S07.E03: Mother

[Trini]

As Eva (guest star Efrat Dor) becomes more powerful, Barry and team must find a way to stop her. They are shocked when an old friend - Sue Dearbon (guest star Natalie Dreyfuss) risks her life to help.

David McWhirter directed the episode written by Eric Wallace & Kristen Kim.

Airdate: 3/16/2021

[scarynikki12]

I’m guessing Barry getting his speed back had a side effect of creating more meta humans.

Not holding my breath on the show being done with the Wells. 

[cambridgeguy]

Boss, the Citizen is nothing without you.

Yes, that's what happens when you only hire two employees and one of them gets stuck in the Mirrorverse.

[Primal Slayer]

This was a bad finale and kind of embarrassing at that. 

The whole bending over backwards to bring back Wells and make him a meta human...They are really desperate for a Wells on this show. The universe doing a balancing act because the world needs a Wells? Come the freak on. And OF COURSE he has the memories of all the Wells. Lame.

"Love is the speedforce" I feel like this is a disney movie.

Finding an excuse to get Cisco into the battlefield using his OG powers because he cant be a meta anymore.....but we want him to be a sidekick fighting in the streets..

Fighting Mirror Mistress only for it to end in a pep talk and her going back to her mirrorverse...

If this is how we were originally going to end the season it really was all for nothing.

[edhopper]

I am reminded of the scene in Scott Pilgrim, when he wins by  learning the "Power of self confidence" or somesuch. It was done as parody in that movie, but here they are serious.

[Gregg247]

This story arc has been going on for a year and a half now (not the show's fault, I know), and I'm still so confused as to what the "Mirror Monarch" wanted. 

She wanted to escape her mirror prison. 

Then she wanted revenge on her husband and killed him (I think?). 

Then she wanted to keep Iris in the prison, along with Chief Singh and Camilla for some reason.(?) 

(EDIT: Oh, and there was an evil Iris skulking around for a few episodes but then she turned good and gave Barry a pep talk and then died.) 

Then she wanted to stop the Flash and somehow drained his power (or was that a different villain who did that?). 

And then she wanted to create her own army to take over the world. 

And then she was sorry and the Flash helped her go back "home". 

Huh?  

Was this story arc one of those writers' challenges where a new writer comes in each week and is forced to pick up the unfinished story and write an entirely new episode on the spot?

Is this what a "real" story arc for "The Flash" looks like when a person is trapped in the mirror universe?

Can we all agree that Barry should never, ever unironically refer to himself as "the Paragon of Love" ever again on this show?

Edited March 17, 2021 by Gregg247

[madhacker]

Hopefully the splitting of the Speed Force that was several colors means that Wally has also gotten his powers back

[UnoAgain]

20 minutes ago, madhacker said:

Hopefully the splitting of the Speed Force that was several colors means that Wally has also gotten his powers back

Some comics knowledgeable folks on another site said it was the other forces... Sage... Strength... Still... As well as speed... Not that the show ever cared about wally.. But in theory he should have his powers back now... And new folks may be affected by the other forces... Creating new friends and foes... All thanks to iris.. Who may be the real "mother" this episode was referring to... Also.. She's had the speed force.. Mirror powers and multiversal particles inside of her... She may be the ultimate power source

[thuganomics85]

Of course they would end up having Barry get his powers back permanently due to his love for Iris and her being used as a catalyst thanks to that one time she briefly had powers.  Yep, Barry got his abilities back thanks to the Power of Love!  Of course that was going to happen!  The show always takes the hokey, , cheesy with extra cheddar route that is available!  I'm honestly not mad at this point.  It would almost be disappointing if the show didn't embrace the sappiness.  Plus, as I find myself saying so many times, Grant Gustin and Candice Patton somehow make this silliness almost work on some levels.  Those two really have strong backs with all of the weigh they have to carry.

And not wanting to just settle on that ball of cheese, the show doubles down and basically has Eva be defeated not by force or trickery, but getting an epic pep talk (Iris-style!) and seeing the "error of her ways."  Man, I bet every other hero on the CW wishes they could pull off that kind of skills that seem to only happen on The Flash!  And she is even able to bring everyone taken by the Mirrorverse back, so no harm, no foul, right?  Hey, I'm glad since that means Singh is back.  Oh, and Kamilla, who is getting ready to so get kissed to death by Cisco.  Because he's keep this PG, folks!

Harrison Wells shows up, helps save the day, and... already leaves?  To use his time-traveling skills to relive the four years with his wife over and over again?  Kind of anti-climatic there.  But I guess we haven't seen the last of him.

I feel like I should like Chester more with all of his fanboying and fun reaction shots, but I'm still kind of cold towards him for some reason.

Nice seeing Sue again.  And a disfigured Ralph, since I guess they're still working on recasting him.  Thanks again for being a creepy dick, Hartley Sawyer.

Getting Barry his powers back somehow creates new speedsters?

Kind of an underwhelming end to this arc, but I'm going to just hand-wave a lot of what happened due to the rush to wrap all this up and hope things pick back up for what is probably going to more or less be the actual planned seventh season.

[tennisgurl]

Harrison Wells has to go. His planet needs him. 

[Primal Slayer]

49 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

I feel like I should like Chester more with all of his fanboying and fun reaction shots, but I'm still kind of cold towards him for some reason.

Chester just seems like a retread and ripoff of Curtis. Its like they just wanted an extra body in Star Labs that they now regret due to COVID. 

[Bulldog]

Well, that was anti-climatic.   Who knew that an Iris speech was all it would take to make a super villain see the error of their ways?  Yawn. 

 

8 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Chester just seems like a retread and ripoff of Curtis.

Chester seems totally unnecessary.  As far as I can tell, his only contribution is with the tech stuff and they already have Cisco for that. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Gregg247 said:

Can we all agree that Barry should never, ever unironically refer to himself as "the Paragon of Love" ever again on this show?

My eyes rolled so hard when he said that, I could almost here my Grandma telling me that they were going to freeze that way.  

[Primal Slayer]

If I never hear the word "Paragon of ___" again, it'll be to soon. It was the dumbest thing they added to COIE which I just want to purge from my mind in general.

[Lantern7]

. . . and so, Season 6 came to an end almost a year behind schedule, leaving behind the sweet smell of sap. Sap, and the stench of flexible human flesh baked at about 600 degrees.

How long is this season? I mean, great that we got stuff wrapped up, but it felt rushed. It's at a point where I'd be interested in seeing how things would have played out had COVID not wrecked the schedule. I'm thinking comic book form. No four-hour long super movie needed.

And Eva basically gets away with almost destroying Central City as "Mirror Monarch," which . . . not bad on her own. She gets redeemed by the power of love. Yeah, really. I think this is a situation that's barely acceptable if there's not a damn pandemic that fucks with the status quo. Otherwise, you get Barry referring to himself as "the Paragon of Love," and I'm wondering how many takes it took for Grant to say that with a straight face.

Hi, Bottomless Wells! Bye, Bottomless Wells! The "move within my lifetime" thing does give room for a return. He mentioned 92 years . . . was that how long he was supposed to live had Eobard Thrawne not killed him?

Daft Dibney? Ralpht Punk? I am highly amused.

[DanaK]

I’m not sure about several things in this episode, but the sequence with Iris helping Barry get his speed back was beautiful and emotional and the best part of the episode

I’m not sure I fully understood everything that was happening with Eva, but getting her to stop via a “choose peace and love” pep talk was at least a different way to defeat a season’s Big Bad, though lame at the same time. The pandemic really messed up a lot of shows’s plans

The way they handled Ralph was strange and awkward

Was this supposed to be the last of last season’s episodes, or at least the Big Bad storyline?

[Trini]

Cheesiest, most non-sensical finale* EVER. So much telling but not showing -- which was weird because there were so many scenes for padding. The only reason this isn't dead last after the Season 2 finale is because of the lightning rod callbacks. Good to know I can keep K. Kim on my bottom tier of writers. Wallace is on the thinnest of ice. So much dumb. They beat Eva by... telling her "Don't do this, you're better than this." And she's like, "You're right, I am. Are we cool, now?" "We're cool now!"

Bye, forever, Ralph and Sue! Wish I could say the same about OG Harrison, but of course he'll be back.

+1 point for remembering Jenna exists. (Still at -218, though.)

I know things had to be changed/re-written/etc. because of the pandemic and the shutdown and H.S. getting fired, but this was still bad. Very underwhelmed considering they had a few months to tweak this.

 

*Yes, I'm counting it as a finale.

 

4 hours ago, edhopper said:

I am reminded of the scene in Scott Pilgrim, when he wins by  learning the "Power of self confidence" or somesuch. It was done as parody in that movie, but here they are serious.

He earned the Power of Self Respect, but then he actually did some fighting after that.  Barry getting his speed back because of his connection to Iris worked for me, but that's about the only thing that did.

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

... Plus, as I find myself saying so many times, Grant Gustin and Candice Patton somehow make this silliness almost work on some levels.  Those two really have strong backs with all of the weigh they have to carry.

They're great, but even they couldn't save the final acts with Eva, IMO.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Trini

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, Bulldog said:

Well, that was anti-climatic.   Who knew that an Iris speech was all it would take to make a super villain see the error of their ways?  Yawn. 

Really.  I thought that was Barry's super power.

This Paragon of Love stuff is getting silly.

[vb68]

5 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

"Love is the speedforce" I feel like this is a disney movie.

I audibly groaned.

And then with with the pep talk at the end and Eva basically "Yeah okay. Good point! Byeeeee...", my eyes couldn't rollback far enough.

3 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Chester just seems like a retread and ripoff of Curtis.

Totally. I started wondering if they were going to acknowledge that and say they were cousins or something. 

[ketchuplover]

Not cancelled 👍

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

The only reason this isn't dead last after the Season 2 finale is because of the lightning rod callbacks.

That was awesome.

At least Barry and Iris were able to touch each other? Hug? After reading what Grant said in those interviews, I was expecting them six feet apart with both smiling, crying, and just conveying their emotions. So...yay?

I kept wondering just what Wells saw off to the side, which the audience didn't see, that had him taking off his glasses and putting them back on, while Barry was running. Tess? And won't he cause a Time Continum thingiemajiggie when he goes back in time to relive those four years? I mean, he'll bump into himself, right?

I won't lie, I thought for sure that something was wrong/bad with Iris when she showed up and helped restore Barry's speed.  With the monotone "we need you...you need...us(?)...I need you"

I've got Grant Gustin on the brain, so that's why I'm giving Barry slack--I watched that horrific movie (meaning bad awful) that he'd filmed right before/at the same time he might have filmed his first appearance as Barry in Arrow--A Mother's Nightmare. So love and empathy for that character must have bled in. Grant is just so very good.

Edited March 17, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[Lady Calypso]

I would hope that the real season six finale would have been better than what they gave us because this entire episode was filled with a lot of rushed plots (like...a LOT) and really cheesy and unbelievable dialogue, even for this show. There was a lot of stretching of believability, not just with the new Speed Force through Iris, but Harrison Wells and Ralph and even the conclusion of Eva (though the latter, I understand, had 100% changed due to COVID). 

I'm all for Barry's new Speed Force, but the cheese factor was cranked up to 100 this time around with his whole Paragon of Love and Iris having part of the Speed Force still in her. Now Iris' long criticized quote of "We are The Flash" is LITERALLY true. And the callbacks with the lightning rod, though cheesy and somewhat nice to hear, was also a bit cringey at the same time for me. I think it's because it didn't feel NATURAL for Barry and Iris to say those things. So it pulled me from the scenes.

So, Harrison Wells gives some more convoluted reasons as to how he became glowing green orbs. He's just THAT important that the universe decided to spare his life and give him a second chance. Oh, and he can now time travel. Ok, show. Ok. I'd love to hope that Harrison was a one and done, but you KNOW he's coming back sooner rather than later. And watch, he probably has Reverse Flash in him and he's gonna become the next Big Bad and he's actually gone off to start his EVIL PLANS. 

Of course, they had to bring back Not Hartley Sawyer to give Ralph an ending and a reason as to why he will be looking different whenever he does return with Sue. I guess that's the best explanation that they had, but did they have to throw that into THIS episode? Could they not have waited until next episode?

I understand why Eva's ending was so rushed and lackluster. I understand why the shots of the fights were so quick. But her going from raising an army to ending her army, all because she thought she was doing good but her children were really destructive toddlers was...yeah. They did what they could, I guess. And they gave an explanation as to why Iris doesn't have powers anymore so...yeah. 

This show is VERY VERY lucky that Grant Gustin and Candice Patton are excellent at their jobs and they give it their all, even through the shoddy dialogue. Or else this may have been the episode where I go "eh, I don't know if the show is a priority for me to watch." 

10 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Chester just seems like a retread and ripoff of Curtis. Its like they just wanted an extra body in Star Labs that they now regret due to COVID. 

Oh, for sure. But I imagine Chester is going to be Cisco's fill-in whenever Carlos is not in an episode. Or, at least, that was my impression of Chester's series upgrade, since Carlos doesn't seem to do every episode anymore and they still need someone techy for those episodes that he misses. 

[tennisgurl]

I am trying to cut the last few episodes some slack, I know they had behind the scenes issues and had to deal with COVID shutting things down for awhile, but I can only go so far, this was really stupid. I can often appreciate this shows tendency to wear its heart on its sleeve, but everything being saved with the power of love seems overly silly even for this show. "Your the Paragon of Love! Run towards your heart!" It sounds ridiculous, its so sappy even the Care Bears are rolling their eyes. Even worse, it just doesn't feel satisfying as an ending for this arc, especially for an arc that has gone on for this long. Again, I get why this has been so messy, but I don't know if you can blame the shut down for how long and boring this mirror story has become, it was already dragging even before the shut down. I guess I am supposed to feel some kind of something at the end when they saved the day with love and good vibes and were able to give Eva a "I know your not evil" talk and everything being fine, but it was all so rushed and so much has come out of absolutely nowhere. Bless Grant Gustin and Candice Patton for giving this their all, the show is very lucky that the two of them are so talented and have such great chemistry, its the only thing keeping this from becoming a complete farce. I love Barry and Iris so I cant be too mad about their love saving the day, and I can even buy that Barry and Iris could tap into the speed force using their feels for each other, and I am cool with Barry getting new speed powers, but why did they have to make it so ridiculously cheesy? 

This was basically the season finale, so I am glad that we are finally done with the mirror plot and can move on, I guess dealing with new powers shooting out when Barry got his speed back, but I don't care I just never want to see a mirror ever again. The whole thing was just so rushed, and while I am actually alright with Mirror Eva seeing the light, as she has always seemed more desperate than really evil despite her horrible actions, it all happened so suddenly, it makes all of this feel like a big waste if time. This whole real ending for the season has been so painfully rushed, its running faster than any speedster we have ever seen. Whatever, Iris is back and she and Barry finally got a big reunion, and even Singh and Kamilla, so lets just get out of here and into the next story. I am curious as to what this season was supposed to be like without the shut down and behind the scenes issues, but this is what we got, sadly. 

10 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Chester just seems like a retread and ripoff of Curtis. Its like they just wanted an extra body in Star Labs that they now regret due to COVID. 

Maybe thats why I can never quite warm to Chester, even though there is really nothing wrong with him as a character. He is nowhere near as annoying as Curtis, as Chester does actually seem to be a nice person and not a stealth asshole who hides their dick tendencies under nerdiness like Curtis, but he just feels like a carbon copy of other characters in this franchise. He also seems to be a variation on Cisco from back when we first met him, probably so that we can have a tech nerd around for when Carlos is busy. He just hasn't carved out a unique place on the team yet, its also probably why I am meh on Kamilla. She's fine, but she only seems to exist to be Cisco's love interest and doesn't have a lot else going on or a place in the show. 

I am sure that this isn't the real end of the Wells line, which is too bad because I think ending with the original Harrison Wells is a nice way to come full circle, ending with the Wells that started it all. I hope we can at least get a break before the next one shows up. 

Awkward way to write Ralph off, at least until he can be recast, but at least he got an ending. Have I mentioned how rushed this was? It felt like all of these plots have been going on for thousands of years while the resolution has taken about five seconds, I guess the show is as over all of this as we are. 

[Trini]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I would hope that the real season six finale would have been better than what they gave us because this entire episode was filled with a lot of rushed plots (like...a LOT) and really cheesy and unbelievable dialogue, even for this show. There was a lot of stretching of believability, not just with the new Speed Force through Iris, but Harrison Wells and Ralph and even the conclusion of Eva (though the latter, I understand, had 100% changed due to COVID). 

The only rushed plot I'm letting slide is Ralph and Sue because they lost an actor; but everything else still had the problems you mentioned.
 

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm all for Barry's new Speed Force, but the cheese factor was cranked up to 100 this time around with his whole Paragon of Love and Iris having part of the Speed Force still in her. Now Iris' long criticized quote of "We are The Flash" is LITERALLY true. And the callbacks with the lightning rod, though cheesy and somewhat nice to hear, was also a bit cringey at the same time for me. I think it's because it didn't feel NATURAL for Barry and Iris to say those things. So it pulled me from the scenes.

I'd argue that Iris has always been part of Barry's powers since Season 1, but yeah, the dialog was NOT good.
 

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

... I guess I am supposed to feel some kind of something at the end when they saved the day with love and good vibes and were able to give Eva a "I know your not evil" talk and everything being fine, but it was all so rushed and so much has come out of absolutely nowhere.  ...

It's still dumb and anti-climatic, but maybe if they had some buildup to Iris talking down Eva? They were in the Mirrorverse together for how long and they never really got into exploring Eva or Eva & Iris.

 

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

... its also probably why I am meh on Kamilla. She's fine, but she only seems to exist to be Cisco's love interest and doesn't have a lot else going on or a place in the show. 

Well, that's their own fault for not doing more with CC Citizen. Can we even say she's there for Cisco when we hardly ever see them together as a couple? I guess she was someone for him to care about, but that only happened half the time - at best.

Anyway, the bar is really on the floor for the real Season 7. I have zero expectations.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Trini

[Diapason Untuned]

When I saw Cisco appear with those awful looking gauntlets, all I could think was "We lost Vibe for this?" It really seems like the show doesn't know what to do with Carlos Valdes, but they may be because he's busy with other projects.

Yeah, this episode was so corny I almost couldn't believe it. This show is normally sappy, but this episode was just dripping in sugar. The whole plot line was super rushed too, but I can give it a pass due to Covid.

I was expecting them to do with Ralph what they did with Jennifer over on Black Lightning, but I suppose they're saving that for later? It'd have been better right now though. I did appreciate the Daft Punk joke they pulled.

Timeless Wells seems like the Doctor. Wonder if he'll have phone booth when next we see him?

Edited March 17, 2021 by Diapason Untuned

[shantown]

10 hours ago, Trini said:

I know things had to be changed/re-written/etc. because of the pandemic and the shutdown and H.S. getting fired, but this was still bad. Very underwhelmed considering they had a few months to tweak this.

I'm trying to be understanding because, yes, pandemic... but also... you had a YEAR to figure out a more coherent way to end season 6 and open season 7 and this half finished mess is the best you came up with? If they were going to rush the actual finale so much why not just smush the last 3 episodes together and get it all over with? Just no sense.
 

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, Harrison Wells gives some more convoluted reasons as to how he became glowing green orbs. He's just THAT important that the universe decided to spare his life and give him a second chance. Oh, and he can now time travel. Ok, show. Ok. I'd love to hope that Harrison was a one and done, but you KNOW he's coming back sooner rather than later. And watch, he probably has Reverse Flash in him and he's gonna become the next Big Bad and he's actually gone off to start his EVIL PLANS. 

Ohhhhh noooooooo. The best thing this show could do would be to cut TC and really try something new and more creative.
 

I didn't watch last night since this is no longer "must see tv" for me. I watched today because I like being able to be in the conversation on the forums, but as much as I love chatting with all of you I don't know if sitting through this show is worth it! I'm going to give the first couple episodes of the real season 7 a try, but I might pull an Oliver Queen and peace out of the Arrowverse for good.

[AnimeMania]

Barry learns it was love the gives him the runs.

[RedVitC]

I hope I'll be able to write about the things I liked and the things I had issues with later or later in the week, but ... I actually quite enjoyed the episode. I went in knowing what happens, though.

I actually think love being so important makes sense with how they've built up the story, though some of the dialogue could have been more natural

Faults and all, from these first 3 episodes, this is the one I have the feeling of wanting to rewatch

Anyway, hopefully more later!

Edited March 17, 2021 by RedVitC

[tennisgurl]

6 hours ago, Diapason Untuned said:

When I saw Cisco appear with those awful looking gauntlets, all I could think was "We lost Vibe for this?" It really seems like the show doesn't know what to do with Carlos Valdes, but they may be because he's busy with other projects.

 

Its almost like Cisco giving up his powers was a really stupid and pointless plot and I have no idea why they haven't reversed it yet. Crisis was the perfect time to give him his powers back, and they did, only for them to be gone again so that Cisco can have a "normal life". You know, being best friends with a superhero with superspeed and a doctor who has a sassy alternate identity with ice powers, working in a science lab with infinite funds that regularly make balloon animals out of the laws of time and space, having conference calls across the multiverse with the same over actor in increasingly silly accents, having time travelers on speed dial, fighting superpowered crooks with power armor, regularly working to save the world from cackling super villains. You know, a normal life. How has him having powers done anything to improve his quality of life? If he didn't want to use his very useful and cool powers, why not just not use them? Why give up powers only to do the same stuff as always, but with stupid and impractical gauntlet sleeves? 

[Cthulhudrew]

Episode 7x03: "The Many Goodbyes of Harrison Wells, part 26"

Edited March 17, 2021 by Cthulhudrew

[Cthulhudrew]

21 hours ago, Gregg247 said:

This story arc has been going on for a year and a half now (not the show's fault, I know), and I'm still so confused as to what the "Mirror Monarch" wanted. 

And why exactly couldn't Eva have stayed in the real world and still worked on all those projects she boasted to Barry about? Ending world hunger, etc.? 

(Not to mention she had a good point that he hadn't done much good with his powers, at least not proactively. All he ever does is respond to crises when they arise- he and the rest of Team Flash haven't done much to otherwise use their skills to help the world.)

21 hours ago, Gregg247 said:

Can we all agree that Barry should never, ever unironically refer to himself as "the Paragon of Love" ever again on this show?

Yes. That role is already taken.

[Quark]

I liked this episode, but it was quite messy.

I'm going to miss Efrat Dor, she is a great actress.

[Maverick]

 So, to summarize:   The Care BearsTeam Flash joined hands and shot RainbowsKindness Energy out of their stomachs to defeat SadnessMirror MasterMistressMonarch's Minions.  

[Lantern7]

38 minutes ago, Maverick said:

 So, to summarize:   The Care BearsTeam Flash joined hands and shot RainbowsKindness Energy out of their stomachs to defeat SadnessMirror MasterMistressMonarch's Minions.  

Well, when you say it like THAT, of course it sounds stupid. 😆

The dumb thing is that if the battle ended with a giant Beebo hugging the evil out of Eva, I would've liked that better than what we got.

[futurechemist]

I'm kind of ok with how this finale went. Eva was never portrayed as a villain per se, more like an anti-villain or well-intentioned extremist.  I was worried when the final fight devolved initially devolved into people throwing colorful CGI balls at each other.

I did think it would have been poetic for the final series of the Flash to include the original Wells who had never really been featured. And maybe I need to brush up on season 1, but I thought that Cisco and Caitlin had a close relationship with Wells before Thawne replaced him. So there could have been some character focus on how Cisco and Caitlin had grown up over the intervening years. 

[adora721]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

f he didn't want to use his very useful and cool powers, why not just not use them? Why give up powers only to do the same stuff as always, but with stupid and impractical gauntlet sleeves? 

I will forever believe that they depowered Cisco so that Ralph could be Barry's next in line, so to speak. In fact, before Crisis, Barry named the Elongated Man Central City's protector, if you recall. That position should have rightly gone to Vibe, but they depowered Cisco to make certain it would go to Ralph. And look how that turned out?!

And I just can't believe in Cisco and Kamilla's  love; it's like neither actor musters the energy to pretend to be 'in love' with the other. 

[Cthulhudrew]

2 hours ago, futurechemist said:

And maybe I need to brush up on season 1, but I thought that Cisco and Caitlin had a close relationship with Wells before Thawne replaced him. So there could have been some character focus on how Cisco and Caitlin had grown up over the intervening years. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought they remembered that.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 hours ago, adora721 said:

And I just can't believe in Cisco and Kamilla's  love; it's like neither actor musters the energy to pretend to be 'in love' with the other. 

Same here. Especially Kamilla. When she was talking to Cisco on the phone, telling him she was back, she didn't look or sound happy. It was all so...flat. She wasn't smiling; her eyes had no expression in them. Just very by the rote reading her lines.

She showed more emotion in the mirrorverse with Singh when their eyes had gone that light blue and they had passed out.

Edited March 18, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[shantown]

10 hours ago, futurechemist said:

I did think it would have been poetic for the final series of the Flash to include the original Wells who had never really been featured. And maybe I need to brush up on season 1, but I thought that Cisco and Caitlin had a close relationship with Wells before Thawne replaced him. So there could have been some character focus on how Cisco and Caitlin had grown up over the intervening years. 

It would be great if they took a season off from any Wells, and then brough Original Wells back for the final season. Gives us a break from him, but gives them that full circle closure. And makes it more impactful when he does return because they've been without him. WISHING that would happen but knowing that surely we'll have a random Wells back in STAR Labs next episode.

[Trini]

On 3/17/2021 at 11:45 AM, Diapason Untuned said:

When I saw Cisco appear with those awful looking gauntlets, all I could think was "We lost Vibe for this?" It really seems like the show doesn't know what to do with Carlos Valdes, but they may be because he's busy with other projects.

...

I keep seeing this excuse for Cisco/Carlos, but can someone show me these "other projects"? He's only done like two things since he started missing episodes in Season 5, and at least one of those was done during a hiatus when the show wasn't filming.

They just don't know or don't want to do anything with him; which is bogus because there are so many things they could do with him - with or without powers.

 

On 3/18/2021 at 12:01 AM, futurechemist said:

 

I did think it would have been poetic for the final series of the Flash to include the original Wells who had never really been featured. And maybe I need to brush up on season 1, but I thought that Cisco and Caitlin had a close relationship with Wells before Thawne replaced him. So there could have been some character focus on how Cisco and Caitlin had grown up over the intervening years. 

No; in this timeline, the only Wells they knew was Eobard-Wells. Because Thawne replaced him only a little while after he killed Barry's mother, which would have been years before any of them came to STAR Labs.

 

On 3/17/2021 at 11:45 AM, Diapason Untuned said:

...

I was expecting them to do with Ralph what they did with Jennifer over on Black Lightning, but I suppose they're saving that for later? It'd have been better right now though. I did appreciate the Daft Punk joke they pulled.

...

I'm going discuss the casting changes with the other shows compared to this one in the "Flash & Other Heroes" topic [ETA: my post]; but I will say that they did the absolute least they could do to wrap up Ralph's story - which is kind of sad AND hilarious.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Trini
clarity

[Gregg247]

19 hours ago, Quark said:

I liked this episode, but it was quite messy.

I'm going to miss Efrat Dor, she is a great actress.

I had no idea Efrat Dor was a real name!  I thought the producers were having a little fun with us, and there was an actor named Rod Tarfe in the cast for this mirror world story arc.

[bettername2come]

I can never finish expressing my annoyance at Cisco learning multiple times to accept his meta-ness, only to give up his powers since he never wanted them, but then just wear technology based versions of his powers. I hate it so much. It doesn't make any sense. In fact, it may be the thing on this show that makes the least amount of sense of all. 

On 3/16/2021 at 11:17 PM, Primal Slayer said:

Chester just seems like a retread and ripoff of Curtis.

That's unfair. I liked Curtis at first and knew why he was there. 

[adora721]

After rewatching, Iris says, "We need you, we need you" twice before saying, "We need you, I need you." I'm wondering if the first two were actually the speedforce aliens talking to Barry through Iris, saying they need him.

[immortalfrieza]

On 3/17/2021 at 1:00 AM, rmontro said:

Really.  I thought that was Barry's super power.

Oh, you see Iris' superpower is to give Barry pep talks so he can go superhero. Iris isn't a superhero who could fight to beat a villain, a tech genius like Cisco who could build helpful gadgets and figure out how to beat a villain, a doctor like Kate who can help Flash and others medically, a cop like Joe who can actually arrest people... Iris isn't allowed to have any other superpowers because then she'd have the ability to actually be USEFUL for once. They can't have Iris be useful, because then they wouldn't have to do things like trap her in another dimension for most of a season just so she would be out of the way. Let's be honest here, the whole reason Iris spent the whole season in the Mirrorverse was because they couldn't think of anything to actually do with her besides give sappy speeches to Barry. God I liked Iris so much better in season 4 when she was at least team leader.

Case in point:

On 3/17/2021 at 9:01 AM, Lady Calypso said:

 And they gave an explanation as to why Iris doesn't have powers anymore so...yeah.

I was rolling my eyes so much they drilled their way out of my head at that utterly ridiculous explanation. It was basically "Eva took my powers away when she left!" and I was just like... WHAT?!? So they gave Iris superpowers, let her use them all of once (and not even to beat the villain at that!) and then just took them away? At least have her beat the villain to justify ever actually having them before taking them away or just don't give her superpowers in the first place.

On 3/17/2021 at 5:04 PM, tennisgurl said:

Its almost like Cisco giving up his powers was a really stupid and pointless plot and I have no idea why they haven't reversed it yet. Crisis was the perfect time to give him his powers back, and they did, only for them to be gone again so that Cisco can have a "normal life". You know, being best friends with a superhero with superspeed and a doctor who has a sassy alternate identity with ice powers, working in a science lab with infinite funds that regularly make balloon animals out of the laws of time and space, having conference calls across the multiverse with the same over actor in increasingly silly accents, having time travelers on speed dial, fighting superpowered crooks with power armor, regularly working to save the world from cackling super villains. You know, a normal life. How has him having powers done anything to improve his quality of life? If he didn't want to use his very useful and cool powers, why not just not use them? Why give up powers only to do the same stuff as always, but with stupid and impractical gauntlet sleeves? 

Every time a character starts moaning about wanting to be normal it always leads to stupid stuff like this. Characters who do this tend to live in universes that are filled with abnormal people and as such having superpowers it's a boon rather than a curse. Being "normal" just means being an extra vulnerable piece of meat waiting for the next supervillain to come along and wipe them out with a wave of their hand. Besides, like Tennisgurl pointed out, it's not like Cisco isn't constantly up against superpowered threats all the time anyway, he just doesn't have powers to bring it up to his level now. This IS normal not just for Cisco but for everyone in Central City and probably beyond. And now they've got a bunch of gauntlets that just do the same thing as his powers used to! Just make Cisco Vibe again already.

[Starry]

On 3/19/2021 at 3:17 AM, immortalfrieza said:

Oh, you see Iris' superpower is to give Barry pep talks so he can go superhero. Iris isn't a superhero who could fight to beat a villain, a tech genius like Cisco who could build helpful gadgets and figure out how to beat a villain, a doctor like Kate who can help Flash and others medically, a cop like Joe who can actually arrest people... Iris isn't allowed to have any other superpowers because then she'd have the ability to actually be USEFUL for once. They can't have Iris be useful, because then they wouldn't have to do things like trap her in another dimension for most of a season just so she would be out of the way. Let's be honest here, the whole reason Iris spent the whole season in the Mirrorverse was because they couldn't think of anything to actually do with her besides give sappy speeches to Barry. God I liked Iris so much better in season 4 when she was at least team leader.

If they can't write a proper journalism arc for Iris they might as well send her back to STAR Labs. The Black Hole investigation should have been it but of course it turned into something completely different after one episode. The writers have made it abundantly clear that they can't write for anyone that isn't a metahuman or an all-knowing science geek. I think that's why we barely see Joe anymore, Barry never does his job and Cecile is only used for her powers. At this point Iris' blog has been more instrumental than her paper.

Cisco can't have a normal life because that would mean leaving Team Flash and the writers would be forced to think of stuff for him to do that doesn't involve being the resident tech genius. That can't happen so now they are stuck with a character whose motivations make no sense whatsoever.

[TV Anonymous]

While I knew that this was going to happen, it sucked to see faceless Ralph Dibny and to see him and Sue Dearborn (future Dibney) rode off to the sunset. Dibny was one of my favorites with his goofiness, and I was curious to see the adventure and romance of the Elongated Man and his future wife.

Spoiler

I was not sure however, that this show would go dark and portray her as a rape victim.

Oh well. Actions have consequences, I think. Hartley Sawyer did something unacceptable in his place of work and TPTB had to kill the storyline of the Elongated Man and his future wife. If I were Natalie Dreyfuss, I would be furious toward Sawyer.

Edited March 22, 2021 by TV Anonymous