S04.E07: The Hereditary Principle

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Grappling with mental health issues, Margaret seeks help and discovers an appalling secret about estranged relatives of the royal family.

Dropping on Sunday, November 15, 2020.

[AZChristian]

Honestly, this has been my favorite episode of the entire four seasons of the show.

At first, I just was tickled that when "Bellatrix LeStrange" needed medical/mental care, she went to "Madame Pomfrey."  (Sorry, I'm just a huge Harry Potter fan.)

But then the episode presented us with facts that I doubt many of us were aware of before.  It was stunning (not in a visual way).

[toodywoody]

If it is true that Charles and Margaret went to see a professional then good. Margaret needed it for years, Charles did too. I could see that it would be frowned on and was in the earlier years. And it does run in families, that would explain a bit why Margaret was the way she was. They both should have been in therapy all along it would have helped with a lot of what happened.

[MrsR]

Nightmare.

 

Did not see that episode coming. and I like to think that I know a lot about the royal family.

 

So disturbing.

[estellasmum]

22 hours ago, AZChristian said:

Honestly, this has been my favorite episode of the entire four seasons of the show.

Mine too. And Vergangenheit was one of my favorite episodes of any TV show, ever. Judging by the lack of response on this one, we might be a pretty small minority, though.

I'm not a real Margaret fan at all, but Helena Bonham Carter is just killing in the role for me, and somehow fictional Margaret is one of my favorite characters, if not my favorite of seasons 3 and 4. 

[Umbelina]

I will definitely watch this one again.  I couldn't stop watching the whole year at once, and do know that by this episode, I was "resting my eyes" a bit too often.  I was confused about the asylum parts right until the end, but I think I will enjoy it much more the 2nd time, while fully awake!

[Ellaria]

Wow! I love HBC and I am glad that this story was revealed thru her eyes. We are getting an "enlightened" Margaret this season. 

A difficult episode! Like "Vergangenheit," it needed to be told. Loved Margaret's response that not everything can be blamed on the abdication. Here is a link to an article about it in Vanity Fair:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/11/queen-elizabeth-secret-cousins-true-story-the-crown

I enjoyed seeing the Castle of Mey again. I fell in love with that castle when we were first introduced to it in S1.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[Brn2bwild]

1 hour ago, estellasmum said:

Mine too. And Vergangenheit was one of my favorite episodes of any TV show, ever. Judging by the lack of response on this one, we might be a pretty small minority, though.

I'm not a real Margaret fan at all, but Helena Bonham Carter is just killing in the role for me, and somehow fictional Margaret is one of my favorite characters, if not my favorite of seasons 3 and 4. 

People said Margaret's role (and Anne's too) was more minor this season, but I felt like it resonated more.  Besides finding greater insights about herself (tempered with sadness) in this episode, Margaret acted as a Greek chorus with regard to Charles and Diana. 

[dubbel zout]

I knew about the sisters but not the extended family.

I don't really blame Elizabeth for not giving Margaret stuff to do, as it always seems as if she starts out enthusiastic, but inevitably someone doesn't show Margaret the proper deference and she torpedos the whole thing. Or she loses interest in it because it's not what she expected. I think she genuinely wants to work, but she just can't follow through all the way. 

I also think it's got to be hard to see your importance in the family hierarchy get lower and lower because of some kids, but that's how royalty works. That said, I did feel for her in the scene where she's told she's out of the Privy Council, or whatever it was, because that twerp Edward was now 21 and outranks her. 

I really love the relationship between Elizabeth and Margaret. 

[JudyObscure]

I was so hoping Margaret, who wanted some worth while work to do, would start visiting her cousins regularly.  They would have been so thrilled to have her come to their birthday parties "in person" and not just through photos and TV.

[Spartan Girl]

I keep finding out things I never knew on this show.

I wish HBC could have one more go as Margaret next season. She’s awesome. But I know, I know, everyone has to be older...

[WatchrTina]

I'm really shocked by this episode.  And I'm glad Margaret is shocked.  And I'm deeply troubled that the five cousins who were all put away as "imbeciles" (and recorded as dead in Burke's Peerage) were female.  I assume this really was a case of a cruel genetic disorder that devastated a family but I'm always leery when things like this only affect the female members of a family.  Now I'm off to Wikipedia to learn more.

UPDATE: Here's the link to Wikipedia.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerissa_and_Katherine_Bowes-Lyon

It suggests that the genetic disease afflicting the girls may have been fatal in boys.  It it also makes clear that the disease appears to have come from Nerissa & Katherine's mother and not from their father, John Herbert Bowes-Lyon (the Queen Mother's brother.) There are three more cousins with the disease on the mother's side of the family.  So there is no link to the Bowes-Lyon bloodline.  I know they made that clear in the episode (or tried to) but I didn't entirely get it.

Apparently all this came out in England years ago but still -- I'll bet the royal family just HATES it all being dragged out into the public eye again via this show.

Edited November 17, 2020 by WatchrTina

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, WatchrTina said:

I'm really shocked by this episode.  And I'm glad Margaret is shocked.  And I'm deeply troubled that the five cousins who were all put away as "imbeciles" were female.  I assume this really was a case of a cruel genetic disorder that devastated a family but I'm always leery when things like this only affect the female members of a family.  Now I'm off to Wikipedia to learn more.

Remember Freud and Philip's mother?  Yes, women were repeatedly put away for all kinds of things.  

[LilWharveyGal]

Does QE2 really know (and use!) the phrase, "friend of Dorothy?!" Inquiring minds want to know.

[Umbelina]

Just now, LilWharveyGal said:

Does QE2 really know (and use!) the phrase, "friend of Dorothy?!" Inquiring minds want to know.

I'd bet is was something more blunt, and then made more palatable by the writers, but yes, it would be interesting to know, especially way back then.

[MMEButterfly]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I will definitely watch this one again.  I couldn't stop watching the whole year at once, and do know that by this episode, I was "resting my eyes" a bit too often.  I was confused about the asylum parts right until the end, but I think I will enjoy it much more the 2nd time, while fully awake!

Yes, I need to watch it again. Because I was confused about the asylum, I didn't focus as much as I want to. 

[Umbelina]

Just watched it again.  

Loved the acting, especially HBC, but I'm still not quite sure about the editing.  I would have liked to know sooner why we were in a Mental hospital I think.  It would have had more impact on me to realize the connection while watching those scenes.  It takes knowing who they are, and watching again to get the full impact of the story.  It seems more important to me than the "shock reveal" to Margaret, which did, work well.

Of course I could be full of shit here too.

I do think this sent people to google for more articles about these women.  I know I've read more, including about the reveal by the press so long ago.  "The Queen sent a check" for candy and things. No visits from any family, and a pauper's grave with a plastic headstone.

Actually, the most upset people seemed to be the lineage book publishers, at being lied to and having printed those lies.

I mean, couldn't someone in the Royal family at least have provided decent graves and headstones?

What a sad story. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Umbelina

[Capricasix]

I’m not shocked by this episode, because it wasn’t so long ago that parents of developmentally disabled children were advised to put their kids in institutions and basically forget their existence. 

[swanpride]

To be fair...I am not sure if I would visit if I suddenly learned something like this. If I had the money I would make sure that they are well-cared for, but, well, family isn't just about blood ties, it is mostly about actually knowing each other, about growing up together. That the queen mother never bothered, that is disturbing, but that those who suddenly had new relatives they had no emotional connection to whatsoever never did, that is kind of understandable. If it is true that most of the royals didn't know themselves, at the point they learned about it the care personal had most likely more of a connection to the two than they had, to no fault of their own.

[Helena Dax]

Wow, I didn't know this story. Putting the sisters away is bad enough, (though pretty normal at the time) but pretending they're dead?? I'm shocked. 

I wonder if the British Royal Family have really gone softer since then. It certainly looks like it, but who knows what happens behind closed doors.  

Loved Margaret calling that guy "Lurch" lol

Edited November 17, 2020 by Helena Dax

[txhorns79]

11 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Does QE2 really know (and use!) the phrase, "friend of Dorothy?!" Inquiring minds want to know.

I feel like she's someone who would just say "homosexual."  I don't see her being coy or cutesy about it.    

[WatchrTina]

11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I would have liked to know sooner why we were in a Mental hospital I think.  It would have had more impact on me to realize the connection while watching those scenes.

I think you have point and I will be interested to see how I feel when I watch the episode a second time.  But that raises an interesting point.  I wonder if writers have now adjusted to the fact that we can binge-watch and re-watch these TV shows?  I wonder if it affects their writing, knowing that they can be more subtle (or more deliberately oblique) and can leave certain questions unanswered until the very end, secure in the knowledge that viewers will re-watch the episode?

I recently binge-re-watched an entire TV series that had a huge central secret that is not revealed until the very end of the first season (I won't say which one because, spoilers).  I can still recall how blown away I was the first time through when that secret was revealed.  On the second time through I kept looking for hints and, sure enough, they WERE there. Some were even things I had complained about on the first viewing because they struck me as inconsistencies in the plot.  

So I'm looking forward to watching this episode a second time, now that I know WHY we are shown scenes of that group home. I expect the experience of watching it a second time will feel completely different.

[tennisgurl]

This was probably my favorite episode of the season, it was so quiet and tragic. I don't always like Margaret as a person, but I do really find her fascinating, and this was a really good episode for her. She was so upset to find out that she had these relatives that had been shuttered away and forgotten, going so far as to fake their deaths, and so furious with her mother, and afraid that she could end up becoming mentally ill for forgotten by her family as well. I had never heard about this (this show in general is great about bringing these little known but fascinating stories about the royals to life) and its all just so sad and shameful. I know that it was common in the 40s send children with severe disabilities away to institutions never to be spoken of again, but faking their own deaths? Still keeping them there in secret for so long? That just seems so cruel and tragic. They couldn't even afford to send them to a cheerier place than the sad dour rather run down institution they were at? The whole story is so shocking, its amazing that, while this story is out in the open now, its still not something widely known and it was kept a secret, even from the other royals, for so long. 

On the one hand, I can understand why Elizabeth doesn't want to give Margaret a whole lot to do, considering Margaret often has the attention span of a fruit fly and generally spends a whole lot of her time complaining about what she can and cant do. On the other, Margaret has so much energy and personality, its understandable that she still feels listless after all these years and wants so badly to get to do something. It sucks that she is losing her position for Edward, even if she knows that this is how it works. She is in such a strange place in the family, daughter of a king and sister of a queen, but way far down the line of succession, so she has nothing to really be preparing for, and tons of rules to follow but not a lot of official duties. She did show a lot of maturity and character in this episode though, and I do always like her relationship with Elizabeth,. Its really complicated, but there is also obviously love and affection there. 

They cant blame everything on the abdication!

Good on Charles for talking to a therapist and talking to Margaret about it, that shows some actual maturity that he has been really lacking for most of the season. If the whole royal family took that advice, they would probably be a lot happier. 

[Capricasix]

I liked the part when Margaret and Elizabeth were having lunch and M rang E’s bell, and she said, “What are you doing?! That’s my button!” 😄

Edited November 17, 2020 by Capricasix

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

So I'm looking forward to watching this episode a second time, now that I know WHY we are shown scenes of that group home. I expect the experience of watching it a second time will feel completely different.

Thanks for calling it a group home, some have referred to it as an "insane asylum" and I didn't see  that at all.  In fact the nurses seemed particularly kind and everyone seemed happy together as though they had created a family of their own.  I don't fault the parents for placing them there, it may have been safer and happier for them than being at "home" in one of those huge castles.*  I only called out Margaret for not visiting because she was the one who was screaming outrage at the rest of the family for putting the girls aside.  Margaret has the time, money and interest so why not she to build them a nicer home?

*Or all alone down a distant corridor like Philip's mother.

Edited November 17, 2020 by JudyObscure

[Ohiopirate02]

 I was laughing at Philip during Edwards birthday party.  Royals,  they're just like us, having one drink too many and spilling the beans about how their kids were conceived.  

[Jeeves]

6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Thanks for calling it a group home, some have referred to it as an "insane asylum" and I didn't see  that at all.  In fact the nurses seemed particularly kind and everyone seemed happy together as though they had created a family of their own.  I don't fault the parents for placing them there, it may have been safer and happier for them than being at "home" in one of those huge castles.

I thought that too. I think someone suggested the family should have housed the sisters in a cottage on an estate, but I think that would likely have been a very isolated existence with very little interaction with others, just the two of them and probably one or two carers. At least in that home/institution they had many other people around, and as you said seemed to be treated kindly. 

[Umbelina]

8 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I thought that too. I think someone suggested the family should have housed the sisters in a cottage on an estate, but I think that would likely have been a very isolated existence with very little interaction with others, just the two of them and probably one or two carers. At least in that home/institution they had many other people around, and as you said seemed to be treated kindly. 

I think there were five or six of them, and then they would have nurses, servants, perhaps even teachers.  

That place just looked dreadfully grim.

[Jeeves]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

I think there were five or six of them, and then they would have nurses, servants, perhaps even teachers.  

That place just looked dreadfully grim.

Well, five or six would have made for more interaction if they were all together.

[secnarf]

Well, this was the first Margaret-centric episode that didn't make me hate her.

I did know about this before watching the episode (there was a news article a few days back and I just reached the episode today), so I wasn't surprised at the reveal to Margaret.

I did feel that the episode just ended though, without any resolution really. It was a bit jarring, though I did quite enjoy the episode overall.

[rozen]

I guess I'm the odd one out, this episode only made me disdain Margaret more. Her outrage was 100% driven by her own narcissistic worries about her diminishing standing in the family and awareness of her own mortality. She didn't do anything for them, didn't even go in to meet them, just threw a tantrum at her mother before returning to boozing her life away. I laughed at her demanding more work and thought Elizabeth should have handed Margaret some nonglamorous jobs with commoners and watch her balk. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by rozen

[Peace 47]

I think it’s interesting to read all the positive reactions to this episode.  It’s not that I disagree with anything that many have said about the good parts of the episode, but I also take @secnarf’s point about the episode just ending.  And some of the story beats hit oddly with me.

That is, while it I agree that a show like this shining a light on a little known dark chapter like this does have value, I found myself wondering why they were wedging this particular story into Margaret’s depression storyline because it didn’t feel organic.  The therapist nudging Margaret in the direction of looking into the situation of the institutionalized relatives was weird because it plunged Margaret into this spiral of worry that she was also genetically destined to “go mad,” when at the next session, the therapist was like, “Lol, psych!  They have a genetic condition that has absolutely nothing to do with your depression!  And even though I’m the one who brought them up to you randomly when I was pushing and pushing you about other mentally ill relatives, I then did further research while I made you worry needlessly for a week, and it turns out their problems are not yours!”  That interaction seemed very false to me.

And Margaret finds out about them, but doesn’t ever go see them or do anything about them or find a purpose in dedicating her stretches of unoccupied time to mental health charities (unless I didn’t see something on the text that flashed at the end of the episode).  It was like the opposite of the S3 Philip/ astronaut episode where he loses his faith and then at the end of that story at least dedicates some ongoing effort to that priest group:  that was a story that had conflict and resolution.  The story of Margaret’s depression and lack of meaning didn’t go anywhere.  And it’s not that I quibble with that as an historic fact that Margaret was who she was and couldn’t really change, but then why do we have an entire episode about it?

And Dazzle (was that his name?) saying that she should abandon the royal family and her title to convert to Catholicism because that gave his own life meaning was so weird to me because it’s not like Margaret had been exploring and compelled by the Catholic faith.  Such a random suggestion.  They used it as an opportunity to say that Margaret was very attached to her title and snobbishness and would never let that go even as her status dwindled, but why would Dazzle suggest abandoning the royal family?  It was the non-Royal brother of the Queen Mum who shut his kids away.  Maybe that was at the behest of the Royal Family, but it’s not like Elizabeth and the other family members who made up Margaret’s social circle knew about this and bore blame for it.

That said, I adore Helena Bonham Carter.  A few years ago, I would see post/ articles/ whatever around the Internet about how people just loved HBC, and I didn’t relate just because I hadn’t seen much, if any, of her work.  But in the past couple years, I’ve seen her in a few things, and she is just so good, so charismatic onscreen, just so compelling to watch.  When she tells the therapist that she hasn’t been able to shake off the particular low she has been going through, I welled up at how poignant that delivery was.

 

 

[swanpride]

I thought the episode was boring. I mean, the plus is that it was actually about some history I didn't know about, so kudos to that. But for one, I was already over Magaret's constant self-pity last season, and two, the whole episodes just played out very uneven.  

[Jeeves]

10 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I think there were five or six of them, and then they would have nurses, servants, perhaps even teachers.  

That place just looked dreadfully grim.

The episode closed with photos of the two Bowes-Lyon sisters. The hereditary severe developmental syndrome they had, was through their mother, who married a Bowes-Lyon (brother to the Queen Mum, uncle to Margaret). I think then, that the other three who had that syndrome had to be relatives of the mother, and not related even by marriage to the Bowes-Lyon family or the Windsors. I don't know how much money that family, or the Bowes-Lyon family, had. Could they have essentially set up their own group home to care for all five of them for decades? 

Yes, the place looked grim. But it seemed the residents were cared for with kindness. 

And, in this episode I thought the Queen Mum was so full of sh*t. Yay for Margaret for calling her out on blaming the Abdication for everything. 

Also, WTF was that assortment of stuff on the QM's head when they were walking on the beach? Looked like she'd sprouted a small beach hut from her shoulders up. I goggled and then giggled at it.

[Ellaria]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

Also, WTF was that assortment of stuff on the QM's head when they were walking on the beach? Looked like she'd sprouted a small beach hut from her shoulders up. I goggled and then giggled at it.

Yes! I had a hard time concentrating on their conversation because I was so busy trying to figure out what was on her head. As best as I can tell, it was a hood, rain hat and wool scarf. I can't find an image of it. 

[AZChristian]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:49 AM, JudyObscure said:

Thanks for calling it a group home, some have referred to it as an "insane asylum" and I didn't see  that at all.  In fact the nurses seemed particularly kind and everyone seemed happy together as though they had created a family of their own.  I don't fault the parents for placing them there, it may have been safer and happier for them than being at "home" in one of those huge castles.

According to Wikipedia:

"The Royal Earlswood Hospital, formerly The Asylum for Idiots and The Royal Earlswood Institution for Mental Defectives, in Redhill, Surrey, was the first establishment to cater specifically for people with developmental disabilities. Previously they had been housed either in asylums for the mentally ill or in workhouses."  It was closed in 1997 when the the British policy of Care in the Community was established to deinstitutionalize those who were in need of care, based on controversies about institutions like Royal Earlswood. 

A "group home" is defined as a home where a small number of unrelated people in need of care, support, or supervision can live together, such as those who are elderly or mentally ill. 

The two women featured in this episode were blood relations to the British Royal Family.  Their other three cousins with the same genetic disability are not related to the BRF.  But given the $88,000,000,000 combined worth of the BRF, it seems like it would have been financially possible to have set the five cousins up in a cottage with caretakers (a group home).  Instead, they ignored their existence, kept them secret, and didn't even provide a headstone when they died.  Here's the marker at the pauper's grave for Nerissa Bowes-Lyon, first cousin to the Queen of England.

I was just doing some more reading on what it's like to be related to the BRF.  Just reading Wikipedia, there are references to a number of first cousins of QEII who lived in lavish apartments at Kensington Palace.  Which makes it even more horrendous that the Bowes-Lyon sisters lived and died the way they did.

Edited November 18, 2020 by AZChristian
Additional info.

[benteen]

This was a sad episode, one I don't see myself watching again.  I appreciate this show's ability to shed light on little known subjects.

So 7 episodes in, this is the episode they decide to give Helena Bonham Carter?  I just find myself frustrated with how little they use her and how many of the Margaret episodes are so repetitive.  Margaret wants more to do, only for her power to be taken away from her by the Queen, who feels sorry for her but can't do anything for her.  

I thought they missed an opportunity to introduce Margaret's children into this episode.  They are hardly discussed at all and it would have been an interesting and fun change of pace to see her interacting with them.  I would have preferred it to the same repetitive storyline they've been hitting with Margaret for the past four seasons.

Edited November 18, 2020 by benteen

[tennisgurl]

4 hours ago, benteen said:

I would have preferred it to the same repetitive storyline they've been hitting with Margaret for the past four seasons.

As much as I love this show, they do have a tendency to assign the main characters one or two major traits and stories, and that's most of what they get for the show, maybe changing it up a little based on what is happening. Its understandable, considering they have to fit so much into a ten episode season that usually covers a decade or so and they have several characters to balance, but its still rather noticeable. Elizabeth is stoic a struggles with balancing being a monarch and a person, Philip is snippy and trying to deal with his place in the palace, Charles is sad and uncomfortable in his own skin (until this season where he gets the worlds most miserable love triangle) and Margaret is the party girl who both wants a purpose in life but cant imagine living outside the royal bubble. You could basically have Margaret's story here at any point in the show and it would hardly need to be changed. 

[bijoux]

This episode actually made me think of the ones prominently featuring Diana. The shots we had of her here made her appear happy and at ease. She very well might have been feeling more comfortable here, but I also think it primarily reflected Margaret's perception of her. So what I came to was this - was Diana really that isolated as shown when she moved to the palace or was that also reflective of how she perceived her situation? And this in turn makes me wonder how skewed the perception could be in other episodes as well. 

[AZChristian]

16 hours ago, bijoux said:

So what I came to was this - was Diana really that isolated as shown when she moved to the palace or was that also reflective of how she perceived her situation? 

Interesting question.  One of the things I remember from many of the previous episodes was the sheer number of staff members that were ALWAYS in the background of EVERY scene.  When Elizabeth and Philip were watching TV while eating breakfast, they didn't even have to reach over to change the volume.  There were a couple of guys in uniforms standing there to do it for them.

It was more likely that the royals would have to send everyone OUT of a room if they wanted to have a private conversation.  They rarely ever seemed to be alone.  I realize that having staff around doesn't count for isolation as much as having other family members, but someone as shy as Diana might be happy to befriend a chambermaid.  And everyone else seemed to have someone assigned (a private secretary or aide) to address their every whim.  Where was Diana's "someone"?

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, AZChristian said:

 And everyone else seemed to have someone assigned (a private secretary or aide) to address their every whim.  Where was Diana's "someone"?

Now that you bring it up, she did mention some staff. A person taking care of her wardrobe and... personal maid? We have seen a maid bringing her letters. So I guess it was more her expectation of finding a new family in the palace and them being nope, not so much. 

[Cheezwiz]

On 11/18/2020 at 7:28 AM, benteen said:

I thought they missed an opportunity to introduce Margaret's children into this episode.  They are hardly discussed at all and it would have been an interesting and fun change of pace to see her interacting with them.  I would have preferred it to the same repetitive storyline they've been hitting with Margaret for the past four seasons.

I agree - I've been thinking it's weird that they've never shown Margaret's children - the show always makes it look like she's completely alone in the world, when she had two offspring who were young adults at this point. A bit of insight into how she interacted with them would have been interesting. Margaret was an awful person and her marriage to Athony Armstrong-Jones was toxic, but their kids miraculously turned out very well - low key lives and never in the press, other than weddings. I'm very curious to know how that happened - I guess Margot and Anthony must've done something right.

[iluvobx]

On 11/16/2020 at 4:20 PM, Umbelina said:

I will definitely watch this one again.  I couldn't stop watching the whole year at once, and do know that by this episode, I was "resting my eyes" a bit too often.  I was confused about the asylum parts right until the end, but I think I will enjoy it much more the 2nd time, while fully awake!

I couldn't figure out why it started in the asylum and on those 2 women.  I was puzzled until the Dr. said I know about the twins.  The light bulb went off.  I was shocked.  Just unreal how they were treated but that was the way back then but to basically deny their existence and lie about it.  Only to try to safe face?  My opinion of the Queen Mum has really changed.

This has been my favorite episode of this season.

On 11/17/2020 at 9:03 PM, rozen said:

I guess I'm the odd one out, this episode only made me disdain Margaret more. Her outrage was 100% driven by her own narcissistic worries about her diminishing standing in the family and awareness of her own mortality. She didn't do anything for them, didn't even go in to meet them, just threw a tantrum at her mother before returning to boozing her life away. I laughed at her demanding more work and thought Elizabeth should have handed Margaret some nonglamorous jobs with commoners and watch her balk. 

I am sure that Margaret did spend time with all of them, she came back with a lot of knowledge of who each one was.  The episode showed her with them (or did I imagine that.)

[Black Knight]

8 hours ago, iluvobx said:

I am sure that Margaret did spend time with all of them, she came back with a lot of knowledge of who each one was.  The episode showed her with them (or did I imagine that.)

No, we were only shown Dazzle interacting with them, while Margaret stayed out in the car. And the only information I remember her giving the Queen Mum was their names, which easily could have just come from her conversation with Dazzle after he got back in the car and told her that they were alive.

[Arynm]

I actually have heard this story, but in my head I had the RF helping these women in some way. Wishful thinking I guess, but I thought they were moved to a better place or something. I usually like Margaret, mostly because I like HBC but she did a great job this episode. I wish she had done something for those girls.

[SeanC]

On 11/17/2020 at 11:29 PM, Peace 47 said:

It was the non-Royal brother of the Queen Mum who shut his kids away.

Jock Bowes-Lyon was actually dead at that point; the decision was made (as far as we know) by his widow Fenella, who died in 1966.  Fenella visited them up until her death, but otherwise gradually put out that they were dead.

There isn't any particular reason to think the Palace was involved in any of this, in the real world.  A lot of the time people today have a tendency to try to assess the past in terms of singular or conspiratorial motivations when it was a general societal practice; see also, from around this same time period, the way that Joe and Rose Kennedy vanished their mentally-disabled daughter Roesmary from public view with similar obfuscation about her whereabouts for a few decades (though that case has the additional icky factor of Rosemary's disability being the result of her parents trying to "cure" her with a lobotomy).  If you could afford it, shuffling such relations out of sight and out of mind was the done thing.

[BitterApple]

I think what I find distasteful is that the girls were shuffled off to a dismal institution, despite the family having boatloads of money to provide better care. Even George V and Mary of Teck did better by their disabled son, and neither was a stellar parent. 

 

[dubbel zout]

I loved Dazzle's entrance, snaking in to David Bowie's "Let's Dance." It looked as if the actors were having a blast with it, too.

(And again I wonder what the music budget is. Bowie likely doesn't come cheap.)

[foxfreakinmulder]

On 11/20/2020 at 8:08 AM, iluvobx said:

I couldn't figure out why it started in the asylum and on those 2 women. 

I was thinking something was going to happen there like last season with the children and the school that was covered by that mountain. But then when they were crying while watching the tv about Margaret having surgery I thought we would find out they were related somehow.

It's sad but back in the day asylums were used as dumping grounds, husbands could commit wives they were tired of or unruly children or r******* children. It's really sad. 

I really enjoyed the first 2 seasons of this show because it showed us how Elizabeth had to deal with being queen and I wish they would've stretched that out more because I found that more interesting then watching events from the 80's. Plus, I liked the royal family more then, now I can't stomach them and their rudeness the only one I have any sympathy for is Diana. I would like to see more of the children/grandchildren, every time I see Anne I wonder is she married and does she have any kids because you never see them. I just wish they wouldn't have rushed this story like they have threw the decades. I don't know how many more seasons this show has but for me I wish they would've taken their time and maybe ended the show with Charles and Diana's marriage. 

I didn't understand why the queen couldn't find one job for Margaret.

I did laugh when Margaret rang the bell and Elizabeth said "hey, that's my button" or something like that.

Who were those people that Margaret went to visit with the pool? They looked familiar but I don't remember.

[bijoux]

9 minutes ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

Who were those people that Margaret went to visit with the pool? They looked familiar but I don't remember.

She met Roddy, her young lover, at their house party last season. And I think they were later shown taking care of her Mustique property.