S01.E02: The Variant

[Morrigan2575]

@Sakura12 - i was wondering if Lady Loki was what you referenced in your spoiler.

[IWantCandy71]

6 hours ago, SnarkShark said:

 

Multiple things can be true at the same time, IMO.  On reflection, I'm not sure of Mobius even thinks of these people he's killing as real.  They're mere copies of what he thinks of as real people. So it's not killing, it's cleanup.  Like vacuuming up dust bunnies. 

But there may be some irony in the situation.  Several theorists on the Internets think the cruel joke underneath it is that the TVA is staffed by people who ARE variants, who don't know they are, because their memories have been wiped. The fact that Mobius just cultishly believes he was created full formed by The Timekeepers, that Casey only knows his desk and the lunchroom, and not what a Fish is, that they're constantly consuming discontinued drinks from the 1990s, while using tech that's a hybrid of the early 1970s and the far future... there's just so much about life at the TVA that makes no damn sense.  But it's not a failure of the writing. There are reasons it doesn't, I bet. 

Heck, even Miss Minutes doesn't make total sense. But more on that in another post. 

The thing I hate about these kinds of stories is that a writer can make up rules and it doesn't have to make any sense. Such as something as simple as the guy before Loki who gets vaporized before he stands before the judge, just because he doesn't have a ticket.

He's just being obnoxious. Loki is much worse, but doesn't get vaporized even when he attempts to escape. I know it's because Mobius sticks up for him. But still. If all rules don't apply to all, they don't have order anyway, so why not just let timelines alone ?

They could be variants, but it's more than just a memory wipe. The Minute Man told Mobius in the first episode that he could speak all languages, too. So there's programming  going on as well.

[tv echo]

In this June 16th TVLine video interview, Tom Hiddleston and Owen Wilson explained what each of their characters is thinking at the end of this second episode, when Loki looks at Mobius and then goes through the Time Door after Lady Loki...

-- Tom: "I think certainly there's conflict... You know, Mobius is someone who, perhaps for the first time in his life, he thinks he might be able to trust - and perhaps trusts him. And he doesn't want to betray that trust. But at the same time, he has to go and see what that's - what's going on. He has to... He can't help himself but follow, uh, because it's too strange and too - you know, provoke so much curiosity within him. So there is a huge conflict there. He thinks, I probably shouldn't do this, maybe there could be repercussions down the line, but I have to see what that's about."

-- Owen: "I think he feels betrayed... I mean, having studied his life and sort of knowing everything, you'd feel a little bit foolish also, because you can't ever really be surprised that the God of Mischief would, um, be up to something. I think there's a little bit of that and sort of, uh, also maybe a, 'well, here we go.'"

-- On what's next for Loki, Tom: "I think I can confidently say that Loki has taken a step down a new path and it's a new adventure, uh, where I think his capacity to think on his feet will be seriously tested. And his desire to understand what is going on around him is at an all-time high."

[GHScorpiosRule]

I could listen to Tom Hiddleston talk and talk and talk and....

AHEM.

Tom is such a joy to watch and Loki in Pompeii had to be the best scene in this episode, I think. Though his tears at learning what happened in Ragnorak got to me.

That's all I have this morning.

Edited June 17, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[silverstream]

12 hours ago, Cerulean said:

Also, how does this fit in with the Satan stained glass?!? Would the little boy point at the window for the physique of that Loki?

 

7 hours ago, arc said:

Lady Loki had a headdress on with small horns in Roxxcart. The horns might have been why the kid pointed at the horned devil in the stained glass.

I figured, even before the Lady Loki reveal, that it was because of the blue tongue from the candy. Plus, this is medieval France - if Lady Loki was wearing trousers (and I don't see why she wouldn't have been, she was in the Roxxcart unless I misremember) he likely wouldn't have even recognised her as a woman, especially since longer hair was common at the time for all genders.

[pezgirl7]

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

As for her being a Loki. She said she was. She said our Loki is her. She just doesn't like her name being Loki. She changed her name to something else.

She didn't exactly admit to it. She said "Please, if anyone is anyone, you’re me.” Which doesn't necessarily mean she's saying they are the same. She could just be pretending to be Loki, or simply just not playing all her cards. As far as the part hidden behind your spoiler cut:

Spoiler

Sylvie/Enchantress isn't Loki in the comics, she was created by Loki, so I'm not sure why you would think she is Loki if she is indeed named Sylvie.

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by pezgirl7

[Sakura12]

47 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

She didn't exactly admit to it. She said "Please, if anyone is anyone, you’re me.” Which doesn't necessarily mean she's saying they are the same. She could just be pretending to be Loki, or simply just not playing all her cards. As far the part hidden behind your spoiler cut:

The TVA says they follow the time aura and hers matches Loki's. 

And why would she pretend to be Loki if she hates him? She seems disgusted by the name. If she's a shapeshifter she can be anyone, why give him the credit? Because it doesn't seem like she just wants them to blame him. It's not about him. She has her own agenda for her. It makes more sense for her to be Loki and just hates the name and changed it.

I always found it dumb to put the sex in front of the female heroes name. She's lady Loki so I can differentiate between them when talking about them, not because it's a comic book name. She shouldn't ever have to go by Lady Loki since to her she would just be Loki. When she tells us the name she goes by I'll call her that. 

For the spoiler

 

I'm going with the MCU is combining the two characters. She is a Loki that goes by Sylvie.

It's just a theory which is the fun part of these shows. I'm not a person that thinks they have to follow the comic exactly. 

[Wynterwolf]

In one of the post ep videos linked, it's suggested that The Variant might be a combination of more than one comics character (which there is precedence for in the MCU, most notably MCU Bucky being Comics Bucky & Comics Arnie Roth). So... 

Spoiler

I can see her being a combination of Sylvie and Lady Loki (who, it's my understanding was created from Loki's soul after he died?). And that would fit with her being able to transfer her soul to control other hosts, and also her not seeing herself as Loki or a Loki variant, but also still having his temporal aura if she is essentially his soul (from after Thanos killed him?) in a new form.

 

[foxfreakinmulder]

17 hours ago, silverstream said:

I'm still suspicious whether the TVA workers are actually created by the Time Keepers - I feel like there's a real possibility they've just been taken from somewhere and then have been brainwashed to believe they've always been with the TVA. As somebody said upthread, the TVA actually has no reason not to reset a variant immediately when they find one - maybe they just turn them into their employees? (The jet ski thing could even be a hint - maybe Mobius was originally a 90s-era jet ski champion or something, though that seems a stretch to me.)

I watched someone's review of this episode and that's what he mentioned too. That would make since with what Casey said about being born behind a desk and not knowing what a fish was and the old tech mixed with the new tech.

Is this TVA place they're at on Earth?

I don't know anything about lady Loki but I hope in the next episode she explains what's going on to Loki that followed her.

Like others have said I too think there will be a Wizard Of Oz behind the curtain reveal of the Time Keepers.

 

[Bruinsfan]

23 hours ago, Llywela said:

No, he does. We saw him use his magic a couple of times - once to dry his clothes and once to call something off a shelf to him during a fight, to be used as a weapon. He's not using it much, though.

 

15 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Why does Loki keep getting his ass kicked? I know he's not a great fighter when up against Hulk, Thor or other Asgardians but, he should be able to easily take out a human (trucker) and Hunter Lady.

Yeah, it didn't appear that either Loki or the variant-possessed people he was fighting had superhuman physical powers at all. Remember that Loki has engaged Thor in fights multiple times (he didn't win, but they didn't end instantly either), was winning his fight with Captain America, and has survived explosions, being zapped through metal bulkheads by energy weapons, slung around by the Hulk, etc. A vacuum cleaner power cord should present no more danger to him than walking through a cobweb would to one of us, and that fight in the Roxxcart store was throwing the participants with force matching a human fight, not one where architecture is incidental collateral damage. Have the people writing the show forgotten that he's a god?

Edited June 17, 2021 by Bruinsfan

[hoopznyo]

20 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

 

Yeah, it didn't appear that either Loki or the variant-possessed people he was fighting had superhuman physical powers at all. Remember that Loki has engaged Thor in fights multiple times (he didn't win, but they didn't end instantly either), was winning his fight with Captain America, and has survived explosions, being zapped through metal bulkheads by energy weapons, slung around by the Hulk, etc. A vacuum cleaner power cord should present no more danger to him than walking through a cobweb would to one of us, and that fight in the Roxxcart store was throwing the participants with force matching a human fight, not one where architecture is incidental collateral damage. Have the people writing the show forgotten that he's a god?

Unfortunately, isn't this sorta the MCU writing way? Take for example, Bucky -- in one scene he's outrunning cars going highway speeds and swinging around a motorcycle in the air with one arm. In another scene, he can't get Black Widow (who as far as I know has no super strength) off him.  Whatever the scene calls for that's what power they have -- or don't have.

[Enigma X]

I think I may be slow, but hasn't Loki disappeared from his timeline? So, will the reset place him back in custody on Earth or will the reset kill him? I guess I am having trouble with him being a variant (since he actually disappeared from his timeline) and not the actual person who caused the variance. That is different.

[cambridgeguy]

52 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Have the people writing the show forgotten that he's a god?

I think it's also continuing the idea of Loki being an all brain, no brawn.  Two of his most iconic moment are being slammed into the ground by the Hulk and being the comic relief in "Get Help" from Ragnarok.  He also got chained up by Valkyrie, so its been a while since we've seen awesome fighter Loki.

[mrspidey]

On 6/16/2021 at 6:25 PM, swanpride said:

My thought was "Climate change is really a bitch, isn't it?"

To be fair, climate change doesn't cause volcanic erruptions or tsunamis. 

[pezgirl7]

2 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

The TVA says they follow the time aura and hers matches Loki's. 

And why would she pretend to be Loki if she hates him? She seems disgusted by the name. If she's a shapeshifter she can be anyone, why give him the credit? Because it doesn't seem like she just wants them to blame him. It's not about him. She has her own agenda for her. It makes more sense for her to be Loki and just hates the name and changed it.

I don't think she's trying to pretend to be him, she's just not going around letting the TVA know that they've got it wrong, that she's not Loki. Maybe she doesn't want anyone to know who she really is, so she's just letting people believe she's a Loki variant. I think I subscribe to what Wynterwolf wrote in the post right after yours. But I like that we don't really know for sure, so the show can keep us guessing!

[Wynterwolf]

39 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I think I may be slow, but hasn't Loki disappeared from his timeline? So, will the reset place him back in custody on Earth or will the reset kill him? I guess I am having trouble with him being a variant (since he actually disappeared from his timeline) and not the actual person who caused the variance. That is different.

They're definitely still squishy on this, and I think there might be more to a reset than what we've so far seen. But the way I'm viewing it, at the point of the timeline diverting to a new path with the potential to create a timeline that would differ enough from the "sacred" timeline to be called an alternate timeline (aka Nexus point), that's when the TVA step in. And in Loki's case, that was him teleporting (not taking the tesseract that had dropped at his feet).

So once he teleported, and the Nexus event happened creating two timelines - there were two Lokis.  The TVA grabbed the Loki that was on the timeline they didn't want continuing, but the other "sacred" timeline still had it's Loki following close enough to parallel to keep pace with the "sacred" timeline, even though he had grabbed the tesseract and tried to leave with it. 

So this is where I am supposing the TVA had another unit stepping in right before the Nexus event happened to make sure that Loki was recaptured, hence protecting the "sacred" timeline, but we didn't see that. 

[paigow]

21 minutes ago, pezgirl7 said:

I don't think she's trying to pretend to be him, she's just not going around letting the TVA know that they've got it wrong, that she's not Loki.

So Roxxcart must be the only place that stocks "Loki Aura" in the economy size of 100 gallons... She takes a bath in it then jumps into a new branch...

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, paigow said:

So Roxxcart must be the only place that stocks "Loki Aura" in the economy size of 100 gallons... She takes a bath in it then jumps into a new branch...

I think based on how they were created, I can see both Lady Loki and Sylvie having Loki's temporal aura, but I can also see where neither of them would consider themselves to be Loki and would be putout by that assumption. But I could also see where they wouldn't feel the need to explain why and would enjoy the TVA being wrong and trying  to use that to their advantage.  

[TrininisaScorp]

I love little moments so much.  Whether it is Loki playfully going after Miss Minutes, Loki's glee at releasing baby chaos in Pompeii, or the Ren Faire, these beats are quirky and fun and fill me with joy.

The part in Latin when Loki is telling the villagers that all hope is lost tickled me b/c as a Tom Hiddleston fan, I know he has a double in Classics.  So, letting him use his random Latin knowledge (and would love to see Ancient Greek too!) felt just for him. And I adored that!

The combo of Loki/Mobius is a real highlight.  I love Hiddleston and Wilsen together...that chemistry is so good.  The salad scene of explaining the gap in variance security was delightful.  

My Loki learning from this episode is how inherently exhausting it is to be him and be around him.  I think in The Avenger or Thor movies he said he isn't a creature of satisfaction and that felt so deeply on display tonight.  Also, people can easily be exasperated and annoyed with him b/c he is so much all the time.  It's loveable, but annoying. 

My unsubstantiated, unresearched head cannon theory is this is the wizard of Oz...there are no actual timekeepers. It's all a central myth to keep everyone in line.  Renslayer is in on it somehow.   

I enjoyed the Roxxcart scary bigbox.  As a Floridian, the climate change disasters are SO VERY REAL. Hurricane season has just begun, and it's a thing (but like a real Floridian, I only worry about Cat 3+).  So, the dude going to the store during a "hurricane sale" felt SO on brand. LOL

I'm an organizational psychologist by trade, so the Office Space-red tape-TIP reports feel also tickles me. The dichotomy is where the humor lives...they are inside a pocket of existence where Infinity Stones are paper weights, yet they are pushing paper and reading jet ski magazines without ever having seen or used one.

Spoiler

I don't think "Lady Loki" is a Loki variant.  I think she is someone else...Loki keeps dropping these things about enchantments and how it feels different.  I like the idea of it being Enchantress. 

(Shallow) Hiddleston looks so damn GOOD all the time.  How does someone make that terrible TVA outfit look THAT good?!  Dayum. (/Shallow)

[Llywela]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but Roxxcart is just another future incarnation of that perennial MCU warhorse, the Roxxon Corporation, right?

[dwmarch]

48 minutes ago, Llywela said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but Roxxcart is just another future incarnation of that perennial MCU warhorse, the Roxxon Corporation, right?

The show hasn't explicitly spelled it out (and I haven't seen any Roxxon-branded retail locations other than gas stations in other MCU or Marvel TV shows and I have seen them all) but it seems safe to assume they are one and the same, yes.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

6 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

I watched someone's review of this episode and that's what he mentioned too. That would make since with what Casey said about being born behind a desk and not knowing what a fish was and the old tech mixed with the new tech.

On 6/16/2021 at 5:44 PM, silverstream said:

I'm still suspicious whether the TVA workers are actually created by the Time Keepers - I feel like there's a real possibility they've just been taken from somewhere and then have been brainwashed to believe they've always been with the TVA. As somebody said upthread, the TVA actually has no reason not to reset a variant immediately when they find one - maybe they just turn them into their employees? (The jet ski thing could even be a hint - maybe Mobius was originally a 90s-era jet ski champion or something, though that seems a stretch to me.)

23 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm also wondering if the TVA workers are real people that they've taken out of time and erased their memories or if they are just created beings. Mobius seems to really like the 90's, maybe he is from that time. Taking people is probably easier than creating people. 

17 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

What if they are clones of long dead people, which would explain the different eras some appear to be from ?

 

If it were up to me, I would grab babies from timelines that were going to be reset anyway, and raise them at the TVA.  They wouldn't have memories of their brief lives on Earth (but, short of a tragic event, there would be an exact double of them [the original] on the Sacred Timeline) and would readily believe that they had been created by the Guardians of Time, except for the few higher-ups who actually did the snatching.

Of course, there would have to be nurseries and carers/nannies and schools and teachers, but Mobius uttered one or 2 TVA slogans that Renslayer echoed, so I have no trouble believing that they were indoctrinated in their youth in a manner reminiscent of what the Communist Party did in China.

That wouldn't explain how the TVA would prevent the workers from procreating (unless that was taken care of, too), or if they can form emotional attachments.  (It sort of seemed like there could be something between Mobius and Renslayer, but he might also be just a teasing kind of guy.)

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

I guess we shouldn't have been worried about the dearth of leading female characters in the first episode.

 

Also, for those who are convinced that Mobius and the others are "killing" the people on the branching timelines, is their fate significantly different from (spoiler tagged for those who somehow haven't watched Wandavision):

Spoiler

the ultimate fate of Vision and the twins?  None of these characters were "supposed" to exist, and yet, they did.  (I recognize that Wanda didn't want to undo her family, though. )

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by ItCouldBeWorse

[SnarkShark]

9 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

Is this TVA place they're at on Earth?

The outside appearance suggests not, but the overwhelming preference for 1990s beverages suggests maybe.  The 1970s shell the more futuristic tech is wrapped around ALSO suggests Earth, as does the stupid cartoon (seemingly out of the 1960s in animation type) .  So er... maybe.  But with feet planted in multiple 20th century decades all at once. 

5 hours ago, Llywela said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but Roxxcart is just another future incarnation of that perennial MCU warhorse, the Roxxon Corporation, right?

Certainly. Zero doubt. 

[formerlyfreedom]

Please note: spoiler discussion, including bringing things here from other sites, or back and forth with spoiler tags should be taking place in the spoiler topic. This is for the episode, and while there may be some light spoilers here, if you want an ongoing discussion with spoilers, this is NOT the place.

Posts may be removed without notice and going forward, other sanctions may occur for repeated events. Thank you.

[DaWezl]

23 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

That reminds me. I thought for a second that the woman at the Ren Faire who told the Minutemen they weren't dressed right was Kathryn Hahn. I looked at IMDB just to be sure, and it's actually someone named Kate Berlant, but I was thinking, What the hell is Agatha doing here?  Oops.

I had the same thought! 😳

[Capricasix]

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but Roxxcart is just another future incarnation of that perennial MCU warhorse, the Roxxon Corporation, right?

I was just about to mention that.

[ChocButterfly]

On 6/16/2021 at 9:49 PM, MissL said:

Exactly.  I’m also very confused. If there is a sacred timeline and there are NOT multiverses then how do you end up with an ADULT LADY Loki? A blue Loki or Loki with different hair color who basically looks like our Loki I get but a full on different Loki if there isn’t an alternate universe makes no sense to me. I’m going to have to watch a YouTube video that explains this or something aren’t I?

This! I don't get the "different " Lokis variants. If there is a Sacred Timeline and there are no multiverses, how on earth do you get a female Loki, a Hulk Loki, etc. That would imply that there are indeed many different timelines, because if there was only one Timeline, you'd have same type of Lokis variants. They would be different people, but would have the same beginning in life, so no, you cannot have different genders of Loki.

 

[IWantCandy71]

6 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

 

If it were up to me, I would grab babies from timelines that were going to be reset anyway, and raise them at the TVA.  They wouldn't have memories of their brief lives on Earth (but, short of a tragic event, there would be an exact double of them [the original] on the Sacred Timeline) and would readily believe that they had been created by the Guardians of Time, except for the few higher-ups who actually did the snatching.

Of course, there would have to be nurseries and carers/nannies and schools and teachers, but Mobius uttered one or 2 TVA slogans that Renslayer echoed, so I have no trouble believing that they were indoctrinated in their youth in a manner reminiscent of what the Communist Party did in China.

That wouldn't explain how the TVA would prevent the workers from procreating (unless that was taken care of, too), or if they can form emotional attachments.  (It sort of seemed like there could be something between Mobius and Renslayer, but he might also be just a teasing kind of guy.)

 

Yes, it could be both cloning dead people and raising children there from birth or at a young age. There are things that don't make sense though, even if some of them were raised there. Casey doesn't know what a fish is ? Unless they are so far in the future that all fish are extinct for some reason, that's not just dumb, it's unbelievable.

As far as where they are at, my vote is, if the TVA is not an illusion, they are on a planet besides earth.

[arc]

1 hour ago, ChocButterfly said:

They would be different people, but would have the same beginning in life, so no, you cannot have different genders of Loki.

Loki can shapeshift, right? It's not just all illusions. Perhaps the variants adopt different shapes to go with their different personalities.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

Casey doesn't know what a fish is ? Unless they are so far in the future that all fish are extinct for some reason, that's not just dumb, it's unbelievable.

Maybe the TVA doesn't have animals, or "frivolous" books containing pictures of animals for lower-level employees like Casey (I assume Mobius knows what a fish is.)  And the food is prepared for the employees in the cafeteria, so no food shopping, or perhaps the TVA is vegan, so again, no fish.

[Ottis]

17 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

Have the people writing the show forgotten that he's a god?

Maybe, and also, this ep felt like the people writing the show forgot there was a plot. I thought it was slow and sort of boring. All the cutesy banter between Mobius and Loki, on and on, so that when we finally see female Loki at the end it was sort of like, "Oh yeah - there *is* a point to this show!" They need to watch that balance.

[Llywela]

33 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Maybe, and also, this ep felt like the people writing the show forgot there was a plot. I thought it was slow and sort of boring. All the cutesy banter between Mobius and Loki, on and on, so that when we finally see female Loki at the end it was sort of like, "Oh yeah - there *is* a point to this show!" They need to watch that balance.

I'm not sure what you thought you were watching, but there was plenty of forward plot movement in this episode

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, IWantCandy71 said:

As far as where they are at, my vote is, if the TVA is not an illusion, they are on a planet besides earth.

There's a chance that the TVA exists in a pocket universe all its own, so maybe it isn't just 'where are they', but 'when are they'. Think about it. They've got the ability to open a door to literally any place and any time in history, even if the event hasn't yet happened in 'our' timeline. Pompeii before the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. Vietnam prior to the fall of Saigon. Ahead of the Chernobyl disaster. On and on and on, since the hurricane Loki and Mobius dropped in on happens in something like 2050. Mobius tells Loki in the first episode that time moves differently in the TVA, so for all we know he's also over a thousand years old, he just ages very slowly because the organization he works for exists in a place outside of time.

Hell, Loki's personal status isn't entirely clear just now. He isn't technically alive because Thanos killed him, but he's walking and talking because there's another version of him running around messing things up, as Lokis are wont to do. The Variant told him 'it's not about you', and yet it must be a little bit since she held the door open for him long enough for him to join her. Maybe she's just curious, since they're kinda-sorta the same person?

[tv echo]

FYI, a recap ("Episode 2 Event Report") of this episode has been posted at Marvel.com...
https://www.marvel.com/articles/tv-shows/loki-episode-2-event-report-recap

Quote

Miss Minutes quizzes Loki on the facets of what the Time Variance Authority (TVA) does as part of his training. For example, if a Nexus Event branches pass a red line, the TVA would no longer be able to reset the Nexus Event, which would lead to the destruction of the timeline, and the collapse of reality as we know it. In trying to determine if Miss Minutes is alive or a recording (she’s sort of both, FYI), Loki uses Mobius’ jet ski magazine to swat at her, much to her disapproval. 
*  *  *
After Loki inquires about some simple questions, Mobius wonders if Loki has even been paying attention to any of the TVA training videos. If he had been watching them, he’d know the Hunters and Minutemen do not travel back to moments before the Variant first arrives, because Nexus Events destabilize the time flow. With the branch still changing and growing, they can only show up in real time. A Minutemen quizzes Loki on the tech the Variant has been stealing – reset charges, which prunes the affected radius of a branched timeline, allowing time to heal all its wounds (Read: TVA propaganda for “disintegrate everything in its vicinity.”)

The unit come across the area of their fallen colleagues concerned that the Variant has escalated circumstances as it appears Hunter C-20 has been taken as a hostage. Loki admonishes all of the TVA for underestimating a Loki and not seeing the scheme at hand. He likens it to an Asgardian saying: “Where there are wolves’ ears, wolves’ teeth are near.” He boldly claims that they are not aware of their surroundings and they’ll easily be exploited likening the TVA to the gods of Asgard who are all drunk with power and blinded to the truth — “Those you underestimate will devour you.” Loki tells them now that he understands the Variant, and now motivated by his newfound purpose as a servant of the Sacred Timeline, he can deliver them the Variant if they can provide him with assurances, i.e. not be completely disintegrated the moment the job has been completed and to gain an audience with the Time Keepers.
*  *  *
Loki tells Mobius that the Variant is hiding from the TVA in apocalypses. Reflecting on what he has learned from his training, he states that Nexus Events happen when people do something they’re not supposed to leading to a cascade of other events, AKA “chaotic alterations of a predetermined outcome.” Loki then theorizes, for example, Ragnarok causes its complete destruction, so should he arrive in Asgard before that happens, he could “push the Hulk off the Rainbow Bridge” or “set fire to the palace,” and none of that would matter because it wouldn’t go against the dictations of the timeline because Ragnarok and Surtur will destroy them no matter what he does — everything and everyone is destined for imminent destruction — and as a result, the timeline will not branch as it will get destroyed anyway so the Variant can be hiding there and not produce a Nexus Event.
*  *  *
Loki questions if everything is written — past, present, future — does free will not exist? With that in mind, then he, Mobius and the TVA are the only ones who are actually free. However, how does this all end? Mobius explains that while they protect what came before, the Time Keepers are untangling the epilogue from its infinite branches, and when it’s finished without any more Nexus Events, only order, they will all meet in peace at the end of time. Loki thinks all of that sounds boring without any chaos. Continuing, he corrects Mobius’ earlier insult of calling him a “scared, little boy,” by stating that Mobius is wrong as he knows something others do not — “No one bad is truly ever bad, and no one good is ever truly good.”

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by tv echo

[IWantCandy71]

On 6/18/2021 at 3:04 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Maybe the TVA doesn't have animals, or "frivolous" books containing pictures of animals for lower-level employees like Casey (I assume Mobius knows what a fish is.)  And the food is prepared for the employees in the cafeteria, so no food shopping, or perhaps the TVA is vegan, so again, no fish.

I just see a small thing like that as evidence that there is something more sinister going on.

What benevolent society wouldn't want it's people to have knowledge ?

Because knowledge is power.

I think it's simple, lazy writing to have the TVA be this big bad, but I guess every Marvel story has to have one. It makes a second series kind of difficult though, unless it's Loki in a whole new environment.

On 6/18/2021 at 5:02 AM, Cobalt Stargazer said:

There's a chance that the TVA exists in a pocket universe all its own, so maybe it isn't just 'where are they', but 'when are they'. Think about it. They've got the ability to open a door to literally any place and any time in history, even if the event hasn't yet happened in 'our' timeline. Pompeii before the eruption of Mount Vesuvius. Vietnam prior to the fall of Saigon. Ahead of the Chernobyl disaster. On and on and on, since the hurricane Loki and Mobius dropped in on happens in something like 2050. Mobius tells Loki in the first episode that time moves differently in the TVA, so for all we know he's also over a thousand years old, he just ages very slowly because the organization he works for exists in a place outside of time.

Hell, Loki's personal status isn't entirely clear just now. He isn't technically alive because Thanos killed him, but he's walking and talking because there's another version of him running around messing things up, as Lokis are wont to do. The Variant told him 'it's not about you', and yet it must be a little bit since she held the door open for him long enough for him to join her. Maybe she's just curious, since they're kinda-sorta the same person?

True. I already kind of figured it's possible Mobius is as old as Loki or even older.

I was just thinking about the moment where Loki and Mobius are standing in front of glass and Mobius points and says something about Loki being the King of space.

You can see what looks like a galaxy. Of course, what they see could be fake.

But the way Mobius says "Earth", he says it in sort of a foreign way. So if they are any physical place ( and you are right, they are probably not), it's not there.

Strange how most if not all of them have American accents, though. 

[angora]

As much as I enjoy the intrigue and all the time shenanigans, I'm living for the character stuff, which has really been my go-to for all the Disney+ shows so far. Who's the Variant? How will the TVA stop her assault on the sacred timeline? Are the Time Keepers just "the man behind the curtain"? All that remains to be seen, but as long as Loki is freeing baby goats, needlessly ruining Mobius's lunch for the sake of an object lesson, and getting shook over Ragnarok, I'm here for it.

Man, this Loki is so much fun. I like that his development after seeing the whole of his original timeline in the last episode isn't a straight shot. This is no longer just the Loki from The Avengers, but he's not all the way to the Loki from Ragnarok/Infinity War either. He's flirting with the notion of being a better person and sometimes he is, in both the actions he takes and how he relates to people. I like how genuinely invested he got when he hit upon his apocalypse theory, and there was something nice about the way he interrogated Mobius about never having been on a jet ski, prodding at Mobius's sense of contentment at being an unvarying cog of the sacred timeline who doesn't live for himself. But at the same time, he still falls very quickly into old habits, trying to use a situation to his advantage and messing with TVA plans for the hell of it. I loved what a little shit he was being with Hunter B-15 at Roxxcart, first when he dried his clothes with magic and again when he was trying to chat while they searched for the Variant. Much like the branch timelines the TVA enters, this is a Loki whose motivations, allegiances, and morals are very much in flux. Everything is shifting from moment to moment, and any change can have a big impact.

I liked the confirmation that the TVA is constantly dealing with Loki Variants. It makes their utter indifference to his "I'm a god, bow before me" routine last week even more fun in retrospect. Yes, for all their mundanity, they're so immensely powerful that they keep loose Infinity Stones in their junk drawer, so not much of anybody impresses them, but with Loki there's an extra layer of, "Sheesh, this asshole again?" I wonder what made Mobius decide that this Loki was worth trying to deputize. I suppose it's possible that he's done this before with multiple Lokis, but that's not the vibe I get from other characters like Renslayer and Hunter B-15. Is it just the fact that he popped up while they were also chasing this extremely dangerous Variant, or is there something else?

Side note: when Mobius was running through Loki's powers with the Minutemen, I loved how pedantic Loki got about the difference between illusion projection and duplicate casting. Tom Hiddleston is just having a ball here.

[Wynterwolf]

20 minutes ago, angora said:

but as long as Loki is freeing baby goats, needlessly ruining Mobius's lunch for the sake of an object lesson, and getting shook over Ragnarok, I'm here for it.

So much yes to your entire post, but especially the above part (though I do admit, I appreciate very much the fact that they have given me a plausible  'canon' reason to question the validity of everything that happened in EG).  Tom is a joy to watch, full stop, and I would be enjoying the hell out of this even if I wasn't' also engaged in the 'mystery'. 

[johntfs]

42 minutes ago, angora said:

I wonder what made Mobius decide that this Loki was worth trying to deputize. I suppose it's possible that he's done this before with multiple Lokis, but that's not the vibe I get from other characters like Renslayer and Hunter B-15. Is it just the fact that he popped up while they were also chasing this extremely dangerous Variant, or is there something else?

I think the fact that a Loki (and a kind of evil, attack NYC Loki) popped up while they were trying to deal with the Variant who was killing their Minutemen and swiping their reset charges was the main thing for Mobius.  Variants of any kind seem to be rare (recall the empty queue area in Time Court) even if "Lokis" are a pretty common Variant.  Presumably the killing/theft has been happening for a while or at least a lot given the number of reset charges that Lady Loki deployed at the end of the episode.  So, when a Loki popped up, Mobius decided to try something new.

[arc]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

while they were trying to deal with the Variant who was killing their Minutemen

"while" doesn't make a whole lot of sense for an agency that travels throughout time at will, fighting a variant who's killing their people in medieval France and 2050 America and a current-to-us Ren Faire.

[Bruinsfan]

Wherever they are, there does seem to be some sort of flow of time/reference point so that someone bombing the timeline into multiple divergences is happening "now" as a surprise rather than always having happened.

[Wynterwolf]

44 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

Wherever they are, there does seem to be some sort of flow of time/reference point so that someone bombing the timeline into multiple divergences is happening "now" as a surprise rather than always having happened.

Right, like the TVA are in a self contained bubble with its own flow of time, while every moment of time on the sacred timeline is continuously happening at the same time, so every moment is literally always happening to them (at least up to the point the Timekeepers have untangled it.) and their job is to spot anomalies as they happen, when/wherever they happen and ‘fix’ them.
 

[xaxat]

The weirdest thing about the TVA? They use the US federal legal code.

Was that a photoshopped Chris Hemsworth in the Jetski ad?

Edited June 19, 2021 by xaxat

[Kel Varnsen]

On 6/16/2021 at 9:49 PM, MissL said:

Exactly.  I’m also very confused. If there is a sacred timeline and there are NOT multiverses then how do you end up with an ADULT LADY Loki? A blue Loki or Loki with different hair color who basically looks like our Loki I get but a full on different Loki if there isn’t an alternate universe makes no sense to me. I’m going to have to watch a YouTube video that explains this or something aren’t I?

I was wondering about this. If the lady Loki was born a female then that would be a nexus point right there. The other options are that Loki is over a 1000 years old and at some point he decides he wants to present himself as a woman and changes his appearance the same way he changed to Cap, and that is the nexus point. Or this is an entirely different female characters who decided to call herself Loki.

On 6/17/2021 at 12:28 PM, hoopznyo said:

Unfortunately, isn't this sorta the MCU writing way? Take for example, Bucky -- in one scene he's outrunning cars going highway speeds and swinging around a motorcycle in the air with one arm. In another scene, he can't get Black Widow (who as far as I know has no super strength) off him.  Whatever the scene calls for that's what power they have -- or don't have.

Asgardian powers have always been all over the place. I mean Frigga died from simply being stabbed. Thor survived being out in space in IW but none of the other Asgardians did.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Kel Varnsen

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, arc said:

"while" doesn't make a whole lot of sense for an agency that travels throughout time at will, fighting a variant who's killing their people in medieval France and 2050 America and a current-to-us Ren Faire.

What word works better?  The Loki variant killing their Minutemen and grabbing reset bombs is an ongoing situation for the TVA.

[arc]

3 hours ago, johntfs said:

What word works better?  The Loki variant killing their Minutemen and grabbing reset bombs is an ongoing situation for the TVA.

The word is fine, it's the whole situation as depicted here doesn't really make a lot of sense. The TVA seems to sit outside of time, monitoring nexus events whenever they occur up and down the timeline. I did like the explanation at the ren faire that variants muck up the timestream so Minutemen can't just drop in at or before the right moment, but back home at the TVA they probably don't have a linear timeline. What would that even mean, after all? But on a small scale they do, since inside the TVA Loki and Mobius first didn't have the apocalypses insight, and then they did.

But on a larger scale, what does it mean from the TVA's viewpoint that Lady Loki has been ambushing Minutemen and stealing reset charges? How is the TVA perceiving that as a sequence of events in a time-like sequential order?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

5 hours ago, arc said:

But on a larger scale, what does it mean from the TVA's viewpoint that Lady Loki has been ambushing Minutemen and stealing reset charges? How is the TVA perceiving that as a sequence of events in a time-like sequential order?

Speculation: Lady Loki is the first variant to try this, so they weren't able to predict that it would become an issue. Even if variants of Loki in general have been sighted and dealt with, she's the first to have some sort of plan in place, and that's why she's been successful. Time itself may have no real meaning for them, especially if they actually do exist in an alternate dimension where a hundred years is the blink of an eye, but larger events usually have some precursors. Wars. Weather-related catastrophes. Nuclear detonations. But they didn't see Lady Loki coming until she was actually here and doing what she's doing. Now they'll likely be too busy trying to seal off the carpet-bombing of the timeline to go after her, so if she's planning something even bigger, they should watch out. Because for whatever reason, the original recipe Loki has followed after her.

[silverstream]

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Now they'll likely be too busy trying to seal off the carpet-bombing of the timeline to go after her, so if she's planning something even bigger, they should watch out. Because for whatever reason, the original recipe Loki has followed after her.

...to be fair, if I were in the hands of an agency that vaporized people at the slightest provocation, I'd be booking it out of there the first chance I got too 😆

Edited June 19, 2021 by silverstream

[johntfs]

8 hours ago, arc said:

The word is fine, it's the whole situation as depicted here doesn't really make a lot of sense. The TVA seems to sit outside of time, monitoring nexus events whenever they occur up and down the timeline. I did like the explanation at the ren faire that variants muck up the timestream so Minutemen can't just drop in at or before the right moment, but back home at the TVA they probably don't have a linear timeline. What would that even mean, after all? But on a small scale they do, since inside the TVA Loki and Mobius first didn't have the apocalypses insight, and then they did.

But on a larger scale, what does it mean from the TVA's viewpoint that Lady Loki has been ambushing Minutemen and stealing reset charges? How is the TVA perceiving that as a sequence of events in a time-like sequential order?

It seems like it.  The TVA folks seem to be basically human.  So, in the TVA they get up, have their shit/shower/shave, eat breakfast, go to work, take a break for lunch, etc.  Those occur in a sequential order in days/weeks/months/years of some sort within the TVA.  If LL ambushed Minutemen in 10,000 AD, 40 BC, 1853 AD, 50 Million BC etc. in that order the folks in the TVA perceive in that order because LL effectively functions on the same type of "timeline" as them.  10,000 AD looked fine until she created a Variant Timeline to pull the Minutemen into an ambush, like that.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

1 hour ago, silverstream said:

...to be fair, if I were in the hands of an agency that vaporized people at the slightest provocation, I'd be booking it out of their the first chance I got too 😆

Further speculation: The Time Court thing was a bit of showmanship to get Loki to initially fall in line. The only other....litigant, I guess, there was being very loud and talking about who his father was and how he was going to get everyone fired. A pain in the ass, like Loki himself, as he acknowledges in this episode when he was talking to Randy. "Now I understand why Thor found this so annoying." There are glimpses here and there of a better Loki, the individual he becomes before Thanos put his hand around his throat, but he's very much not there yet. Notice how quick he is to find his ticket and start waving it around after the only other guy there gets zapped. Kind of like how he must have lain in the hole Hulk left him in contemplating the error of his ways.

Mobius gives him two options in this episode; that he was either still partly the scared kid out in the cold, or that he (Mobius)  just wanted to catch the variant and would tell him anything he needed to in order to make that happen. He also says he knows that Loki can't particularly be trusted, and it doesn't make a difference IMO if the TVA has been directing him from the shadows all along. At every point Loki has been around, there's always someone more powerful in the immediate vicinity. The Avengers. Thanos. The Grandmaster. Even Odin, since Loki was always pretty careful to never go up against his father directly, just Thor. Now it's the TVA and to whatever extent The Variant. You're not wrong in saying that Loki is sort of justified in wanting to run from them, but OTOH I think Mobius understood that he needed to keep him in line through worry for his own safety. "I don't need your sympathy." "Good. Because I'm running out of it."