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Swimming, Diving, Water Polo - Live from the Aquatics Centre!


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5 minutes ago, Bewitched said:

That was also the era of the suits that are now banned.  

yeah the body suits. that must have been Sydney then. 

COME ON JAPAN!

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Just now, Daisy said:

yeah the body suits. that must have been Sydney then. 

COME ON JAPAN!

I feel like it was Beijing? I also seem to remember talk about the pool itself being fast too, and combination led to what seemed to be a nonstop parade of world records at those Olympics.

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Just now, AshleyN said:

I feel like it was Beijing? I also seem to remember talk about the pool itself being fast too, and combination led to what seemed to be a nonstop parade of world records at those Olympics.

Yeah, the suit era was around 2008-9.

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Just now, AshleyN said:

I feel like it was Beijing? I also seem to remember talk about the pool itself being fast too, and combination led to what seemed to be a nonstop parade of world records at those Olympics.

Yeah. Like i know Athens didn't have a good pool because the swimmers complained. (well everyone complained since Athens wasn't done properly venue wise). so Sydney/Beijing seems about right. 

It could just be these guys have pent up pandemic tension to let loose too ;) But when all the times from one Olympics to another is that drastic - i think the pool is helping too. 

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Just now, Chaser said:

How is one pool faster than another?

"a fast pool is specially designed to use deep water, effective lane lines and wave-absorbing gutters which help swimmers and produce faster times. On the other hand, slow pools are shallower with a construction that creates and reflects waves causing water resistance that slows swimmers down"

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Since I’m just a casual swimming viewer, can someone explain why everyone doesn’t like Michael Andrew? I’m surprised he faded away at the end, and the Chinese swimmer was so freaking fast during his freestyle. 

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1 minute ago, AimingforYoko said:

I feel it's gotta be mental. How can you be that good in the other strokes and that bad in the free?

I  think he doesn't know how to pace himself. He's been taught to sprint everything and in the IM you have to save a little to push at the end.  His dad's training technique is not suited for this event or really anything over 100m (sounds like Phelps agrees with me).

My daughter swam and the breaststroke killed her IM (bad technique), but she knew to keep a little in the tank to sprint the free home.

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1 minute ago, Lady Whistleup said:

They always say the IM's are endurance races. Michael Andrew is only taught how to sprint.

Yeah his training seems to be "get out super fast from the beginning and just keep going fast" when it needs to be about pace as well. Plenty of swimmers can get out ahead and stay that way the whole race but they're still keeping the necessary pace. 

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2 minutes ago, Daisy said:

really nice race. US did well, so did Seebaum and Ruck was 4th (in SF)

I think they should start handing out medals for 4th place. We just might be the leaders then. 😄

 

Go Kylie!

 

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Let's gooo Kyliee! swimswimwim!

Yaaahhh Kylie!! (okay yah it's semi finals, but still). 
I really want her to win a gold medal. that should be a good confidence booster.

Ruck makes it to the final too!

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Masse with the touch! (yes, I know it’s meaningless in a semifinal when both knew they were going to move ahead)

Ruck through! Yay! After the miserable past year or so, she really needed a final appearance here.

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48 minutes ago, twoods said:

Since I’m just a casual swimming viewer, can someone explain why everyone doesn’t like Michael Andrew? I’m surprised he faded away at the end, and the Chinese swimmer was so freaking fast during his freestyle. 

Where to begin?

Of course the whole anti-vaxx thing. Then I remember reading an article where his dad thinks Michael Phelps wasn't trained correctly and that his son is better than Phelps. Plus, I think the family is very insular: he home-schooled and trained by his dad exclusively. He's also said he brest friends are his sister, mom, and dad. Creepy. 

 

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(edited)

Thrilled for Wang Shun, who has spent about a decade being the guy who was almost but not quite there at the end and was finally able to gut out a really big win tonight. He's seriously paid his dues in the sport. 

Edited by selkie
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(edited)

I'd love to say I didn't cheer that Andrew died in the last leg of the 200IM, but...I did.

4 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

How can you be that good in the other strokes and that bad in the free?

I think the hard truth is that he's been coached pretty terribly.  If he had a coach who was not his psycho father, he might learn how to race the 200IM correctly.

4 hours ago, twoods said:

Since I’m just a casual swimming viewer, can someone explain why everyone doesn’t like Michael Andrew?

Well...he's a huge anti-vaxxer and is a very, VERY evangelical Christian who was homeschooled.  Google him if you want; there's plenty to dislike.  I mean, this is just one example of his shittiness.

On the other end of the spectrum, what a FABULOUS 200m breaststroke!!  I was cheering so hard for Schoenmaker and King and Lazor; they all swam incredible races.  The best part, though, was the genuine camaraderie between the three and Corbett after the race.  It's so heartening to see these women celebrate each other's accomplishments so much.  That's what the Olympics should be about.

Also, Wang Shun is very hot.  But that's neither here nor there.

Edited by NUguy514
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The heats for the 4x100 medleys are happening shortly.  The US will be doing a full swap for the women's event.  Canada has two of its finalists (Pickrem, our only semi-decent breaststroker, and Mac Neil, who's had a lot of downtime since winning the gold) and two people filling in (Ruck for Masse, Sanchez for Oleksiak).

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7 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

 

Well...he's a huge anti-vaxxer and is a very, VERY evangelical Christian who was homeschooled.  Google him if you want; there's plenty to dislike. 

 

 

And the thing is, Caeleb Dressel would also describe himself as a strong Christian. And is hugely popular with his peers because it manifests as 'Today one of the goals is to try to be a decent human being. How can I make that happen?'  rather than getting all vocally preachy. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

How did Michael Andrew’s father get credentialed as a team coach?  Does he coach any other swimmers besides his son?

USA Swimming selects the head coaches for international teams about a year in advance. There are also a good number of assistant coaches that are selected based on the athletes they place onto the team, and for some reason known only to USAS, Peter Andrew got picked for an assistant gig, while Ron Aitken of Sandpipers, who put three women onto the team, did not. (Aitken did manage to get credentialed and on the pool deck in Tokyo, I guess USAS offered him a gig counting kickboards or something as part of the official delegation so he could be there for his distance women in the end) 

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11 hours ago, SeanC said:

Gee, Andrew dies in the freestyle, who could have guessed?

That was one of the most bizarre medley swims I've ever seen.  I am still not sure how he lost the lead he had after the breaststroke, to the extent that he couldn't even get a minor medal.  He's obviously really good at two of the strokes and crap at the others, or something.

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7 minutes ago, katisha said:

That was one of the most bizarre medley swims I've ever seen.  I am still not sure how he lost the lead he had after the breaststroke, to the extent that he couldn't even get a minor medal.  He's obviously really good at two of the strokes and crap at the others, or something.

 

His freestyle is fine enough he just qualified for the semis in the 50M free. It's just that the training style he uses is only good enough to get him to the 175 mark in a 200 meter long course race.  There's long been a desire by fans to have him try another coaching program for a time including sending him to Dave Salo, whose 'quality yardage' approach is pretty similar to what Andrew's doing now and with generally better results for swimmers but cult deprogramming is hard even when birth family isn't involved. 

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I wish Ryan Murphy could have gotten the win in one of his races. 

The swimming is amazingly competitive this year!  Lots of countries getting on the podium.

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(edited)
7 hours ago, Mittengirl said:

How did Michael Andrew’s father get credentialed as a team coach?  Does he coach any other swimmers besides his son?

Yes, his father has a background in the sport and has coached others including Michael's sister, Michaela (I kid you not).  He has very unconventional training methods though and hasn't had any real success except with Michael. It's called Ultra-Short- Race-Pace-Training and it is his father's invention.  Essentially, he swims at top speed all the time during practice which involves mostly sprints.  So, he has never trained in a way to help him compete on longer races by saving something for later.  His father claims that he has 'proof' that his methods work, but the only 'proof' is Michael.  There have been lots of studies which have shown that this sort of training is inferior to the more traditional methods.  For that matter, Michael's performance last night was more proof of that.  He cannot compete with swimmers who know how to turn it up and turn it down according to the race circumstances.

https://www.fina.org/news/1909002/michael-andrew-explains-his-unique-training-system-

Michael's family is also very eccentric to say the least.  His parents are deeply religious and he was homeschooled to prevent outside influences from contaminating him with ideas that are contrary to their beliefs such as evolution.  And vaccination. He also has solely been coached by his father and his mother has been his business manager since he turned pro at 14.  His father insisted he turn pro to prevent colleges from recruiting him and, once again, influencing him with their liberal policies and beliefs other than their own.  It's kind of sad, really.

https://heavy.com/sports/olympics/michael-andrew-family/

Edited by Rootbeer
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2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I feel bad for Michael. He seems so dominated by his crazy parents. I didn't want him to medal but the way the announcers seemed downright gleeful at his loss was kind of weird. 

I suspect they've met him.

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27 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I suspect they've met him.

That kinda sums it up.  While I feel sorry for Michael that he was raised in such a vacuum, he comes across as a know-it-all who is so convinced of his own superiority that he will not even consider the possibility that other people's ideas might be valid.  'Often in error, never in doubt' describes him.  

I doubt he's got many close relationships within the swimming world, especially since he and his parents have repeatedly dissed all 'outside influences' as being harmful if not downright evil.

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The thing is, the Andrews have actually had kind of an okay relationship with the rest of the swimming world until the past year or so. His Mom even was coach of a team in the ISL, which is about a month-long series of competitions with good prize money and brings together elite swimmers from around the world. 

The Andrews are not doing ISL this year and the official reason is that 'we're spending the time after the Olympics building Michael's brand in other ways' but back channel gossip suggests that it's because the ISL is very probably going to require a covid vaccination to participate this year. 

Rumor mill also says that the Andrews have become- how can I put this and have it be okay?- political conspiracy theorists and that's a group that can become really tiring when someone who does not share their worldview has to interact with them. 

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6 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Well, unfortunately he's a clean swimmer competing against a bunch of dopers.  That's his opinion, anyway

He’s not wrong. There’s so much doping in swimming. Michael Phelps has said he doesn’t think he ever competed against a field of completely clean athletes. Russians are an easy target at the moment but it’s always been an issue. I just wish more athletes would take a stand against doping and not just speak out when they lose; because that just comes across like someone making accusation simply because they lost. (Ex. people accusing Ian Thorpe of doping) Like would Ryan Murphy had said anything if he won? Probably not. 

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