S01.E08: Holding The Wrench

[scarynikki12]

Quote

Clark encourages Lois to reach out for help after noticing her reaching a breaking point.

 

 

[scarynikki12]

If Clark needs some fast cash he can always become a repairman.

I really liked Kyle and Lana immediately going into Supportive Parent Mode at the idea of Sarah trying out for theater. I’m all in on Kent Family Time but it’s nice to see it spread around a bit. I can totally relate to Sarah’s stage fright and I don’t have any vocal talent whatsoever. And bravo Kyle for not showing up for Sarah because you’re mad at Lana. Glad she told him off and he seems to regret his actions.

So Irons finally understands doppelgängers. 

Either General Lane is super short or Trask is insanely tall.

Seeing Lois and Jon team up was nice and then Jon almost gets killed snooping around by himself. It really speaks to Lois’ fear of losing Jon that she went so hard on him. Telling him about her miscarriage and apologizing was a great scene. Team Extraordinary Humans!

So Irons’ Natalie was named for Lois’ grandma, was the chosen name for a daughter she miscarried, and the knowledge is bringing up painful memories. That’s how you play with doppelgänger fallout. Not acting like Irons’ Lois and Prime Lois are the same.

Supes inhaled a ton of kryptonite gas and still beat the XK soldier guy. Serious willpower. And I agree with Sam on being prepared with kryptonite but he needs to secure it much better than that. 

Berlanti should put a team together to do a series of Arrowverse specials focusing on superhero therapy. They could always bring in Dr. Linda from Lucifer if they want to keep it in the WB/DC family.

[bettername2come]

Okay, I think this is might be the best Superman show ever. And I say that as someone who owns every episode of Lois and Clark and several seasons of Smallville. There's plenty of things I find ridiculous - like leaving the murder RV in the Kent family barn - but there's so many good, emotional moments. And the screwed-up, loving, caring parents. I do like how they keep the Cushings involved, and, man, do I want to hate Kyle, but he clearly loves and supports his daughter despite his flaws. And Lois yelling at Jon for putting himself in danger (as if he doesn't get this from her side of the family). My heart broke when Jon started crying, but gosh, Lois must have been terrified with her child screaming for help and being right there unable to do anything. That alone would've been enough without the miscarriage backstory (always good to see Wendy Crewson). I like the connection to the name Natalie. Oh, and for another "poor Jon" moment, he had to watch a version of his dad murder his mom. I know it got a little lost with his almost dying moments after, but still. Can Jon get in on the family therapy please?

The AI van really needs to be able to detect Kryptonians and tell John Henry about it. Seriously, I'm disappointed that hasn't been a plot point. 

I did appreciate Sam at least warning Clark about the Kryptonite room and explaining things. I mean, he's not the only Kryptonian, brainwashing exists in this universe, it makes sense to have a supply. But still. 

Woohoo, no more football! If you can't be Friday Night Lights or at least All-American, don't try to be a football show.

[Lady Calypso]

This episode really encompassed its strengths and why this could be the one CW show that doesn't feel like a CW show, but something even better. Keeping the show mostly grounded in reality while having superheroes involved is a perfect way to approach this show. Instead of superheroes that live on Earth, it feels like humans who happen to also have superpowers, but is still rooted in some sort of realism, if that makes sense. Seeing them deal with real life issues, and also dealing with them in a mature way, is just so rare to see, especially on a CW show. This show really separates itself from the rest of the Arrowverse, in the best way possible. 

What? Someone ACTUALLY going to therapy on a superhero show? Especially so early on in the series? And it's not the first time they go to therapy? Fascinating. Seriously, I should not be impressed with characters going to therapy when they need it, and I'm not used to couples like Lois and Clark actually talking like mature adults. But here we are. And Elizabeth Tulloch absolutely NAILED every single scene this episode. This episode proved why this show is called Superman AND LOIS. Giving Lois the forefront was a smart decision, and I love how they tied in John Henry Irons' world with hers a little bit. The miscarriage was a total surprise, but it worked really well with tying that together and giving Lois some empathy toward Irons.

Even without all that, I can't imagine the fear that went through Lois when Jonathan was in danger and she couldn't stop it herself. That gives her full permission to yell at him, although she definitely lashed out harsher than I even expected. But it's good that she recognized that IMMEDIATELY and went to talk out her feelings before going back to apologize to Jon. And she really gave the best apology. No "I'm sorry but...", no excuses, just a full out apology while also sharing something deeply personal to give him perspective. Amazing. And I love the speech Lois gave Jon about being Extraordinary Humans in a Super Family. 

Speaking of Jonathan, he was having a rough episode but I'm so glad he also got his time to shine. Yes, he was incredibly reckless in going back to the RV, but he's a teenager and he recognized how wrong it was, although almost too late. I felt bad for him to have to hear his own mother call him reckless and stupid, but that scared him shitless into hopefully not doing any of that again. And it was good for him to go to his brother for some comfort, even though Jordan had to interrupt the bonding session to help Sarah. 

Poor Sarah, having to deal with her father not appearing at another event. They really are exploring Kyle's issues with alcohol quite well. You can see that he means well and really wants to be a great dad, but his alcoholism is really getting in the way of that. It's so good that they have added layers to Kyle as a character. It makes me hope for his redemption and his ability to be a better dad and person (and to hopefully lose the illusion of Edge being Smallville's Saviour). 

Sam Lane....is gonna be a lot of trouble sooner, rather than later. Having him create weapons against Superman without informing him is a choice. I get that he wants to be prepared, but...at least keep your son-in-law in the loop, buddy!

Now, that's not to say this episode didn't have some questionable moments. Letting Irons go so free without consequence, having Irons literally give up his crusade so easily (unless he's only taking off to create another plan), and also the school musical stuff was the weaker parts of the episode for me, but it was still probably the best episode to date, even better than the last two. 

I hope this show never loses focus on its strengths: the honesty, the mature conversations, grounding the characters in humanity first, rather than any sort of powers, and the family ties that bond everyone together. That is what will make this show successful in the long run.

[thuganomics85]

Hold up!  So, Lois (understandably) freaks out at Jonathan for almost getting himself killed and goes overboard with her yelling and.... realizes that her anger was a bit much and actually goes to therapy?!  I thought you were suppose to just let things simmer and drag the angst out, with a bonus of possibly making things get even worse the more it is left unaddressed.  What kind of show is this?!

On a more serious note, it really was well done.  Obviously Lois went too far on some levels, but I found her reaction to be very realistic.  No matter how great a parent is, almost losing a child due to his or her own mistakes has to be one of their greatest fears, and while not pretty, it is very human that there would be anger at their child for doing something dumb, and lash out at them without thinking.  It was hurtful and unpleasant, but it really does come from a place of love and not wanting to see something she truly cares for to die in front of her, while being helpless to stop it.  But I'm glad she did realize that she needed help with her anger and saw the therapist (Wendy Crewson!) to address where her words and reaction came from.  And finding out that she had a miscarriage that she never really fully addressed explains things even more. 

But what I think was more important for Lois is that she also realizes why Jonathan did what he did.  That, like her, he's a normal human living amongst supermen, and he has a need to feel important in his own way.  Something I imagine she is more than familiar with.  So, hopefully this means that she can show him other ways to do this, he will learn to control his own emotions and not do anything reckless like this again, and their bond will be even stronger now (although, I'm sure there will always be obstacles along the way.)  Elizabeth Tulloch was fantastic here, and Jordan Elsass was right behind her.

And while a smaller moment, I liked that during the initial scene, Clark stayed out of it and let Lois vent/yell, but once Jonathan was gone, he calmly addressed that she had the right to feel that way, but maybe she was wrong for how she acted towards Jonathan and suggested that maybe she should talk to someone else, since he might not be the right person at the moment for it.  It's just so weird seeing a healthy couple have healthy moments like this during moments like this!

Silly me, actually kind of liking Kyle for a bit and watching him go into dad mode, but then once he thinks Morgan doesn't respect him thanks to Lana's misdirections (or did he see through it and get upset she lied to him?), he hits the bottle again and isn't there for Sarah when she needed him.  At least there is more dimensions to him now, but he really is going to need to step things up, or he might lose his family.

I get the whole "prepare for the worst" concept, but I'm starting to really be side-eying Sam now.  Seems like a lot of anti-Superman weaponry you have there, buddy.

John Henry Irons already being released is a little far-fetched to me, but I'm glad that he is at least going to drop his vendetta against this Superman for now, and could be a potential ally going forward.

Another great episode.

Edited June 3, 2021 by thuganomics85

[shapeshifter]

34 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Obviously Lois went too far on some levels, but I found her reaction to be very realistic.  No matter how great a parent is, almost losing a child due to his or her own mistakes has to be one of their greatest fears, and while not pretty, it is very human that there would be anger at their child for doing something dumb, and lash out at them

Lois yelling at Jonathan took me back to yelling at my kids when she used the “stupid” word. Fortunately I couldn’t yell more than a few words when that upset because my throat would tighten until I was squeaking in a mouse voice. Anyway, her yelling seemed natural to me, even if it is one of those things we say we’re never going to do.

I don’t watch this show very closely and may have to quit because I’m missing too much. Like why/how was Other Universe Lois’s husband able to just drive off into the sunset in what looked like a camper full of high tech assault rifles?

And Lana tells her alcoholic husband he’s “not leadership material”??

Edited June 2, 2021 by shapeshifter

[scarynikki12]

5 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

And Lana tells her alcoholic husband he’s “not leadership material”??

In this case Lana is working for/with Morgan Edge as an inside source for Lois as she investigates him. She's trying to keep Kyle out of Edge's dealings so that, when Lois exposes him, he avoids being implicated in his crimes and isn't part of the fallout. Lana already tried to keep out a friend last episode and it didn't work so this time she tried a different track to keep Kyle from getting involved. And she can't tell him because he thinks the sun shines out of Edge's ass so it ends up hurting his feelings and he soothes the wound by drinking and disappointing Sarah.

[shapeshifter]

27 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

In this case Lana is working for/with Morgan Edge as an inside source for Lois as she investigates him. She's trying to keep Kyle out of Edge's dealings so that, when Lois exposes him, he avoids being implicated in his crimes and isn't part of the fallout. Lana already tried to keep out a friend last episode and it didn't work so this time she tried a different track to keep Kyle from getting involved. And she can't tell him because he thinks the sun shines out of Edge's ass so it ends up hurting his feelings and he soothes the wound by drinking and disappointing Sarah.

Yeah, but maybe instead something more like: “Morgan just doesn’t appreciate your talents” rather than “…not leadership material.” 
IDK. Lana can’t stop a drinker from drinking, but she doesn’t have to drive him to it either. Or is that a typical thing for her character to do?

Edited June 2, 2021 by shapeshifter

[scarynikki12]

11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, but maybe instead something more like: “Morgan just doesn’t appreciate your talents” rather than “…not leadership material.” 
IDK. Lana can’t stop a drinker from drinking, but she doesn’t have to drive him to it either. Or is that a typical thing for her character to do?

I see it as her not knowing the right thing to say. We’ve seen moments where Lana and Kyle are in sync, like when they perked up at Sarah’s audition, but they’re mostly out of sync. Lana saying the wrong thing to Kyle even though she’s trying to protect him points to that. 

[Lady Calypso]

21 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, but maybe instead something more like: “Morgan just doesn’t appreciate your talents” rather than “…not leadership material.” 
IDK. Lana can’t stop a drinker from drinking, but she doesn’t have to drive him to it either. Or is that a typical thing for her character to do?

I think Lana was trying to find a way to make sure that Kyle didn't question Morgan himself on the reasons for him not being considered for the position, but of course she's going to say something that achieves a more negative result. It's not her driving her husband to drink (he did that on his own accord), but she was trying to protect him from Morgan Edge in hopes that he'd stay away this time. Yes, it obviously turned out badly, but I think, in Lana's mind, she'd rather Kyle be hurt and driven away from Morgan Edge, rather than him getting closer to him. 

Alas, because this is still a television show that has some sort of predictability to it, we know Kyle will find out the truth and will likely draw him closer to Edge at a time that is the most inconvenient. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Either General Lane is super short or Trask is insanely tall.

Seeing Lois and Jon team up was nice and then Jon almost gets killed snooping around by himself. It really speaks to Lois’ fear of losing Jon that she went so hard on him. Telling him about her miscarriage and apologizing was a great scene. Team Extraordinary Humans!

So Irons’ Natalie was named for Lois’ grandma, was the chosen name for a daughter she miscarried, and the knowledge is bringing up painful memories. That’s how you play with doppelgänger fallout. Not acting like Irons’ Lois and Prime Lois are the same.

Trask, RIP, is apparently insanely tall. Superman looked short next to him and Tyler H is 6' tall, according to the interwebs.

I know the episode brought a lot of feels, but I definitely was like, "Really, Lois, you're going to get on Jon for snooping?" That's your brand! You've presumably been meddling in super-powered stuff for 20 years in universe and for 80 years in various media. I almost wanted Jonathan to parallel that anti-drug commercial: "I learned it from YOU, mom!"

Kudos to the show for handling the miscarriage thing as well as it did. In most other genre shows, they either would have been too cautious to hand an actress/actor a serious storyline or they would bobble it. 

2 hours ago, bettername2come said:

Okay, I think this is might be the best Superman show ever. And I say that as someone who owns every episode of Lois and Clark and several seasons of Smallville. There's plenty of things I find ridiculous - like leaving the murder RV in the Kent family barn - but there's so many good, emotional moments. And the screwed-up, loving, caring parents. I do like how they keep the Cushings involved, and, man, do I want to hate Kyle, but he clearly loves and supports his daughter despite his flaws. And Lois yelling at Jon for putting himself in danger (as if he doesn't get this from her side of the family). My heart broke when Jon started crying, but gosh, Lois must have been terrified with her child screaming for help and being right there unable to do anything. That alone would've been enough without the miscarriage backstory (always good to see Wendy Crewson). I like the connection to the name Natalie. Oh, and for another "poor Jon" moment, he had to watch a version of his dad murder his mom. I know it got a little lost with his almost dying moments after, but still. Can Jon get in on the family therapy please?

The AI van really needs to be able to detect Kryptonians and tell John Henry about it. Seriously, I'm disappointed that hasn't been a plot point. 

I did appreciate Sam at least warning Clark about the Kryptonite room and explaining things. I mean, he's not the only Kryptonian, brainwashing exists in this universe, it makes sense to have a supply. But still. 

Woohoo, no more football! If you can't be Friday Night Lights or at least All-American, don't try to be a football show.

I think it is too soon to say how this compares to other Superman shows after not even a full season. But with just a handful of relatively minor exceptions (football scenes, too much Jordan angst and too little concern about Jonathan) I think it's come out the gates firing on all cylinders like few other network TV shows have, genre or no. 

It makes sense to have Murder RV someplace where they can keep an eye on it. I would have flown it to the Fortress if I had superpowers, but then the plot couldn't have happened.

For Kyle so loved his daughter that he got day-drunk and missed helping with her audition, all because he couldn't smooch Morgan Edge's butt some more and Lana held him back. It is interesting to see this Lana on the other end of "secrets and lies" after multiple seasons of Smallville where that is what Kristin Kreuk Lana would always go on about.

The Shit on Jon Parade continues. Let's see if I miss anything:

• Lost his grandmother
• Forcibly moved away from his friends and the town where he is a big man on campus with no say in the matter in order to benefit Jordan/Clark
• His girlfriend broke up with him
• Lost the super-power lottery (at least as far as he knows/for now)
• Denied a trip to the Fortress because he doesn't have powers
• Had his family focus its attention even more on Jordan's needs
• Physically threatened with harm a couple times
• Forced to be a liar to protect Jordan's secret
• Accused of trying to pick up on Jordan's crush
• Told he's not in the league of a cool girl who may be interested in him
• Unable to make friends despite having been in Smallville for a while now
• Had his wrist broken by Jordan with little/no apologies
• Yelled at by Mom for something she did on a weekly basis.
• Introduced to the notion that his dad might be Evil.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something, and next week will bring more additions. 

I will give the show that at least Jordan was willing to express some support, even if he didn't actually do anything and the second he could help Sarah with her audition, Jon's issues took a back seat. 

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

What? Someone ACTUALLY going to therapy on a superhero show? Especially so early on in the series? And it's not the first time they go to therapy? Fascinating. Seriously, I should not be impressed with characters going to therapy when they need it, and I'm not used to couples like Lois and Clark actually talking like mature adults. But here we are. And Elizabeth Tulloch absolutely NAILED every single scene this episode. This episode proved why this show is called Superman AND LOIS. Giving Lois the forefront was a smart decision, and I love how they tied in John Henry Irons' world with hers a little bit. The miscarriage was a total surprise, but it worked really well with tying that together and giving Lois some empathy toward Irons.

Even without all that, I can't imagine the fear that went through Lois when Jonathan was in danger and she couldn't stop it herself. That gives her full permission to yell at him, although she definitely lashed out harsher than I even expected. But it's good that she recognized that IMMEDIATELY and went to talk out her feelings before going back to apologize to Jon. And she really gave the best apology. No "I'm sorry but...", no excuses, just a full out apology while also sharing something deeply personal to give him perspective. Amazing. And I love the speech Lois gave Jon about being Extraordinary Humans in a Super Family. 

Speaking of Jonathan, he was having a rough episode but I'm so glad he also got his time to shine. Yes, he was incredibly reckless in going back to the RV, but he's a teenager and he recognized how wrong it was, although almost too late. I felt bad for him to have to hear his own mother call him reckless and stupid, but that scared him shitless into hopefully not doing any of that again. And it was good for him to go to his brother for some comfort, even though Jordan had to interrupt the bonding session to help Sarah. 

Poor Sarah, having to deal with her father not appearing at another event. They really are exploring Kyle's issues with alcohol quite well. You can see that he means well and really wants to be a great dad, but his alcoholism is really getting in the way of that. It's so good that they have added layers to Kyle as a character. It makes me hope for his redemption and his ability to be a better dad and person (and to hopefully lose the illusion of Edge being Smallville's Saviour). 

Sam Lane....is gonna be a lot of trouble sooner, rather than later. Having him create weapons against Superman without informing him is a choice. I get that he wants to be prepared, but...at least keep your son-in-law in the loop, buddy!

Now, that's not to say this episode didn't have some questionable moments. Letting Irons go so free without consequence, having Irons literally give up his crusade so easily (unless he's only taking off to create another plan), and also the school musical stuff was the weaker parts of the episode for me, but it was still probably the best episode to date, even better than the last two. 

I hope this show never loses focus on its strengths: the honesty, the mature conversations, grounding the characters in humanity first, rather than any sort of powers, and the family ties that bond everyone together. That is what will make this show successful in the long run.

I remember that Barry and Iris went to couple's therapy on Flash, and Lightning went to therapy on Black Lightning, so it's not unprecedented for characters on these shows to do therapy. But Lois's therapy was way more grounded and better acted and directed. I mean it obviously sped through things for TV purposes so that she could have a breakthrough in less than the standard 50 minute session and Lois withheld a lot about what had happened. But it didn't seem to me to treat therapy like it treats football, or many shows treat a lot of professions. I like that they made therapy seem like a normal, helpful thing as opposed to playing it for laughs or what have you. It's not impossible that someone might watch this show and get inspired to get help, so thanks for that, show. 

I don't know if it really was all that reckless. There was no way for him to know that the van was booby-trapped and he had not expressly been told to not check the van out by himself. Lois just told him that she would check the van out with him later. As far as I remember (which I admittedly could have missed), she never said "Don't look at the van until I get back." 

Once again, Superman and Lois have some parenting fails that are easy to gloss over because how well the show is done overall. Last episode, Supes had no real excuse for not trying to X-ray the Murder Van when he was looking for clues. But you could at least excuse his actions somewhat because maybe he had limited time, or he didn't really have reason to believe that "Marcus" was a bad guy, or something along those lines. In this episode, he specifically has all the time and all the incentive to go over that van with a fine tooth comb. For him to not to do a scan of the van to see what all is there and then find out that the van had automated defenses is piss poor on his part. 

And it would have taken Lois literally a sentence to say "Not!Alexa, make Jonathan Kent (and Jordan Kent) authorized users as well."

I don't mind that they decided to let JHI go. But I do mind that either they let him go without actually debriefing him about what happened in his world, or the debriefing all happened in Offscreensville, and we the viewers don't get the benefit of knowing how JHI's Superman broke bad, exactly what he did, what weapons and tactics got used in the fight against the Kryptonians,, etc etc etc.

[Chicago Redshirt]

48 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Yeah, but maybe instead something more like: “Morgan just doesn’t appreciate your talents” rather than “…not leadership material.” 
IDK. Lana can’t stop a drinker from drinking, but she doesn’t have to drive him to it either. Or is that a typical thing for her character to do?

I think Lana's character has not yet been fully fleshed out except as "Kyle's wife," "Sarah's (and other daughter's) mom" and "Clark's ex" although thankfully, they have not leaned into that last part of things. There are not too many personality traits that she has displayed. 

We the audience know that Lana is suspicious of Morgan to the point where she tried to steer her friend away from this leadership program but failed, and definitely by extension did not want Kyle signing up for it. Unlike us, Lana has no idea that the program is apparently signing people up for Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Kryptonian style, and that the experimentation almost always kills people, so I guess it's good that she has the instincts she does. 

Lana was in an awkward position, because especially while she's in the office, she can't tell Edge Fan No. 1, "I think he is up to sketchy business, and I don't want you mixed up in it." Her objective is to try to tell him something that will get him to accept that he's not going to be part of the program and stop pushing for it. 

If she had taken a tack similar to what you suggested, Kyle might very well be like, "Well, I'll show him! I'm going to prove I've got exactly what it takes."

But being told by Lana that Edge directly rejected him took the wind out of those sails. Unfortunately for Lana, the over/under for how many episodes it might take for Kyle to directly speak to Edge and get approval to join the leadership program I'd say is two. 

[kickingnames]

What a great episode. Elizabeth Tulloch really brought the heart; she was pretty flawless throughout. The icing on the cake for me would have been actually getting to see Clark having a one-on-one conversation with Jonathan about something not related to Jordan, but... hope springs eternal, I guess.

Clark and Lois’ relationship is so refreshing to watch. So full of sincerity and maturity, but also this:

Clark to Lois: “Are you okay?”
LOIS, growling: “I’m fine, Clark.”
Clark: “Okay.... I’m gonna mark that down as a NO.”

The miscarriage reveal and the Natalie connection were really well done. It’s a new day in the Arrowverse — hooray for doppelgängers being treated like the individually distinct people they are!

Oh, my sweet baby Jonathan. I’m half convinced all this could have been avoided if Clark could just recognize that Jonathan needs  his extra care and attention too. Just hug your son, Clark! (Not that one — the other one!)

[dwmarch]

2 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And Lana tells her alcoholic husband he’s “not leadership material”??

Yeah, she gaslit him with the quickness. That was her choice of words, not Edge's and I am sure it will come back to haunt her despite her noble intention of keeping Kyle of out trouble. Their relationship has been shown as not being the healthiest and I feel like Kyle knew deep down that Lana betrayed him and also that it wasn't the first time.

Speaking of that scene, it's weird that Leslie is going around doing administrative follow-ups though. Last week I speculated that Edge totally knows that Lana is a spy and decided to punish her by recruiting her friend into the "you're totally gonna die" leadership program. But it looks like he still wants to pull a King David while he's at it and get Kyle out of the way too. That's the only reason I can see as to why Leslie is telling him about a job he wasn't really in the running for and that was filled before he heard about it. I know you're the boss Edge but we've seen that you're not above micromanaging and you could have called Kyle yourself if you want him so badly. So I think Edge must be doing this deliberately to drive a wedge between Lana and Kyle before he goes in for the kill, avoiding that awkward "wanna snuggle? Too soon?" conversation he'd otherwise have to deal with.

As mentioned above, the scene with Lois apologizing to Jon was great. I feel like this is a kind of conversation I haven't seen in much superhero material and I have seen lots of it. Marvel will occasionally knock on the fourth wall, like for example Hawkeye joking about being the member of the team who has a bow and arrow in Age of Ultron. But aside from him quipping "none of this makes any sense" they never come back to it and the regular squishy humans generally keep pace with the powered people. This show does well in showing that there is a big disparity between powered and non-powered and it's not only physical, it's also emotional. The showcase on Lois' vulnerability was powerful.

Can you line a Winnebago with lead and then proceed to drive it like... anywhere? Mileage must suck although it's possible it has an exotic power source.

There was some emphasis in this episode about getting through to Irons in order to help stop the war that is coming. Um, did anyone notice that Irons totally lost the war he was in? He didn't just get his ass kicked, he got it kicked right out of his universe! Not only that, he left a daughter behind and while he feels guilty about it he hasn't mounted a rescue mission yet. Not the guy I'd go to for advice on how to win. Intel and weapons, sure. Strategy? No.

[arc]

 

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In this episode, he specifically has all the time and all the incentive to go over that van with a fine tooth comb. For him to not to do a scan of the van to see what all is there and then find out that the van had automated defenses is piss poor on his part. 

In this episode Lois said Clark said the RV was lead-lined. That said, there's other super-senses, and also Kryptonian tech and also, just fly a regular 21st century human-made drone quadcopter in there or something. Sending in Lois and Jon as the very first wave was stupid.

Is opsec not a thing? How are Clark and Lois talking on regular phone networks about this stuff???

ROFL at the Trask guy giving Clark the side-eye. He's literally Superman and you're a torturer! A torturer on American soil, like they're not even going to send Irons to Gitmo first.

Hey, Jon's long-delayed envy about not having superpowers has finally arrived! Better late than never.

Has the Kent family really not built more super-pagers? They just share the one?

The Lana-Kyle story has been pretty great. I think this is the first time Kyle hasn't been a raging tool all series.

This "Put On A Happy Face" kid really sandbagged himself singing without accompaniment. Also, why why why would the show put this guy on and then Sarah says she can't perform a capella????????? He should have just been the slam poetry act from the signup sheet!

Boy, Clark could really use some super-hearing down in sector 5. Too bad it only works when writers want it to work.

This is a side note, but it kills me that Superman's cape is a nice saturated red but the S on his chest is super desaturated.

"You will each achieve your perfect selves" is cult talk.

3 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Can you line a Winnebago with lead and then proceed to drive it like... anywhere? Mileage must suck although it's possible it has an exotic power source.

He had to have built it in this universe. He had the ship and suit from his original universe, and I don't think that ship was big enough to carry an RV as well. (Side note: I now think he ditched the ship and suit because they're expensive for the show to make the CGI for and the RV is just an RV.) But it is hooked into the Luthor tech he stole.

[bettername2come]

5 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The Shit on Jon Parade continues. Let's see if I miss anything

Has now had to quit football -his one social outlet- completely. 

Coach said to his face “I don’t have a quarterback.”

Generally not given enough credit for heroic moments like jumping in front of his brother to stop him from accidentally murdering his middle school bully or saving his father.

[Chicago Redshirt]

4 hours ago, dwmarch said:

Yeah, she gaslit him with the quickness. That was her choice of words, not Edge's and I am sure it will come back to haunt her despite her noble intention of keeping Kyle of out trouble. Their relationship has been shown as not being the healthiest and I feel like Kyle knew deep down that Lana betrayed him and also that it wasn't the first time.

Speaking of that scene, it's weird that Leslie is going around doing administrative follow-ups though. Last week I speculated that Edge totally knows that Lana is a spy and decided to punish her by recruiting her friend into the "you're totally gonna die" leadership program. But it looks like he still wants to pull a King David while he's at it and get Kyle out of the way too. That's the only reason I can see as to why Leslie is telling him about a job he wasn't really in the running for and that was filled before he heard about it. I know you're the boss Edge but we've seen that you're not above micromanaging and you could have called Kyle yourself if you want him so badly. So I think Edge must be doing this deliberately to drive a wedge between Lana and Kyle before he goes in for the kill, avoiding that awkward "wanna snuggle? Too soon?" conversation he'd otherwise have to deal with.

As mentioned above, the scene with Lois apologizing to Jon was great. I feel like this is a kind of conversation I haven't seen in much superhero material and I have seen lots of it. Marvel will occasionally knock on the fourth wall, like for example Hawkeye joking about being the member of the team who has a bow and arrow in Age of Ultron. But aside from him quipping "none of this makes any sense" they never come back to it and the regular squishy humans generally keep pace with the powered people. This show does well in showing that there is a big disparity between powered and non-powered and it's not only physical, it's also emotional. The showcase on Lois' vulnerability was powerful.

Can you line a Winnebago with lead and then proceed to drive it like... anywhere? Mileage must suck although it's possible it has an exotic power source.

There was some emphasis in this episode about getting through to Irons in order to help stop the war that is coming. Um, did anyone notice that Irons totally lost the war he was in? He didn't just get his ass kicked, he got it kicked right out of his universe! Not only that, he left a daughter behind and while he feels guilty about it he hasn't mounted a rescue mission yet. Not the guy I'd go to for advice on how to win. Intel and weapons, sure. Strategy? No.

I wish that Lana stood up for herself and what she did. "Kyle, this is my workplace and I'm busy. You don't see me rushing on to fire scenes demanding explanations from you about something. We'll talk about this tonight at home." That would be one approach. Or even a more benign lie/half-truth. "Kyle, you have a great thing going as fire chief. Some of these other people who we selected are exactly the people we've always said need the second chance that Mr. Edge represents." Or "Mr. Edge is a great but demanding boss. Having both of us working for him would likely be disruptive raising our girls." Or even, "I know you think the world of Mr. Edge, but what if there's even a slight chance that Lois is right about him? Do we want to put all our eggs in the Morgan Edge basket?" Instead, she told him a lie that she should have known that he will have every opportunity to find out is a lie. He will certainly cross paths with Morgan himself, or Leslie, and say, "Hey I am interested in the leadership program. What can I do to get a spot in it?"

I don't think Leslie was doing administrative followup. She ran into Kyle and spontaneously mentioned that Morgan had wanted him for the leadership program. I don't see that as Morgan Edge pulling the strings. If he wanted to draft Kyle, he could have drafted Kyle, ;like you said.

Speaking of Leslie, it's kind of weird that neither she/Edge nor Clark/Lois seem to have been doing much with the reveal a few episodes back that she has superpowers and Lois knows about them. One would think that for Leslie's part she would spend more time surveilling Lois and totally found out who Superman is, etc. And you would think that Superman might not take the fact that someone tried murdering his wife and is involved with a scheme to smuggle XK for unknown reasons so nonchalantly. 

Getting intel about how the war on Earth JHI happened, what weapons worked and didn't, and how his planet lost would help inform the best strategy here. (I bet a part of Sam was taking notes like, "OK, so synthetic k gas didn't cut the grade, but that kryptonite spear apparently does the job. Let's see if we can fast-track some more of those. Or combine them so there's a spear that gives off the gas to soften them up.")

5 minutes ago, arc said:

 

In this episode Lois said Clark said the RV was lead-lined. That said, there's other super-senses, and also Kryptonian tech and also, just fly a regular 21st century human-made drone quadcopter in there or something. Sending in Lois and Jon as the very first wave was stupid.

Is opsec not a thing? How are Clark and Lois talking on regular phone networks about this stuff???

ROFL at the Trask guy giving Clark the side-eye. He's literally Superman and you're a torturer! A torturer on American soil, like they're not even going to send Irons to Gitmo first.

Hey, Jon's long-delayed envy about not having superpowers has finally arrived! Better late than never.

Has the Kent family really not built more super-pagers? They just share the one?

The Lana-Kyle story has been pretty great. I think this is the first time Kyle hasn't been a raging tool all series.

This "Put On A Happy Face" kid really sandbagged himself singing without accompaniment. Also, why why why would the show put this guy on and then Sarah says she can't perform a capella????????? He should have just been the slam poetry act from the signup sheet!

Boy, Clark could really use some super-hearing down in sector 5. Too bad it only works when writers want it to work.

This is a side note, but it kills me that Superman's cape is a nice saturated red but the S on his chest is super desaturated.

"You will each achieve your perfect selves" is cult talk.

He had to have built it in this universe. He had the ship and suit from his original universe, and I don't think that ship was big enough to carry an RV as well. (Side note: I now think he ditched the ship and suit because they're expensive for the show to make the CGI for and the RV is just an RV.) But it is hooked into the Luthor tech he stole.

Missed the line about the van being lead lined, but as you mentioned, there are other ways he could and should have determined that the van didn't have security measures. And also, the revelation about the van being lead-lined makes what happened last episode retroactively worse, as he should have used his X-ray vision then, seen it was lead-lined and then been on alert that the van situation is fishy since normal vans aren't lead-lined. Last episode is also made a little worse by the fact that the AI can recognize Lois Lane as an authorized user and Jonathan as an unauthorized intruder but apparently was dumb enough to think that Clark was "Captain Luthor."

Lois has a pager, and I think the boys have at least one. Why Jonathan didn't use one if he had one, not sure.

Kyle was decent when he took Lana for the "Congratulations on getting the promotion that I wish I had" dinner. I think he was still a raging tool in that he let his disappointment at being told by Lana that Morgan Edge didn't want him for the program send him into a depressive spiral that ended with him abandoning his kid as she tried out for a part that he pushed her into and that he knew she had tremendous anxiety about. 

Sarah has stage fright going solo, so it's not as though she technically could not perform solo. She just feared her anxiety would get the best of her without another person to feed off of performing with her. If they had the music tracks from the song she did, she would have had the same issue. She got reassurance from having Jordan there with her. 

What makes you think JHI "stole" anything from Luthor? The Earth Prime universe's JHI worked for Luthorcorp, and it's certainly possible that this one did too. These could all be his tech, or at least, tech that he either got with permission from Luthorcorp or inherited after Evil Supes killed Luthor or something. 

[Paloma]

6 hours ago, dwmarch said:

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

And Lana tells her alcoholic husband he’s “not leadership material”??

Yeah, she gaslit him with the quickness. That was her choice of words, not Edge's and I am sure it will come back to haunt her despite her noble intention of keeping Kyle of out trouble. Their relationship has been shown as not being the healthiest and I feel like Kyle knew deep down that Lana betrayed him and also that it wasn't the first time.

As someone whose first husband (decades ago) was an alcoholic, it also occurred to me that Lana's response was partly out of an underlying anger with Kyle's behavior as a husband and father. She may not have been aware of that anger in the moment she replied--she may really have been trying to keep him from getting involved in Edge's schemes--but when you are married to an alcoholic whose drinking results in unreliability regarding commitments and relationships, it's hard to forgive or forget so easily. So the anger may be expressed in conversations that seem unrelated to the drinking. Or, in this case, it may actually be related to the drinking because Lana knows that Kyle's drinking problem (which is clearly not over) make him unlikely to be leadership material. (Yes, I know he is a leader in being fire chief, but that's not the same thing as the type of positions Edge is supposedly trying to fill.) Even if she is trying to keep the marriage and is hoping that things are getting better, there has to still be a level of doubt or even mistrust in Kyle's ability or willingness to change.

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The Shit on Jon Parade continues. Let's see if I miss anything:

• Lost his grandmother
• Forcibly moved away from his friends and the town where he is a big man on campus with no say in the matter in order to benefit Jordan/Clark
• His girlfriend broke up with him
• Lost the super-power lottery (at least as far as he knows/for now)
• Denied a trip to the Fortress because he doesn't have powers
• Had his family focus its attention even more on Jordan's needs
• Physically threatened with harm a couple times
• Forced to be a liar to protect Jordan's secret
• Accused of trying to pick up on Jordan's crush
• Told he's not in the league of a cool girl who may be interested in him
• Unable to make friends despite having been in Smallville for a while now
• Had his wrist broken by Jordan with little/no apologies
• Yelled at by Mom for something she did on a weekly basis.
• Introduced to the notion that his dad might be Evil.

Not just introduced to the notion of Evil Superman, but also watched his Alt World Mother die by his hands. 

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I remember that Barry and Iris went to couple's therapy on Flash, and Lightning went to therapy on Black Lightning, so it's not unprecedented for characters on these shows to do therapy. But Lois's therapy was way more grounded and better acted and directed. I mean it obviously sped through things for TV purposes so that she could have a breakthrough in less than the standard 50 minute session and Lois withheld a lot about what had happened. But it didn't seem to me to treat therapy like it treats football, or many shows treat a lot of professions. I like that they made therapy seem like a normal, helpful thing as opposed to playing it for laughs or what have you. It's not impossible that someone might watch this show and get inspired to get help, so thanks for that, show. 

I don't know how long Lightning went to therapy on her show, but Barry/Iris went to therapy for only one episode and never went back. But with this show, I kind of expect to see the whole family eventually go see Dr. Wiles at some point, which means it would not be for some Very Special Episode. Which really IS groundbreaking for a superhero show on The CW. And yes, also the fact that they treat therapy as a normal, serious thing to do. 

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I don't know if it really was all that reckless. There was no way for him to know that the van was booby-trapped and he had not expressly been told to not check the van out by himself. Lois just told him that she would check the van out with him later. As far as I remember (which I admittedly could have missed), she never said "Don't look at the van until I get back." 

I think it was reckless because, like Clark even said, not everything will be as it seems. And Jonathan is still new to all of this, so he hasn't yet learned to maybe be more careful looking through the creepmobile. Especially when JHI had tech and weapons to kill Superman, it's logical that his van may also be dangerous enough to not rifle through. And, as Jon said himself, he was looking for weapons, so that does earn the title of being reckless. And that's fine, really, because he's a kid who also just witnessed a video of his mother getting killed by his father (another world or not, they have the same faces so it would impact anyone emotionally and mentally), so he was bound to get scared and want to look further. But still, reckless because he's still too young to be investigating dangerous men's vans by himself. 

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Lois has a pager, and I think the boys have at least one. Why Jonathan didn't use one if he had one, not sure.

Jordan has it, it's not Jonathan's.  Which actually makes no sense - Jonathan is the "regular" human so he should get it for the same reason that Lois does; they're going to need to be saved.  Jordan is still figuring out his powers for now, but in the future, he won't really need to be saved.  That part was backwards to me.  I guess they showed where he couldn't control his powers so he needed to use it, but still...

[waving feather]

If two of them have it, I don't see any reason why Jonathan can't have one as well. It's just stupid. Speaking of the word "stupid", I cringed when Lois yelled that word at him but the line that followed was even worse. That if he has died, it's on him. Okaaayyyy.... 

I feel like Lois and Clark have double standards when it comes to Jon and Jordan. Jordan can rebel, say hurtful things and lash out, but it is outrageous to them when Jonathan does it. Is it because he has been such a chill kid all these while, so they take it for granted?

I wonder if Jon seeing his parallel universe father kill his mother will make him distrust Clark's powers.

Edited June 2, 2021 by waving feather

[kickingnames]

1 hour ago, waving feather said:

I feel like Lois and Clark have double standards when it comes to Jon and Jordan. Jordan can rebel, say hurtful things and lash out, but it is outrageous to them when Jonathan does it. Is it because he has been such a chill kid all these while, so they take it for granted?

Oh, they absolutely have double standards for the boys. I think you’re right that they may be taking Jonathan’s generally easy-going nature for granted — but they really shouldn’t be, because he’s a teen now too, and even the most good-natured kid is gonna have terribly teen moments now and again. But considering Jordan’s struggles with anxiety throughout his childhood, they seem somewhat accustomed to Jordan’s more volatile reactions. I sorta wish we could get some flashbacks, just to see more of the family dynamics when Jordan’s anxiety wasn’t related to his powers.

[Primal Slayer]

OMG talk about great episode! Where is this writing across the Arrowverse? Looking at your Flash and Supergirl (partially batwoman) esp Flash in terms of fighting villains with lovely pep talks.

Superman/Clark is such a well fleshed out character in this that it is just so....refreshing. Same with Lois. He's able to go through the motions with John, ends up seeing things from his POV and even though JHI almost kills him, he still is willing to team up with him.

The Lois/Jon storyline was A+, especially when she was yelling at Jon for putting himself in danger. That was some good acting right there. The entire revelation that Lois had a miscarriage that was a girl, all very emotional and great way to tie it into Earth Whatever. 

Cant wait to see JHI find out that Lois is married to Superman. Hopefully that play with that the way I want them to. JHI may know that this Lois isnt his Lois but he still refuses to see Superman as a different Superman, when emotions come into play, esp with Dopplegangers, things can easily become clouded. Arrow tried that with Quentin but of course the writing wasnt as strong there. 

The main thing this series is missing is Supergirl mentions. JHI talks about multiple Kryptonians being out there, Superman going evil, but we already have another major Kryptonian, one who is related to Superman out there saving the world. That should be addressed. 

[BeautifulFlower]

3 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Not just introduced to the notion of Evil Superman, but also watched his Alt World Mother die by his hands. 

I don't know how long Lightning went to therapy on her show, but Barry/Iris went to therapy for only one episode and never went back. But with this show, I kind of expect to see the whole family eventually go see Dr. Wiles at some point, which means it would not be for some Very Special Episode. Which really IS groundbreaking for a superhero show on The CW. And yes, also the fact that they treat therapy as a normal, serious thing to do. 

 

I can't remember how long, but Jen went to therapy for more than two episodes on Black Lightning. It was treated somewhat normally with her going to deal with her emotions about her powers. This past season, Lynn and Jeff did therapy for their relationship as well as individually. It wasn't as great as Superman and Lois, but it was better than what The Flash did.

Barry and Iris went to therapy twice in season 4. Once for their communication issue, and the other for Barry's grief over Ralph. Other characters went to the same therapist. It wasn't good as they pretty much treated the therapy scenes as jokes. Ugh

I applaud Superman and Lois writers for this episode. The therapy scenes were really good. Bitsie's acting was was excellent

[cambridgeguy]

7 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Getting intel about how the war on Earth JHI happened, what weapons worked and didn't, and how his planet lost would help inform the best strategy here. (I bet a part of Sam was taking notes like, "OK, so synthetic k gas didn't cut the grade, but that kryptonite spear apparently does the job. Let's see if we can fast-track some more of those. Or combine them so there's a spear that gives off the gas to soften them up.")

If we're being generous we can take Sam at his word about the gas being a non-lethal way to soften them up (the same way it was used in BvS) but the spear remains a dubious idea.  If you're going for the kill then just load a gun with kryptonite bullets and fire away.  Only a Batman would bother with a hand to hand weapon as his primary choice.

[arc]

In the real world, inhaling toxic/radioactive particles is debilitating… but I thought it was usually fatal, not something you get over after a little while.

it’s also a little weird that X-Kryptonite powered people are weakened by green K but I could probably buy that if they have similar powers to Superman that work the same way, then green K similarly disrupts them.

This show does not do a lot of red herrings, so I guess the X-K people are possessed by Kryptonians, just like Superman said? Wait, but how does Tag fit in then? He’s got powers and he’s still Tag from Smallville.

[ukgirl71]

A few random thoughts on another brilliant episode:

No football for a while then?  Thank goodness!  
While it was fun to see geeky dad Kyle, and Inde has a sweet singing voice, the whole “theatre try-out” storyline kinda bored me.  It would have been nice to use that time to see Jordan actually supporting his brother for a change.  
Why was Lesley Larr stirring the proverbial - is she motivated purely by suspicions of Lana, or something else entirely?
I thought it was actually a bit strange to see Jordan so obviously (largely) sidelined in this episode, after the weight of focus there’s been on him til now.  But, it was great to see “the humans” team up, and Jordan Elsass did a superb job with his storyline - wishing he’d met altNatalie shows his big heart, and his little face when Lois was chewing him out broke my heart.  I’m so glad they had their heart to heart at the end.
I wonder did evil Supes make it to this Earth, or was he Crisis-ed out of existence?  And what was Rosetti’s mission in the DoD?  So many questions, so little time!
I loved the lethal RV scene, and Clark making it just in time (9 seconds by my reckoning): and how they melded Lois’s “are you Ok” into “are you out of your mind.”  Just like Lois and Clark are very “real” (acknowledging pain, but knowing when to back off), Lois’s anger/fear at Jon felt incredibly authentic, and made me catch my breath.  Bitsie acted her socks off in that scene, and with her therapist about the miscarriage.   Major kudos to the writer(s) of her dialogue there too.  Lois’s outpouring of emotion was all the more remarkable when you saw how controlled she was witnessing her husband at the wrong end of a Kryptonite spear, only breaking when she had to.

 

 

[tennisgurl]

What a great episode, it really continues to show why this show one of the best things the CW has going on now. It has plenty of superhero tropes and action but is also always grounded in a very human reality when it comes to family and the relationships between people. The show has a real maturity that is rarely seen in Arrowverse shows, even ones that I have really loved, characters have very real reactions to both superhero and real world problems and handle problems in mature and understandable ways. This is especially highlighted with Lois and Clark and their relationship with each other and their sons. They make mistakes, especially while navigating being the parents of two teens, one of whom has powers, and they try their best to be the best parents they can do and are always working on their parenting. Even when it comes to their relationship, they argue or disagree with each other sometimes, but its obvious how much they love each other and they handle even disagreements with a shocking about of maturity and mutual respect. No stupid secrets, no contrived misunderstandings, no storming off in a huff over any minor slight, they have clearly been in a loving partnership for years now and understand and trust each other no matter what. Like when Lois and Clark were talking to Jonathan about his recklessness, Clark clearly thought that Lois went too far with Jonathan, but he waited until he was gone to bring it up, and he voiced his concerns very calmly and she listened to him and they had a very adult talk about how to handle the situation and what was going on with Lois. 

It was great to see an episode focused around Lois, and it was amazing to see a character on TV actually get therapy and have it be shown pretty realistically. Bitsie Tulloch was so great throughout the whole episode, the backstory of her having a miscarriage and that unborn baby being named Natalie like her alternate self's daughter was such a heartbreaker. Putting her in the spotlight was a great choice, using Irons to explore her past tragedy and her fears surrounding her children, as well as what Jonathan is going through, was some excellent writing. Her fight with Jonathan was brutal, some of the things she said were extremely harsh, but its clear that it was coming from a place of fear that she couldn't do anything to protect her son, and her lingering misplaced guilt over the miscarriage. It must have been horrible watching Jon almost being killed and being unable to do anything other than yell for help, its not surprising that she lost it for a minute. Then when she apologized for lashing out and they had a talk about how hard it can be to be a normal human in a family of superheroes, it was just really great moving storytelling. It really is a bit funny watching Lois Lane of all people lecturing someone on snooping around in dangerous places without backup considering that's been her brand for almost a hundred years throughout various media in this franchise. I guess she has learned better now and doesn't want Jon to make the same mistakes that she made, he really is taking after mom. 

I also think some of her harshness is that Lois and Clark aren't really used to having to worry about Jonathan or him getting into trouble, it seems like he has always been such an amenable, easy to get along with kid that him having problems is sort of uncharted parenting territory. Yet another "poor Jon" episode, its always some new crappy thing happening to him. This week he loses football, pretty much his only social outlet and something he has always loved, he is almost killed by some weirdos murder van, he watches a video where his alternate universe mom is murdered by his alternate universe dad, his mom loses it on him, and he continues to feel useless compared to his brother. I know that Clark has a lot going on, but he really needs to check in with Jonathan a bit more to remind him that he is still important to their family even if he cant lift a car with one hand. He just wants so badly to help and feel like he is contributing to his family, but is also still a teenager so he takes that desire to be a good son and brother and makes impulsive choices. I also thought that him looking at pictures of the alternate Natalie was a really touching moment. Her mom isn't the same person as his mom, but they do have a connection. 

Kyle and Lana were finally on the same page being happy that Sarah was going to try out for the musical, but of course it goes to hell. I think Lana is trying to keep Kyle away from Morgan Edge both so that he wont be implicated in any crimes she could uncover that he is committing and because she is worried about the increasingly dangerous vibes she is getting, but while she is trying to look out for him its just causing him to feel even worse. Then he got all upset that Lana went with "your not leadership material" excuse as to why she isn't giving him a fancy new job and got drunk and missed Sarah's audition, crushing Sarah and making everything worse. Kyle can be really hard to like, especially as his alcoholism and bitterness are hurting his family, but I do feel for him. He obviously loves his family, but he has a LOT of issues he needs to work through. 

It seems weird that they are just letting Irons go after he tried to kill Superman several times already, but he has seemingly finally realized that people in alternate Earths are not the same people as the ones from his Earth, which already makes him smarter then quite a few Arrowverse characters at least. If they want him to trust them and see that this Superman is nothing like the one on his Earth, I guess this show of faith is a good idea. I am also really side eyeing General Lane and his arsenal of Kryptonite. I can understand him wanting weapons to evil Kryptonians that could become a threat, or even to incapacitate Superman if he gets brainwashed or something, but the fact that he has so much of it and has never told Clark is very questionable. This isn't just his ally, its his son in law, he should probably know that Sam collecting weapons that can be used against him. 

[Quark]

Great episode. The acting from Bitsie Tulloch and Jordan Elsass was great.

It amuses me that Irons was seconds away from killing Superman and they just...let him go. Maybe all the villains should do that :p.

[norcalgal]

19 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

This episode really encompassed its strengths and why this could be the one CW show that doesn't feel like a CW show, but something even better. Keeping the show mostly grounded in reality while having superheroes involved is a perfect way to approach this show. Instead of superheroes that live on Earth, it feels like humans who happen to also have superpowers, but is still rooted in some sort of realism, if that makes sense. Seeing them deal with real life issues, and also dealing with them in a mature way, is just so rare to see, especially on a CW show. This show really separates itself from the rest of the Arrowverse, in the best way possible. 

I hope this show never loses focus on its strengths: the honesty, the mature conversations, grounding the characters in humanity first, rather than any sort of powers, and the family ties that bond everyone together. That is what will make this show successful in the long run.

 

35 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

What a great episode, it really continues to show why this show one of the best things the CW has going on now. It has plenty of superhero tropes and action but is also always grounded in a very human reality when it comes to family and the relationships between people. The show has a real maturity that is rarely seen in Arrowverse shows, even ones that I have really loved, characters have very real reactions to both superhero and real world problems and handle problems in mature and understandable ways. This is especially highlighted with Lois and Clark and their relationship with each other and their sons. They make mistakes, especially while navigating being the parents of two teens, one of whom has powers, and they try their best to be the best parents they can do and are always working on their parenting. Even when it comes to their relationship, they argue or disagree with each other sometimes, but its obvious how much they love each other and they handle even disagreements with a shocking about of maturity and mutual respect. No stupid secrets, no contrived misunderstandings, no storming off in a huff over any minor slight, they have clearly been in a loving partnership for years now and understand and trust each other no matter what. Like when Lois and Clark were talking to Jonathan about his recklessness, Clark clearly thought that Lois went too far with Jonathan, but he waited until he was gone to bring it up, and he voiced his concerns very calmly and she listened to him and they had a very adult talk about how to handle the situation and what was going on with Lois. 

ITA to alllll the above!!!  Color me surprised how much I'm enjoying this show.  Does anyone know if there will for sure be a Season 2?

Also, didn't Superman ask John Henry Irons how did he get this THIS Earth?  He never answered did he? I think that would be a pretty important thing to know since other folks might use the same method to arrive on this Earth.

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

If we're being generous we can take Sam at his word about the gas being a non-lethal way to soften them up (the same way it was used in BvS) but the spear remains a dubious idea.  If you're going for the kill then just load a gun with kryptonite bullets and fire away.  Only a Batman would bother with a hand to hand weapon as his primary choice.

We recently saw DOD has guns that shoot Kryptonite darts. They were presumably meant to be less than lethal, and Superman was more pissed off by them than anything. 

It would not be surprising if they had Kryptonite guns. But actual Kryptonite generally is in short supply in most Superman shows (with the exception of Smallville where literally it was EVERYWHERE in town). 

31 minutes ago, arc said:

In the real world, inhaling toxic/radioactive particles is debilitating… but I thought it was usually fatal, not something you get over after a little while.

it’s also a little weird that X-Kryptonite powered people are weakened by green K but I could probably buy that if they have similar powers to Superman that work the same way, then green K similarly disrupts them.

This show does not do a lot of red herrings, so I guess the X-K people are possessed by Kryptonians, just like Superman said? Wait, but how does Tag fit in then? He’s got powers and he’s still Tag from Smallville.

The empowering process Edge used is different from how Tag got powers. Edge is specifically trying to "resurrect" Kryptonians (still calling that he is Zod on pure speculation, no spoilers).

Tag seemingly got powers through some interaction between XK and Jordan's heat vision.  

[scarynikki12]

13 minutes ago, norcalgal said:

Does anyone know if there will for sure be a Season 2?

Yep!

[PAForrest]

18 hours ago, kickingnames said:

Oh, my sweet baby Jonathan. I’m half convinced all this could have been avoided if Clark could just recognize that Jonathan needs  his extra care and attention too. Just hug your son, Clark! (Not that one — the other one!)

Jonathan needs ALL the hugs! And I both laughed and felt depressed reading the entire "Shit on Jon Parade", along with its addendums. And I don't understand why none of the kids in that crap high school in this crap town feel the desire to be friends with Jon, who is a great kid and should be super popular. Seriously, Smallville and the kids in it suck.

Honestly, at this point I'm starting to wonder if the story is building up to Edge getting a hold of Jonathan and turning him into a sleeper agent inside the Kent family. Do we know what happens to the humans once they become what I assume are Kryptonian hosts? I mean, that's what's happening, right - not that Edge is trying to turn humans into a supercharged army, but that he's picking and choosing hosts to see which ones can accommodate an alien implant with the use of x-kryptonite? At least, that's the way I'm understanding it from this episode.

Which if that's the case, then what is Tag? He's something different.

Super awkward FiL - SiL bonding time. No Clark, Sam doesn't trust you, he didn't trust you long before JHI showed up, and he'll still take you down if he has to despite what he says. Then again, we knew that from the beginning.

The whole story with Lois and the miscarriage hit really hard because we've been dealing with a family member who just went through this, and I'm not sure this is a storyline I needed to watch right now. Sigh. But Elizabeth did a great job with it, and I'm glad Lois apologized to Jon - like sincerely apologized, and not the way Clark was with the whole lame empty box thing. It felt like someone put Jon first for once in this family, bringing him into Lois's pain in losing the baby, not something she shared with both boys, just Jon.

And I certainly appreciated Lois letting Jon know she understands how useless he's been feeling and that she and he are their own special human team, because that's what the hell I've been waiting for - it's the way it should be since I suspect more and more that Jon isn't going to gain powers. That is, again, unless he's being set up to become one of Edge's alien hosts.

I would think that Jonathan honestly should look at his father a little differently from now on. He saw the video, Jordan didn't. I don't even think Lois saw it, right? It would be perfectly natural for him to be a little leery of Clark for a while, if not from now on. Maybe Jon can bond more with his grandfather too.

Letting JHI go on his merry way didn't seem right, but I suspect he's going to come back to help Superman and the DOD defeat Edge. Obviously his story isn't over.

I wish I could care what's happening with Sarah and her father, but I don't. If Jon doesn't get turned, the next best candidate is Kyle, clearly. He doesn't seem to have a purpose on this show, though as the fire chief he legit has a very important job. And that right there should show him that he knows he has "leadership" abilities. I guess Lana is trying to protect him from Edge, but I can't always tell with her.

I do get sick of Jordan always putting Sarah, his not-girlfriend, ahead of Jon's needs. It was heartbreaking to hear Jon tell his brother, who can't be bothered to answer his texts, that Jordan is the only person he has to talk to, his only "friend". Life continues to blow for Jonathan Kent.

At least Jordan was mostly put on the back burner this episode. Yay.

[Proteus]

Just stopping in to say that Bitsie Tulloch was amazing. I loved her on Grimm, but she's even more amazing here.

[blackwing]

I really enjoyed the fact that we didn’t have to deal with Frodo Jordan and his “issues”.

This is the first time I’ve actually liked Kyle.  His joy and exuberance at the thought of his daughter performing in the musical was great.  It was nice to see him smile as opposed to his normal self.  I also can’t blame him for his subsequent actions.  His wife is supposed to be there for him, and from his perspective, she betrayed him.  She knows how much he wants to be more important to Edge, had the perfect chance, and she (not he) rejected him by not telling him about the program.

Then she further twists the knife by telling him that his idol thinks he’s worthless.  It’s no wonder why he went on a bender.

When the murder RV was counting down, I thought that Jonathan wouldn’t be rescued in time, but that the guns would activate his latent powers.  

[kickingnames]

I totally forgot to mention: during JHI’s reverie when he was not answering Clark’s question about how he got to this earth, it occurred to me that I might actually forgive Iron’s determination to “stop Superman from doing to this earth what he did to mine,” if it turns out that his Supes actual made the trip to this earth with him and is not actually dead. If the doppelgänger confusion is leading to a Superman v. Superman scenario in the finale, that’d be pretty awesome.

[legaleagle53]

If the Emmys ever admitted that sci-fi shows exist, I would nominate this show in every conceivable category just on the strength of this episode alone.  Every single one of the actors turned in such raw, realistic performances that I actually found myself grieving along with Lois and cheering when she and Jonathan finally had their heart-to-heart talk. Was Lois a little extreme in her DEFCON 1 tongue-lashing of Jon? Yes, but given what almost happened and how it brought up feelings about losing her daughter that she'd long kept buried, I could understand and feel exactly what she did as she tore Jon a new one the way she did. My mother would have done exactly the same thing. Heck, I think anyone's mother or father would,  And if Jon needs yet another ally who knows what it's like to live in the shadow of a super-being from another planet, he really needs to get in touch with Alex Danvers. Alex has been exactly where he is now, and she more than anyone other than Lois knows what it is to be in that shadow and to have to put everything constantly on hold for the superpowered sibling's sake.

I also need to comment on Sam's relationship with Clark/Superman. I can tell that underneath that gruff, hardened General there is a man who truly loves his daughter, his grandsons, and yes, even his super son-in-law. I was glad to see him admit that he should have been honest with Clark about those weapons long before now. As he himself said, he knows that trust goes both ways, and he's going to have to work a little to get Clark's (and by extension, Lois and the boys') trust back.

Best episode so far -- I can't wait to see how they're going to top this!

[Feech]

I loved the episode and the show but the tone is really dark.

Its like John Steinbeck wrote a comic book.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, Proteus said:

Just stopping in to say that Bitsie Tulloch was amazing. I loved her on Grimm, but she's even more amazing here.

I noticed on IMDb that she’s going by “Elizabeth” Tulloch now instead of “Bitsie” Tulloch. I haven’t taken time to look for interviews about that choice, but I always thought her role on Grimm was little more than wallpaper, whereas here she shines. 
 

 

5 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

I also need to comment on Sam's relationship with Clark/Superman. I can tell that underneath that gruff, hardened General there is a man who truly loves his daughter, his grandsons, and yes, even his super son-in-law. I was glad to see him admit that he should have been honest with Clark about those weapons long before now. As he himself said, he knows that trust goes both ways, and he's going to have to work a little to get Clark's (and by extension, Lois and the boys') trust back.

The writing for the in-law relationship here has really exploited the symbolism available in the Superman world. 
So, regarding:

5 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

If the Emmys ever admitted that sci-fi shows exist, I would nominate this show in every conceivable category just on the strength of this episode alone.  Every single one of the actors turned in such raw, realistic performances that I actually found myself grieving along with Lois and cheering when she and Jonathan finally had their heart-to-heart talk. Was Lois a little extreme in her DEFCON 1 tongue-lashing of Jon? Yes, but given what almost happened and how it brought up feelings about losing her daughter that she'd long kept buried, I could understand and feel exactly what she did as she tore Jon a new one the way she did. My mother would have done exactly the same thing. Heck, I think anyone's mother or father would,…

—even though the acting is more likely to grab attention at awards time, I think it’s the writing that allows that acting to happen, and would like to see recognition for the writing. Who should get credit for the writing, anyway?

And thanks, @legaleagle53, for inadvertently forgiving me for yelling at my kids 20+ years ago. I still apologize. 

[PAForrest]

7 hours ago, kickingnames said:

I totally forgot to mention: during JHI’s reverie when he was not answering Clark’s question about how he got to this earth, it occurred to me that I might actually forgive Iron’s determination to “stop Superman from doing to this earth what he did to mine,” if it turns out that his Supes actual made the trip to this earth with him and is not actually dead. If the doppelgänger confusion is leading to a Superman v. Superman scenario in the finale, that’d be pretty awesome.

I think that's a real possibility. We see Evil Supes hanging onto whatever it was JHI was traveling in, and I don't think we ever saw him get shaken off. And that's a pretty typical trope, it's what usually happens in zombie shows or other apocalyptic type of scenarios, where the "good guys" are often if not always the ones who inadvertently bring the threat into the happy enclave that was perfectly safe until said "good guys" showed up.

If the Supes from JHI's world made it through and is somewhere on this Earth, where is he and why is he laying low? If that is what happened, then JHI is completely correct, what happened on his Earth is what is about to happen on this one - the irony being that JHI himself is the one who will have caused it to happen.

Edited June 3, 2021 by PAForrest

[miasth]

I found JHI annoying with how he knew they were different people but at the same time he did not.   However, I wish he had found out Lois was married to Superman as I would have loved to see his reaction to his "wife" being married to Superman.

Jon calling alt Natalie sis had me concerned they were going to have everyone else was going to take the same attitude as JHI but thankfully that did not happen. 

Lois reaction to Jon's near death may have come from an unhealthy place but it seemed normal to me from a traumatized parent standpoint.  

Kyle choosing to drink and miss Sara's audition is on him regardless of what Lana said.  A healthy person would not have reacted that way. 

Them just letting JHI go was awfully generous.  They imo should have made him stay around where they could keep tabs on him.  I suspect he will be back though when the stuff hits the fan.

[Cthulhudrew]

Loved it. Great episode. ET was amazing.

Did wonder why Lois didn't tell both Jonathan and Jordan about their sister/the miscarriage at the same time, though. I mean I can kind of understand why (both for dramatic purposes as well as it being Lois' way of connecting with Jonathan about what took place). I just hope that they also told Emo-boy as well off-screen.

[norcalgal]

12 hours ago, Proteus said:

Just stopping in to say that Bitsie Tulloch was amazing. I loved her on Grimm, but she's even more amazing here.

Bitsie is definitely showing me something I didn't see on Grimm.  So it had to be the Juliet character rather than Bitsie that made that role underwhelming...

[cambridgeguy]

On 6/3/2021 at 11:30 AM, Cthulhudrew said:

Did wonder why Lois didn't tell both Jonathan and Jordan about their sister/the miscarriage at the same time, though. I mean I can kind of understand why (both for dramatic purposes as well as it being Lois' way of connecting with Jonathan about what took place). I just hope that they also told Emo-boy as well off-screen.

This is the big weakness of Lois and Clark as parents - they tend to focus on just one kid at a time.  Only Jordan has powers, so obviously Jon doesn't need to go to the Fortress.  Jon was the one she yelled at, so no reason to tell Jordan about the sister they never knew. 

[blackwing]

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

This is the big weakness of Lois and Clark as parents - they tend to focus on just one kid at a time.  Only Jordan has powers, so obviously Jon doesn't need to go to the Fortress.  Jon was the one she yelled at, so no reason to tell Jordan about the sister they never knew. 

I give her a pass on this, I don't think she's saying that one kid is more important than the other.  But I think this was done for artistic license to make for better TV, so that Lois could have her one-on-one with Jonathan and deliver her "we have a bond because we are the two extraordinary humans" talk to him.  I'm sure Jonathan is going to tell Frodo and while I agree that Lois and Clark should have told both of them at the same time about the miscarriage, I think Jonathan so far has gotten the raw end of the deal so I don't mind any special attention given to him.

If there is a scene of angsty Frodo whining about how "she didn't even tell me, she told you" then I think I will have to instantly shut off the TV.

[Nialla]

On 6/2/2021 at 11:06 AM, Primal Slayer said:

The main thing this series is missing is Supergirl mentions. JHI talks about multiple Kryptonians being out there, Superman going evil, but we already have another major Kryptonian, one who is related to Superman out there saving the world. That should be addressed. 

I wonder if they're ignoring Supergirl because that show is ending and they're unsure if they could gather on this show in the future? Just feels weird. It's almost like they're considering a do over to make this show not really part of the Arrowverse, which might not be a bad idea with shows ending and actors parting ways.

You'd think just verbally mentioning her would be okay. JHI mentioned other Kryptonians on (his) earth as if the same was happening here, but no one ever said there's just one other?

Could be fun to have the boys go visit Aunt Kara if the show needs them offscreen for a bit, but we're missing the boys going "Wait... Aunt Kara is Supergirl?!"

Edited June 5, 2021 by Nialla

[legaleagle53]

3 hours ago, Nialla said:

I wonder if they're ignoring Supergirl because that show is ending and they're unsure if they could gather on this show in the future? Just feels weird. It's almost like they're considering a do over to make this show not really part of the Arrowverse, which might not be a bad idea with shows ending and actors parting ways.

You'd think just verbally mentioning her would be okay. JHI mentioned other Kryptonians on (his) earth as if the same was happening here, but no one ever said there's just one other?

Could be fun to have the boys go visit Aunt Kara if the show needs them offscreen for a bit, but we're missing the boys going "Wait... Aunt Kara is Supergirl?!"

And as I've said many times before, Jonathan especially needs to meet Alex Danvers. I see so many parallels between the Kent brothers and the Danvers sisters, and Alex would understand Jonathan's feelings and situation in a way that I don't think even Clark or Lois can, because she knows what it's like to grow in the shadow of a super-sibling and to be constantly ignored and to have to give up so much of her own life for the sake of the super-sibling.

[Lantern7]

Local affiliate elected to show the Nets game, and I didn't make time to watch until tonight.

"Mom and Dad don't want me and Jordan to do anything reckless. But they didn't say anything about really, really, REALLY stupid stuff! Lemme dig through his guy's arsenal and get my ass trapped in the RV from hell!" I know Jonathan had reasons, but most of them were stupid as hell.

Liking how Superman and JHI left things. Of course, they'll probably come to blows by the end of the season. Or he'll find out he trekked to National City because Kara killed the Irons family in one shot on his world. Good thing he didn't go there in the last few years, with with the Krypton and Daxem-fuled plotlines.

[Affogato]

Just want to comment on the Jonathan woobie thing because 'poor sweet jonathan?'

Now 14 years old really is a bad time to move a teenager, and that applies to both of them.

It may have been harder for Jonathan because he had friends, extracurricular activities and a girlfriend that he had to give up for the move. Yeah. It is also pretty reasonable for a 14 year old girl friend to break up with him. We all know she would have eventually. They are kids. But he also had the extremely important years of social activities--play dates, school, youth sports, camp, sleepovers and so on--that help socialize kids. Look at all of the articles about what will happen to children having lost a year during the pandemic.  Also he had success and praise and acclaim for at least his sports accomplishments.

Jordan apparently was unable to participate in much of this. He probably got attention from his very busy parents mostly for going to therapy to talk about what was wrong for him (not seeing him compete and celebrating what was right).

Now Jordan has powers. He's hurt a couple of people, including his brother. He can't go to school. His head almost exploded and he has suffered a lot of pain. He showed some ability in football but had to stop doing it (and he must have bitterly envied Jonathan football). Sure, he is getting on better with Sara, and actually was able to support her with her anxiety about her performance, which is a good thing.  Mostly, though, he is again he is getting attention  for being someone who has something wrong with him. It isn't like he is flying joyfully above the fields while Jonathan toils below. Having intermittent powers that isolate you further and aren't fun--yay.

Yes clearly the family has paid more attention to Jordans issues than Jonathan over the years. Events have not lead them to hunker down and concentrate on his difficulties adjusting to Smallville and some of that is because Jordan has worse problems.  The Kents probably were fairly busy parents too, and let Jonathan raise himself.

Still, on the actual Woobie scale Jordan's life record (including the issues with the powers) still is a lot heavier than Jonathan's side of the scale.

[Nialla]

18 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

And as I've said many times before, Jonathan especially needs to meet Alex Danvers. I see so many parallels between the Kent brothers and the Danvers sisters, and Alex would understand Jonathan's feelings and situation in a way that I don't think even Clark or Lois can, because she knows what it's like to grow in the shadow of a super-sibling and to be constantly ignored and to have to give up so much of her own life for the sake of the super-sibling.

I think we often forget that both of their parents are well known reporters too, so they grew up with high-powered parents even before superpowers were in the mix. It's not been clear how much of the reality of their grandfather's job they knew, but no doubt it would have been enough to add to the pressures of growing up.

Their Aunt Alex would understand growing up "normal" with a superpowered relative. She could also show them there are other ways to help, but I'm sure she would stress the danger to both of them.

I know they're avoiding crossovers for a while due to COVID, but I really wish there would be one Super crossover before the Supergirl cast scatters. The main plot could be the Supes working together, while the boys get to work with Aunt Alex.