at her and then implying she is the only one screaming. 

And Kyle, which is I think kind of important to why the conversation - while fraught - did not devolve into something else. Kyle actually did what a good ally is supposed to do. She didn't try to overtake the conversation nor did she try to explain Garcelle's position but she backed Garcelle up in a few key moments that I think prevented either Kathy or Dorit from going down some problematic avenues.  

(To be fair to Kathy, she doesn't seem like she's a yeller in general, but I suspect that if Kyle wasn't there backing Garcelle up, she would have pushed back a bit more).

But I also don't want to make it seem like Kyle was the important one there - Garcelle was.  She has a very calm and methodical way of talking about her experience as a Black woman that is impossible to ignore.  She deserves a lot of credit for how she's handled these discussions this season but I can also imagine that it gets exhausting for her (and for Crystal). 

[Keywestclubkid]

23 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

That is actually the one point she pissed me off on this episode. She only learned to be silent and smirked when Crystal defensively said yes, I wasn’t bringing it up to you. She hasn’t listened or learned she just liked that she wasn’t being called out. Kathy took being called out so much better than Sutton, she didn’t shut down the conversation and allowed people to speak about why it’s problematic. As I said her face is frozen, so have no idea if Kathy took anything in but Dorit took over in the white people being problematic assholes from both Sutton and Kathy!

Yesss if you watch Sutton got this shit eating look on her face when Kathy brought up well MJ didn't see color like she was somehow gonna be validated in her use of that in her "talk"( i use that loosely) with Crystal before... But Crystal didn't have Garcelle to have her back in that conversation and it went left... Again I will give it to Sutton for keeping her mouth closed this time tho esp when she saw the tide turning with Garcelle saying do any of you have to teach your children what to do and not do around police? And you can live in your i don't see color world all you want but I don't get that luxury...  I really do hope Sutton learned something and isnt just nodding along

[chlban]

6 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

And Kyle, which is I think kind of important to why the conversation - while fraught - did not devolve into something else. Kyle actually did what a good ally is supposed to do. She didn't try to overtake the conversation nor did she try to explain Garcelle's position but she backed Garcelle up in a few key moments that I think prevented either Kathy or Dorit from going down some problematic avenues.  

(To be fair to Kathy, she doesn't seem like she's a yeller in general, but I suspect that if Kyle wasn't there backing Garcelle up, she would have pushed back a bit more).

But I also don't want to make it seem like Kyle was the important one there - Garcelle was.  She has a very calm and methodical way of talking about her experience as a Black woman that is impossible to ignore.  She deserves a lot of credit for how she's handled these discussions this season but I can also imagine that it gets exhausting for her (and for Crystal). 

While I understand Kathy's comment, attributed to Michael Jackson, about not seeing color,  is now problematic but, in all honesty, it is only in the last couple of years that I became aware of that and why. Kathy is only a few years younger than I am and most if us were raised to believe not seeing color was the goal. So, I did not have the feeling that Kathy meant anything offensive and I think Garcelle did a great job of explaining, not attacking or lecturing.

[biakbiak]

17 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

And Kyle, which is I think kind of important to why the conversation - while fraught - did not devolve into something else. Kyle actually did what a good ally is supposed to do.

Yes! I often forget to include Kyle because she bores me but actually part of Kathy’s face moved when Kyle spoke. It’s  legit why I can’t compare how Garcelle and Eboni deal with the conversations about race because they aren’t on even playing fields with support and surely not in the screaming responses. Most of NYC can’t even get to “I don’t see color” without adding because I have also felt marginalized! Much less stay silent and listen to why that’s problematic.

Crystal has remained calm in her discussion with Sutton when she talked about the same issues that Garcelle did. Difference is Kathy didn’t start to cry and equate being white to being Chinese or black.

Edited August 12, 2021 by biakbiak

[amarante]

I just wanted to add to the Dorit being almost as tone deaf as Ramona is that when Dorit made the obviously racist statement that her children loved their "brown" nannies and housekeepers and Garcelle challenged her on what people of color came to their house other than household help, Dorit floundered and then said that Garcelle had visited as if that proved that the children experienced a culturally and racially diverse home.😂

I will give Sutton a pass on the "victimless crime" because it was clear that she meant to distinguish between what Tom had done which was to steal from individuals and what is generally meant by "white collar victimless crime" which is to trade on insider information. Ponzi schemes are generally not considered to be white collar crimes although they are financial crimes because there was stealing from actual gullible victims.

I don't buy into the conspiracy theory that Rinna is laundering money for Erika but I do think that her defense of Erika is based on more than her "claim" of having developed over the past year so she no longer feels it is right to act as she did in the past without mercy to her coworkers (or any one else presumably). Rinna and Erika share the same business management firm. At this point in time given what is actually known about Erika and Tom, her continued defense on WWHL makes no sense in terms of her still backing Erika unequivocally. You could take a more neutral position. 

Here is a clip of Rinna last night continuing to defend her defense of Erika and not requiring her to "own it".

https://www.vulture.com/2021/08/watch-lisa-rinna-defend-erika-jayne-drop-f-bombs-on-wwhl.html#_ga=2.267564238.1793690821.1628778630-1519065426.1622489877

PK is hardly a beacon of moral integrity but in his amoral way he completely grasped the situation - you cannot support her if what is alleged is true. What is implicit in that statement is that after The LA Times article you must move back from the whole situation and start saying that you don't have all of the facts but that the alleged facts are reprehensible and that Erika's contradictory statements are suspicious. 

The LA Times article is worth reading just to put things into context in terms of what was known. As Garcelle said, the LA Times is NOT a tabloid of any kind - it is probably one of the respected metropolitan newspapers with many Pulitzers and other awards and it practices serious highly researched accurate reporting. 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by amarante

[eleanorofaquitaine]

16 minutes ago, chlban said:

While I understand Kathy's comment, attributed to Michael Jackson, about not seeing color,  is now problematic but, in all honesty, it is only in the last couple of years that I became aware of that and why. Kathy is only a few years younger than I am and most if us were raised to believe not seeing color was the goal. So, I did not have the feeling that Kathy meant anything offensive and I think Garcelle did a great job of explaining, not attacking or lecturing.

I don't think Kathy meant anything offensive, either, to be fair. Garcelle's talking head helped to explain why that is a problematic view - Garcelle can't ignore being Black - but I also thought that exchange was respectful on both parts. 

[biakbiak]

17 minutes ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

don't think Kathy meant anything offensive,

I don’t disagree but Kathy in 2021 casually bringing up Michael Jackson in how she learned about race relations is so much to unpack!

[Cheyanne11]

43 minutes ago, amarante said:

Here is a clip of Rinna last night continuing to defend her defense of Erika and not requiring her to "own it".

https://www.vulture.com/2021/08/watch-lisa-rinna-defend-erika-jayne-drop-f-bombs-on-wwhl.html#_ga=2.267564238.1793690821.1628778630-1519065426.1622489877

Oh, that's rich.  Acting like she's going to sit back and let other people question Erika ("why should I have to do everything?") and yet when Garcelle did that (in a much less obnoxious, offensive way than Rinna ever has), she got on Garcelle's case.  

And what's with the lime green suit and big, clunky sunglasses?  Is she cosplaying '70's era Elton John?

[eleanorofaquitaine]

10 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I don’t disagree but Kathy in 2021 casually bringing up Michael Jackson in how she learned about race relations is so much to unpack!

Can't disagree with you there! 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, chlban said:

But her mom's best friend is black. Yikes.

When she said that I pictured some black woman somewhere looking up and saying, "Who, me? I'm not your mom's best friend. Did she tell you I was?" 

1 hour ago, chlban said:

While I understand Kathy's comment, attributed to Michael Jackson, about not seeing color,  is now problematic but, in all honesty, it is only in the last couple of years that I became aware of that and why. Kathy is only a few years younger than I am and most if us were raised to believe not seeing color was the goal. So, I did not have the feeling that Kathy meant anything offensive and I think Garcelle did a great job of explaining, not attacking or lecturing.

Yeah, for all her putting a kooky Kathy problematic spin on it by dropping Michael Jackson in there (never change, Kathy!) she didn't seem to be spoiling for a fight or being defensive, just genuinely saying she thought that was correct and is it not? She might have been questioning the trend of filling up your own soda cups at McDonalds because when he was a kid they filled the cup up for you. 

[BusyOctober]

I find it apt that Erika’s staunchest defender is the illiterate Rinna…the woman can’t read any article longer than a Tweet, nor focus much beyond a 2min YouTube clip.  If Rinna could read and comprehend at a Freshman high school level, she would be able to peruse all the actual news articles coming out about Tom and Erika and make the connections that the rest of the world is making as the story unfolds. 

Her blissful and willful ignorance keeps her in the dark and makes her Erika’s perfect lapdog…she’s a Giradi-Keese/Lhasa Lippso mix.

[hoodooznoodooz]

4 hours ago, nexxie said:

All I see in Dorit’s designer name splashed outfits is an idiotic sucker. I feel sorry for those sweet kids being raised by a shallow twit of a mother and a con artist father. No wonder Dorit relates to Erika - shallow twit and con artist rolled into one.

The Christian Dior and Louis Vuitton logo fabrics are stunningly excessive this season. That CD hat was terrible.

[amarante]

People rag on Sutton's fashion but I think it is great. It is obviously expensive but it isn't obviously a particular designer unless you are extremely clued into couture and ultra high end clothing lines. 

She chooses what delights her as opposed to Dorit who looks like a poster board for initialed designer stuff.

I could be wrong but I have yet to see Sutton dressed in anything that has "initials"

[Erh3d]

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

That is actually the one point she pissed me off on this episode. She only learned to be silent and smirked when Crystal defensively said yes, I wasn’t bringing it up to you. She hasn’t listened or learned she just liked that she wasn’t being called out. Kathy took being called out so much better than Sutton, she didn’t shut down the conversation and allowed people to speak about why it’s problematic. As I said her face is frozen, so have no idea if Kathy took anything in but Dorit took over in the white people being problematic assholes from both Sutton and Kathy!

I’m guessing Kathy brought this up for that reason - to look good with her response. That conversation came up out of absolutely nowhere. 

[amarante]

22 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

When she said that I pictured some black woman somewhere looking up and saying, "Who, me? I'm not your mom's best friend. Did she tell you I was?" 

Yeah, for all her putting a kooky Kathy problematic spin on it by dropping Michael Jackson in there (never change, Kathy!) she didn't seem to be spoiling for a fight or being defensive, just genuinely saying she thought that was correct and is it not? She might have been questioning the trend of filling up your own soda cups at McDonalds because when he was a kid they filled the cup up for you. 

I agree as it is part of the dialogue that non-racist people need to be having.

I was also raised in a house where my parents were determined for me not to be racist - e.g. a very New York City ultra liberal environment. I remember when I found out that EENY MEENY was about catching an N-person and not a tiger. I asked my parents if they knew that and they said yes but we taught you tiger.

I am a bit less clueless than Kathy since I have recognized that POC experience the world in a different way. There was an article by a black Newsweek reporter about 20 years ago in which he described how he was followed in one of the Fifth Avenue department stores - his only potential crime was shopping while black since he was dressed in typical business attire - e.g. suit and tie and the only thing that made him a target of suspicion was his race. 

There are microagressions which one has to deal with or be labeled as someone who is angry all of the time and there are the more obnoxious things like being followed in a department store and then there is the horror of having to give your son "the talk" which Garcelle alluded to. 

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by amarante

[Erh3d]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

To be fair Garcelle has actual support from Crystal and not people screaming at her and then implying she is the only one screaming. 

Eboni has Leah. 

1 hour ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

And Kyle, which is I think kind of important to why the conversation - while fraught - did not devolve into something else. Kyle actually did what a good ally is supposed to do. She didn't try to overtake the conversation nor did she try to explain Garcelle's position but she backed Garcelle up in a few key moments that I think prevented either Kathy or Dorit from going down some problematic avenues.  

(To be fair to Kathy, she doesn't seem like she's a yeller in general, but I suspect that if Kyle wasn't there backing Garcelle up, she would have pushed back a bit more).

But I also don't want to make it seem like Kyle was the important one there - Garcelle was.  She has a very calm and methodical way of talking about her experience as a Black woman that is impossible to ignore.  She deserves a lot of credit for how she's handled these discussions this season but I can also imagine that it gets exhausting for her (and for Crystal). 

Garcelles presence made me stop doing my makeup and listen to what she had to say. I learned from her. ♥️

[biakbiak]

21 minutes ago, Erh3d said:

I’m guessing Kathy brought this up for that reason - to look good with her response. That conversation came up out of absolutely nowhere. 

Eh. She started the conversation by saying her good friend Michael Jackson thought it was okay to not see color. There is no one who understands optics in anyway that thinks that’s a good jumping off point. Kathy is a delusional white lady who has never had to question her reference points. I imagine in a lot of her circles that line still flies.

Edited August 12, 2021 by biakbiak

[eleanorofaquitaine]

20 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, for all her putting a kooky Kathy problematic spin on it by dropping Michael Jackson in there (never change, Kathy!) she didn't seem to be spoiling for a fight or being defensive, just genuinely saying she thought that was correct and is it not? She might have been questioning the trend of filling up your own soda cups at McDonalds because when he was a kid they filled the cup up for you. 

I thought Dorit was more defensive than Kathy and more likely to say something really problematic. (Which is basically what happened). I don't know why it's so difficult to grasp the idea that it's okay for kids to understand that there are differences. Yes, Dorit, you should teach your kids that they should treat everyone the same regardless of their skin color. But you should also teach them that unfortunately, there is a history in this country of people with darker skin being treated badly and that said treatment is unfair.  (You don't have to get into the whys and wherefores at that age, but you probably should at least acknowledge that racism and xenophobia exist). 

I imagine that it is easier for Kyle to understand that and not get defensive about it because of her marriages and the fact that her children have feet in a few different cultures. 

[biakbiak]

20 minutes ago, Erh3d said:

Eboni has Leah. 

Again I said actual support. It helps that it is by a person of color and a  white person not so in love with her own voice and point that she often becomes crazy problematic. Crystal’s support is fundamentally different and she has Kyle who though being an asshat in so many ways supports and doesn’t talk over Garcelle or Crystal in group conversations and has Listened and learned .

Edited August 12, 2021 by biakbiak

[MissFeatherbottom]

7 minutes ago, amarante said:

People rag on Sutton's fashion but I think it is great. It is obviously expensive but it isn't obviously a particular designer unless you are extremely clued into couture and ultra high end clothing lines. 

She chooses what delights her as opposed to Dorit who looks like a poster board for initialed designer stuff.

I could be wrong but I have yet to see Sutton dressed in anything that has "initials"

I agree with you that her fashion sense is way better than Dorit, Her body type might not always work with the clothes, but she still looks well put together and not flashy/tacky like Dorit, 

[Chatty Cake]

Funny how Erika left the trip early so broken and distraught, yet managed to post those Tom’s mistress texts within a day or two.

[Natalie68]

16 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

Who the fuck cares if she trust you .... 

The deference given to Erika is gross.  Who the fuck is Erika Girardi?  A paid for aging wanna be.  What power does she hold?  Maybe in cell block whatever she will be a heavy hitter but now?  She is prison bound or at least should be.  She is powerless.  Treat her as such next time she chews someone's head off.  Just laugh in her face.  Whatcha gonna do jailbird?  Add assault to future charges?  

[TattleTeeny]

6 hours ago, chlban said:

While I understand Kathy's comment, attributed to Michael Jackson, about not seeing color,  is now problematic but, in all honesty, it is only in the last couple of years that I became aware of that and why. Kathy is only a few years younger than I am and most if us were raised to believe not seeing color was the goal. So, I did not have the feeling that Kathy meant anything offensive and I think Garcelle did a great job of explaining, not attacking or lecturing.

I tend to agree. I suspect that generally well-meaning people have a hard time understanding that “I don’t see color” is not the same as “I do not (believe that I*) display racial bias.” People of color, I assume, do not wish for white people to “not see color” at all! They (the well-meaning people) know it’s wrong to discriminate, but fail to comprehend that the goal is not to erase color (which in itself could be seen as “making everyone white,” as if white is somehow the coveted default).

*because I am aware that nonracist people can hold racist views without intending to. 

Edited August 12, 2021 by TattleTeeny

[Natalie68]

15 hours ago, Andi27 said:

That LA Times article is a lot more than they are used to absorbing from Radar Online and the Daily Mail.

Big words.  

15 hours ago, eleanorofaquitaine said:

Seriously.  Rinna is pushing this narrative hard. Read the tea leaves, Rinna.

She really is on the wrong side all the time isn't she?  Bless her crusty heart.

[sistermagpie]

36 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Again I said actual support. It helps that it is by a person of color and a  white person not so in love with her own voice and point that she often becomes crazy problematic. Crystal’s support is fundamentally different and she has Kyle who though being an asshat in so many ways supports and doesn’t talk over Garcelle or Crystal in group conversations and has Listened and learned .

Yeah, one thing about Kyle on this issue really different from Leah is she really does seem to try to be a bridge in these conversations, just saying what she's hearing Garcelle saying when someone else seems to take it wrong. Unlike Leah, who sees everything as her cue to take the stage as the White Woman Who Understands.

[Natalie68]

15 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I do not love Crystal’s shiny pink dress, but she looks beautiful in it in those THs.

She and Garcelle are the most beautiful ladies on the show.  

[amarante]

38 minutes ago, MissFeatherbottom said:

I agree with you that her fashion sense is way better than Dorit, Her body type might not always work with the clothes, but she still looks well put together and not flashy/tacky like Dorit, 

She has got a normal body and I like that she dresses in high fashion that should theoretically only be worn by models.

Also people rag on her not dressing for her body type but I think she is always appropriately dressed for her body type. Much better than showing all of those fake tits or squeezing into inappropriately tight latex or sequined jumpsuits with 5" stilettos. 🤣

 

[Natalie68]

11 hours ago, Bridget said:

Am I the only one who was repeatedly shouting "Queen Garcelle" at the TV tonight while grinning like a proper fan girl and clapping when she spoke?

To clarify, I was fan girling more than I usually do each week.

And, yes, she walks on water in my world.

 

 

Scootch over <raises hand>

[Natalie68]

8 hours ago, CrinkleCutCat said:

I’ll bring wine….

I will bring extra lighters.  People are always running off with them 😁.  I DID see smokables mentioned correct???

I am starting to think there is something legit wrong with Rinna.  I can't with her forced manic behavior.  Watch older eps.  It wasn't this bad.  She is losing her fucking mind.  

[Natalie68]

5 hours ago, Pi237 said:

Between this show and New York, I’m shocked at how dumb some white people still are about race. I knew saying ‘I don’t see color.’ And ‘I/etc Have black friends.’ were ignorant things to say decades ago. How did so many of these women miss that message?! 
 

Garcelle is a blunt question-asker, but she shouldn’t feel bad about questioning Erika. It’s their jobs. And Erika should know the drill by now. 

Same.  As a white woman it is disappointing when you become aware of how dumb people you know are re race.  We all need to listen with our mouths shut and do better.

Garcelle is the honesty HWs need.  She asks questions without malice unlike Rinna.  And seriously, Erika brought up the calls from Tom.  Maybe whatever pills she takes makes her flap her lips and forget about it.  

[amarante]

5 hours ago, FancyNancy said:

I never understand this with any of these shows. You say it on camera, but then get mad when it’s brought up or back to the person it was about. Do they think these scenes will be left on the cutting room floor?!?! Surely they know as well as we do, it won’t. So why be upset? 

Well in this particular instance it seems as though Erika was shrieking at production in the bathroom.

I think it's partially that from what I have read, people start to forget there are cameras.

I think that to some extent if something isn't mentioned in order to stir the pot, it might be lost in the editing as not being of particular interest or driving the story line. 

The whole thing about how Tom calls her being an issue is inscrutable. If Erika hadn't meant such a huge deal about it, no one would have thought it odd. No matter how "cold" a husband theoretically is, if the wife disappears one morning after theoretically dropping you off at work with a kiss and I love you, most husbands would attempt to call the wife to find out what was going on. 

Erika has attempted to spin so many lies that she can't keep them straight so inadvertently she is going to mess up. You don't have to remember the truth.

Also - as has been pointed out - Erika was fully aware of the LA Times story dropping the next day and she was looking for any reason to be able to exit because the last thing she would want is to be on camera filming the morning of the story breaking. 

[Cosmocrush]

16 hours ago, Andi27 said:

That LA Times article is a lot more than they are used to absorbing from Radar Online and the Daily Mail.

Yea, it was TOO LONG for them to read, lol.   I know these women aren't well read in general but a newspaper article is too long?  Sutton should have assured them there weren't any big words used, lol. 

[J80134]

Doritos biggest concern is the amount of time and financial strain this will cause Erika. Um, okay. So much for recognizing the true victims.

Why does anyone think they just need to ask erika disdain if she knew about the victim fucking? I guess so she can say no and her supporters can feel vindicated? They have to know that there is no chance in hell that she would say ..."yeah, I knew tom was stealing for years and years, but he told me the cover up was handled, so I smiled, blew the cash and didn't think about again."

Thought Sutton might burst with giddiness over dorito and Lil Kathy being as ignorant about racial inequality as she is. Gar handled it with grace. And no fool spoke up to say all the POC hated them in college (if only they'd invited Ramona to fly in from ny. Lol)

I'm glad that Sutton sees through Erika's bs. I wish she were a bit more down and dirty nasty,  cuz I want to see mizz disdain grilled, flipped, sauced and served. As much as I hate brandi...she is the gas that could really get this fire going.

[Slakkie]

2 hours ago, chlban said:

While I understand Kathy's comment, attributed to Michael Jackson, about not seeing color,  is now problematic but, in all honesty, it is only in the last couple of years that I became aware of that and why. Kathy is only a few years younger than I am and most if us were raised to believe not seeing color was the goal. So, I did not have the feeling that Kathy meant anything offensive and I think Garcelle did a great job of explaining, not attacking or lecturing.

Same generation and the way I equate it not really not "seeing" color but not thinking about color.  I mean of course everyone looks different skin / hair /attributes but I do not look at people and go oh you are XXXX so you must be XXX.  With all the virtual working I have worked with people I have never seen - I have no clue what they look like and you know I don't think it makes any difference to me.

 

So I don't think it is wrong per se.  I think that I may not understand someone's perspective based on their color / ethnicity but at the same time they do not know mine.  So I think it goes both ways but what I appreciated about these ladies vs those in NY (who I stopped watching) is there is a genuine dialogue and genuine conversation and in that people think about other opinions versus just shutting down.

[dmeets]

That was a surprisingly mature discussion about race (although Door-it continues to be the worst). But I suspect the only reason it happened at all was that Kathy was trying to re-ignite tensions between Sutton and Crystal now that the Tomasina joke had to be put to pasture. Thankfully neither took the bait. I'd like to think they're truly moving on, but the real test is going to be at the reunion where it's likely to take up all of Part 1 (I'm sure they'll save the Girardi drama for the last part, assuming they're legally allowed to discuss it by then).

Kyle and Door-it are starting to realize they may be backing the wrong horse. Lisa's clearly going to be ride or die to the end. She's needed Erika (and Door-it) ever since Eileen was let go.

I want to appreciate what Sutton's doing, but she was god-awful the first half of this season, definitely hypocritical about observing others' overreactions, and I don't really believe she'll say this all to Erika's face, not without a promise from the others that they'll have her back. But maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[tvfanatic13]

1 hour ago, amarante said:

I agree as it is part of the dialogue that non-racist people need to be having.

I was also raised in a house where my parents were determined for me not to be racist - e.g. a very New York City ultra liberal environment. I remember when I found out that EENY MEENY was about catching an N-person and not a tiger. I asked my parents if they knew that and they said yes but we taught you tiger.

I am a bit less clueless than Kathy since I have recognized that POC experience the world in a different way. There was an article by a black Newsweek reporter about 20 years ago in which he described how he was followed in one of the Fifth Avenue department stores - his only potential crime was shopping while black since he was dressed in typical business attire - e.g. suit and tie and the only thing that made him a target of suspicion was his race. 

There are microagressions which one has to deal with or be labeled as someone who is angry all of the time and there are the more obnoxious things like being followed in a department store and then there is the horror of having to give your son "the talk" which Garcelle alluded to. 

 

I never heard this (the bolded). Disgusting. 

I need to rewatch the after-LaQuinta part again to digest everyone's position but I think it was only Rinna that was not questioning Erica in the slightest. Dorit and Kyle were not terribly vocal, but I see the flickers there. FU Rinna, always. 

[amarante]

23 minutes ago, tvfanatic13 said:

I never heard this (the bolded). Disgusting. 

 

If you google eeny meenie and racist, there are a lot of articles about this and other childhood rhymes and songs having shockingly racist roots. There was a popular pancake house that used racist tropes until fairly recently and the English had books and dolls about gollywogs. And of course there was Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben were on supermarket shelves until last summer. 

From a vox article which I will censor. Mo and toe rhyme and Mo and tail don’t rhyme- I.e. catch a tiger by the tail in the bowdlerized version I learned

A little over a week ago, NPR had an illuminating and poignant report on the the racist beginnings of the ice cream truck song. The song's melody, it turns out, was popularized in antebellum minstrel shows where the lyrics "parodied a free black man attempting to conform to white high society by dressing in fine clothes and using big words." To make matters worse, that song became the basis for an offensive folk song in 1916 titled, "N-word Love A Watermelon Ha! Ha! Ha!" before turning into the melody that beckons ice cream seekers today.

For Theodore Johnson III, who wrote the article, knowledge of that history ruined ice cream trucks for him. "When the reach of racism robs me of fond memories from my childhood, it feels intensely personal again. Whenever I hear the music now, the antique voice laughing about n-word and watermelon fills my head," Johnson wrote. 

Johnson's piece got us thinking about the songs like the ice cream truck song — a seemingly innocuous folk song, nursery rhyme, or jingle — that we may not have known were racist, and what we should do when we learn about their histories.

"Eenie, Meenie, Miney, Mo" (Early 19th Century)

The words: "Eenie, meenie, minie mo. Catch an n-word by the toe. If he hollers, let him go. Eenie, meenie, minie mo." An alternate version: "Catch a negro by his toe/ If he hollers make him pay/Twenty dollars every day."

The meaning: The meaning of this rhyme is rooted in the slave trade. There's an idea that it comes from slave selection or a description of what white slave owners would do if they caught a runaway slave. It was actually a part of a 2004 lawsuit against Southwest. The black plaintiffs in that case sued the airline for discrimination because a flight attendant had used the rhyme while urging them to take their seats. The jury did not side with the plaintiffs, and though they appealed, the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed the initial ruling.

Edited August 12, 2021 by amarante