S05.E03: Changes

[ams1001]

15 minutes ago, himela said:

I think in the first season she had said she couldn't have kids.

I think she even mentioned when she originally told Kevin (at the end of last season) that she never thought she'd be able to have kids. (I guess she didn't mention why, but an eating disorder/being underweight can certainly affect your fertility.)

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Just a reminder that hair touching does not necessarily mean disrespect. 

The disrespect has to do with boundary violations.

Some white people think that black people somehow are there for their entertainment and feel they have a right to touch bodies and hair of a black person they don't know.

Some people also feel that way about pregnant women, touching the belly of a pregnant woman they don't know WTF?

Some men think that women are their for their entertainment and think nothing of touching the hair of a woman they don't know.  

I can see children doing this because they don't know any better, but there's no excuse for a grown person to touch someone they don't know.

[hookedontv]

1 hour ago, himela said:

I think in the first season she had said she couldn't have kids.

I think you're right.

After she and Kevin hooked up, Madison told Kate that at one point Kevin held her upside down during their sexy time so maybe that was the trick! 🤣

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Tango64 said:

I've watched every episode and just read all four pages here, yet I don't know who Lauren is or who the woman in the picture is. Sometimes it feels like my brain just says, "No. That's enough. Too much to decipher here. Just watch these people stress over several decades and go to bed."

Lauren is Randall's birth mother; she is also the woman in the picture.  Whoa, I'm 61 and I got that right!

[ItCouldBeWorse]

28 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Lauren is Randall's birth mother; she is also the woman in the picture.  Whoa, I'm 61 and I got that right!

It's Laurel, not Lauren.

When this happens to me, I Google search the name of the character + the name of the show, and the answer almost always appears.

If you use "Lauren" instead of "Laurel" in the search, it is the 3rd entry.

[PRgal]

41 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

The disrespect has to do with boundary violations.

Some white people think that black people somehow are there for their entertainment and feel they have a right to touch bodies and hair of a black person they don't know.

Some people also feel that way about pregnant women, touching the belly of a pregnant woman they don't know WTF?

Some men think that women are their for their entertainment and think nothing of touching the hair of a woman they don't know.  

I can see children doing this because they don't know any better, but there's no excuse for a grown person to touch someone they don't know.

And boundaries can be different, depending on culture (and it isn't just physical touch.  Questions, too.  The host (who was of South Asian heritage.  And based on his accent, not someone who was raised in Canada) at a restaurant I went to a few years ago asked me about my last name, since it didn't "match" my heritage.  It's my married name.  He, being a random person I'll probably see only once or twice (we're not regulars there), shouldn't have asked me that.  I have also had random people ask me if I'm of XYZ heritage, always people who weren't born/raised here and almost always assuming I'm of whatever heritage they are).  I will give it a pass if it's someone from abroad - as long as you tell them not to do it.  But the teacher?  She should know.  

[Miss Bones]

19 hours ago, marceline said:

Thoughts...

• I've always wanted to kiss someone like you." That was a gut punch. As a black woman who grew up in a white suburb it's true. Fetishization is a real thing.
• "Put my/your foot in it - "screwed up" "Put my/your foot up in X" = "kicked its ass" The "up" is the difference. That's my understanding and all I intend to contribute to the debate. 🙂
• Madison's discussion of what it was like to be pregnant with an eating disorder FLOORED me. I'd completely forgotten about her bulimia and I'm glad the show brought it up again. It was a good reminder that so many of us have hidden struggles. She's not just pregnant, she's pregnant with twins. That said, I agree with whoever above said that Madison feels like a completely different character now.
• The whole Laurel thing means nothing to me but that food that Vietnamese grandad was cooking definitely looked good. Between that and Beth's pancakes the food on this show looks good on camera. Kudos to whoever is in charge of that.
• Kate/Toby's diaper debate was stupid. When each of my nieces were born, I bought all the diapers I could so their parents could stock up. That wasn't "hoarding." It was reality. Especially because the youngest was a preemie so I had to go to baby stores in order to buy them.
• Rebecca/Mandy's messing up putting the funyuns on the table made me smile. It felt like a possible outtake that got left in and I 'm a sucker for those.

I must have missed this-- What happened?  I only remember Kate telling her that her friend likes Bagel Bites, not Funyuns.  

[Tango64]

3 minutes ago, Miss Bones said:

I must have missed this-- What happened?  I only remember Kate telling her that her friend likes Bagel Bites, not Funyuns.  

She kind of fumbled the bowl as she set it down on the table, and reacted with a small smile like she knew she had messed up. But she went on and they left it in. Sort of an endearing, real moment.

[Neurochick]

39 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It's Laurel, not Lauren.

When this happens to me, I Google search the name of the character + the name of the show, and the answer almost always appears.

If you use "Lauren" instead of "Laurel" in the search, it is the 3rd entry.

Thanks yes it's Laurel!

I wonder if Laurel is alive in the present.  Because we don't know if the grandfather and granddaughter are in the past, the present or the future.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It's Laurel, not Lauren.

As long as it's not Yanny I'm happy 😁

[chitowngirl]

I thought for sure when Kate and Toby were done bickering and turned toward baby mama, she would be long gone.

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I wonder if Laurel is alive in the present.  Because we don't know if the grandfather and granddaughter are in the past, the present or the future.

I think we can say with reasonable confidence that the grandfather and granddaughter are in the present. Laurel looked like she was in her 20s when she gave birth to Randall, so if she's still alive, she would be in her 60s. The grandfather seems to be around the same age, so I don't think this is a flash forward like with Rebecca's deathbed or Baby Jack all grown up.

[CrystalBlue]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

It's Laurel, not Lauren.

When this happens to me, I Google search the name of the character + the name of the show, and the answer almost always appears.

If you use "Lauren" instead of "Laurel" in the search, it is the 3rd entry.

I wish I could double Like this post with the Useful light bulb as well, but quoting should suffice.  As they say on the Internet, "Google is your friend."

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, chitowngirl said:

I thought for sure when Kate and Toby were done bickering and turned toward baby mama, she would be long gone.

She should have been gone!  Run, Ellie, Run!  I think because she stayed put and accepted the ride from Toby and Kate, some people think she might be running a scam.  Also, it will be interesting if Mr. Match.com turns out to be somehow related to the Pearsons -- or the Damons for that matter.  Kevin Pearson, where were you and what were you doing on the night of ... ?!  We know Randall is faithful to Beth, so for all the Randall bashing, there is that.  Jack's dead.  Nicky is MIA again.  The Vietnamese grandfather?  Certainly not!

[marceline]

Something I find interesting about the debate over Tess and her reaction to her teacher touching her hair is that we are just going by her anger at having her hair touched...

We don't know what happened.

We didn't get to see the interaction for ourselves and we didn't get to hear Tess describe it. We don't know if this was a case of a clueless white woman fascinated by Black hair or just a huggy, touchy teacher who needs some boundary setting. I had one of those. She was huggy and usually that came with a head pat. (Yes, that was the 70s and I know rules are different now. but still...) Tess says that the teacher touches the hair of Black students but we don't know if it's only Black students.

None of us know what really happened. All we have is Tess "you refuse to use cage free eggs" Pearson's point of view. Through that whole conversation I wondered "Are we going to get a flashback?" Part of me wonders if they planned to film the scene but we lost that to COVID.

Edited November 13, 2020 by marceline

[debraran]

55 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

She should have been gone!  Run, Ellie, Run!  I think because she stayed put and accepted the ride from Toby and Kate, some people think she might be running a scam.  Also, it will be interesting if Mr. Match.com turns out to be somehow related to the Pearsons -- or the Damons for that matter.  Kevin Pearson, where were you and what were you doing on the night of ... ?!  We know Randall is faithful to Beth, so for all the Randall bashing, there is that.  Jack's dead.  Nicky is MIA again.  The Vietnamese grandfather?  Certainly not!

I thought it was a joke and they were going to laugh. That was real? Good Lord.  She didn't care about their son and how that might effect adoption being so young and needy? Too weird for TIU even if all the blanks aren't in.

Private LIfe on Netflix was a very good movie following a couple that is infertile doing IVP and private adoption. https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/private_life_2018 

Edited November 13, 2020 by debraran

[debraran]

1 hour ago, marceline said:

Something I find interesting about the debate over Tess and her reaction to her teacher touching her hair is that we are just going by her anger at having her hair touched. We don't know what happened. We didn't get to see the interaction for ourselves and we didn't get to hear Tess describe the specifics of what happened. We don't know if this was a case of a clueless white woman fascinated by Black hair or just a huggy, touchy teacher who needs some boundary setting. I had one of those. She was huggy and usually that came with a head pat. (Yes, that was the 70s and I know rules are different now. but still...) Tess says that the teacher touches the hair of Black students but we don't know if it's only Black students.

None of us know what really happened. All we have is Tess "you refuse to use cage free eggs" Pearson's point of view. Through that whole conversation I wondered "Are we going to get a flashback?" Part of me wonders if they planned to film the scene but we lost that to COVID.

Maybe but I feel she meant only black girls. I was facinated and horrified by a google search that brought up articles from black parents and hair touching, hair cutting and harassment about hair.

I think the writers had lots of material. There are dozens of articles and these aren't the best but first 4

 https://educolor.org/dont-touch-hair-chronicles-black-girls-education/

https://www.parentsfordiversity.com/post/touching-black-hair-as-micro-aggression

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/01/25/black-student-mason-left-embarrassed-after-white-teacher-asked-touch-her-hair/1057161001/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2020/01/08/stop-asking-black-people-if-you-can-touch-their-hair/?sh=5d9d4aef50a7

Edited November 13, 2020 by debraran

[ams1001]

48 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

She should have been gone!  Run, Ellie, Run!  I think because she stayed put and accepted the ride from Toby and Kate, some people think she might be running a scam. 

I was reading comments on a recap and someone mentioned that they thought their daughter in the flash forward looked a few years older than adult baby Jack (and possibly referred to him as her little brother, but I don't remember that), and someone else confirmed that in real life she is 30 and he's 27. Not that that necessarily means anything in TV world but perhaps Ellie is a red herring and they ultimately adopt a toddler/pre-school age child instead of a newborn. (This is purely speculation; I have no spoilery insights.)

[marceline]

9 minutes ago, debraran said:

Maybe but I feel she meant only black girls.

I felt it too but we don't know. We just don't.

She's a volatile teenager living in the age of COVID. That video was a year ago. So now we need to trust her representation of a year-old event. That's asking a lot. 

Just to be clear, I mention this because I think it's an example of how the virus has affected storytelling on this show. I think that in a non-COVID world the audience would've gotten more information in the form of a flashback or Tess' recounting. 

 

[Neurochick]

21 minutes ago, marceline said:

I felt it too but we don't know. We just don't.

Well, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.  I didn't need to see a flashback to know what Tess meant.  Those links speak for themselves.

I don't think that COVID should be an excuse to discount what a young black girl has to say, sorry.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Neurochick

[marceline]

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Well, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.  I didn't need to see a flashback to know what Tess meant.  Those links speak for themselves.

I don't think that COVID should be an excuse to discount what a young black girl has to say, sorry.

Except it doesn't look like a duck because we didn't get to see what happened.

It doesn't quack like a duck because we never got to hear Tess describe the specifics of what happened.

Quote

I don't think that COVID should be an excuse to discount what a young black girl has to say, sorry.

Seriously? 

It is when the young black girl - who is a fictional character BTW - might have lost scenes illuminating her point of view because the show couldn't film them due to a real life global pandemic that has killed lots of Black people.

 

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Well, if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.  I didn't need to see a flashback to know what Tess meant.  Those links speak for themselves.

I don't think that COVID should be an excuse to discount what a young black girl has to say, sorry.

Right - we know that this teacher has continued to touch the other Black students’ hair. Honestly, even if the other Black students don’t mind (and that’s a huge if), a teacher should keep her hands off her students. Even if she were touching all the students, not just the Black ones, someone upthread said she should know better than to invite suspicion of impropriety, and I agree. Like ... just don’t touch your students unless you’re administering first aid. We teach toddlers to keep their hands to themselves. 

Also, Beth and Randall are the kind of parents who listen to their kids and their kids are generally trustworthy. I don’t think it’s out of character for them to take Tess at her word, and by extension have the viewers take Tess at her word. And ... I mean, real talk: when a Black person tells another Black person “a white or non-Black person keeps touching my hair,” they all know what it means. It’s not a thing you generally have to explain because most of us have experienced it (see stories on this very thread). We know Randall experienced that kind of treatment in the predominantly white world he grew up in because the show has shown us that he has, including just this very episode. (I can’t remember if they showed stuff like that with Beth. I just remember that she was one of few Black students taking ballet, which is traditionally a pretty white world.)

The intent doesn’t have to be malicious for it to be a micro-aggression, or disrespectful - the teacher might be curious or admiring, but she should not feel entitled to touch. “I like your hair, Tess” would do just fine. It’s exactly the same as touching a pregnant woman’s belly without permission. You might just be excited about the miracle of life, but hands off. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Empress1

[deirdra]

I have Black cousins and nieces and know not to touch their hair unless they ask me to help style it, however, when I was in Africa, Black kids and some adults were touching my red hair and freckled white skin every day.  I don't like strangers touching me, but assumed it was curiosity, not them being micro-aggressive or disrespectful.  

Edited November 13, 2020 by deirdra

[madmax]

I think Tess was right, but the video was wrong.  Beth was right that what goes on the internet is there for a long, long time.  And I could see it being a bigger issue for Tess, as a POC, than her friend.  Yes, we saw her in the future as a professional, but was that the profession she actually wanted?  Did she get into the school she wanted?  Did that video negatively affect her career?

Or are the writers just trying to be so "woke" they are writing stuff and not considering what they've already told us?

I thought Kate and Toby's bickering showed them as they were and not some perfect couple to the adoptive mother.  I thought her look wasn't one of horror, but almost like a smile.  Of course, hard to tell with a mask.  I did wonder about what Toby was saying, tho, that she cherry picked stuff from their social media.  She didn't say she was a Stillers fan.  I think she'll flake, tho, and not give them the baby because this is the season of Randall.

 

[LexieLily]

Somehow I completely skipped out on it being Tuesday (the days have all run together since March, thanks COVID!) and missed the show so I just watched it tonight.

Noticed the semi-long shot on Randall's book of poems from William, that has William's name on it titled Poems For My Son, on the nightstand right next to Randall's homework journal for the therapist. The two notebooks are similar size and similar color. They made a point to have Randall notice the therapist's artwork on his back wall, and Randall seemed to be doing his therapy sessions from his bedroom. Who thinks that Randall will at one point pick up the wrong journal, Mr. Therapist will notice the name and/or title, and that will be meaningful for him somehow?

Edited November 13, 2020 by LexieLily

[Ohmo]

I've read the comments about Madison changing, and one thing that I didn't see mentioned was that she and Kate are friends.  She doesn't know Kevin as well, but he's Kate's brother, and Madison knows Kate and Kevin have always been close.  Over the years, I think Madison has allowed Kate to see more of the "real" her, and now we're seeing a bit of that with Kevin,  Maybe it's because children are involved, but I think Madison is beginning to trust Kevin.  Who knows if it will result in a love story, but I like Madison and I like Kevin whether they are romantic partners or not.

I don't necessarily think Madison will die in childbirth, but I can see her dying when the twins are young children.  The flash forwards haven't given me the vibe that Kevin is co-parenting with someone at that time.  When we've seen his kids, my impression has been that they're living with him full time.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Ohmo

[bybrandy]

12 hours ago, PRgal said:

There are some of us who don’t want honourifics dropped.  I hate it when parents introduce me to their kids as “Cynthia.”  As I’m an adult, I’m more comfortable with them calling me Ms. or Mrs.

But that is somebody you're meeting in person.  People who know you and know your gender.  Know your preferred title. I get that.  I don't personally ever need a title used for me personally but I get how you'd in a real life introduction keep that formality.  My was still in the addressing of things that aren't personal.  Do you need the Art Museum to assume your gender and marital status?

[PRgal]

6 hours ago, bybrandy said:

But that is somebody you're meeting in person.  People who know you and know your gender.  Know your preferred title. I get that.  I don't personally ever need a title used for me personally but I get how you'd in a real life introduction keep that formality.  My was still in the addressing of things that aren't personal.  Do you need the Art Museum to assume your gender and marital status?

So say you’re applying for a job. The hiring manager’s name is Alex Smith.  You don’t know Alex or the company’s culture. Do you still address the email to Alex?  A title like “Mx.” solves everything. 

[Boo Boo]

On the punishment/Randall's daughter:  I thought the biggest issue was their posting it on social media.  And that's a valid concern -- if this is what they posted with "screw you," what's next?  Social media posts can go viral and come back to haunt when you are trying to get  job.  My nephew's GF is an HR director and that's the first thing she does -- run the applicant's name on google and see what shows up (she'll also use the person's middle name b/c often the handle is First Name, Middle name).  

I also thought it was funny that two teenagers do a video about a teacher and "screw you" is the worst thing said.  It would've been more realistic if they had said "fuck you" and just bleeped that out.  

Edited November 13, 2020 by Boo Boo

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, Boo Boo said:

On the punishment/Randall's daughter:  I thought the biggest issue was their posting it on social media.  And that's a valid concern -- if this is what they posted with "screw you," what's next?  Social media posts can go viral and come back to haunt when you are trying to get  job.  My nephew's GF is an HR director and that's the first thing she does -- run the applicant's name on google and see what shows up (she'll also use the person's middle name b/c often the handle is First Name, Middle name).  

I think the harsh punishment was because it was on social media.  

As for teachers and social media, I remember a few years ago when this happened.

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Neurochick

[JudyObscure]

3 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

As for teachers and social media, I remember a few years ago when that happened.

 

I remember that!  Also, Imus, the radio personality who got fired for referring to a group of women basketball players by a racist hair insult. He so deserved that.

All this hair touching talk has triggered a lifetime of hair hassles for me.  Parents, teachers, and friends have always felt the need to question and judge my hair.  I've had many teachers take both hands and push my hair back into pony tail position, while informing me about barrettes and headbands. A college teacher pulled me into her office and  said one of the male teachers had asked her to talk to me about my "unkempt" hair. A group of girls in my college dorm busted into my room and asked if they could "do my hair," -- I was foolish enough to let them and I still remember them standing back after all their efforts and saying dejectedly, "It looks like it always does." One time  when I was 30 years old a man stopped me in the middle of the mall and told me my hair looked awful and asked me why I didn't brush it. (Why do people think that if you brush curly hair it will become silky straight?) My nicer friends just recommend conditioners all the time.

The last insult was about a year ago when a hairdresser sat me down and said, " I bet you hate your hair."  I said, "No, I don't hate my hair.  It's thick and healthy and looks very smooth and nice when the weather is right. The fact that it turns very frizzy whenever I get caught in misty rain has not made me hate it.  If you don't think you can deal with it I'll get someone else."

[AzraeltheCat]

On 11/12/2020 at 9:04 AM, sigmaforce86 said:

I think Randall and Beth did pretty well with Tess, I wish they had talked to her more, maybe given her books to read or people to research and talked to her about why it's different to "act" than to "react".  Her reacting and lashing out to the incidents at school was pretty age appropriate and she's not wrong but like anything at her age she needs guidance how to channel everything she's learning and experiencing into actions that can make a change.   Also teachers don't touch a kids hair; or any other part of them unless you're actively pulling them away from danger like stepping in front of a speeding car....seriously they may be kids but they're not your cute pets (and they're not stupid).

I liked the Madison and Kevin interactions and I'm OK with Madison changing - I think her normal bubbly over the top personality was a bit of a put on to cope with her problems and pregnancy hormones and her disorder rearing up have sort of overshadowed that and brought her a bit more down to earth. 

With Tess, I agree.  I think they should've discussed better way to react in the future.  But also, I agree with Tess and her friend on the frustrations both of them were experiencing...and teens don't always react in the most logical ways.  I also think the punishment was a bit excessive.  Someone also said it could mess up Tess's chances for college but she's got what, 3 years before applying? That video will be LONG forgotten and probably hard to find if someone googles her 3 years from now. Plus, it wasn't that bad, can't see a college rejecting her for that. 

Also I agree with this assessment of Madison's personality.  I think it was a cover because she didn't want to reveal her feelings of inadequacy etc. 

 

On 11/11/2020 at 5:18 PM, Ohiopirate02 said:

 I also loved the honesty of both of them opening up about their addictions.  It's a good start to something that could be meaningful.   It also plays against Kevin's expectations about finding love.  He always thought he would instantly know "the one" and have the same storybook love like his parents and Randall and Beth.  For it to happen slowly to Kevin would be so much sweeter in my eyes.  I would love to see Kevin realize he loves Madison during the most mundane of circumstances.   

This! So much of Kevin's previous lovelife has been about these crazy romantic notions and big gestures, not real life.  Someone also thought Kev would've known that Madison had an ED because Kate would've said where she met Mad, but my guess is that Kate didn't admit going to an ED group or at least maybe didn't discuss it in depth.  Also, maybe it's a bit like AA, where you don't going around spilling info on other members of the group. Also, I hated the Sophie relationship [I know some people love her, but I do  not] and just think it is time to close that book for good. 

And maybe it will change, but I find myself not caring anything about who the old man and his granddaughter are or whether or not Kate and Toby get to adopt that baby. 

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by AzraeltheCat

[Neurochick]

I really, really, really don't like the Kevin/Madison relationship.  I think it's a stupid destructive romantic fantasy:  Look, you can get pregnant by a hot actor you barely know and BOOM, he'll magically fall in love with you while the two of you live together because of a global pandemic.

Probably not going to happen in real life, maybe 1% but that's it.

However Kevin.  I think Kevin has a romantic fantasy of his own, to meet "the one" and to have a relationship like Jack and Rebecca or Randall and Beth.  Maybe the relationship with Madison is teaching Kevin that it romance doesn't have to happen a "certain way."  Maybe he and Madison will realize they really don't know each other, but at least Kevin is open to the possibility that love can happen in all kinds of ways.

[AzraeltheCat]

When I was about ten or so, my family was invited to a reception for a home town sports hero [he played in NFL for winning Superbowl team] that my dad was friends with. Most of the folks there were black.  I am white and at the time, had really long, straight blonde hair.  While we were waiting in the receiving line to congratulate the hero, I thought I felt something touch my hair. Ignored it a first and then felt it again.  I turned my head around and the little girl behind me, probably only 7, had jerked her hand back and looked guilty.  I just smiled and told her it was okay.  I figured she was just curious as to what it felt like.  The other times in my life that some one touched my hair without asking have been similar;  I was older, but it was still usually children - that I guess had not seen hair like mine and were just curious [and some times the kids have asked and I’ve said yes].  It’s a little weird but never bothered me because they are kids. But for any adult to do it - whether to a child or another adult, and esp  after the person has asked them to stop - is weird and disrespectful and so many other things. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by AzraeltheCat

[Captain Asshat]

On 11/11/2020 at 7:36 PM, marceline said:

Madison's discussion of what it was like to be pregnant with an eating disorder FLOORED me. I'd completely forgotten about her bulimia and I'm glad the show brought it up again. It was a good reminder that so many of us have hidden struggles. She's not just pregnant, she's pregnant with twins. That said, I agree with whoever above said that Madison feels like a completely different character now.

Here are my thoughts on this point: I think everyone has previously seen her only in her "public" persona. We all have that to some extent. We are different out in the world than we are at home. For Madison, she is always outwardly friendly and upbeat and chatty. In private, though, she has all the issues that come with her eating disorder that she doesn't show to everyone. Kevin is the same way, but we've known that since S1, because the show showed that to us. Now that Madison and Kevin are living together, he (and by extension, all of us) is seeing her true self that she tends to hide from others. I don't think it's that she's a different character. I think it's that we're seeing all of her.

[Good Queen Jane]

18 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Also, it will be interesting if Mr. Match.com turns out to be somehow related to the Pearsons -- or the Damons for that matter.  Kevin Pearson, where were you and what were you doing on the night of ... ?!  We know Randall is faithful to Beth, so for all the Randall bashing, there is that.  Jack's dead.  Nicky is MIA again.  The Vietnamese grandfather?  Certainly not!

My thought is that Mr. Match.com is Marc, Kate's long ago abusive boyfriend.

[Norma Desmond]

This storyline with Randall's bio mom makes no sense at all. So are we to believe that William never went back to the apartment he shared with her? He never bothered to check if she was really dead? He never initiated whatever proceedings are necessary to bury a loved one? What did he do with the apartment and her things? It is obvious this storyline was never part of the big plan, was added like, yesterday - "hey guys, hear me out: what if Randall's bio mom is actually alive"? And someone thought this was a good idea?

This is so stupid, it makes me angry.

So now they'll have to retcon things to acommodate this BS . Either William is a crazy person who never bothered to even bury his dead girlfirend/mother of his child, or he lied to Randall abut her.

 

Either way, it sucks.

I still hate Miss Nepotism and her relationship with Kevin.

 

auuugh.

 

On a lighter note, Jack's scenes didn't bother/bore me this week. That's the way to incorporate Jack into the current storylines: something we haven't seen before, not rehashing the day the twins were born for the 10000th time.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Norma Desmond

[Blakeston]

If Ellie did, in fact, do her research on Kate and Toby, then she must know that Kate is Kevin's twin, right? Maybe she's just a Kevin Pearson fan who's going to huge lengths to meet him.

One of the only ways that I could buy her wanting Kate and Toby to be the parents - and sticking around after watching the argument - is if she's aware of the Kevin connection.

[Ohiopirate02]

51 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I really, really, really don't like the Kevin/Madison relationship.  I think it's a stupid destructive romantic fantasy:  Look, you can get pregnant by a hot actor you barely know and BOOM, he'll magically fall in love with you while the two of you live together because of a global pandemic.

Probably not going to happen in real life, maybe 1% but that's it.

However Kevin.  I think Kevin has a romantic fantasy of his own, to meet "the one" and to have a relationship like Jack and Rebecca or Randall and Beth.  Maybe the relationship with Madison is teaching Kevin that it romance doesn't have to happen a "certain way."  Maybe he and Madison will realize they really don't know each other, but at least Kevin is open to the possibility that love can happen in all kinds of ways.

I love Kevin and Madison and definitely see potential in that ship, but I will admit it is straight out of a romance novel.  

I do not want Kevin and Sophie 3.0 or 4.0 or whatever.  I hate the whole story of that emerald ring and the concept that Kevin has to earn it.  There is an imbalance baked into that scenario that I really dislike.  Kevin earning the ring and Sophie requires Kevin to do the heavy-lifting and change for Sophie.  There is no mention of Sophie having to compromise for Kevin.  And if we do get Kevin working on finally being worthy of the ring it will also be because of the presence of Madison.  I hate the idea of Madison being a vehicle to facilitate a happy ending for Kevin and another woman.  

[CrystalBlue]

7 hours ago, PRgal said:

So say you’re applying for a job. The hiring manager’s name is Alex Smith.  You don’t know Alex or the company’s culture. Do you still address the email to Alex?  A title like “Mx.” solves everything. 

Dear Sir or Madam.  Dear Mr./Ms. Smith.  No need to invent new honorific titles.  Mx sounds like trying to please the non-gender non-binary crowd.

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, Norma Desmond said:

This storyline with Randall's bio mom makes no sense at all. So are we to believe that William never went back to the apartment he shared with her? He never bothered to check if she was really dead? He never initiated whatever proceedings are necessary to bury a loved one? What did he do with the apartment and her things? It is obvious this storyline was never part of the big plan, was added like, yesterday - "hey guys, hear me out: what if Randall's bio mom is actually alive"? And someone thought this was a good idea?

This is so stupid, it makes me angry.

So now they'll have to retcon things to acommodate this BS . Either William is a crazy person who never bothered to even bury his dead girlfirend/mother of his child, or he lied to Randall abut her.

 

Either way, it sucks.

I still hate Miss Nepotism and her relationship with Kevin.

 

auuugh.

 

On a lighter note, Jack's scenes didn't bother/bore me this week. That's the way to incorporate Jack into the current storylines: something we haven't seen before, not rehashing the day the twins were born for the 10000 time.

I agree with everything you said except for Miss Nepotism -- and shouldn't that be Mrs. Nepotism? 😀  As long as she's a good actress, I don't care.  But I know how you feel because there was a show I used to watch and I hated that they used the wife of a showrunner as a romantic-interest character to one of the mains and she wasn't a very good actress and I used to make fun of her for that.  😄

[CrystalBlue]

1 hour ago, Blakeston said:

If Ellie did, in fact, do her research on Kate and Toby, then she must know that Kate is Kevin's twin, right? Maybe she's just a Kevin Pearson fan who's going to huge lengths to meet him.

One of the only ways that I could buy her wanting Kate and Toby to be the parents - and sticking around after watching the argument - is if she's aware of the Kevin connection.

Maybe she already met Kevin.  Maybe he's Mr. Match.com as I suggested earlier!  😀  Kevin had a momentary lapse of judgment when he bedded Madison and we know his cad-like history.

[Marley]

I thought this episode sucked. This show may be losing me. The flashbacks aren’t catching my interest either at this point.  Also this is rude but I’ve never like Tween Kate she’s a bad actor IMO and I don’t really care about some dumb crush she has. FF material.

The Asian guy and the little kid was annoying because I didn’t know who the fuck they were. I knew it tied into the show somehow but it wasn’t interesting and the little cliffhanger ending is getting old.

I don’t mind Kevin and Madison but I started laughing when Kevin started his big speech in the garage. Like way to make it all about you guy lol.

I don’t think Tess should even be punished for that video. It’s weird that a teacher would touch kids hair and call them the wrong thing. There’s no way a teacher wouldn’t know that’s wrong. All she did too was say screw you in the video. Am I missing something is that some super offensive phrase now. Randall and Beth overreacted. Weird.

Toby Kate and their adoption SL zzzzz. Who cares. The writers couldn’t think of something better.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Marley

[AzraeltheCat]

1 hour ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I love Kevin and Madison and definitely see potential in that ship, but I will admit it is straight out of a romance novel.  

It does seem unlikely but weird things happen in real life.  Way back in the day, a gal I knew right out of high school broke up with her BF, had a one night fling, and got pregnant. While he wasn't a movie star, it was still someone she had only known superficially, not been dating.  They've now been happily married for over 20 years [and had another child].  Danny Bonuduce [from Patridge Family] married his wife on their first date-- a blind date at that!-- and they were married for 16 years.  These are the exceptions rather than the norm, but I'm okay with this for Kevin.  Honestly, his romance with Sophie seemed like more of one out of a romance novel...meet as children, have first kiss, first love, etc., like they have to be some kind of soulmates for life instead of just first loves.  Plus, hated that  whole spiel from Sophie's mom about "earning the emerald ring."  Blech.  Like Sophie said in one ep ""We tried to squeeze a puzzle piece in because it fit once when were kids....Just leave me with the past. Let me remember you at 10 or 17 or 20. Just let me remember you when it was good." 

Edited November 13, 2020 by AzraeltheCat

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, AzraeltheCat said:

It does seem unlikely but weird things happen in real life.  Way back in the day, a gal I knew right out of high school broke up with her BF, had a one night fling, and got pregnant. While he wasn't a movie star, it was still someone she had only known superficially, not been dating.  They've now been happily married for over 20 years [and had another child].  Danny Bonuduce [from Patridge Family] married his wife on their first date-- a blind date at that!-- and they were married for 16 years.  These are the exceptions rather than the norm, but I'm okay with this for Kevin.  Honestly, his romance with Sophie seemed like more of one out of a romance novel...meet as children, have first kiss, first love, etc.,  and the whole spiel from Sophie's mom about "earning the emerald ring."  Blech.  Like Sophie said in one ep ""We tried to squeeze a puzzle piece in because it fit once when were kids....Just leave me with the past. Let me remember you at 10 or 17 or 20. Just let me remember you when it was good." 

To me the Kevin-Sophie saga reads like a man trying to write a romance novel based on a quick Google search of the genre.  Second chance romance is a well-established trope, having the hero royally fuck up and need to grovel is also a common plot point found in romance, even having a symbol like that emerald ring happens in many a romance, but the show hit all of the beats wrong.  They went with the second chance romance back in season two and Sophie broke up with Kevin.  I cannot for the life of me think of a successful romance where it's Third Times the Charm.  Once a couple breaks up for the second time, I just cannot see a way to write a happy ending without making it explicit that one of them is settling.  

[PRgal]

49 minutes ago, CrystalBlue said:

Dear Sir or Madam.  Dear Mr./Ms. Smith.  No need to invent new honorific titles.  Mx sounds like trying to please the non-gender non-binary crowd.

If you're non-binary, you're neither a sir nor a madam (or Mr./Ms.).  And yes, I agree with that ng/nb/woke thing (though "woke" people don't seem to like formality).

To get back on topic:  Now that Kevin has had that chat with Madison regarding HIS body image issues, I wonder if they're going to address male eating disorders/male body image.  And yeah, I agree, why DOES a lawyer need to look ripped (other than to please audiences)?  I don't think he should have a dad bod, necessarily, but hey, more "normal" sizing would be appropriate.   

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Dear Sir or Madam.  Dear Mr./Ms. Smith.  No need to invent new honorific titles.  Mx sounds like trying to please the non-gender non-binary crowd.

There was a time people weren't too happy about "Ms."

2 hours ago, AzraeltheCat said:

It does seem unlikely but weird things happen in real life.

True, but it's a unicorn.  

The problem is many young women look at stuff like that and think it's possible, when it's only possible about .5% of the time.

Kind of like the movie "Pretty Woman."

[cameron]

On 11/11/2020 at 8:33 AM, Quof said:

Me too.  Are we sure it wasn't?

I think she has lost a lot of weight.  On the other hand, fully grown Kate has sure gotten bigger.

[JudyObscure]

My parent's generation, pre-1960's sexual revolution, tended to get married very young and I've read that a huge proportion of the brides were a few months pregnant at the altar.  Most of their marriages lasted until death.  Kevin and Madison may not have known each other well or had much in common a few months ago, but they're now sharing what most people consider the most important part of their lives.  They will have their child in common and that means a lot more than all the movies and pizza that is really about all lots of long dating couples have shared.  Plus, Kevin is finally feeling safe enough with someone to talk about his insecurities and Madison is getting the reassurance about her body issues that  she needs.  I love this couple.

[Neurochick]

24 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

My parent's generation, pre-1960's sexual revolution, tended to get married very young and I've read that a huge proportion of the brides were a few months pregnant at the altar.  Most of their marriages lasted until death.  Kevin and Madison may not have known each other well or had much in common a few months ago, but they're now sharing what most people consider the most important part of their lives.  They will have their child in common and that means a lot more than all the movies and pizza that is really about all lots of long dating couples have shared.  Plus, Kevin is finally feeling safe enough with someone to talk about his insecurities and Madison is getting the reassurance about her body issues that  she needs.  I love this couple.

So I guess, if a young woman wants to get married, why bother dating?  Just get pregnant and the guy will want to move in with you (if there's a pandemic) and ask to marry you...in less than six months.