S05.E15: Jerry 2.0

[madmax]

3 hours ago, nixgirl28 said:

How did Toby and Kate afford a cross country flight for a the bachelor party as well as Kate throwing the bachelorette party? 

Kate and Toby live in LA, so only Toby had to fly.  Kevin chartered a jet for everybody except Randall, who could drive to the Poconos from Philly.

[ams1001]

4 minutes ago, madmax said:

Kate and Toby live in LA, so only Toby had to fly.  Kevin chartered a jet for everybody except Randall, who could drive to the Poconos from Philly.

That's right; I forgot about the plane melon!

Now I want cantaloupe.

 

[izabella]

3 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

Just because Toby didn’t talk to Kate before looking into the SF job doesn’t mean he won’t talk to her before accepting it. Given how much they fight, maybe he wants to see if a big discussion is even necessary first.

It's also helpful for Toby to be able to tell other companies he is interviewing with that he got an offer elsewhere, or where else he is interviewing.   Whether he takes the job or not, it's good to go through the process.  He can always turn it down in the end, if it won't work out. 

He can tell Kate about it as soon as he sees her next, or when he's had an interview and might go for a second.

Edited May 20, 2021 by izabella

[nixgirl28]

23 minutes ago, madmax said:

Kate and Toby live in LA, so only Toby had to fly.  Kevin chartered a jet for everybody except Randall, who could drive to the Poconos from Philly.

Ok, my antenna was a little fuzzy at some points, I missed that Kevin chartered a plane for the group. It was bugging me the whole episode, how stressed Toby was about the job thing, yet he still flew out there. Makes a lot more sense now, thanks!

[Aloeonatable]

10 hours ago, CleoCaesar said:

Toby/Tobias made a good point about the ending of Jerry Maguire - Jerry and Dorothy break up (for a valid reason; he's just not that into her) and then abruptly get back together without resolving any of their issues. He has a big night professionally and realizes that he wants a relationship like his friend/client's, and runs to tell Dorothy she completes him. It comes absolutely out of nowhere because we're never shown how she does that. It's a happy ending on only the most superficial level.

Kevin and Sophie's movie was Good Will Hunting (as referenced last season). It ends with Will having worked through the issues that held him back in relationships/career/life in general (via his therapy sessions and the "It's not your fault" breakthrough) and then leaving for California to "see about a girl." It's a much more hopeful and promising ending for the couple than Jerry Maguire.

Sophie is Kevin's endgame, IMO, even if his wedding and marriage to Madison takes place. And since we're talking movie metaphors, I think the show will pull a Definitely, Maybe, i.e. the person you marry and have kids with is not necessarily the person you will grow old with.

Kevin's and Sophie's movie was The Princess Bride, not Good Will Hunting.

[nixgirl28]

53 minutes ago, greekmom said:

Sorry this has been bothering me all day. I don't get the "look" that Kate and Madison got from Kevin.

You can't compare young Kevin and 40 year old Kev.

Of course when you are young you make those types of plans.  Get married at 25. Career goals at 28. Kids at 30. Then grow old.  But at 40 not many do that even when the marry. It's his second marriage.  He would just be hoping (given the circumstances) that it's going to work out.  Plus there's the pandemic to factor it.  Most people are just living day by day hoping to make it to the other side given the circumstances. 

I give Kevin a HUGE pass on that question.  It was a shitty question.

Yeah, shouldn't newlywed game style questions be more like "who leaves their socks on the bedroom floor?" or "who's more likely to get a speeding ticket?"? It just seemed too much for a silly bachelorette game.

[ams1001]

2 minutes ago, Aloeonatable said:

Kevin's and Sophie's movie was The Princess Bride, not Good Will Hunting.

GWH was the movie they went to see the night Jack died, but the projector broke and they didn't get to see the end, and promised never to watch it in case the real end wasn't as good as the imagined endings they came up with. They watched the end after her mom's funeral.

 

2 minutes ago, nixgirl28 said:

Yeah, shouldn't newlywed game style questions be more like "who leaves their socks on the bedroom floor?" or "who's more likely to get a speeding ticket?"? It just seemed too much for a silly bachelorette game.

Yeah, why would you ask big questions about your visions of the future for something like that? I knew it wouldn't end well.

[BuckeyeLou]

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but I read that Milo Ventimiglia(sp?) directed this episode, I thought the scenes of the guys around the fire pit and of the women at their party were well-done.

[t7686]

I was team Sophie way back in the beginning but I really like Madison now and I hope they end up getting married. I think it’s cool to show Kevin not getting the Jack Pearson marriage and that it’s still ok. He can be Miguel and be just as happy. Plus after all this build up, showing Madison click with his family and not going through with it? Ugh. Plus, wasn’t Sophie Kate’s best friend too? Not cool to do it again, Kevin. 
 

as an aside, I think it’s funny that Randall called Toby Tobias. I think it’s just to show affection.

[chocolatine]

5 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Not even everyone on this show has friends.

Randall has even said that Madison is the only friend anyone in the family has.

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

I give Kevin a HUGE pass on that question.  It was a shitty question.

I find that game stupid in general. Not everyone thinks quickly on their feet, especially when there's pressure to show how well you know your partner.

1 hour ago, izabella said:

He can tell Kate about it as soon as he sees her next, or when he's had an interview and might go for a second.

Exactly. He said he'd only talked to a recruiter, which is usually the very first step in the process. It's only when he's passed the tech screening and/or the first hiring manager interview that he'll have a real chance of getting the job.

1 hour ago, nixgirl28 said:

Ok, my antenna was a little fuzzy at some points, I missed that Kevin chartered a plane for the group. It was bugging me the whole episode, how stressed Toby was about the job thing, yet he still flew out there. Makes a lot more sense now, thanks!

Last episode it was Kevin who was stressed that he might never work again because his movie with DeNiro turned out so badly, but now he's apparently OK with splurging. He could have gotten four commercial first class tickets, which would have still been a nice way to travel, but much cheaper.

1 hour ago, BuckeyeLou said:

I dont know if this has been mentioned yet, but I read that Milo Ventimiglia(sp?) directed this episode, I thought the scenes of the guys around the fire pit and of the women at their party were well-done.

I guess that's the show's way of keeping him involved, since there's only so many Jack flashbacks they can have.

Edited May 20, 2021 by chocolatine

[30 Helens]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I find that game stupid in general. Not everyone thinks quickly on their feet, especially when there's pressure to show how well you know your partner.

When the game started, I said out loud, “Ooh, that’s a risky game. What if he doesn’t know anything about her?” Turned out, he actually didn’t know anything about himself, and only started to realize some truths midway through. Even worse.

Moral of the story: Don’t have Kate plan your bachelorette party. 

[maggiemae]

I have never seen chemistry between Kevin and Madison.

Kevin needs to step up and not marry her but co-parent and help support her.

Never a good idea to get married and hope for the best. It is ignorant and damaging, I know.

 

 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

 

On 5/19/2021 at 9:13 PM, greekmom said:

Sorry this has been bothering me all day. I don't get the "look" that Kate and Madison got from Kevin.

On 5/19/2021 at 5:55 PM, 30 Helens said:

I think she also saw in his brief far-away look that he was still having those dreams. Madison also saw that brief look and realized that he was feeling something he didn’t want to share. 

I think that Kate realized that Kevin couldn't give a serious answer to the question about his future with Madison because he doesn't feel about her the way he did about Sophie - that's why she asked Madison if she was really happy with him.  And upon rewatching the video, Madison realized that Kevin has never contemplated growing old with her because he isn't actually in love with her.

On 5/19/2021 at 11:38 PM, t7686 said:

I was team Sophie way back in the beginning but I really like Madison now and I hope they end up getting married. I think it’s cool to show Kevin not getting the Jack Pearson marriage and that it’s still ok. He can be Miguel and be just as happy.

Except that unlike Kevin and Madison, Miguel had probably in love with Rebecca for a long time before he married her.  He wasn't settling.

On 5/19/2021 at 11:38 PM, t7686 said:

as an aside, I think it’s funny that Randall called Toby Tobias. I think it’s just to show affection.

I agree.

Edited May 21, 2021 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/19/2021 at 1:54 AM, kili said:

I hope Nicky finds Sally.

I'm assuming he does and that that explains the wedding band he was wearing in the flash forward to Rebecca's deathbed.

23 hours ago, Marley said:

I bet Sophie changed her number because something abusive happened with her ex.

I agree.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, nixgirl28 said:

How did Toby and Kate afford a cross country flight for a the bachelor party as well as Kate throwing the bachelorette party? 

 

9 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Maybe Kevin bought the tickets?

 

3 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Last episode it was Kevin who was stressed that he might never work again because his movie with DeNiro turned out so badly, but now he's apparently OK with splurging. He could have gotten four commercial first class tickets, which would have still been a nice way to travel, but much cheaper.

Randall said that Kevin et al took a private jet. I was imagining the potential fight that Toby had with him about that after he made it clear that he didn't like Kevin ordering sushi or offering to buy their new baby that fancy crib.

In Kevin's defense, I am nowhere near a millionaire but I have been able to find some cheap tickets on charter planes. A few years ago, I was trying to find a flight to Las Vegas. Normally there are tons of flights but the weekend that I was planning to go it looked like everything was booked. I ended up finding tickets on a private jet that were cheaper than a flight on Southwest. I didn't rent out the entire plane, but it was still considered a private jet (and yes, they had some nice snacks!). I just googled flights from LA to PA and first class/business tickets on American Airlines range in price from $1100 to $3156 depending on the time of day, the number of stopovers, etc.. Since Kevin, Toby, Miguel, and Nicky all flew out, I can see Kevin deciding that it was worth it to spend the money to get a private jet instead of spending $5K-$15K to fly commercial.

16 hours ago, ams1001 said:

Don't they also have an instructor-type person to walk you through the painting?

Probably not as unpopular as you think. I never liked them much, either. Definitely don't want them in my popcorn (though chocolate popcorn sounds good).

Yes, those types of drink and paint parties come with an instructor to help guide you through the process. Even so, my naked Joe still would have been a stick figure. I have absolutely no artistic ability at all!

Chocolate popcorn is delicious! I've never bothered trying melting M&Ms in hot popcorn though. I just buy the zebra stripe by Popcornopolis at CostCo because I'm lazy.

[bybrandy]

16 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Ahhh, now the story is that all of Madison's friends are on the East Coast. Hasn't she lived in LA for years?

I think the story is she doesn't have close female friends and said the east coast thing to cover because she feels like she should have friends.   I think at the end what she tells Kate is closer to that truth that girlriends is something she's not good at as seen by the guest list.   Kate is Madison's friend and people like to make that out as weird but in this universe 1 character 1 has two friends with whom they are not yet sleeping.  Kate has Maddison and Timothy Omundson.   She's the only character on the show with multiple friends.  That's it.  The whole shebang.   

Madison doesn't have east coast friends.  She doesn't have west coast friends.  She has Kate which makes breaking up with Kevin a really hard choice even if she knows rewatching that video that Kevin has never really considered their life beyond the twins.  

But I'm not 100% convinced that next week he's going to go to Sophie.  I think he might actually give his life with Maddison outside of the twins some thought.  In my mind it could go either way.  It is the same as the ending last week.  He's all there wishing he could change the channel after Maddison falls asleep on the couch but he didn't even try telling her what he needed after she made the plea for bake off.   Also he apparently didn't invest in voice remote technology which would have solved the whole problem.

[bybrandy]

17 hours ago, madmax said:

Kate took a job without consulting him, assuming he would just be a SAHD.  Not quite the same, but damn close.

In fairness I don't think Kate expected him to be a SAHD forever just for the short time peridod she imagined he'd be looking for work.  Once Toby is working they can afford to pay for a nanny/day care.  Yes, that would absolutely eat all of Kate's salary but they've never needed Kate's salary before when Toby worked.   

I had lots of teachers in private school whose entire salary went to their kids private school tuition.  

But I'm also fine with Toby interviewing for a job in San Francisco.  I mean he absolutely needs to tell Kate before taking a job in San Fran but 1) he might just need the win of a job offer and doesn't really intend to take the job.  2) he might hope once h has the interview he can talk the company into remote work or one week on and one week remote or something that might be more tenable.  Until he has a job in San Francisco it doesn't impact their lives.  And how it would impact their lives isn't something he would know until he knew what he offer entailed. 

My dad once confessed to my mom he had a job offer in New York and it was for a short contract but he was pretty sure it would be extended if he did well on the short term contract but he didn't go for it because he didn't believe she'd be willing to move the family to NYC and she was like, "I mean he didn't even ask.  It would have been a conversation."  In fairness I think he used that as an excuse not to try something that frightened him but my mom's response still was when she found out about it too long after to do anything about it was, "why didn't he trust me to try to at least think about how we could support his dreams?"

I do think this job will be the beginning of the end for Toby and Kate and I thin Kate will end up with Timothy Omundson but it doesn't have to be.    It could be a hard 6 month stretch where Toby impresses the San Francisco office to get transferd to the LA office.  It could be a hard 6 month slog where Toby looks for a job in LA while supporting the fam from up north.  It could be a more flexible thing and he won't know without at least entertaining the offer... the same way Beth is going to take a job at a conservative studio and change the system from within.

 

[bybrandy]

16 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

Raisinets are gross (I hate raisins), but M&Ms in popcorn are a sublime treat!

I love Raisinets (Which is apparently the unpopular opinion) but in popcorn is weird because it would get your hands all chocolatey but M&Ms in popcorn is my perfect PMS food because you have salt and chocolate and the hard candy coting doesn't melt but the chocolate inside does and it is MAGIC!!!

 

[debraran]

I see a lot of comparisons to Miguel and Kevin but I don't see it at all. Rebecca knew Miguel a long time and respected him, they dated before they married and knew each other. There wasn't a baby or babies to make either feel guilty. They found you can love another person, especially Rebecca and be happy. Kevin wasn't dating Madison and her knowledge about that at least came out in the painting session. It was uncomfortable but true. If she lost the twins, they would not be married. How do you separate caring about someone to also being the mother of your children? It's hard but when the baby glow leaves and it's starting (the work vs play) he would grow restless. Nicky's "rude" comment was to show Kevin also, he wouldn't judge him as Jack's brother, it's okay to take a breath and not rush into wedding. Why the rush? The babies wont care if mom and dad married when they were 3 months or 12 months. Also is Madison's eating disorder gone or is she going to battle that again?

I also can't wrap my head around the long path the writers say they have for Kevin. Why are they bringing Sophie back? Most of knew the "fiance" was just a word, not shown for a reason. I understood their past but not the ring part, not the cemetery part. Watching it again on youtube, it was so long and dramatic and how he wanted a second chance (even knowing about the fiance) Then Madison says she is pregnant and interrupts the flow.

Does anyone think it was Alexandra not being able to do it as much and they wrote Madison in? I read recently Dan F said he filmed the end scenes already in 2018 when she was available and because of that certain things have to flow the same. Virgin River was 2019. Can it be he needed filler until he can film more scenes to go around those? Wont Kevin's children in those future scenes be older if shown again if filmed then and now 3 years later? I can see if it was just the adults.  I understand Kate because she can look different and I understand not showing Sally or people like that since they probably weren't cast.  I think we will see future scenes as with Jack Jr before it ends and he'll have us continue the show in our heads.

 

[ShadowFacts]

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Last episode it was Kevin who was stressed that he might never work again because his movie with DeNiro turned out so badly, but now he's apparently OK with splurging. He could have gotten four commercial first class tickets, which would have still been a nice way to travel, but much cheaper.

Was it ever mentioned why the bachelor party was at the cabin? They are all in California except Randall. Do the big 3 have such huge attachment to that cabin that they can't have events anywhere else?  If so, why do they not all live closer. Also, Beth brings the daughters but they sit in a hotel room watching movies.  She mentioned to Randall that they could all have some sun. I say, save those airfares and have some sun in Philadelphia, it's May and warm. I suppose everyone's had enough quarantine, etc. etc. but I just don't identify with all of the money they let fly around. Kids will be in college soon, tuition and retirement ahead. Okay, I'm over thinking and more frugal than TV folk . .

 

 

[Boo Boo]

10 hours ago, nixgirl28 said:

Yeah, shouldn't newlywed game style questions be more like "who leaves their socks on the bedroom floor?" or "who's more likely to get a speeding ticket?"? It just seemed too much for a silly bachelorette game.

Right -- it was set up to give us that weird pause that Kev would have that is similar to the Jerry Maguire scene where Renee Z. watches the wedding video and sees how uncomfortable Maguire is.

Maybe next week they'll recreate the Will married Leo on Will & Grace where they realize they don't know each other well - 

***

BOBBI: Where are you kids going on your honeymoon?

GRACE: We haven't really talked about it yet.

ELEANOR: You should take her to your cabin.

GRACE: You have a cabin?

LEO: Yeah, I go there to fish.

GRACE: You fish?

LEO: Mm-hmm. I learned in Africa.

GRACE: You were in Africa?

LEO: Yeah, when I was with Doctors Without Borders.

GRACE: You were with Doctors Without Borders?

ROSARIO: Have you two met?

ELLEN: So, Grace, are you going to keep your last name?

GRACE: Um, I haven't really thought about it.

BOBBI: How many grandkids can I count on?

LEO: I don't know... Five.

GRACE: Two.

LEO: Four.

GRACE: Three. Oh. We haven't talked about it yet.

LEO: Yeah.

ELLEN: Yikes, that's the first thing I'd talk about.

JOE: Well, didn't you cover any of this in your premarital counseling?

GRACE: We didn't have any premarital counseling.

LARRY: Well, that's one way to go.

WILL: Hey, hey. Let's give the newlyweds a break here. I'm sure they know all the important stuff. Like favorite song. Favorite movie. Birthdays? No? Ppf. Doesn't matter.

[WILL TURNS AWAY, MOUTHING "WOW" TO KAREN AND ELLEN.]

ELEANOR: Don't worry, Grace. Marvin will fill you in on all that stuff.

GRACE: That's right, Eleanor. Who's Marvin?

LEO: That'd be me.

GRACE: Your name is Marvin?

LEO: Yeah, yeah. People always call me "Leo"... 'cause my name's Marvin.

JACK: [LAUGHS WITH A MOUTHFUL OF CAKE] You just married a guy, and you don't even know his name? Silly.

[MissLucas]

So, middle-aged Kevin can't come up with the same treacly answer about his romantic future as teenage Kevin? And that's supposed to show that his relationship with Madison is doomed? If anything I'd say it's the opposite. Also, Kate took a huge gamble by playing that video without watching it first. 

I really don't want to see a third attempt with Sophie. Yes, the relationship with Madison is less complex, less big gestures and 'I will kill a dragon for you' statements. But sometimes less is more. And quite frankly for someone like Kevin a stable 'boring' relationship might be more beneficial than the Pearson standard model of emotional roller coasters, big speeches and big gestures that mere mortals just can't live up to.

Of course I like 'Jerry Maguire' for exactly those reasons, shut up Toby Tobias and Nicky! 

I was impressed by all the ladies artistic skills, those paintings looked a lot better than I expected. But I also thought the whole thing weird. I preferred the awkward bachelor party.

Yay, for finally getting some Miguel/Rebecca flashbacks! And yay for Nicky looking up is 'lost girl'. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by MissLucas

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, ShadowFacts said:

Was it ever mentioned why the bachelor party was at the cabin? They are all in California except Randall. Do the big 3 have such huge attachment to that cabin that they can't have events anywhere else?  If so, why do they not all live closer. Also, Beth brings the daughters but they sit in a hotel room watching movies.  She mentioned to Randall that they could all have some sun. I say, save those airfares and have some sun in Philadelphia, it's May and warm. I suppose everyone's had enough quarantine, etc. etc. but I just don't identify with all of the money they let fly around. Kids will be in college soon, tuition and retirement ahead. Okay, I'm over thinking and more frugal than TV folk . .

 

 

I think the bachelor party in the cabin stems from Covid.  Easier to send the actors to a set rather than attempt filming crowds.  The show has the cabin set, so send them there.  Same thing for Madison's party, have it at a set they already have and bring in one extra actor.  Kevin is also sober so a booze-fueled weekend was not going to happen anyway.  His bachelor party was always going to be lowkey, so fishing at the cabin sounds right in line.  

I assume the girls also hung out at the pool while not watching Netflix.  But, sometimes just laying around a hotel room hits the spot.  After a year of only being in their own home, a hotel room sounds like a dream especially if room service is involved.

[Empress1]

30 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

But, sometimes just laying around a hotel room hits the spot.  After a year of only being in their own home, a hotel room sounds like a dream especially if room service is involved.

I had to take an overnight trip a few weeks ago - nothing fancy, it was essentially an errand that was three hours away (I drove). But when I tell you how good it felt to just ... be away? Oh my God. I brought my favorite face mask and took a bath and ordered food and watched TV in a place that wasn't mine, and it felt fantastic.

[Ohiopirate02]

11 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

I had to take an overnight trip a few weeks ago - nothing fancy, it was essentially an errand that was three hours away (I drove). But when I tell you how good it felt to just ... be away? Oh my God. I brought my favorite face mask and took a bath and ordered food and watched TV in a place that wasn't mine, and it felt fantastic.

I just spent Sun-Tues at the beach.  I had a room to myself and a view of the ocean, and it was heaven.  It was a bit chilly for sitting on the beach all day, but I managed.  I'm sure Deja, Tess and Annie loved chilling on a bed that was not theirs nor their couch.  I sure did.

[Cheyanne11]

11 hours ago, nixgirl28 said:

Yeah, shouldn't newlywed game style questions be more like "who leaves their socks on the bedroom floor?" or "who's more likely to get a speeding ticket?"? It just seemed too much for a silly bachelorette game.

Right?  "What do you want to do when you're empty nesters?" is a dumb question when they literally have two infants and that's not something that would be at the front of their minds.

[SunnyBeBe]

Bringing  up Sophie again was disheartening to me. If I recall correctly, she made it perfectly clear that she was NOT into furthering a relationship with Kevin.  Sad, but certain.  Revisiting that potential is kind of creepy...accept  it when someone sets a boundary.  Looking someone up after 20 years is a little different.  

Edited May 20, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[circumvent]

I don't know why, but I wasn't too interested in the episode so can someone clarify: the men were in the Pittsburgh area (were the cabin is) and the women were in LA at Madison's house? 

[Ohiopirate02]

31 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Bringing  up Sophie again was disheartening to me. If I recall correctly, she made it perfectly clear that she was NOT into furthering a relationship with Kevin.  Sad, but certain.  Revisiting that potential is kind of creepy...accept  it when someone sets a boundary.  Looking someone up after 20 years is a little different.  

Sophie broke up with Kevin the second time because he was actively abusing alcohol and pain killers and she could not deal with him being an addict on top of her job as a nurse and caring for her mother.  Now that her mother has passed and Kevin is sober, she appears to have a different view.  I get her not having it in her to handle a relationship with an addict, it is a lot.  But, to pursue him (and she was pursuing Kevin with that phone call) now that he is sober feels wrong to me.  It feels conditional, and she could potentially bail on Kevin again as soon as he doesn't live up to her standards.  That is not love nor the foundation for a lasting relationship.  There is an imbalance that will never go away.  I could potentially feel differently if the show were to show how Sophie has also changed.  But, the show seems to be stuck in the mindset that Kevin as himself is not good enough for Sophie and he has to work to "earn" her.  I will be disappointed if the show decides that Kevin is finally "good enough" for Sophie and he slips that emerald ring upon her finger if we also don't see Sophie changing to be the wife Kevin needs.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought Kevin went to see her when her mother died....

[Ohiopirate02]

Just now, SunnyBeBe said:

I thought Kevin went to see her when her mother died....

He did go to see Sophie when her mom passed.  I honestly thought their story was done during that episode when they finally watched the ending of Good Will Hunting together.  But then the show had the whole story about the emerald ring and Kevin not being good enough for it, and the episode ended with Sophie finding the ring and staring at it wistfully.  

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I assume the girls also hung out at the pool while not watching Netflix.  But, sometimes just laying around a hotel room hits the spot.  After a year of only being in their own home, a hotel room sounds like a dream especially if room service is involved.

I'm sure it is a dream just getting away, I'd enjoy it if I could do it. I'm being (hyper)critical of the money involved. The R. Pearsons are down to one income again. Maybe Kevin sprang for the airfares and hotel to his fiance's party. He can be a little more free with money. Even though he has two newborns and a dud movie, I suppose.

I have been totally away from looking at forums or commenting for this season, many reasons. The show itself has lost a lot of my interest, and I am getting more annoyed with the little bits that I could formerly overlook, so I guess I came here to see what other people were thinking. The Kevin angst about should he or shouldn't he, the endless flying between LA and Pennsylvania, non-essential travel during pandemic, and I really wish they would delve more into things with Rebecca, because if they weren't up to addressing it, why give her the diagnosis and cheap out by having the antihistamine be the cause of her one big scary episode. The conflict about whether to enroll her in a study got easily tied up because of the pandemic. If I had been Beth and Kate wasn't going to actually make sure her mom got home safely from the party, I would have seen to it.  No matter how great she's been doing lately, a person with Alzheimer's in an Uber could easily turn into a Silver Alert. I think Mandy Moore as present day Rebecca is one of the best parts of the show and she has been under-utilized, even before she had her baby.

[ifionlyknew]

37 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

But, to pursue him (and she was pursuing Kevin with that phone call) now that he is sober feels wrong to me.

Not to mention he is engaged with newborn twins. If she did reach out because she is hoping she can get him back that makes her a very selfish person. For all she knows Kevin is madly in love with his fiancee.  

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Yes, the relationship with Madison is less complex, less big gestures and 'I will kill a dragon for you' statements. But sometimes less is more. And quite frankly for someone like Kevin a stable 'boring' relationship might be more beneficial than the Pearson standard model of emotional roller coasters, big speeches and big gestures that mere mortals just can't live up to.

I keep hearing the Rolling Stones singing "You can't always get what you want but if you try sometimes you get what you need."

[izabella]

2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I really don't want to see a third attempt with Sophie. Yes, the relationship with Madison is less complex, less big gestures and 'I will kill a dragon for you' statements. But sometimes less is more. And quite frankly for someone like Kevin a stable 'boring' relationship might be more beneficial than the Pearson standard model of emotional roller coasters, big speeches and big gestures that mere mortals just can't live up to.

I would say that "I'm all in, I will drop everything and raise these unexpected babies with you" is a big gesture and is like slaying dragons.  So is dropping his film to run to Madison's side for the birth of the babies, and so is choosing marriage instead of just co-parenting.  Those all seem like very big gestures to me. 

In some ways, I see a parallel here between Rebecca, who was not at all wanting to try to have kids, and was not ready to have kids and certainly not triplets, but went ahead with it anyway, and Kevin diving into parenthood and in getting married.   Maybe it didn't all happen with the timing they may have wanted, but ultimately, they took the leap anyway. 

[gibasi]

What and when is the emerald ring story? I don’t remember it  

[Tango64]

I was confused by the kitchen scene where Kate and Madison talk about being BFFs and they'll always have that. Someone correct me if my memory is wrong, but I recall Kate only tolerating the earlier version of Madison that was all bubbly and perky because she was a skinny pretty girl from their eating disorder group and Kate kind of resented her.

She put up with Madison wanting to be friends but was always rolling her eyes or giving her side eye when Madison was perky and clingy. Then Madison slept with her brother and they were more formally connected but Kate wasn't crazy about it.

Now they talk about how they were BFFs and will continue?

Also, to the poster who reference how good the paintings were, that's something I always notice. If the production ever needs a banner, handmade sign, a complete amatuer painting, etc., it's done by the skilled professionals in the art department. They try to dumb it down to look like what you or I would have done, but they just can't.

[Ohiopirate02]

Just now, gibasi said:

What and when is the emerald ring story? I don’t remember it  

Sophie's grandfather gave her grandmother an emerald engagement ring.  I believe he worked tirelessly to save up for it and there was some type of WWII connection.  Sophie always loved that ring and it was promised to her by her grandmother.  Sophie's grandmother passes away when she is still a child and her mother has possession of it.  Kevin asks for the ring knowing Sophie has always wanted it when he and Sophie come back to Pittsburgh after eloping.  Sophie's mom tells him that he is not worthy of the ring yet and he has to earn it.  They then divorce in their 20s after Kevin cheats.  The ring sits in Sophie's mom's possession all these years and Sophie finds it while cleaning out her mother's stuff.  Sophie finds it and stares wistfully remembering the ring, it's history, and what it means.  

[ShadowFacts]

28 minutes ago, Tango64 said:

I was confused by the kitchen scene where Kate and Madison talk about being BFFs and they'll always have that. Someone correct me if my memory is wrong, but I recall Kate only tolerating the earlier version of Madison that was all bubbly and perky because she was a skinny pretty girl from their eating disorder group and Kate kind of resented her.

She put up with Madison wanting to be friends but was always rolling her eyes or giving her side eye when Madison was perky and clingy. Then Madison slept with her brother and they were more formally connected but Kate wasn't crazy about it.

You have it right up to a point -- but they did become actual friends when Kate kind of copped to the fact that Madison was really trying to be her friend.  Madison was in Kate's wedding, and was at the hospital when Jack was being born (and if I remember correctly, Kevin was rude to Madison there).  Then we didn't see her for quite a while, until the one-night stand.

[bybrandy]

Money is an issue but you come up with the money to go to your brother's wedding if at all possible.   Beth came like 2 days early for the bachelorette party and the girls got to chill in a hotel and go down to the pool and enjoy California weather.   Kevin hired a jet for everybody he's likely flying Randall back in the jet as well so one less plane fare and for all we know Randall and Beth have credit card miles from a swankier life for those airfares and hotel accommodations.   Two extra days in a hotel for a wedding there is no possible way they would have missed is not going to kill Randall and Beth.

[smartymarty]

17 hours ago, izabella said:

It's also helpful for Toby to be able to tell other companies he is interviewing with that he got an offer elsewhere, or where else he is interviewing.

Actually, it's not. It says to the current company that you're not 100% interested in working for them. You have to be really exceptional to bounce offers off of each other, like Lebron James exceptional.

 

16 hours ago, nixgirl28 said:

Yeah, shouldn't newlywed game style questions be more like "who leaves their socks on the bedroom floor?" or "who's more likely to get a speeding ticket?"? It just seemed too much for a silly bachelorette game.

I thought the game had the potential to be disastrous. "Let's find out on the eve of your wedding whether you actually know anything about each other." Seemed they've never talked about what they want for their future. (In Jane the Virgin, they covered a wedding eve "we've never discussed" panic by having the bride and groom stay up all night talking. It was beautiful.)

 

8 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Was it ever mentioned why the bachelor party was at the cabin? They are all in California except Randall. Do the big 3 have such huge attachment to that cabin that they can't have events anywhere else?  If so, why do they not all live closer. Also, Beth brings the daughters but they sit in a hotel room watching movies. 

Great point. And couldn't the girls have stayed home with Grandma Rashad?

15 hours ago, chocolatine said:

He could have gotten four commercial first class tickets, which would have still been a nice way to travel, but much cheaper.

He might have done this to keep them all covid safe.

[bybrandy]

1 hour ago, Tango64 said:

She put up with Madison wanting to be friends but was always rolling her eyes or giving her side eye when Madison was perky and clingy. Then Madison slept with her brother and they were more formally connected but Kate wasn't crazy about it.

That is how it started but they became legitimately good friends I thin when Kate was getting married and Maddison had a part she was playing in Kate's birth plan, I think.  

2 minutes ago, smartymarty said:

Great point. And couldn't the girls have stayed home with Grandma Rashad?

And not gone to their uncle's wedding and not met their 3 new cousins?   Once Beth as sprung for a hotel room it isn't costing her significantly extra to pile a few girls in there with her.  I think the wedding is legitimately in a couple of days.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, bybrandy said:

Money is an issue but you come up with the money to go to your brother's wedding if at all possible.   Beth came like 2 days early for the bachelorette party and the girls got to chill in a hotel and go down to the pool and enjoy California weather.   Kevin hired a jet for everybody he's likely flying Randall back in the jet as well so one less plane fare and for all we know Randall and Beth have credit card miles from a swankier life for those airfares and hotel accommodations.   Two extra days in a hotel for a wedding there is no possible way they would have missed is not going to kill Randall and Beth.

Also, depending on the area and how far in advance the rooms were booked you can get deals on hotel rooms right now.  If they booked back in March or April, rooms were dirt cheap.  Now that more people are fully vaccinated, prices have gone up.  I booked my Outer Banks room in April and got a beachfront hotel with an ocean view for $80/night.  I debated about adding a night, but the same room was up to $150 last week.  

Or Uncle Kevin redeemed some vouchers to get the Randall Pearsons a couple of rooms at the Beverly Hilton.  Celebrities get freebies all the time for showing up to things.  

[Sake614]

On 5/18/2021 at 11:07 PM, KaveDweller said:

Isn't it over 4 hours to drive from LA to San Francisco?

Eight. But there are shuttle flights that are fairly cheap and only about 90 min. I guess if the new job pays enough he could go home on weekends.

[Norma Desmond]

Whoever said upthread that Madison will realize that she doesn't want to get married to Kevin, and that he will be secretly relieved, and the wedding party will turn into some kind of "we'll raise our kids together and be friends forever" Pearson family celebration thing got it right, I think.

 

 

 

Or, it could be only (my) wishful thinking.

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Norma Desmond

[ljenkins782]

On 5/19/2021 at 11:16 AM, Blakeston said:

Madison's dialogue with Kevin about how her "east coast friends" couldn't make it made me wonder if she's being fully honest with him. Hasn't she made it clear to Kate that she has no other friends that she gives a damn about whatsoever?

It sounded like she's giving Kevin the impression that she's started to grow away from her non-Kate friends because of distance and families, and that doesn't quite match what we've heard from her in the past.

I can kinda see why she'd do that. Kevin's had this packed life of fame and fortune, so even if he's low on actual "friends," he could fill a room with acquaintances with the snap of his fingers. That could easily make a person insecure about their own lack of a social circle.

Madison's obviously lived a quieter life and some people do struggle to make and maintain friendships despite being perfectly nice people. The Madison we saw at the very beginning was a bit annoying and tone-deaf, with the attending of a support group for people who were severely overweight to deal with her own issues, which while real for her, wasn't the same as what everyone else there was facing. So that person, with all the nervousness and issues around food and body image that were largely mental for her, may not have had people lining up to hang out with them. For example, things like going out to lunch or going out for drinks, they're a minefield for people with eating issues, so that's a social avenue that's kinda cut off.

So now she's tied to this movie star for life through a one-night stand pregnancy and it's got to feel like a big old spotlight on the areas where her life is lacking. We saw the same thing with Toby's bachelor party and with Kate as well. A lack of friends in the past shouldn't have to mean no friends forever, but I do think people can be turned off by that, like "why is no one else being their friend, maybe I shouldn't be either." 

Quote

Definitely don't want them in my popcorn (though chocolate popcorn sounds good).

It is! I randomly ordered this item from Imperfect Foods (which always has stuff that I guess failed in the store or whatever) called "Chocolate covered everything"

It had popcorn, nuts, toffee pieces, pretzels, etc, and it was SO GOOD. I inhaled it and look for it every time I order, but alas, I've never seen it again. 

[Boo Boo]

What did Madison do for a living before hooking up with Kevin?

[ShadowFacts]

27 minutes ago, Norma Desmond said:

Whoever said upthread that Madison will realize that she doesn't want to get married to Kevin, and that he will be secretly relieved, and the wedding party will turn into some kind of "we'll raise our kids together and be friends forever" Pearson family celebration thing got it right, I think.

 

 

 

 

 

Madison initially told Kevin that she never thought she could become pregnant and always wanted to be a mother and was prepared to do it all herself. She may do just that, after realizing that Kevin doesn't see an after-children future with her. Then some other big thing happens at the not-wedding to close off the season with a bang. The upcoming episode title

Spoiler

is a little unexpected, and may refer to some other character's past experience. 

 

[Cyranetta]

I must admit that I find Sophie a bore, so I don't get the Kevin-Sopnie "grand passion." 

I also dread feeling hurt for Madison should she get dumped by Kevin at the altar. Should it be a mutually arrived at decision (after mandatory convo with assorted Pearsons) that might not be as hurtful.

[Norma Desmond]

22 minutes ago, Boo Boo said:

What did Madison do for a living before hooking up with Kevin?

That's the million dollar question.

 

2 minutes ago, Cyranetta said:

I also dread feeling hurt for Madison should she get dumped by Kevin at the altar. Should it be a mutually arrived at decision

Of course it will, if it happens. Adult Kevin is consistently shown as someone with character and integrity and I don't think they would ruin that by having him leave a woman at the altar.

 

But hey, they could go through with the wedding. It certainly would be more shocking than the wedding being called  off.

[debraran]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Sophie's grandfather gave her grandmother an emerald engagement ring.  I believe he worked tirelessly to save up for it and there was some type of WWII connection.  Sophie always loved that ring and it was promised to her by her grandmother.  Sophie's grandmother passes away when she is still a child and her mother has possession of it.  Kevin asks for the ring knowing Sophie has always wanted it when he and Sophie come back to Pittsburgh after eloping.  Sophie's mom tells him that he is not worthy of the ring yet and he has to earn it.  They then divorce in their 20s after Kevin cheats.  The ring sits in Sophie's mom's possession all these years and Sophie finds it while cleaning out her mother's stuff.  Sophie finds it and stares wistfully remembering the ring, it's history, and what it means.  

That's why I think unless something happened that completely changed their outline, why did they do the ring thing? Everything else was par for TIU but that was like "part one" to be continued.

6 hours ago, izabella said:

I would say that "I'm all in, I will drop everything and raise these unexpected babies with you" is a big gesture and is like slaying dragons.  So is dropping his film to run to Madison's side for the birth of the babies, and so is choosing marriage instead of just co-parenting.  Those all seem like very big gestures to me. 

In some ways, I see a parallel here between Rebecca, who was not at all wanting to try to have kids, and was not ready to have kids and certainly not triplets, but went ahead with it anyway, and Kevin diving into parenthood and in getting married.   Maybe it didn't all happen with the timing they may have wanted, but ultimately, they took the leap anyway. 

Kevin is a good man, but running to see HIS babies and saying "he's all in" is not about Madison at all. If they dated or liked each other beforehand, maybe he begged off because she was Kate's friend, but it was the "soapiest" thing TIU ever did with a twist. It seemed like a  Million Little Thing plot.

Back in the late 70's a met a neighbor I babysat for. She got pregnant after one date with a handsome guy who was now her husband. Back then many thought women did that to "trap" a guy. She ended up having one more child but I could tell she always felt a little off center, women would flirt because of his looks and she was always conscious that he probably wouldn't have married her if not pregnant. They stayed married and he died fairly young in 60's. I don't think it's the same thing with Kevin and Madison but it's hard to shake the feeling that you want someone to want you. Madison doesn't deserve to be third or less.

Edited May 20, 2021 by debraran