S05.E15: Jerry 2.0

[debraran]

I also forgot about Sophie's mom history with Kevin, she was like his second Mom. This article relates a lot of their relationship.

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/this-is-us-who-was-sophies-mom-and-what-ever-happened-to-that-emerald-ring.html/

[MissLucas]

Well, if that emerald ring returns I'll call it the blue flugelhorn.

[madmax]

10 hours ago, circumvent said:

I don't know why, but I wasn't too interested in the episode so can someone clarify: the men were in the Pittsburgh area (were the cabin is) and the women were in LA at Madison's house? 

The men were at the cabin in the Poconos, which is about 4 and a half hours from Pittsburgh and about 2 hours from where Randall lives in Philadelphia.

I don't understand why the cabin is in the Poconos.  I live in Pittsburgh and everyone I know with a cabin/camp are still on this side of the state.  My SIL's is an hour and a half from here.

[kili]

Quote

If they dated or liked each other beforehand, maybe he begged off because she was Kate's friend, but it was the "soapiest" thing TIU ever did with a twist.

I'm still going to argue that Lauren coming back from the dead is soapiest.

Kevin to Randall at Kate's wedding about Madison: "Don't let me sleep with her."

[KaveDweller]

2 hours ago, madmax said:

The men were at the cabin in the Poconos, which is about 4 and a half hours from Pittsburgh and about 2 hours from where Randall lives in Philadelphia.

I don't understand why the cabin is in the Poconos.  I live in Pittsburgh and everyone I know with a cabin/camp are still on this side of the state.  My SIL's is an hour and a half from here.

I think the writers don't understand the geography of Pennsylvania. They had just heard the name "Poconos" and thought it sounded like a good spot for a cabin. This would also explain why they think you can drive from Pittsburgh to New Jersey in about five minutes.

[madmax]

Just now, KaveDweller said:

I think the writers don't understand the geography of Pennsylvania. They had just heard the name "Poconos" and thought it sounded like a good spot for a cabin. This would also explain why they think you can drive from Pittsburgh to New Jersey in about five minutes.

I know Fogelman spent some of his childhood in Pittsburgh, which is why it was set here, but I really wish the writers would use some common sense and google some shit.

[bros402]

On 5/19/2021 at 10:45 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Unpopular opinion: Raisnets are gross. I like chocolate and I like raisins, but I do not like them together.

Ahhh, now the story is that all of Madison's friends are on the East Coast. Hasn't she lived in LA for years?

Wasn't Madison saying that her friend owned the dress shop that she got her & Kate's wedding dresses at?

[watcher1006]

Of all the character interactions shown in this episode I liked the dialogue between Rebecca and Beth the best, and thought that what Rebecca said about feeling like a real vital person because of Beth opening up to her had a true resonance to it.

[Rootbeer]

12 hours ago, madmax said:

The men were at the cabin in the Poconos, which is about 4 and a half hours from Pittsburgh and about 2 hours from where Randall lives in Philadelphia.

I don't understand why the cabin is in the Poconos.  I live in Pittsburgh and everyone I know with a cabin/camp are still on this side of the state.  My SIL's is an hour and a half from here.

More This Is Us weird geography.  Yes, there are literally dozens of places where one can find a cabin in the woods in western PA/NY/Ohio area that are only an hour or two from Pittsburgh and would make much more sense as a get-away destination for a busy young family than trekking 4 hours to the Poconos on the weekends.  This is particularly true in the winter time when those rural roads are treacherous.

Since Fogelman is from Pittsburgh, you'd think he'd have enough respect and affection for the area to get the geography right.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Rootbeer

[CountryGirl]

I finally had a chance to watch and I think Madison might call it off and based on what I’ve seen of their relationship, one of them should.

It’s not because of the lack of romance or sparks or passion (all of which fade or at least, ebb and flow over the years) but because I don’t believe that either of them truly love each other beyond being the mother/father of the twins. Madison said to Kate “I love him” but that was right after she talked about how he had really stepped up where their children were concerned. And more telling, Kevin has never, ever said it to her or about her. Not in 15-18 months' time. Him saying "I'm crazy about her" is not the same thing. At all. And everything we know of Kevin tells us he isn't one to hide or hold back his feelings (I mean, he clearly indicated to Sophie, whom he knew was engaged, that he still held out hope for them, at her mother's funeral. Time and place be damned for Kevin Pearson). 

I think he would absolutely go through with it for his children and the mother of his children and trying to live up to the looming shadow of Jack. But again, I do lean towards Madison calling it off because she saw his face in the video about seeing their future years ahead and it’s obvious he doesn’t think that far. Not with her anyway. And maybe it was an unfair question to ask but I think about when my now-husband asked me to marry him and I saw our future stretching out before us. I still do. Because the future is now, already becoming. And we dated for six years before he proposed so it's not like some whirlwind romance.

I think it’s also that Madison does have this vision of the empty nest future but that she’s always had that vision and it’s only now, with the twins, that she can put a face and a name to the man in the vision. And Kevin being the father of her twins makes him the obvious choice but I think it was only then that she realized not only does SHE not necessarily think he'll be the one to do all those things she's envisioned for years, before she even knew him, but she doesn't even know if he likes all of those things. Despite all of these months together, the fact remains that they don’t even really KNOW each other all that well. I think the look on her face watching the video back was less about Kevin's expression when being asked that question but that warning bells were going off in her head about herself.

The bottom line is that I don’t think someone getting pregnant is  a reason to get married. It’s not enough. It makes zero sense to follow up a surprise with a mistake. Nothing I’ve seen since has convinced me otherwise. So I hope Madison calls it off (because Kevin will be crucified otherwise) and they focus on co-parenting the twins and getting to know one another. And you never know what might happen down the road.

8 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

Of all the character interactions shown in this episode I liked the dialogue between Rebecca and Beth the best, and thought that what Rebecca said about feeling like a real vital person because of Beth opening up to her had a true resonance to it.

My favorite moments from the episode were the interactions (past and present) with Beth and Rebecca. Rebecca is exactly how I would have wanted to be as a MIL (if I weren't CFNBC). And that Beth is treating Rebecca just as she always has. People need to be needed, especially as they get older.

Just beautiful.

[CountryGirl]

I loved that we got a little more backstory with Rebecca and Miguel although with only one episode left this season and only one more season after that, I'm not holding out hope we'll get to see their love story.

But I don't see their story as analogous to Kevin/Madison at all. Rebecca knew Miguel for years, through his friendship with Jack and their friendship with Miguel and first wife, Shelly. Even before their divorce, I felt Miguel had a bit of a crush on Rebecca and carried a torch for her for years. But out of respect for them both, after Jack's death, he remained firmly in the friend zone until he sensed Rebecca was ready to pursue something more. 

[Ohiopirate02]

17 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

I loved that we got a little more backstory with Rebecca and Miguel although with only one episode left this season and only one more season after that, I'm not holding out hope we'll get to see their love story.

But I don't see their story as analogous to Kevin/Madison at all. Rebecca knew Miguel for years, through his friendship with Jack and their friendship with Miguel and first wife, Shelly. Even before their divorce, I felt Miguel had a bit of a crush on Rebecca and carried a torch for her for years. But out of respect for them both, after Jack's death, he remained firmly in the friend zone until he sensed Rebecca was ready to pursue something more. 

I am one of the posters who see similarities with Kevin/Madison and Rebecca/Miguel.  It's more of how the dynamic of the relationship works and not in the actual details.  Kevin has been searching for his "great love" like his parents.  Randall and Beth have that type of relationship.  One full of Pearson speeches, grand gestures and for lack of a better word, rituals.  The dark side to this type of relationship is the husband knows best and makes unilateral decisions.  The Jack/Rebecca marriage is not a partnership, Jack is the one in charge.  Randall and Beth do a bit better, but that is down to Beth having more of a spine and calling out Randall when necessary.  

Rebecca/Miguel reads more like a true partnership where the man respects the woman's opinion.  Miguel gives Rebecca space to make up her own mind instead of plowing on ahead.  Instead of Pearson family monologues, you get an actual conversation where each person is given equal time to express themselves.   Kevin has this type of dynamic with Madison.  The grand gestures don't work on Madison.  She wants honesty, not the façade.  She and Kevin are having the conversations a couple needs to have, conversations that Jack and Rebecca never had, but ones that Rebecca has had with Miguel.  Like Miguel said in this episode, it's a different kind of love, but no less real.  

[Lone Wolf]

On 5/19/2021 at 7:45 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Unpopular opinion: Raisnets are gross. I like chocolate and I like raisins, but I do not like them together.

 

I'm right there with you.  I'll even raise the stakes and say that I'm not a fan of sweet and salty, e.g., Raisinets in popcorn.  Had I been Jack, dating or married to Rebecca, I have bought her her own container of popcorn to add whatever to it she'd have liked.

Otherwise?  Talkiest. Bachelor party. EVER.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Lone Wolf

[qtpye]

On 5/19/2021 at 8:35 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

Broken record here, but Madison creeps me out. She's estranged from her family. Her father pre-emptively has an emergency business thing days/weeks before her wedding?* Not one of her 'friends' can make it out to her wedding shower? She mentioned Kevin being 'polite' about responding to her texts post-one-night-stand, but it didn't seem to me that there was any contact between them afterwards until she turned up pregnant. (Could be wrong about that but that's how I recall it.) Naked Model Guy ghosted her and didn't seem all that eager to defend himself. All that and her mood swings over Kevin and his career, etc., just seem like giant waving red flags to me.

*and has Kevin even met or talked to the man yet?

 

On 5/19/2021 at 10:29 AM, ams1001 said:

If they go the route of one of them backing out, I hope it's Madison, but Kevin realizes he is relieved, and they go on and have a nice party anyway to celebrate maybe not making a huge mistake. That would be a twist on a "lighthearted wedding episode."

They can still raise their kids together and get married later if they really do fall in love. Easier (and cheaper!) than getting married now and ending up unhappy and then divorcing.

I would hate it either way. A traditional stripper would make me extremely uncomfortable (my friend's sister did that the night before her wedding and I was not especially happy about it (not least because it somehow ended up being in my hotel room so I couldn't just leave and go to bed)). But I also have zero artistic ability so painting a nude portrait of some guy in the backyard does not sound fun, either.

I think Kevin might have ghosted Madison if she was not Kate’s best friend or maybe he is just too nice of a guy to ghost?

At first, I found Kate and Madison’s friendship very weird. It would be Madison just gushing about how wonderful Kate was and Kate looking at her strangely.

Now, I find Madison rather sweet. I might know Madison better than I know Sophie.

I am with the camp that Madison will call off the wedding and Kevin will be both disappointed and relieved.

On 5/19/2021 at 11:22 AM, txhorns79 said:

That might work for a more stable couple with older (or no) children, but it would be putting a pretty big burden on Kate to have a part-time job and be a single parent to a toddler with special needs and a newborn for four days a week.

This was me. My husband had to take a job 4 states away and I was had to raise two very small children by myself with a full time job. I also had no family and friends nearby like Kate. We could not move because it was a down market and the house could not be sold.

We made it work because there was no other choice.

Edited May 21, 2021 by qtpye

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, CountryGirl said:

It’s not because of the lack of romance or sparks or passion (all of which fade or at least, ebb and flow over the years) but because I don’t believe that either of them truly love each other beyond being the mother/father of the twins. Madison said to Kate “I love him” but that was right after she talked about how he had really stepped up where their children were concerned. And more telling, Kevin has never, ever said it to her or about her. Not in 15-18 months' time. Him saying "I'm crazy about her" is not the same thing. At all. And everything we know of Kevin tells us he isn't one to hide or hold back his feelings (I mean, he clearly indicated to Sophie, whom he knew was engaged, that he still held out hope for them, at her mother's funeral. Time and place be damned for Kevin Pearson). 

Those are good points about Kevin and his feelings.  I don't think he would have ever chosen Madison to have a relationship with but for the pregnancy.  We know he didn't have anything to do with her after the procreative event.  Which happened immediately after he returned from being with Sophie at her mother's funeral.  He never had interest in her in the past, at Kate's wedding he made a crack about sleeping with her but didn't pursue that, then ended up with Zoe who was also there.  He's been actively not choosing her for some time, and now he wonders how you know who you should marry.  You can't be sure even if it feels very right that it won't stop feeling that way some day, but to start out wondering?  Time to hit pause.  What's the rush? I also think Madison saying to Kate they'd always be friends was some indication of her own doubts. Madison is in a tough spot, she's kind of hit the jackpot with feeling a part of a family, but her connection to Kevin isn't tight. 

 

 

[himela]

Madisson accepting Kevin being with her only because of her being pregnant seems like an insult to me and I want to believe I would never accept it. It is so obvious that the only feelings Kevin has for Madisson is appreciation for giving birth to their kids. Yes they tried to get to know each other but these things need to happen years before deciding to have a kid together, key word being "deciding". Kevin was so desperate to have a kid and a family that he just took the first chance he found. They could still co-parent and still search for significant others who would be really suitable for them. It's not like it's 1950 or something.

[CountryGirl]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I am one of the posters who see similarities with Kevin/Madison and Rebecca/Miguel.  It's more of how the dynamic of the relationship works and not in the actual details.  Kevin has been searching for his "great love" like his parents.  Randall and Beth have that type of relationship.  One full of Pearson speeches, grand gestures and for lack of a better word, rituals.  The dark side to this type of relationship is the husband knows best and makes unilateral decisions.  The Jack/Rebecca marriage is not a partnership, Jack is the one in charge.  Randall and Beth do a bit better, but that is down to Beth having more of a spine and calling out Randall when necessary.  

Rebecca/Miguel reads more like a true partnership where the man respects the woman's opinion.  Miguel gives Rebecca space to make up her own mind instead of plowing on ahead.  Instead of Pearson family monologues, you get an actual conversation where each person is given equal time to express themselves.   Kevin has this type of dynamic with Madison.  The grand gestures don't work on Madison.  She wants honesty, not the façade.  She and Kevin are having the conversations a couple needs to have, conversations that Jack and Rebecca never had, but ones that Rebecca has had with Miguel.  Like Miguel said in this episode, it's a different kind of love, but no less real.  

I have really grown to appreciate the Rebecca/Miguel relationship over the years (I'm still clamoring for their backstory after that FB connection when Tess was born). And I see what you are saying and can hope that Kevin/Madison have what they have. Someday.

But Rebecca and Miguel had a pre-existing (two decades at minimum) relationship) where they got to know each other outside of a dating relationship. They built a bond and a friendship that caught fire years later and knew each other very, very well before anything beyond friendship occurred. Kevin and Madison are so far from that. As I said, they still hardly know each other after all this time. There's no rush. Let things happen...or not. I also think that they need to find a place where they can have separate space to allow them to co-parent but also gain some perspective to learn if this is all about the twins (which right now, I have zero reason to think there's more to it) or if they can have something real and honest and completely separate from the fact that they share children. Time will tell.

[Eureka]

6 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I loved that we got a little more backstory with Rebecca and Miguel although with only one episode left this season and only one more season after that, I'm not holding out hope we'll get to see their love story.

But I don't see their story as analogous to Kevin/Madison at all. Rebecca knew Miguel for years, through his friendship with Jack and their friendship with Miguel and first wife, Shelly. Even before their divorce, I felt Miguel had a bit of a crush on Rebecca and carried a torch for her for years. But out of respect for them both, after Jack's death, he remained firmly in the friend zone until he sensed Rebecca was ready to pursue something more. 

See I think next season when Rebecca has declined and remembers the past more than the present, that’s when we’ll get her story with Miguel. I think it’s going to be through going inside her memories.

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

He's been actively not choosing her for some time

That's true but do we know  that was because he wasn't attracted to her or because she was his sister's best and only friend?

[Cosmocrush]

4 hours ago, himela said:

It's not like it's 1950 or something.

Exactly.  Yet, Kevin choosing to jump "all in" with Madison once he found out she was pregnant felt real to me.   Shortly before that he told Randall he wanted to be married with a family in a years time.   I don't think it mattered all that much to whom. 

Decades ago I asked my Dad how he decided to marry my Mom (yes, in the 1950s) and he said he was graduating college, ready to get married (because that's what you did) and happened  to be dating my Mom at the time.   In other words, first he decided to get married, then he married the obvious, easiest choice.   Btw, I wouldn't recommend that for Kevin; those two have been together over 50 years and bicker and fight every. single. day. ☹️

[chitowngirl]

18 hours ago, bros402 said:

Wasn't Madison saying that her friend owned the dress shop that she got her & Kate's wedding dresses at?

Isn’t Madison a party planner, so that’s why she has “friends” I.e. “contacts”?

[bros402]

On 5/20/2021 at 9:04 PM, madmax said:

The men were at the cabin in the Poconos, which is about 4 and a half hours from Pittsburgh and about 2 hours from where Randall lives in Philadelphia.

I don't understand why the cabin is in the Poconos.  I live in Pittsburgh and everyone I know with a cabin/camp are still on this side of the state.  My SIL's is an hour and a half from here.

Maybe Jack & Rebecca got a great deal on the cabin and maybe they were like "ooh, having it so far away will make it a great treat!"

or maybe Fogelman knew some people growing up who had cabins in the Poconos and were jealous. My great-grandfather had a house in the Poconos, never went to it, though.

[Janie430]

So this is the problem with cutesy time jumps to the future.  They make it hard to adjust to the reality of life.  It's like How I Met Your Mother.  They had to shoot all the scenes with Ted's kids in one year, because the kids couldn't age.  So Ted had to end up with Robin, because they already shot the ending.  

This is Us had three major events that destroyed whatever was the original arc for this season: COVID, George Floyd, Mandy Moore's pregnancy.  I was sure the original arc for this season for Randall/Rebecca was going to involve a lot about the fallout from the clinical trial - but COVID meant that in the real world, clinical trials were shut down and Mandy Moore's pregnancy and COVID restrictions meant she wasn't capable of the type of scenes she would have had to do.  

George Floyd meant that the story that they did on Randall/Kevin skewed heavily on Kevin's racial insensitivity as a child/weaponization of race, and the effects of racism on Randall, instead of delving at all into why the boys were so competitive.  There was no discussion of Randall slamming Kevin's intelligence for thirty years, complete disregard for Kevin's career, and refusal to acknowledge Kevin's real issues.  No real digging into the "good son" dynamic, and Randall's feeling like Kevin and Kate abandoned him by moving to LA.  Nothing about Randall's control issues/anxiety/mental illness not being diagnosed as a teen. 

The derailment was unavoidable, I get that, but I have to admit to being frustrated by it in terms of the Kevin/Randall story, because that one is the most personal to me.  I had issues as a teen, which were really GAD/depression/maybe ADHD, and probably the roots of my OCD.  So I can see myself in Randall, and see a lot of my sister in Kevin.  But I also see a lot of myself in Kevin, and a lot of my sister in Randall. 

So as much as I love that the racism story is getting play because that is so many people's story, I'm sad that the story that resonates with me - the complexities of a sibling relationship dealing with anxiety issues and parental baggage and feeling like the favored/abandoned child - didn't get told.

 

[kili]

Quote

Maybe Jack & Rebecca got a great deal on the cabin and maybe they were like "ooh, having it so far away will make it a great treat!"

That's kind of how it went. Jack comes home and announces they are going on vacation - now:

"New guy in Accounting has a cabin in the Poconos. It's gonna be sitting there empty, so he said we could take it for the whole week."

They ended up borrowing it multiple times, building happy memories. When the "new guy in accounting" wanted to sell it, they bought it. It may have not been the most convenient cabin, but it started off free and they fell in love with it. 

[debraran]

3 hours ago, Janie430 said:

So this is the problem with cutesy time jumps to the future.  They make it hard to adjust to the reality of life.  It's like How I Met Your Mother.  They had to shoot all the scenes with Ted's kids in one year, because the kids couldn't age.  So Ted had to end up with Robin, because they already shot the ending.  

This is Us had three major events that destroyed whatever was the original arc for this season: COVID, George Floyd, Mandy Moore's pregnancy.  I was sure the original arc for this season for Randall/Rebecca was going to involve a lot about the fallout from the clinical trial - but COVID meant that in the real world, clinical trials were shut down and Mandy Moore's pregnancy and COVID restrictions meant she wasn't capable of the type of scenes she would have had to do.  

George Floyd meant that the story that they did on Randall/Kevin skewed heavily on Kevin's racial insensitivity as a child/weaponization of race, and the effects of racism on Randall, instead of delving at all into why the boys were so competitive.  There was no discussion of Randall slamming Kevin's intelligence for thirty years, complete disregard for Kevin's career, and refusal to acknowledge Kevin's real issues.  No real digging into the "good son" dynamic, and Randall's feeling like Kevin and Kate abandoned him by moving to LA.  Nothing about Randall's control issues/anxiety/mental illness not being diagnosed as a teen. 

The derailment was unavoidable, I get that, but I have to admit to being frustrated by it in terms of the Kevin/Randall story, because that one is the most personal to me.  I had issues as a teen, which were really GAD/depression/maybe ADHD, and probably the roots of my OCD.  So I can see myself in Randall, and see a lot of my sister in Kevin.  But I also see a lot of myself in Kevin, and a lot of my sister in Randall. 

So as much as I love that the racism story is getting play because that is so many people's story, I'm sad that the story that resonates with me - the complexities of a sibling relationship dealing with anxiety issues and parental baggage and feeling like the favored/abandoned child - didn't get told.

 

Everyone likes a "sneak peek" on occasion but I am not a fan of flash forwards. I was bored with the accident and baby drama, the dance studio closing etc. I appreciate the good acting as with the Randall/Beth dance, but we already know what happens later. Kevin is successful, kids seem to be fine, Deja is doing well, Jack Jr is married and having a girl Hope. Anything that happens in between is filler. Covid did cause a lot of changes I'm sure. That awful (to me) car episode had to be new and filmed so they could be apart. Dan said he filmed some of the last day of the show in 2018 and they showed them aged but he didn't want to show too many. Who knows who will be pregnant or different weight or hurt in some way. Can you imagine if Justin or someone shown at the end, breaks an arm when filming the rest. How do we not show this when we showed them the same day?

I feel with such a long time between episodes that Alexandra was smart to take the much needed increase in pay and starring role but Dan said they film later scenes sometimes ahead to accommodate. I wonder how they will show the older twins? They looked 10 then in 2018 in future scene. Will they look even close to that in 2021? Maybe new actors to play them? Supposed to be same time frame. 

Edited May 22, 2021 by debraran

[madmax]

12 hours ago, debraran said:

Dan said he filmed some of the last day of the show in 2018 and they showed them aged but he didn't want to show too many. Who knows who will be pregnant or different weight or hurt in some way. Can you imagine if Justin or someone shown at the end, breaks an arm when filming the rest. How do we not show this when we showed them the same day?

I feel with such a long time between episodes that Alexandra was smart to take the much needed increase in pay and starring role but Dan said they film later scenes sometimes ahead to accommodate. I wonder how they will show the older twins? They looked 10 then in 2018 in future scene. Will they look even close to that in 2021? Maybe new actors to play them? Supposed to be same time frame. 

And God forbid, if one of the actors pass away.  What happens then?

I would guess they would have new kids.  Kids age way too fast, even in just a couple years.  Look at the three kids that played the big three at 8-9 year olds.  Even Annie has really grown up, the little we see of her.

[Jeddah]

58 minutes ago, madmax said:

And God forbid, if one of the actors pass away.  What happens then?

The West Wing came very close to having this happen when John Spencer died in the middle of the season. It was just an eerie coincidence that everyone but his character had been shown in a flash forward. I don’t know what the writers would have done if they had shown him in the future already. It was such a sad situation.

[qtpye]

14 hours ago, debraran said:

Everyone likes a "sneak peek" on occasion but I am not a fan of flash forwards. I was bored with the accident and baby drama, the dance studio closing etc. I appreciate the good acting as with the Randall/Beth dance, but we already know what happens later. Kevin is successful, kids seem to be fine, Deja is doing well, Jack Jr is married and having a girl Hope. Anything that happens in between is filler. Covid did cause a lot of changes I'm sure. That awful (to me) car episode had to be new and filmed so they could be apart. Dan said he filmed some of the last day of the show in 2018 and they showed them aged but he didn't want to show too many. Who knows who will be pregnant or different weight or hurt in some way. Can you imagine if Justin or someone shown at the end, breaks an arm when filming the rest. How do we not show this when we showed them the same day?

I feel with such a long time between episodes that Alexandra was smart to take the much needed increase in pay and starring role but Dan said they film later scenes sometimes ahead to accommodate. I wonder how they will show the older twins? They looked 10 then in 2018 in future scene. Will they look even close to that in 2021? Maybe new actors to play them? Supposed to be same time frame. 

Yes, the flash-forwards have really ruined a lot of the show for me. I knew Kevin was going to be fine in the car crash episodes and that his kids are going to be okay.

Also, the new storylines about the dance studio closing and Kevin losing his reputation in Hollywood are also messed up because we saw Beth teaching in a large studio and Kevin building a palatial home near the cabin. Again, both their financial futures look good.

I know baby Jack grows up to be successful and have a beautiful family of his own. We were shown Deja being a doctor and that Tess becomes a social worker.

Heck, even Nicky is looking solid and healthy in the future.

Honestly, these reveals should have been saved for the final season or at least, the series finale.

 

[bros402]

15 hours ago, kili said:

That's kind of how it went. Jack comes home and announces they are going on vacation - now:

"New guy in Accounting has a cabin in the Poconos. It's gonna be sitting there empty, so he said we could take it for the whole week."

They ended up borrowing it multiple times, building happy memories. When the "new guy in accounting" wanted to sell it, they bought it. It may have not been the most convenient cabin, but it started off free and they fell in love with it. 

ahhhh, right.

 

 

3 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Yes, the flash-forwards have really ruined a lot of the show for me. I knew Kevin was going to be fine in the car crash episodes and that his kids are going to be okay.

Also, the new storylines about the dance studio closing and Kevin losing his reputation in Hollywood are also messed up because we saw Beth teaching in a large studio and Kevin building a palatial home near the cabin. Again, both their financial futures look good.

I know baby Jack grows up to be successful and have a beautiful family of his own. We were shown Deja being a doctor and that Tess becomes a social worker.

Heck, even Nicky is looking solid and healthy in the future.

Honestly, these reveals should have been saved for the final season or at least, the series finale.

 

We don't know how Kevin got the money for a palatial home. He could've invested in bitcoin!

[qtpye]

4 minutes ago, bros402 said:

ahhhh, right.

 

 

We don't know how Kevin got the money for a palatial home. He could've invested in bitcoin!

Perhaps he creates his own cryptocurrency and names it Pearson Coin. Pearson Coin will never go down because it is too special to ever lose value. Randall is the behind-the-scenes financial wizard who makes it happen and Kevin is the marketing face.

The money will forever fund the Pearsons for generations and allow them to go off and do their special snowflake projects whenever the mood hits.

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, Janie430 said:

So as much as I love that the racism story is getting play because that is so many people's story, I'm sad that the story that resonates with me - the complexities of a sibling relationship dealing with anxiety issues and parental baggage and feeling like the favored/abandoned child - didn't get told.

In terms of this season's treatment of Randall's racial identity, that needed to be addressed regardless of George Floyd; in my view, if anything had been tiptoed around, it was that. We know quite a bit about his anxiety and Kevin's feelings of being passed over, throughout the series. I think all that ground has been plowed pretty well, and it's maybe part of the reason my interest in the show has dropped off. I hope to see fresh stories told or finished -- Rebecca and Miguel's early days, things about Nicky such as what happened right after he returned from Vietnam, his parents wouldn't have been notified he was dead because he wasn't, what turned Jack and Nicky's father from being pretty loving at the time of Nicky's birth to what he became, how/what is Cassidy doing, dropped threads like that. From the future scenes, we know the brothers are on good terms, everyone's pretty much okay, except Miguel and Kate (and I think she's alive and well because who else would the kids be riding with if they're not with Tobias).

[debraran]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

In terms of this season's treatment of Randall's racial identity, that needed to be addressed regardless of George Floyd; in my view, if anything had been tiptoed around, it was that. We know quite a bit about his anxiety and Kevin's feelings of being passed over, throughout the series. I think all that ground has been plowed pretty well, and it's maybe part of the reason my interest in the show has dropped off. I hope to see fresh stories told or finished -- Rebecca and Miguel's early days, things about Nicky such as what happened right after he returned from Vietnam, his parents wouldn't have been notified he was dead because he wasn't, what turned Jack and Nicky's father from being pretty loving at the time of Nicky's birth to what he became, how/what is Cassidy doing, dropped threads like that. From the future scenes, we know the brothers are on good terms, everyone's pretty much okay, except Miguel and Kate (and I think she's alive and well because who else would the kids be riding with if they're not with Tobias).

Dan's response to showing the future cast as mentioned in another post is pretty easy to understand. Too much can change. Kate to me would never be shown and I don't think she's dead, she is part of the main cast and I feel she always had them slightly off kilter with her weight. If they showed her in 2018, aged but the weight she is now, then she lost before 2021, (and who would say "You can't!")it would look odd. Scene by bed one weight, scene later another. I would hope there would be some mystery. Except for Miguel, because God forbid they don't have a Jack spirit at Rebecca's death, might seem weird. I hope they don't do that because Miguel deserves respect as her husband also and they are both dead, showing just one is odd. I just hope no Titanic type of dribble. Keep it more of a drama than soap.

I agree, re Floyd, Randall's upbringing was odd. Except for the martial arts episode and a slight look in his world as a black teen/child in a white suburb, no mention was ever made about his color. We saw things but he never talked about it with his siblings or parents. So odd. When he said he watched the death of Jonny Gammage on the news alone, I thought how sad. He was a George Floyd before cameras and no witness's or recounts mattered, everyone got off. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Jonny_Gammage

There were so many dynamics never discussed, race, possible learning disabilities, Kyle, etc. We would need another season but they could have cut out some of the more fluffier filler episodes. I've learned this myself more than once, that just because you don't talk about something, doesn't mean it isn't there. When you do mention as Kevin did in his therapy, denial and defense mechanisms come up. We are all human, it's okay to say, this was good, this wasn't but overall we all try. No family will ever be perfect.

Edited May 23, 2021 by debraran

[ams1001]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

I know baby Jack grows up to be successful and have a beautiful family of his own. We were shown Deja being a doctor and that Tess becomes a social worker.

Yet still the only thing we know of Annie in the future is...she has a driver's license and possibly her own car..?

 

[Jeddah]

2 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Yet still the only thing we know of Annie in the future is...she has a driver's license and possibly her own car..?

 

That’s more than we know about Annie now!

[Marley]

Another reason Madison sucks to me is it’s obvious why she is getting all this time on the show. Her husband created the show so to me he is forcing her on us. She’s a bad actress too.

[shoovenbooty]

I hope we find out that the real reason Madison has no family, friends, or discernable job is because she is a CIA agent. I know it's a longshot (but is it?? I mean, Laurel came back to life and stuff!), but I think it would make her, and the show, far more interesting! 😁

[qtpye]

8 minutes ago, shoovenbooty said:

I hope we find out that the real reason Madison has no family, friends, or discernable job is because she is a CIA agent. I know it's a longshot (but is it?? I mean, Laurel came back to life and stuff!), but I think it would make her, and the show, far more interesting! 😁

Perhaps a Russian spy like Kerri Russell on the Americans?😏

[debbie311]

I was also on edge thinking that Rebecca was going to wander off, or end up at the wrong house.  I don't know a lot about Alzheimers, but I was surprised that she was allowed to leave the party on her own and also went home to an empty house.  Is that realistic?  I mean, I know they said her meds were currently working, blah blah blah, but sometimes meds work until they don't.  I'm like Miguel, I would have been extremely nervous leaving her.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, debbie311 said:

I was also on edge thinking that Rebecca was going to wander off, or end up at the wrong house.  I don't know a lot about Alzheimers, but I was surprised that she was allowed to leave the party on her own and also went home to an empty house.  Is that realistic?  I mean, I know they said her meds were currently working, blah blah blah, but sometimes meds work until they don't.  I'm like Miguel, I would have been extremely nervous leaving her.

I wonder why she didn't just stay with Kate while Toby and Miguel were away. I'm sure Kate could have used Rebecca's help to deal with a blind toddler and an infant, and she could have also kept an eye on Rebecca and gotten help if she'd noticed something wrong. If I'd been Kate, I'd have insisted on it.

Edited May 24, 2021 by chocolatine

[ShadowFacts]

21 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I wonder why she didn't just stay with Kate while Toby and Miguel were away. I'm sure Kate could have used Rebecca's help to deal with a blind toddler and an infant, and she could have also kept an eye on Rebecca and gotten help if she'd noticed something wrong. If I'd been Kate, I'd have insisted on it.

Absolutely.  I thought that was a blunder.  Or Rebecca could have had Beth and the girls stay with her.  At the very least, Beth could have seen to it she got home safely before continuing on to her hotel.  Even the bit about standing outside talking on the phone with Miguel, looking up at the stars without being aware of her surroundings, I thought sure something untoward would happen.  Nobody walking around at night alone needs to be that nonchalant, Alzheimer's aside.

[Dowel Jones]

8 hours ago, qtpye said:

Perhaps a Russian spy like Kerri Russell on the Americans?😏

Maybe she's N13.

[bros402]

23 hours ago, qtpye said:

Perhaps he creates his own cryptocurrency and names it Pearson Coin. Pearson Coin will never go down because it is too special to ever lose value. Randall is the behind-the-scenes financial wizard who makes it happen and Kevin is the marketing face.

The money will forever fund the Pearsons for generations and allow them to go off and do their special snowflake projects whenever the mood hits.

He creates it after creating AnnieCoin after falling off the wagon, but he forgets about it and makes PearsonCoin, which is propagated through miners that spread shirtless photos of Kevin, with an occasional shirtless photo of Randall.

[qtpye]

7 minutes ago, bros402 said:

He creates it after creating AnnieCoin after falling off the wagon, but he forgets about it and makes PearsonCoin, which is propagated through miners that spread shirtless photos of Kevin, with an occasional shirtless photo of Randall.

Seems like a home run to me.

There will also be pictures of Jesus with Jesus's face cropped out for Jack Sr's since he is the true king of men.

[MissLucas]

Those sound all like fab ideas but IIRC some eagle eyed folks spied Academy Awards on the shelves of the up-cycled cabin. So he either gets his artistic break-through as actor or he turns to directing or producing. Alternatively those are Annie's and he's her manager 😁

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by MissLucas

[Dreamboat Annie]

I was reasonably convinced the episode before this one but now after this episode I am very convinced that it will be Madison who stops the wedding (because of the ending).  The show won't do that to a Pearson.  Kevin will remain the upstanding man who was ready and willing "to do the right thing" and marry the mother of his children.  I like Kevin and Madison together but would prefer to see them fall in love and get married for that reason, not because they feel they have to.  

I really liked Sophie at first* but not anymore.  Sophie is about Sophie.  Kevin has bared the brunt of the blame for their split because he cheated on her.  In this episode young Sophie appeared very selfish imo.  She just wanted Kevin home to support her and her dreams and completely abandon his.  He spoke of returning to Los Angeles because that's where you have to be if you want to audition** and she seemed both surprised and angry.  She was not supportive at all.  It's understandable she'd want to stay and finish school but school doesn't last forever.  Many couples endure both short and long separations for school and work and many couples relocate for various reasons, and of course everyone knows there are no nursing jobs in California... .  I don't know if the possibility of relocating came up but she didn't seem like she'd be on board with that.  The problems for them were there long before Kevin cheated (no, I'm not condoning cheating).  

There was no need for her to call Kevin to "congratulate" him.  She seems to enjoy the attention she gets from Kevin and has no problem leading him on.  She did it at her mother's funeral and it looks like that's what she's doing now.  She knows how he feels about her.  "One call from me and we'll see if he goes through with this wedding."  To make sure he's interested, make him concerned for you by being coyly mysterious about your phone number change - seems obvious to me it's because "Grant" was abusive and she just had no choice.  Pull the damsel-in-distress stunt and Kevin will rush to your side, Sophie!  

The music throughout the entire episode was not upbeat, despite an upcoming wedding and bach/elorette parties.  I thought it was actually ominous sounding.

 

*  A very touching scene was when 10 year old Kevin said so earnestly "I love her" about Sophie, which has always made me feel they are endgame.

**  I know, New York is closer, but that's not where Kevin's dreams were.  And nor were they on the stage of the community theatre near where Kevin and Sophie lived, lol.  

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

Those sound all like fab ideas but IIRC some eagle eyed folks spied Academy Awards on the shelves of the up-cycled cabin. So he either gets his artistic break-through as actor or he turns to directing or producing. Alternatively those are Annie's and he's her manager 😁

 

Perhaps Kevin writes a screenplay called, "Jack Pearson...the Man, the Myth, the Legend".

He then runs workshops for men on how "You too...can be like Jack".

My speculation for the series finale is that Rebecca dies after living a great life (seriously, this gal got TWO amazing loves when many people do not even get one).

Then we will get some sort of screen wipe showing young Rebecca and Jack looking fondly at Jack Jr. and his new family.

We will also get to see the Big three with their families in proper old age make up.

This will probably be enough to get the waterworks running for me.

[Good Queen Jane]

Oh, I have no doubt that the series finale will end with young Rebecca walking off hand in hand with young Jack. the only question I have is whether Miguel be holding Rebecca's other hand (assuming that he dies before her).

[debraran]

56 minutes ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Oh, I have no doubt that the series finale will end with young Rebecca walking off hand in hand with young Jack. the only question I have is whether Miguel be holding Rebecca's other hand (assuming that he dies before her).

That's why I don't want that. It's insulting since they made her remarry and she loves Miguel. I find that beyond corny and hope they do something original but I agree with you, I could see it clearly. Miguel was always an afterthought, someone to use as a prop and if they keep showing him more respect as they are starting to do, I would really feel that was a slap to have her be alone with Jack. Maybe they wont kill him off but the shoulder rub last year I thought was odd....unless Jon Huertas had an itch. ; )

Edited May 24, 2021 by debraran

[chabelisaywow]

I didn’t know Madison’s relationship to TPTB for the show. Lol she really can’t act - but for me, I think I don’t like her character because of how she was introduced.

How rattled is your brain to attend OA meetings to make yourself feel better? I can’t remember if she says she has body dysmorphia. I remember Toby clowning her.

I don’t know about Miguel and Rebecca - isn’t Nicky at her side in the flash forward? 

[debraran]

1 hour ago, chabelisaywow said:

I didn’t know Madison’s relationship to TPTB for the show. Lol she really can’t act - but for me, I think I don’t like her character because of how she was introduced.

How rattled is your brain to attend OA meetings to make yourself feel better? I can’t remember if she says she has body dysmorphia. I remember Toby clowning her.

I don’t know about Miguel and Rebecca - isn’t Nicky at her side in the flash forward? 

I think Nicky is just there to be there as everyone is. Birthday, she's dying, whatever it is, they are all gathering. He probably lives at the cabin.

I think Madison was bulimic or anorexic and it is an eating disorder. When I googled it then, they did say OA would welcome them (but maybe not by all members)

I think it's tacky to have your wife get a starring role on the show, I'm sure there were other people who could have been more desirable with Kevin but it is his wife. I assume a blind spot. OR he never intended her to be with him but it's still strange.

Edited May 25, 2021 by debraran