S15.E20: Carry On (Series Finale)

[Binns]

17 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

Probably because Dean didn't die at all from incompetence, just pure bad luck. 

On one hand, Dean Winchester, with everything he's accomplished and all the people he's saved and all the big bads he's killed, sure as hell didn't deserve to get impaled by a spike as his final death. On the other hand, there's a terrible poetry and unexpected groundedness to it. Reminded us that he was and always had been human, which renders everything he made of his mortal human life all the more remarkable for it. The manner of his permanent death doesn't diminish him or his legacy, so I feel like I'll gradually be more at peace with it over time. He still deserved at least a good decade of freedom on Earth before that happened, though. With Miracle by his side.

I wish they could have shown us more, but we don’t know how long they had before he died. That’s something they could have done better...show snippets of hunts, etc. It might have been more than a couple of days like it seemed. 

[Bergamot]

45 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I hate that Dean died young,  but I think the way it happened is realistic. He knew he was mortally wounded. If Sam pulled him off and tried to get to help, he'd have died anyway. Like @Katy M said, they both know the time for deals and spells has passed.  I'm okay with that part. 

Okay, yeah, I think maybe I can agree with this. I guess it is just hard to think of Dean being permanently dead. He was always bursting with life and vitality and love, and always found a way to enjoy the little things and share it with those around him. He would have been that way if he had lived to be 100 years old. You could see it even in the first part of this episode, with his enjoyment of having a dog and going to a pie festival and figuring out a case. It was upsetting to see him die for good. But again, I think maybe I am mixing up my feelings about the show ending with my feelings about the episode.

42 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

I've been trying to write something for a half hour, but I just can't yet.

All I can say for now is that Dean's death scene was everything in this one for me.

Still doesn't think enough of himself.

Heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking.

But the "Don't leave me." and "Tell me it's ok..." were the end of me.

Yes, I am feeling very emotional about it. It is going to take me some time to process this. 😢

Edited November 20, 2020 by Bergamot

[BoxManLocke]

On rewatch, Dean's death scene is well written and of course, well acted. That's not the issue at all.

 

It's just terribly placed, smack in the middle of the episode, so we don't get enough time with the guys living (dialogue never went beyond what they said at the end of last episode, come the fuck on), or enough time in heaven.

 

Everything else is rushed as hell and we definitely didn't need another montage of depressed Sam, or to see Jared in that wig.

[tennisgurl]

Whether you loved or hated this finale, I think we can all agree that Miracle is a very very good boy and the episode went up several marks by his presence alone. 

[Binns]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Whether you loved or hated this finale, I think we can all agree that Miracle is a very very good boy and the episode went up several marks by his presence alone. 

Those ears ALONE!!!

[Bergamot]

25 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

On one hand, Dean Winchester, with everything he's accomplished and all the people he's saved and all the big bads he's killed, sure as hell didn't deserve to get impaled by a spike as his final death. On the other hand, there's a terrible poetry and unexpected groundedness to it. Reminded us that he was and always had been human, which renders everything he made of his mortal human life all the more remarkable for it. The manner of his permanent death doesn't diminish him or his legacy, so I feel like I'll gradually be more at peace with it over time. He still deserved at least a good decade of freedom on Earth before that happened, though. With Miracle by his side.

Thanks Babyspinach, this is beautifully said. And it is true that this does not diminish him or his legacy, as you say, so I am sure that I will also feel better about it in time. Right now it is hard though.

I am happy that Dean did get a chance to have Miracle with him for a time. But then it makes me so sad to think of how they showed that afterwards Miracle was missing Dean too! 😢

[Cindy McLennan]

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Whether you loved or hated this finale, I think we can all agree that Miracle is a very very good boy and the episode went up several marks by his presence alone. 

It made me feel better to see Miracle, too. And I was glad Sammy had him after Dean's death.

It just dawned on me, now that Supernatural is over, none of the shows I recapped for TWoP are on the air. I only did SPN for the first half of season 4, while Demian was injured. He and Tippi both covered it so well, and much longer, but I still think of it as one of my shows too. 

That might have actually dawned on me last spring, but I forgot about it until just now. 

[PAForrest]

On the upside, Jensen Ackles continued to the bitter end to be so much better than the scripts deserved, especially those of the Drabb era. I hope he will enjoy the recognition that is truly due him in everything he does from this point on.

But it's crystal clear to me what he didn't like about this ending - Dean dying an inglorious stupid death, complete with Sam being all concussed, yet again, but still managing to get up and take out all the vamps all by himself. I think Dean got one before he was completely taken over as if he'd never fought before in his entire life. Pure Dabb to the end - and that is no compliment.

So I can't blame Jensen - his character deserved a much better send-off, even without the COVID changes. I feel bad for him being so very disappointed with how his character ended. It was petty.

But he sold it like a champ and Jensen being Jensen is quite literally the only thing that made the scene work - that and Sam's grief. At least that felt genuine, and it did look like Sam really didn't enjoy his life as much as he should have with Dean being gone. The bad wigs certainly didn't help matters. Woof.

I wonder if Misha will spill this weekend as to if there were changes that eliminated him from even appearing in a cameo. At least we heard that Queen Gack bothered to save him from the Empty and bring him back to Heaven to help restructure the place. So that plot point was addressed. Still nothing as to if the Empty was eliminated or changed, but Heaven was the more important fix that had to happen. And we didn't have to endure actually seeing Gack again, which I appreciated.

I liked the scene between Dean and Original Recipe Bobby. I really hope Dean did more with his time in heaven than drive around until Sam died. The final scene between the brothers was lovely, though, I admit.

I'll have to watch this again. Not overly satisfying, but I didn't think it would be. It was pretty by-the-numbers, almost exactly as many fans predicted. But there were some well-acted scenes, and it was sweet that Dean adopted Miracle. Too bad he couldn't enjoy his company longer than he did. I think that was the saddest part of all.

Edited November 20, 2020 by PAForrest

[Slovenly Muse]

Wow. That was awful. I cried so much. I tell you, guys, I actually started fucking crying during Dean's death speech, and spent the whole second half of the episode choking out snarky comments through my tears about how much I hated it. It was a weird experience, for sure! Do you know how hard it is to weep uncontrollably in genuine sadness when Jared is wearing that wig?! (I imagine many of you do, and we will all need therapy.)

I get they had to end it, and it's not like there was ANY creative juice left in the tank. The pre-Covid part of the season sure proved that. And it was really disappointing not to get a big cast reunion for the finale... however, I will say that paring down the cast to the bare minimum created a lot of space for the Dean and Sam relationship to inhabit. They really were each other's whole lives, and everyone else was (sadly, in many cases) transitory. I think the intimacy of that dynamic was really emphasized beautifully by the lack of other people, which is to say they made the best of a pandemic situation. But it felt kind of right to make the end of their journey just about them, no matter how much I wished that they would visibly UN-bury some of those gays!

And, intentionally or not, they sure added legitimacy to Billie's plan to put everyone back where they belonged! Sam and Dean were originally on this very path: Die naturally or while hunting, and spend eternity together in heaven. Then they had to make demon deals and throw wrenches in all the works!

While this was a very bad and underwhelming finale, the more I think about it, the more I appreciate the arc of the series and how this works as a culmination of this arc. Sam and Dean take a lot of shit in the show (and from viewers) about having broken the world about as much as they've saved it, but I'm not so sure. They seem to have spent their lives stumbling through an escalating series of minefields, but turning each misstep into more of a controlled detonation, if that makes any sense. Yes, they helped Azazel to open the gates of hell, but he was going to do that anyway, with another generation of kids if not this one, and they got the gates closed before the very worst could happen. And they started the breaking of the seals and released Lucifer. But he was going to come out eventually, and they managed to prevent him (and the other angels) from destroying the world when he did. They (well, Cas) released Leviathan, but they were a ticking time bomb in Purgatory, and the Winchesters prevented them from wiping out humanity. The Mark of Cain was always going to be the cause of a mass genocide, whether by Cain or whoever else bore the mark, but they released Amara and prevented that. Amara couldn't stay locked up forever... God wasn't as benevolent as many believed... Sam and Dean seemed to idiotically stumble into every apocalyptic booby trap hidden in the darkest corners of creation, and managed to shield the world at large from taking the brunt of the damage when they did. Ultimately, they left the world a safer place than they found it. God was the final mine to clear, and then they were free. They died so many times, but now that their work is done, they finally got to die the right way, the way they always imagined: On a hunt, saving people (Dean), or out of the life, with a family (Sam), and end up in heaven together where they had belonged from the first time one of them died. The execution was poor, but the concept is something I can get behind. It's about as happy an ending as they could ever get.

I can't believe I'm going to miss this show.

[BabySpinach]

I think my biggest takeaway will be the tragedy of Dean Winchester, the most selfless and loving human in the world, never getting to truly live the life he'd deserved and earned a million times over. He's apparently happy in heaven at the end so I can't be too bitter about it, but there's definitely that potent vein of tragedy still running through Dean's story. He deserved better, but he always has. It's actually depressingly consistent of this show...

Edited November 20, 2020 by BabySpinach

[Binns]

I kinda hope the actors stay off social media. People are saying awful things. At the end of the day it’s their work that people are crapping on. I forgot how Mishamigos got when they feel wronged. 

[Cindy McLennan]

13 minutes ago, Slovenly Muse said:

And, intentionally or not, they sure added legitimacy to Billie's plan to put everyone back where they belonged! Sam and Dean were originally on this very path: Die naturally or while hunting, and spend eternity together in heaven. Then they had to make demon deals and throw wrenches in all the works!

While this was a very bad and underwhelming finale, the more I think about it, the more I appreciate the arc of the series and how this works as a culmination of this arc.

(...)

Ultimately, they left the world a safer place than they found it. God was the final mine to clear, and then they were free. They died so many times, but now that their work is done, they finally got to die the right way, the way they always imagined: On a hunt, saving people (Dean), or out of the life, with a family (Sam), and end up in heaven together where they had belonged from the first time one of them died. The execution was poor, but the concept is something I can get behind. It's about as happy an ending as they could ever get.

I can't believe I'm going to miss this show.

The execution was my biggest beef with the end of Buffy, too. I liked the narrative, as I do with SPN, but that last leg was almost painful to sit through (and SPN was on the air more than twice as long). Maybe it's too heavy a lift to end a long running show in a way fans will find fitting.

It seems to me that more than once during the run of the show, Dean said he was going to go out like this (I mean not in details, but he wasn't worried about a retirement plan and maybe even said that). 

Ah well, at the end of the day, I'm glad the writers didn't ruin Supernatural for me. They left it (for me at least) it a space where I'll be happy to revisit it, from time to time.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Cindy McLennan

[BoxManLocke]

Just watching Dean's death again and crying this time. I just wish the episode had more than that.

 

Also gonna rewatch the episode tonight with my partner, who I met through the fan communty 12 years ago. We got a kid a couple years ago and you can probably guess what his middle names are.

 

It's going to be a rough day.

[Slovenly Muse]

2 minutes ago, Cindy McLennan said:

It seems to me that more than once during the run of the show, Dean said he was going to go out like this (I mean not in details, but he wasn't worried about a retirement plan and maybe even said that). 

This exactly. He has said multiple times that he saw no way out of the life and was surprised he even survived as long as he had, and, no matter his age, I believe he would absolutely have kept hunting until it killed him. This was pretty much the only kind of death in the cards for him, so I can't be too mad.

[Cindy McLennan]

I mean, Dean won. He never had to watch his cholesterol intake.

Can you imagine Dean Winchester having to swear off bacon cheeseburgers for any significant length of time? Talk about Hell on earth. And what about once a doctor tested his liver function?

[Aeryn13]

Episode 19 was a better series finale.

The death still could have been way more climactic, even on a random hunt. And no legacy acknowledgnent to soeak of.

It should have happened after at least some time passed.

I hated parts of the speech, Dean putting himself down as the weaker brother. Meh.

Writing the Series Finale not about both brothers? Typical and final Badd. 

[Binns]

5 minutes ago, Slovenly Muse said:

This exactly. He has said multiple times that he saw no way out of the life and was surprised he even survived as long as he had, and, no matter his age, I believe he would absolutely have kept hunting until it killed him. This was pretty much the only kind of death in the cards for him, so I can't be too mad.

He was fairly miserable trying to make it work with Lisa. I think this was the only realistic end for him, as much as it pains me that he didn’t get to have a “normal” life. But for Dean, a “normal” life might have been suffocating. As long as he knew Sam would be ok, I think he was ok with this. I’m getting teary again thinking of “tell me it’s ok.”

[DollEyes]

Delurking to say that was, to quote the late comic Richard Jeni, "A big, steaming pile of 'meh'." To their credit, Jensen, Jared (and Miracle) tried to make lemonade out of dried-up, bitter-assed lemons, but not only did Dean deserve a much better death than being impaled on a spike, IMO they could've squeezed in one socially distanced shot of Cas in Heaven.

Also, if TPTB had to put Jared in a wig, the least they could've done was made it lace front.

[Myrelle]

57 minutes ago, Bergamot said:

Okay, yeah, I think maybe I can agree with this. I guess it is just hard to think of Dean being permanently dead. He was always bursting with life and vitality and love, and always found a way to enjoy the little things and share it with those around him. He would have been that way if he had lived to be 100 years old. You could see it even in the first part of this episode, with his enjoyment of having a dog and going to a pie festival and figuring out a case. It was upsetting to see him die for good. 

He was always the true tragic hero of this show to me.

Always and in every way, and yet as you said, his joy and zest for life was undeniable and would be impossible to match or duplicate.

I feel like a have lost a piece of my heart with Dean Winchester's passing.

But that said, I still don't think that Heaven will be able to hold onto him for too long. 😉

 

 

 

[catrox14]

I can't begin to express my ire o we this end. It was not good.

Dean Winchester did not deserve a piece if rebar in his back as his death. Just shitty.

And once again, Jensen stealth spoiled Dean's ending. And I love him for it.

The music seemed like a completely different show but at least Dean's Family theme played over Dean's death.

I am waiting for Sam Winchester's Gray Wig to be a Twitter handle.

[Myrelle]

47 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Episode 19 was a better series finale.

The death still could have been way more climactic, even on a random hunt. And no legacy acknowledgnent to soeak of.

It should have happened after at least some time passed.

I hated parts of the speech, Dean putting himself down as the weaker brother. Meh.

Writing the Series Finale not about both brothers? Typical and final Badd. 

Yes, we knew it would be like this, didn't we?

 

[Dobian]

Strange that they never showed who Sam's wife was, just his son.  It felt awkward.  The finale was pretty predictable, but I liked how Dean died doing what he did best, and Sam living out his full life and living the life Dean always wanted him to have.  It was an appropriate ending devoid of cliches.  Nice touch at the end with the actors thanking the fans after the final scene.  You can tell they care tremendously about the show and its fans.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Dobian

[sarthaz]

One of them had to die. They would have gone on fighting monsters forever otherwise. Dean's death gave Sam new life, a new life he never could have had otherwise. I'm not sure what the fans wanted from this. Certainly it wasn't amazing, bc Dabb, but the overall concept and tone are really the only way it could go. Either you have two brothers continue to live in isolation killing monsters until they die of old age or you separate them with finality. And if Dean had to die, I'm glad it was on a hunt, and not one of Dabb's trash story arcs.

[ahrtee]

At least Sam already had a dog this time, so he didn't have to hit one in order to settle down.  

[Myrelle]

"Don't leave me."

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The three saddest words of the ep.

IKR?

He was damaged beyond repair in some ways. 😪

[ahrtee]

4 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

"Don't leave me."

IKR?

He was damaged beyond repair in some ways. 😪

I was actually seeing it literally, and not in his general abandonment issue framework.   Sam was going outside to call for help and get the first aid kit, and Dean knew he wouldn't still be there when Sam got back (or wouldn't be able to hold on without Sam), and he desperately wanted to tell him his last words.  And imagine Sam's guilt if Dean died alone before Sam got back, which would be something Dean would want to avoid.  

[ahrtee]

Something that just occurred to me as I was trying to get to sleep:  did they ever explain why the vamps were wearing skull (or mime) masks?  Just so Dean could snark on mimes?

[Myrelle]

10 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

I was actually seeing it literally, and not in his general abandonment issue framework.   Sam was going outside to call for help and get the first aid kit, and Dean knew he wouldn't still be there when Sam got back (or wouldn't be able to hold on without Sam), and he desperately wanted to tell him his last words.  And imagine Sam's guilt if Dean died alone before Sam got back, which would be something Dean would want to avoid.  

I think it worked both ways and those last words of his about how Sam was always better and stronger than him?

Stronger how? Better how?

That whole speech was a reflection his always damaged from childhood psyche, AFAIC.  

[BK1978]

Wow that was a fast fifteen years.  I remember the day the first episode was going to air my father came into my room and said, "Do you want to watch a show about two brothers who fight creatures?"  I am not sure why that always stuck in my head but it did and I am glad I took him up on that offer. 

The last episode was okay, I would not say it was terrible and I would not say it was good.  I thought it was a fitting way to end the show.

[ahrtee]

1 minute ago, Myrelle said:

I think it worked both ways and those last words of his about how Sam was always better and stronger than him?

Stronger how? Better how?

That whole speech was a reflection his always damaged from childhood psyche, AFAIC.  

I think it was both,  too.  But the last words about Sam being better and stronger were, I think, him trying to convince Sam (and probably himself,  too) that Sam could survive without him.  It could also be the unspoken "I couldn't do it but you can," but IMO it was more reassuring himself that Sam would be fine... thus the plea of "tell me it's all right" because he couldn't let go if he thought Sam couldn't manage without him.   When my dad was dying my sister and I had to tell him directly that we would take care of mom and  that it was all right to let go,  just like Sam had to reassure Dean.  

[AwesomO4000]

2 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I've been trying to write something for a half hour, but I just can't yet.

All I can say for now is that Dean's death scene was everything in this one for me.

Still doesn't think enough of himself.

Heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking.

But the "Don't leave me." and "Tell me it's ok..." were the end of me.

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The three saddest words of the ep.

Both times. It was already sad when Dean said it, but by the time Sam said it, and I knew he wasn't going to get what he wanted, that was the part that got to me.

Didn't much appreciate the unintended parallels to the Medium finale though.

And I'll have to watch again to see if it was shown that there was a mother... but my thought was that it was probably better they didn't show Eileen, because I could imagine Dabb having her die in childbirth or something awful like that (story parallel to Sam's life, you know). Though a part of me would've liked to have seen Sam and Eileen hunting together for a time, another part was satisfied that Sam was truthful when he said he couldn't/wouldn't want to hunt without Dean (and "Mystery Spot" was a good testament to why Sam hunting alone would be a bad idea.)

Definitely didn't love it, but still not sure how I feel about it... Still thinking I'm going to end the series with the season 11 finale minus the last scene.

[Scout Finch]

Not dealing with it very well because twice it hit way too close to what I went through when I lost my mom last year, right down to telling her it was okay. I couldn't watch the end of the episode that had Charlie going to say goodbye to her mom in the hospital, either. I'm annoyed that a shoddily executed finale that I don't feel earned my emotions story-wise, triggered me in a different context. Like, the episode wasn't worthy of my tears so I'm pissed off that I'm crying...if that makes any sense at all. Last week's ending would have been perfect, damn it!!

[Slovenly Muse]

52 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

Something that just occurred to me as I was trying to get to sleep:  did they ever explain why the vamps were wearing skull (or mime) masks?  Just so Dean could snark on mimes?

Also so the actors could wear Covid masks underneath, I'm sure.

 

Oh my god, you guys, I just realized! With heaven's walls all torn down, Sam's finally getting reunited with everyone he's ever slept with! I wonder if they formed a club up there. The "Sam Winchester's penis got me killed" weekly garden party!

[kickingnames]

I read this entire thread as well as some other sites before I actually got to watch Dean’s death scene — and I was still a teary mess. I could pretty much watch the beginning, the death scene, and Sam joining Dean at the end, and be okay. Everything else seemed pointless and tacked on (which is weird since we know it wasn’t shouldn’t have felt that way). I can imagine that seeing everybody back together in heaven would have softened the blow of killing Dean before the midway point of the finale — but I’m not gonna blame the pandemic for Dabb’s inability to adjust his own writing to a compelling alternative.

[Insert caustic remarks about a series’ worth of writing that fully expected the actor’s skill to gloss over all the failures of the script — and generally got away with exactly that — here.]

I do wish they had not used that other version of “Carry On My Wayward Son” over Sam’s death. It was incredibly distracting. The version from “Fan Fiction” would have been much more tolerable there.

4 hours ago, jmonique said:

I've chosen to mentally reject this and accept only the season five finale as the finale.

I kind of hate that “Swan Song” is still a viable “series ender” — it made me so mad at the time, but unfortunately nothing’s really exceeded it as an alternative natural ending point. (Maybe season 11? I need to rewatch it.) 

[sweetandsour]

I've been limping along with the show for probably at least 5 years now, so I really don't have a personal or even emotional reaction to the ending.  I cried a little, but I cry at everything.  That's the one upside to me about shows "going on too long" (which is of course subjective) - I'm okay with it all ending, as long as the show doesn't completely disrespect the audience with the ending (which is also subjective).

So I'm just going to comment on peripheral things rather than the core of the finale.

Sam's mushroom hair is nothing new, but it looked really mushroom-y as he was living without Dean.  Basically looking like an everyday, live-action Prince Toadstool.  I was pleased to see in his ad/plug for "Walker" that he has clearly cut his hair well out of mushroom territory.  I don't know if he really wanted to, but yeah, I see how it's important for him to physically appear differently when playing a new character after 15 years.

What also got me about that awful gray/white wig was that they didn't bother to age Sam's skin at all until he was on his deathbed.  Bro is in his garage with hair like Doc Brown from "Back to the Future" got a slight trim, bought a flat iron, and accidentally got an electric shock when he unplugged the toaster (mushroom for life).  But then he's also putting La Mer cream on his face and maybe Paul Rudd's tears as well.  Did production see the aging up on the "How to Get Away with Murder" series finale and think, "wait 'til they see this?"

I get that the most important part to highlight in Sam's post-Dean montage is his son, not his wife, whoever she may be.  And it's impossible for the producers/writers to not know at this point that fans just aren't interested in seeing Dean or Sam with any particular women.  Sam should know better than to advertise his son's name so prominently on his clothes, though, like a total goober.  Obviously that's just a narrative device for us to know Sam named him Dean, but that's counter to common safety measures that Sam wouldn't just not care about.

It's most convenient for production to have Sam appear in heaven with Dean as Jared normally appears now, and maybe it can be explained as that's how Dean remembers him, but man, I would have laughed if Sam was in heaven in the old man wig and makeup.  Dean would have never let him hear the end of that.

[tessathereaper]

5 hours ago, Castiels Cat said:

Ehhhh it's Supernatural... there is always a way. He teases it because Dabb made a very bad ending.

Damn yes... where was Miracle. Dabb is Badd.

That's what I think he teases it because he can't accept THAT is the ending either.  He wants something better, something different.

I couldn't believe Miracle didn't eventually pop up next to him in the seat of the Impala.  So glad he kept the dog though, for the like WEEK he got to enjoy having a dog.

[BabySpinach]

https://sasquatchandleatherjacket.tumblr.com/post/635282840252284929

This beautiful and loving man deserved to live a long, happy life. This is one of the few (if not only) times I've genuinely cried for a fictional character, but if anyone warrants it, it's Dean. He'd only just won his freedom after a lifetime of suffering and trauma, and he could barely enjoy it before it was ripped away from him.  

Edited November 20, 2020 by BabySpinach

[tessathereaper]

4 hours ago, roctavia said:

I really just wish we could have seen them living life a bit more before he had to die... I know people hate a montage, and they tried to show us some fun stuff with pie festival, and maybe it was years of "ordinary" living before he died... but it didn't feel like it. So if they had been able to show time passing and a bunch of glimpses of hunts or something, it would have helped me know that Dean got to live a little.

I do agree with the death itself being okay. If he had died saving Sam, it would have had it's own issues... or if they had been taking on some really big bad, it wouldn't have made sense since they've already taken care of the big players.... So a sort of crazy random two inches to the left and he would have been fine death is fitting on it's own.

Not really it could have been a concerted effort by some monsters to kill The Winchesters, like a big effort and more than 4 goons in cheap masks taking out Dean Winchester who has easily taken out worse on his own.

Plus Dean didn't need to die at all, not at that point.  There was actually no reason at all to have an "ending ending" at all, I would have been perfectly happy with scene at the trunk "We have work to do".  That even with God dead there were still plenty of people to save and monsters to hunt.  This was Dabb taking his lack of spin off success on them.

ETA:  Jensen had damn good reason to not like this finale, IMO.  Dean looked like an amateur.  Jensen ACTED everything very well, I have never sobbed so hard for a fictional character, literally sobbing when he died.  But that was because it was Dean, it wasn't because the episode or the story or what Dabb wrote.  They didn't even make the hunt feel like it was important, it was impersonal.  I don't actually see any poetry in it, I see lazy, lazy Dabb who just didn't care.  He's had 15 years of character growth, while I don't think Dean ever would have settled down to an "apple pie life" I think there was plenty more he could do while living.

Edited November 20, 2020 by tessathereaper

[7kstar]

Well it wasn't as bad as I feared.  So the Easter eggs were kind of cool I guess.  Seeing the Roadhouse with Bobby.

Yeah Jensen, your first gut reaction was spot on.  The sad part just a little bit of work and this ending could have worked better. 

I remember old shows that when they ran out of money they pulled clips from the past to fill it.  Use a montage to show them enjoying life.  Since the hunt was going to be lame have it happen a little later.  Set it up better.

I almost wondered if they just forgot that they didn't have to show Sam that old when he died.  Just a hint of gray in his hair since his son was twenties or late twenties.  So Sam could be in his 60's or barely 70 and a touch of grey using his real hair.  Shoot you can age someone with just adding baby powder to the hair and just touch up his natural wrinkles to make them stand out a bit more.  So that was a major fail on the makeup crew.

i guess the masks were supposed to point to an old hunt so this group of vampires would hark to their first hunt with vampires.  But I would rewrite the fight.  Make it more dramatic and I would have rather that Dean was saving Sam when he opened himself up to being pushed on the nail.  The dramatic touch would have added depth to the death scene.  Both of them fighting the good fight but one split second it went wrong but he saved Sam so he was okay with it.  Then you could still do the death scene.

I would have liked to have seen Miracle in heaven before Sam shows up.  I know we saw the random one shot of Sam's wife but you could have have a few more.

Kripke said he would have done a regular Horror ending, something much darker...

Can it be undone, yep.  They have an out but it would take better writers to even make the attempt and without them I would leave it alone. 

Was this the worst ever, no.  Parts worked sort of.  I'll find the best part on YouTube.  But I won't be watching any shows on the CW anymore.   I expected a lame ending but it was better than I expected.

I did like the scene with Bobby, the scene with the dog, The cast and crew on the bridge at the end.  I'm glad they did end with the boys together. 

But for me, God and Amara left together happy, and I would end it with Mom being brought back and just ignore what they did with Mom and the stories they did.  Might be a few worth watching but like many shows I'll give it some time before I go back and watch them again.  Many of you have pointed out excellent points so for now I'll stop.  I'm glad it worked out better than I thought it would.

 

 

[tessathereaper]

1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

I think it worked both ways and those last words of his about how Sam was always better and stronger than him?

Stronger how? Better how?

That whole speech was a reflection his always damaged from childhood psyche, AFAIC.  

Yes I really disliked that part(and naturally again and Sam never had any dialogue(I don't maybe some dialogue to that kid of his telling him about his Uncle Dean and talking about how great he was?  Sam really never was given anything nice to say about Dean unless he was trying to get something from Dean(like the Trials).  And no I'm blaming it on Sam this time, I'm blaming it on the writers.  Yet more of their rushed, not thought out, crappy writing, even for a finale they knew was coming for over a year.  Dean Winchester just deserved better..

Edited November 20, 2020 by tessathereaper

[Hana Chan]

As a writer, this wasn't the ending that I would have written for the boys. And the series deserved a two hour ending (instead of one final regular episode and a retrospective). That would have given some space to let the boys have a little life free of destiny before the hammer fell.

But overall, I'm not mad at it (not like I was with GOT). Dean's death was a sad accident, but after a lifetime of being twisted about by forces outside his control, he was finally free. His heaven was pretty perfect, with all of the people that he loved and a very short wait until his brother/soulmate arrived. As for Sam... he lived the life that Dean wanted him to but it was obvious that he missed Dean every moment of his life. And when he died, after raising his son and living all the long years, it was a relief.  Personally, I think that Dean got the better ending, because he didn't have to mourn his brother forever but in the end, the boys are back together where they belong.

Acting wise, both Jared and Jensen totally hit it out of the park and while I'm going to quibble with a lot of the details, they totally sold it. The show began where it ended, with the brothers reunited and never to be separated again and I'm okay with that.

Sure, I'll nitpick the flaws later on, but for now I'm just going to look back on the 15 years that I've invested in this show. It's annoyed me and frustrated me but what kept me around was Sam and Dean. Thanks boys... it was a hell of a ride.

[Jediknight]

6 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Oh, and Miracle is definitely the Cutest Dog Ever.  

 

Miracle is an adorable dog, and without a doubt a good boy who deserves all the pats on the head, but he's not the cutest dog ever.  That honor still goes to puppy Carmine from Human Target.

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Whether you loved or hated this finale, I think we can all agree that Miracle is a very very good boy and the episode went up several marks by his presence alone. 

Indeed, if Miracle wasn't gonna pop up in Heaven, would have been nice to see him with Sam and his son, or a dog where it's clear it's Miracle's baby.

[companionenvy]

I didn't hate it, but it felt very paint by numbers.

Some good:

-Confirmation that heaven is fixed, and that Cas isn't consigned to the Empty forever! Yay!

-The impala in heaven with the original plates, especially juxtaposed with Sam on Earth with the version with the newer plates.

-The use of Brothers in Arms. How did I never think of how perfect that would be for this show?

-Dean's "I love that song," and the placement of "Carry on My Wayward Son" more generally.

-Sam's son having the tattoo, which also leaves a little bit of ambiguity about how far Sam distanced himself from hunting. 

-Dean's joy in the pies, and the pie in the face gag. Just nice to see them having some fun.

-Miracle!

Some bad:

-Dean telling Sam he looked up to him, and that Sam is stronger. The latter was just unnecessary--I don't think it is true, and neither should Dean at this point--and the former was downright silly. Dean is four years older than Sam. He may have, even in their younger days, respected him on some level for his resistance to John, but he definitely wasn't "looking up to him" for most of their lives, and his anger at him for breaking with the family business wasn't all a defence mechanism. 

-The fact that Dean seems to have died so quickly after the events of last week. I have no problem with him dying on a random hunt, and don't think it takes anything away from his legacy; they aren't immortal and even their cake runs are extremely dangerous. But I'd really like to have had some sense that they had at least a semi-extended period of enjoyment before that happened. 

- The old age makeup.

And the meh:

I find "and they all lived happily ever after in heaven" endings kind of cheap and hollow. Not bad, per se, especially on a show with an established, developed concept of heaven, but given that I have to live in the ordinary world where the best most of us can do is hope that there's something good after we die, it isn't that satisfying to me on a human level to get an ending that rests so heavily on the afterlife. It kind of begs the question of why, in that case, we should care so much about what's going on in Earth. Like, if the vast majority of your existence is taking place in heaven, why does it even matter so much if you get twenty or thirty years more or less on Earth? I suppose Sam couldn't have had a kid if he'd died with Dean, but I'm not seeing anything that would have stopped him from finding a romantic partner (new or old!) in heaven. Or taking up a new hobby, or travelling, or doing any of the many other things that make life meaningful on Earth. I guess there are a number of high-stakes things you can't replicate in heaven: you don't need doctors or scientists, for instance, and since you presumably can't die again, that makes a lot of things less urgent--but again, if death means that you go to heaven, death on Earth is a lot less urgent, too. 

In the world of this show, I think it still could have largely worked if the mythology of the show had ever included TFW, in any of its configurations, mounting a sustained rebellion against Memorex Heaven. As it is, what Dean and Sam did over the course of the show still mattered a lot, because the result of all of their various encounters with angels and demons and gods is what enabled Heaven 2.0. But even though that's true, without specific, proximate investment in reforming heaven, it isn't that dramatically satisfying. Logically, I can say "Wow. The Winchesters were key players in all of these apocalyptic events that ended in the replacement of Guck with a better god, who reformed heaven." But emotionally, it just doesn't feel all that weighty, since the issue of heaven sucking hadn't really been one the show had deal with for a while. It was all, understandably, about saving the human world. But then you can't have it both ways, and expect us to be delighted with an ending that is so heaven-directed.

So again: was it terrible? No. I'm basically OK with this as the end for Sam and Dean. But it doesn't feel like an especially organic end to their journeys. A reasonable enough conclusion, sure, but not one where you feel that all the narrative and emotional dots have slotted into place.

 

[trudysmom]

Woke up this morning still hungover from last night's ending and all the feels.  Two things hit me right away.  One, I may have been better able to get on board with it if it hadn't felt so rushed.  Sam's life shown in litte snippets of passing time didn't seem like Sam to me.  I knew it was Sam, but it went by so fast, that when he died all I could muster was it was nice his son told him it was ok to go, like he did with Dean.  And two, that Dean was finally, if not stabbed in the back, then the closest thing to it, so I'm sure Badd and his stable of hack writers are happy.  

[Terese]

7 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

And so ends the last original WB Network program.

Jared Padelecki is a better actor than people give him credit for. Sam holding a dying Dean, his reaction to the call, the shutting down of the bunker.  (Yeah, the shutting down of the bunker really hurt my heart.)  And him being alone in the Impala.  And him dying in bed with his son by his side. 

It did frustrate me that we didn't see Cas in Heaven.  I mean, it's implied that Jack saved Cas from The Nothing, but I wish he could have been there.  That, and Dean Winchester getting killed by a stupid spike!

I think Neil Gaiman wrote, "If you let a story go on long enough, it will inevitably end in death."  Yeah, this was a sad finale, but it was a beautiful sadness. 

Yes, this was flawed, but it's not flawed enough for me hate the series as the whole, unlike Game of Thrones which I will not revisit.  The difference between the two finales is that with GoT it seemed the whole last season was antagonizing the fans for "liking certain characters we weren't supposed to" along with being slipshod in production and story.  With Supernatural, I think they were hampered with what happened with the Coronavirus along with the network splitting season 15 in half.  So,  I'll be taking Supernatural over GoT any day.

Jared absolutely nailed it. My heart broke over and over for him. 

[gonzosgirrl]

My take away after sleeping on it is that I have zero doubt now that it was Jensen who pulled the plug, and this was the price. 

 

9 minutes ago, Terese said:

Jared absolutely nailed it. My heart broke over and over for him. 

I'm sure this is what we'll be hearing from Jensen at cons from now til eternity. 

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

(Of course, he should have been bald, which I guess would have gotten more screams from his fans.) 

I guess Mary must have given him the X chromosome she got from Deanna.

[gonzosgirrl]

37 minutes ago, trudysmom said:

Woke up this morning still hungover from last night's ending and all the feels.  Two things hit me right away.  One, I may have been better able to get on board with it if it hadn't felt so rushed.  Sam's life shown in litte snippets of passing time didn't seem like Sam to me.  I knew it was Sam, but it went by so fast, that when he died all I could muster was it was nice his son told him it was ok to go, like he did with Dean.  And two, that Dean was finally, if not stabbed in the back, then the closest thing to it, so I'm sure Badd and his stable of hack writers are happy.  

If I thought Badd cared anything about it, I'd wonder if it was supposed to be symmetry with Sam's first 'death'. 

But naw, I think it was a petty writer's gotcha. 

[Katy M]

7 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Maybe his "happily ever after" wasn't all that happy, and they were divorced?  (Otherwise, I would wonder that Sam wouldn't want to spend eternity with her rather than Dean.)  

FWIW, he was still wearing his wedding ring when he got in the car and took his glasses off.

I think much like in Dark Side of the Moon, where we only saw Sam have two memories and they don't include Dean and had they been in Heaven longer, Dean would have been in his memories, I think that after they get done looking at the sunset, or whatever they're doing, they'll go be with other people also.  Including Eileen assuming she predeceased Sam.  And, of course, their parents.  Maye Sam can get some closure and apologize to Jessica for getting her killed (no, not on purpose).

[PAForrest]

52 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm sure this is what we'll be hearing from Jensen at cons from now til eternity. 

Jensen is way too self-deprecating, especially when it comes to JP, like he feels he has to be. Hopefully with everyone moving on in their separate lives he'll stop doing that sooner than later. Because without Jensen Ackles giving everything to a script that wasn't good enough for him and quite blatantly did not do right by his 15 year iconic character, as he always felt it didn't, this episode would have really sucked.