S01.E02: The Variant

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Mobius puts Loki to work, but not everyone at the TVA is thrilled about the God of Mischief’s presence.

Dropping Wednesday, June 16, 2021.

[AnimeMania]

I wonder how the TVA can have a transcript of everything you have ever said. That might give the TVA some method to track the Variant (Lokette - female Loki) and definitely would have incriminated Loki, that is if you can believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Sending the "pruning" bombs to different times, locations and variations of the timeline would cause a great deal of chaos, but sending the "pruning" bombs to the same time, very close to the beginning of time, to various locations and various variations of the timeline would cause maximum chaos, because there would be so few parallel branches and would cause a ton of extreme variations. The effects would create great ripples that would only amplify if left unchecked, it would be an all agents hands on deck type of emergency.

The TVA's idea of an extinction level event is much, much smaller than my definition. I wouldn't consider a city being destroyed, an extinction level event.

Asgard was a much smaller world than I thought, hardly any people, they didn't seem to think any of the other sentient creatures were worth being counted. 

[johntfs]

24 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

I wonder how the TVA can have a transcript of everything you have ever said. That might give the TVA some method to track the Variant (Lokette - female Loki) and definitely would have incriminated Loki, that is if you can believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Sending the "pruning" bombs to different times, locations and variations of the timeline would cause a great deal of chaos, but sending the "pruning" bombs to the same time, very close to the beginning of time, to various locations and various variations of the timeline would cause maximum chaos, because there would be so few parallel branches and would cause a ton of extreme variations. The effects would create great ripples that would only amplify if left unchecked, it would be an all agents hands on deck type of emergency.

The TVA's idea of an extinction level event is much, much smaller than my definition. I wouldn't consider a city being destroyed, an extinction level event.

Asgard was a much smaller world than I thought, hardly any people, they didn't seem to think any of the other sentient creatures were worth being counted. 

The TVA had a transcript of everything the original Loki said up to the point that he "varied."  The other stuff variant Loki said was only recorded because he was in the room with the recorder.

I would point out that if your ass was in Pompeii in 79 AD you'd pretty much go extinct.  Basically Loki's idea took a page from Doctor Who's Jack Harkness in terms of "the perfect self-cleaning con."

Well when they showed Asgard from a distance in Thor: Ragnorak it didn't really look that huge (compared to, say, a world).  Ultimately it seemed to be one largish city and the surrounding countryside.  Also original Loki did bring a big-ass spaceship to evacuate quite a few people.

[arc]

It strikes me that MCU Asgard -- if it follows Norse mythology -- is almost uniquely interesting to the TVA as (I vaguely understand) it has a cyclical structure. Certainly in the MU (comics) lore, Asgard's Ragnarok isn't so much an ending as it is an ending of a cycle, after which Asgard is recreated.

My baseless speculation is that Ravonna is herself a Time Keeper. It would save on the costuming/VFX budget, it would explain why Mobius has never met a Time Keeper, and just overall it seems rather over the top that so much of TVA architecture incorporates giant Time Keeper statues. But all that would fit the trope of the final boss hiding in plain sight.

Maybe it's because I know Michael Waldron worked on Rick and Morty, but boy the TVA gives me strong, strong Council of Ricks vibes.

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

The TVA's idea of an extinction level event is much, much smaller than my definition. I wouldn't consider a city being destroyed, an extinction level event.

TBF, Loki and the TVA call them "apocalyptic" events, not extinction level. It's the end of the world to all the people caught up in the disaster.

I was expecting Tom Hiddleston to play opposite himself when the hooded one finally met our Loki, so I was not expecting a female Loki.

Owen Wilson and Tom Hiddleston are absolutely killing it in every scene.

[Spartan Girl]

Lady Loki, I presume!

Even she is wise to Loki’s routine, as is Mobius. I thought his moment of clarity last week was a breakthrough but of course on his first mission he tries to pull a con.

LOL him spooking the Pompeii people was pretty funny.

I don’t know about you guys, but listing all those “future” disasters made me nervous, especially since we are still getting through a pandemic.

”I would never treat me like this!” 🤣

Now is he following her for his own agenda or does he want to help the TVA? 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Spartan Girl

[Cobalt Stargazer]

26 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

”I would never treat me like this!” 🤣

"I miss Randy."

I don't think we've seen Loki jump from one person to another before, possess them and then drop the host body for another person. When he whammied Selvig and Hawkeye in The Avengers, they were still his minions, but he wasn't using them as Ubers. I felt bad for the hunter that the Variant dragged into the portal at the Ren Faire, since by the time we see her again she'd clearly been messed with.

They also did a really good job of having the other actors pretending to be Loki, even the dayplayer types like Randy and the heavyset trucker he was fighting with. Trying to fight with, anyway.

1 hour ago, arc said:

It strikes me that MCU Asgard -- if it follows Norse mythology -- is almost uniquely interesting to the TVA as (I vaguely understand) it has a cyclical structure. Certainly in the MU (comics) lore, Asgard's Ragnarok isn't so much an ending as it is an ending of a cycle, after which Asgard is recreated.

It's cyclical in the mythology as well, since after Surtr destroys the world through fire there's a time of dormancy, and then two humans who were kept safe before the apocalypse wake up and begin all over again.

So. Is the variant version of Loki also a frost giant(ess)? She's obviously got his ability to travel outside of reality, even if its only through the technology stolen from the TVA, but how far does her original timeline deviate from his otherwise? For lack of a better word for it, she seems a lot more chill, none of that pontificating that our version is so prone to. I kind of think she meant for him to follow her, since the wave she tossed in his direction was less "so long, sucker" and more "come on if you're coming, I'm leaving now." I feel bad for Mobius too, because there'd be no reason for him not to think Loki has turned. Renslayer's gonna be pissed, if she's not already.

[AimingforYoko]

So our Loki wants to rule (of course), but Lady Loki is not interested in that. What is she interested in? Chaos?

[thuganomics85]

Props to everyone last week who had predicted The Variant was going to be a female version of Loki (maybe Lady Loki, herself?) instead of just another variation of this Loki.  Not familiar with the actress, but I have enough faith in Marvel's casting department to suspect that she will be more than up to the task (after-all, both Tom Hiddelston and Chris Hemsworth were relative newcomers when they got cast and that certainly seemed to work out!)

As much as I'm enjoying the main arc, Loki in Pompeii really just wants me to watch an entire episode of him just screwing around in the timeline and causing chaos, while Mobius tries not to rip out his hair during all of the antics.

Continue to love all of the bureaucratic crap involved with the TVA, including an oversized library, training videos (with Miss Minutes!), and not pissing off the boss.  I would be down with an Office-style spinoff of that!

Curious to know more about Ravonna herself, since it seems like she is the one in charge (outside of the Timekeepers themselves.)

Noticed that the actress playing the Hunter who was kidnapped was listed as a regular, so I wonder what is in store for her going forward.

Loki and Mobius together continue to be the best.  Especially loved the whole "I don't just stab people in the back!"  "Dude, I studied you!  You stabbed about fifty people in the back!"  "Well, not anymore!" exchange.  Hiddelston and Owen Wilson really are the perfect duo here.

Choosing to believe Loki talking about knocking Hulk off the Rainbow Bridge (during Ragnarok) is because he's still smarting over the beatdown he received in The Avengers (which should still be fresh in this variation's mind.)

Man, it sounds like things are going to get rough nature wise for Earth during the 2040s to 2050s.  The sad thing is that it wouldn't surprise me...

Whelp, Variant Loki/Lady Loki certainly made sure the timeline really got messed up now!  And Loki is going right after her and out of the TVA's grasp.  Should be fun!

[tv echo]

What an enjoyable episode...

When this episode opened up on a scene of a medieval marketplace, I first thought I was watching a fantasy show on The CW with its low production budgets and was disappointed at the lower production quality. But then it turned out to be a Renaissance Faire in Oshkosh, WI!

I liked Loki's impatient explanation of "duplication casting." I also liked his recognition of a Loki "scheme" and realizing that the kidnapping of Hunter C-20 was a trap. I really couldn't tell if Loki was telling the truth or playing the TVA agents. Loki's request to meet the Time Keepers sounded very much like his seeking an opportunity to kill the Time Keepers - or negotiate a better deal for himself. With Loki, it's hard to tell.

Loki later confirmed to the rogue Loki that he plans to overturn the Time Keepers. We'll probably root for him by the end of the series, because I'm slowly moving to the side of those who believe that the Time Keepers will turn out to be the bad guys.

So the TVA report on the destruction of Asgard said that there was "zero variance energy" detected, meaning it was meant to happen, despite the total destruction of that civilization and mass casualties.

Loki acting like a crime detective was really interesting to watch. His conclusion that rogue Loki is hiding in apocalypses was brilliant. Then his testing this theory with Mobius was very scientific.

Haven Hills, Alabama 2050 - so Rogue Loki possessed Hunter B-15 and then the sales clerk Randy and then the big burly guy - and then finally revealed itself to be Lady Loki (Sophia Di Martino)? 

Wow - Lady Loki managed to drop multiple bombs all over the sacred timeline, creating multiple branches. Then she went through a time portal, and our Loki followed her.

So Loki still doesn't have his magic powers even when he leaves the TVA facility/location?

FYI, in this Tom Hiddleston interview with CinemaBlend, Tom made the following comments about his character and Lady Loki in this second episode:

"I think certainly there's, in that second episode, there was a moment of taking these characteristics which I had found interesting about Loki – his capacity to sort of provoke and disrupt and manipulate with charm, often with charisma, with wit, and is sort of always playing chess with people. You're never quite sure if it's sincere, if you can trust him. And seeing those characteristics inhabited by other people was really interesting."

"It was a really interesting mirror for me. And then also a very freeing feeling of like delighting in how those qualities of Loki might exist outside of me completely. And I really enjoyed it. It was just really fun. I don't want to spoil things, but you'll see where it goes because we contain multitudes, as some great psychologist once said."

"Sophia [Di Martino] is great. Her energy is amazing. She does a great job in Episode 2, and their scene together and matching his energy there. It's really fun, albeit brief. I always knew in a show about branching timelines and variants and everything, we wanted to hold up a literal mirror to Loki. And, and so, you know, this is one of the ways we're going to do it."

Edited June 17, 2021 by tv echo

[dwmarch]

That was a great episode!

Nice setup for the subversion here. The TVA cartoon about variants does not show them changing gender and the briefing in this episode about variant Lokis suggested we might get a Hulk-Loki but also kept all the representations as male.

I wonder about product placement in the Roxxcart scenes. There were lots of recognizable brands. Off the top of my head I saw Arm and Hammer (sly), Zevia and a weaponized Roomba. Sometimes TV shows have recognizable brands but the boxes are turned sideways so you can't really see the logos. Not this episode. We got some glory shots of products neatly lined up on the shelves, fully recognizable.

I got a good laugh out of the TVA analyst calling 911 on a rotary dial phone.

I'll have to look back at that list of times and places where the temporal reset bombs were sent to. There might be some fun Easter eggs in there.

22 minutes ago, tv echo said:

So Loki still doesn't have his magic powers even when he leaves the TVA facility/location?

He used magic to dry his clothes in the Roxxcart.

[VCRTracking]

Loved the scene with Miss Minutes.

The interplay between Loki and Mobius continues to delight.

[swanpride]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

I don’t know about you guys, but listing all those “future” disasters made me nervous, especially since we are still getting through a pandemic.

My thought was "Climate change is really a bitch, isn't it?"

Anyway, another interesting episode. I especially loved Loki learning about Ragnarok and how it juxtaposed with him shit-talking the Asgardians beforehand. 

All this said...I actually don't think that Loki's goal is to take over for the time keepers or anything like this. Loki is never that straightforward. My bet is on him planning to change the timeline, so that Asgard and his whole family can continue to exist happily. 

[Llywela]

Am I allowed to be a pedant and point out that the thread title should say Variant not Varient?

4 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I don't think we've seen Loki jump from one person to another before, possess them and then drop the host body for another person. When he whammied Selvig and Hawkeye in The Avengers, they were still his minions, but he wasn't using them as Ubers.

In The Avengers he was using the staff to control people. Here, Variant Loki seemed to be using her own magic. I guess that makes the difference.

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Noticed that the actress playing the Hunter who was kidnapped was listed as a regular, so I wonder what is in store for her going forward.

Listed where? Somewhere official or just on imdb? Because if the latter, that doesn't mean anything - imdb can be edited by anyone, and fans of particular actors often get over-enthusiastic, assume a gig is going to be bigger than it is, and edit their entry accordingly (only for it to have to be corrected later). But if the former, interesting.

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

So Loki still doesn't have his magic powers even when he leaves the TVA facility/location?

 

No, he does. We saw him use his magic a couple of times - once to dry his clothes and once to call something off a shelf to him during a fight, to be used as a weapon. He's not using it much, though.

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

So our Loki wants to rule (of course), but Lady Loki is not interested in that. What is she interested in? Chaos?

One thing I liked was getting an explanation for what the "red line" meant because it goes a long way toward explaining the headspace of the TVA (or at least its active Minutemen/Agents.

So, "time travel/alternate timeline" thought experiment: It's September 11, 2001.  The military/intelligence folks were a bit quicker in their responses and scrambled jet fighters to intercept the hijacked planes.  You're flying one of them and have a missile lock on one of the hijacked planes.  Do you fire?  Bear in mind that there is no "third way" here.  You either fire and murder every innocent man, woman and child on that plane or you let it continue to its target where every man woman and child on that plane will still die, but they'll take a whole lot of other people with them when they do.

That's the headspace for the TVA folks every time they locate a variant and a "rogue" timeline.  Because if I understood it correctly, if that timeline isn't "reset/destroyed" when it hits the red line it will reset/destroy/replace the Sacred Timeline.  And given how often the variant has been a Loki, you understand why most of the TVA folks kind of hate.  Plenty of Minutemen have likely come through a Time Door, found Loki and probably said something like "Oh, Jesus fuck, not this asshole again!"

I don't think Lady Loki wants to destroy or overthrow the TVA, exactly.  Instead I think she wants to reveal a terrible truth to them - that they've been the victims of a lie.  Specifically the lie that the Sacred Timeline will be destroyed if another timeline hits the red line.  So, she stole all those reset bombs (and murdered the Minutemen who had them) and detonated them to create a huge number of variant timelines, likely too many for the (somewhat depopulated) Minutemen to stop/reset.  One or more of those timelines will cross the red line and... just continue with no effects on the Sacred Timeline.

Circling back to the 9/11 thought experiment, what happens when you learn that the plane you destroyed hadn't been hijacked?  It was destroyed because... your commanding officer's "bitch of an ex" was on that plane and he used you to kill them.  So, you killed all those innocent people for that guy's petty revenge.  How many dozens, hundreds, thousands of time lines has the TVA destroyed thinking it was either that or the end of the Sacred Timeline?  And they learn it was all bullshit.  That the Sacred Timeline was safe all along.  That all those universes were destroyed for nothing.  All those people in those universes murdered for nothing.  I'd imagine it would result in some agents wanting to have some meaningful, difficult conversations with the Timekeepers (or whoever turns out to be in charge).

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if the entity actually running the TVA was Miss Minutes (not the cartoon mascot so much as the artificial intelligence that the Timekeepers left behind to run things in the TVA when they died/ascended to godhood/whatever. 

[swanpride]

Question: Why is this one animated Time Keeper looking like Thanos? 

[arc]

Loki definitely has his magic when not in TVA space but it’s interesting that his trademark daggers are specific items he conjures out of hiding rather than creates whole out of nothing.

I guess the TVA mission teams didn’t slap a time collar on Loki because they were trying to extend trust and leave him some dignity, but in hindsight they should have time ankle bracelets for situations like this.

[silverstream]

13 hours ago, arc said:

My baseless speculation is that Ravonna is herself a Time Keeper. It would save on the costuming/VFX budget, it would explain why Mobius has never met a Time Keeper, and just overall it seems rather over the top that so much of TVA architecture incorporates giant Time Keeper statues. But all that would fit the trope of the final boss hiding in plain sight.

While I don't think Ravonna is a Time Keeper, I wouldn't be surprised if the thing with the three Time-Keepers turns out to be a myth and that they've either left or never existed in the first place. At this point I think there's a good chance we're going to get a "Wizard of Oz"-style pulling-back-the-curtain scene somewhere down the line. (Also, does anybody else think it's a bit weird that everybody keeps refering to the Time-Keepers as "lizards"? Presumably, they all have plenty of experience with non-human-looking sentient populations so I feel like this shouldn't stand out to them this much.)

Something else I noticed: The TVA agent who was captured said she gave up where to find the Time Keepers. However, we know even Mobius himself has never even met the timekeepers, and from what we've seen within the TVA he seems to be farther up the ladder than the minutemen. So is it that they theoretically know where they are but just don't go there, or is something else going on?

Any bets on whether the bit about "Illusion Projection" vs. "Duplication Casting" is going come back again in some way later?

Special mention: For some reason, I really liked the music this episode, especially when they first got to 2050.

Edited June 16, 2021 by silverstream

[paigow]

Loki is crossing from MCU to Star Wars...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

According to the MCU group I belong to on Facebook, some of the places the variant opened timelines to are of importance in the 'verse thus far. Vormir, Titan, Asgard, Ego, Xandar, Hala, New York, and Sakaar, in addition to some others, but all up and down the timeline, not in one single year. If this isn't where the multiverse starts, what is Lady Loki trying to do?

Edited June 16, 2021 by Cobalt Stargazer

[silverstream]

4 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

According to the MCU group I belong to on Facebook, some of the places the variant opened timelines to are of importance in the 'verse thus far. Vormir, Titan, Asgard, Ego, Xandar, Hala, New York, and Sakaar, in addition to some others, but all up and down the timeline, not in one single year. If this isn't where the multiverse starts, what is Lady Loki trying to do?

Could be that, or could be that they simply decided to use names familiar to the viewers instead of made-up names. Either way, there were a lot of them so I'd say that this incident creating the multiverse is definitely on the table.

[Wynterwolf]

26 minutes ago, silverstream said:

(Also, does anybody else think it's a bit weird that everybody keeps refering to the Time-Keepers as "lizards"? Presumably, they all have plenty of experience with non-human-looking sentient populations so I feel like this shouldn't stand out to them this much.)

I'm still wondering if this particular TVA facility is only responsible for Earth, so while they're aware other species exist, they don't have to deal with them that much? It's definitely weird not to see representatives from other worlds if this facility is supposed to be responsible for more than just Earth. 

[paigow]

Is an alternate timeline the same thing as an alternate universe? 

[tennisgurl]

This show continues to be really interesting, I am especially loving the weird 70s aesthetics of the TVA that mixes being kitsch and eerie. All of the old technology mixed with the very high tech aspects of the TVA, almost so high tech that its functionally magic, is so interesting. So you get bits like someone dialing the alarm on a rotary phone and Miss Minutes with her old timie aesthetics actually buzzing around Loki's desk to quiz him on protocol, its actually a really clever way to give the place an appropriately timeless feel to it, being both familiar and otherworldly. Its also still pretty creepy. Those hooded statues representing the Time Keepers especially cast a really sinister light over everything. They might seemingly be doing a good thing, keeping the timeline on track after some sort of multiversal disaster, but it wouldn't surprise me if they turned out to be on the shady side. We also find out that the TVA employees seem to have been created by the Time Variation Authority for the express purpose of doing this job, which certainly does raise a lot of questions. Are all of the agents as old as the TVA itself? Do they just keep on living until they get killed, or are they born and live a human lifespan like anyone else, just that they are whole generations all serving the sacred timeline? 

Miss Minutes is really stealing every scene she's in. "What a jerk." 

I suspected that we might get Lady Loki but it was still a great reveal, plus she also has some kind of mass chaos based plan. While Loki apparently wants to take over the TVA, because he still thinks that ruling over stuff will make him happy, or at least complain to the manager, Lady Loki wants to...blow up the timeline? Create a bunch of offshoots? Did she watch Endgame recently and is still trying to figure out how all the damn time travel there worked by doing experiments? I can imagine that she is trying to destroy the timeline to create more chaos, god of mischief and all that, but is that all? What's the endgame, pun not intended? 

Loki and Mobius continue to be a hilarious double act. Especially when Loki was all "I would never stab someone in the back!" while Mobius just reminds him that he has seen Loki's entire life, he knows what he gets up to. "I've seen you literally stab people in the back literally fifty times." Owen Wilson's really bringing an interesting energy to the show, he has a very "seen it all" sort of vibe, having been a time agent for who knows how long and experiencing totally crazy things basically every day, but he does still seem to have some compassion for the regular people that he interacts with, even if its just a brief interaction and he cant do much for them besides his greater job. I really want to know more about the TVA and how it all works, there is clearly a lot of lore here to explore. 

Seeing the various Loki's from different versions of the timeline, including one where he won the Tour de France (?) was hilarious, as were Loki's confused reactions to all of them. Are we going to get a whole army of Loki's all working together by the end?

Edited June 16, 2021 by tennisgurl

[silverstream]

5 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Are we going to get a whole army of Loki's all working together by the end?

I've been thinking something like that myself - that could be epic, even if we only get it for a brief moment. Though I suspect if we get it, the interpretation of "together" in "working together" might be malleable , lol.

[arc]

10 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

We also find out that the TVA employees seem to have been created by the Time Variation Authority for the express purpose of doing this job, which certainly does raise a lot of questions. Are all of the agents as old as the TVA itself? Do they just keep on living until they get killed, or are they born and live a human lifespan like anyone else, just that they are whole generations all serving the sacred timeline? 

Do they have any private lives or are they only there to work? There are lunch breaks and cafeterias, but Mobius hasn’t actually gone home for the night yet. He hasn’t even mentioned a home, though he’s mentioned a cubicle several times. Casey’s never even heard of fish.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

3 minutes ago, arc said:

Do they have any private lives or are they only there to work? There are lunch breaks and cafeterias, but Mobius hasn’t actually gone home for the night yet. He hasn’t even mentioned a home, though he’s mentioned a cubicle several times. Casey’s never even heard of fish.

Come to that, wouldn't the hunters be different from the office workers like Casey? I mean, they're not clones, and they all seem to be fully human, but they go out in the field to reset timelines and do whatever else. Are they not enhanced somehow in case they run across a fractious variant who isn't Loki?

[tennisgurl]

21 minutes ago, arc said:

Do they have any private lives or are they only there to work? There are lunch breaks and cafeterias, but Mobius hasn’t actually gone home for the night yet. He hasn’t even mentioned a home, though he’s mentioned a cubicle several times. Casey’s never even heard of fish.

It seems like they mostly just work, taking breaks to eat or have a drink with a colleague, but we have never seen any indictor of a personal life from anyone. Casey apparently has never even left the TVA as an office worker and we can gather that the agents are just leaving to go deal with Variants. Mobius talked a bit wistfully about wanting to go jet skiing and that's the most interest that anyone has shown in anything outside of their job guarding the timeline, and it was in a very "that would be nice but it cant be oh well" kind of way. Were they created to only want to work for the TWA and literally cannot do more than vaguely imagine doing anything else because that's how they were created? It seems like a pretty bleak existence to be created to only do this job and that's it. It seems a bit like what the Time Keepers are doing to everyone but in a more extreme capacity, everyone is created to serve one function on one preapproved path and that's all that you can do because that was your destiny all along as decided by the Time Keepers. 

Edited June 16, 2021 by tennisgurl

[silverstream]

1 hour ago, Wynterwolf said:

I'm still wondering if this particular TVA facility is only responsible for Earth, so while they're aware other species exist, they don't have to deal with them that much? It's definitely weird not to see representatives from other worlds if this facility is supposed to be responsible for more than just Earth. 

I'm wondering whether, if there are several branches of the TVA, they're in contact with each other or even know of the other branches' existence? It would be funny if there were a TVA branch out there staffed by lizard people guarding the planet of the lizard people and their version of the Time Keepers looked like regular humans 😄

46 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Mobius talked a bit wistfully about wanting to go jet skiing and that's the most interest that anyone has shown in anything outside of their job guarding the timeline, and it was in a very "that would be nice but it cant be oh well" kind of way. Were they created to only want to work for the TWA and literally cannot do more than vaguely imagine doing anything else because that's how they were created? It seems like a pretty bleak existence to be created to only do this job and that's it.

I'm still suspicious whether the TVA workers are actually created by the Time Keepers - I feel like there's a real possibility they've just been taken from somewhere and then have been brainwashed to believe they've always been with the TVA. As somebody said upthread, the TVA actually has no reason not to reset a variant immediately when they find one - maybe they just turn them into their employees? (The jet ski thing could even be a hint - maybe Mobius was originally a 90s-era jet ski champion or something, though that seems a stretch to me.)

Edited June 16, 2021 by silverstream

[magdalene]

I am more convinced than ever that the TVA - or whoever/whatever is controlling it - aren't good guys.   Tom Hiddleston makes Latin sound good. 

Mobius is going to jet ski by the end of the season, isn't he?

[Sakura12]

So we have a female Loki that seems much more interested in chaos than power. She managed to blow up the sacred timeline. Now I'm wondering if the Time Keepers wanted this to happen, they had to know the outcome that's why they let Renslayer allow Loki to go on that mission. The Time Keepers probably don't care about the sacred timeline they just want their minions to care about it. 

I'm also wondering if the TVA workers are real people that they've taken out of time and erased their memories or if they are just created beings. Mobius seems to really like the 90's, maybe he is from that time. Taking people is probably easier than creating people. 

[minamurray78]

So the reset chagers and "reseting a timeline" are different than what I thought there were. But what I dont get is how the charges are bombing the sacred timeline. From what we see at the ren fair, the charge "erases" things like that minuteman's body, helmet and some stuff that got broken during the fight with the variant, but it didn´t seem to affect the rest of the place, like the grass for instance. Though we still don´t see what it would do to regular people like those other folk at the fair. I thought it would destroy everything and everybody.

So I wonder when those charges about to go off are being sent to other locations in the sacred timeline, what are they doing exactly? If they are not being used in the place where a nexus event happened, what do they torch? Why are they useful for the minutemen to reset the timeline but now they are creating other branches?

 

[Cerulean]

Does “our” Loki recognize “Blonde Lady Loki”?

We’ve seen Loki from The Avengers to his death, and he’s always been “Dark haired Dude Loki”. 
 

So, was BLL (which btw, looks kinda like Thor), from a spot in DD’s past? Or did BLL branch at some point from DDL. 
 

If BLL has always been BLL, then that kind of blows away the premise of the sacred time line if she was around long enough from baby to now. 
 

Also, how does this fit in with the Satan stained glass?!? Would the little boy point at the window for the physique of that Loki?

Or is there a red haired burly Loki as part of the crew, too?
 

 

[thuganomics85]

Quote

Listed where?  Somewhere official or just on imdb? Because if the latter, that doesn't mean anything - imdb can be edited by anyone, and fans of particular actors often get over-enthusiastic, assume a gig is going to be bigger than it is, and edit their entry accordingly (only for it to have to be corrected later). But if the former, interesting.

The actress; Sasha Lane; was actually in the main credits at the end.  Granted, that doesn't mean she'll be in every episode going forward, but that is prominent enough that I have to think the character won't just be one and done.

[Wynterwolf]

10 minutes ago, Cerulean said:

Also, how does this fit in with the Satan stained glass?!? Would the little boy point at the window for the physique of that Loki?

She appeared to be able to inhabit other bodies at will, so maybe she used one that resembled the stained glass when she was handing out Kablooie. 

[Morrigan2575]

Good episode

 I like that we got Lady Loki that should be fun/interesting. I'm not sure what her game is, she's not into ruling which 2012 Loki is still hungry up on. However, she's got to have something bigger in mind than just causing Chaos.

I'm convinced that the Time Keepers don't exist, if they ever did. The discussion with Mobius and Ravonna plus the Mobius/Loki discussion have me in the Equilibrium mindset. 

Why does Loki keep getting his ass kicked? I know he's not a great fighter when up against Hulk, Thor or other Asgardians but, he should be able to easily take out a human (trucker) and Hunter Lady.

[Sakura12]

I'm guessing Lady Loki wanted Loki to follow her, since she left the time door open. 

[silverstream]

32 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I'm guessing Lady Loki wanted Loki to follow her, since she left the time door open. 

...yeah, the door also closed immediately just after Loki had passed through, which might be a dramatic coincidence but still seems suspicious.

[AimingforYoko]

4 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

According to the MCU group I belong to on Facebook, some of the places the variant opened timelines to are of importance in the 'verse thus far. Vormir, Titan, Asgard, Ego, Xandar, Hala, New York, and Sakaar, in addition to some others, but all up and down the timeline, not in one single year. If this isn't where the multiverse starts, what is Lady Loki trying to do?

If you want an overly specific breakdown of all the places and times Lady Loki bombed on the timeline, Eric Voss really digs in, as usual:

18:35 is when he breaks down all the targets.

[AnimeMania]

4 hours ago, arc said:

Do they have any private lives or are they only there to work? There are lunch breaks and cafeterias, but Mobius hasn’t actually gone home for the night yet. He hasn’t even mentioned a home, though he’s mentioned a cubicle several times. Casey’s never even heard of fish.

Mobius did say that time works differently there, so maybe when they are at work the time seems to go by like they worked a long time and when they are off or on a break, the time is really short but seems really long, a 1 minute break can seem like an hour or an 8 minute nap can seem like you slept for 8 hours.

[MissL]

1 hour ago, Cerulean said:

Does “our” Loki recognize “Blonde Lady Loki”?

We’ve seen Loki from The Avengers to his death, and he’s always been “Dark haired Dude Loki”. 
 

So, was BLL (which btw, looks kinda like Thor), from a spot in DD’s past? Or did BLL branch at some point from DDL. 
 

If BLL has always been BLL, then that kind of blows away the premise of the sacred time line if she was around long enough from baby to now. 
 

Also, how does this fit in with the Satan stained glass?!? Would the little boy point at the window for the physique of that Loki?

Or is there a red haired burly Loki as part of the crew, too?
 

 

Exactly.  I’m also very confused. If there is a sacred timeline and there are NOT multiverses then how do you end up with an ADULT LADY Loki? A blue Loki or Loki with different hair color who basically looks like our Loki I get but a full on different Loki if there isn’t an alternate universe makes no sense to me. I’m going to have to watch a YouTube video that explains this or something aren’t I?

[Chyromaniac]

Wow- it’s been a good month so far for Bonnie Tyler...

 I loved the Ren Faire opening scene.  To be honest, I was a little jealous - was that shot at a real Faire somewhere near Atlanta?  If so it looks like a better venue than several I’ve been to.  Otherwise, as someone who has worn a vaguely 70’s outfit to a Faire, I got a good chuckle from the local’s reaction to the TVA squad.

 The episode overall was enjoyable- lots of interesting discussions between Loki, the Variant, Mobius, and Renslayer.  Speaking of which...

4 hours ago, paigow said:

Is an alternate timeline the same thing as an alternate universe? 

I don’t necessarily think so.  Now, I am going to try and describe my interpretation of the difference, and how it relates to the show - as a caveat, I fear some of this may come across like Randian bulls#!t.  Please believe that it’s simply the only phrasing I can think of to describe this circumstance- and that in no way am I endorsing her garbage philosophy.

 I think there are two aspects of “reality“ at play here.  On one hand, there is the one singular universe which consists of the “sacred timeline,” as curated and cultivated by the time-keepers (or so the TVA believes).  This represents objective reality- the one true course of events for everyone and everything.

However, I feel like the show is suggesting that everyone is also experiencing their own personal timeline.  When we make choices that conform to the “sacred timeline,” then everything’s cool.  However if someone makes a choice that would subvert or contradict the plan, that’s when the TVA shows up to “reset” things.

My interpretation is that they feel that if variances are left unchecked, then they will unravel the sacred timeline, and the objective reality of the universe will cease to exist.  Instead, there would be a multiverse composed solely of everyone’s personal timelines.  And that these subjective realities would come into conflict as those with sufficient power would try to impose their reality on everyone else- a “multiverse war” so to speak.  I guess we’ll see how this all plays out, but from what we’ve been told about phase 4, it’s not looking good for the ol’ sacred timeline...

6 minutes ago, MissL said:

If there is a sacred timeline and there are NOT multiverses then how do you end up with an ADULT LADY Loki? A blue Loki or Loki with different hair color who basically looks like our Loki I get but a full on different Loki if there isn’t an alternate universe makes no sense to me. I’m going to have to watch a YouTube video that explains this or something aren’t I?

If you are not averse to a little deductive speculation on her, you may want to check out the Fandom Entertainment (aka screen junkies) spoiler recap of episode two.  What they suggest is kind of a stretch, but at this point, who can say (besides the time-keepers, of course)?

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 minutes ago, Chyromaniac said:

 I loved the Ren Faire opening scene.

That reminds me. I thought for a second that the woman at the Ren Faire who told the Minutemen they weren't dressed right was Kathryn Hahn. I looked at IMDB just to be sure, and it's actually someone named Kate Berlant, but I was thinking, What the hell is Agatha doing here?  Oops.

[kay1864]

22 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

I thought for a second that the woman at the Ren Faire who told the Minutemen they weren't dressed right

 And since she implied that she worked there, she was talking to them totally out of character (“you guys...”).  That’s not what people who work at Ren Fairs normally do.

On 6/16/2021 at 7:04 PM, Wynterwolf said:

She appeared to be able to inhabit other bodies at will, so maybe she used one that resembled the stained glass when she was handing out Kablooie

 Or this variation from the trailer...

 

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

The actress; Sasha Lane; was actually in the main credits at the end.  Granted, that doesn't mean she'll be in every episode going forward, but that is prominent enough that I have to think the character won't just be one and done.

As soon as I saw Sasha Lane, I figured she'd be more than a one-off character. She's not well known but has been getting a lot of buzz the last few years. Of course, I could be wrong and we never see her again. I also recognized Kate Berlant at the Renaissance Faire and yes, she did resemble Agatha. 

I still think the TVA are shady, but I'm usually suspicious when one/few are the only people in the universe who can maintain order and must be unquestioned in the decisions made. Before all of this is over, I hope Mobius gets to ride a jet ski and Casey gets to see a fish.

[SnarkShark]

Okay, I consider this something of a placeholder episode, although it did succeed in shutting down a few of my theories (like, for example, that the TVA might be bound at the top end by a "present" equal to the furthest in-continuity MCU event we've seen). 

Lady Loki was all but assured, but quicker than I'd expected.  

The emotional highlight was seeing Loki genuinely upset about Ragnarok, although brushing it off when later confronted about that. 

21 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I still think the TVA are shady, but I'm usually suspicious when one/few are the only people in the universe who can maintain order and must be unquestioned in the decisions made. Before all of this is over, I hope Mobius gets to ride a jet ski

I don't.  Mobius is a stone faced sociopath (like most of the TVA).  We got what sounded to me was confirmation that a reset timeline erases that copy of people.  So Mr. Mobius can play nice with kids he's about to murder.  Whoopie.  Give him a jetski! 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

22 minutes ago, SnarkShark said:

I don't.  Mobius is a stone faced sociopath

Well, in that case he's in good company with Loki. There's been a couple of moments where I've felt genuinely bad for him, and his tears in the first episode were surprising, but I won't downplay all the things I know he's done. All this talk of how Mobius kills kids just underlines that Loki is also a cold-blooded murderer, and his ability to whip up a few sniffles at all the time he wasted resenting the people who really did love him isn't that impressive.

[IWantCandy71]

I think Owen Wilson elevates this show to an 8, 8.5, when without him,  my Loki love aside, I'm not even sure I'd be watching.

I think Mobius is the softest character on the show and one of the only likeable ones. 

I mean I love watching Loki, but he's done horrible things. Mobius balances him out and makes him softer, and a character like Loki needs that. Otherwise he is just a straight up villain.

 

Count me in as curious to what the TVA  people are if they were "created". Are they human ?

Obviously they can die, so they aren't robots. But wasn't one of Loki's first lines in ep 1, when he saw the TVA headquarters, "this is an illusion ?" That seemed a strange thing to say.

What if they are clones of long dead people, which would explain the different eras some appear to be from ?

Edited June 17, 2021 by IWantCandy71

[arc]

5 hours ago, Cerulean said:

Also, how does this fit in with the Satan stained glass?!? Would the little boy point at the window for the physique of that Loki?

Lady Loki had a headdress on with small horns in Roxxcart. The horns might have been why the kid pointed at the horned devil in the stained glass.

[SnarkShark]

2 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Well, in that case he's in good company with Loki. There's been a couple of moments where I've felt genuinely bad for him, and his tears in the first episode were surprising, but I won't downplay all the things I know he's done. All this talk of how Mobius kills kids just underlines that Loki is also a cold-blooded murderer, and his ability to whip up a few sniffles at all the time he wasted resenting the people who really did love him isn't that impressive.

 

1 hour ago, IWantCandy71 said:

I think Mobius is the softest character on the show and one of the only likeable ones. 

I mean I love watching Loki, but he's done horrible things. Mobius balances him out and makes him softer, and a character like Loki needs that. Otherwise he is just a straight up villain.

Multiple things can be true at the same time, IMO.  On reflection, I'm not sure of Mobius even thinks of these people he's killing as real.  They're mere copies of what he thinks of as real people. So it's not killing, it's cleanup.  Like vacuuming up dust bunnies. 

But there may be some irony in the situation.  Several theorists on the Internets think the cruel joke underneath it is that the TVA is staffed by people who ARE variants, who don't know they are, because their memories have been wiped. The fact that Mobius just cultishly believes he was created full formed by The Timekeepers, that Casey only knows his desk and the lunchroom, and not what a Fish is, that they're constantly consuming discontinued drinks from the 1990s, while using tech that's a hybrid of the early 1970s and the far future... there's just so much about life at the TVA that makes no damn sense.  But it's not a failure of the writing. There are reasons it doesn't, I bet. 

Heck, even Miss Minutes doesn't make total sense. But more on that in another post. 

[Sakura12]

All these other Loki's implies that there are alternate realities at play here. Which means Loki at multiple times in his life veered of course and kept creating new timelines and realities. One where he accepted his ice giant heritage, one where he was like the Hulk, one where he won the Tour de France and one where he is a woman. Those Loki's all lived different lives until they were erased. 

So is female Loki one they didn't erase or is she a new one that found out about them. How does that work? She really veered of course from the timeline Loki is supposed to follow. If she was raised female, wouldn't the TVA have intervened then? Or did she choose to be a woman at a later time.

As for her being a Loki. She said she was. She said our Loki is her. She just doesn't like her name being Loki. She changed her name to something else.

it's probably Sylvie and she calls herself the Enchantress

But she's still a version of Loki.