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S04.E01: Gold Stick

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13 minutes ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Christ on a crutch, Phillip. Did it ever occur to you that the reason your uncle started watching out for Charles more than you was because your son needed the help and you didn't??? What an insecure 58-year-old child you are.

Yep.  But Phillip wasn’t loved by his parents growing up.  It’s hereditary and probably why he did it with Charles.  That, along with social expectations of the time.  
 

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3 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Pet peeve, but why does the actor playing Charles always slump? I don't think he slumps in real life.

Josh O'Connor is walking that way because Charles did.  

I just finished this episode and, man, did the writers mess up season 3.  Anne's marriage should have been a plot point last season. Instead we get a random actor popping up playing her husband.   And the way the show sidesteps The Troubles is disappointing.   The writers knew Uncle Dickie was going out on a bang and the IRA was responsible,  but they really downplayed the decade proceeding the bombing.   I know about it and what the footage interspersed meant, but the average viewer wouldn't.   But, the show did nail Margaret Thatcher's whole ethos about The Troubles and how she viewed any Irish Nationalist. 

I know the Irish voice over is supposed to be Gerry Adams, and I wonder if it is an actor or actually his voice.  The voice that Margaret Thatcher later had banned from being broadcast.  

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Well they certainly didn't waste any time. Diana was introduced before the credits rolled. I do think they did an excellent job at casting someone who did look like a shy teenager. I don't buy the actor playing Charles as a 30 year old though. He barely looks out of his teen years himself. This is kind of undercutting the dramatic age gap between the two.

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I am mostly wondering how the show gets the idea that she is constantly in the way of other people's love when she herself very much picked Phillip despite him being an unpopular and problematic choice.

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I waited all Sunday Australian time for this season to drop. Had to wait until about 830pm for it to appear making me wish Netflix AUS just advertised it as dropping Monday.

Anyways, what a great first episode. I found Season 3 very uneven and borderline boring at times but I feel they are back. Maybe the previous season just covered the boring forgettable parts of Elizabeth's reign?? But why they skipped Anne's attempted kidnapping I will never know.

I am looking forward to the interactions between Thatcher and Elizabeth, I can already see they are not going to mesh very well. I do hope that they return to focusing on how events affect Elizabeth and how she responds. I felt that was missing in Season 3, too much focus on the supporting cast and not enough on the monarch. Although I feel this season will become the Charles & Diana show. Which I will find interesting as the show is finally hitting the period where I was alive and started to understand the news, so technically I am familiar with this part of Elizabeth's reign.

I am so, so happy to see Phillip is still going to mope around and wonder why no one gives him the credit he thinks he deserves. I so love it when this show tries to make me care about hard done by Phillip. Please may his whinge to Charles be the last time the show has Phillip complaining about his lot in life.

One thing I wish the show would do is have some kind of time stamp just so I know how long has passed. Especially at the start of the episode, just pop up at year. Yes I know technically, I should be able to work things out based upon conversations. But honestly this episode felt like maybe it covered a couple of months (even though it has to have been at least a year). One minute Charles is dating Sarah Spencer, the next minute he is letting Sarah know he can't make it to her wedding. I don't need actual date, I'd be happy with even a 2 months later. And last season, I think one minute Anne was single and the next they mentioned a husband.

I hope the show remembers that Elizabeth has 4 children this season. I remember getting excited in the final episode of Season 3 to see that they had remembered The Other Two as Elizabeth walked out to her  Jubilee. I know the children don't hang out with the parents much, but even in Season One we saw young Charles and Anne in the background of stuff. If I didn't know better I would have assumed Andrew and Edward died between Season 2 and 3.

Speaking of dying, what a great piece of editing the sequence leading up to Mountbatten's death. I knew he died from an assassination but I honestly thought it was a plane. I had to pause my watch of the episode and check Wikipedia. Which to be honest, after learning it was a boat explosion just made the scene even more tense.

I know it's only the first episode, but I think this series is back on form after the Season 3 slump.

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Mmm...I noticed that too, they went from having years mentioned to vague "four month earlier/later" and similar. Not sure what the point is, especially since we are now getting in territory a lot of viewers might still remember.

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9 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

You have a point because I found it downright jarring that they chose to depict her ironing a shirt.  That seemed entirely out-of-character given her personalty and, quite frankly, her social status.  (Surely she had hired help that took care of her domestic chores.)

I saw that as the show having a bit of fun at the "Iron Lady's" expense. Here she's the Iron(ing) Lady.  Great pun. At least I got a chuckle out of it.

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I took that to mean that the marriage was on rocky ground, and maybe Mark was cheating on her. 

I know very little about Anne's personal life and probably because of that I took it to mean the same thing you did.  That's what I got from how the show presented it and if that's not what they meant to imply then it was a bad piece of writing. Seems to me the overall point of the scene was to play up the closeness of Anne and Phillip so as to juxtapose it with his relationship with Charles later on. 

4 hours ago, ProudMary said:

The scene with Philip and Charles following Mountbatten's death, was just awful, starting with "Oh, it's you." What an unimaginable amount of jealousy on Philip's part. Would not the instinct have been to pur an arm around your son as you mourn a man you both cared about so deeply? I wasn't expecting any  tears but what about some basic human empathy? He was written as something of a psychopath for this scene. A bit too over the top, IMO.

Theme of this scene is "It's complicated".  

It was time, however, for this actor to portray the snivelling whiner that Matt Smith had to portray in seasons one and two.  I was worried the show had forgotten that (/sarcasm).  I'm not even going to try to analyze that relationship. Getting a grip on my own family dynamics is difficult enough for me - and I think of my family as a happy one!

12 hours ago, MadyGirl1987 said:

I thought Diana’s portrayal was spot in, even if the first meeting had vibes of manic pixie dream girl. You can definitely see what attracted Charles to her, even if they were wrong for each other.

I think they laid out quite a "story" for us regarding Charles and Diana getting together. Again, I'm sure there is more than we'll ever know but the Show bundled Charle's feelings toward Uncle Dickie (and his last words to him being spoken in anger and resentment) with the letter Uncle Dickie wrote him right after  that. Charles was shown receiving that letter soon after he was told of the death. In the letter Dickie exhorted him to work harder to become that man he will have to be and to find a sweet, young, innocent girl to marry and become his queen - one who knows the rules and follows them and does what is expected of her. The sweet, caring, thoughtful, innocent who conveyed her condolences after Dickie's death was set up to suggest Charles was going after Diana to atone for those last harsh words to the only father figure  he had in his life and to try to live up to the expectations Dickie laid out to him.  It's a lovely and safe story. Not the "forcing Charles to marry" tale nor the enchanted with a "manic pixie dream girl" one.  But they also underlaid a "manipulative" subplot (for future episodes IMHO) via the phone call to the older sister who told Charles point blank that Diana planned the "chance" meeting he was enchanted with. 

Given the tight rope you have to walk when writing the history of living people I'm happy enough with that "story" and with the show so far. I don't expect to be told the truth. I'm happy with a plausible - if fictional - explanation. This is TV after all. 

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8 hours ago, Skylark said:

I knew Mountbatten’s death was coming, but watching Charles Dance again makes me sad that they didn’t wait to use him and cast him as Philip in Season 5. Such a lost opportunity

I love Charles Dance, but I agree he would have made a much better older Phillip. I was disappointed they didn't bring Greg Wise back as Mountbatten, (they could have easily aged him up a bit) because he was an absolute dead ringer for him. Charles Dance certainly had the right bearing for the role, but doesn't resemble Mountbatten physically at all.

I really enjoyed this episode - loved the wild Scottish scenery. Boy, Peter Morgan sure does like trotting out the deer/stag sighting trope when writing about her majesty.

The into of Diana has been really good so far. The actress portraying her doesn't resemble her as much when viewed head on, as her face is a bit too round. But from certain profile angles the resemblance is uncanny - she has exactly the right blue eyes. She is doing the coy shy thing very well. When you read about their courtship, it's shocking how little they knew one another. I think they only met about 5 or 6 times before their engagement was announced. So  much unhappiness because of archaic rules.

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13 minutes ago, Bill1978 said:

I am so, so happy to see Phillip is still going to mope around and wonder why no one gives him the credit he thinks he deserves. I so love it when this show tries to make me care about hard done by Phillip. Please may his whinge to Charles be the last time the show has Phillip complaining about his lot in life.

Ha Ha. Seems that great minds think alike. Glad you caught that too. 

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5 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And the way the show sidesteps The Troubles is disappointing.   The writers knew Uncle Dickie was going out on a bang and the IRA was responsible,  but they really downplayed the decade proceeding the bombing.   I know about it and what the footage interspersed meant, but the average viewer wouldn't.   But, the show did nail Margaret Thatcher's whole ethos about The Troubles and how she viewed any Irish Nationalist. 

The passages worked with me as I know something about the Troubles and the Irish history generally. Therefore, I wasn't much sorry for Mountbatten's death, he was a solder after all and therefore a target. The same doesn't apply to his grandson and that other boy.

Thatcher's reaction was very emotional - not because she was a woman, but because people who despise emotions, doesn't even notice how emotions influence on their decisions. She reacted instantly without waiting until she was calm enough to ponder the wisest course - after all, if the Brits hadn't succeed until know, why would they ever succeed with the same methods?    

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Well, as someone who has only a passing knowledge about it, why did the situation escalate around that time? Also, weren't there more attacks following this one on British soil? I desperately tried to piece together what I know about it, and I fell short. I think I would have rather a discussion about politics than one about about Phillip's weird hang-up. Honestly, I enjoyed the character way more back when he made snarky remarks about political events.

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3 hours ago, Anothermi said:

 But they also underlaid a "manipulative" subplot (for future episodes IMHO) via the phone call to the older sister who told Charles point blank that Diana planned the "chance" meeting he was enchanted with. 

I caught that too, as well as  Sarah Spencer telling him, after Diana had been "caught" in her leggy sprite costume that Diana had known he was coming, had been forbidden to meet him, and could have just as easily gone around the Hall instead of through it.  I read in one of the biographies about the royals that one of Diana's teachers had sent her home with a note saying Diana was the most manipulative little girl she had ever met.  

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There are a few more details which point to her being manipulative through the season like

Spoiler

her claiming to be more someone who likes being in nature and later on preferring to stay in London after all.

But I guess they want to leave it to the audience to make a judgement about Diana. Not that I think that the show will change anyone's mind about her.

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8 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Phillip strikes me as a horrible person. He married Elizabeth thinking that he could be the power behind the throne, and when that didn't happen he was jealous that his son would be King some day (never mind that he is still waiting).  There's a strong "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia" vibe when it comes to his relationship with Charles.  Not to mention all of the other nasty things he has said and done over the years  I do wonder why she is so devoted to him.

 

8 hours ago, swanpride said:

I am mostly wondering how the show gets the idea that she is constantly in the way of other people's love when she herself very much picked Phillip despite him being an unpopular and problematic choice.

My husband is both a British and American citizen. After we had watched this fantastic episode, I asked him if  he thought Phillip would have every married Elizabeth if it did not give him a giant come up in life and he said point blank, "No way in Hell".

Sometimes when I see a beautiful woman with a not very good looking man I have to ask myself, "Would he of married her if she was not such a hottie?" and "Would she have married him if he did not have money?". I do the same for Phillip and Elizabeth.

I think Elizabeth loved her father dearly, but she did not want be stuck with a nebbish sensitive man (like Charles). Instead she was attracted to someone who exudes "big dick energy" or some more cynical might say today "toxic masculinity".

He was incredibly handsome and dashing in his youth and she fell hard and never came back up. In the first season, when he was a bit of a nightmare, she always defended his strong opinions and harsh attitude...as the thing she loved about him.

They had their problems but I do think they grew to eventually love and respect each other very much. Phillip is still and probably will always be a bit of a dick.

It does make her attitudes seem hypocritical.

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I caught that too, as well as  Sarah Spencer telling him, after Diana had been "caught" in her leggy sprite costume that Diana had known he was coming, had been forbidden to meet him, and could have just as easily gone around the Hall instead of through it.  I read in one of the biographies about the royals that one of Diana's teachers had sent her home with a note saying Diana was the most manipulative little girl she had ever met.  

I imagine her angelic face and beautiful eyes let her get away with much and even Charles could see that this young girl was bullshitting him. He seemed to be somewhat flattered and amused. Of course, women were hitting on him all the time during this period (from what I have read and heard) since he was the world's most eligible bachelor at that time. I think many school girls had his poster on their wall, even though he was much older than them.

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On 11/15/2020 at 4:04 AM, Daisy said:

Philip being jealous of Charles... just.. i don't know. be a better father, and maybe Charles wouldn't have felt the need to transfer emotions.

My sense from the scene was that he was less upset by Mountbatten taking his place as father to Charles, but that Charles took over his place as surrogate son to Mountbatten (though both were an issue).
 

17 hours ago, Aliferously said:

As soon as Lord Mountbatten mentioned the lobster, I remembered what would happen. I liked that the funeral scene was overlapped with the IRA claiming responsibility and drowned out Charles's speech.  That was some explosion though.

Poor Anne, I would have also liked to see her wedding. It felt sort of shoved in there without purpose.

I was aghast that Philip, was jealous of his own son. Just what the hell? You're in your 60's, how is this even reasonable?

 

I knew what would happen (though somehow I did not know that Mountbatten's daughter and grandson(s?) were on the boat with him, and that his grandson was a casualty.

Jealousy isn't bound by reason much of the time.

I'm fairly neutral when it comes to Diana - but I do believe she embraced a fairy tale that led her to an unhappy life and tragedy. My take on Sarah Spenser on the telephone was that Sarah was jealous - and spiteful. Whether or not Diana was as manipulative as some say.

 

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2 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

My sense from the scene was that he was less upset by Mountbatten taking his place as father to Charles, but that Charles took over his place as surrogate son to Mountbatten (though both were an issue).
 

I knew what would happen (though somehow I did not know that Mountbatten's daughter and grandson(s?) were on the boat with him, and that his grandson was a casualty.

Jealousy isn't bound by reason much of the time.

I'm fairly neutral when it comes to Diana - but I do believe she embraced a fairy tale that led her to an unhappy life and tragedy. My take on Sarah Spenser on the telephone was that Sarah was jealous - and spiteful. Whether or not Diana was as manipulative as some say.

 

Jealous and Spiteful can be used to describe many a Spencer during this time period.  I have only seen this episode, but I wonder if the show will fill in the blanks about the family.  The Spencer family is just as messed up as the Windsor-Mountbattens if not worse.  

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2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I caught that too, as well as  Sarah Spencer telling him, after Diana had been "caught" in her leggy sprite costume that Diana had known he was coming, had been forbidden to meet him, and could have just as easily gone around the Hall instead of through it.  I read in one of the biographies about the royals that one of Diana's teachers had sent her home with a note saying Diana was the most manipulative little girl she had ever met.  

Charles promised Diana that he wouldn't tell her sister that he had met her, and then immediately did just that. Not very princely.

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25 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

A great book on the subject is Patrick Radden Keefe's Say Nothing.  It gives an overview of the situation and ties it into the murder of a single mother and what that murder did to her children.  Keefe goes after both sides and you will come out of it hating Margaret Thatcher and Gerry Adams like one should.  Really, just fuck both of them.  I do believe that Maggie is keeping Gerry's seat in hell warm for him. 

Totally agree about the book, it's so good.  And totally agree about Thatcher and her current location.

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21 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

You have a point because I found it downright jarring that they chose to depict her ironing a shirt.  That seemed entirely out-of-character given her personalty and, quite frankly, her social status.  (Surely she had hired help that took care of her domestic chores.)

Back then?  Women were expected to "do it all."  The "have it all" was always a myth, because it was just about impossible to have a successful high powered career, while birthing and raising wonderful children, maintaining a spotless house, AND cooking each meal.  Still, that was the "ideal" back in the eighties.

18 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I took that to mean that the marriage was on rocky ground, and maybe Mark was cheating on her. 

Yes, we skipped over the wedding, marriage, and went straight to "nearly divorced" but somehow I didn't mind much.  I would adore having more
Anne , but all in all?  I was absolutely thrilled with this opening episode anyway.  They have finally let Colman loose to actually act, and even smile, or show emotion, and damn, it was good.

15 hours ago, Sir RaiderDuck OMS said:

Christ on a crutch, Phillip. Did it ever occur to you that the reason your uncle started watching out for Charles more than you was because your son needed the help and you didn't??? What an insecure 58-year-old child you are.

The never ending "mommy and daddy" problems of this entire family, it's been a focus of these writers/directors from the start.  In this episode though, it worked for me as well, because I believed it.

What a bunch of screwed up people, but I believe they are, perhaps more than most, and it does impact action so I was OK with it.  Though in real life, I get pretty annoyed/bored with blaming adult problems on parents, it's obviously a reality, perhaps especially for such privileged and out of touch people.  What else do they have to worry about?  Endless navel gazing seems realistic to me, for people who never have to worry about rent, buying or affording food, let alone cooking and cleaning up.  So they fret about how hard they've had it in other ways. 

14 hours ago, 3 is enough said:

Phillip strikes me as a horrible person. He married Elizabeth thinking that he could be the power behind the throne, and when that didn't happen he was jealous that his son would be King some day (never mind that he is still waiting).  There's a strong "Marcia, Marcia, Marcia" vibe when it comes to his relationship with Charles.  Not to mention all of the other nasty things he has said and done over the years  I do wonder why she is so devoted to him.

I agree, but not just from Philip.  I kind of covered it above though.  

13 hours ago, swanpride said:

I am mostly wondering how the show gets the idea that she is constantly in the way of other people's love when she herself very much picked Phillip despite him being an unpopular and problematic choice.

Possibly because "The Crown" was in the way of love, if not the person Elizabeth, who honestly isn't quite allowed to do what she wants.  Still, so far, it's mostly Margaret and Philip, no mention of her interfering in other family member choices.  It's possible I missed some though.  

-----

Overall, I thought it was an AMAZING first episode.  I have no quibbles at all.  Yes, they are fast forwarding through some historical events, but to me, it's expected.  Yes, it's a pity we didn't get more Anne, but really, I'm glad for what we are getting, and she is a minor player in The Crown (monarchy itself.)  

I adored the editing and filming of the boat blowing up, interspersed with shooting, fishing, all of it.  It was extremely powerful, probably especially because I knew it was happening as soon as I saw Mountbatten in that fishing shirt.  I honestly can't imagine it all being done much better.

Well done show.

Edited by Umbelina · Reason: fixed name
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Charles and Diana are like one of those Manic Pixie Dream Girl rom coms come to life, with the shy awkward guy and the wacky free spirited girl, but, as you might imagine, in real life that kind of pairing would be difficult to work in a real relationship long term, with those clashing personalities. Adding in all the pressure of being royalty, no wonder it all seemed like such a good idea at first and then it went sour. 

I also totally don't think that Diana just "accidently" met Charles in her cute fairy costume, she was totally looking to meet him and get her charming on. 

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I wondered about the title of this episode.  Checked Wikipedia and found that "Gold Stick" is a ceremonial office held by someone close to the sovereign - in this case, by Louis Mountbatten.

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10 hours ago, Roseanna said:

The passages worked with me as I know something about the Troubles and the Irish history generally. Therefore, I wasn't much sorry for Mountbatten's death, he was a solder after all and therefore a target. The same doesn't apply to his grandson and that other boy.

Lord Mountbatten had been retired for over a decade by the time he was assassinated.  He was not a lawful target under any recognized law of war.

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5 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Lord Mountbatten had been retired for over a decade by the time he was assassinated.  He was not a lawful target under any recognized law of war.

Yet I believe that he would have no objection to die "a soldier's death" and be held as a martyr.

Even though one doesn't accept IRA's reasoning, one can understand it: if one acts like English had done against the Irish for centuries, and lately during the Troubles, one can't wonder if there will be a revenge.  

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31 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Yet I believe that he would have no objection to die "a soldier's death" and be held as a martyr.

Even though one doesn't accept IRA's reasoning, one can understand it: if one acts like English had done against the Irish for centuries, and lately during the Troubles, one can't wonder if there will be a revenge.  

Uncle Dickie using that castle as his summer home in the Republic was a flex and did make him a target for the IRA.  He was aware of the history of the home, what that meant to the Irish and still chose to make it his summer home.  A close member of the royal family choosing to summer in such an exposed area was a huge security risk, and the IRA exploited it.  

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7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Charles promised Diana that he wouldn't tell her sister that he had met her, and then immediately did just that. Not very princely.

As we said in our house, it showed us what his word was worth. Nothing.

5 hours ago, MaggieG said:

I like the little touch of Margaret Thatcher removing her clip on earing before answering the phone. 

As a child I never could understand wanting to wear those horrible clip-ons when you had to do things like take them off. Fortunately, by the time I was an adult, pierced were more the rage, and the ones I wore were no problem with a phone. Plus clips pinched like crazy - at least the ones I tried did.

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1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

As a child I never could understand wanting to wear those horrible clip-ons when you had to do things like take them off. Fortunately, by the time I was an adult, pierced were more the rage, and the ones I wore were no problem with a phone. Plus clips pinched like crazy - at least the ones I tried did.

I was thinking the same thing. The clip-ons were torture...at least for me when I was young and before I got my ears pierced.

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3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I also totally don't think that Diana just "accidently" met Charles in her cute fairy costume, she was totally looking to meet him and get her charming on. 

Yes, her sister confirmed that when she spoke to Charles.  She had a major crush as a "barely teen."

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Good Lord, these people!  If even half of the way the royal family is being portrayed is realistic (and I tend to believe it is), they are repulsive. What a bunch of self-entitled snobs and clueless jackasses.  And Margaret Thatcher - It's just 24-7 work work work with her.  No wonder her husband was always portrayed as a jerk.  What did he even see in her?  She's seems completely unable to relax and enjoy herself ever.  It's truly sad.  I found myself yelling at the TV screen, "Get out, Diana, before it's too late!"  No amount of money, jewels, clothes, etc. could ever induce me to put up with all the crap she had to put up with and deal with these horrible people on a daily basis.  Screw em!  I will say the actress portraying Diana is doing a marvelous job.  She really captures her well and the re-creation of the clothes are fun to watch.

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On 11/15/2020 at 6:13 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

I think Zara was born c.1977, so she was even a mother.

Zara was born in 1981. Her older brother Peter was born in 77.

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The pain of the clip-on earrings! My ears hurt just remembering them.  MT is much more organized- I had to resort to buying two pair at a time- taking one off for the telephone is similar to laundry and the missing sock.

This episode encapsulates a puzzling time period for some young women. In my group, in our naive youth, we admired MT, determined to be steely and rise in the work force; while at night, we looked Diana’s possible engagement and dreamed of a prince would would sweep us away. 

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8 minutes ago, DarkHorse said:

One of the flaws of this show is they tend to either gloss over events or miss them completely. They mention the IRA and Mountbatten but then it just ends. I would have been more interested in seeing the Royals deal with it and their attitudes to it than the little we did see. Maybe the topic is too contentious. 

As others have mentioned Philip being upset that Mountbatten switched his focus to Charles was just really sad. If the Royals weren't Royal, the Liz and Phil could be perfectly cast as Al and Peggy Bundy type parents in a trailer trash type show!

Even Anne's equestrian is glossed over to some degree given she competed at the Olympics. 

Admittedly I didn't keep up with the gossip and still though Kristen Stewart was going to play Diana! So happy they went with someone else. 

 

 

 

Kristen Stewart is going to play Diana in an upcoming movie not this show.

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Thank you to the folks on this thread for clearing up the confusion of Phillip's conversation with Anne. I knew that at the time the conversation took place Anne was already married and a mother, but the "just about" comment threw me off.

I keep getting squicked out by the quasi-incestuous relationships these royals had - Anne with Andrew Parker-Bowles and Charles with Diana's sister.

I had forgotten the details of Mountbatten's assassination, so when he got in the car and turned the key in the ignition I expected it to be a car bomb, for which the IRA was notorious. But then with the underwater shot of the lobster being thrown back in, I realized what was coming.

Phillip is so needy that he can't even share his grief with his son for a person they both loved. What a miserable existence.

I was pleasantly surprised by Gillian Anderson as Thatcher. I was skeptical of her as a nepotism hire and wasn't sure she'd be able to pull off such a difficult role. 

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Glad to know Philip is still an asshole. Being jealous of his own son because Dickie turned his attentions to Charles. If that's true that's a crappy thing for Dickie to do which I wouldn't put it passed him. Of course if Philip did his job being a father to his son instead of a jerk then maybe it wouldn't have happened. Of course his remarks about a woman PM and Elizabeth's remark of two women in power. 

I wish they hadn't skipped over Anne's wedding or attempted kidnapping. Those would have made for good episodes then the boring season 3 we got. Not doing that made Anne's and Philip's conversation about Mark confusing. Also going into the Troubles at least a little bit it would have helped give background to the IRA assassinating Dickie. 

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Honestly, there is a lot they could have addressed regarding Anne last season which would have made this season less confusing. I guess part of the problem is that they assume that people know more about Anne than they actually do. It's a good thing that the next seasons are already planned out, since it means that there is a chance that they can correct problems like this in the script early on.

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11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I also totally don't think that Diana just "accidently" met Charles in her cute fairy costume, she was totally looking to meet him and get her charming on. 

IRL, she did contrive to meet him. He came to the Spencer estate for a shooting party, and Diana, who had been ordered to stay away, lurked on the grounds (not wearing a costume!) and struck up a conversation. Charles was charmed. And the "sorry about your uncle" convo also happened, at a polo match. Charles was won over, or at least a good way there. 

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Well, the show suggests that it wasn't really accidental, too. Diana certainly wanted the attention of Charles. But I guess she married the guy in her head, not the real Charles. Diana certainly wasn't completely faultless regarding the situation, but she was the younger one, which is why Charles usually gets most of the blame, since he is the one who should have known better.

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Remember, this is how the show portrays it. How it was in real life is difficult to say. And like I said, he deserves the lion share of the blame. But I am not a fan of removing all responsibility from Diana completely. She is just another example of someone who wants to become something without ever considering what it actually means to BE that.

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The first scene between Diana and Charles reminds of the first two scenes between Anne and Henry in The Tudors: both Diana and Anne have role clothes and wear masks and later in Henry's dream Anne partly hides, partly make herself seen like Diana does in the first scene. But settings of the same kind also make the differences clear: Henry is wholly captivated by Anne's sensuality which she has has cleverly learned to use, but Charles is only mildly interested and amused by Diana's - well, what is was? A schoolgirl's naivete?

I have seen The Midsummer Night's Dream but can't remember what kind of role Diana as a tree had in the play. It must be something symbolic in the show. Or was it meant only as a general symbol about "love is blind" and "mismatched lovers".     

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5 hours ago, swanpride said:

Well, the show suggests that it wasn't really accidental, too. Diana certainly wanted the attention of Charles. But I guess she married the guy in her head, not the real Charles. Diana certainly wasn't completely faultless regarding the situation, but she was the younger one, which is why Charles usually gets most of the blame, since he is the one who should have known better.

I think teenage girls (and boys, perhaps) have often contrived to meet someone they're crushing on. So I don't see it as anything nefarious or manipulative - just teenage.

4 hours ago, swanpride said:

Remember, this is how the show portrays it. How it was in real life is difficult to say. And like I said, he deserves the lion share of the blame. But I am not a fan of removing all responsibility from Diana completely. She is just another example of someone who wants to become something without ever considering what it actually means to BE that.

Again, she's 18 - who at 18 considers their dream come true that thoroughly? Mind you, I'm not a particular Diana fan, but she was so very young it's hard for me to blame her for that.

Edited by Clanstarling
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12 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Phillip is so needy that he can't even share his grief with his son for a person they both loved.

I found myself expecting Philip and Charles to embrace in a moment of genuine, shared grief.  Silly me.

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11 hours ago, Lorna Mae said:

He came to the Spencer estate for a shooting party, and Diana, who had been ordered to stay away, lurked on the grounds (not wearing a costume!) and struck up a conversation.

Though I was happy The Crown is back, I wasn't as happy with the episode as others here seem to be. For one, without even knowing how Charles and Diana met, I doubted immediately that it was how it was shown. Just too cute. Diana acted more like a 13 year old.

Also was bothered by Charles getting Dickie's letter on the plane home from Iceland. Do did a postal plane fly by and drop that off at his plane?

I knew that Dickie was killed by the IRA, but my husband did not. Yet, that montage was soooo foreshadowing, that he said "someone's about to be killed, right?"

Overall, I thought they crammed too much into one episode: Dickie's death, Anne's horseback riding, Charles dating Sara then Diana, and Margaret Thatcher. I'm hoping that maybe the show will revisit Anne's story with flashbacks to her marriage. The other three stories could easily have each been a brilliant full hour, but not now. Since they must do more Diana and Thatcher, they could have left them out of this one. (Dickie's letter to Charles about finding a nice, simple girl could have segued into an episode 2 covering Charles and the Spencer women [even though Dickie wrote the letter 4 years earlier].)

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If you read the London-based newspapers, their critiques of this series are not favorable as there are a lot of falsehoods. Diana did not dress as a nymph when she saw Charles at the estate.  According to her sister, Diana never dressed like that and was wearing a skirt and blouse.  She never stepped in front of his car.  And, there is absolutely no evidence that Charles had the conversation with Lord Mountbatten where he was told of the disappointment in his dalliance with Camilla and Charles would never call him a traitor.  There are a lot of things in this show that cannot be wholly believed and are set up to increase the drama.

And you may greatly disagree, but I don’t like Ms Coleman in this part.  She looks, nor acts, like the Queen in any way.  At least Helen Mirren looked, and spoke, like the Queen.   

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21 hours ago, Linda956 said:

Good Lord, these people!  If even half of the way the royal family is being portrayed is realistic (and I tend to believe it is), they are repulsive. What a bunch of self-entitled snobs and clueless jackasses.  And Margaret Thatcher - It's just 24-7 work work work with her.  No wonder her husband was always portrayed as a jerk.  What did he even see in her?  She's seems completely unable to relax and enjoy herself ever.  It's truly sad.  I found myself yelling at the TV screen, "Get out, Diana, before it's too late!"  No amount of money, jewels, clothes, etc. could ever induce me to put up with all the crap she had to put up with and deal with these horrible people on a daily basis.  Screw em!  I will say the actress portraying Diana is doing a marvelous job.  She really captures her well and the re-creation of the clothes are fun to watch.

I disagree with the statement in bold - I found Denis Thatcher to be delightful in his own way.  He's your clueless nerdy dad who recognizes that mom is the dominant personality in the family and just goes with it, so as a result, he and his wife have a better relationship than, say, young Phillip and Elizabeth.  Though it's interesting that somehow this season, Phillip has grown up, gotten over his power issues, and learned to appreciate the Queen better.  

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On 11/15/2020 at 11:15 AM, Daisy said:


I think Gillian is nailing it. Here is Thatcher 
 

 

i know what you mean in regards to Diana. I mean. for me. I wasn't even born yet, but you still... know the story. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I

 

Thank you for posting this. This helps me to see GA is absolutely killing the PM.

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16 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

I disagree with the statement in bold - I found Denis Thatcher to be delightful in his own way.  He's your clueless nerdy dad who recognizes that mom is the dominant personality in the family and just goes with it, so as a result, he and his wife have a better relationship than, say, young Phillip and Elizabeth.  Though it's interesting that somehow this season, Phillip has grown up, gotten over his power issues, and learned to appreciate the Queen better.  

I agree with you here on the Thatchers.  I am finding the Thatchers' marriage a high point of the show.  He's clearly not cowed by her and she obviously adores him.  

I knew what was going to happen to Uncle Dickie (Mr. Wordsworth was not and his eyes widened when the explosion happened, though he has seen enough shows to know that the montage indicated something was afoot).  The juxtaposition of his death and his letter arriving while Charles is grieving certainly gives the viewer an impression of Charles as an unhappy man manipulated into settling for someone he doesn't really want.  Furthermore, the theme of the Abdication being a watershed event for the Windsors is continued as, once again, the heir to the throne cannot marry the woman he loves,     Edward VIII cast a long shadow even after his death.

 

 

 

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saoirse

Stick to discussion of the episode, please. Discussion or mention of future events is NOT ALLOWED in episode topics, including mention of individuals who have not yet appeared or events that occur in future decades. Posts will be removed; repeated violations may incur further sanctions.

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