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  1. Yeah I can't say I found the IMDB boards biased in particular, it's just that it was one of the few places Dean fans weren't pushed out or silenced simply for existing. I remember on one board(can't remember the name anymore but it was one of the most popular independent SPN boards of the time and had tens of thousands of posts) the mods actually used to delete threads and posts on the Dean and Jensen boards so it wouldn't look like he was getting more posts than Sam and Jared. But tumblr and twitter is the place to be for the hate if that's what you want.
  2. I almost responded to the tweet, "sounds like Jared might have been pretty hungover himself!" I could understand it if Jared and Jensen barely knew each other but after years of being on a show together and even living together at one point during filming, not sure how one would make that mistake. LOL
  3. The CW SPN instagram posted congratulations and Jensen briefly responded with a thank you. http://www.instagram.com/p/CJ7QEQpsCKm/
  4. Yeah I figure that has more to do with the loonies, they all have his phone number they can text him.
  5. I can't think of any off the top of my head but pretty much any storyline that was Dean's or Dean focused eventually gets pushed off to someone else to finish or do better or something. And yeah I remember that Whore of Babylon one, wasn't it a "True Servant of God" or something like that. Cas even explicitly says "oh its not going to be you needs to be a true servant of god(or whatever)" but then Dean IS able to kill her. And it's just....dropped. Dean's the only one, the only one, oh except actually anyone else can do this, we don't need Dean at all, lets cut him out completely or have him holding their jacket while they take his place.
  6. It's so depressing. Then it was like he didn't even matter. We were shown none of their friends reaction with grief, because we never saw Sam call and tell anyone and forget about funeral(covid's no excuse, they could have used some of the crew for the background crowd and then either had one or two recurring friends quarantine or just green screen them in, the technology has improved immensly and is cheaper now then even when they did it with John in the Season 2 finale 14 years earlier. Meanwhile Sam gets to live a long life, names his unworthy kid Dean(sorry NO one would be worthy, except possibly one of Dean's own children).
  7. And the thing is Dean was a child too, DEAN was a potential victim of the striga too. He didn't even seem to think of Dean as a child, or that Dean was in danger, just that he'd "failed" at doing something John wasn't even TRYING to do. Oh I think you are right he was there more often then he wasn't but I think he was probably absent more often as the years went by, you know less when they were younger, more when they were older, but I think they were probably left on a fairly regular basis. There are 52 weeks in a year, let's say he's gone for 20 weeks in a particular year, there are still 32 weeks for him to train them and generally berate them. That's plenty of time. And 20 weeks out of a year is STILL alot of weeks to leave. Or heck even 12 weeks is a lot. He shouldn't be leaving them alone for extended periods of time. We also know that occasionally he did leave them with other people, he left them with Bobby sometimes, seems like he left them with Pastor Jim sometimes. Pastor Jim may well have trained them too and not given him push back like Bobby ended up doing that time when he let Dean play catch instead of shooting practice. Plus when he was with them, he was STILL hunting. So it was him "working" all sorts of irregular hours and generally probably not around when they wanted him or needed, him training them when he wasn't working, and then some "fairly non drama filled" times when he was around. And then there were significant periods of time when he was NOT around and Dean was left responsible. And I imagine there were some times, particularly when they were younger, where he would leave them with a "friend" like Bobby or Pastor Jim(or there was that woman who was their babysitter in that one episode). I mean we know of a number of times, throughout various ages of their lives they were alone - the Shtriga episode, the Christmas episode, whatever the time was when Dean got arrested for stealing peanut butter and bread, the Afterschool Special, Dean was legally an adult by then but it had clearly been normal for John to be leaving for a long time even prior to that. I can't remember if John was home or not during the "Weechesters" episode this season, the season is still too traumatic for details. 🙂 There may have been others times over the seasons where it was mentioned, even if the episode wasn't about it. But they were all presented as being pretty much "normal" for them to be left by John so while IMO John would have been there certainly more often then he was gone, he still gone a lot.
  8. Yeah cops have done worse for less. I'm quite sure they knew because Jensen and Jared were both friendly with that Austin police officer, quite good friends with him and went to some police fundraisers, so I'm sure they knew who Jared was. Also Walker was picked up and he was going to be filming in Austin, lots of potential money for the city so between friends in high places AND friends in other high places, that's probably why it was relatively speaking swept up quietly.
  9. Are you saying Dean imagined John's abuse? John "not meaning" to be abusive doesn't make it any less abuse. I'm pretty sure most abusive parents don't go into it thinking they are abusive. They aren't sitting down and logically thinking "well I will blame my child and I'll build myself up so that way I can feel more in control". In fact many of them are thinking they mean well, they are toughening the kid up, getting em ready for the real world, yada yada yada. Plenty of excuses and rationalizations and I'm quite John had plenty of those. We were actually shown what happened and it was what Dean said. John expression was as angry(along with upset for Sam) as Dean said. If anything what we saw throughout the first couple season was that Dean was a LOT easier on John than John, by and large, deserved He mostly tried to focus on the rare moments when something good happened or make excuses for his father's behavior or you know, blame himself because he deserved it(see Shtriga episode. 9 year old Dean shouldn't have been left alone with a 5 year old, given a gun and told shoot first ask questions later--and we know now Dean had been well trained with a gun since he was at least 6 per No Exit in Season 2--for 3 days alone in a motel room in the first place, it was in no way HIS responsibility and he actually did a great job managing to make it for 3 whole days cooped up in a motel room with a 5 year old, being responsible for his well being and all he did was walk across the parking lot to play a video game for a little while, he was THERE, John is the one who wasn't. John was at fault for all of it. They were both John's responsibility. John failed and allowed Dean to take the blame for it. Dean didn't make up what he went through. Dean protected Sam from worst of it(and Sam's life as a child wasn't exactly a bed of roses either after all) so if anything Dean's memories are going to include things that Sam's don't but did actually happen. Also I'm pretty sure that John "ran" almost right away after Mary's death, he saw his wife burn on the ceiling, pretty sure he didn't need anything else to spook him, he went to Missouri(who lived in Lawrence) not long afterwards, and from they were gone, looking for whatever killed Mary. Being abused doesn't mean not having a personality. I mean after all it's those little moments of personality the abuser usually exploits as an excuse for more obvious abuse("you made me do it, it's for your own good" whatever). Dean still being a little bit of a 9 year old at 9 years old doesn't mean he wasn't still being abused and parentified(and that is abuse, esp to the extent he was). The point of the episode actually is the shrtiga incident was presented as one of the ways Dean was "convinced", one of the final slats on the ladder that took away any sort of "normal" he might have still had in his childhood, he had to listen to John, be a "good little soldier", because otherwise his brother, his family could die and it would be his fault. John not systematically planning it that way doesn't mean he wasn't perfectly happy to use it to his advantage afterwards which he clearly did and THAT is abuse. The episode was not presented at Dean being unreliable but as Dean being right about why John sent them on the hunt and right about the way John reacted when he was a child. Dean was the child and John USED him. John used him as a replacement parent, a replacement partner, put adult responsibilities on a child's shoulders from a very young age so HE could get revenge(and whatever other excuses he gave himself), regularly neglected both of them by leaving them alone for increasingly long periods of time with Dean having the responsibility to protect and take care of them. There was nothing about Dean in the season 1 finale and saying John would have been angry for what he'd done that was presented as some sort of point of view thing. It was presented as fact and afterwards what we were presented about John FIT with what Dean said. John's behavior as DEAN is bleeding in in the backseat pretty much supports it. He doesn't give a damn about what Dean is doing, he's pissed off they didn't get the YED. He's not even really thinking about Dean. If Dean was any sort of priority to him, he'd have been in the backseat with him. Even just to be near in case Dean needed something or just to hold his hand, something, for his severely injured son. You normally would have to almost drag parents away from seriously injured children, even adult ones. Instead he's sitting in the front seat, arguing with Sam about not killing him and saying NOTHING is more important than killing the YED. I'm pretty sure we're supposed to be horrified by John's behavior and see how it matches up with what Dean said about John would have been angry with him for wasting a bullet. It's not like the "time jump" was a week, it was long enough to get Dean into the car and start driving. Oh he showed some real emotion towards Dean in In My Time of Dying. When Dean was actually DYING? Even abusive parents can love their kids or do something to protect them, doesn't make them less abusive. Also in Dead Man's Blood, their dynamic is established, we were getting a little microcosm of how it was - so John criticizing Dean for the car in the way he did wasn't just "oh well every parent does that once in a while" it was presented in a specific context which is used by abusive parents. They aren't saying "well it's a one time thing", it's not usually like this, it's presented as the norm, we getting insight into their dynamic. When Dean stands up to John, THAT is presented as a unusual. And again we see more of this in In My Time of Dying - when Dean is literally invisible, it's a call back to that previous episode and how Dean is "invisible" during John and Sam's fight, invisible in the sense that his concerns and feelings aren't even really part of the equation, he's just the peacemaker they depend on hold everything together without even really realizing that is what is happening. It's kind of used as a metaphor. He's still doing it, in his spirit form, when he breaks the glass to break up their argument. It also fits in with YED "Even when he fights with Sam it's more than he shows he cares about you". Dean feels that way because he was raised that way, by an emotionally abusive parent, not because it's all in his head and he's exaggerating some minor infractions. Actually those 4 episodes, Dead Man's Blood, Salvation, Devil's Trap and In My Time of Dying, are repeating the themes, there are things in all of them which tie into other things, some of them are literal, some of them are metaphorical. Overall given the whole of what we are shown over the course of the show, is that Dean was actually easier on his father than his father deserved, because it's not uncommon for a person raised in that situation to defend the parent they were forced into the parentified relationship with and we see him sort of start working through that throughout the show. Now I realize we were specifically talking about Season 1 in my original post and how what we found out about John's abuse later was set up in Season 1 and thus I didn't find it surprising, but it doesn't change the fact that what was presented throughout the course of the show is John as emotionally abusive parent and heavily implied to have been physically abusive at times to Dean. IMO there isn't really an argument in this regard. John was abusive. The show was clear on that and probably only wasn't clearer with regards to the physical abuse part(because people still tend to think in terms of THAT being the unforgivable form from which there is no return even though emotional abuse causes scars every bit as deep)) because they wanted to leave at least a little room to maybe get a guest spot by JDM at some point and knew he'd never come back if that was in there. John left his kids alone for increasingly long periods of time, at least a couple of weeks by the time Dean was 12(Christmas episode) with little to no contact, which is abuse in and of itself. In the season 4 Heaven episode where we found Sam ran away and Dean's reaction to his own memory of how John reacted was pretty much terror and very clearly suggestive of physical abuse. But yes I suppose Dean was exaggerating THAT too and John wasn't really all that angry or violent about it. Yeah I'm not sympathetic to John and his child abuse. Absolutely did not need to do that or treat his children that way. He was more concerned about getting revenge then anything else. He could be horrified by what happened to his wife without also abusing the children they had together. There is no "mean well" in most of what he did it was pure selfishness, it was not caring about his kids as much as he cared about his revenge. It was not John doing his best, it was John doing pretty much the bare minimum to keep his kids alive, while also putting them in great danger on a regular basis. John could have found out about the supernatural, devoted himself to learning about it, while still giving his children a fairly stable life if he'd put THEIR safety ahead of his need for revenge. John occasionally doing a "grand gesture" doesn't make him any less of an abusive parent. John being will to die to get rid of the YED doesn't change it. John selling his soul for Dean's life doesn't change it. (I mean hey I'm glad he did but in some ways it was just a continuation, he dropped all that responsibility, HIS responsibility, with almost NO information beyond "save Sam or kill him" on Dean and then promptly died, honestly I wouldn't put it past him to have been glad it wasn't his relieved it wasn't his responsibility anymore while not really considering what it put on Dean when his whole life he'd pounded into Dean's head that he MUST protect Sam at all costs, even if he felt in some way this would save Sam in the end, he's STILL using Dean as his instrument and not thinking about Dean as an individual, just what he can do for him and Sam). Yes, this was when it first really outright presented and IMO I think that was meant to be, especially given what we saw when we got some real actual John content in the last 3 eps of the season.
  10. Yeah I mean IMO nothing about John really shocked me. I know people think he was thrown under the bus but I think most of it was set up in Season 1, it was just a matter of adding details. There were already hints that he'd possibly hit Dean(Dean's reaction to Sam's a little more tequila a little less hunting in...I think Nightmare), we were already seeing him leaving a 9 year old and a 5 year old alone in a motel for 3 days, no sanctioned help except Pastor Jim who was hundreds of miles away(and this was before cell phones so they really had NO way to contact John) and it was clearly already a pretty regular thing. We saw him blame it on Dean. And it was only reasonable that the older they got the more often that would happen, the more they'd be left alone, etc. We already heard about his drinking in Season 1. And then when they were all together in those final episodes? Is it really all that shocking that John would have ignored Sam's phone call in Faith when Dean was laying 2 feet from him, in the back seat of the car bleeding to death, after a demon in JOHN's body, had tortured him and he didn't give a DAMN. Not to mention Dean knew John was a demon because the demon was NICER! He knew John was have abused him, not praised him, for what he did. And as you mentioned the thing with the Impala that is such a red flag. That is very typical of abusive parent child relationships, "I gave you this, you got this from me, anything good you got is from me and you can't take care of it/do it properly without me around". Basically I gave you this good thing and if you don't do as I say I can take it away. It's all about ego and control. "I would have given it to you if I'd known you'd ruin" - it's mine, you only have it because of me, and you can't take care of it as well I can. And notice this is all right after his fight with Sam, to make himself feel better and more in control he takes it out on Dean, whom he has brow beaten, trained, brainwashed, what have you, into not disobeying or questioning him lest he be responsible for his family's death. How often did he do that in other situations, not just fights with Sam? A bad hunt, take it out on Dean so he can feel in control again. Have a fight with some fellow hunter sick of John's crap? Take it out on Dean. So to me most of what we learned later didn't shock me, because the groundwork was set in Season 1. It's just uglier hearing the actual details.
  11. IMO it would still seem bad. This isn't some sitcom and it wasn't a procedural, so if I watched the first and last episodes of a show, esp a genre show, and the first episode and last episode were virtually the same in the sense of the characters apparently showing no growth, there being no other relationships of any importance, etc esp knowing there were FIFTEEN years in between? And let's face it most viewers are not "just happening to tune in" to a random episode even casual viewers are usually regular viewers, even if they aren't fandom level viewers, they have been following the story and character development in a basic way. I'd assume, having watched ONLY the first and last episode and seeing the above, no change, that it had been a terrible show and the head actor or the producer was the child of a studio head who was just able to keep renewing the show out of nepotism. Now obviously as a random viewer who knew nothing but those episodes I wouldn't particular CARE, it would be more a casual observation, but I would be able to recognize it wasn't good.
  12. I watched Justified and it's not really true. The show didn't change genres or something so it's not like it was hugely different but there was growth and it didn't end where it started. Also Raylan lived, heck even Boyd who was kind of his nemesis but sort of....complicated relationship, lived. He didn't get killed off by conveniently placed rebar on a hunt he should have been able to do in his sleep and no one ever claimed his skills were only "plot armor". That makes a HUGE difference.
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