Predator and Prey: Assault, harassment, and other aggressions in the entertainment industry

[Mittengirl]

I thought it was well known that he was a creeper?

[CrazyInAlabama]

I just read a short piece about one of Lewis's sons from his first marriage. Lewis had six sons with his first wife, and disinherited all of them.   Lewis left everything to the second wife, Sandee Pitnick, and to his little girl (Danielle) he adopted with his second wife and Danielle was also his manager.   One of his surviving sons talks about the neglect and abuse by Lewis:

https://www.insideedition.com/jerry-lewis-son-recalls-years-physical-emotional-abuse-it-was-vicious-37477

Statements by women who claim he abused them:

https://nypost.com/2022/02/24/jerry-lewis-accused-of-sexual-assault-by-leading-ladies/

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by CrazyInAlabama

[Zella]

I don't think I've ever read anything pleasant about Jerry Lewis as a person. Like, literally every single anecdote I have ever read about him made him seem like a colossal asshole. I never blamed Dino for dumping his ass. I can't say the accusations surprise me, though I'd not heard anything about them before. 

[Prairie Rose]

It was interesting reading the #MeToo tales from the actresses now in their 80s and 90s. I'm glad that they got the chance to speak their truth.

[Lady Whistleup]

Yeah, I believe it. These actresses are old ladies now. Why would they lie?

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Yeah, I believe it. These actresses are old ladies now. Why would they lie?

While these stories about Mr. Lewis sound quite credible and gel with what was previously known about him and I most certainly DO believe these particular women, one should never assume that random folks would have no reason/s to lie. 

Again, I stress that DO believe these women and their accounts but  not because I don't believe that there'd have been no reason for anyone to lie. I believe them because they sound quite credible and DO gel with what was previously known about the late Mr. Lewis. 

[Just Here]

The Portland Mercury (alternative bi-weekly newspaper in Portland, Oregon) published a long article today (March 1st) about sexual harassment incidents involving the Portland-based productions of Leverage and The Librarians.  Both shows were produced by Electric Entertainment (website), of which Dean Devlin is the CEO (bio page, IMDb page).

Silence on the Set: Claims of Harassment and Assault Within Portland’s Film Community

The article describes allegations against four men.  Three are named:  Actors Christian Kane and Timothy Hutton, as well as a camera operator, Gary Camp.  The allegations include unwanted touching and kissing as well as inappropriate speech (comments, questions, jokes).  Pseudonyms are used for the article's sources.

It's a long read (5000 to 6000 words) and not as organized as it could be, so here's a summary of the main allegations:

• The bulk of the allegations involve Christian Kane, who was a series regular on both Leverage and The Librarians.  He is currently a series regular on Leverage: Redemption, which is a continuation of the original Leverage.  (Redemption's production is based in New Orleans.)
  • One woman, "Heather", "alleges that Kane forcibly kissed her several times in front of her coworkers on set", apparently when they worked together on The Librarians. (The article does not directly specify which show the kissing happened on, or whether it occurred during both shows.)
  • "Heather" also worked on Leverage, where she allegedly witnessed an incident where "Kane had intentionally pulled a worker’s head toward Kane’s crotch while she was tying his shoe".
  • Additionally, "Heather" alleges that Kane made numerous comments about how she "looked in [her] pants" and made an inappropriate comment about her "being at blowjob level".
  • Another woman, "Diane", who was a set medic for Leverage, alleges that Kane made "inappropriate comments" "about her physical appearance" and tried to invite her to his local residence multiple times using a pretext.
  • A third woman "Rose", who worked in the costume department for The Librarians alleges that Kane made an inappropriate comment in the form of a joking request for a blowjob during a costume quick change.
• A fourth woman, "Lily", alleges that Timothy Hutton assaulted her while they were working on an "indie production" in Portland.  The allegation is that "he touched her inappropriately by putting his hand down her shirt without her consent" when they were riding together in the backseat of a car.
• A fifth woman, "Olivia", alleges that a camera operator, Gary Camp (IMDb page), inappropriately touched her multiple times.  Camp is also a camera operator for Leverage: Redemption.
• One of the women above, "Rose", also alleges that an unnamed higher-up's "way of greeting [her] was kissing [her] on the mouth and putting his hand around [her] waist".  This person is only described as "a man who worked on all of Devlin’s Portland-area productions who was in a position above her".
• The work environment on Leverage and The Librarians were described as a "boy's club" and a "summer camp atmosphere" where inappropriate touching and kissing "was happening in front of everyone’s eyes and no one was doing anything" (direct quote from "Rose").
• Also mentioned was Timothy Hutton's on-set temperament and behavior, including throwing tantrums and that he would sometimes "unexpectedly leave" when "working with set workers".
• There's also discussion about fear of retaliation and not trusting the shows' internal reporting procedures.

Here's a Twitter thread by the writer about the article.  Linked tweet embedded below:

 

In related news, yesterday (February 28th), Timothy Hutton apparently sued Electric Entertainment for not hiring him for Leverage: Redemption after a rape allegation surfaced, even though they allegedly had an enforceable oral contract. See the Leverage: Redemption media thread for article links and discussion. (I used "apparently" as I haven't found any confirmation that the lawsuit was officially filed.)

Edited March 2, 2022 by Just Here
typos

[andromeda331]

3 hours ago, Just Here said:

The Portland Mercury (alternative bi-weekly newspaper in Portland, Oregon) published a long article today (March 1st) about sexual harassment incidents involving the Portland-based productions of Leverage and The Librarians.  Both shows were produced by Electric Entertainment (website), of which Dean Devlin is the CEO (bio page, IMDb page).

Silence on the Set: Claims of Harassment and Assault Within Portland’s Film Community

The article describes allegations against four men.  Three are named:  Actors Christian Kane and Timothy Hutton, as well as a camera operator, Gary Camp.  The allegations include unwanted touching and kissing as well as inappropriate speech (comments, questions, jokes).  Pseudonyms are used for the article's sources.

It's a long read (5000 to 6000 words) and not as organized as it could be, so here's a summary of the main allegations:

• The bulk of the allegations involve Christian Kane, who was a series regular on both Leverage and The Librarians.  He is currently a series regular on Leverage: Redemption, which is a continuation of the original Leverage.  (Redemption's production is based in New Orleans.)
  • One woman, "Heather", "alleges that Kane forcibly kissed her several times in front of her coworkers on set", apparently when they worked together on The Librarians. (The article does not directly specify which show the kissing happened on, or whether it occurred during both shows.)
  • "Heather" also worked on Leverage, where she allegedly witnessed an incident where "Kane had intentionally pulled a worker’s head toward Kane’s crotch while she was tying his shoe".
  • Additionally, "Heather" alleges that Kane made numerous comments about how she "looked in [her] pants" and made an inappropriate comment about her "being at blowjob level".
  • Another woman, "Diane", who was a set medic for Leverage, alleges that Kane made "inappropriate comments" "about her physical appearance" and tried to invite her to his local residence multiple times using a pretext.
  • A third woman "Rose", who worked in the costume department for The Librarians alleges that Kane made an inappropriate comment in the form of a joking request for a blowjob during a costume quick change.
• A fourth woman, "Lily", alleges that Timothy Hutton assaulted her while they were working on an "indie production" in Portland.  The allegation is that "he touched her inappropriately by putting his hand down her shirt without her consent" when they were riding together in the backseat of a car.
• A fifth woman, "Olivia", alleges that a camera operator, Gary Camp (IMDb page), inappropriately touched her multiple times.  Camp is also a camera operator for Leverage: Redemption.
• One of the women above, "Rose", also alleges that an unnamed higher-up's "way of greeting [her] was kissing [her] on the mouth and putting his hand around [her] waist".  This person is only described as "a man who worked on all of Devlin’s Portland-area productions who was in a position above her".
• The work environment on Leverage and The Librarians were described as a "boy's club" and a "summer camp atmosphere" where inappropriate touching and kissing "was happening in front of everyone’s eyes and no one was doing anything" (direct quote from "Rose").
• Also mentioned was Timothy Hutton's on-set temperament and behavior, including throwing tantrums and that he would sometimes "unexpectedly leave" when "working with set workers".
• There's also discussion about fear of retaliation and not trusting the shows' internal reporting procedures.

Here's a Twitter thread by the writer about the article.  Linked tweet embedded below:

 

In related news, yesterday (February 28th), Timothy Hutton apparently sued Electric Entertainment for not hiring him for Leverage: Redemption after a rape allegation surfaced, even though they allegedly had an enforceable oral contract. See the Leverage: Redemption media thread for article links and discussion. (I used "apparently" as I haven't found any confirmation that the lawsuit was officially filed.)

I'm really shocked.  Christian Kane? Eliot Spencer/Jacob Stone. Damn I loved both his characters and his show Almost Paradise.

[Llywela]

5 hours ago, Just Here said:

The Portland Mercury (alternative bi-weekly newspaper in Portland, Oregon) published a long article today (March 1st) about sexual harassment incidents involving the Portland-based productions of Leverage and The Librarians.  Both shows were produced by Electric Entertainment (website), of which Dean Devlin is the CEO (bio page, IMDb page).

Silence on the Set: Claims of Harassment and Assault Within Portland’s Film Community

The article describes allegations against four men.  Three are named:  Actors Christian Kane and Timothy Hutton, as well as a camera operator, Gary Camp.  The allegations include unwanted touching and kissing as well as inappropriate speech (comments, questions, jokes).  Pseudonyms are used for the article's sources.

It's a long read (5000 to 6000 words) and not as organized as it could be, so here's a summary of the main allegations:

• The bulk of the allegations involve Christian Kane, who was a series regular on both Leverage and The Librarians.  He is currently a series regular on Leverage: Redemption, which is a continuation of the original Leverage.  (Redemption's production is based in New Orleans.)
  • One woman, "Heather", "alleges that Kane forcibly kissed her several times in front of her coworkers on set", apparently when they worked together on The Librarians. (The article does not directly specify which show the kissing happened on, or whether it occurred during both shows.)
  • "Heather" also worked on Leverage, where she allegedly witnessed an incident where "Kane had intentionally pulled a worker’s head toward Kane’s crotch while she was tying his shoe".
  • Additionally, "Heather" alleges that Kane made numerous comments about how she "looked in [her] pants" and made an inappropriate comment about her "being at blowjob level".
  • Another woman, "Diane", who was a set medic for Leverage, alleges that Kane made "inappropriate comments" "about her physical appearance" and tried to invite her to his local residence multiple times using a pretext.
  • A third woman "Rose", who worked in the costume department for The Librarians alleges that Kane made an inappropriate comment in the form of a joking request for a blowjob during a costume quick change.
• A fourth woman, "Lily", alleges that Timothy Hutton assaulted her while they were working on an "indie production" in Portland.  The allegation is that "he touched her inappropriately by putting his hand down her shirt without her consent" when they were riding together in the backseat of a car.
• A fifth woman, "Olivia", alleges that a camera operator, Gary Camp (IMDb page), inappropriately touched her multiple times.  Camp is also a camera operator for Leverage: Redemption.
• One of the women above, "Rose", also alleges that an unnamed higher-up's "way of greeting [her] was kissing [her] on the mouth and putting his hand around [her] waist".  This person is only described as "a man who worked on all of Devlin’s Portland-area productions who was in a position above her".
• The work environment on Leverage and The Librarians were described as a "boy's club" and a "summer camp atmosphere" where inappropriate touching and kissing "was happening in front of everyone’s eyes and no one was doing anything" (direct quote from "Rose").
• Also mentioned was Timothy Hutton's on-set temperament and behavior, including throwing tantrums and that he would sometimes "unexpectedly leave" when "working with set workers".
• There's also discussion about fear of retaliation and not trusting the shows' internal reporting procedures.

Here's a Twitter thread by the writer about the article.  Linked tweet embedded below:

 

In related news, yesterday (February 28th), Timothy Hutton apparently sued Electric Entertainment for not hiring him for Leverage: Redemption after a rape allegation surfaced, even though they allegedly had an enforceable oral contract. See the Leverage: Redemption media thread for article links and discussion. (I used "apparently" as I haven't found any confirmation that the lawsuit was officially filed.)

Dammit, dammit, dammit. 

[Prairie Rose]

I seem to remember accusations against Timothy Hutton coming out in late 2017 when the #MeToo movement really blew up. What a shame.

[peachmangosteen]

I remember the Timothy Hutton accusations but I've never heard anything about Christian Kane. I'm surprised that didn't come out when the Timothy Hutton stuff did. 

[P2C2E]

I am disappointed and not surprised. Kane has always seemed like a good ol' boy. I've always thought he was hot as hell but also thought that if I actually knew him we'd likely have very different value systems.

[supposebly]

12 minutes ago, P2C2E said:

I am disappointed and not surprised. Kane has always seemed like a good ol' boy. I've always thought he was hot as hell but also thought that if I actually knew him we'd likely have very different value systems.

That's pretty much how I feel about it. I'm much more dispapointed with Tim Hutton. Kane doesn't shock me one bit.

[aradia22]

Quote

Hulu’s Pam & Tommy has been the subject of controversy, largely due to the fact that neither Pam nor Tommy gave their blessings to the proceedings. [...] Anderson went on Instagram today to give her side of the story. In a post announcing a new documentary of the Baywatch star, Anderson described herself as “Not a victim, but a survivor. And alive to tell the real story.”

According to the Guardian, the currently untitled doc comes courtesy of Ryan White, who previously did The Keepers for Netflix. The documentary will have exclusive access from Pam as well as excerpts from her diaries. 

https://www.vulture.com/2022/03/pamela-anderson-is-telling-her-side-of-the-story-to-netflix.html

I wasn't entirely sure which thread this should go in. Her public statements over the years have been... mixed. But I hope this project works out well and she can tell the story the way she wants to.

[Anduin]

4 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

https://www.vulture.com/2022/03/pamela-anderson-is-telling-her-side-of-the-story-to-netflix.html

I wasn't entirely sure which thread this should go in. Her public statements over the years have been... mixed. But I hope this project works out well and she can tell the story the way she wants to.

Good. When I heard of the show, I wondered about that. The trailer leaned in the direction of making fun of her, and I never bothered to watch further. This might actually be good.

[Ailianna]

The only thing that really struck me in the trailer was when Tommy says he's on that tape the same as Pam, and she's says it's not the same at all, which seemed like it might explore the differences in how they were treated.

[Ailianna]

22 hours ago, Just Here said:

 

In related news, yesterday (February 28th), Timothy Hutton apparently sued Electric Entertainment for not hiring him for Leverage: Redemption after a rape allegation surfaced, even though they allegedly had an enforceable oral contract. See the Leverage: Redemption media thread for article links and discussion. (I used "apparently" as I haven't found any confirmation that the lawsuit was officially filed.)

Apparently Variety got a copy of the complaint.

[Stats Queen]

On 3/2/2022 at 9:39 AM, Prairie Rose said:

I seem to remember accusations against Timothy Hutton coming out in late 2017 when the #MeToo movement really blew up. What a shame.

I remember one accusation against Hutton, was there more than one?

[Prairie Rose]

24 minutes ago, Stats Queen said:

I remember one accusation against Hutton, was there more than one?

I'm not sure if the 2020 (not 2017, my mistake) allegation against him is tied in with the Leverage suit.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[agentp]

9 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

I'm not sure if the 2020 (not 2017, my mistake) allegation against him is tied in with the Leverage suit.

Yes, it is. 

[JustHereForFood]

On 3/2/2022 at 4:05 AM, Just Here said:

• The bulk of the allegations involve Christian Kane, who was a series regular on both Leverage and The Librarians.  He is currently a series regular on Leverage: Redemption, which is a continuation of the original Leverage.  (Redemption's production is based in New Orleans.)

Wait, is that Lindsey from Angel? If yes, dammit!

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

Wait, is that Lindsey from Angel? If yes, dammit!

Yes it is. Bummer.

[SunnyBeBe]

I look forward to seeing the documentary about Manson.  It’s called Phoenix Rising. 
 

https://abc11.com/rachel-wood-marilyn-manson-phoenix-rising-documentary-hbo/11651161/

 

 

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I look forward to seeing the documentary about Manson.  It’s called Phoenix Rising. 
 

https://abc11.com/rachel-wood-marilyn-manson-phoenix-rising-documentary-hbo/11651161/

Evan Rachel Wood will promote this on The Drew Barrymore Show, March 17.

[bluegirl147]

9 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Evan Rachel Wood will promote this on The Drew Barrymore Show, March 17.

She was on the View yesterday promoting it.  The episode is on Hulu if anyone wants to see it.

[Ms Blue Jay]

The Daily Show appearance:

 

[SunnyBeBe]

It’s my understanding that Manson has sued Wood.  

[toodywoody]

Did anyone watch the friends of R Kelly? They were saying he was creeping around his old school where he sang choir and was picking up on teenagers all the way back then. 

And then I saw on here how Cuomo is suing CNN for letting him go. Dude you were just as bad as your brother.  He's suing for 125 million.  So did Matt Lauer do the same to NBC? How can Cuomo win that? And if a judge does grant that, oh man. 

[Browncoat]

Every time I read "Manson" in a post here, my mind immediately goes to Charles.  I am old.

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

Every time I read "Manson" in a post here, my mind immediately goes to Charles.  I am old.

I'm in my early 30s and that's where my mind goes too when I see Manson. 

[Annber03]

29 minutes ago, Zella said:

I'm in my early 30s and that's where my mind goes too when I see Manson. 

I remember when Charles Manson died a few years ago, someone talked about hearing somebody in their early 20s ask who he was. It is weird to think there's people who haven't heard of him, given how infamous he was. 

53 minutes ago, toodywoody said:

Did anyone watch the friends of R Kelly? They were saying he was creeping around his old school where he sang choir and was picking up on teenagers all the way back then. 

Color me completely unsurprised. Ick. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Annber03

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

Every time I read "Manson" in a post here, my mind immediately goes to Charles.  I am old.

Same here! And when I read the phrase "Not everyone is completely evil or..." I want to say, Hello! Charles Manson was COMPLETELY EVUHL.

[bluegirl147]

1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

Every time I read "Manson" in a post here, my mind immediately goes to Charles.  I am old.

I can't be the only one who thinks Marilyn Manson chose that name because of Charles and the infamy that comes with that name.

I just answered m own question.

From Wikipedia:

 Like the other founding members of the band, his stage name was formed by combining and juxtaposing the names of two opposing American cultural icons: a sex symbol and an infamous criminal; in Manson's case, actress Marilyn Monroe and cult leader Charles Manson.

[Annber03]

Yeah, I knew that's where he got his stage name - if you were a teenager in the late '90s, early 2000s, even if you weren't a big fan (I knew and liked a handful of his songs, but I didn't really follow his career beyond that), you still likely knew the basics about him. 

But I do wonder how much people who weren't as familiar with him would've known about his work or his stage name and whatnot. 

Manson seemed to be a bit of a fascination for a few rock acts in the '90s - Marilyn Manson, of course, and I want to say Trent Reznor recorded some music in the house where the infamous murders happened? I thought I heard that somewhere, could be wrong though (or could be thinking of a different artist). It was all about the edge and the shock value with these people. 

[Zella]

3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I want to say Trent Reznor recorded some music in the house where the infamous murders happened?

He totally did! Sharon Tate's sister confronted him about it and he has since expressed regret for doing so and being so cavalier about it. I believe he was the last resident of the house before it was destroyed. 

[Bastet]

He didn't know when he decided to rent it, but when he found out he thought it went with the Nine Inch Nails aesthetic and named the studio "Le Pig" after "pig" being scrawled in Tate's blood on the front door.  Being asked by Tate's sister if he was exploiting her death by living and recording there, he had to confront that what was to him this macabre bit of American history was the worst personal tragedy to someone else, and finally realized, "What if that was my sister?  Fuck Charlie Manson.  I don't want to be looked at as a guy who supports serial killer bullshit."

And, yep, he was the last resident before it was torn down (people used to leave dead roses and candles at the gate, making him worry the shrines were for Manson rather than Tate) -- but he took the front door. 

[Zella]

That house is so infamous I find it a little hard to believe he didn't know what the house was when he rented it, but maybe I'm being uncharitable. 

[Ceindreadh]

6 minutes ago, Zella said:

That house is so infamous I find it a little hard to believe he didn't know what the house was when he rented it, but maybe I'm being uncharitable. 

Don't estate agents have to notify prospective tenants or buyers if there's been a murder in a house.  Or am I mixing up TV and real life again?

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, Ceindreadh said:

Don't estate agents have to notify prospective tenants or buyers if there's been a murder in a house.  Or am I mixing up TV and real life again?

I think it might depend on the individual state, but that's another reason I really doubt he didn't know. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

Don't estate agents have to notify prospective tenants or buyers if there's been a murder in a house.  Or am I mixing up TV and real life again?

In California that only applies to deaths in the previous 3 years so there would have been no requirement to inform Reznor at the time. 

4 hours ago, Zella said:

That house is so infamous I find it a little hard to believe he didn't know what the house was when he rented it, but maybe I'm being uncharitable. 

What would be the point of lying when he admits to liking the history once he knew and nicknaming it after what was done to Sharon? I’m in California and am very aware of the murders but had no clue where the house was. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Guest

[Vermicious Knid]

People are resurfacing William Hurt's history of abuse after his death.

Quote

The mother of one of his children and his former girlfriend, Sandra Jennings, alleged in court that Hurt subjected her to "violent physical and verbal" abuse, including hitting her in the face while she was holding their infant son. Another ex-girlfriend of Hurt's, actor Marlee Matlin, accused of Hurt of abuse over their two-year relationship, which started when she was just 19 and he was 35, including physical abuse, psychological abuse and rape. ...

Matlin made these allegations in her memoir "I'll Scream Later," published in 2009. But decades before, in documents for the court case involving Hurt's ex-girlfriend Jennings, the claims of abuse by Matlin was brought up. As the Chicago Tribune reported at the time, "Jennings says she learned of this [abuse] from her son, who indicated to her that he saw Hurt kicking Matlin during his visits with his father." 

Hurt was in and out of rehab multiple times for substance abuse.

Also, there's a new Buffy the Vampire Slayer history out to coincide with the 25th anniversary, Into Every Generation a Slayer Is Born: How ‘Buffy’ Staked Our Hearts, by Evan Ross Katz. And the cast and crew have a lot to say about Whedon.

Quote

While Whedon has maintained that he was “never physical” with actresses or crew members, “Buffy” alums Charisma Carpenter, Danny Strong, Emma Caulfield, and costume designer Cynthia Bergstrom addressed the numerous allegations against the writer-director in Katz’s book.

“Joss always talked to me about how the show was about a young girl becoming an empowered woman and how — and this is what really gets me — how he didn’t want to see the pretty blonde victimized, how he wanted to see her as the hero of the story,” Bergstrom said. “And now in light of everything that’s come out, I’m just thinking, then why the fuck did you victimize everybody? Why did you traumatize? What is wrong with you?”...

Yet, co-star Strong pointed out that Whedon’s personality wouldn’t have been different with more experience or not.

“I think that this mentality that we’re seeing in him is kind of like this high school nerd who’s angry that the pretty girls didn’t like him and he gets older and he’s gonna lash out at the pretty girls or hook up with some of the pretty girls, and the pretty girls that don’t want to hook up with him he’s going to lash out at them in some way or turn other girls against them,” Strong stated.

The “Dopesick” creator added, “I just want to say if you’re in your mid-thirties, fuck you. That’s not an excuse. You should know better by then. You’re very rich. You’re very successful. Give me a fucking break that you’re still talking about being the high school nerd that didn’t get the girls. It’s not an excuse to mistreat people.”

 

[Zella]

24 minutes ago, Dani said:

What would be the point of lying when he admits to liking the history once he knew and nicknaming it after what was done to Sharon? I’m in California and am very aware of the murders but had no clue where the house was. 

I don't think it is inconceivable for someone to fudge the details to make themselves look like less of an asshole. He may very well be telling the truth. As a true crime buff, I find it hard to believe that you would live in a house that infamous and not have to deal with the occasional gawker, but that may bias me more than the average person. My dad used to live near a really infamous house, and he said that the stream of gawkers was nearly nonstop, to the point it has also been destroyed. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Zella

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Zella said:

I don't think it is inconceivable for someone to fudge the details to make themselves look like less of an asshole.

Sure but my point is that it doesn’t make him look like less of an asshole. He gave the house a nickname based on what was written on the door in Sharon Tate’s blood. 

3 hours ago, Zella said:

As a true crime buff, I find it hard to believe that you would live in a house that infamous and not have to deal with the occasional gawker, but that may bias me more than the average person. My dad used to live near a really infamous house, and he said that the stream of gawkers was nearly nonstop, to the point it has also been destroyed. 

There isn’t anything in what he said that would mean that didn’t happen. He only said that he didn’t know when he chose the rental. He knew when he lived there.  

Edited March 17, 2022 by Guest

[Ms Blue Jay]

Watching Evan Rachel Wood on Drew Barrymore.  I'm definitely going to watch this doc.

[Spartan Girl]

On 3/17/2022 at 12:07 AM, Vermicious Knid said:

Also, there's a new Buffy the Vampire Slayer history out to coincide with the 25th anniversary, Into Every Generation a Slayer Is Born: How ‘Buffy’ Staked Our Hearts, by Evan Ross Katz. And the cast and crew have a lot to say about Whedon.

Quote

While Whedon has maintained that he was “never physical” with actresses or crew members, “Buffy” alums Charisma Carpenter, Danny Strong, Emma Caulfield, and costume designer Cynthia Bergstrom addressed the numerous allegations against the writer-director in Katz’s book.

“Joss always talked to me about how the show was about a young girl becoming an empowered woman and how — and this is what really gets me — how he didn’t want to see the pretty blonde victimized, how he wanted to see her as the hero of the story,” Bergstrom said. “And now in light of everything that’s come out, I’m just thinking, then why the fuck did you victimize everybody? Why did you traumatize? What is wrong with you?”...

Yet, co-star Strong pointed out that Whedon’s personality wouldn’t have been different with more experience or not.

“I think that this mentality that we’re seeing in him is kind of like this high school nerd who’s angry that the pretty girls didn’t like him and he gets older and he’s gonna lash out at the pretty girls or hook up with some of the pretty girls, and the pretty girls that don’t want to hook up with him he’s going to lash out at them in some way or turn other girls against them,” Strong stated.

The “Dopesick” creator added, “I just want to say if you’re in your mid-thirties, fuck you. That’s not an excuse. You should know better by then. You’re very rich. You’re very successful. Give me a fucking break that you’re still talking about being the high school nerd that didn’t get the girls. It’s not an excuse to mistreat people.”

Huh. What gets me is for all of Whedon’s bullshit about not wanting to see female characters be victims, he certainly was in the habit of victimizing them on a fairly regular basis in the show AND in real life.

[supposebly]

It always sounded to me that Whedon simply bought his own press and just repeated what the media kept saying how his show was about empowering (small blonde) women.

I watched Buffy a few years after its run. I never understood why this show was supposed to be so feminist. It started with romanticising morose stalkers like Angel and went downhill from there. IMO.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

I never understood why this show was supposed to be so feminist. It started with romanticising morose stalkers like Angel and went downhill from there. IMO.

I loved Buffy back in the day, but I never understood all the feminist mystique surrounding it. I always assumed it was just because it was an action type show with a female lead. Because, other than that, there was nothing particularly female positive about it. 

[JustHereForFood]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

I loved Buffy back in the day, but I never understood all the feminist mystique surrounding it. I always assumed it was just because it was an action type show with a female lead. Because, other than that, there was nothing particularly female positive about it. 

It showed that a female character can be a badass fighter without sacrificing her femininity. Buffy cared for a lot of "girly" stuff, like hair, nails, boys, etc., which was a contrast to some of the other female action heroines from 80's and early 90's who were often very manly, as if you took a character that was written as male and just cast a woman in the role.

[supposebly]

I don't know, I watched Alias and X-files at the time. Neither Dana Scully nor Sydney Bristow were what one would call manly. As female role models go, I would go with Scully and Sydney every time over Buffy. But then, I just never really liked the show. I found the dialogue so stilted and some of the acting downright laughable.

I'm trying to think of such manly female action characters from back then and have a hard time thinking of an example. I'm sure it's true, I might just have missed them.

Anyway, back to Whedon. It often feels like the whole feminist thing about Buffy was more about what the media labeled it than what Whedon's intentions were. All his originality seemed to be rooted in "the blonde girl in the slasher movie that dies first is the hero instead of the victim". And people interpreted that as feminist. No doubt that seems somewhat empowering but the show as a whole, I never really saw that. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by supposebly

[Vermicious Knid]

Quote

I'm trying to think of such manly female action characters from back then and have a hard time thinking of an example.

Xena?